Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development

[cjbruce]

I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns.

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

[kix]

I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns.

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

Huh nice

[cjbruce]

Big changes coming this build:

[Temporary Fix] DESTROYED ALL BLUR CYLINDERS.  These will be reenabled when the blur cylinder shape calculation bug is fixed.

[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off.  Everything now breaks off together.

[Bug Fix] Weapon Blur Cylinders shapes are recalculated when a piece of a spinning part breaks off.  NOTE - There is an orientation bug in the calculation related to the fact that the "y" axis doesn't always point up, depending on how the part was originally placed onto the robot.  This needs to be fixed in the script!!!

---------------

The blur cylinder calculation script has a bug in it.  I think most of you guys have noticed this already that sometimes the cylinder is oriented the wrong way.  This became painfully obvious now that the blur cylinder is recalculated every time a part breaks off.  With this change, spinners are now completely unplayable due to the bug.

I need to fix the bug to continue on, but for now I just disabled blur cylinders entirely.

The new build should be available sometime today.

[powerrave]

I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns.

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

[kix]

I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns.

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

I like whats powerrave is saying. I alsao noticed that when making bots that use tiny chassis, and are built from a frame, the game becomes more challenging. You need to pay attention to a lot more parts

[cjbruce]

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?

The shape does affect how the robot responds to hits, driving, and its ability to get underneath another robot.  Right now there is only an extremely rudimentary "glancing blow" calculation.  This new build will completely disable the "glancing blow" computation because it relies on the shape of the Blur Cylinder.  For this build all Blur Cylinders are destroyed.

In fact, most of the in-game damage is done via Blur Cylinders, so for this build most robots won't receive very much damage, if any.

Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

I like this idea!

[cjbruce]

The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

[kix]

The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

Tbh i dont think that the damage should be calculated by blur cylinder. I think KJ should cause damage, that way rammers might also do damage

Tested the build and i gotta say that the damage is pretty great, i can actually feel comfortable enough to do 50-100% multiplier, whereas with the blur i used only 20%

[cjbruce]

The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

Tbh i dont think that the damage should be calculated by blur cylinder. I think KJ should cause damage, that way rammers might also do damage

Tested the build and i gotta say that the damage is pretty great, i can actually feel comfortable enough to do 50-100% multiplier, whereas with the blur i used only 20%

The blur cylinder does four things, but maybe we can take a look at what we like and don't like:

1. Visual blur - a visual representation of the cylinder created by rotating an object around an axis.
2. Cylinder collider - a trigger collider that registers when something overlaps the space of the revolved object.
3. Pushout - applying impulse to the robot and whatever it hits.
4. Bite - Determining the exact amount of "bite" when the spinner hits another object.

Energy (kJ contained in the spinner) is handled by the SpinnerMassReducer script.  This script is on a different object and is not part of the blur cylinder.

If we eliminated the blur cylinder entirely, we would sacrifice #1, 2, and 3 above. 

I think the biggest deal would be #3.  Without the blur cylinder, we would be relying on the random teleportation of the rapidly spinning bar, suddenly appearing inside another object.  Pushout would occur in a completely random direction.  Instead of a stick hitting a ball forward, the stick could hit the ball at extremely high speed backward, or directly outward, or really any random direction.

It is possible to do #4 without the Blur Cylinder collider.  I would need to compute this manually via another method.

[kix]

The blur cylinder does four things, but maybe we can take a look at what we like and don't like:

1. Visual blur - a visual representation of the cylinder created by rotating an object around an axis.
2. Cylinder collider - a trigger collider that registers when something overlaps the space of the revolved object.
3. Pushout - applying impulse to the robot and whatever it hits.
4. Bite - Determining the exact amount of "bite" when the spinner hits another object.

1# From what ive heard, noone likes the blur at all
2# I need more explanations as atm i dont see it too useful
3# Is impulse really necessary
4# Im sure you could do it easily, what counts as bite?

[KupaTec]

1# From what ive heard, noone likes the blur at all
2# I need more explanations as atm i dont see it too useful
3# Is impulse really necessary
4# Im sure you could do it easily, what counts as bite?

1) the blur could do with being a bit toned down imo, but I personally like it
2) the blur circle creates a single large, non-rotating, collider object. This is a lot easier to track; is more accurate; and less resource intensive than tracking the colliders of each individual part of a spinner. This solves the issue that comes with rapid rotation (or translation) of an object within the game engine in that it never actually travels between point A and B in between frames and just teleports instantly between them. Without the cylinder anything between A and B wouldn't count as being hit and thus could "phase" through the weapon in an unrealistic fashion
3) impulse is what makes the bots fly apart on hit, essentially the simulation of force/physics
4) "bite" in this instance would be the depth of the impact on the other bot, I believe

[powerrave]

Personally I think the blur cylinder is a good way to go, but it needs to be worked on to perfect it. May not be easy, but I do think it's the better way to go. Kupa is pretty much on point I believe.

[kix]

3) impulse is what makes the bots fly apart on hit, essentially the simulation of force/physics

Well i got that wron XD

[min440303]

Maybe we can use an invisible blur

[cjbruce]

Maybe we can use an invisible blur

I think you might be right.  I personally need to see the blur cylinder so that I can tell if the shape is correct.  Once I know that it is generating correctly (it isn’t right now), then I can disable the mesh renderer.

[powerrave]

Maybe we can use an invisible blur

I think you might be right.  I personally need to see the blur cylinder so that I can tell if the shape is correct.  Once I know that it is generating correctly (it isn’t right now), then I can disable the mesh renderer.

Or perhaps (later) make an option where it can be turned on and off, or via a slider to determine how visible it is.

[CyarSkirata]

I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns.

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.

That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

Bear in mind: we're talking skirts here, not wedgelets. They were only designed to beat wedges.
The only time I can think of that a Panic Attack took a skirt hit from a horizontal (Corkscrew in S6) the skirt flew off instantly. Yes it was PA Gold, but the skirts were the same basic design.

I figure the most realistic situation for skirts like that would be that they really can't take a hit from spinners, but can withstand anything else. Perhaps if there was some way of setting them up to be completely invulnerable to damage from hits below a certain level, but beyond that threshold a single impact is enough?

[cjbruce]

Let me think on this a bit.

I finally fixed the bug of the blur cylinder shape recalculating incorrectly after a hit.

The next thing is that I would like to try to figure out some rules for weapon bite.  My goal for this is to make it very difficult to bust off a chassis shape plate if you hit it in the middle with a spinner, but relatively easier if you catch an edge.  In particular, we stopped building polycarbonate robots for this reason at our school. 

I want polycarbonate to be extremely damage resistant if you hit in the middle with a spinner but to blow apart if you catch an edge with a spinner. 

UHMW should be incredibly resistant to spinners from both edge hits and almost invulnerable from the middle, but extremely vulnerable if you hit it with a non-spinning thing like a piercer (puncture) or a hammer (deflection causing the bolts to pop out).

If someone is lucky enough to catch the edge of the skirt with their spinner then the skirt should rip off.  Otherwise, depending on the material it might not get enough bite to do anything.

[cjbruce]

New build on its way!

[Restored] Blur Cylinders have been reenabled.

[Bug Fix] Blur Cylinder shape creation now works correctly, even after a robot takes a hit.  The problem was that when the blur cylinder was recalculated after a part falls off, the shape creator was not ignoring invisible meshes.

[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.

[Bug Fix] Weapon Blur Cylinders shapes are recalculated when a piece of a spinning part breaks off.

[kix]

[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.

Does that mean that the part with the lowest hp, lets say on a spinner will cause the whole thing to fall off? If so, yikes