Author Topic: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?  (Read 3595 times)

Offline kill343gs

What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« on: April 23, 2018, 09:13:45 PM »
This is not a sales pitch.

This is an honest, difficult question, coming from a guy that's running out of answers.

I want to know what we're not doing enough of, what we're doing too much of, and what we can just flat out do better for YOU.

I don't want to hear about how GTM is 'toxic,' because it isn't. We've worked very hard to make sure of that.
I don't want to hear that people don't want to play ra2 anymore, because that isn't true. We've recently had 2 absolutely massive tournaments kick off. Where they're going is a separate matter. More on that later.

I want ideas.

Here's where we're at right now.
1. We've made a mess of the tournaments section. There's no reason for people to bother hosting an official tournament right now. We've done a terrible job in this section for too long. I don't blame anybody in particular, just a lot of shortsightedness. Expect tournaments to roll back to a system similar to before, albeit simplified significantly. Oh, and any tournament over a certain size will require backup hosts. This much is not up for debate.

2. Similarly, the challenge board is in rough shape, and isn't used much. Expect this to get rolled in with tournaments in some way, sharing staff and becoming simplified.

3. The image uploader system isn't great. I'll be talking with apanx about what our options are going forward.

4. We have a lot of inactive staff. I would like to move those no longer around or participating into retired roles, and potentially filling out some slots to make sure we have more coverage.

Beyond that, I want to know what you think. Consider this an open forum for discussion. I'm all ears.


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Offline BDBlu

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 09:27:51 PM »
Honestly I would like to learn how to ai.  I went through all the links and read all the documents, but it's challenging.  Something like a clear video tutorial would be nice.

An example just now, I did all the step by step, but it still doesn't work.  I have missed something, but since the document doesn't say if this happens, then do this.

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Offline Fracture

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 09:35:18 PM »
Which part is it that you're running out of answers for? I'm fine with everything as it is right now; we're a small, niche community with small, niche discussions. Sure, those things you mentioned would be nice to have, but what exactly is the problem that's making you feel like you have so much responsibility here?

Offline Philippa

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 09:37:35 PM »
1. As the most prolific tournament host on here, I don't think I've ever had any problems with the tournament system personally. I'd be interested in hearing what your concerns are, though. Also regarding official tournaments, I was under the impression that an admin would have to run it for it to be properly official like BBEANS or GTMCS.

2. The Challenge Board moving into a subcategory in the tournament section is a pretty straightforward and sensible idea to me, but the main issue is that people just don't wanna host challenges so some kind of minor incentive for it would be a possible idea?

3. Agreed, honestly. Using [img] tags is a lot easier to work with but I understand why Apanx tried changing things.

4. Also in favour of retiring some people, I've gotta get that Forum Princess title somehow. :cool: Going forward will the new picks for coloured names and higher ranks be the same system of "Eh, they seem good enough." or will there be more communication about that sorta thing?

Offline Dreamcast

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 10:21:54 PM »
If you want GTM to grow (I think that would be good for you right now tbh), then GTM needs more things for people to do with RA2. When a website has more avenues for people, then more kinds of people show up, and their friends and counterparts will come along with them over time. We'd have plenty more tournament, showcases and other chit-chats if our new member numbers hadn't gone down for 5 years now.

I acknowledge that generating activity is hard. Look at the Challenge Belt. For many eligible builders, entry into the contest required trying new things. Not entering the event is somewhat excusable, because that "new" thing was another playstyle, but the turnout is still a bit embarrassing and an example of something that would've gone better on a larger site. Also, BOTM sure seems smaller now that only 2 to 4 people enter per month. However, given time and a chance, GTM can get big enough to prevent that from happening.

Offline Badger

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 10:56:32 PM »
Firstly, I'm super glad that we have a staff member voicing concerns about the state of the community and suggesting improvements, while asking for feedback. This kind of transparency is important and as a community member it's very encouraging to see.

Honestly I think that the death of the challenge board is partly responsible for the death of all the 'competitive' (read: Non-IRL) metas. The switch from the (admittedly seriously flawed) title and informal challenge system to the more restrictive challenge belt system was a pretty huge failure, I think that that's pretty clear to see right now.

What do I want to get from GTM? Honestly I personally don't feel any reason to open RA2 right now. Showcases get very little feedback, and the feedback you do get is usually sub-10 word compliments with no real feedback or substance (I'm not sure what the staff can do about this; I certainly don't have any solutions in this regard). Tournaments are all pretty samey and full of re-entries, and there aren't many new tournaments. And as an average host, there's not much to motivate me to put in the effort outside of being able to view the battles themselves. And the challenge section seems deader than dead to me.

I also think we should reconsider the position of BOTM in the community. It's basically a joke at this point and has been for a while.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline Gulden

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 11:03:13 PM »
Literally everything Badger said.

Personally, a thing that could revive this site is either an easy way to mod (OBJ to GMF converter) or a new game (Robot Rumble 2.0?)
I have several opinions.

Offline freeziez

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 11:03:18 PM »
Firstly, I'm super glad that we have a staff member voicing concerns about the state of the community and suggesting improvements, while asking for feedback. This kind of transparency is important and as a community member it's very encouraging to see.

Honestly I think that the death of the challenge board is partly responsible for the death of all the 'competitive' (read: Non-IRL) metas. The switch from the (admittedly seriously flawed) title and informal challenge system to the more restrictive challenge belt system was a pretty huge failure, I think that that's pretty clear to see right now.

What do I want to get from GTM? Honestly I personally don't feel any reason to open RA2 right now. Showcases get very little feedback, and the feedback you do get is usually sub-10 word compliments with no real feedback or substance (I'm not sure what the staff can do about this; I certainly don't have any solutions in this regard). Tournaments are all pretty samey and full of re-entries, and there aren't many new tournaments. And as an average host, there's not much to motivate me to put in the effort outside of being able to view the battles themselves. And the challenge section seems deader than dead to me.

I also think we should reconsider the position of BOTM in the community. It's basically a joke at this point and has been for a while.

combining these two thoughts, maybe instead of a BOTM open build we could show good bots from other peoples' showcases? would also give more incentive to update your own showcase
obligatory battlebots 5 comment

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Offline FOTEPX

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2018, 12:30:14 AM »
Very good question, and you're absolutely right to ask it.

I much preferred using the old Image Uploader. It was simple & clean, did everything it ought to, and simply worked.

To me, as a part-time browser, the forum itself is in a very healthy spot, as far as management of it is concerned. I don't know much about the tournament side of things because I haven't hosted one in six years, but things look good to me.

The option to add your Discord username to your Profile would be nice. Right now I'm having to use Ventrilo and specify that "No, it's not Ventrilo, it's Discord".

The RA2WIKI is never used. Archive it or delete it outright.

Other than that, the only thing really left to do is bring new people in, but they seem to be filtering in of their own accord, as always. It's a niché board, you can't expect a massive audience.

Anything else? Uuh, yeah, Challenges should just be stupid, for fun things, not really needing to be moderated. The fact that you're challenging one person in specific is pretty silly already, so just make it so people can have fun with it. x3

Oh yeah, there's another thing! The reputation system saw a lot more use and dictated people's actual scores a lot better when there was only an hour-long delay before you could next upvote/downvote someone and when everyone could use the system. I think that'd be a good thing to return to.

BOTM's stupid, and everybody views it as a joke-thing. Perhaps, instead of being it's own separate, gated off thing, it should *sharp inhale* automatically have everyone's bots from their showcases entered in the shuffle, and then everyone votes from there? I know, I know, that'll be a massive admin headache, especially when people don't give their bots names, but other than removing it outright, that's the only way I see to make BOTM worth anything any more.

Honestly, Discord's blown the use for a separate forum out of the water in a lot of ways. I saw Plerco talking about how most people use the Discord to get their RA2 social interactions done, and I can see why. I'd say, integrate this with Discord more tightly, provide a link to the GTM Discord somewhere on the forum, and advertise it as the main GTM chatroom or something like that, so the two communities aren't splintered.


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Offline cephalopod

Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2018, 11:04:44 AM »
In terms of showcase inactivity, would it be possible to implement a post-based karma system? People can give a bot a 'thumbs up' or something. At the end of each month or week, a gallery of top 'thumbed' bots can be published, featuring (in theory) something from each meta? If I was able to access some form of data sheet for each months posts and their ratings I'd be quite happy to put these presentations together.
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Offline TheOrcCorp

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2018, 11:09:51 AM »
In terms of showcase inactivity, would it be possible to implement a post-based karma system? People can give a bot a 'thumbs up' or something. At the end of each month or week, a gallery of top 'thumbed' bots can be published, featuring (in theory) something from each meta? If I was able to access some form of data sheet for each months posts and their ratings I'd be quite happy to put these presentations together.

Fantastic idea!
GTM 2017 Awards - Most Unique Bots (shared with DSC) and Most Enthusiastic Member!
GTM 2018 Awards - Friendliest and Kindest/Most Unique Bots/Best Tournament 2018/Best Tournament by Editing/Best Tournament by Matches!
GTM 2019 Awards - Friendliest and Kindest(how)/Favourite Staff Member/Hall of Fame Inductee

Offline Gulden

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2018, 11:22:04 AM »
In terms of showcase inactivity, would it be possible to implement a post-based karma system? People can give a bot a 'thumbs up' or something. At the end of each month or week, a gallery of top 'thumbed' bots can be published, featuring (in theory) something from each meta? If I was able to access some form of data sheet for each months posts and their ratings I'd be quite happy to put these presentations together.
I feel like this could be a perfect replacement for BOTM.  Heck, we could keep the acronym.  Just call it Bots of the month.
I have several opinions.

Offline Hoppin

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2018, 11:52:33 AM »
1. The tourney section, I agree is a mess, and there's no real incentive to host a tournament and it's also a large time commitment, that I think a lot of people just don't have. And Im glad it's getting a reform in this sense. I'd also like to see some more incentives for hosting tournaments as I don't see the 'Mega Host' title as enough for multiple successful tournaments. Maybe an achievement system would help, but overall I'm not certain. I think it'd be something that a community would have to take into their own hands, by making an effort to host tournaments given they have to time. Which leads me to focus on the 'Tutorials and Tips' section. It's rather messy, I've looked for things like AI, BFE and other tips and it's very difficult to find (for AI, I find that Madiaba's is the current best followed by IanH's guide on AI for newbies), there's is a Tutorial Index, which I just found as I'm writing this and I think this should be bold on the tips thread and super obvious (Unless I'm the only one who hasn't noticed it). In conclusion, I feel that giving players incentive and giving the proper tools in learning to AI, would be the best start in allowing and encouraging players to host tournaments more frequently.

Complete Tutorial Index - https://gametechmods.com/forums/tutorials-and-tips/complete-tutorial-index/msg665185/#msg665185
Ianh's AI for newbies - https://gametechmods.com/forums/tutorials-and-tips/how-to-ai-for-newbies-(with-pics!)/

2. Whilst the challenge board has seen more activity in recent times and the regular challenge system seems fine to me at the moment. I would personally remove the limiting factor that disallows people to enter multiple challenges at once. I know personally I have 3 challenges, 1 waiting for a video, 1 waiting to be approved and 1 looking to start, that would be moved forward quicker if this rule wasn't in place. I understand how it prevents challenge spam and unfinished challenges for happening, but I think will this new 'generation?' of player we haven't seen many unfinished challenges without reason. I also think that an achievement system would work perfectly for the rankings, etc. you could have icons showing your current rank on the challenge board, any records set (fastest KO, most wins in a row, etc.).

The challenge belt, I understand the reasoning behind it, but it cuts out a large amount of the playerbase due to the meta's chosen for it, whilst they do present a set of rules that have little to dispute over, this could also be achieved with the same host each time, this would mean that the entries are consistent with what's allowed and what isn't. However, ultimately I'd like a challenge belt for each meta, reminiscent of the old title system that was used.

If it must be kept in standard metas, this is what I propose. (Taken from Challenge Belt - January 2018)


3. I actually have no issue with the current image system, but it's more complicated compared to the last one so I think reverting back would be fine and better for the community.

4. Yea, this is fine. (I'll take proper mod if you're handing them out :V)

Own opinions.
I personally think the GTM discord should be displayed more, it's a really good way to interact with the community, and I think even if it's a section on the front page, it'd be really helpful in making people aware of the discord itself. Maybe a discord widget, showing chatterbox or who's online would be a good idea.

Interacting with other communities, mainly Oota, ARC and Gwars. I think interacting with those people is hugely beneficial.

This
The option to add your Discord username to your Profile would be nice. Right now I'm having to use Ventrilo and specify that "No, it's not Ventrilo, it's Discord".

This too. Give's people a reason to make splashes' etc and really make the showcase look pretty.
In terms of showcase inactivity, would it be possible to implement a post-based karma system? People can give a bot a 'thumbs up' or something. At the end of each month or week, a gallery of top 'thumbed' bots can be published, featuring (in theory) something from each meta? If I was able to access some form of data sheet for each months posts and their ratings I'd be quite happy to put these presentations together.

Also I think having a lot of the discord emotes as emotes on the forums and vice versa would be a good idea.
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Offline Meganerdbomb

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2018, 12:28:52 PM »
Dude,  GTM is fine.
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline Dark-Al

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2018, 01:19:19 PM »
Sorry if I'm late to the party. But I do agree with most of the points that Kill put forward along with most other opinions that other users have. However I do have some own opinions on what I would like to see on this forum.

To start of the wiki: The wiki itself isn't being used for really anything. Often, I don't normally see a lot of users using it for any such use expect for posting memes and unnecessary edits, mainly including the time when I got into an edit war on the wiki, all because one user was constantly spamming in their name into the notable tournament host section of the notable users page, without asking the admins first. The worst part about this was that when I try to fix the page because of my urge to solve the problem, I have one of the forum moderator on the discord, joining in onto the side of immature user, poorly joking about "Can you stop spamming the wiki!".  To be honest if the wiki is going to be like this, it's best to take FOTEPX suggestion: Just achieve the wiki. Barely anyone uses it and when they do, what would happen is the above.

The Challenge board is a bit of a mess I agree with many on this. But the point I'm making isn't on the lines of the lack of use of the challenge board, but mainly in the overall moderation and lack of motivation on hosting a challenge. The main board moderators are most of the time inactive and sometimes, most active challenges that haven't been resolved in a couple of months, were just left for that time before one of the board moderators take action to lock the thread and give a disqualification out. Personally, when the challenge board gets more active when more users are encouraged, I would like to see a overhaul on the staff for this board and give the roles for board moderation over to more active users, so those users can respond more quickly to challenges that been completed, handing out user disqualifications and be willing to host challenges if no one else steps in.  As for the hosting itself, the problem is the same as with the tournament hosting problem. While a challenge board match can be less time consuming then a full on tournament, no one has any motivation of hosting. This is the result of the point Hoppin made, which was that the difficulty of new users getting into AIing, but I also believe that because of the lack of any proper challenges, no one is going really feel like that they really want to host. So, my solution is to try and possibly encourage users to use the challenge board a little more often. Sure we have the challenge belt, but with the current position of how the belt is formed, I doubt anyone will be willing enough to have a challenge.


The tutorial section needs a bit of updating. With new tutorials being created every so often including a tutorial on exporting OBJ files through OBJRA2 and then into RA2, it would be nice if such newer tutorials were included in the tutorial index, to mainly benefit new users who need to know some of the basics of modding files, as well older users who want to learn something new and updated, without both types of users needing to scroll through pages of forums on the board to find the tutorial they need. Also on the same section, I do agree with Hoppin again, I do feel that some of the older tutorials need updating for users trying to get into AI and such a better starting point in making AI packs or starting their tournaments, such as asking an experience users to make a step by step video guide of something just to give a user a better chance at making a start in the area.

I would a lot more points about the forums, but I feel the points that I put down will be enough for now. But when I have some more points to make, I'll be posting them here.

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2018, 01:53:07 PM »
hey gamers, if you didn't have enough novels to read in this thread well youre in luck because im adding another one
im gonna be very blunt and theres gonna be alotta typos so if you go stupid after reading than you know who to blame

(trigger warning)














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Offline 09090901

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2018, 06:03:20 PM »
I guess I'll bite. most of what i have has already been said

1. I agree with reverting the tournament system back to the way it was is the best move. I feel that the personal tournament section has no real use anymore, and I would say it can safely be deleted. Right now it's essentially no different than the tournament section since neither board has any proper moderation or regulation. I agree with a system that better rewards hosts for their efforts, but I also think a system to punish repeat offenders shouldn't be out of the question. I know we we're planning on adding an awards system to the forum, perhaps other members might be interested? It could also be used for more than just the tournament section, for instance say BOTM or the challenge board.

2. The challenge board in general just needs to be loosened. Having topics set to approval only, only being allowed to be a part of one challenge at a time, and requiring a host to post a topic are flat out unnecessary for a board that is just supposed to be casual fights.

As for the challenge belt, I think it has potential, but it needs change. The whole "you need to have had an active challenge in the last 3 months" or whatever isnt helping, and I feel that an IRL bracket would be a decent addition. My idea was to have the IRL challenge belt be a BOTM style vote with all bots being anonymous and being sent to whoever the host was and then the host a community vote on who the winner was. There wouldn't be any fancy splashes of anything, just the bots and a poll to vote for your pick. Afterwards there would be an unofficial bracket for fun, but this wouldn't count towards who the challenge belt winner is.

3. For most of us I don't think the image system is that bad. Yes, I don't think anyone prefers it over the old one, but I understand why it needed to be changed. My only complaint is that it's a definite turn off I feel for new users as it really isn't all that well explained outside of a single topic.

4. An idea I had was maybe to have a system similar the UN security council. Have a core staff team, and each month you could promote trustworthy members to a temporary "trial" position, and then switch that user out every month with someone else. It might be out there, but I think it could be a good way to ease the divide between regular users and staff as well as help get a feeler for potential staff candidates.

Lastly, I agree with the sentiments that the GTM discord should be more prominent. It is what other communities base their views of us on, and its what most of us base our views on. Forums themselves are a relic of the past, killed off by subbreddits, and what remains were left were buried by discord. Like people mentioned earlier, the image system is a pain, and in general most discord functions are easier to use and mange for both the user and staff. If nothing else, from what I've seen is that most newer and more active users tend to prefer discord, while people who prefer the forum tend to contribute rarely and/or are borderline inactive. By no means am I trying to attack anybody for their activity, but I think it shows that the discord should be the primary focus, and that the discord is our best chance at gaining new members. Especially with how connected communities are nowadays.

I have a few other thoughts, but I feel those would be best shared privately (assuming you would still be willing to talk or w/e)
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Offline Asbestosstar

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 06:40:33 PM »
I honestly like it how it is, in some ways

My Tournament is Big Rigs and The only reason i have not got to hosting it is because of time and not knowing how to fully make an arena.
I think what we should do is have a section Where someone can ask someone to do  stuff like that for them. We can even accept money.

I would also like a Playground section or Trash or Be Trashed Section,  in this section there would be virtually no laws or administrator exept for a few.

For the Inactive stuff, i think we should put that all in a section called archives, so we can look at is as a memory and not look dead.

A thing for the hosting, i think there should be less of an approval process and more of a free for all, who cares if a tournament failes.

I think we should also in general have less administration, but lots of yall probably know that and disagree. We do not wanna become like ARC(I think its like 1 staff for every 5 active memebers). But lets not fight over this.
I also would like more tolerance torward flaming.

All in all, ithink GTM is ok though
IN General the hostings fin IMO accept the things i mentioned, most people dont even enter all the tournaments anyway.
Also we should make it so any member can give KARMA
and have less admin approved boards only
and have more people have more freedom , such as when i tryed to host BOTM
P.S I think we should unban HA and LRA2
We should also make it so if the host or GTM rules do not cover something, its perfectly legal

I know lots of yall will disagree with my libratrain and Capitalist ideas, but lets not fight rite now, if you have a problem jus PM me.

Offline Fracture

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2018, 07:07:45 PM »
So is the concern here just that we're not active enough? It's hard to follow all the different things people are discussing and what the big issue is that we're even trying to solve. Personally, I guess I don't really see an actual problem; not every community is meant to be super active, and being less active doesn't have to mean anything bad.

Regardless, what I would advise is to have better incentives that recognize people for their hard work. RA2 is a weird kind of game that's about being creative and sharing your stuff as much as having "fun" building a bot. I think something like an organized, official-looking system that recognizes and/or archives our tournament winners and hosts would be good. Everyone wants a taste of the glory when we achieve something we're proud of! Lots of people already do this in their signatures. Taking part in the community can be a lot of work and it should be encouraged with rewards that are more concrete.

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Re: What can Gametechmods as a community do for you?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2018, 08:53:08 PM »
Lastly, I agree with the sentiments that the GTM discord should be more prominent. It is what other communities base their views of us on, and its what most of us base our views on. Forums themselves are a relic of the past, killed off by subbreddits, and what remains were left were buried by discord. Like people mentioned earlier, the image system is a pain, and in general most discord functions are easier to use and mange for both the user and staff. If nothing else, from what I've seen is that most newer and more active users tend to prefer discord, while people who prefer the forum tend to contribute rarely and/or are borderline inactive. By no means am I trying to attack anybody for their activity, but I think it shows that the discord should be the primary focus, and that the discord is our best chance at gaining new members. Especially with how connected communities are nowadays.
outdated or not, the ability to save posts permanently is what matters in the end.. it's basically a complete waste to show bots on discord because of it
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