gametechmods
Robot Arena Matches => Challenge Board => Topic started by: Avalanche on November 22, 2016, 07:21:19 AM
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Right now, the title system is absolutely meaningless. Anyone can challenge at any time, unless they don't agree with the rules the challenger/champion applies, in which case the champion can outright refuse to give a title shot, as Badger found out when he tried to challenge me to DSL-S HW Title, which never happened because of his wishes of DSL-S and mine for IRL.
Also, there are 6 different weight classes in each meta, yet half of the titles aren't even used. I firstly suggest reducing the amount of titles down to 4: One for each mod- Stock, DSL, IF, Retooled. We could also perhaps split DSL and Ironforge into DSL-S, DSL-IRL, Ironforge standard, and Ironforge IRL, if we feel that the standard and IRL communities are incompatible. Even with this, this would be approximately half the amount of titles we have, making them all more meaningful.
I suggest making it so that every 4 months, we have 4 title fights. The people who get these title shots are those who have won the most matches and are the top ranking for that 4 month period. People can run in title contendership for 2 out of the 6 titles we would have. To get a title shot simply rank up by taking part in challenges: then, at the end of the 4 month period, the top ranking players are given title shots depending on what metas they challenge., a Challenge Board mod sets up the match rules and arena, and the champion and challenger create a bot to suit the challenge. Best of 3 with hazards enabled should be standard, but if the challenger and champion agree then it could be changed.
By doing this, we generate hype around title matches, reduce the amount of championships on offer to make each individual one mean somethin.
In my opinion, we should assign the 4 metas to new champions. For Stock, the current champions of LW, MW, HW and SHW (in that order) are: Playzooki, Redace, Badger and Wacky bob. A round robin tournament to decide who is the new stock title holder could be held to select a new champion. The current DSL AW, MW and HW champions are 090901, S.H.I.E.L.D and Avalanche. We could either do a 3 way round robin, or if S.H.I.E.L.D is inactive we can do a best of 3/5 1v1 between 090901 and myself. For ironforge and retooled, give those titles to the winner of the IF and Retooled GTMCS.
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Approved so that we could discuss this, but please just post in the discussion thread next time.
The challenge board was never meant to be super structured or anything, it was just a place to post fun challenge matches. Someone decided to have a 'champion' at some point for each weight in each mod (which I remember thinking was overkill, as you said) but that doesn't mean we have to suddenly put in a whole lot of effort to maintain that list.
Personally, I think it should just be 3-4 titles, that are mod dependent (Stock King, or DSL king). You get to agree on the rules before hand. Maybe the current "king of the hill" gets to set the rules. Boo hoo, you have to beat him at his own game to take the crown. That sounds infinitely more interesting.
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We don't seen to fragment the titles any more. IRL shouldn't have a title, as it isn't about building efficiency. Title challenges should be posted in the challenge thread, be locked to a certain default ruleset/arena unless the participants agree otherwise, and if the title hold doesn't accept the challenge within 2 or so weeks the title is given to the challenger by default.
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When this was first created, there was a second option to each just build a bot and have the community vote on the best one. That could be used for IRL
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I'm of the opinion that IRL is as deserving of a title as any other category and shouldn't just be a beauty contest. A shocking concept to some, and honestly the best argument that IRL should have a title, is Badger saying it shouldn't.
If the arguement is about potential reorganising of these titles, I personally think these 5 make the most sense:
Stock
DSL-S
DSL-IRL
Irongforge
Retooled
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I'm of the opinion that IRL is as deserving of a title as any other category and shouldn't just be a beauty contest. A shocking concept to some, and honestly the best argument that IRL should have a title, is Badger saying it shouldn't.
If the arguement is about potential reorganising of these titles, I personally think these 5 make the most sense:
Stock
DSL-S
DSL-IRL
Irongforge
Retooled
You realise that an IRL title will just be whoever makes the wedgiest flipper thats barely IRL-legal, right (maybe whoever can spam the most mechavore discs while claiming IRL)? And there will be flame wars over the borderline-legal bots? Trying to build the most efficient IRL bot defeats the purpose, at that point you may as well go play DSL-S.
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I'm of the opinion that IRL is as deserving of a title as any other category and shouldn't just be a beauty contest. A shocking concept to some, and honestly the best argument that IRL should have a title, is Badger saying it shouldn't.
If the arguement is about potential reorganising of these titles, I personally think these 5 make the most sense:
Stock
DSL-S
DSL-IRL
Irongforge
Retooled
You realise that an IRL title will just be whoever makes the wedgiest flipper thats barely IRL-legal, right (maybe whoever can spam the most mechavore discs while claiming IRL)? And there will be flame wars over the borderline-legal bots? Trying to build the most efficient IRL bot defeats the purpose, at that point you may as well go play DSL-S.
good thing nobody cares about the challenge board titles
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I'm of the opinion that IRL is as deserving of a title as any other category and shouldn't just be a beauty contest. A shocking concept to some, and honestly the best argument that IRL should have a title, is Badger saying it shouldn't.
If the arguement is about potential reorganising of these titles, I personally think these 5 make the most sense:
Stock
DSL-S
DSL-IRL
Irongforge
Retooled
You realise that an IRL title will just be whoever makes the wedgiest flipper thats barely IRL-legal, right (maybe whoever can spam the most mechavore discs while claiming IRL)? And there will be flame wars over the borderline-legal bots? Trying to build the most efficient IRL bot defeats the purpose, at that point you may as well go play DSL-S.
good thing nobody cares about the challenge board titles
I think that's the main point of this post tho
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What I think we should do with the titles is make them an in-between between singular tournament winner status, and winner of either GTMCS or a GTM league in prestige: if you win a single tournament, woop-de-do: you won a single tournament fleeting from memory in months. sure, you did good, but it's not a huge achievement tbh. A RA2 league/GTMCS should be a "HERALD THIS PERSON AS A GOD AMONGST MERE MORTALS, YOU PLEBIANS!" victory. This could act as a intermediary, giving a constant source of hype within GTM and giving challenges more of a meaning, incentivising interest.
Have them defended every 4, maybe 1-2 months, so they are often being defended and don't become forgotten swiftly. Keep them fresh and dynamic by having them challenged often, but make sure people work for the number 1 contendership by making them win other challenges.
As for the DSL-IRL / DSL-S debate: Seriously? You are seriously annoyed there is a DSL-IRL meta suggestion when you don't play and openly despise this method of playing? Seriously? It's a game, I and many others will play it how we want. It even strains out the IRL users from your DSL-S, so you can keep your frenzy hammers, flails and gothic axes to yourself. I ain't forcing you to play our meta, I am not telling you this is the only way to play, this is actually giving us all more options. Badger, your argument solely relies on "irl bad no dont play it" even though that is entirely opinion based and is not a good reason to ignore all the other proposed changes, and would be covered by the splitting of DSL into DSL-S and IRL categories. Get over the existence of IRL or get out, because you sure as hell aren't contributing much to the discussion.
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I definitely don't think IRL should be a challenge title choice, tho. It will end up being the least IRL builder winning, tbh.
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I definitely don't think IRL should be a challenge title choice, tho. It will end up being the least IRL builder winning, tbh.
I think it should be. It's a lose-lose situation: do you keep DSL as all one meta, which forces players into either playing DSL-S when they are not capable of it or create a deadlock where they only play IRL and end up losing the title due to not playing standard, or do you split it into DSL-S and IRL, which creates the issue you state.
Thing is, I think it should be, because at least then our ****ed up IRL "who is the most BS" competition is separate from DSL-S and we can actually choose which one we want to play, rather than get forced into a DSL-S or IRL Match which we will absolutely lose.
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But no-one is forcing IRL builders to then play DSL-S. There are plenty of IRL tournaments coming and going that they can enter, instead.
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Tbh the winner of the IRL challenge should be whoever loses the battle but still manages to make a sick looking bot
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But no-one is forcing IRL builders to then play DSL-S. There are plenty of IRL tournaments coming and going that they can enter, instead.
But it would unfairly restrict them from being able to challenge a DSL-S DSL Champion, and vice versa.
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If title holder rejects a challenge they should lose the title to the challenger by default. End of.
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But no-one is forcing IRL builders to then play DSL-S. There are plenty of IRL tournaments coming and going that they can enter, instead.
But it would unfairly restrict them from being able to challenge a DSL-S DSL Champion, and vice versa.
No it wouldn't. Want a title, learn how to build.
If title holder rejects a challenge they should lose the title to the challenger by default. End of.
Didn't happen when I challenged lra2
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That's my point, that should be implemented in my opinion. As you say, want the title? Earn it. Learn to build.
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That's my point, that should be implemented in my opinion. As you say, want the title? Earn it. Learn to build.
My bad, misread your post. I think that the current rules say the same as you proposed, but he found a loophole by only agreeing to a ridculous non-competitive ruleset.
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But no-one is forcing IRL builders to then play DSL-S. There are plenty of IRL tournaments coming and going that they can enter, instead.
But it would unfairly restrict them from being able to challenge a DSL-S DSL Champion, and vice versa.
It's not unfair. It's just DSL-S. Like I said, if you want to build IRL, you know what you're in for. It's either gonna be on the mantelpiece in your showcase or it's gonna be in an IRL tournament. No-one is doing IRL challenges in DSL, and especially not title ones.
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Team champions?
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Team champions?
Became irrelevent, were odd, and would clutter the challenge board up with more titles which is exactly this overhaul is tryimg to avoid.
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I've had the intention of building a microsite for the CB using the main Google Sheet as a database for it (intermediately until if I ever can get around to porting the data to a proper performant webstack DB). As a side-effect, this would present the title holders in a more honourable state, which may increase the prestige of the titles somewhat… but it's just getting around to actually building the site :/
In any case, I'll await the final verdict on the titles before I do anything impactful.
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This thread died. I think that we should do SOMETHING with the titles, and make them worth more.
Let's take the original idea I proposed, but tweak it slightly: There should be 5 titles: Stock, DSL Standard, DSL-IRL (Can only be defended or won in a Vote Battle, so it isn't about efficiency in any way), Ironforge, Retooled. This keeps those who solely play IRL happy and keeps everyone else happy.
Next, people can list themselves to be contenders for a title at any time, but lose all progress they have made if they switch. To move up in contendership rankings, they must challenge people to matches. We could simply use the current challenge board Leaderboard system where a win = 1 point, a loss = -1 point, and a DQ is -1 to disqualified participants but 0 for anyone else. At the end of a 3 month period (The match should be arranged in the last 7 days of the month, then the match should be completed by the end of the month), the champion MUST face the current #1 contender in a BO3 match, with either their most recently used robot being used or they can provide a new one. If they are inactive then they vacate the title, and the #1 and #2 contenders face each other for the title.
This obviously would be different for the IRL title, where the champion and challenger would both provide a new robot they have not showcased before and send them as a vote battle.
This should happen. We need to make the challenge board titles mean something, so we have something constant to look forward to. We have that with BOTM, but that is for the coolest/most meme robot, so perhaps we can have this as something to constantly look towards. The benefits are: constant competition to keep community interest high, different mods so people have their preference, less fleeting victories than tournament wins, and it makes the challenge board mean something once more.
There is literally no downside to this IMO. We should discuss and implement this ASAP for the new year.
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I'm not really sure how making it harder to attain titles will make the titles mean anything to people. Honestly the only way you really could would be is to give people a logo or like an actual challenge beltish looking thing below their username so there would actually be some sort of reward involved. Of course the only way to pull that off would be for someone with admin powers to update that stuff when needed, and Trov wouldn't be around enough for that. Plus with the whole "3 month period" thing you suggested it basically becomes a mini GTM championship.
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Of course the only way to pull that off would be for someone with admin powers to update that stuff when needed, and Trov wouldn't be around enough for that.
What I would recommend, is upgrading one of your existing moderators to admins. Namely either Craaig or Kill343gs. While they both have thier pros and cons (craig being more consistently active, but doesn't have as much moderation experience, kill being basically the opposite), I feel that either one of them would be the best for the job. Another boon to having these two in particular be admin, is the fact that the Discord chat offers a direct line of real-time contact to them, as opposed to waiting for them to log on to GTM and respond to a PM you send them.
(https://i.sli.mg/NHRI9F.png)
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I'm not really sure how making it harder to attain titles will make the titles mean anything to people. Honestly the only way you really could would be is to give people a logo or like an actual challenge beltish looking thing below their username so there would actually be some sort of reward involved. Of course the only way to pull that off would be for someone with admin powers to update that stuff when needed, and Trov wouldn't be around enough for that. Plus with the whole "3 month period" thing you suggested it basically becomes a mini GTM championship.
We definitely need a role/title setup on profiles to give some actual prestige to those who have won a title.
Of course the only way to pull that off would be for someone with admin powers to update that stuff when needed, and Trov wouldn't be around enough for that.
What I would recommend, is upgrading one of your existing moderators to admins. Namely either Craaig or Kill343gs. While they both have thier pros and cons (craig being more consistently active, but doesn't have as much moderation experience, kill being basically the opposite), I feel that either one of them would be the best for the job. Another boon to having these two in particular be admin, is the fact that the Discord chat offers a direct line of real-time contact to them, as opposed to waiting for them to log on to GTM and respond to a PM you send them.
(https://i.sli.mg/NHRI9F.png)
Yeah, Trovaner needs to do SOMETHING about this, because it feels like the mods are limited in what they can do as they answer to the Administrators, who are practically non-existant at this point.
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Of course the only way to pull that off would be for someone with admin powers to update that stuff when needed, and Trov wouldn't be around enough for that.
What I would recommend, is upgrading one of your existing moderators to admins. Namely either Craaig or Kill343gs. While they both have thier pros and cons (craig being more consistently active, but doesn't have as much moderation experience, kill being basically the opposite), I feel that either one of them would be the best for the job. Another boon to having these two in particular be admin, is the fact that the Discord chat offers a direct line of real-time contact to them, as opposed to waiting for them to log on to GTM and respond to a PM you send them.
(https://i.sli.mg/NHRI9F.png)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/11923Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.png)
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Sage4Admin2k17
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Sage4Admin2k17
Sarcasm aside, Sage or someone trustworthy and active for mod, Craaig/Kill for admin. Boom, ****ing done. GTM has a more active admin (though trov is presumably busy, no feedback from him is a bad sign.) who can engage with the community while Trov handles the backend.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
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prank: we have a community wide vote on the new admin
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Sage4Admin2k17
Sarcasm aside, Sage or someone trustworthy and active for mod, Craaig/Kill for admin. Boom, ****ing done. GTM has a more active admin (though trov is presumably busy, no feedback from him is a bad sign.) who can engage with the community while Trov handles the backend.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
First of all I'll overlook the blatant popularity contest here (calling me out for meming while ignoring Sage's before), and out of respect for everyone else, I have deleted my original post.
I'd like to think I am an active mod; I check this area at least 5 times a day, ensuring that the spreadsheet is up to date with any new results and threads are locked/renamed properly. I am sorry if no-one appreciates my work, and this disheartens me. If any more popular mod would like to take over, I can transfer the spreadsheet to you or you can make your own and I'll just delete mine.
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Sage4Admin2k17
Sarcasm aside, Sage or someone trustworthy and active for mod, Craaig/Kill for admin. Boom, ****ing done. GTM has a more active admin (though trov is presumably busy, no feedback from him is a bad sign.) who can engage with the community while Trov handles the backend.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
First of all I'll overlook the blatant popularity contest here (calling me out for meming while ignoring Sage's before), and out of respect for everyone else, I have deleted my original post.
I'd like to think I am an active mod; I check this area at least 5 times a day, ensuring that the spreadsheet is up to date with any new results and threads are locked/renamed properly. I am sorry if no-one appreciates my work, and this disheartens me. If any more popular mod would like to take over, I can transfer the spreadsheet to you via or you can make your own and I'll just delete mine.
I think you might be overlooked because you rarely post, so your work is kinda invisible to most members. I'm sure the vets and the people what actually pay attention in the community do appreciate your work, Dragonfire.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
I don't know what's worse, LRA2 flaming someone for memeing or implying that that 1 post is derailing the thread. Give the dude a break, you don't have to flame literally everyone at every opportunity you get. Save it for the actual sh**posts.
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Sage4Admin2k17
Sarcasm aside, Sage or someone trustworthy and active for mod, Craaig/Kill for admin. Boom, ****ing done. GTM has a more active admin (though trov is presumably busy, no feedback from him is a bad sign.) who can engage with the community while Trov handles the backend.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
First of all I'll overlook the blatant popularity contest here (calling me out for meming while ignoring Sage's before), and out of respect for everyone else, I have deleted my original post.
I'd like to think I am an active mod; I check this area at least 5 times a day, ensuring that the spreadsheet is up to date with any new results and threads are locked/renamed properly. I am sorry if no-one appreciates my work, and this disheartens me. If any more popular mod would like to take over, I can transfer the spreadsheet to you or you can make your own and I'll just delete mine.
Apologies, I was trying to say with the SICK MEME part that this disregard from Sage, AS, 09 and you were pointless and didn't help. Your work isn't seen too much but when we look harder and have it pointed , I see all this sh** is done for us with care and attention. For that, you are a great mod. I ****ed up and insulted you in particular with my quote formatting, when I was more angry about everyone deciding to "LEL MEME" it up instead of trying to make valid discussion. My "Sarcasm aside" part was trying to see a slight benefit, but i can see how this made you think I was digging at you in particular. Again, your work here is always gonna be appreciated, even when twats like me **** up and don't show respect.
Please stay, you are a great mod.
I already maintain the main CB spreadsheet, it would make sense for me 2 B admni yis? kappa
Instead of posting "SICK FUNNY MEMES XD" can we actually discuss this idea? Sure, titles aren't regarded too highly but that could, with the proper planning and attention which I am hoping to provide, be rectified. And if 3 months is too long? 1 month then.
I don't know what's worse, LRA2 flaming someone for memeing or implying that that 1 post is derailing the thread. Give the dude a break, you don't have to flame literally everyone at every opportunity you get. Save it for the actual sh**posts.
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I'll post 1 reply to this, and be done. Yes, I attacked a highly helpful moderator for no decent reason. I ****ed up, and I have apologised. But here's where my frustration stems from: this post was meant for serious discussion about what we could do to improve the challenge board, and potentially make this sh** more important and active. What did I get in return? Bad, unfunny and unhelpful memes about needing a new admin. Come on, I try to make an actual valid point and this is what we get.
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Dragonfire is the real mod of this section, I barely do anything. He'd make a great overall moderator.
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Dragonfire is the real mod of this section, I barely do anything. He'd make a great overall moderator.
+1
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OK here is a rough draft of an idea I had floating around the other day to replace the title system with.
GTM Challenge Belt
-1 challenge belt holder, the challenge belt holder changes every month (how this works below)
-The Challenge Belt would be a banner or something that would be below the holders username
-Challenge belt holder picks the Mod (Stock, DSL, Retooled, Ironforge) and weightclass (maybe limit this to just LW, MW, HW) for that months challenge belt challenger to fight him in. (Cannot pick the same Mod two months in a row)
-To be eligible to challenge for the belt, you would need to win a challenge during the course of the month. (This could upped depending on the number of the challengers)
-At the end of the month, all the people who are eligible for to challenge for the Belt and sent a bot (You can send your bot anytime during the month after you become eligible) to Challenge Belt Host (I'm thinking Dragonfire for this) compete in a Mini single elimination bracket, with the winner facing the current Challenge Belt holder to fight for the Belt.
-Since this should take place at the same time of BOTM voting, Trov could then update this and BOTM at the same time.
give me your thought m8s
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+1 this should be implemented ASAP
For the first challenge belt title holder, i say take everyone who currently has a challenge board title and put them through single elimination bracket.
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I disagree since half those guys aren't active, I think a better idea would to be just have the challenge board mods pick the mod and weight class for that month and have it run how it normally would.
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I like this idea but I think there needs to be a fall-back for if the Belt holder becomes inactive; if no mod & weight class is chosen within a week, combo is picked at random.
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I like this idea but I think there needs to be a fall-back for if the Belt holder becomes inactive; if no mod & weight class is chosen within a week, combo is picked at random.
But if they are inactive, they can't defend the belt anyways. I'd say they should defend the belt using the same robot and combo they used for their last defence, but if they aren't active by the next defence then they vacate the belt, and the top two players of the single elim tournament play each other in a best of 3 match to decide a new champion.
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Yeah if you don't pick a mod right away it should become random, and if you don't send a bot you forfeit your defence and whoever would have had to fight you just gets it. Having the mod not change is dumb since them someone could just purposely not pick so they could defend the same thing twice.