Author Topic: Why Agnostics Suck (Read 3466 times)

frezal · « **on:** April 26, 2011, 02:10:24 AM »

I noticed that many of you label yourselves as being "agnostic" when it comes to religion. I found this video by Penn Jillette to be very entertaining (though some of you may find it informative). Enjoy (or don't):
http://revision3.com/pennpoint/agnosticssuck

Enigm@ · « **Reply #1 on:** April 26, 2011, 06:29:32 AM »

Turns out I might be an athiest then. :P
And Penn is awesome.

Serge · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2011, 07:12:20 AM »

I like to think of four possibilities when it comes to faith: gnostic theism, agnostic theism, agnostic atheism and gnostic atheism.

A gnostic theist is your average preaching Christian, who is 100% sure there is a god.
Most of the Christians I know fall under the category of agnostic theists. A whole lot of them just don't think about their faith.
Agnostic atheists are often still unsure about their faith and it's in this category that fall people described in the video.
Gnostic atheists are those who are sure there is no god.

Now here's the problem. While gnostic theists and theists may seem to be as bad when it comes to devotion and extremism, I see a difference between the two. The gnostic theist is gnostic because he truly has faith, and why wouldn't he? It's what faith is about - believing everything their religions tell them, no matter how ridiculous it may seem to be. On the other hand, a gnostic atheist bases his gnosticism solely on the fact that there are simply no evidences showing the existence of a superior being. He is not "following" or "believing" atheism but instead simply relying on rationality and reason (why would the existence of a god be more probable than the existence of an invisible pink unicorn right on a moon of Jupiter?). To me, a case of the latter, it seems completely different than being a mormon preacher...

Kujii · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2011, 07:17:09 AM »

Quote from: Serge on April 26, 2011, 07:12:20 AM

I like to think of four possibilities when it comes to faith: gnostic theism, agnostic theism, agnostic atheism and gnostic atheism.

A gnostic theist is your average preaching Christian, who is 100% sure there is a god.
Most of the Christians I know fall under the category of agnostic theists. A whole lot of them just don't think about their faith.
Agnostic atheists are often still unsure about their faith and it's in this category that fall people described in the video.
Gnostic atheists are those who are sure there is no god.

Now here's the problem. While gnostic theists and theists may seem to be as bad when it comes to devotion and extremism, I see a difference between the two. The gnostic theist is gnostic because he truly has faith, and why wouldn't he? It's what faith is about - believing everything their religions tell them, no matter how ridiculous it may seem to be. On the other hand, a gnostic atheist bases his gnosticism solely on the fact that there are simply no evidences showing the existence of a superior being. He is not "following" or "believing" atheism but instead simply relying on rationality and reason (why would the existence of a god be more probable than the existence of an invisible pink unicorn right on a moon of Jupiter?). To me, a case of the latter, it seems completely different than being a mormon preacher...

Yeah, he essentially cleared this entire thing up. Its just implausible to say there is a god. Even if there was, he'd have to be a cold hearted bastard to say that you only go to heaven if you blindly believed in a being that only an easily changeable book claims the existence of.

R0B0SH4RK · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:44:21 PM »

The problem that I see with agnosticism (that Penn kind of points out using fancy words like "epistemological") is that you can't have agnostic views on whether or not a God or a God-like entity exists. It's not a valid answer. It's fundamentally refusing to answer the question.

There are only two answers to the question of the existence of God and they are either yes or no. Therefore, if you attempt to answer this question, you are either a theist or an atheist. Labelling oneself "agnostic" is just a cop out.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:33:41 PM »

I thought you only tell theist you are agnostic just to shut them up. What it really means is that God is stupid and you don't care for such nonsense.

Meganerdbomb · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:50:29 PM »

But Atheists ARE as bad as fundamentalist Christians.

123savethewhales · « **Reply #7 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:04:11 PM »

Quote from: Meganerdbomb on April 26, 2011, 03:50:29 PM

But Atheists ARE as bad as fundamentalist Christians.

Because religion defines "Bad" as not believing, and kill you for it.

Meganerdbomb · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:07:08 PM »

Only Islam.

HurricaneAndrew · « **Reply #9 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:08:58 PM »

123savethewhales · « **Reply #10 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:19:50 PM »

Quote from: Meganerdbomb on April 26, 2011, 04:07:08 PM

Only Islam.

Right because all other religions never tried to do just that whenever they gain enough military power to do so.

And look, even the Islam taught in non Islamic states tend to involve a lot more tolerance. Why are they peaceful? Because their own survival depends on it.

Precisely why we needed the separation of church and states.

On a side note, I am not even an Atheist, I am an Epistemological Solipsist.

madman3 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:10:08 PM »

Quote from: Meganerdbomb on April 26, 2011, 04:07:08 PM

Only Islam.

Actually it's Pakistani blasphemy laws. I don't mind Pakistani people but their laws are way out of whack.
I'm also religious, I just try not to take it seriously.

Meganerdbomb · « **Reply #12 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:39:45 PM »

Seriously though, that was an entertaining video, and I actually agree with his main point. That Bible verse he mentioned was totally out of context though. Jesus wasn't telling his followers to go kill everyone who didn't believe in him. He was telling a parable, and in the parable a king says this of those who were trying to overthrow him.

Enigm@ · « **Reply #13 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:40:55 PM »

Quote from: Meganerdbomb on April 26, 2011, 05:39:45 PM

Seriously though, that was an entertaining video, and I actually agree with his main point. That Bible verse he mentioned was totally out of context though. Jesus wasn't telling his followers to go kill everyone who didn't believe in him. He was telling a parable, and in the parable a king says this of those who were trying to overthrow him.

THE PASSION

frezal · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:24:54 PM »

Quote from: Meganerdbomb on April 26, 2011, 05:39:45 PM

Seriously though, that was an entertaining video, and I actually agree with his main point. That Bible verse he mentioned was totally out of context though. Jesus wasn't telling his followers to go kill everyone who didn't believe in him. He was telling a parable, and in the parable a king says this of those who were trying to overthrow him.

But isn't that the problem with quoting religious texts? Either it's so generic that it can fit absolutely any situation (and thus, doesn't really mean anything), or it's being taken out of context to help prove a preconceived point.

Meganerdbomb · « **Reply #15 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:35:33 PM »

Sadly, yes. At least, most of the time.

Scourge of teh Galaxy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2011, 03:32:30 AM »

I don't take much of the Bible to heart, tbh. However, I do like the verse where the lady rams the tent pag through the guy's head (somewhere in the Old Testament, can't remember where)

When someone mixes religious theory with scientific theory, what are they? (And before you say "stupid", please answer my question sensibly)

Serge · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2011, 06:33:25 AM »

Quote from: Scourge of teh Galaxy on April 27, 2011, 03:32:30 AM

When someone mixes religious theory with scientific theory, what are they? (And before you say "stupid", please answer my question sensibly)

Stupid.

Scourge of teh Galaxy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2011, 07:06:52 AM »

Hey, you can bash me all you like - just AFTER I get a sensible answer that isn't along the lines of "stupid" or "retarded". Because I'm sure there's a name for it

frezal · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:21:13 AM »

Quote from: Scourge of teh Galaxy on April 27, 2011, 07:06:52 AM

Hey, you can bash me all you like - just AFTER I get a sensible answer that isn't along the lines of "stupid" or "retarded". Because I'm sure there's a name for it

"Stupid". Faith and the scientific method do not mix. One relies on blindly believing in myths despite the evidence, the other relies entirely on observable evidence.