gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: Urjak on August 31, 2009, 10:30:49 AM
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I was skimming through the tournament section and noticed that nearly every tournament had "no botfile editing of any kind" in the rules. This makes perfect sense, but it got me thinking:
Should it be considered illegal to botfile edit two black batts into each other, or botfile edit a control board into a red batt? Its just like stacking, and it perfectly possible, only you are doing it outside of the botlab.
Any thoughts?
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I did that once.
One could always do it in secret and nobody would know he BFE'd the thing, but stacking.
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I was wondering the exact same thing...I had to BFE a black stacked into another on Eremophobia (My popup in my stock showcase called WIP)..
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NO.
It's not always perferctly possible.
For instance, If I wanted to stack 3 blacks and a CB, it would take me forever and a day. But its possible to do because its been done. If everyone just .bot file edits their batteries it would ruin RA2.
Do you notice how many noobs have two black batteries next to eachother because they cant stack them? Its not perfectly possible for them to stack the batteries.
Doing it in secret is cheating. You probably won't get caught, but you won't feel good if you win.
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^ How I feel too. Honestly, stacking batteries is so easy.
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^No, Its not^
I still have trouble stacking 2 blacks together, but with BFE, its tonnes easier.
Besides, a 2 Z-Teks and 2 blacks in the same spot is BFE at its best, BUT if its just batteries, thats ok really.
Perhaps we can only allow that- BFE may ONLY be alloud on stacking batteries by them selves, no other components are allowd to be stacked with the batteries.
Plus, there may have to be even stricter bot c in tournaments, like checking to see IF its only batteries that have been BFE, nothing else.
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Another reason BFE should have been hidden and not shared.
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And how would you check that?
I say no to wham. if people cant stack bats that's their fault and they shouldnt be given a shortcut just cause they are skilled enough.
Like the slowest runner in a race cutting accross the track to win.
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Aslong as it's in possible bounds, it should be allowed.
Back when I was building BFR, I was getting frustrated trying to stack the black batts so I AAMed them. Click noticed one of them clipped the Z-tek collision box so I had to go back and adjust it. Other then a situation like that, it wouldn't of been noticed.
Then I finally got lucky stacking normally.
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(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/5016groghax.PNG)
...What?
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Now that is fine. Should be fixed in DSL 3 though.
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Ugh this will ruin stock.
really if you need blacks stacked that badly send the bot to me and I will do it for you...just don't bfe..
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Even though I've have no prob with someone doing it when it could be done in the Lab anyway, I always wondered whether to 'make public' or even a 'tutorial' about BFE.
Talking with ACAMS and CB, I never could justify explaining publicly how to do it, else it would open a can of worms. So I haven't, nor did I add it to the "Tutorials Poll (https://gametechmods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2355)" as an option (though tempted to). Probably building's better left in the BotLab, because of the potential abuse of anything else.
.
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NONOONONO.
Anyone who botfileedits parts into parts (unless it is what NARY did there) is a cheater and should be banned. It destroys the integrity of this game. Even if it is in legal bounds, if you cant do it IN GAME, you should not be able to do it out of the game.
Im sorry, but for those who have done it in stock, shame...on...you.
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I have to agree with inf here, If u cant do it in the game, don't take a shortcut, for it's basically cheating.
I admit, I cannot stack a CB in a batt, but I can stack batts. BFE would be easy, but who doesn't like a challenge?
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i wonder if u botfile edit you can make 2 chassis on 1 bot.
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AMEN INF.
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Hell, I don't even think Naryar's chassis shortening should be allowed, let alone BFE...
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I just think that it is strange that some of you think it is okay to lower the chassis (in a way you can't ever do in game) but if people try to stack batteries (which you can do in game) you freak out.
Anyway, I agree with R0B0SH4RK.
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I just think that it is strange that some of you think it is okay to lower the chassis (in a way you can't ever do in game) but if people try to stack batteries (which you can do in game) you freak out.
DSL realistic rule.
One could be done in real life, the other not.
Anyways for the chassis shortening, it probably won't be overused because very flat chassis can make your bot go nasty pickle.
Exact reason why i must rebuild the new Stinger.
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Nasty pickle = wheel larger than chassis. I believe.
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a super thin chassis might do that
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Yep.
Rip off my Feeblemind's disc (NAR AI) and you'll see what i mean.
Urjee's Bane II teleported OOTA a few times (not always) when i ripped off it's disc.
That's what i call nasty pickling, when you have a very small chassis and larger wheels, either your bot bounces uncontrollably (happens to the new BW of the SteelYard Dogs in my pack), either it havoks OOTA.
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my trinity flail sns teloported way oota when something hit its irons when it was spinning.
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If BFE were permitted, there is no way it could be regulated/monitored. I understand why one would want to use it for certain kosher things (some mentioned above), BUT it would only make major headaches for all involved. For this reason, legalizing any BFE mods in regular tourneys cannot happen.
But if certain 'freak' tourneys ok it for everyone (i.e. ACAMS' BOTM), then it is what it is....
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I'd like to put in my vote for being completely against this. Everything that mad said, plus the fact that most successful builders including myself spent a long time learning how to stack batteries and such to improve our standard combat bots. Back before I could do it well I would have jumped at the chance to take the easy way out, but I now know that its an important skill that helps separate the newbies from the trained builders and I am proud that I took the time to learn it.
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i only thing bot editing should be done for freak bots.
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I will admit that using .bot file editing to stack 2 Supervolts is reasonable.
The problem is that it's a slippery slope. There is a TON of stuff you can stack with enough time and a lot of patience. As Sage said, apparently someone, somewhere made a bot with 3 Supervolts and a control board all stacked. But that happens so rarely that it's effectively impossible. However, by legalizing .bot file editing, you open the floodgates to that kind of stacking in any old bot, because it is proven to be possible to do in the bot lab.
Similarly, it is probably possible, in theory, to stack a Nifty, a control board, and 4 baseplate anchors in a chassis just big enough for a Nifty. But it's so hard that nobody would ever do it, except with .bot file editing.
If somebody wants to allow .bot file editing in their tournament that's their business. It could actually make for some interesting designs. But it should never be accepted as the standard for bot building, nor will I ever allow it in BBEANS. For bots with stacked Supervolts I'll just have to trust the builder's honesty, but I will get a little suspicious if I get something like the above mentioned examples.
Oh, and
i wonder if u botfile edit you can make 2 chassis on 1 bot.
You can. The second chassis has to be a crawler though, since magic mobility only applies to the first chassis. And there were some other slight problems that I don't remember right now. It's a bit messy but it works.
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Oh, and
i wonder if u botfile edit you can make 2 chassis on 1 bot.
You can. The second chassis has to be a crawler though, since magic mobility only applies to the first chassis. And there were some other slight problems that I don't remember right now. It's a bit messy but it works.
Awesome! Maybe Symbiote can have an upgrade. I gotta try that. XD
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I think you lose if just one of the chassises is KO'd, though. It's not like using another bot as armor like Symbiote does.
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hunh so you can make a proper multibot then
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and it would work like how Robot Wars worked with 1/2 weight... interesting...
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When you shrink a bot's chassis using BFE, does the HP of the chassis shrink too?
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The weight lowers as well when you shrink it, so yes.
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can someone tell me how to srhrink the chassis but keep its colision mesh big?
it is explained better in my ra2 mod thread
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just a thought, you wanted the chassis small yet the collision mesh large right ? and you wanted to do this so the bots could fit into smaller places while still having a bigger "target" to hit? but (I might be wrong) if the collision mesh is large the robot will basically be that size in every way but appearance.. meaning the robot would still be large and still wouldn't fit in the tighter gaps??
...just a though :-D
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This is dumb. Makes me want to quit RA2 forever.
This is why the secret of AAMing was protected by old-era vets.
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just a thought, you wanted the chassis small yet the collision mesh large right ? and you wanted to do this so the bots could fit into smaller places while still having a bigger "target" to hit? but (I might be wrong) if the collision mesh is large the robot will basically be that size in every way but appearance.. meaning the robot would still be large and still wouldn't fit in the tighter gaps??
...just a though :-D
kid of but the collision mesh would still be big meaning that it wouldnt be able to fit into small places. only the 3d model thing that you can see would be small or even non existant
so it si yes to the second one
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This is dumb. Makes me want to quit RA2 forever.
This is why the secret of AAMing was protected by old-era vets.
I can't help but kind of agree with you. I sort of regret making this thread in the first place.
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i only use bfe for my mod right now...