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Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 08:37:12 AM

Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 08:37:12 AM
Fun little teaser trailer :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwR_pPKMbi0

ok now onto the format :-D

I have had 3 possible ideas worked out for CC3 all fully planned out and tested to work, im going to give you guys the choice since many of you didn't like the "second chance after 1 fight" format from CC2

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Idea 1

qualifying in the head to head arena https://gametechmods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593&page=4 (scroll down a bit on that page)

the "winners" go into 1 bracket and the "losers" go into another

the faster you "win" the better your qualifying position
the faster you "loose" the worse your qualifying position

the brackets will be 2 of the 24 X Brackets from CC2 so that means 48 places for Clash Cubes 3, I think that it could be achieved with 30 people wanting in for CC2

matches would be a best 2 out of 3 to be fair on the robots

this format COULD have a fully supported Losers bracket but this would make it even more time consuming so you could expect a long tournament

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Idea 2

having the tournament ran a bit like robot wars

robots are divided up into 6 heats of 6 robots

round 1 is a 3 way rumble with 1 robot dropping out

round 2 is a 1 on 1 match with 1 robot dropping out

heat final is a 1 on 1 match with 1 robot dropping out

the 6 robots move on to the series semi's

then robots will fight it out in 1 on 1 giving 3 winners and 3 losers

the 3 losers will then be put in a 3 way rumble and the winner rejoins the winners

then 1 on 1 to decide the finals

then 1 on 1 for the finals

this would be 1 match only no best out of 3 its do or die so no losers bracket (except for the 1 match in the series semi)

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Idea 3

the tournament is split into "events" or "heats" of only a small number of places, robots qualify for each event in the attempt to make it in to the bracket for that event.

there will be 3 events to start off with each with a traditional 16 robot bracket, the fastest 16 qualifying robots get to compete in the event, others miss out

points are awarded, 10 for making it into the bracket then 10 for each round win

everyone is put into a points ladder and after 3 events the number of robots in contention is cut to only the top 10 on the ladder

the other robots not in contention however, still compete and can upset those fighting for the tittle

after 2 events the ladder cuts again to only the top four robots in contention

after 1 more event the winner is the robot with the highest points total


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so

idea 1 holds 48, idea 2 holds 36, idea 3 will hold any number above 16

please make you decision in the poll provided :-D, this thread is a replacement for the other as per Madiaba's suggestion :-D
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: russian roulette on November 25, 2009, 09:20:14 AM
#1 is the simplest in terms of the tournament itself
#2 is so traditional, doesn't have that cc twist
#3 ? still confused. Not as inviting compared to the other ones. Very vague description. Sounds really annoying to host, too.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
I actually picked number 3 :P I will see if I cant improve the description

Edit: done
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Naryar on November 25, 2009, 09:22:08 AM
I voted 3, but i'll be fine for any setup that does not have rumbles and more than 4/5 wins for having a winner.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: somestrangeguy on November 25, 2009, 09:24:27 AM
I was just kinda WTF when I saw this under the poll:
Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

Then I realized that I had again auto logged out.

Anyways I say #1. CC was unique thanks to its X bracket, It should not be taken out.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: trumpetguy on November 25, 2009, 11:18:26 AM
1. Normal tournament, as I said earlier forgiving.
2. More rumbles=more fun.
3. More like a league, but with elimination.

....3
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Viper89 on November 25, 2009, 12:28:52 PM
Idea 1. Couple questions: Do you have some sort of idea yet when you might get this going( I know it's early;)).  Page 12 in my DSl showcase would The Devil's Vortex be legal for this tournment? if so I will stick around for this tournment :evil:.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Somebody on November 25, 2009, 01:54:12 PM
Idea #1 ftw. Keep it simple plleeeez.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Natef on November 25, 2009, 08:31:34 PM
I really like idea 2, because it's a lot like Robot Wars! I've always wanted to see a tourney in this format, ever since I came onto the forum.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 08:51:20 PM
Quote from: trumpetguy;80575
3. More like a league, but with elimination.


its based off the NHRA Drag Racing Championship Format having a small number of drivers left in contention, in the first year of having to new rules all 4 of the classes champions were decided at the last event and 2 of them in the very last race (in this case it could be the very last battle)

its a very entertaining and edge of your seat format to use :-D
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: russian roulette on November 25, 2009, 08:58:48 PM
I see your point Joe, but sometimes new things don't always work and the question is are you going to put the second largest tournament in jeopardy because of a new format? We are used to the Clash Cubes flow of the X bracket. I see what you mean because my dad used to do a little drag racing himself in the NHRA, but that doesn't mean anyone else would get it. And also only having 16 entrants? That is less than clash cubes 1!
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: Viper89;80585
Idea 1. Couple questions: Do you have some sort of idea yet when you might get this going( I know it's early;)).


not entirely sure but as I move into full time study next year + having to juggle a job around that I dont know if I will have the time to doo all the things like AI, etc so I was hoping to start late Dec-Feb time frame as that best suits me, I was going to aim for Jan as an actual start as that is the 1 year anniversary of me being on here :P

Quote from: Viper89;80585
Page 12 in my DSl showcase would The Devil's Vortex be legal for this tournment? if so I will stick around for this tournment :evil:.


that robot looks perfectly legal from what I can see, Crawler/ Thwacker if im not mistaken :-D (I prob am so someone please clarify :P)
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 09:03:42 PM
Quote from: russian roulette;80681
I see your point Joe, but sometimes new things don't always work and the question is are you going to put the second largest tournament in jeopardy because of a new format?


hehe flat out commenting in this thread :P

you make a very good point there ^^ I think that format 3 is better for a smaller and possible new tournament (nobody steal that idea lol I dont think many understand it anyway haha)

also CC1 had 12 entrants :P
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: russian roulette on November 25, 2009, 09:25:51 PM
Oh well, it's not yellow journalism when 1 fact is wrong. I have an idea for a new tournament too, incorporating internet memes into a bot or a whole new bot type!
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Viper89 on November 25, 2009, 09:29:31 PM
ya it's the Crawler/thwacker :D. Late December sounds good is there already a AI for that bot type that I can play around with to test
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: trumpetguy on November 25, 2009, 09:30:42 PM
Why is RR's family doing big things, dad-drag racing, brother-DJ on the road...
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 25, 2009, 09:35:38 PM
Quote from: Viper89;80689
ya it's the Crawler/thwacker :D. Late December sounds good is there already a AI for that bot type that I can play around with to test

one of the FBS.py's could work well if you want it to spin as soon as the match starts ?

otherwise whipper_plus would work well (see Phil's CC1 entry Awful Red Thing FOS)

Edit: also RR what did you dad drive ? there is a drag racing thread in the auto section in chatterbox im interested the hear about it there :)
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: russian roulette on November 26, 2009, 07:44:05 AM
Quote from: trumpetguy;80690
Why is RR's family doing big things, dad-drag racing, brother-DJ on the road...


Well were pretty normal actually. Don't judge people. I never did alot of things. The biggest thing I've ever done is going to college.
Title: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 26, 2009, 07:48:35 AM
there is still plenty of time in your life to achieve more.. like staying on topic would be a good one

hehehe just joking the poll is the only thing of real importance in this thread :P

vote. vote. vote. vote. vote. vote. did I mention vote.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on November 30, 2009, 07:36:20 PM
ok since ACAMS used the poll for BOTM I say we are clear to set up a new poll here, so for the third time lol please cast your vote

due to the new poll features you can change your votes also
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: russian roulette on November 30, 2009, 07:49:21 PM
Again it seems a simpler format would be better.
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 01, 2009, 10:34:59 PM
you guys are probably sick of hearing this but dont forget to re vote because the old poll was lost in the software change  :bigsmile: it was a tie at the time which is why I decide to do a new poll
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 07, 2009, 12:19:43 AM
voting has closed and at this stage looks like option 3 is the way to go

option 3 will take any amount of robots with a minimum of 16

option 2 will take an exact number of 36

option 1 will take an exact of 48
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 12, 2009, 03:56:44 AM
ok I have perfected the format for CC3 to something I think will make people much happier

but first a HUGE thanks to Madiaba who has helped me countless times throughout this project (and many others) here is the finished version of the Clash Cubes Arena

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6_INKOsUjU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6_INKOsUjU)

I will make if available for download just as I open up CC3 for entry's




now on to the format

one round of qualifying just to determine your placement in the bracket (so replacing the randomizer) it also mixes up the bots from faster ones to slower ones

then there will be 4 "events" with a 16 bot bracket for each, each robot will compete in 2 of the 4, you will get points for each win.

after the four events the number of robots in contention is cut to 10

there will then be 2 more "events" with a 16 bot bracket and every bot will compete in 1 of the 2 (even those out of contention) but only those 10 in contention will gain points towards the championship (so others can upset contenders)

after those 2 events we make a cut to only 4 contenders and we have 1 final event with the top 16 robots on the ladder competing

after we will then declare a champion  :mrgreen:

those not in contention will still gain points and go on a separate ladder to fight it out for positions 5 - 32   

this format imo sounds really good, its a league or championship style about it but also lets everyone have at least 3 best two out of three matches which is more then the standard winners/ losers style bracket
 
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: G.K. on December 12, 2009, 04:05:29 AM
Sounds good Joe.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: The Ounce on December 12, 2009, 04:08:08 AM
Sweet.

Format seemed a tiny bit confusing to me at first, but at least it's not generic, so it sounds cool.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 12, 2009, 04:14:45 AM
it makes more sence as it goes along I have ran something (not RA2) that used a very similar format so its not all new to me

Im proud of the final discussion as qualifying wont burden people any more with no more dependence on doing it well
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Clickbeetle on December 12, 2009, 08:41:09 PM
The finished arena looks great; better than the old one I think.  Pretty cool how you got the walls to cycle around like that.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 12, 2009, 09:02:23 PM
thank you very much, I took your advice on a few things, in my opinion the arena as a whole looks more smoother

those that find deciphering the video a little difficult to understand fully the layout is:

Match Start,
Walls Cycle Clockwise Twice (total of 30 seconds)
30 seconds of no activity
all walls move down (for only about 5 seconds at the 1 minute mark)
30 seconds of no activity   
Walls Cycle Clockwise Twice (total of 30 seconds)
Match End

well that's rounding the numbers everything is a second of so shorter to make space for the 5 second opening at half point
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: hypnodisc7 on December 12, 2009, 10:29:49 PM
i love the arena!  how did you do that?  it's awesome! :)
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 12, 2009, 10:53:55 PM
the construction work in the GMF and .Py for the walls was all done by Madiaba, including the writing of the hazard, separation of the walls, etc

he then throw it over to me and I skinned it, got rid of the spikes and saws and then wrote all the movements for the walls.  :mrgreen: (thanks to his helpful notes he left around for me lol)

I really cannot thank him enough for this arena, expect to see it available soon so you can test your CC entrys  ;)
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: H@zm47 on December 13, 2009, 04:44:07 AM
Awesome work, Joe.
I cannot wait for this to begin.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: G.K. on December 13, 2009, 08:32:08 AM
Neither can I. My bot is done, I just need to skin and AI it.

EDIT: I'm done, waiting for the official announcement.
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 14, 2009, 10:34:16 AM
not long now guys,
 
there are a few more tings coming out then just the announcement  ;)
 
just need to get my NarAI team out of the way first 
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Viper89 on December 14, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
sigh.... It's not idea 1 anymore. Could you tell us the 4 events an do you pick randomly or do we get to pick 2 out of 4 events? Just by how the format looks how it sounds like I would have to make a whole new bot which I'm not going to do , Thats too bad because I  really was looking forward to making this my last tourney :frown: .
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 14, 2009, 08:39:34 PM
the events are just miniature tournaments of 16 robots, qualifying will determine which miniature tournaments you are in

all "events" are

traditional 16 bot brackets
3 matches running for 2 minutes long
best 2/3 to decide the winner

you gain points for each round you win 
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Viper89 on December 14, 2009, 09:03:28 PM
lol o, I thought the events were Tabletop, King of the Hill etc...... Nvm My last post then ;) .
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: JoeBlo on December 14, 2009, 09:13:44 PM
its cool, I thought that was what you were thinking so thats why I clarified it

this tournament is a "series" or "league" of many smaller tournaments

I did this format so everybody will get to see there bot in more action then standard double elimination and you get the chance to ruin peoples hopes of winning even if your out of contention :P
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Viper89 on December 15, 2009, 02:51:02 PM
its cool, I thought that was what you were thinking so thats why I clarified it

this tournament is a "series" or "league" of many smaller tournaments

I did this format so everybody will get to see there bot in more action then standard double elimination and you get the chance to ruin peoples hopes of winning even if your out of contention :P

Ya I like this way better than the other CC formats  and it's more bots for me to smash *evil laugh*  :evilsmile: .
Title: Re: Clash Cubes 3 Format - Discussion
Post by: Badnik96 on December 15, 2009, 03:47:44 PM
I like the one Viper is talking about :P