gametechmods
Robot Arena => Discussion => Topic started by: ACAMS on November 07, 2008, 07:43:20 PM
-
As most of you know I made and tried to adapt an "Official" 1.31 patch to the stock game that added extra attachment points to the control board and the Snapper burst allowing it to be mounted Left or Right.
THIS IS NOT for an official patch, but an altogether different mod to the stock game as I think it is out of balance. I would like help from the community to properly adjust the components and if I didn't list one you think is out of adjustment please add it.
I would like people to make their adjustments and post them here for discussion.
THANKS for your help
Please keep in mind that the heavier the component the more damage it automatically does...tho some are out of adjustment.
name = Lawn Mower Blade (may need to add -- hitpoints = )
weight = 20
concussion = .8
piercing = .3
name = Canine VI ChewBlade (may need to add -- hitpoints = )
weight = 12
frequency = 5
name = Saw Blade (may need to add -- hitpoints = )
weight = 16
frequency = 5
name = Saw Blade2
weight = 18
frequency = 5
name = Saw Blade3
weight = 20
frequency = 5
name = Saw Blade4
weight = 22
frequency = 5
name = Saw Blade5
weight = 24
frequency = 5
name = Axe Head
weight = 12
concussion = .9
piercing = .4
name = Fireman's Axe
weight = 13
concussion = .9
piercing = .4
name = Battle Axe
weight = 20
concussion = .9
piercing = .4
name = Blade
weight = 10
concussion = .8
piercing = .3
name = Blade2
weight = 12
concussion = .8
piercing = .3
name = Blade3
weight = 14
concussion = .8
piercing = .3
name = Blade4
weight = 16
concussion = .8
piercing = .3
name = Ice Pick
weight = 16
concussion = .1
piercing = .8
name = Ice Pick2
weight = 8
concussion = .1
piercing = .8
name = Hammer Head
weight = 25
normal = false -1 0 0 (not exactly sure how this works)
(Maybe concussion = piercing = needs to be added)
(may need to add -- hitpoints = )
name = Sledge Hammer
weight = 30
(not exactly sure how this works)
(Maybe concussion = piercing = needs to be added)
(may need to add -- hitpoints = )
name = Spiked Club
weight = 14
concussion = .5
piercing = .5
name = Square Extenders (I think they should be stronger than round as they are heavier)
(not exactly sure how this works)
maybe this needs to be added ---- hitpoints = (500 - 600 looks fair)
name = Burst Pistons
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
name = Servo Piston
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
name = Linear Actuator
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
Please post your opinions here.
-
So, its a mod that regulates weapons and such (heavier weapons do more damage than lighter ones)?
-
There is something in the .exe that figures mass x speed to determine damage and I suspect the hammers use this.
-
I think the Black extenders need to be lighter and weaker than the red, you know, for more diversity.
Edit: also, I think we should work with the hitpoints like this:
10KG = 1000 HP
20KG = 2000 HP
And so on.
-
A realistic stock could be a good idea.
We should just have all the components being as efficient weight-wise as the others.
-Wheels should be equally balanced in weight, hit points and grip (the rubbers having the best grip, but not as much hitpoints as the N-12's or Fatboys, and the miniwheels being the lightest)
-Weapons should be realistic, their weight modified considering their size (with the 20cm pole spike being the lightest and the battleaxe the heaviest, not the 30kg hammer), and should follow the "same efficiency rule" as Click used in DSL 2.1, but with a lower efficiency than in DSL.
-Batteries should have the same efficiency too. (nifties having exactly twice the output and total power as a pink batt)
-Making all the armors double strength as in the original game, so DSA is just like regular Aluminium.
-
Actually, I was just thinking asking ACAMS make all armour double strengh, like in the first versions before release.
Would it be a good Idea to remake all the AI?
-
I disagree on the red and black extenders needing to be different.
I think the batteries are fine like they are.
I think the wheels are fine, except the little green wheel could be a little lighter.
The armor is great the way it is, v1.0 armor is way too much.
I agree the pole spike could be a little lighter and the battleaxe heavier.
The AI would be better when the game is balanced, especially the ones with saws and hammers.
-
The AI would be even better if we modded the stock bindings.py. It sucks for several bots, and perhaps we should add the Omni.py too.
-
I disagree on the red and black extenders needing to be different.
Fair enough.
I think the batteries are fine like they are.
They aren't. The pink is quite useless, and I think the Batteries NEED a better Weight to power stored to power given ratio.
I think the wheels are fine, except the little green wheel could be a little lighter.
The rubber wheel is 17KG. I think it REALLY needs a fix. Also, I think the bigger wheels need more HP.
The armor is great the way it is, v1.0 armor is way too much.
No, the Armour in the current stock is crap.
I agree the pole spike could be a little lighter and the battleaxe heavier.
I agree also.
The AI would be better when the game is balanced, especially the ones with saws and hammers.
They still could be beat with LW's if we keep to your plan. I seriously reccomend the bots to be modified, while still following the Realistic rule.
I'm not talking Starcore, more like... UBERMOD.
-
I think the Black extenders need to be lighter and weaker than the red, you know, for more diversity.
Edit: also, I think we should work with the hitpoints like this:
10KG = 1000 HP
20KG = 2000 HP
And so on.
Why not make the square extenders stronger, since they weigh twice as much?
-
Naryar already suggested that.
-
The batteries are ok the way they are, but if the armor isn't changed than everybody will just use DSA.
-
The pink battery works great in Ant and beetles
The rubber wheel is 17KG because it is made of heavier stickier rubber than the shiny
I like the current armor
This is to balance the components....not an AI pack....people can use Starcore if they don't like stock AI
SR the square extenders are on the list
-
Well, since we're at it, has anyone noticed that no matter what piston length you choose, it's still 22kg? So, for example, if I choose, say, a pocketknife, a butter knife, a carving knife, and a broadsword, they're all going to be the same weight? I kinda don't think that's right, do you?
I like the idea of balancing out weaponry.
-The saw blades were always fun, but simply way too weak for the game to be useful.
-The mini-wheel .... why in the heck does that weigh as much as a full-sized wheel? Shouldn't it weigh a lot less? (Okay, that's on the list ...)
-The control board DEFINITELY needs a couple more attachment points, especially on the sides.
-Pink batteries: any chance on raising the power just a little on those, maybe a few more points so the weight:power ratio would be more even? Maybe an attachment point on the side so they could be laid down flat, too.
Just my $.02 .....
-
Not to throw a wrench into anything, but we, the RA2 community, have been building with the same rules and limits ever since RA2's release. If you change everything that is stock into something new, then it isn't really stock, is it? Re-balancing the components and everything was the purpose of DSL. "Officially" changing the basic stock game just should not be done. If there is a mod on the other hand, I'm all for it and I'd help out, but if you ask me, updating stock is a bad idea.
And before I hear any of the "diversity" crap, I challenge anybody here to find a generic HS posted in the last month by any of the elite builders here. You won't find one.
-
Here Robo.
THIS IS NOT for an official patch, but an altogether different mod to the stock game as I think it is out of balancee
ACAMS we should DEFINITELY double-strength the armor because stock AI's actual armor is already double strength and DSA isn't realistic, as you need a realistic thing.
Here are some realistic component weights IMO according to volume:
Iron spike: 10kg
Mace: 9kg
Pointy tip: 8 kg
Razor: 6 kg
20cm pole spike: 4 kg (+2 kg for each 20cm more)
Chewblade: 25 kg
60cm Saw: 14 kg (+3 kg for each 20cm more)
Lawnmover blade: 20 kg
Hammer head: 20 kg
Sledgehammer: 25 kg
Battleaxe: 35 kg
Axe head: 10 kg
Fireman axe: 12 kg
Spike strip: 10 kg
Spiked club: 8 kg
Ninja star: 10 kg
Bear claw: 8 kg
Samurai sword: 14 kg.
-
AGAIN...THIS WILL NOT REPLACE STOCK...IT IS A MOD
I will look into changing the armor so that Alum = DSA and plastic is a little weaker Ti and steel stronger
SpyGuy has brought up something else needing adjustment and I added it to the first page.
name = Burst Pistons
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
name = Servo Piston
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
name = Linear Actuator
40 cm = 22 kg
60 cm = 22kg
80 cm = 22 kg
100 cm = 22 kg
120 cm = 22 kg
Naryar thanks for the list...even tho I disagree with 90% of it
the weight of most of the components are OK and I think
Battleaxe: 30 kg
concussion = 1.3
piercing = .9
name = Lawn Mower Blade
weight = 20
concussion = 1.2
piercing = 1.9
hit points added to make it stay on unless hit several times by sledge or battleaxe
20cm pole spike: 7 kg (+2 kg for each 20cm more)
Spiked club:
weight = 18
concussion = .9
piercing = .9
And add enough hit points to ALL saws so that they are very hard to knock off
-
For the saws...
Ninja star:
weight = 8
piercing = 1.2
60cm saw:
weight = 14
piercing = 1.1
+2 weight and +0.1 piercing for each superior size. more HP's too.
Chewblade:
weight = 14
piercing = 0.9
Ninja star should be two times weaker than the 60cm saw, and chewblade 2 times stronger than the 60cm saw.
Or something like that.
Agreed for the lawnmover blade and the battleaxe.
The lighter axes should have more piercing and nearly no concussion.
We should also make the motors equally weight-efficient, excepted perhaps for the HP Z-tek.
-
RA2: REALISM
i think the most important change that would need to be made is the HP values. Up the HP values a TON.
-
Someone post all the statistics to change and I'll pack it up as a mod.
-
Indeed, I agree with Inf...
I also think that the snowplow(s) should rack up points when they either ram or push against another bot (since pushing bots suck in general). Since they don't do damage, winning by points is a common victory in the real world, apart from things like judges decision.
-
More HP = more realism. Parts dont break easily in real life. Even in DSL parts break quite quickly.
-
Someone post all the statistics to change and I'll pack it up as a mod.
That is the purpose of this topic, I wanted everybody's input so I could add it to other mods I have done to the stock game.
So far naryar is the only one to put it to txt, but I have a good idea what is wanted and will have to do the mods and get beta testers before it gets released. Infact I should have a rough beta 1 out in the next couple days.
Post here if you have time to beta test and tell me if parts are too strong or too weak and I will change them unless you know how....but not necessary to be a beta tester.
-
I'm not talking Starcore, more like... UBERMOD.
That's what I thought when I first saw this. Hasn't this mod already been done with UBERMOD, or was that something different?
I've actually thought about making a mod like this before since it wouldn't be too hard, but every time I start brainstorming ways to improve stock, it turns into DSL. If I was going to use a balanced mod I think I would much prefer DSL...
That said, this mod might still be good to have. Sort of like a transition step between stock and DSL for people who don't want to switch "all the way".
My input: Remember the damage formula for keeping weapons balanced. Damage potential (DP) = 183.9P + 100C. P=piercing, C=concussion. So piercing does more damage than concussion. Then you just need to use the same HP*DP/mass for all components (for DSL it's 60000; for stock I think 15000 or 20000 would be a good number).
Armor strength also needs to be doubled, because with DSA it's basically like having only one armor choice. It takes the whole element of armor out of the game.
Adjusting weapon weights would be cool. Naryar's got a good list there. It's not strictly necessary, though, if there's a good reason not to do it.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned motor power yet. Everyone knows the motors in stock RA2 are WAY underpowered for spinners, so we have to resort to stuff like chaining Z-teks and servo enhancing. There's an easy solution. If you change only the first number in the motor's "power" setting and make it higher, the motor will spin faster when there's a disc or something attached, but won't make your bot drive any faster. Driving power doesn't need to be improved, that's good as it is, but slightly more powerful weapon motors would make heavy weapons like hammers more usable without servo-enhancing.
-
The burst motors need to be more powerful for flippers too.
-
The burst motors need to be more powerful for flippers too.
You've obviously never seen Jimxorb's Jex Air... probably the most powerful non-rupting flipper ever built.
Most flippers can't flip that high in real life anyway. There's only been a handful of ceiling flips in the entire history of robot combat. The burst motors probably don't need to be more powerful... except the Snapper II. You could make that thing actually usable as a burst motor.
-
On that note, any chance we could ramp up the power of the servo's so they have enough power to lift a heavyweight?
-
No, no matter how high you set the power they still can't lift.
-
I still dont think that DSL components have enough HP. IRL chassis are alot easier to damage. And when armor does get damaged, it depends on the thickness, material, and who the bot is facing.
-
But in real life, you also can't break a sledgehammer with a razor spike, yet you can do it in RA2. The way damage is done in RA2 is far from what happens in real life.
-
If DSL components had any more HP, there would be no more KO's. Every fight would end by points, or TKO if it's in an arena with pits.
In real life bots can get KO'd without getting all their armor ripped off first... but not in RA2.
-
See: No Apologies vs. Minion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Cuj21GtZE
-
Bots in RA2 arent ALWAYS fully armored. Certain bots that are are the ones that in real life would not be easily KO'd.
-
Please, can we get back on topic?
-
FC, This is technically on topic because we are discussing the strength of armor relative to real life combat, which is what we are trying to achieve (as closely as possible.)
-
Sadly I've built just about everything other than a fighting robot in real life.
I think the stock game needs a well deserved crash course into reality.. I dont care about the weight of the red/black extenders I just want to be able to attach on both sides not just one...
The circuit board SHOULD be able to be mounted ANYwhere and from any direction...
weapons should have a few more attachment points aswell... like the spiked mace has one on the end of it in DSL.. thats just fine.
the little rubber wheel should weigh alot less (on the list already)
the thin wheel should be a bit more grippy and should have more HP considering it LOOKs like the same rubber from say an airless electric wheelchair it should be as grippy and stout as they are.
The granny wheels look the same as an Air electric wheel chair wheel so make it super grippy but not as much HP due to the possibility of popability.
In-fact any wheel that looks as if it has air in it.. Fatboys, Grannys, and whatever others that I can't think of atm should have less HP considering they could be punctured and popped. (is there anyway you can make them loose their traction after x amount of DMG is taken to the wheel? that would make it more realistic then loosing the wheel all together if its inflatable.)
I think the angle motors should be more powerful or have an option of a higher powered brushless angle moter due to the fact that most REAL angle motors are geared up/down for speed or torque. (you guys saw the mythbusters episode where they made the batman grappling gun didn't you?)
Maybe go ahead and put in the 6 pointed extender with a decent amount of HP but very little weight cost considering it would be mimmicking a small weld. and possibly every crazy extender you can possibly think of b/c you can do anything you want with a torch and welder.
Please make the saw blades ALOT more durable... and possibly more dmg, In real life they are rigid as heck.. on the game they pop off seconds into battle, rendering them pointless.
This is a funny but good Idea... put in small nitro-methanol powered gas engines (you know like on gas powered RC cars) they are powerful, small, and extremely versatile. ofcourse this would mean having to add another source of energy...
gas tank (small, medium, large) there could be three sized... 1.5, 2.5, and 3.3
these are real motors I've had all of them one on a Smaxx one on a Rally Truck, and one on a Tmaxx all made by Traxxas. the only problem would be you would have to also make a rack and pinion sterring or something like the "power steering unit" that turns the bot considering gas motors dont just reverse by a push of a button.
3.3
(http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/trx33/slideshow/fullsize/trx33_aerial_fs.jpg)
2.5
(http://www.traxxas.com/products/nitro/trx25/slideshow/fullsize/trx25g_fs.jpg)
.15
(http://www.traxxas.com/support/troubleshooting/trouble_imgs/engineexchange.jpg)
also add 7cell battaries.. they last about 15 mins under high performance situations.. they will double most normal motors rpms and most performance motors are unstoppable with them.
Thats all I got for now..
-
I agree with most ideas excepted the last ones. We're not going to add new components, this isn't DSL.
-
Thats kewl if you dont agree... what about attachments on the sides of the small wedge!.. that is a good one yes? :)