The Big Questions of the Universe

[Pyromaniac605]

Remind me again how this isn't a brain-in-a-vat argument?

Because it's a brain in a cave argument. It's more than 2,000 years older than the brain in a vat argument.

[sarcasm]Oh no, I could never have forseen such an event! Clearly your brain in a cave argument is far more valid than the brain in a vat argument.[/sarcasm]

[Meganerdbomb]

They're both quite valid, but I can use an even better one!

Say you make contact with a race of aliens who see in a different portion of the light spectrum than we do. They see a polar bear and make the assertion that the polar bear is pink. You say the polar bear is white. Who's right?

[Pyromaniac605]

They're both quite valid, but I can use an even better one!

Arguments generally need supporting evidence to be considered valid.

Say you make contact with a race of aliens who see in a different portion of the light spectrum than we do. They see a polar bear and make the assertion that the polar bear is pink. You say the polar bear is white. Who's right?

Both of us, as we are both seeing different parts of the spectrum. Yet, also neither of us as colour is just a construct of the mind.

Edit: Null point anyway, if the aliens are seeing the polar bear a different colour either:
A. The alien's brains translates wavelengths into colours differently to our brains, in which case there would be no way to know that there is a difference, let alone communicate it.
B. The aliens visible wavelength differ to our own and other light reflecting off a polar bear is interpreted by their minds into what would be pink to us, and once again, there would be know way to know or communicate the difference.

[Gropaga]

Awnser to every question on this topic:
42.
 
Ontopic:
Why there is life on earth?

[Pyromaniac605]

Awnser to every question on this topic:
42.
 
Ontopic:
Why there is life on earth?

42. 

Seriously though, look up "Abiogenesis", that's the study of life from non-life.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

I agree with MNB.

[Meganerdbomb]

They're both quite valid, but I can use an even better one!

Arguments generally need supporting evidence to be considered valid.

Say you make contact with a race of aliens who see in a different portion of the light spectrum than we do. They see a polar bear and make the assertion that the polar bear is pink. You say the polar bear is white. Who's right?

Both of us, as we are both seeing different parts of the spectrum. Yet, also neither of us as colour is just a construct of the mind.

Edit: Null point anyway, if the aliens are seeing the polar bear a different colour either:
A. The alien's brains translates wavelengths into colours differently to our brains, in which case there would be no way to know that there is a difference, let alone communicate it.
B. The aliens visible wavelength differ to our own and other light reflecting off a polar bear is interpreted by their minds into what would be pink to us, and once again, there would be know way to know or communicate the difference.

That just proves my point. You both see what you perceive to be reality, yet your perceptions of it are entirely different.

[Pyromaniac605]

They're both quite valid, but I can use an even better one!

Arguments generally need supporting evidence to be considered valid.

Say you make contact with a race of aliens who see in a different portion of the light spectrum than we do. They see a polar bear and make the assertion that the polar bear is pink. You say the polar bear is white. Who's right?

Both of us, as we are both seeing different parts of the spectrum. Yet, also neither of us as colour is just a construct of the mind.

Edit: Null point anyway, if the aliens are seeing the polar bear a different colour either:
A. The alien's brains translates wavelengths into colours differently to our brains, in which case there would be no way to know that there is a difference, let alone communicate it.
B. The aliens visible wavelength differ to our own and other light reflecting off a polar bear is interpreted by their minds into what would be pink to us, and once again, there would be know way to know or communicate the difference.

That just proves my point. You both see what you perceive to be reality, yet your perceptions of it are entirely different.

Not really, the reality of the situation is that there is no reality, colours are something that would be perceived completely differently by an alien race, but we would still be viewing the same thing.

[Meganerdbomb]

But, it would still be an entirely different reality....

[Pyromaniac605]

No it wouldn't, they'd be seeing the same shapes, feeling the same textures, the colours would be different and that's pretty much it. I'd hardly call different colours an entirely different reality.

[Naryar]

But, it would still be an entirely different reality....

nope. It will be a different perception of the same reality.

[Fracture]

But, it would still be an entirely different reality....

nope. It will be a different perception of the same reality.

But that's exactly what makes it a different reality, the fact that it is perceived differently by two groups. If they are perceiving the "same" reality differently, where is the original reality that they are both viewing? How does one know if the humans are viewing it right and the aliens Copy A, or the other way around, or if we're both wrong and humans are viewing Copy A and aliens Copy B, and the true reality is still out there? You don't know, because you never actually know if you're "outside the cave" or not, so to speak.

[Meganerdbomb]

I see at least one person actually gets it.

[Scourge of teh Galaxy]

Your arguments are pretty, however

No one has seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched god. The men in the cave, the alien... They SEE these things, they HEAR these things. No one sees god, or whoever may or may not be up there. No one hears him. He's invisible, he's inaudible, he's intangible.

Something that isn't perceived by our senses has to have faith put into it (We also have to have faith that our senses aren't on crack)

Putting so much faith into the words and teachings and rules of something that may or may not exist - and there's no proof that he does beyond your own beliefs - without perceiving it with our senses... That's why

[Incredirobotwars]

I agree with Scourge on this one. Faith is put in the uncertain or unknown. You put faith in the floor being in front of you in a pitch-black cave, where the floor cannot be seen. You don't put faith in a red carpet being red.

[Pyromaniac605]

I see someone else can't tell the difference between "reality" and "colour".

FTFY

Seriously though, look at the definitions of reality,

Reaility - The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: "he refuses to face reality".

and tell me how seeing different colours counts as a different reality. By that logic people who are colour blind live in a different reality to those of us who aren't.

[Meganerdbomb]

I see someone else can't tell the difference between "reality" and "colour".

FTFY

Seriously though, look at the definitions of reality,

Reaility - The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them: "he refuses to face reality".

and tell me how seeing different colours counts as a different reality. By that logic people who are colour blind live in a different reality to those of us who aren't.

If two different people see things in two different colors, how can you know what color the object actually is? What if the aliens see shapes differently? How do you know what shape it actually is? There is no way to tell the state of things as they actually exist because your perception is limited to telling how things are to you. It cannot tell you anything about things-in-themselves.

[Pyromaniac605]

If two different people see things in two different colors, how can you know what color the object actually is?

Colour, as I told you earlier, is not an actual, physical characteristic of objects. If you can come up with some way that aliens could I'd love to humor you with an answer. Shape can be perceived through touch as well as vision, blind people can get a rather good idea of an objects shape simply by touch.

What if the aliens see shapes differently? How do you know what shape it actually is? There is no way to tell the state of things as they actually exist because your perception is limited to telling how things are to you. It cannot tell you anything about things-in-themselves.

If you can come up with some way that aliens could see shapes as other shapes, I'd love to humor you with an answer. Shape can be perceived through touch as well as vision, blind people can get a rather good idea of an objects shape simply by touch. Please stop acting as if vision is the only sense that exists and that it is wrong all the time.

[Scourge of teh Galaxy]

If two different people see things in two different colors, how can you know what color the object actually is? What if the aliens see shapes differently? How do you know what shape it actually is? There is no way to tell the state of things as they actually exist because your perception is limited to telling how things are to you. It cannot tell you anything about things-in-themselves.

The object is the color that is reflected into the eye when light bounces off of it. But you're still using examples pertaining to senses, which god is not, does not and will/can not

[Meganerdbomb]

If two different people see things in two different colors, how can you know what color the object actually is? What if the aliens see shapes differently? How do you know what shape it actually is? There is no way to tell the state of things as they actually exist because your perception is limited to telling how things are to you. It cannot tell you anything about things-in-themselves.

The object is the color that is reflected into the eye when light bounces off of it. But you're still using examples pertaining to senses, which god is not, does not and will/can not

If I said that I could see God? What basis would you have for telling me otherwise? You only have your own perception to go off of!
The only thing you can know is that you really know nothing at all.