Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187722 times)

Offline powerrave

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2180 on: March 14, 2020, 04:49:06 AM »
Hey guys,

We got hit with coronavirus here.  I will still be checking in periodically but development might be slow for a bit.
Best to take it easy man. Health is more important.
"Always be yourself, unless you're a loser"


Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2181 on: March 18, 2020, 07:27:20 AM »
I'm using 75% in Feb 16th, but have no idea how low in recent builds cuz the damage is kinda weird.

Also for the new bleeding edge, the motors don't work right.
ME0708 is like this
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  
And pancake-etek spins up even much slower than TP100 brushless (spinner 1 is brushless, and spinner 2 is PE)
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

Fixed!  I had a typo and accidentally set the max RPM to 18 instead of 1800.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2182 on: March 19, 2020, 04:01:06 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2183 on: March 19, 2020, 04:14:49 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2184 on: March 19, 2020, 04:45:50 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2185 on: March 19, 2020, 05:13:46 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2186 on: March 19, 2020, 05:25:05 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...
On a 10:1 ratio it cant even swing. Maybe a dedicated axe motor that has high torque like beta used? (well beta used an etek that was geared), the burst motors launch bots up in the air

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2187 on: March 19, 2020, 06:08:36 PM »
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...
On a 10:1 ratio it cant even swing. Maybe a dedicated axe motor that has high torque like beta used? (well beta used an etek that was geared), the burst motors launch bots up in the air

Yup.  Those pneumatics systems are way overpowered.

For reference, an Etek-style motor is 8-9 inches in diameter.  The A40-300 is only 4 inches in diameter.  When you see them in person there is no comparison.  Maybe the Pancake Etek for axes once I fix the max RPM?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2188 on: March 19, 2020, 06:18:35 PM »
Oh!  I forgot to ask:  what is the mass of the axe?

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2189 on: March 19, 2020, 06:22:24 PM »
Oh!  I forgot to ask:  what is the mass of the axe?
Mass of the axe is 6 kilos, Pancake etek is too big to fit it in. Im pretty sure something is off with the gearing torque tho

Offline min440303

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2190 on: March 19, 2020, 06:39:53 PM »
Besides axes, lifters don't work well either. An F30 geared at 10:1 cannot even easily lift a 4kg bar itself, not to speak of lifting a 110kg bot. For many spinners as well, their selfrighting mechanism becomes useless.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2191 on: March 20, 2020, 08:20:53 PM »
Hey guys,

I'm in the tank at the moment.  With the coronavirus in full swing I am frantically trying to finish one of our free educational resources so that kids can learn chemistry from home.  Its called ChemThink, and a few of them are still stuck in their Flash versions from 2003:

https://www.simbucket.com/welcome-to-simbucket/

I'm hoping to get these conversions done over the next few weeks so I can get back to game dev.  A few of the team members are continuing to work while I'm gone, so hopefully you will see an update or two.

My priority is to get the electric system done so we can get the ME0708 and brushless motors back up to 48 volts where they belong.  24 volts is just so wah wuh.

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2192 on: March 31, 2020, 11:50:06 AM »
So, an idea kept me up last night, and I decided to write everything down so that I could tell you guys. Hopefully it makes sense and doesn’t sound like gibberish.
I think I might have a solution in regards to damage physics and weapon impacts.
Issue: for the Feb 16 build, nonstops if not all impacts cause the weapon to stop moving completely, yet the impacts seem a bit weak. As for the newer builds, all impacts are big impacts and are extremely unrealistic.
Potential solution: use a randomizer to determine how damage is dealt and how they impact. The way the probabilities for each type of hit depend on the shape, type and size of the spinner. Something like a deep six will have a big hit probability of around 90 to 95%, small hit of 5%, and grind of 0%, whereas something like a Minotaur Will have A big hit of 10%, small hit of 20%, and grind of 70%. The potential maximum impact (PMI) will be determined based on the rpm and weapon mass. Something like Whiplash would have a low PMI, whereas a Tombstone or a SOW will have a very high PMI. Robots with a higher PMI will have quicker motor fatigue, meaning it will take longer to spin up after big hits. Now, about the 3 types of hits: Grinding will wear down armor but will not be able to break it, it will also cause it’s opponent to have slowly increased motor fatigue and with steel to steel will create lots of sparks. Small hits will pop its opponent away, will weaken larger parts, and will be able to break off parts with a low maximum hp. Big hits will be the only one that can break off large chunks of armor. Now you might ask, “why shouldn’t I just make the weapon have the highest big hit % and PMI possible?” The answer is simple: higher big hit %= quicker motor fatigue and higher PMI= more self-damage. Making a robot with a lower big hit % and PMI won’t dish out insane hits, but it will be much more reliable and will be more likely to survive a whole 3 minutes in a match against an anti-spinner.
If anyone needs me to explain, simplify, or expand on anything, just ask. I will do the best of my abilities to provide an answer.
Accomplishments:

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2193 on: April 16, 2020, 10:18:55 AM »
ChemThink is DONE.  It has been 4 years and 2 months since I started working on it.  Oof.  I feel like I just finished my dissertation.  If anyone is curious and wants to learn chemistry (or any other science stuff), here is ChemThink, along with everything else:

https://www.simbucket.com

The really good news is that my docket is now clear to work on the game! :)

@tashic and @WhamettNuht have been working on the new electrical distribution system.  As it stands right now it will take some time to wrap your head around if you have never worked with electrical stuff before.  I'm hoping that it will be a little more straightforward after we let you guys play with it a bit and make changes.  Once this is in place, you will be able to do things like over-volting a motor for higher torque and speed, at the risk of overheating.

I know you guys have been waiting a long time for a tournament-ready build.  I'm thinking that it isn't worth trying to get the electrical distribution system in place for that.  Instead, I would like to do a build where all of the motors are set at their rated voltages, but with their real-life torque values and the overheating model in place.  This will allow MUCH higher ungeared torques for the brushed motors for a fraction of a second.  If you stall your motors at full current for longer than that, your motors will overheat.  Brushless motors will need to be geared down a lot to be able to match the torque of their brushed equivalents, but you won't have to worry about overheating once either type of motor is properly geared.

Here are two real-life resources that were are basing our model on:

http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm
http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html

What else needs to be done?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2194 on: April 16, 2020, 10:29:50 AM »
Here's a screenshot showing our current mockup of the electrical distribution system.  It doesn't do anything yet, but you can make and break connections and get information from the components:

 
Screenshot 2020-04-16 10.27.05.png



Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2195 on: April 16, 2020, 10:54:12 AM »
Even tho i am not an electrician, this seems pretty straightforward so im keeping forward to it!

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2196 on: April 17, 2020, 06:10:20 AM »
Even tho i am not an electrician, this seems pretty straightforward so im keeping forward to it!

I'm pretty much the same - when it comes to robot building my strength is in fabrication rather than the workings, but I think it's still a good system we have!

It was confirmed for me when Ray Billing's sent cjbruce and myself an electrical diagram of Tombstone and it was essentially the same as what we have going on haha!

Hope you're all looking forward to upcoming builds :)

And more importantly - I hope you're all staying safe!
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2197 on: April 24, 2020, 01:21:20 PM »
I'm suddenly wondering about an idea for things like hubmotors and axle bots. Would it potentially be viable to have alternative versions of motors and gearboxes where the game considers the axle to be the root part, and the main body the axle?

So you place the gearbox on the robot by its axle, then place the motor on the end of the gearbox.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2198 on: April 24, 2020, 07:51:07 PM »
I find myself thinking about this a lot.  As I’m going through and recalibrating motors, I’m constantly thinking things like “How would this work with a crushed motor instead of a brushless motor?”

Offline SkullKid2000

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2199 on: May 02, 2020, 03:47:40 PM »
To the developer: I've got a quick question. Is it possible to import 3D models into Robot Rumble 2.0?
Best Regards,

Skull Kid