Author Topic: Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?  (Read 6163 times)

Offline kill343gs

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« on: August 10, 2009, 01:13:07 PM »
I don't know about you, but I've always wondered what made wedges like Neglected Waterbug's or Rabid Pit Bull's so much better than the ones on my bots. Well, we know that a lot of factors can affect wedges, and many theories exist as to what makes some wedges better than others. But there is very little hard evidence other than people's personal experience in the bot lab and the arena. Well, I'm going to take a look at all of these factors and lay it all out on the table for everyone to see. If anyone sees an issue with something I've posted here or has something to add please let us know.

I'm no expert on wedges or really anything having to do with RA2 when compared to some members of our community (I'm an average builder at best,) so basically this is a learning experience for me as well. I know Clickbeetle has tested a few of these things himself in the RA2 Mythbusters thread, but I'm going to attempt to cover all of the bases in this instance.

Part One: The Wedge Component

So the first thing that comes to mind when working with wedges is the wedge components themselves, and that is the first thing I tested. I used the same robot for all of these tests, changing only the extenders and the wedge itself. Here is the bot:



I tested 4 different wedge bot setups:
 1. A small wedge
 2. Chassis wedge with ballasts (the snapper and all extenders were removed to make room for ballasts. This is the only bot where a motor was moved.)
 3. An Emergency wedge
 4. A bracket wedge



Results indicate that just as expected, the small wedge easily gets under all of the other wedges. The next best was the Emergency wedge, which got under both the ballast and the bracket wedges. Third was the ballast and finally the bracket wedge.

Part Two: The Mounting Motor

We all know that a wedge mounted on a burst motor is better than one attached to a stationary component (or do we? possible test later to verify perhaps?) But which burst motor makes the best attachment point?

Again, I used the same bot for all tests. This time only changing the burst motor. I made sure to line up the attachment point on the rotating arm with the same line in the chassis each time as close as I possibly could.



Results verify what Pyscolone stated below... DDTs absolutely make the best wedges, consistently beating out all the other kinds. Next was a green snapper mounted parallel to the chassis. Third, the green snapper mounted perpendicular to the chassis with the rotating arm at the bottom. And surprisingly, a tie occurred between the blue snapper and the perpendicular green snapper with the arm at the top.

A rock-paper-scissors effect was created between some of these motors... This is more easily explained in this diagram:



So there you have it. DDTs make the best wedges, so if you can afford the weight, use them. I'm sure somebody will have something to say regarding the blue snapper, so if you can get some testing to disprove mine, please do so.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 09:02:36 PM by kill343gs »


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Offline System32

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 01:35:28 PM »
Could you also try Upside down versions of both wedges, but not done in a fail so spectacular like click did? (AKA: Make the wedge Vertical)
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Offline kill343gs

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 01:42:28 PM »
That is one of the things I plan on testing, yes.


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Offline pyscolone

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 06:55:41 PM »
Already can tell you DDT is best under NORMAL circumstances, next is the Snapper2 than the Snapper II. I was going to post how a Snapper2 can get under a DDT but that is as Kill stated, personal experience. When I usually test wedges the small wedges back/bottom should just graze the bottom of the chassis.

Offline DuckRA2

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 09:50:24 PM »
I am gonna get flamed for this but: do you really think it is a good idea to release the secrets of RA2? one day, all bots will probably use the most effective wedges possible and fights will then be base on luck =(

Offline JoeBlo

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 02:57:51 AM »
I think as click mentioned before it comes with placement too ... also you have to build a bot to back up an awesome wedge so I dont think luck will be on the table

Offline kill343gs

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 09:03:34 PM »
Part two is up.


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Offline Madiaba

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 09:26:49 PM »
Nice work, K-3.  Your efforts into the game are admirable and informative.
If I have time (yea, right!) I may try to replicate your tests and report back with the findings...
Input is appreciated. :)
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Offline kill343gs

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 10:12:52 PM »
I'm just glad to be helping out... I figured since I don't understand all the component modding and such you guys do I had to do something a little more simple.


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Offline Trovaner

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 11:01:21 PM »
How do servos compare to burst motors?

I performed a couple tests of my own a while back but I can't remember anything concrete. If I have time, I'll conduct some of my own tests.

Offline Clickbeetle

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 09:14:53 PM »
Good work.  How did you decide the rankings of the wedges and the burst motors?  Was it just a lot of trial runs?  If so, it might be good to know the exact statistics, like whether DDT's are a lot better than Snapper 2's, or just a little.

Also, while these are good general rules, remember that there are so many other factors affecting wedginess (weight distribution, angle, ground clearance, speed, effect of spinning weapons) that it's usually impossible to predict how good a wedge will be by just looking at it.

I have a hunch that DDT's are only the best for wedges because they're the heaviest, and putting more weight at the front of your bot makes a better wedge.  The fact that Snapper2's are the next best and Snapper II's are the worst support this.  If true, then servos would be about equal to Snapper 2's.

On that note, you forgot to test flat Snapper 2's with the body in front of the axle.  In theory, you would get better weight distribution and a better wedge.

And also ballasts combined with a small wedge.

But that would be a lot of work, of course, and you've done a lot already.

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Offline 40757

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2009, 10:24:52 PM »
If you think it's just weight distribution, then maybe test this again with the snapper at the back with equal length of extenders.

Offline Trovaner

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2009, 10:34:59 PM »
You could modify the burst motors so that they weigh the same and compare the results with the results of normal burst motors.

Offline kill343gs

Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2009, 10:51:01 PM »
I ran in most cases a series of three tests unless something strange happened and I would disclude that round...

I know that there are more factors beyond the builder's control, I'll add a disclaimer to the front. My tests were ran under 'ideal' conditions; I.E. No speed (or low speed charge if there was a stalemate between the two), the bots were as exact as possible, I only moved components that needed to be moved (the ones i was testing), and I made sure to line the bots up as straight as I possibly could.

I'll test the weight distribution of the motors next... Its likely that that is the cause now that you say that. I would mod the motor weight if I understood component modding... That type of thing is beyond me. One thing I could do is put the burst motor on the other side of the drive motors... I'll test that tomorrow most likely.


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Offline Sage

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2009, 11:19:08 PM »
i beleieve you can just add a "Mass = ???" line in the components .txt file to change the weight. not sure... but i think so.
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Offline infiniteinertia

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2009, 11:54:44 PM »
awesome testing k343.
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Offline somestrangeguy

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2009, 02:33:42 PM »
Quote from: Weirdo;59429
don't attach two wedges to one burst motor.

This caught my eye. Does it really matter if there is one or 2 or more on same burst motor?

Offline Weirdo

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2009, 03:24:10 PM »
Its what I was told when I built my first popup...
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Offline RedSawn

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 11:05:49 AM »
Quote from: Weirdo;59447
Its what I was told when I built my first popup...


Nobody's tested it yet though.




Offline somestrangeguy

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Wedge testing: What's under RA2's best wedges?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 11:42:15 AM »
Yep, and im also intrested on how much effect placing ramplates for armor affect the wedges, when they are attached to the wedge extenders.