Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187344 times)

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1200 on: December 23, 2019, 02:46:50 PM »
The problems in my existing bots are only getting more numerous as I keep testing. :baffled:
It's impossible to make Panic Attack capable of steering fast enough to rotate 360 degrees inside 10 seconds, S3 is under reversed gravity on one side so it balances on the weapon and the other wheel at all times, and my shell-drum bot is incapable of rotating horizontally at all once it starts its weapon, and the weapon can never be stopped - even once it gets broken off completely the effect remains.

I haven't worked on any other broken bot besides Panic Attack yet, because it ideally needs to be present to defend the Parsec Rumble title, but this particular issue with Panic itself just isn't effected by anything.

I've tried different gearing, lifting the forks and skirts off the floor, replacing the back wheels with low friction alternatives, removing the back wheels entirely, removing the entire paint job to simplify the physics. No effect from any of those.

By any chance do you still have the old version of Panic Attack to compare?  I am curious to see how much things slow compared to the newer, decorated version.  I suspect that all of the bits and pieces are adding up to significant CPU load.

I have a very rough idea on how to go about “flattening” the decorations at runtime.  I’m not sure if it will work, but it might help...

Surprisingly, yes. It just occurred to me that the version I sent to Kix for the first PR Parsec tests is still on discord. This should be the first one I posted on my showcase, with the bare metal and the overly long skirts.
 
I'll do a bit of testing with it myself too, but I don't anticipate the lack of paintwork having a noticeable effect on the physics. I tried removing all the decals from a copy of the current version, and that one wasn't helped.
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Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1201 on: December 24, 2019, 12:57:09 AM »
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 02:36:29 AM by CyarSkirata »
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1202 on: December 24, 2019, 04:53:33 AM »
Oh yeah one thing that i figured out but forgot to tell.
When a wheel/weapon falls off spinning motor screws up the physics
AFAIK - When a part completely falls off, the motor will spin completely and gyro like hell.

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1203 on: December 24, 2019, 04:55:24 AM »
Oh yeah one thing that i figured out but forgot to tell.
When a wheel/weapon falls off spinning motor screws up the physics
AFAIK - When a part completely falls off, the motor will spin completely and gyro like hell.

This! My Dr Inferno rep has done it a few times. Quite comical watching him break dance lol.

Also, the gyro is messed up afterall. My drum bot Technetium is like severly gyro-ing.

Sorry to add to the list of whats wrong hahaha!
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1204 on: December 24, 2019, 06:59:59 AM »
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.

FOUND IT!

The Weapon_Blur_Cylinder was still being added to the srimech on the newer version of Panic Attack.

This shouldn't be happening, but it was.

It turns out that I was making the check to see if the motor had angle limits (instead of spinning all the way around) too early in the robot reconstruction process.

In the end I created a workaround that checks to see if the motor EVER has angular limits on its hinge joint.  If so, then it will destroy the blur cylinder.

Thank you so much for sending both robots.  It was key to figuring out what was happening.  You are amazing!

The game is building now.  I will try to get an update out amidst the holiday festivities...

PS - Hopefully this build means no more wheel fixes! :)

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1205 on: December 24, 2019, 07:03:20 AM »
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.

FOUND IT!

The Weapon_Blur_Cylinder was still being added to the srimech on the newer version of Panic Attack.

This shouldn't be happening, but it was.

It turns out that I was making the check to see if the motor had angle limits (instead of spinning all the way around) too early in the robot reconstruction process.

In the end I created a workaround that checks to see if the motor EVER has angular limits on its hinge joint.  If so, then it will destroy the blur cylinder.

Thank you so much for sending both robots.  It was key to figuring out what was happening.  You are amazing!

The game is building now.  I will try to get an update out amidst the holiday festivities...

PS - Hopefully this build means no more wheel fixes! :)

OMG I'm sorry but that is AMAZING!! It's annoyed me how axes, even thwakbots (like Toe Crusher) would get the cylinder blur! You are a legend!
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1206 on: December 24, 2019, 07:06:02 AM »
New build is building right now.  While we wait:

[Changed] When a motor breaks off, the whole assembly comes as a single rigid object.  This eliminates some weird behavior where the motor is inside the chassis connected via a hinge joint to everything else outside the chassis.  The whole mess would just bounce around bizarrely.

[Changed] When a component is broken off, it is given a random velocity.  This should help eliminate the weird floating that is occurring for broken components.

[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

[Bug Fix] Eliminated the second copy of the chassis armor plates that weren't being scaled correctly when chassis was scaled.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem with the heading slider always snapping back to zero when you came back to the Robot Workshop.

[Bug Fix] Added Steel physics material to flywheel to prevent it from sliding all over the place when it breaks off.

[Bug Fix] If a motor has limits, the blur cylinder is no longer added.

NOTE - The above is making physics run faster for lots of robots.

Offline F1Krazy

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1207 on: December 24, 2019, 07:41:28 AM »
[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

Awww. That was unironically one of my favourite bugs from RA3 :(
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Offline KupaTec

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1208 on: December 24, 2019, 08:28:03 AM »
New build is building right now.  While we wait:

[Changed] When a motor breaks off, the whole assembly comes as a single rigid object.  This eliminates some weird behavior where the motor is inside the chassis connected via a hinge joint to everything else outside the chassis.  The whole mess would just bounce around bizarrely.

[Changed] When a component is broken off, it is given a random velocity.  This should help eliminate the weird floating that is occurring for broken components.

[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

[Bug Fix] Eliminated the second copy of the chassis armor plates that weren't being scaled correctly when chassis was scaled.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem with the heading slider always snapping back to zero when you came back to the Robot Workshop.

[Bug Fix] Added Steel physics material to flywheel to prevent it from sliding all over the place when it breaks off.

[Bug Fix] If a motor has limits, the blur cylinder is no longer added.

NOTE - The above is making physics run faster for lots of robots.

The motor breaking change, alongside the blur cylinder fix is amazing. Great work!. Now go and enjoy the holidays, you madman

Offline powerrave

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1209 on: December 24, 2019, 09:19:19 AM »
Very welcome changes and fixes. Can't wait.
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Offline Arcane

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1210 on: December 24, 2019, 11:47:25 AM »
Once again, some exceptional work gone into this update.

It’s always exciting to see where this game will go.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1211 on: December 24, 2019, 01:04:30 PM »
The 24December build is up!

Look back a few posts for the bug fixes.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1212 on: December 24, 2019, 03:28:41 PM »
Great work! Now I can enter the true Panic Attack (not about a cm out for size in the X and Y axis) into Parsec Rumble 2. :D
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1213 on: December 24, 2019, 03:30:55 PM »
The 24December build is up!

Look back a few posts for the bug fixes.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

This build has really done amazing work! when are we getting Chassis damage tho? Seeing that component is falling off, chassis damage shouldnt be too hard to implement
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 04:46:16 PM by kix »

Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1214 on: December 24, 2019, 05:18:48 PM »
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1215 on: December 24, 2019, 07:00:15 PM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1216 on: December 24, 2019, 07:12:38 PM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?
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Offline CyarSkirata

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1217 on: December 24, 2019, 07:20:26 PM »
If a spinner is completely destroyed but the pulley remains, so does the blur cylinder. And it still does damage.
Seemed prudent to mention.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1218 on: December 24, 2019, 11:11:31 PM »
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(

Aauuugh!

I'm so sorry for that!  I will take a look when I have some time.  Do you notice that the wheel fixed versions of Panic Attack drive normally?

PS - These are the versions of Panic Attack that I am testing with.  They perform pretty similarly, except for the extra CPU/GPU load of the v2 version:

 
 

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1219 on: December 24, 2019, 11:15:43 PM »
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem

A thousand times yes!  I totally agree.  I think I might have a super-quick fix for this.  Just need to check the number of hit points on any shape "leaf" nodes on the tree.  If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.  That way it won't even register hits.

An incoming attack will just hit the collider of whatever the tiny bit is attached to.  Once that is destroyed, the whole thing should come off in one piece, including ALL of the tiny little attached bits.

Voila!

Again, this is just theory crafting, but I think it should work when I have a chance to sit down to it again in Unity.