Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187905 times)

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1220 on: December 24, 2019, 11:24:41 PM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?

Holes.  I would love holes. *he says wistfully*

Just thinking about thinking about how to do mesh boolean subtraction makes my head hurt.  Maybe @tashic has some ideas on this.  He's smarter than I am.

Offline F1Krazy

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1221 on: December 25, 2019, 02:28:39 AM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?

Holes.  I would love holes. *he says wistfully*

Just thinking about thinking about how to do mesh boolean subtraction makes my head hurt.  Maybe @tashic has some ideas on this.  He's smarter than I am.

At the very least, some sort of "tube" shape would be nice, with a hole already in it. That way, we can construct hollowed-out flywheels and the outer ring can be one smooth, solid piece, instead of a bunch of smaller pieces that don't quite form a perfect circle.
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1222 on: December 25, 2019, 07:23:28 AM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.
Im sceptical about this. You see if a spinner is made out of small parts, that means that the spinner may not have collision where its needed, which will be a big problem. I recommended having an option to group parts together to have combined hp so that way atleast the whole weapon will fall off

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1223 on: December 25, 2019, 11:02:47 AM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.
Im sceptical about this. You see if a spinner is made out of small parts, that means that the spinner may not have collision where its needed, which will be a big problem. I recommended having an option to group parts together to have combined hp so that way atleast the whole weapon will fall off

I think that’s what he was saying - the collider would just be turned off on the part in terms of when receiving damage, but the part can still collide and will deal damage to its parent part(s).
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1224 on: December 25, 2019, 03:56:19 PM »
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more

Offline Hoppin

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1225 on: December 25, 2019, 04:05:17 PM »
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more

You actually took my idea. Cuck
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1226 on: December 25, 2019, 04:54:31 PM »
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more

You actually took my idea. Cuck
Someone had to write it :V

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1227 on: December 25, 2019, 05:19:22 PM »
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1228 on: December 25, 2019, 06:27:43 PM »
What exactly is community manager?
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Offline SagarisRA2

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1229 on: December 25, 2019, 06:39:06 PM »
What exactly is community manager?

I'm guessing it's the spokesperson of the community when it comes to feedback and voicing further improvements based on community preferences.

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1230 on: December 25, 2019, 06:45:01 PM »
Yo CJ, if you want someone to update the Twitter page, I can definitely do that on the weekends.
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1231 on: December 25, 2019, 06:55:16 PM »
Tbh i want to help, but im fine giving you feedback like we all are doing on gtm.




Now how about we talk about Chassis damage, part grouping, tube components and brushless motors?

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1232 on: December 25, 2019, 08:00:14 PM »
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(

Aauuugh!

I'm so sorry for that!  I will take a look when I have some time.  Do you notice that the wheel fixed versions of Panic Attack drive normally?

PS - These are the versions of Panic Attack that I am testing with.  They perform pretty similarly, except for the extra CPU/GPU load of the v2 version:

  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

Yeah, the wheelfixed versions have normal handling everywhere.
These are the two versions of the current tournament model, wheel-fixed and not. I was gonna remove the paintwork from them for the sake of your CPU load, but this time - which surprised me given it never worked for the previous versions of the problem - removing the decals did actually fix the in-battle handling problem. So this time the decals do undoubtedly relate to the issue.
  

At this point, I've been wondering if the problem might relate to the super-low gearing too.
So at this point, I imagine the issue would probably be mostly if not entirely fixed by the whole part grouping thing.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1233 on: December 25, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
Tbh i want to help, but im fine giving you feedback like we all are doing on gtm.




Now how about we talk about Chassis damage, part grouping, tube components and brushless motors?

Love it!  :claping

I like the order that you put them.  Chassis damage is not too intimidating.  I just need to get the plates breaking off.  I like the idea of part grouping, but it will take some UI work.  Tubes and brushless motors are a little lower on my priority list, but totally doable.

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1234 on: December 26, 2019, 12:35:31 AM »
Ah... Y'know I said less detailed Panic Attacks didn't need the wheelfix?
Only sometimes. It seems like the problem is still with either the double-gearbox or the total ratio of 125:1, because all it takes is a moderately complex opponent to push it over the edge back into passive ultra-gyro.
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Offline F1Krazy

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1235 on: December 26, 2019, 04:53:39 AM »
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!

Would it be possible for us to contribute by, for example, submitting ideas or designs for house robots? Idk how many pre-built robots you want to have in the finished game, but more is always better, and across a wide range of weapon types and weight classes.

Mind you, maybe it's too early to be thinking about stuff like that, considering the number of breaking changes that keep getting introduced...
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1236 on: December 26, 2019, 06:01:41 AM »
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!

Would it be possible for us to contribute by, for example, submitting ideas or designs for house robots? Idk how many pre-built robots you want to have in the finished game, but more is always better, and across a wide range of weapon types and weight classes.

Mind you, maybe it's too early to be thinking about stuff like that, considering the number of breaking changes that keep getting introduced...

House robot and arena design suggestions are always welcome. 

The problem with house robots is that they are currently built in the Unity editor.  They don't use the in-game Robot Workshop at all.  Every time we add a house robot, I have to make sure it works more-or-less the same as an equivalent robot in the Robot Workshop.  This is a MAJOR drain on my development time.  I always feel like I should be spending that time on making sure you can do things in the workshop and have them work in a battle scene.

That's why we need somebody working on the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  My vision for the tool is that you can build any components you want to any level of fidelity that you desire.  Because it is a workshop component, it will slot right into the workshop.  You can then use the parts to create any robot you want.

Example #1 - Lets say you want to build a tube with a hole.  Build it in the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  Then you could make robots with holes in them.
Example #2 - Imagine that you needed brushless motors.  They are incredibly powerful for their size and you really need them for the replica of your real-life beetlweight.  Build the motors you need in the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  Then you could make robots with brushless motors.
Example #3 - Imaging that there was this incredible real-life heavyweight with awesome paintwork and really cool actuating mechanisms.  Build its subassemblies in Blender, texture them in Substance Painter, then import all of the pieces into the game via the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  You could then assemble all the parts and use that amazing new robot in the game.

The bottom line is that a good RR2 Component Modding Tool could massively speed up the development of the game, and allow the community almost unlimited freedom to create new things.  We could really use a dedicated person working on it.

Any volunteers?  :bigsmile:

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1237 on: December 26, 2019, 06:11:05 AM »

Yeah, the wheelfixed versions have normal handling everywhere.
These are the two versions of the current tournament model, wheel-fixed and not. I was gonna remove the paintwork from them for the sake of your CPU load, but this time - which surprised me given it never worked for the previous versions of the problem - removing the decals did actually fix the in-battle handling problem. So this time the decals do undoubtedly relate to the issue.
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]    [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  

At this point, I've been wondering if the problem might relate to the super-low gearing too.
So at this point, I imagine the issue would probably be mostly if not entirely fixed by the whole part grouping thing.

Taking a look now...

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1238 on: December 26, 2019, 07:08:24 AM »
Tbh id like to help make the game but my unity knowledge is nearly non existent, i genuinely wouldnt know where to start

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1239 on: December 26, 2019, 07:45:12 AM »
Ah... Y'know I said less detailed Panic Attacks didn't need the wheelfix?
Only sometimes. It seems like the problem is still with either the double-gearbox or the total ratio of 125:1, because all it takes is a moderately complex opponent to push it over the edge back into passive ultra-gyro.

I'm taking a look at both now.  A few things I've noticed so far:

1. Neither of them have any Blur Cylinders at runtime.  This is good.  It means that any colliders that exist are there because you placed them there.
2. Both robots are running at roughly the same frame rate.  This is good.  It means that they appear to be processing similarly.
3. The regular version has 189 components.  The wheel fixed version has 191 components.  This is consistent with the wheel fixed version having 2 additional foam wheels.
4. Both versions are running at about 15 frames per second when in battle with one other robot in the editor.  This is uncomfortably slow for me.
5. Most of the frame time is spent doing physics calculations.

Some thoughts:

- 15 frames per second is an unpleasant experience even when things are working properly.  At this speed the AI control signals cause a ton of overshoot and the robots drive like they are intoxicated.
- I suspect that the problems you are seeing with the weird gyro might be due to the fact that the physics system frame rate is dropping so far that colliders find themselves teleported into physically impossible positions.  The system then tries to recover by applying ridiculously large impulses.
- I think the key to increasing the frame rate will be to reduce the number of colliders.  I suspect Panic Attack might have 300+ colliders.  I would like to cut the total number down to around 30.
- For a first cut, I'm going to try disabling all of the colliders for components with extremely small numbers of hit points.  If it works, then I might pursue @kix's suggestion to group components.  I would like to try the automatic fix first before we commit to building more UI and reworking the .RR2Bot file.