Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 72436 times)

Offline Guldenflame

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1820 on: February 16, 2020, 12:58:19 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1821 on: February 16, 2020, 02:59:57 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up
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Offline Arcane

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1822 on: February 16, 2020, 05:59:55 AM »
Okay, so I’ve had a good amount of time to play around with this build of the game and I have to say the changes to mobility with these new motors have improved drastically. Bots that drove somewhat okay in previous builds have become a lot more mobile. The AP of the Ampflow motors are a little funky but overall I’m really happy with the direction you guys are taking this. Also, the new models for the motors look great.

The LED lights are a great addition to the workshop, I was half expecting them to tank my FPS but I haven’t had any issues at all. The changes to the hot keys are greatly appreciated too.

I’m liking the new arena, especially the camera placement as it allows for some nice screenshots. I’m excited to see what can be made possible now that you guys have an arena building tool.

One thing I would like to ask is if there are any plans to remove the damage scaler from the settings? It’s a small thing but I do occasionally reduce the damage to 10% or 0% to mess around and I would miss that setting if it was removed.

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1823 on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:20 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up

I will see what I can do today. 

Guldenflame is right.  You can not expect a piece of software in the Alpha state to remain static.  If so that is bad because it means that the software has been abandoned and will never reach release and maintainance.  There are times when we are going to have to change or remove things that are going to completely invalidate some robots.  Case in point: the flail.  It is broken.  There is no easy way to get it working without a LOT of effort.  This isn't effort that is worth the time considering how many other higher-priority things we have to do.

You are also right.  It absolutely sucks to see hundreds of hours of work become deprecated by a software decision someone else made.  If there are any Flash developers still out there, they know what I'm talking about.

With that being said, I'm going to try to restore the AmpFlow motors to the way they previously worked, but hiding them in the process.  If I succeed, they will still exist in your old robot and still work, but will no longer be available in the list.  If you accidentally delete the motor, it is gone and you will need to use the new version.

Online cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1824 on: February 16, 2020, 08:30:37 AM »
I'm really enjoying this new build!  I made a couple test robots and noticed the following:

-Mobility kills are definitely a real deal now with the wheel building tools.  It doesn't take too much effort to use my bar spinner to remove tires from my 4-wheeled drum spinner to immobilize it, just like in real robot combat.

Awesome!  Its good to hear that immobility is starting to feel right.  Mobility is key to the entire fight in real life.

-I love that chassis panels can now break off.  I think it's safe to say that the health bar can go away as KOs are effected by smashing the other robot to pieces in some manner IRL.

That's what I'm thinking too.  I'm just wondering if anything should go there.  Gas?  A robot tree status showing what remains?  Nothing?


-It seems that material resilience is still pretty high compared to what I see on TV.  Shouldn't a bar spinner with 100 kJ of energy absolutely destroy polycarbonate almost regardless of realistic thickness?

I can vouch for this.  In our real-life robots, the 1/2" polycarbonate we used as side armor would just explode the instant it was glanced by a spinner.  We stopped using polycarbonate last year and haven't looked back.

-I think the bottom of the chassis should be destroyable.  Any components mounted to the destroyed bottom of the chassis go with it.  So if the bot controller is mounted to the bottom of the chassis and that panel goes away, so does the controller and the bot is KO.

Roger.  It is pretty simple to make the effect happen mechanically.  Just need to write a few lines of code.  I wanted to see how everyone feels first though.

--Building on that thought, perhaps the tree structure of building bots is too limiting in the way these things can actually be destroyed?  IRL bots keep going until they can't, either though mobility issues or complete dismemberment.  I remember seeing a battle between Warhawk and Hydra where Hydra literally dismembered Warhawk, but Warhawk's individual components kept moving based on operator inputs.  The bot got counted out because it was immobilized.  Another example was a fight between Tombstone and some kind of pushbot.  But Tombstone's bar spinner nailed a corner of the push bot and broke the bot in half diagonally.  Yeah, that bot was down for the count.

With that being said, if the way the game works could be converted from the tree structure to some kind of universal interconnectivity, the ways stuff could be destroyed would be less limiting.

The tree structure that we came up with has been 3 years and thousands of development hours in the making and is the core of the whole game.  It is a pretty sweet (and complicated) bit of tech at this point.  If we are going to change anything about it at this point I want to be darn sure it is worth it. 

@something, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Battlebots robots are actually multiple robots in a single chassis.   They use multiple people running independent transmitter/receivers, each controlling completely isolated electrical systems.  If one system breaks, the rest can still work.  Multibot battles are already in the works.  Maybe down the road we can think about making 2 multi bots into a single robot?


-How fine can destruction be made?  Is it reasonable to believe that computers can simulate panels shredding or shattering to some degree based on the materials and type if impact involved?  Realistically, panels may do more than just break off - they may be ripped in half or shattered to pieces too.  Then the bot can puke out batteries, motors, etc.

Maybe.  In a traditional game a professional artist manually goes in and creates two versions of every part, an intact one and a broken one (or multiple broken ones depending on time and budget). In our game it is a MUCH harder challenge.  YOU are the artist who made the part in the first place.  We can't put it on the players to make a bunch of broken version of parts, and developing the tool set to do this is extremely involved.  The price tag of our game will pale in comparison to the $1500/year that Adobe charges for 3ds Max.  They can hire A LOT more programmers than we can to make the tool set good, and they have been iterating since the 1990s. 

Whatever broken versions of shapes exist in our game must be made by a computer-generated algorithm.  I haven't seen/found/developed one that meets our needs yet.  Hopefully with the larger team we will be able to put our heads together and come up with something.

EDIT:  Totally destroyed this robot, but even with the side panels gone, it took awhile for the bar spinner to eviscerate it of its motors and batteries.  The damage slider is turned all the way up to 200%, so perhaps it needs to be 400%?

Motors need to be a lot less robust than they are now.  The casing on an Ampflow A28-150 is reasonably thick, but it doesn't stand a chance against a direct hit from a spinner in real life.  Thats why motors go on the inside.  (I'm looking at you, Nightmare! :))

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

New version of this arena coming soon!  The lighting only shows up correctly on a mac.  I mistakenly assumed it was working on Windows before I published it.  I promised the real version is much more colorful!

Online cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1825 on: February 16, 2020, 10:17:24 AM »
The motor reversion looks like it is working flawlessly.  I'm hoping to have a rough cut out in the next 12 hours.  The new meshes are missing for the new versions of the A40-300 and F30-400, but I'm hoping to have that fixed before we publish the build.

The old versions of the motors will no longer be visible in the list of motors, but will still exist in the game so that the old robots don't break.

My apologies to anyone caught in the middle.  This coming build will break anything you have created using the A40-300 or F30-400 with the 15February2020 build.

PS -  I fixed the mass on the ME0708.  I have no idea what happened, but it suddenly became a 35 kg motor. :)

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1826 on: February 16, 2020, 10:25:36 AM »

My apologies to anyone caught in the middle.  This coming build will break anything you have created using the A40-300 or F30-400 with the 15February2020 build.

PS -  I fixed the mass on the ME0708.  I have no idea what happened, but it suddenly became a 35 kg motor. :)
Yay so my etek thwack will survive AND be in the correct weight class!
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1827 on: February 16, 2020, 11:09:14 AM »
Ok finally back from not being home and:

Well in one hand im feeling happy about the revert, on the other i feel like i shouldnt have said about restoring the motors.
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Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1828 on: February 16, 2020, 11:48:21 AM »
Outside of the issue with the 30-400’s, the only other problems I’ve seen is when you go into a fight in the test arena, it immediately starts instead of prompting you to press a button when you’re ready. Also, I feel like the axle for the pancake etek should be a lot shorter, as the current length of it kinda defeats its purpose. The last nitpick I have is that the rims weigh nearly nothing, yet the tires get really heavy. If we could adjust the thickness of both, that’d be great.
Overall, this build is amazing, but it’s improvements have been greatly overshadowed by the incompatibility of bots in previous builds.
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Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1829 on: February 16, 2020, 01:23:23 PM »
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 02:21:30 PM by Team Lightning »

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1830 on: February 16, 2020, 02:35:33 PM »
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.

Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1831 on: February 16, 2020, 02:47:10 PM »
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?
EDIT: It doesn't have to be 100% complete.

Online cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1832 on: February 16, 2020, 02:49:12 PM »
The 16February2020 builds are up:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

[Updates in the February 16th Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed the lighting/shaders/color in the School Tournament Arena for Windows machines.

[Bug Fix] Restored the ME0708 motor mass to the correct mass of 12.7 kg.  For some reason it got set to 35 kg in the 15FEBRUARY builds.

[Reversion] MOTORS REVERTED TO THE 05FEBRUARY2020 VERSIONS - Due to the fact that the February 15th build reduced the attachment points and flipped the orientation of the motors by 180 degrees for the A40-300 and F30-400 motors, causing pretty much every robot players had previously built to suddenly become wonky, we have restored the settings of the motors for pre-existing robots.

This means you shouldn't have to go back and change your .RR2Bot files.

The old versions of the motors are still in the game, but no longer listed as an option to be selected.

IMPORTANT - Please note that this should restore any robots made with these motors in the 05FEBRUARY or earlier builds.  This also means that any robots made with the 15FEBRUARY build using the A40-300 or F30-400 will have incorrect motor positioning.  Robots made with the 16FEBRUARY build will work as normal.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1833 on: February 16, 2020, 02:49:40 PM »
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?

Why the **** are you so annoying with these requests? If its not finished, they wont release it, you know it, we know it, everyone knows it.



Ayy new build. Okay so if i used the (New motors i should be fine i guess)
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Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1834 on: February 16, 2020, 02:53:29 PM »
The 16February2020 builds are up:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

[Updates in the February 16th Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed the lighting/shaders/color in the School Tournament Arena for Windows machines.

[Bug Fix] Restored the ME0708 motor mass to the correct mass of 12.7 kg.  For some reason it got set to 35 kg in the 15FEBRUARY builds.

[Reversion] MOTORS REVERTED TO THE 05FEBRUARY2020 VERSIONS - Due to the fact that the February 15th build reduced the attachment points and flipped the orientation of the motors by 180 degrees for the A40-300 and F30-400 motors, causing pretty much every robot players had previously built to suddenly become wonky, we have restored the settings of the motors for pre-existing robots.

This means you shouldn't have to go back and change your .RR2Bot files.

The old versions of the motors are still in the game, but no longer listed as an option to be selected.

IMPORTANT - Please note that this should restore any robots made with these motors in the 05FEBRUARY or earlier builds.  This also means that any robots made with the 15FEBRUARY build using the A40-300 or F30-400 will have incorrect motor positioning.  Robots made with the 16FEBRUARY build will work as normal.
Yay! Thanks!


Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?

Why the **** are you so annoying with these requests? If its not finished, they wont release it, you know it, we know it, everyone knows it.



Ayy new build. Okay so if i used the (New motors i should be fine i guess)
They released the game and it isn't complete.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1835 on: February 16, 2020, 02:55:28 PM »
They released the game and it isn't complete.

Game and a mod tool arent the same thing lol. They cant release a thing that can potentially break the game

Not only did you request a game project which is private, but also an unfinished tool

Stop with the childish requests or mods will have to intervene
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Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1836 on: February 16, 2020, 02:56:41 PM »
They released the game and it isn't complete.

Game and a mod tool arent the same thing lol. They cant release a thing that can potentially break the game
The zip isn't affected. Just unzip it again because the arenas are in the default windows 64 data folder.
EDIT: The arenas aren't stored in a place that they would break the game.

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1837 on: February 16, 2020, 03:09:56 PM »
They released the game and it isn't complete.
If Kupa and Wham aren't in a position where they're comfortable enough to release the AMT, then it clearly isn't in a functional enough state to make high quality arenas in. It's completely reasonable to want the tool, but it's going to be released no matter what and I'm sure you can muster the patience to wait. If you want to make arenas so badly, just use blender for now, as anything you make in there can easily be imported into the AMT later on. Pestering Kupa to release the tool is not going to make it come any faster, and there is no point in releasing it when it isn't done. Just be patient.
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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1838 on: February 16, 2020, 03:14:07 PM »
They released the game and it isn't complete.
If Kupa and Wham aren't in a position where they're comfortable enough to release the AMT, then it clearly isn't in a functional enough state to make high quality arenas in. It's completely reasonable to want the tool, but it's going to be released no matter what and I'm sure you can muster the patience to wait. If you want to make arenas so badly, just use blender for now, as anything you make in there can easily be imported into the AMT later on. Pestering Kupa to release the tool is not going to make it come any faster, and there is no point in releasing it when it isn't done. Just be patient.
Yeah. IK ive gotta be patient.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1839 on: February 16, 2020, 03:47:44 PM »
Oh yeah btw, the old motors are not hidden in the motors section
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