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Off-Topic => Chatterbox => Topic started by: Sparkey98 on January 23, 2011, 07:43:22 PM

Title: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 23, 2011, 07:43:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAWdzh-dmSo&feature=related# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAWdzh-dmSo&feature=related#)
Discuss this stuff. Personally, I believe in the "man on the grassy knoll" and that there was two snipers.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on January 23, 2011, 07:45:18 PM
I subscribe to the Red Dwarf theory, that
shot JFK
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 23, 2011, 08:03:26 PM
Interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM&feature=related# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM&feature=related#)
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 23, 2011, 09:23:01 PM
Kennedy was shot by one shooter from the book depository. This one shooter was most likely Lee Harvey Oswald. This is the only theory put forth that matches with the ballistics evidence. The end.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Enigm@ on January 23, 2011, 09:27:29 PM
I think he was killed by Nazi Zombies...
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Scrap Daddy on January 23, 2011, 09:29:48 PM
he was never assassinated and has been working as a gas station attendant in Lawton, Oklahoma.


look harder, the proof is there.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Enigm@ on January 23, 2011, 09:32:35 PM
he was never assassinated and has been working as a gas station attendant in Lawton, Oklahoma.


look harder, the proof is there.
ORLY? I only live like a mile away from Lawton, so I guess I should check.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on January 23, 2011, 09:33:39 PM
In all seriousness, I do believe that it was just one not-quite-right-in-the-mind guy acting alone. 

That was the case with Presidents Garfield & Reagan and Rep. Gifford.

And remember that JFK was riding in a top-down convertible.  It doesn't exactly take a genius to pull that off.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Resetti's Replicas on January 23, 2011, 09:35:14 PM
he was never assassinated and has been working as a gas station attendant in Lawton, Oklahoma.


look harder, the proof is there.

I heard he got a job as a commercial slogan writer

"Ask not what your Klondike Bar would do for you.  Ask what you would do for a Klondike Bar"
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 23, 2011, 09:56:48 PM
he was never assassinated and has been working as a gas station attendant in Lawton, Oklahoma.


look harder, the proof is there.
Lies. He's been living in an old folks home in East Texas.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/extrava-danza/bubbahotep1.jpg)
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 23, 2011, 10:31:18 PM
his head won't go back if he's shot from the back.

FALSE.

As you can see from the orientation of his head, the head's center of gravity is behind the pivot point of his vertebrae. A bullet's momentum is not enough to send his head forward. If the bullet does have that momentum, it will just through the skull. Without control, the head will just flop to the place physics wants it to - to the back.

Your argument is invalid.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Urjak on January 23, 2011, 10:36:45 PM
A bullet's momentum is not enough to send his head forward.


Your evidence? Not necessarily saying you are wrong.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 23, 2011, 10:42:12 PM
That's what my Physics teacher taught us (she used friendlier examples, though). I could use kinematics equations, but that kinda ruins the mood. :P

Mythbusters also disproved it, albeit on a larger scale. That extreme throwback action from the opponents you see from the movies when they're hit by buckshot or .357 rounds - they're fake. Even a deer slug can't make them budge.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Urjak on January 23, 2011, 10:46:52 PM
Mythbusters also disproved it, albeit on a larger scale. That extreme throwback action from the opponents you see from the movies when they're hit by buckshot or .357 rounds - they're fake. Even a deer slug can't make them budge.


Mythbuster disproved the idea that a bullet can throw a whole person back with a bullet. They make no comment on whether a head could be blown forward or not.


If you could sight some sort of head-specific proof it would be ideal (not that I don't trust your physics teacher :P).
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 23, 2011, 10:53:44 PM
The basic concept still applies. A person is thrown back because the momentum the bullet carries, when combined with the weight the person has, can still give it a visible final velocity (I mean REALLY getting thrown back. Flopping doesn't count).

This can be better explained if you shift your view from the person shot to the person shooting. If you fire a shotgun, you experience recoil. That recoil is the force felt from Newton's Third Law. Both the shooter and the buckshot experience the same momentum. It's just that you are extremely heavier than the buckshot, which is why you move at an extremely slower velocity (which you can easily control by widening your stance or by shifting your own center of gravity forward). Seeing that the shooter and the person shot have relatively equal masses when compared to the buckshot - if you can't get thrown off by the recoil, the person shot won't get thrown back.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Larrain on January 23, 2011, 11:03:01 PM
if you can't get thrown off by the recoil, the person shot won't get thrown back.
Long story short :P

When I saw the first post I really thought ACAMS had created it.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Urjak on January 23, 2011, 11:05:39 PM
But we are only talking about someone's head being pushed forward. When you fire a gun, you feel the recoil. What is to stop this bullet from entering JFK's head, shifting the center of gravity so that the head would flop forwards if left on its own, and then disabling the brain so that the head goes limp?

The necessary force to shift someone's head forward shouldn't need to be all that much.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 23, 2011, 11:15:16 PM
Aha! And I shall now use the concept of impulse!

When you fall from a skyscraper, you experience a certain amount of momentum. Without any padding to soften your landing, you die. With some padding, you might survive the fall. In both circumstances, you experience an equal amount of impulse, but you experience different amount of forces. In the first instance, you experience a huge force as it took you milliseconds to transfer all your momentum to the ground. In the second instance, you experience a smaller force as it took you a second or more to transfer all your momentum to the ground. The bullet went through the head, meaning it was still transferring momentum inside his head. If the bullet didn't pierce the head, it would've been another story, though I doubt that would still be enough to force his head forward.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 23, 2011, 11:20:06 PM
think about it, his head won't go back if he's shot from the back.


i'll miss not knowing him though.
Wrong. As the bullet exits the head, it sprays the brains and junk out creating a rocket-like effect. Thus, the head goes backwards. For a more entertaining explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzyw7AcHbuY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzyw7AcHbuY#ws)
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Urjak on January 23, 2011, 11:22:36 PM
The main issue we have here is speculation. Neither of us actually know how much force a bullet can impart (depends on the bullet I would imagine).

I would argue a bullet could push someone's head forward depending on the gun and bullet type.


EDIT: Frezal's video is good enough for me.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 23, 2011, 11:25:05 PM
Yeah, frezal's example is better here. I'm too lazy to do the math. XD
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 23, 2011, 11:35:22 PM
Maybe you guys are right, maybe it was one guy :S
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: G.K. on January 24, 2011, 10:39:45 AM
I think there were two shooters, but Oswald fired all the shots heard on the day. I also belive it was a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 24, 2011, 11:18:12 AM
I think there were two shooters, but Oswald fired all the shots heard on the day. I also belive it was a conspiracy.
Why?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: G.K. on January 24, 2011, 11:21:38 AM
After a lot of resarch, which I'd rather not detail atm. Maybe later.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: martymidget on January 24, 2011, 11:25:09 AM
I subscribe to the Red Dwarf theory, that
shot JFK

Behind the grassy knoll, no less :O
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 24, 2011, 11:30:34 AM
After a lot of resarch, which I'd rather not detail atm. Maybe later.
I'd be willing to wager that most of your research consisted of half truths, omitted facts, speculation, and outright fabrications (especially if your research was primarily from web sources).
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: G.K. on January 24, 2011, 11:31:23 AM
Mostly from books on the subject, actually.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: FOTEPX on January 24, 2011, 11:32:31 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEAeLdEjtgg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEAeLdEjtgg#)

No, seriously, I don't care.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 24, 2011, 11:50:42 AM
I don't recall anybody asking whether or not you, FOTEPX, care about the Kennedy assassination. You see, us big boys know that we don't have to post in every goddamn thread.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: powerrave on January 24, 2011, 12:16:06 PM
i have gotten some interest in this thread, just because i want to know about this.

and Fotepx, if you don't care about it, then don't look at it and especially don't post in it.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 24, 2011, 05:29:26 PM
Without looking anything up, here is how I recall things happening: Oswald wanted to become a citizen of the Soviet Union. He, in fact, moved over to Russia. They deported him after it was determined that he offered no skills that weren't already covered by actual citizens. Disgruntled, he moved back to the USA. He now set his sights on Cuba. His grand plan was originally to take down the governor, but that quickly changed when he found out Kennedy would be there. So, he left his wedding ring, a bunch of cash, and a note to his wife explaining that he might be going away for a while, grabbed a gun, and splattered Kennedy's head onto concrete.

He had hoped to make his way to the Cuban embassy in Mexico, but failed. Why did Jack Ruby shoot Oswald? I don't know. "To shut him up," doesn't seem like a valid answer to me. It's easier to dismiss hearsay than it is to get out of publicly murdering somebody. He claims it was to avenge Kennedy's murder, but he was hopped up on drugs, so he may have not even put forth that much thought.

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYq-zTQYCB8&feature=related# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYq-zTQYCB8&feature=related#)
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on January 24, 2011, 06:12:27 PM
I can honestly that I don't give a rat's ass about who killed JFK.

The man is dead. Let him rest in peace.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 24, 2011, 07:51:35 PM
I think it was two snipers, because of the way his head splattered. It blew out from the right side, and if it was Oswald it would have been ether front, back or left side.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Somebody on January 24, 2011, 09:23:22 PM
I think that Oswald shot Kennedy himself and was the only shooter, but was not alone in the plot. And I think that the shooting of Oswald was planned to always keep the entire event in the dark.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 24, 2011, 10:01:37 PM
I think it was two snipers, because of the way his head splattered. It blew out from the right side, and if it was Oswald it would have been ether front, back or left side.
(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/head1x.jpg)
(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dox2.jpg)
(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/rydberg2.jpg)

Don't believe anything Oliver Stone says ever.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 24, 2011, 11:58:49 PM
looks to me to be the rightmost top of his head
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 25, 2011, 12:05:44 AM
looks to me to be the rightmost top of his head
Did you know that human heads are capable of movement? Give it a try!
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 25, 2011, 12:08:30 AM
i'm just goin by the zapruder film and the bell film.They both show his head looking forward and the bullet entering the right/top
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Hydro on January 25, 2011, 12:11:50 AM
I say Snipers + Convertibles = Why we can't have nice things.


That is all.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 25, 2011, 12:14:16 AM
I say Snipers + Convertibles = Why we can't have nice things.


That is all.
excuse me but **** off if you don't have anything constructive to say. Kennedy's murder wasn't funny.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Hydro on January 25, 2011, 12:15:44 AM
I say Snipers + Convertibles = Why we can't have nice things.


That is all.
excuse me but **** off if you don't have anything constructive to say. Kennedy's murder wasn't funny.

Who's laughing?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 25, 2011, 12:49:39 AM
i'm just goin by the zapruder film and the bell film.They both show his head looking forward and the bullet entering the right/top
Perspective and trajectory angle.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Naryar on January 25, 2011, 05:22:23 AM
So both of you are ballistics specialists, visibly ?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 25, 2011, 05:29:08 AM
You don't have to be a ballistics specialist to know perspective and parabolic motion. All you need is critical thinking. :P
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Naryar on January 25, 2011, 05:39:49 AM
And advanced kinetics if you really want to know what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Pwnator on January 25, 2011, 05:41:12 AM
And advanced kinetics if you really want to know what you're talking about.

That's for actual ballistics specialists. And engineering majors. :P
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 25, 2011, 11:19:50 AM
Some things to note:
Kennedy wasn't sitting directly behind Connally, nor was he sitting at the same height. His seat was elevated and to the right.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm)

Also, anybody basing any of their opinions on the Oliver Stone movie needs to read this:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfkmovie.htm (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfkmovie.htm)
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 25, 2011, 12:06:59 PM
His seat wasn't elevated, it was lowered. It was a jump seat. The video I posted explains that in perfect detail. Once again I am basing my opinions on the bell film and the Zap-ruder film.




Maybe Oswald shot from the Building, ran the hell out of there, and shot from the knoll with another gun?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: FOTEPX on January 25, 2011, 12:08:22 PM
Okay, I knew somebody would find out sometime, and It's about time I told you all...

I shot JFK. Oswald was playing cards, and that other guy was lighting a spliff. I was hidden in a nearby tree, and hit him at a 27 degree downward angle.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 25, 2011, 12:08:56 PM
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: FOTEPX on January 25, 2011, 12:09:53 PM
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: ThisDude069 on January 25, 2011, 03:59:47 PM
I agree with Frezal on the subject, however, I do remain somewhat critical of the outcome of the whole assassination, just the way some political actions were taken.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 25, 2011, 04:29:21 PM
His seat wasn't elevated, it was lowered. It was a jump seat. The video I posted explains that in perfect detail. Once again I am basing my opinions on the bell film and the Zap-ruder film.




Maybe Oswald shot from the Building, ran the hell out of there, and shot from the knoll with another gun?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: G.K. on January 25, 2011, 04:31:25 PM
He was found in the book repository.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 25, 2011, 05:04:15 PM
His seat wasn't elevated, it was lowered. It was a jump seat. The video I posted explains that in perfect detail. Once again I am basing my opinions on the bell film and the Zap-ruder film.
Wrong.

(http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dca1.jpg)
 
Maybe Oswald shot from the Building, ran the hell out of there, and shot from the knoll with another gun?
****ING IDIOT! No bullets that landed in President Kennedy could have been fired from the grassy knoll without defying everything that we know about ballistics. The ****ing trajectory of the ****ing bullet could have only been fired from the ****ing book depository. Had he been shot from the grassy knoll, the angle of impact would be different and the brains would have spewed out elsewhere. You said you understood this before when I explained the brain-matter propulsion. Did you forget, or did you watch more goddamn retarded videos on YouTube claiming to be presenting nothing but the facts?
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Naryar on January 27, 2011, 10:24:27 AM
Because telling an overreactive kid that he is a ****ing idiot sure will help in winning arguments...
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: frezal on January 27, 2011, 11:29:21 AM
Because telling an overreactive kid that he is a ****ing idiot sure will help in winning arguments...
It's a ****ing forum, not a formal debate. In conclusion, **** off.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Serge on January 27, 2011, 11:45:22 AM
Everyone knows the Jews did it.
Title: Re: Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
Post by: Sparkey98 on January 27, 2011, 01:57:14 PM
I thought it over for like another day strait, the way his head could have exploded means there was no way it could have been from the knoll. It was ****ing film grain   :beer: