Author Topic: IMPORTANT CHANGES: Tournament Rule Change Discussion  (Read 34602 times)

Offline cephalopod

IMPORTANT CHANGES: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« on: September 12, 2013, 03:07:36 AM »

Rule Changes to Entry Level Tournaments and Display Tournaments have now been made, but may change at any time. I will also be asking hosts for feedback on the new process as it comes into use.
Please visit the Tournament Management thread and/or Display Tournament Rule thread to view these changes.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 10:37:18 AM by Craaig »
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Offline Jonzu95

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 03:25:58 AM »
Is the minor tournament host vote really needed? There isn't going much around in GTM right now and so on.

Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 04:26:11 AM »
The thing I find useful about the vote is it gauges interest in the tournament - if any tournament goes through to signups and then isn't supported by the community, it'll end up lapsing and a possibly unnecessary black mark is left on their name.
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Offline Jonzu95

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 04:33:17 AM »
The thing I find useful about the vote is it gauges interest in the tournament - if any tournament goes through to signups and then isn't supported by the community, it'll end up lapsing and a possibly unnecessary black mark is left on their name.
Yeah, I thought about that afterwards as well. I got nothing else to say about the rules though

Offline JoeBlo

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 04:36:33 AM »
Perhaps polls need to brought in with all tournaments able to be voted (multiple option voting as opposed to single option) 


if you achieve an amount of votes that is greater or equal to your specified amount of signups you may go ahead, this could also serve as an on going thing rather then a poll once a month (via poll option editing)


Food for thought..

Is the minor tournament host vote really needed? There isn't going much around in GTM right now and so on.



I agree, I introduced the system back when we had more tournaments starting then showcases, but now I think its cutting the circulation of this website a little

Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 04:44:23 AM »
So, in theory, we could introduce a rule that means all discussion topics must have a poll showing more than enough people are willing to enter?

Could get a little complicated for multiple-bracket tournaments such as Battlebots where people can enter several times, but if we keep the current limitations on size for minor hosts, the only big multiple-bracket tournaments will be run by major hosts, which should have enough interest to fill them without issues in any case.

Either that or for those tournaments the poll must have multiple choices, eg
Which do you plan to enter?
-LW
-MW
-HW
-None

I do agree that the current system is restricting the flow at this time, it's just working out a system that ensures the tournament will run smoothly.
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Offline JoeBlo

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 04:52:20 AM »
Id still utilise a polling thread, some hosts like to use that feature to make decisions such as weight class' or arena's, etc


At least its all contained in the one place for your convenience too


A flaw in my idea I just noted would be if the poll stretches for a long period of time, some members who voted for it, may have left so perhaps a regular turnover of polls is still needed


that said, a maximum amount of running tournaments allowed should be binned or maybe increased (so were not running in circles).








Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 04:31:04 PM »
Just to revive this, a quick thought.
Maybe, if possible, we could utilize a new section between Discussion and Signups under the name 'Polls', where the above poll thread could be put. When the host is ready to move onto signups, they can submit a Poll thread in the same way Discussion threads are currently done, at which point the rules are checked.
Major league hosts could bypass this system completely, possibly.


As a secondary idea, as I know Display Tournaments get a little overlooked, what would be people's thoughts on running a Display Tournament adding 1 (at maximum, even if you run 20) to your Tournament Hosting number




EDIT: And as another idea - what would people say about a +1rep or something after a successful tournament?
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Offline helloface

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 05:19:11 PM »
EDIT: And as another idea - what would people say about a +1rep or something after a successful tournament?
People already do that. If you want to, you can just do it yourself. I don't really think it needs to be a rule.
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Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2013, 03:06:43 AM »
EDIT: And as another idea - what would people say about a +1rep or something after a successful tournament?
People already do that. If you want to, you can just do it yourself. I don't really think it needs to be a rule.


Oh okay smartypants, have you got any better ideas for encouraging people to run tournaments? Because that's what I'm asking for.
It wouldn't be a 'rule' anyway, as I said, just encouragement.
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Offline Thyrus

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2013, 05:30:34 AM »
I was thinking about the display tournaments a while back.
Those tournaments aren`t official right? I mean they are for pure entertainment while we have the regular tournaments are for a competetive reason. I would change the rule that you can`t ask others for robots. Since this is not official it must be clear to the person that lends his or her robots that there is a chance that the tournament might never will be finished. If a robot is lend, the original builder should be mentioned either in the video or in its description. I was about to make such a tournament a while ago with some bots NFX and DSC gave me like 2 years ago but this rule kinda got in the way.

Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2013, 06:46:04 AM »
I agree, however there may be an issue with people taking a display tournament as a serious, official tournament - I'm not sure what could be done to differentiate the 'winner' of a DT from a real tournament winner.
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Offline Thyrus

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2013, 07:09:13 AM »
Well. the winner of the official tournaments gets mentioned on the wikipage. the only other thing would be goodies such as the prizes that have been given out 4 years ago. but prizes take time to make. the fastest thing to do is the reputation but I don`t know how statisfying this is to people

Offline JoeBlo

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2013, 08:39:12 AM »
Originally it wasn't a rule for Display tournaments.. the problem we found was people who got banned were using it as a loophole to run more tournaments.

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Oh okay smartypants, have you got any better ideas for encouraging people to run tournaments? Because that's what I'm asking for.
It wouldn't be a 'rule' anyway, as I said, just encouragement.


In the current environment I think a "less is more" approach is needed


Rather then more rules, systems, forum sections, etc I feel it could become more simplistic to raise the interest in tournaments again.

Offline HurricaneAndrew

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2013, 08:53:55 AM »
I think there should be a rule stating that you cannot run a display tournament if you're already working on an official tournament. I've seen tournament hosts running display tournaments when they should be focusing on their official tournament.

Same goes with stuff in the Other Games section, but I don't know how you ciuld regulate that type of thing. I don't know how many times I've seen Badnik (just an example) running tournaments, mods, AI packs and crap in Other Games all at once. I just feel that things would get in the way of each other.

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Offline Probably Rob

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2013, 09:04:58 AM »
I was able to do both my display and main, on both occasions.

Offline Badnik96

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2013, 09:21:04 AM »
I don't know how many times I've seen Badnik (just an example) running tournaments, mods, AI packs and crap in Other Games all at once. I just feel that things would get in the way of each other.

procrastination is a wonderful thing XD

but I've learned my lesson about that kind of stuff (and no the GTM Cup probably won't be coming back).

TBH I don't like the interest poll. While we've had a few tourney flops in the past (Wolfsbane's Twisted Metal tourney and Lightning S' two tourneys, where half the entries were byebots), we barely have enough tourneys now to justify the current poll, so while an interest poll could have worked well back when the minor league poll was introduced, I don't think it's a good idea now, as it just slows down tournaments even more.



Originally it wasn't a rule for Display tournaments.. the problem we found was people who got banned were using it as a loophole to run more tournaments.


IIRC Fotepx never got banned? And Sparkey could never AI in the first place XD

Offline helloface

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Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2013, 09:29:59 AM »
EDIT: And as another idea - what would people say about a +1rep or something after a successful tournament?
People already do that. If you want to, you can just do it yourself. I don't really think it needs to be a rule.


Oh okay smartypants, have you got any better ideas for encouraging people to run tournaments? Because that's what I'm asking for.
It wouldn't be a 'rule' anyway, as I said, just encouragement.
Wow, I was just stating my opinion. Why does that get me downrepped.
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Offline JoeBlo

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2013, 10:09:34 AM »
IIRC Fotepx never got banned? And Sparkey could never AI in the first place XD

It was Sparkles who was the main offender I think?

People evading the systems too was a significant problem at the time

TBH I don't like the interest poll. While we've had a few tourney flops in the past (Wolfsbane's Twisted Metal tourney and Lightning S' two tourneys, where half the entries were byebots), we barely have enough tourneys now to justify the current poll, so while an interest poll could have worked well back when the minor league poll was introduced, I don't think it's a good idea now, as it just slows down tournaments even more.

Basically I think the situation is, tournaments start up needs to be fast tracked.. less polls, approval systems and restrictions (including relaxing the time constraints a little)

However, as you outlined, tournaments lacking much interest are what we need to discourage now

Offline cephalopod

Re: Tournament Rule Change Discussion
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 02:18:16 PM »
Yeah, I agree with speeding the process up (hence we need to ditch the periodic vote for something easier and more frequent) and also with the fact that we need enough restriction to stop tournaments going through that won't work/don't have interest - most suggestions would be quicker than the current system, we just need to agree on one.
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