Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187516 times)

Offline Badger

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #420 on: March 25, 2019, 11:42:06 AM »
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #421 on: March 25, 2019, 08:29:28 PM »
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍

Thanks for the suggestion!  I added it to the Trello list.

Now that people can create their own robots, this will start to become an issue.

Offline Serge

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #422 on: March 26, 2019, 07:33:09 PM »
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #423 on: March 28, 2019, 04:40:37 PM »


Alpha version 2 is out!!!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

We are planning to keep the Alpha builds free to the public, but be sure to sign up for the closed Beta over on http://www.robot-rumble.com

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #424 on: March 28, 2019, 05:18:25 PM »
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.
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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #425 on: March 28, 2019, 05:29:59 PM »
Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #426 on: March 28, 2019, 10:53:51 PM »
After noticing some serious Boo-Boos on today's Alpha Build 2, we have just released Alpha Build 2.01.  If you just downloaded Alpha Build 2, please head back to https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds. to get the update.

In this fix:
1. Manta, TR3, and Royal Robby's weapons are working.
2. Music works too.

Also, if you haven't already, please remember to sign up for the closed beta at www.robot-rumble.com.

Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.

Thank you for the comprehensive feedback!

We will definitely rename the game for Beta and the official launch.  The weird names should help make it clear to players that these are Alpha releases, and shouldn't be confused with what comes later.

Sorry about Windows Defender!  I always get a similar warning on my Mac.  When we get a little closer to the finished version, we will see if we can get the game whitelisted.

I think I might have solved the problem with both robots not moving.  It is intermittent, and was hard to track down as a result.  We'll see if this latest version fixes it.

I solved the problem of flippers not firing.  It turns out it was caused by an incorrect build setting.  This has been fixed.

We will definitely need to tune the axe.  It is way too heavy, and throws Robby when it fires.

Lower ground clearance -- yes!  I just lowered its center of mass, but we will need to adjust the physics model as well.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #427 on: March 28, 2019, 10:58:08 PM »
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.

I published without noticing that the exported file was using the wrong version of Unity.  This broke the music and the flippers and axes. Oops.  :ouch:  I just pushed a corrected version.

As of right now, there isn't a good way to do flippers or axes in the BotLab.  We are working on it!

Offline Badger

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #428 on: March 28, 2019, 11:12:04 PM »
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍
rr.png
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
Google Drive with my newer bots

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #429 on: March 29, 2019, 06:52:02 AM »
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍

It definitely helps!

- I noticed the automatic triggering of smart zones for player-controlled robots last night too.  Yesterday I did a complete rewrite of the control system, and this was a bug that has just popped up.  Smart zones should only do something when under AI control.  As we transition over to miniscript, this problem should go away entirely for robots you build in the workshop.  Once miniscript is working correctly, Smart Zones won't trigger anything.  They will simply send an "iAmTriggered" (or something like that) statement to miniscript, and it will be up to the user to decide what to do with that information.

-We are still working on music and sounds for everything.  It is a long process. :)

-The flippers and Royal Robby are using the same default code for triggering their weapons.  I will see what I can do to fix it this morning.

-The CO2 allowance is using an accurate physical model based on the size of the the tank, the buffer tank, the internal volume of the piping, and the stroke volume of the piston.  I assumed no friction, no gas losses (unless there is a leak), no gas flow from the storage tank during the stroke, and that the CO2 behaves as an ideal gas once it is inside the buffer volume.  The piston force even drops dynamically during the stroke when the volume grows and the gas expands adiabatically. 

With all that said, I agree.  I don't like it.  Realistic does not feel good.  Its the reason I haven't built a flipper in real life with my students.  Gas-powered things are great when they work, but they stop working for a million reasons and it is hugely frustrating.

I think I prefer the less-realistic model that you described.  Besides that it would be WAY simpler to code. :)

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #430 on: March 29, 2019, 07:05:32 AM »
I'm enjoying this version so far, the only problem being that the bot lab is super laggy for me, which might just be my computer.

Feedback-
Royal Robby is super glitchy, and randomly flies into space sometimes after firing the axe. Also, it seems to have way too much ground clearance, and no beta-style tail to keep it from flopping, even when dealing a not glitchy hit.
Bubblegum feels broken, since it seems like its impossible to destabilize it, and it still does RA2 damage by just grinding away and doing nothing while the opponent dies trying to kill it
Theseus' AI has absolutely no clue what to do when its flipped over and just drives around aimlessly
Sometimes robots will just sit there and do nothing after outwedging each other

Shoot!  The robot workshop shouldn't be laggy.  In which screens do you notice it the most?  Is it when the robots are loading?

We definitely need to fix Royal Robby.  I think the fundamental problem is that the momenta involved are too high for the physics engine to handle.  Good call about that tail!  Royal Robby is @anarchy_fox's original design, so adding it wouldn't be a problem at all.

Bubblegum is ridiculous.  It is fun until you realize that with the way things are right now, it is completely unstoppable.  It shouldn't be too hard to dial things way back.

Poor Theseus.  I think an AI tweak is in order, a lowered center of mass to reduce tipping, and maybe some magnets to help hold the robot to the floor.

Over the next few weeks I will try to nail down the AI issues above, as well as start the process of transitioning over to miniscript control for the AI.  Once AI is exposed via miniscript, it will be available to everyone here for modification.  I can't wait to see what people come up with and share with the community.

Maybe one more public Alpha release with user-editable miniscript AI?  Is this something that you might want to sink your teeth in the next two months?  Let me know!

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #431 on: March 29, 2019, 10:38:00 AM »
This is probably just my laptop being poor but christ the lag in the gameplay is strong, even though the graphics default setting is low. And yeah I tried to make a flipper only to not find a burst for flippers, but the graphics and physics are clean as hell.

Offline Mystic2000

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #432 on: March 29, 2019, 12:18:37 PM »
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #433 on: March 29, 2019, 12:52:31 PM »
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?

Unless we can figure out how to make the flail more stable, we will most likely remove it from the game.  It is great for testing purposes though!

We haven’t finalized temperature yet, but right now the way it works is:

1. Each damageable object keeps track of its own hp and temp.  The one that you see displayed in the bar is just the chassis. 
2. If temp rises above a certain level, components shut down.  If it rises way too high, that ovject takes damage.  Right now the only things that would cause that to happen are arena flames and lava.

Anything and everything in the botlab can cause damage to a damageable object.  You can definitely make weapons in the shape editor.  However, we haven’t done any balancing with this yet, so it is highly likely that we  will have certain components that do more damage.  My thought is that you can cut any shape you want out of mild steel in the shape builder.  However, you will need to use the yet-to-be-built RR2 Component Modding Tool to create a hardened steel spinning weapon.  The mild steel weapon will work, but the purpose built one will work better.

Offline Redalert

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #434 on: April 02, 2019, 10:30:51 AM »
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.


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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #435 on: April 02, 2019, 06:28:38 PM »
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #436 on: April 04, 2019, 08:44:31 AM »
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?


Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #437 on: April 04, 2019, 09:22:01 AM »
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.

Offline Redalert

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #438 on: April 04, 2019, 10:22:12 AM »
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.

This is going to be another huge hit on GTM, that's for sure.


Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #439 on: April 04, 2019, 02:35:45 PM »
The miniscript code editor screen is coming together!

It is now possible to live-code AI and watch the robot update its AI behavior in realtime.

In theory you could fight an entire battle by typing code!   :bigsmile: