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Robot Rumble 2.0 => Robot Rumble 2.0 => Topic started by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 07:16:46 AM

Title: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 07:16:46 AM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/RR2-BuildBattle1024banner.png)

THE ALPHA BUILD IS FINALLY HERE!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Check out our Discord!

https://discord.gg/tXwYay9 (https://discord.gg/tXwYay9)

Robot Rumble 2 is a 3D robot combat simulation game currently under development by Nerd Island Studios, LLC.  The game is a labor of love by several members of the GameTechMods community, and we are excited to announce our public Alpha release during the live filming of BuggleBots 2018.  We are shooting for a release date of fall, 2019.  Join the conversation here on GameTechMods, follow us on Twitter at @robot_rumble, and most importantly, sign up to join the closed beta at www.robot-rumble.com.

Build in the BotLab: Create custom parts from scratch with our built-in 3D modeling tool, combine those parts with prebuilt components to build a robot, then use sensors and logic to design your robot's AI for battle!
Fight in the Arenas:  AI vs AI, AI vs Player, or Player vs Player in local multiplayer matches
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 14, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
But... Will it run on Vulkan API?
JK
Actually, Awesome work. Hope to see this become next big robot figgting game.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Very cool to see another person have a crack at this. Keep us posted, this is the kind of stuff that the majority of the forum would be super interested in!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
Nice work there! Very impressed.

It's cool that you are trying to make it a simulator, rather than just a game.

I see that the wheels are very smooth, how did you achieved that? Did you use one of the standard colliders or something else?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:18:49 AM
Since we don't have gaming rigs at school, I am attempting to achieve as much detail as possible while maintaining 60 fps gameplay.  Here are some screenshots showing some models I am working on.

AmpFlow A28-400 gearmotor (modeled in Blender, textured in Substance Painter):
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/unity/ampflowmotordetail.png)

Welded 3/4" square tubular steel frame showing 5/16" hex bolts and 1/8" steel plate (modeled in Blender):
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/unity/blenderrobotdetail.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Oooo! Nuts and bolts too!

Nice ampflow model as well.

Loving the details :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:32:26 AM
Nice work there! Very impressed.

It's cool that you are trying to make it a simulator, rather than just a game.

I see that the wheels are very smooth, how did you achieved that? Did you use one of the standard colliders or something else?

Thank you!

For the original version of the game (Robot Rumble 1.0), I used Oimo.js physics, which uses cylinder colliders and is very smooth.  I just started with Unity, and it looks like PhysX is the only option, so I am experimenting with different drive mechanisms.  So far I have tried the following:

1. Forces applied directly to the model when keys are pressed (not at all realistic).
2. The standard Unity wheel colliders + white frictionless "casters" in the corners.  This is the model that you see in the link.
3. Cylindrical mesh colliders with hinge joints.  I made 16-sided, 32-sided, and 64-sided meshes in Blender and pulled them into Unity to see how they behave.  32- and 64-sided meshes work fine, but aren't quite as smooth as the wheel collider.

I am also considering an improved wheel collider that ray-casts in multiple directions for each wheel, but for now I am pretty happy with solution #2.  It has really low overhead and works wheel for protected wheels.  For flippable robots I will need to take a different approach, but right now I am just worried about getting everything running.

My target platform will be desktop with game controllers (Xbox and PS).  I would like to get it running with the Spectrum DX6i controllers we use for our real robots.  Assuming I can get them working, I will post a "how to" for this so people can use the real controllers.  For now, the simulator is intended to be 2-player multiplayer and 1-player vs AI.  Since I'm working in Unity this time, I would like to export to as many platforms as possible, potentially even to mobile and AirConsole, though I would need to think a lot about control scheme for those.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:41:01 AM
Oooo! Nuts and bolts too!

Nice ampflow model as well.

Loving the details :)

Re: Nuts and bolts - Of course! :)  It might be a little crazy to try to include every little screw that we use in a real robot, but right now I am exploring the limits.

I just received permission from AmpFlow to use models and the AmpFlow logo in-game.  I'm hoping to get permission from the other component manufacturers as well.  Hopefully everything ends up looking and feeling like the real thing.

The big problem we have is that we don't have our own arena, so students have to learn how to drive on the day of the competition.  Inevitably, this doesn't turn out well.  The goal is to give students driving experience beforehand so that they aren't completely befuddled by the controls when their robot is turned around in an odd orientation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:47:11 AM
Thanks for the info!

I have tried as well to make a robot combat game, didn't go very far, but I did encounter the problem of the wheels, I used a method where I have the collision model of the wheel not completely fixed to the wheel itself, but I used a configurable joint to make it like a shock absorber radially, so it doesn't jump because of the not completelly smooth collision mesh.

But I'm sure you can find a much better and less messy solution than that!

I love the Idea of using the real controllers!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 12:20:48 PM
Thanks for the info!

I have tried as well to make a robot combat game, didn't go very far, but I did encounter the problem of the wheels, I used a method where I have the collision model of the wheel not completely fixed to the wheel itself, but I used a configurable joint to make it like a shock absorber radially, so it doesn't jump because of the not completelly smooth collision mesh.

But I'm sure you can find a much better and less messy solution than that!

I love the Idea of using the real controllers!

I think you might be overestimating my abilities!  :smile:

How much of an issue did you find the jumpiness to be?  Did you try increasing the number of sides?

I also found that adding sphere colliders as skids seems to reduce the jumpiness.  Apparently PhysX computes friction for every contact point, so as the number of contact points changes, the friction changes. Maybe this is the cause of some of the jumpiness?  Spheres only have one contact point, which I am thinking would smooth things out.

Also
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 14, 2017, 01:10:47 PM
Wow. I'm working on a robot combat game prototype too, but this just blows mine out of the water in terms of graphics. I wish you luck!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 14, 2017, 01:23:31 PM
unity is a good dev environment, i use it, I will check it out,maybe i will use it in a GTM event. Will the rumbles allow more bots that RA2?


EDIT:Looked at it, good start, cant wait to see more,Looks in lots of ways better that RA1 ,RA2 and almost RA3 graphic wise.
Also, nice , that may be the best online fighting game, there are some but none this style, You should also port to tablets, I only know 1 other bot fighting game that is inactive, I would love to see that on tablets.

Also, You can Make AI to make the other bots move with these simple lines of code if you want to try.

Transform tr_Player;
   float f_RotSpeed=3.0f,f_MoveSpeed = 3.0f;

   // Use this for initialization
   void Start ()
   {

      tr_Player = GameObject.FindGameObjectWithTag ("Player").transform; }

   // Update is called once per frame
   void Update ()
   {
      /* Look at Player*/
      transform.rotation = Quaternion.Slerp (transform.rotation , Quaternion.LookRotation (tr_Player.position - transform.position) , f_RotSpeed * Time.deltaTime);

      /* Move at Player*/
      transform.position += transform.forward * f_MoveSpeed * Time.deltaTime;
   }
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
unity is a good dev environment, i use it, I will check it out,maybe i will use it in a GTM event. Will the rumbles allow more bots that RA2?


EDIT:Looked at it, good start, cant wait to see more,Looks in lots of ways better that RA1 ,RA2 and almost RA3 graphic wise.
Also, nice , that may be the best online fighting game, there are some but none this style, You should also port to tablets, I only know 1 other bot fighting game that is inactive, I would love to see that on tablets.

Also, You can Make AI to make the other bots move with these simple lines of code if you want to try.


Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

In either case, I'm working as a solo developer in my spare time (an hour or two each day) right now, so I have to be really careful to make sure the scope of the project doesn't get too big.  The priorities are:

Priority One:
- A complete basic robot model (2 wheels, no weapon) that looks like the real thing.  At this point, this means a lot more 3D modeling and texturing (ESCs, batteries, wiring, wiring harness, cable management, etc.).
- Physics-accurate (or as accurate as possible) controls and feel for the basic robot.  This will take a lot of tweaking with the physics engine, and some work to get game controllers working in "tank tread", single-stick, and double stick controls.
- A complete basic arena with a 2-minute countdown timer (our real-life "Rumbles" are all two minutes long).
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?
- Music, sound effects, and arena lighting
- Game UI
- Enemy robot AI
- 2-player local multiplayer controls

Priority Two:
- Basic robot wheel customization: Where should the wheels be?  How many wheels?  What diameter? Which motor?
- Robot weapons: Horizontal vs vertical spinner vs drum vs wedge vs flipper?

Priority Three:
- Fully-configurable component placement: Which style of motor should we use? Where should the batteries be? Tubular vs bracket vs welded plate construction? Wiring? ESC placement?
- Location-based damage model: This isn't something we typically see a lot of in competition though, as robots are typically knocked out in unpredictable ways (a wire comes loose internally, a battery loses charge, an ESC gets jostled).  The only real weapon damage I have seen in our competition is that when someone hits someone else hard enough, their own weapon breaks.  It is exciting, but embarrassing too.  I don't think I have seen anyone penetrate armor enough to cause internal damage to a battery.
- Gamification: New arena types - Unrealistic gravity? Fire/water/wind, sloped arenas, other craziness?
- Online multiplayer (this is money-dependent, and I'm reluctant to incur monthly multiplayer server costs unless I am confident that the game can be self-sustaining)

Priority Four:
- Reimagining the simulation as a game for mobile/tablets/AirConsole/console

At the moment, Robot Arena doesn't have anything to worry about as the premier platform for what it does, but I would like to develop Robot Rumble to the point where it is both useful and fun to play.

In the end, I hope to simulate the feel of the real competition.  These YouTube videos show our students in our first two year's of competition.  They are the inspiration for this project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPvcuaTSCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPvcuaTSCc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVcygcpSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVcygcpSYY)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 14, 2017, 04:16:22 PM
Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

[/quote]
I think you would tag the everybody"Player" and only give the script to the AI players. So th'all kill each other. Did you test the lines i sent you?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

I think you would tag the everybody"Player" and only give the script to the AI players. So th'all kill each other. Did you test the lines i sent you?
[/quote]

Regarding tags:  Ahh!  Nice!  I'm not used to attaching scripts yet.

I haven't tried the script, because isn't it written for non-rigidbodies? 

I was planning to give AI robots the exact same control mechanism as the players, which means applying torque to the drive wheels, rather than directly modifying the robot transform.  In Construct 2 I did this with the following:

1. Forward/Backward acceleration: Compute a dot product between the AI robot's forward vector (world space) and the bearing to the target (world space).  If the dot product is positive, then apply equal torque to both wheels to make the robot go forward. If the dot product is negative, do not apply torque.  This means the target is behind the AI robot, and they should just turn but not drive forward or backward.
2. Left/Right steering: Compute a cross product between the two vectors.  Apply turning torque to each wheel according to the cross product. 
Also, check the dot product to see if it is negative.  If so, then the target is behind the AI robot, and we need to apply the maximum turning torque to get the AI robot around as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kaiser on July 14, 2017, 04:51:26 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 05:09:14 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2017, 05:16:06 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Just keep plugging away at it my dude, frequent updates are a must to keep projects like this from dying

If you ever need development help, many of the people on the forum have lots of knowledge and experience, and I'm sure they'd be happy to help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 05:23:56 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Just keep plugging away at it my dude, frequent updates are a must to keep projects like this from dying

If you ever need development help, many of the people on the forum have lots of knowledge and experience, and I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

Will do!  The students keep my honest, and I need to stay on track to make sure they have a working simulator in October.

As far as help goes, I would love to find an experienced Unity dev to partner with.  I have my own company, and am willing to go 50-50 on revenue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 25, 2017, 09:21:56 PM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 26, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.

For this version of the game, I am looking to control movement through the physics engine, rather than directly via the transform.  I think a mobile version might benefit from simplified transform-based movement though -- it is further down on the list, but still definitely an option I would like to explore.  I'm pretty sure I could bust out a top-down version of a mobile game relatively quickly once the full PC version is done.

I'm hoping to put out an announcement on the game in the next week or two.  Still waiting on a few details... :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 02:41:34 AM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 02:44:31 AM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.

For this version of the game, I am looking to control movement through the physics engine, rather than directly via the transform.  I think a mobile version might benefit from simplified transform-based movement though -- it is further down on the list, but still definitely an option I would like to explore.  I'm pretty sure I could bust out a top-down version of a mobile game relatively quickly once the full PC version is done.

I'm hoping to put out an announcement on the game in the next week or two.  Still waiting on a few details... :)
*record scratch* say whaat

do you understand how long i have been begging to see this happen? so many mobile developers out there and nobody has had even the slightest impulse to try a robot combat game for mobile devices! it has the potential to blow the **** up, i'd think! imagine the online multiplayer... /swoon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 06:24:56 AM
*record scratch* say whaat

do you understand how long i have been begging to see this happen? so many mobile developers out there and nobody has had even the slightest impulse to try a robot combat game for mobile devices! it has the potential to blow the **** up, i'd think! imagine the online multiplayer... /swoon

Again, I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver.  There already are at least two games out there, one of which is the original "Robot Rumble", that kinda-sorta do robot combat in a very gamified way.  The big thing that RA2/RA3 have that don't exist on mobile is the bot building aspect.  In my mind, this is *way* harder to do in 3D.  It is pretty simple to do in 2D, if you aren't worried about 3D physics.  But a 2D physics-based robot combat game is also a very different game.

My core competency is actually 2D mobile development, but my fear is that it is really difficult to do mobile controls in a satisfying way for a 3D robot combat game.  I already started the process in the original Robot Rumble for AirConsole, then spent another two months iterating on things until I had cut everything down to a 2-button control scheme (left button - go forward & turn left, right button - go forward & turn right, both buttons go backward, no buttons drive forward).  It isn't perfect, and I want to rethink everything in a proper 3D PC game first before trying to tackle mobile again.

Another option is to pretty much require a MFi/game controller if you want to play on your phone.  It might cut user base, but it would make the controls so much better.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 06:57:02 AM
i think the most intuitive way to allow controls to be handled would be to allow you to kind of 'drag and drop' useable buttons for your robot onto your screen kind of like how one would customize the button placement for a mobile emulator on their screen. but again that would take a certain amount of know-how to do (not trying to imply that you don't have that kind of know-how, but i have no doubt in my mind that creating a game in any respect for a mobile platform is no easy venture)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 07:06:54 AM
i think the most intuitive way to allow controls to be handled would be to allow you to kind of 'drag and drop' useable buttons for your robot onto your screen kind of like how one would customize the button placement for a mobile emulator on their screen. but again that would take a certain amount of know-how to do (not trying to imply that you don't have that kind of know-how, but i have no doubt in my mind that creating a game in any respect for a mobile platform is no easy venture)

This is an interesting idea!  Make the game about creating control schemes as much as creating robots...

Imagine someone puts seven motors/actuators on their robot, each controlled by their own button.  They would quickly find that they have created a huge driving challenge.  I wonder if this could be fun, or if everybody would quickly realize an optimal control scheme and stick with it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 07:18:00 AM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 07:47:39 AM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.

I kinda want to prototype this today... :idea2:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on July 27, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
I've found that everybody has their own preferred control scheme regardless of game. For controlling robots I've toyed with Tank-controls, Single-stick and even car-style (RT drives, LS steers). If it's something you can afford to develop people will likely enjoy having the option.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 08:22:21 AM
I've found that everybody has their own preferred control scheme regardless of game. For controlling robots I've toyed with Tank-controls, Single-stick and even car-style (RT drives, LS steers). If it's something you can afford to develop people will likely enjoy having the option.

I have a project that I played with back in february that let you switch between eight different standard controller options, so this is definitely something that could be put into a game.  I think it would be cool to try making a fully customizable smartphone button configuration that goes beyond what you could do with a physical controller.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 04:43:24 PM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.

Here's an initial stab at a mobile-friendly robot control scheme builder.  I didn't have enough time to finish today, and will try to work out the bugs tomorrow:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/botlabprototype/index.html (http://nerdislandstudios.com/botlabprototype/index.html)

Forces are not being correctly applied by the motors, but at least you can see how things might work.

To use:
1. Add two motors and drag them to the left and right sides of the robot.
2. Add as many buttons as you want and drag them to the gray control area at the bottom of the screen.
3. Tap on a button to select it.  Once it is selected, you can tap on motors to change that motor's control direction for that button.
4. The red "X" deletes the button.
5. The "hand" icon allows you to reposition a button.
6. When you are satisfied with the control scheme, tap the "Play Mode" text.
7. To go back into edit mode, tap the "Edit Mode" text.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Starcore on July 27, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right

I would comment to not forget F= MA. While you can do shortcuts of how much damage a weapon does and assume a lot of things if one bot is much lighter than another and/or if you scale the weapons at all to the scale of the bot size then please don't forget to scale the amount of damage it can do in collisions, ramming and weapon contacts.

Also on your movement, if you do dot products to decide if a bot can move towards a foe or not, you are not taking into account if one or more motive wheels have been removed or damaged. If they planned for redundancy in having more than usually 4 wheels and that using dot product checks and the opponent is at nearly right angles will cause pretty strong errors in the movement.

Finally, the dot product method assumes always the same level which can be an assumption you can take if you plan on always having flat arenas but will be a problem if you later change mind to have ramps, bumps, multi level options.

Sorry if I have missed things in diving in midstream and seeing some possible issues.

Starcore
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 07:53:29 PM
nice work with the control setup! that's pretty much exactly what i was talking about. i think that would be a perfect way to implement your control schemes in a way that's customize-able to each robot  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2017, 06:39:43 AM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right

I would comment to not forget F= MA. While you can do shortcuts of how much damage a weapon does and assume a lot of things if one bot is much lighter than another and/or if you scale the weapons at all to the scale of the bot size then please don't forget to scale the amount of damage it can do in collisions, ramming and weapon contacts.

Also on your movement, if you do dot products to decide if a bot can move towards a foe or not, you are not taking into account if one or more motive wheels have been removed or damaged. If they planned for redundancy in having more than usually 4 wheels and that using dot product checks and the opponent is at nearly right angles will cause pretty strong errors in the movement.

Finally, the dot product method assumes always the same level which can be an assumption you can take if you plan on always having flat arenas but will be a problem if you later change mind to have ramps, bumps, multi level options.

Sorry if I have missed things in diving in midstream and seeing some possible issues.

Starcore

As a physics teacher, I couldn't forget F=ma if I tried!  :bigsmile:

To be honest, I have a lot more game playing to do -- I just recently downloaded RA2 (where has this game been all of my life?) to see how everyone else has solved these problems.  My gut instinct is to use change in kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) for damage and change in momentum (mv) for relative movement.  I still consider myself really naive, as this question of how to handle damage has been solved many times before, so I will keep playing around.

I'm not quite sure I understand your statement about problems with using the dot product in the case of wheel damage.  In the original Robot Rumble, the dot and cross products were computed to determine an intended direction of motion, and torque was applied to the wheels to make that happen. If the intended direction was 90 degrees from the current robot heading, the dot product would be zero, while the cross product would be maximum and result in a maximum turning signal.  The system was self-correcting though.  In the case of a lost wheel, the dot and products would constantly adjust, changing the signal to each wheel to compensate so that an AI could still steer precisely toward its target, albeit not as quickly due to the loss of a wheel.

I totally get what you mean about more complicated arenas.  How did you solve the AI problem in this case?  Did you use an A* algorithm, or similar?  How did you handle multiple levels?

I am brand new to AI programming, so any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 28, 2017, 10:52:40 AM
Kinteic energy applied would be the smartest move for a points system I would think. I personally think that you're planning too far ahead, though. IMO you should get a working prototype of 2 bots interacting in an arena before even worrying about anything else, like bot building, points systems or damage models. Walk before you run, so to speak.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 28, 2017, 11:29:06 AM
Applied........
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2017, 11:42:03 AM
IMO you should get a working prototype of 2 bots interacting in an arena before even worrying about anything else, like bot building, points systems or damage models. Walk before you run, so to speak.

Considering that we just lost our Unity programming lead, you are probably right.

If we can't find someone to work in Unity, I'm confident that I can get Robot Rumble 2.0 up and running in Construct 2, but I was hoping to migrate to a development environment that is not nearing its End Of Life.

In either case, there are lots of scope and design decisions to make (Do we have multilevel arenas? Do we try to do realistic or gamified damage? Do we support online multiplayer? etc.)  It helps to sort these things out early on in the process.  For Robot Rumble we had the game working fairly quickly, approximately one day to get two robots moving and fighting.  The rest took an additional four months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 28, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Can i be a proggramer dude?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 05:57:20 AM
Now available - playable 2D mockup!  Here is a link to the mockup:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/index.html (http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/index.html)

Over the past week I have been mocking up a new version of the game in 2D.  We still intend to build a 3D version, but this 2D version will allow us to try things out and rapidly iterate before committing to an idea and building all of the 3D artwork and gameplay.

Edit: The robots are controlled entirely by AI.  You can drag&drop them around the screen, but I wanted to see how things would play out with AI-only robots.  When the robot lab is built, you will be able to make new designs and AI rules.

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/mainmenu.png)
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/2Dgameplay.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Full disclosure: Thanks to help from @Starcore and others on the forum, I just recently realized that AI battles are a huge part of the RA2 experience.  I had assumed that people played RA2 because of PvP multiplayer (either local or online multiplayer), but realize that because of the robust AI built by the modding community, the game is now so much more than that.

This has changed my opinion of what Robot Rumble 2.0 should be.  Perhaps RR2.0 should be primarily about building AI bots that battle in tournaments.  AI should be an integral part of the Bot Lab, with screens dedicated to designing AI behavior.  What do you think?

Is AI design important enough to make it the central focus of the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on August 18, 2017, 06:16:24 AM
As the online multilayer of RA2 is non existend people had to rely on AI to host tournaments. We never really had a choice to say we prefer AI over PvP as we haven't experienced PvP in a propper way yet
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 08:58:50 AM
As the online multilayer of RA2 is non existend people had to rely on AI to host tournaments. We never really had a choice to say we prefer AI over PvP as we haven't experienced PvP in a propper way yet

Fair enough.  I thought about including online multiplayer in the poll, but left it off for two reasons:

1. I'm not aware of any robot combat games that do online multiplayer.  The closest thing I know of is the original Robot Rumble for AirConsole (local multiplayer) that I built, and games like Rocket League which don't have nearly as many moving parts, and have a massive development team.
2. It is *really* hard to build an online multiplayer game based on 3D physics.  You have to worry about variable network latency and accurately predicting the motion of objects when each player has a physics engine that is essentially a random number generator generating different position, rotation, velocity, acceleration, etc.

As it is, it scares me to even consider building online multiplayer in RR2.0.  I really like the AI-only solution -- I think it is really elegant, and changes the dynamic of the game to something that is more strategic than fast-twitch-response-based. 

I was thinking we could still do local multiplayer running on a single screen.  I have many fond memories of playing Mario Kart 64 with friends while sitting on the couch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 18, 2017, 12:53:28 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 01:17:32 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.


Not exactly, im sure there are people who want a good multiplayer combat fighting game, i know 2 kinda modern rc games, they both did ok, one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs. If you can make a better game then both of those, people may think fighting robots with other people is fun, if you market it right, dont have bugs.
One thing RC games ive seen latley, there made in unity as well, but are really buggy. But there are also nonbuggy games in unity, so it is possible to avoid bugs, if you just market it well, this is key, lots of people who never heard of robogames , Robot wars or battle bots may join. YOu should do multiplayer. Make it so it automaticly connects to random opponents. One game gave you a code and made you give it to someone else , i doubt it was used there, i am voting for multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 01:21:09 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.

I agree on both counts: 

It takes pretty significant numbers to support online multiplayer rooms.  This is pretty rare for indie developers to sustain an online multiplayer community for more than a few months, and nonexistent for part-time indie developers like me.  Local multiplayer is another story, however.  "Robot Rumble" averages just under 2 players per game - people are more likely to play while sitting together in the same room than they are to play single-player.

I envision an improved robot building lab that is designed with AI building in mind.  There should be at least one screen (maybe a tab called "AI software"???) where players can configure the AI for the robot directly inside the robot lab.  It is going to take a lot of thought to get this right -- 15 years of AI development by the GTM community boiled down into one easy-to-digest screen is not going to be easy, but I think it is doable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 01:30:16 PM
one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs.

i am voting for multiplayer.

I personally haven't tried RA3 yet.  How is the online multiplayer experience? 

I'm afraid of underestimating how difficult it is do this well.

I expect that there would be a lot of robot parts that appear to randomly teleport when a packet arrives that is delayed by 300 ms and the robots are forced to shift their positions to the new spot.  Even with interpolation, there could be weirdness as robots rotate into position under the control of a linear interpolation function instead of the user's input.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on August 18, 2017, 01:37:16 PM
one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs.

i am voting for multiplayer.

I personally haven't tried RA3 yet.  How is the online multiplayer experience? 

I'm afraid of underestimating how difficult it is do this well.

I expect that there would be a lot of robot parts that appear to randomly teleport when a packet arrives that is delayed by 300 ms and the robots are forced to shift their positions to the new spot.  Even with interpolation, there could be weirdness as robots rotate into position under the control of a linear interpolation function instead of the user's input.
RA3 multiplayer is a bit of a mess. It's buggy, occasionally laggy, and you can only play with people on the same continent as you with no option to change servers. It is still far better than RA2 online via Gameranger though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
RA3 multiplayer is a bit of a mess. It's buggy, occasionally laggy, and you can only play with people on the same continent as you with no option to change servers.

I suspect that the same continent rule is designed to mitigate the problem of >1 second lag and lots of loss as packets travel around the planet.  I probably would have made the same design choice.  In a game that doesn't require as much synchronization, I think you can get away with opening players up to servers on other continents.  For example, this is much simpler for a 2D game where you only have to deal with translation in x-y and a single degree of rotation, maybe with a few height values thrown in here and there.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dreamcast on August 18, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
The only reason why we have so much AI is because online play is horrible.

Not that there's anything wrong with making it easy to AI a robot, or having AI'ing options. The Starcore AI pack robots were (IIRC) designed as sparing partners for multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
The only reason why we have so much AI is because online play is horrible.

Not that there's anything wrong with making it easy to AI a robot, or having AI'ing options. The Starcore AI pack robots were (IIRC) designed as sparing partners for multiplayer.

Given the choice between AI robot battles and a fun PvP online multiplayer experience with manually controlled robots, you would prefer the latter?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Another option I toyed with back in February was to create a point-and-click control scheme.  Robots would fight with AI, but you would tell them where to go and who to attack.

This might be the worst of all worlds though: it would lack the immediacy of direct controls, would still suffer from syncing issues as robots automagically lerp() to new positions and rotations, and require someone else to be online to battle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
But there is a multiplayer game worse than RA3 worse than RA2, rumble bots, for that, it just gives you a code to give to someone else which is just your ip adress, even worse, they suggest you be on the same connection which almost kills the point, and it is really glitchy, like other bots not moving, so yes there is worse than RA3 and RA2 with GameSpy.
Another option I toyed with back in February was to create a point-and-click control scheme.  Robots would fight with AI, but you would tell them where to go and who to attack.

This might be the worst of all worlds though: it would lack the immediacy of direct controls, would still suffer from syncing issues as robots automagically lerp() to new positions and rotations, and require someone else to be online to battle.
thats gonna be hard to do, have you ever tryed to AI in RA2?
You also need to name your controls and have smart zones and everything, and point and click will be also hard to code.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:58:43 PM
But there is a multiplayer game worse than RA3 worse than RA2, rumble bots,

Thanks for the suggestion to check out Rumble Bots!  We looked at it last year but we never tried online multiplayer.

Point and click targeting isn't too bad.  The code for "go to this spot" is identical to the code for "go to this target", which already exists in Robot Rumble.  In Unity, I believe this means just adding a raycast from the mouse to the arena floor to find the target location.  I have also done A* pathfinding before to navigate around obstacles, but doesn't Unity have this capability built in with the NavMesh system?

I downloaded DSL, and still need to play around with it to get the hang of how the whole thing works.  My goal is to create something simple and intuitive for beginners, but robust enough to handle a functionally infinite variety of AI designs.  This might be beyond my ability, but I will start working on a 2D version of the robot builder in the next few weeks to see how it goes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 04:13:36 PM
 never heard of Robot Rumble, is it a game?

Do you mean bot arena?
THat has a point and click interface, i think its left clicking targets you bot(But its 2D not 3d), you should consider trying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
Robot Rumble is a game that a group of students and I released back in February for Airconsole (www.airconsole.com).  RR was a student project, and for RR2.0 I am looking to release a much more polished product.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 19, 2017, 11:12:32 AM
I have been playing around with Rumble Bots on an iphone.  It is well done, but it appears to be a 3D game with 2D physics.  It is a smart choice, because that makes everything faster and online multiplayer much easier.

The key issue I have with online multiplayer is dealing with flipper bots and latency.  If I were fighting against a flipper bot and a couple of packets were lost or delayed, I wouldn't know, and would charge at my opponent who would apparently be standing still.  Meanwhile, on his screen, he might see me standing still and take advantage of the situation.  I think I have just scored a good hit, then suddenly, BOOM!  I am mysteriously on my back, having lost the match.  Rage would ensue, because from my point of view I should have just scored big.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 19, 2017, 11:18:08 AM
It might not be my place to say, but it looks to me like you have all these ideas you want to implement, but you don't have much of a base game right now. Multiplayer is a very complex and difficult thing to implement properly, and I personally think you should just get the physics engine and a couple bots sorted first as a proof of concept (like Jules did), and from there you can add onto that. I've fallen into the trap of having a huge scope for an awesome project, then realising after a ton of work that I can't do everything at once, and I end up with nothing to show. I wouldn't want this project to befall a similar fate.


You can conceptualise and post cool ideas all day, but if you can't implement those ideas into a game it's all for nothing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 19, 2017, 03:26:29 PM
You can conceptualise and post cool ideas all day, but if you can't implement those ideas into a game it's all for nothing.

You are correct about this, of course.  I hadn't mentioned yet that @tashic and I are working together.  He already has a working base of a game.  The physics need a lot of tweaking.  We were hoping to bring @jules in, but he won't be available for this project.

So far the team is just @tashic and me.  We are still working on bringing in a lead Unity developer, and are hesitant to go too far into the official Unity project if there is a chance that we will bring someone on who will want to work with their own programming paradigm/style.  This is why we are doing things like artwork and 2D mockups at this point.

So far we have the following scope:

COMPLETE OR NEARLY COMPLETE
-3 different drivable robots (functional, but the physics needs a lot of tweaking -- see @tashic's thread)
-2 different arenas (1 complete, 1 more on the way)
-Working robot AI in a different game engine

HIGH CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A complete game UI for selecting robots and playing single player or local multiplayer with game controllers / AirConsole.
-iOS and Android ports of the single-player game.  I have moonlit as an iOS developer for the past 5 years, and have launched an 1100-hour project for iOS.  I am confident in my ability to modify this game for iOS.
-A build system based entirely on predefined and pretextured models: pick a chassis, place motors, place wheels, place weapons, place sensors for AI

MEDIUM CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A build system that allows a player to create their own chassis mesh, as exists in RA2/RA3.  I have most of the principles figured out, and know where to borrow most of the code.
-A bot-sharing server and database, where players can share their designs and download new ones.  I have experience building several server-based apps, and know exactly how I would do this.

LOW CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A build system that allows players to texture their chassis.  I know this is doable in principle, but I haven't started investigating it yet.

EXTREMELY LOW CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-Online multiplayer:  Unity has a pre-made signaling server, with Photon as another option.  The hardest part of this is client side, and I have enough trouble wrapping my head around realtime multiplayer with something relatively simple like a top-down shooter.  I don't think I could deliver a good player experience with this game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 27, 2017, 03:42:42 PM
Good news!

We are thrilled to announce that we have put together the core team for "Robot Rumble 2.0".  tashic, tomgsx, and I will be working together on the project, and have set a launch date target of mid-2019.  Starcore has graciously offered his guidance in the development of AI, and we are hoping to make this a big part of the game at launch.

Thank you for all of your kind words of support, and we hope to make this game something that we can all be proud of and enjoy for years to come.

-The Robot Rumble 2.0 Core Development Team
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 27, 2017, 03:44:50 PM
Great news!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 27, 2017, 07:53:30 PM
Good news!

We are thrilled to announce that we have put together the core team for "Robot Rumble 2.0".  tashic, tomgsx, and I will be working together on the project, and have set a launch date target of mid-2019.  Starcore has graciously offered his guidance in the development of AI, and we are hoping to make this a big part of the game at launch.

Thank you for all of your kind words of support, and we hope to make this game something that we can all be proud of and enjoy for years to come.

-The Robot Rumble 2.0 Core Development Team
Nice! I look forward to following the game's development!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2017, 01:21:45 PM
Howdy all,

We just wanted to let you know that work is continuing.  @tomgsx is in the process of building out the menu system and combat dynamics.  @tashic has taken on the significant project of creating the BotLab.  He has some pretty cool ideas about new ways to build robots from smaller pieces.  We don't know what is going to work and be robust enough to ship yet, but hopefully some of them work well.

Meanwhile, we have a website and the beginnings of a logo:

http://robot-rumble.com (http://robot-rumble.com)

(http://robot-rumble.com/logo-squareandtorch.png)

The T-square and the welding torch were chosen to represent an emphasis on building.  We are hoping to make a great robot building experience, where players can test their creations in combat, rather than focusing only on the combat.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 06, 2017, 01:31:01 PM
Thanks for the update, the logo looks good. Glad to hear that you're tackling this in a modular manner

Can you comment on if you're taking moddability into account during development? One of this things that has kept RA2 relevant for so long is how much of the game can be modified without touching the actual source code, or in other words how little of the game is hardcoded.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2017, 02:31:52 PM
Thanks for the update, the logo looks good. Glad to hear that you're tackling this in a modular manner

Can you comment on if you're taking moddability into account during development? One of this things that has kept RA2 relevant for so long is how much of the game can be modified without touching the actual source code, or in other words how little of the game is hardcoded.

We are hoping to make a system that is inherently flexible enough that modding isn't really necessary.  Here are a few of the things we are exploring:

Creating Custom Meshes
@tashic is attempting to make a mesh builder that allows you to "cut out parts" on a virtual bandsaw and weld them together to make whatever you want.  In theory it should be doable, but there are lots of gotchas along the way that could cause a lot of performance problems if we aren't careful.  We haven't gotten to custom texturing yet, and frankly, we still have a lot to learn about texturing and decals in Unity.

User-Built AI Code
My other goal is to study @starcore's AI work to see if we can pull out the basic logic and expose it to the user in a much more flexible way.  The vision is to have a system where players could program their robot AI, much in the same way our high school students do with their robotics kits (VEX and Lego Minstorms).  To be honest, we haven't started on this yet, and I envision that it will take a significant amount of work to do.  I have the basics of a system in mind for AI steering and attacking, and a conceptual framework for handling AI task priority (do I attack? run away? help my teammate? etc.), but I still have a lot more basic research to do before this begins to come together.  If we can't get this working, then maybe we can make the AI modding experience similar enough to RA2 + DSL that existing players will know what to do.

Whatever we can't build in, we are hoping to expose to the modding community, though it is almost as difficult to do this well as it is to build it right into the game.

First things first though -- we are getting close to an updated version of @tashic's original version.  I was hoping to test it with my robotics students sometime in the next two weeks, then publish it here for everyone else to try.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 06, 2017, 02:49:05 PM
@tashic is attempting to make a mesh builder that allows you to "cut out parts" on a virtual bandsaw and weld them together to make whatever you want.

this would be amazing if you get it to work. looking forward to seeing what comes together further down the line.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 02:50:26 PM
New logo.  This version is cleaner:

(http://robot-rumble.com/logo-ROBOTRUMBLE2.0.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on September 07, 2017, 02:51:46 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 03:10:47 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on September 07, 2017, 03:13:08 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on September 07, 2017, 03:21:47 PM
I feel like the old one was a little more childish than this new one (Probably because of the pickaxe.  What does that have to do with robots?).   But I do agree it's much less interesting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on September 07, 2017, 03:34:41 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Pretty much this. The other one could be an icon for the game as well as the logo so it's got a better branding rather than just some text that you don't instantly see is textured, rather than just plain grey.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on September 07, 2017, 03:42:23 PM
I think a good idea for the logo would be to incorporate a shape or logo that is the essence of the game boiled down into 1 image, like a lot of the RW/Battlebots branding revolves around gears or hex bolts that give off a mechanical vibe. The idea for this game would be as a building tool or mechnaism for people to learn how it's put together, so incorproating a wrench or a spanner into the logo would give a little more visual excitement, whilst not being an overly complicated logo either.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 03:45:51 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Pretty much this. The other one could be an icon for the game as well as the logo so it's got a better branding rather than just some text that you don't instantly see is textured, rather than just plain grey.

Fair enough.  My eye tends toward minimalism, but the broader community's opinion is the one that counts.

Thanks again for the feedback, and I'll keep working on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 27, 2017, 02:55:48 PM
My apologies for the length of time between updates.  We have been working on all sorts of odds and ends.  @tashic is busy with the BotLab, @tomgsx is working on combat, and we might be bringing a new team member on board.

Hopefully the next update will come soon, but for now, here is an animated version of the logo:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/logo-animatedgif.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on September 27, 2017, 03:00:17 PM
Seems like it'd be a good loading bar as well. Though I think having the laser cut out the name would be cooler, though I understand that's more complicated
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 27, 2017, 06:01:37 PM
Seems like it'd be a good loading bar as well. Though I think having the laser cut out the name would be cooler, though I understand that's more complicated

Oh... great idea!  I like it!

This one was done in After Effects, but I'm thinking it might be cool to recreate it in Unity to give in-game control of the animation.  The straight path of the laser does seem a natural fit for a loading bar.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on October 02, 2017, 12:30:11 AM
i dont care what anyone else says, i actually really ****ing love the first logo. i think it's close to perfect.

and on the topic of multiplayer: yes, this. please.
the reason there isn't an active multiplayer community for this game is because the multiplayer, according to many (excluding my easy-to-please self... let's ****in' battle, yall!) was awful. i personally crave the ability to DRIVE my robot against another human-piloted bot. that's where half the fun is! maybe your bot is designed better, or has superior weaponry, or what-have-you. but i've outwitted and manouvered you, and now you have to suck sparks, loser! that's entirely my sh**.

so please, please do that.

love~ :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on October 02, 2017, 12:39:30 AM
oh-- and do keep in mind with your question: this is a community built around a game where the most functional part of it's playability is the customization and building, so that's what your answer is going to be. i'm kind of a unicorn here in this sense because i'm more about competition than idle tinkering, and that not being the strong point of the game this commuinity is built around means that people like me (who do exist and likely don't post here because of the lack of mano y mano combat as a strength of the game) could absolutely be a target market of sorts for your game has it the technical capability to implement a solid online battle system. do keep in mind that you can certainly expand your target market outside of the average ra2 player if you pay enough mind to improve on the things where ra2 was weak, rather than just building a stronger ra2 (which limits your community to those of us who are already here, and god forbid that's all!)

makes sense?  :approve:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 06:09:17 AM
oh-- and do keep in mind with your question: this is a community built around a game where the most functional part of it's playability is the customization and building, so that's what your answer is going to be. i'm kind of a unicorn here in this sense because i'm more about competition than idle tinkering, and that not being the strong point of the game this commuinity is built around means that people like me (who do exist and likely don't post here because of the lack of mano y mano combat as a strength of the game) could absolutely be a target market of sorts for your game has it the technical capability to implement a solid online battle system. do keep in mind that you can certainly expand your target market outside of the average ra2 player if you pay enough mind to improve on the things where ra2 was weak, rather than just building a stronger ra2 (which limits your community to those of us who are already here, and god forbid that's all!)

makes sense?  :approve:

Absolutely, and I totally appreciate where you are coming from.  I thought about this a lot when I found out about the RA2 community a few months ago.  The first version of "Robot Rumble" was extremely basic (it only had one robot + 3 powerups), included no robot building at all, and was "couch multiplayer" only.  But I think it was actually fun.

Couch multiplayer is pretty easy to build, and is absolutely something we intend to do with this version.  In addition to making a really beautiful version for Steam, I'm trying to figure out how to get Unity WebGL to behave well enough to make an AirConsole version like the original so that up to 8 people can play against each other locally on their smartphones.  I'm even considering porting a WebGL version in something other than Unity just because I like AirConsole a lot, and think it has potential for a game like this.

I am really looking forward to a game where I have 4 people with PS4-style controllers sitting in a room together playing against each other with robots that they have built.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 12:46:50 PM
It has been a while since any of us has released a build to the public, so I figure it is about time to share the love.  We are playing around with a lot of things at the moment, so this version is pretty incomplete.  If you are curious, here are a few things we are trying:

1. Post-processing effects: If you select a 1-player battle, the effects are enabled.  If you select a 2-player battle, the effects are not enabled.  Otherwise, they are essentially the same screen.  Please let comment below if the post-processing effects are causing problems!

2. The BotLab exists, but @tashic is still at the very early stages of working out the mesh builder.

3. I am just starting to work on sounds now.  The only things that have sounds attached are the menu selections.

Windows: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild9-30-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild9-30-17.zip)

Mac OS: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX9-30-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX9-30-17.app.zip)

Linux: We don't have a Linux build, but please let us know if this is something that would appeal to you, and we will make one!

Screenshot:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/rr2-carbide-lensdirt2.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on October 02, 2017, 05:12:29 PM
Hey man, that's an outstanding start you guys have right there. My one gripe is just a visual one, and it's one that it shares with a lot of modern games. The lighting is a bit much. I understand that you want everything to appear real and shiny, but the lighting is almost giving the camera a haziness to it. I'd consider trying a bit less shine.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM
Hey man, that's an outstanding start you guys have right there. My one gripe is just a visual one, and it's one that it shares with a lot of modern games. The lighting is a bit much. I understand that you want everything to appear real and shiny, but the lighting is almost giving the camera a haziness to it. I'd consider trying a bit less shine.

Thank you for the feedback and the kind words!  :beer:

To be honest, I'm just learning about visual effects post-processing, and I need to do a lot of experimentation to get things right.  At this point, I am curious to see how much post-processing can be done before it starts slowing down the game to an unacceptable level.  Frame rate is more important than visual effects, and it is good to hear people say that we have too much visual effects, because it is much easier to scale them back than to add more.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on October 02, 2017, 08:33:24 PM
looking very nice so far. great start

keep up the good work
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mr. AS on October 02, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 08:51:01 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mr. AS on October 02, 2017, 08:56:54 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
I've got this if that means anything:
(https://i.imgur.com/r5PA8rl.png)
It's basically a toaster.

I tried the "2P test" mode which ran far smoother than the other game modes. Maybe you could have that be the low graphics setting and the effects used in the other game modes be the high graphics setting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 09:17:12 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
I've got this if that means anything:
(https://i.imgur.com/r5PA8rl.png)
It's basically a toaster.

I tried the "2P test" mode which ran far smoother than the other game modes. Maybe you could have that be the low graphics setting and the effects used in the other game modes be the high graphics setting.

 :laughing

I had forgotten that @tomgsx had thrown in the "2P Test" mode as well.  It has pretty much nothing in the way of lighting and shadows, and is perfect for low-end machines and WebGL.

On my 2013 11" MacBook Air and 2017 Dell Inspiron Laptop with 8 GB of ram I am seeing:

1P - Runs and looks pretty, but there are a lot of frame drops.
2P - Runs smoothly.
2P Test - Runs smoothly.

It is interesting to me that the 2013 MBA and the 2017 Inspiron perform almost identically.  I suspect it is because they are limited by the onboard laptop GPUs.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on October 02, 2017, 09:24:09 PM
what are the controls for the second bot in 2P? both the wsad and arrow keys drive the P1 robot.

also it looks good so far considering it's basically the engine tashic had a few months ago with a couple of additions
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 03, 2017, 09:46:11 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 10:41:57 AM
also it looks good so far considering it's basically the engine tashic had a few months ago with a couple of additions

True!  Progress is slow, but hopefully steady.  We are doing a lot of learning and experimentation right now, which doesn't necessarily show up in the build.

what are the controls for the second bot in 2P? both the wsad and arrow keys drive the P1 robot.

They are still linked to the same robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 10:45:25 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)

Thanks for the info!  I'm hoping that older dedicated GPU cards will be able to handle the max settings.  This will give us more room to play around with particles.

What screen resolution are you running?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 03, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 01:37:37 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.

Good to know.  For the next revision I think I will get rid of the "lens dirt" and turn the bloom way down. I'm thinking we can also get rid of the ambient occlusion.  It is a nice effect, but I don't think it really adds that much when the scene is so full of hard edges.  Motion blur is cool too, but I think we have a better way to do motion blur that doesn't require any post-processing.

If you don't mind my asking, in the "2 Player" mode, are you seeing 60 fps?  This scene doesn't have any post-processing at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 03, 2017, 01:41:27 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.

Good to know.  For the next revision I think I will get rid of the "lens dirt" and turn the bloom way down. I'm thinking we can also get rid of the ambient occlusion.  It is a nice effect, but I don't think it really adds that much when the scene is so full of hard edges.  Motion blur is cool too, but I think we have a better way to do motion blur that doesn't require any post-processing.

If you don't mind my asking, in the "2 Player" mode, are you seeing 60 fps?  This scene doesn't have any post-processing at all.
I was puzzled by the low FPS and it turns out that the game isn't putting almost any load on my GPU unless I click out of the game. Then it shoots to over 250fps and 100% GPU load.
In "2 Player" the same 25fps occurs but I get over 500fps when I click out of the window leaving Carbide's weapon spinning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 09090901 on October 03, 2017, 01:47:36 PM
I played around with it earlier. It seems the higher graphic options have vsync enabled as it capped the fps to my monitor's refresh rates, but that's not really an issue for a robot combat game.

I was able to consistently hit 240 fps @1080p and 60 fps @4k with a 1080ti

@s_m iirc had a similar issue when I ran it windowed.

 :thumbup from me. Can't wait to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 02:59:56 PM
Here is a new build.  I got rid of the lens dirt, ambient occlusion, and motion blur, and scaled way back on the bloom in the "1 Player" scene.

It should look better, and hopefully perform better:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild10-3-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild10-3-17.zip)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on October 03, 2017, 03:05:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7gpZZJq.jpg)

Newest build is pretty good. I noticed that my framerate improved when I was right in the corners, like directly in the spotlights, and worsened in the middle of the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 03:24:45 PM

Newest build is pretty good. I noticed that my framerate improved when I was right in the corners, like directly in the spotlights, and worsened in the middle of the arena.

Weird.  I wonder if it has to do with how much of the screen is being replaced every frame...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WeN on October 03, 2017, 07:10:02 PM
I will try this game in Friday.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 04, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)

Thanks for the info!  I'm hoping that older dedicated GPU cards will be able to handle the max settings.  This will give us more room to play around with particles.

What screen resolution are you running?

640X480
Well.. I have a sh** monitor sooo.. 720p (but i think that it would run above 60fps on 1080p)
Full specs (and a bit of a huuuuge bottleneck):
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 (dual core 2.6 ghz, not OC)
RAM: 4 Gigs DDR2
GPU: Sapphire HD 7950 Boost Edition, 3gb vram
OS: Windows 10 pro, 64 bit
(I ordered Phenom X4, and 8 gigs of DDR3, so will see how it works)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 08:54:54 PM
@tashic, @tomgsx, @AnarchyFox  and I have been tooling away for the past few weeks working on all sorts of things.  We wanted to get a new build out in time for Thanksgiving here in the US, so here is the latest!  Enjoy!

Windows Build: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-20-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-20-17.zip)

Mac Build: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-20-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-20-17.app.zip)

New for this build:

Arena:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/arena-processed.png)

Lava Pit:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/lavapit-processed.png)

Warehouse:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/warehouse-processed.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dreamcast on November 20, 2017, 09:00:48 PM
I'm gonna download because I want that lava pit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 09:04:15 PM
I'm gonna download because I want that lava pit.

No damage system is in place yet, but the pit exists! Progress! :)

Also, the AI doesn't realize the pit exists either, so...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
...and saving the best for last, here is a first look at the BotLab (@AnarchyFox  - design, @tashic - interface and logic):

A long shot of the workbench:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/botlabbench.png)

A closeup of a robot being built using @tashic's mesh builder:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/buildingarobot.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on November 21, 2017, 12:29:36 AM
This already looks better than ra3 guys. Amazing job. Need to test it when I get home
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2017, 04:48:40 PM
This already looks better than ra3 guys. Amazing job. Need to test it when I get home

Thank you for the kind words!

We are doing the best we can, but we still have a long way to go before the game is as good as RA2/RA3.

Speaking of a that, I just uploaded a new version with damage and heat in the 2-Player arenas.  The game is now playable as a game!

Here are the new links:

Windows Build - http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-21-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-21-17.zip)

Mac Build - http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-21-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-21-17.app.zip)

Enjoy!  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: sk8rjess on November 25, 2017, 03:50:14 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on November 25, 2017, 04:31:25 PM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on November 25, 2017, 05:29:17 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.

Welcome to the forum
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FOTEPX on November 25, 2017, 05:37:15 PM
So, the next things you need to add, ordered from easiest to hardest-

Recognition of OOTA's/Pittings (Will allow for more strategy)

Limited battery life/flipper gas (Eruption can just flip forever right now)

Fix the Warehouse's cameras (I tried a test fight and couldn't see anything)

Smoke/fire effects for damaged components (Good visual indicator, plus adds some flair)

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

1 more robot, then support for up to 4 AI's at once (The dream is of course to be able to do massive multi-bot rumbles at some point.)

Softbody physics (yeah this is never happening)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dadddjent on November 25, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
THIS LOOKS ****IN SWEET MAN
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 25, 2017, 07:05:07 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.

We are thrilled that you are excited about it!  It helps to have people excited about the project when there is so much work left to do.

I think one of the lessons learned on this particular build is to not enable any functions that shouldn’t be tested.  At this point the “1 Player” menu option is redundant, and we haven’t bothered to get rid of it, as it doesn’t do anything that the “2 Player” mode does.  Likewise for the “2P Test” menu option.  We use it to test out new ideas that will eventually be migrated into the game.

The BotLab is partially functional at this point. You can create 3D meshes and assemble the meshes you have created in any size and orientation.  It is pretty neat that it works, but it isn’t obvious how it works at this point.  Once all of the functionality exists, we will need to do a lot of UI/UX work and testing to make robot building as smooth and intuitive as possible.

We will try to post our development here, but I encourage you to sign up for the mailing list on www.robot-rumble.com to receive news and updates.  We will also be using the mailing list to sign people up for beta testing when we are ready for it.  It is still pretty early in the development cycle, but I am hoping to be ready for beta in about 12 months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 25, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
So, the next things you need to add, ordered from easiest to hardest-

Recognition of OOTA's/Pittings (Will allow for more strategy)

Limited battery life/flipper gas (Eruption can just flip forever right now)

Fix the Warehouse's cameras (I tried a test fight and couldn't see anything)

Smoke/fire effects for damaged components (Good visual indicator, plus adds some flair)

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

1 more robot, then support for up to 4 AI's at once (The dream is of course to be able to do massive multi-bot rumbles at some point.)

Softbody physics (yeah this is never happening)

Thanks for the encouragement!

Regarding OOTA/pitting, I am just starting to go through the DSL AI .py files now to figure out how to implement tactics to take advantage of arena hazards.  I will start by hard-coding tactics, but at some point I want to figure out how to integrate tactics building directly into the BotLab.  Ideally, there should be a way to do this that gives all of the flexibility of Python, but is easy to use, and is built right into the game’s UI.

Softbody physics would be great, but we are trying to be very careful to not overload the CPU, and to do deformable bodies we would need to add a lot more vertices.  The option isn’t off the table, but it is competing with other things like more robots, increasing framerate, and particle systems.

In general, though, the damage system needs to “feel right”, and it doesn’t at this point.  I’m hoping to this out over the next few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 26, 2017, 05:13:39 AM
This version is just nice. There is some stuff to do tho.. most of it is already said soo..
If you need arenas i can make some (you will need 3ds max skills tho)
Ive been messing in botlab and made this... (Still wishing for that sketchup mode of building. Maybe add an extenstion to port designs from 3dsmax or sketchup to the game)
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on November 26, 2017, 10:41:54 AM
Been loving it so far, though I've noticed a few bugs and issues. 1 is that Eruption turns really slowly, making it a bit sluggish to drive and that it doesn't actually pivot where the wheels are. 2. With the camera when I set it to a camera other than 1 and fire the weapon it'll swap camera usually back to camera 1 but sometimes it's change to camera 2. And finally when you destroy carbide the bar can still damage you, which I do find entertaining but would be frustrating in melee's n what not. This is still in great condition so far and I cannot wait to see what you'll add next.  :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 26, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
This version is just nice. There is some stuff to do tho.. most of it is already said soo..
If you need arenas i can make some (you will need 3ds max skills tho)
Ive been messing in botlab and made this... (Still wishing for that sketchup mode of building. Maybe add an extenstion to port designs from 3dsmax or sketchup to the game)
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Thanks!

When you said you are wishing for "that sketchup mode of building", are you referring to a UI that is similar to Google Sketchup, or are you thinking that there should be a way to import models created in Sketchup?  If it is the former, do you have any ideas about how to make the UI more user-friendly?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: sk8rjess on November 26, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.

Could have just been my system but I was unable to do anything. I understand the development stage, but I felt like I should have been able to at least click and drag to model as it seems others have been able to do?

Welcome to the forum

Thank you! Long time RA2 player here. I even used the bot builder back in high school to help model flyers for a robot fighting tourney.


We are thrilled that you are excited about it!  It helps to have people excited about the project when there is so much work left to do.

I think one of the lessons learned on this particular build is to not enable any functions that shouldn’t be tested.  At this point the “1 Player” menu option is redundant, and we haven’t bothered to get rid of it, as it doesn’t do anything that the “2 Player” mode does.  Likewise for the “2P Test” menu option.  We use it to test out new ideas that will eventually be migrated into the game.

The BotLab is partially functional at this point. You can create 3D meshes and assemble the meshes you have created in any size and orientation.  It is pretty neat that it works, but it isn’t obvious how it works at this point.  Once all of the functionality exists, we will need to do a lot of UI/UX work and testing to make robot building as smooth and intuitive as possible.

We will try to post our development here, but I encourage you to sign up for the mailing list on www.robot-rumble.com to receive news and updates.  We will also be using the mailing list to sign people up for beta testing when we are ready for it.  It is still pretty early in the development cycle, but I am hoping to be ready for beta in about 12 months.

Signed up! I'll remember that for 1 player. Keep up the great work guys.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 27, 2017, 09:35:37 AM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.

Could have just been my system but I was unable to do anything. I understand the development stage, but I felt like I should have been able to at least click and drag to model as it seems others have been able to do?

To edit something in the BotLab:

1. Click "Structure Workshop".
2. Under "Structure List", select "Chassis".
3. Click "Edit".
4. Click "Custom".
5. Draw a shape using the tool.
6. Click "Add layer" to make the shape into a 3D mesh.
7. ***Use the middle mouse button to rotate the shape around so you can see it in 3D.
8. You can go back and edit each layer of points to get the desired shape.
9. When you are happy, hit "Next".
10. Pick a setting for the Collision Generator.
11. Click "Save" to save the shape.
12. The new shape is now added to the "Shape List".

NOTE*** - The current UI relies on the middle mouse button to rotate the view.  If you are using a trackpad on a laptop, you are currently out of luck.  I am hoping to add trackpad support in a future build, as I use a MacBook Air as my daily driver, and I hate to carry a mouse around with me if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 10:36:27 AM
We've been busy creating over the past month, and are hoping to put together a build in the next day or two (Merry Christmas!).  In advance of that, here are a few of the things we have been working on:

1. BotLab - The chassis builder is really close.  Now @Tashic is working on the ability to add components.  Right now, there is only one component in the list, a 10" AmpFlow wheel.

2. Navmesh - We are using the new Unity NavMeshSurface component to dynamically generate Navmeshes.  This will allow for robots to navigate through user-generated arenas.

3. AI Pathfinding Lines - The current build draws lines to indicated where each robot is currently trying to drive to.  This includes pathfinding around obstacles.  It is really interesting to watch as each robot shifts its target path as it moves.

4. Pneumatics system components - Eruption is using a new pneumatics system behind the scenes in this build, with three new components: CO2 Cylinder, Buffer Tank, and Piston.  This new system will be incorporated into the BotLab in the "Actuators" section in a future build.  In order to build a pneumatics system in the game, there are four key attributes:
a. CO2 tank capacity - Dictates how many "shots" can be fired before running out of gas.
b. Buffer tank capacity - Controls the shape of the pressure vs extension curve for the piston.  In particular, this dictates the amount of pressure the piston sees when the piston is fully extended.
c. Piston stroke length - This controls the geometry of the system.  A longer flipper stroke means a greater flipper actuation distance, but also a lower pressure at full extension, and more gas used.
d. Piston diameter - This controls the force exerted by the piston.  A larger diameter piston means more force (proportional to diameter squared), but more gas used per stroke.

5. Arena Builder (PREVIEW COMING SOON!) - The arena builder is still in its infancy.  I don't think we will be ready to preview the arena builder on the next build, but hopefully we will have something to show soon!

6. Sumo Basho Arena - @AnarchyFox was kind enough to port this one over from a previous project.  It is super simple, looks great, and works really well for testing basic robot AI.

7. 5-Robot Limit - We are pushing the CPU really hard, and it looks like the limit to the number of robots in a given match is somewhere between 5-6 robots.  We are including a 5-player version of the "Test Arena" so people can see how chaotic things can get with 5 robots in one battle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on December 22, 2017, 10:56:29 AM
I like the idea of the pneumatic system having its own individual components. it feels like those parts could be adapted to serve in a similar fashion in crusher/hydraulic systems as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
I like the idea of the pneumatic system having its own individual components. it feels like those parts could be adapted to serve in a similar fashion in crusher/hydraulic systems as well.

That's what we were thinking too.  The extra parts definitely take up space, so there is now a balancing act to do, and you really need to decide if the extra space is worth it, versus just using motors.  It is also possible to run a pneumatic system without a buffer tank, but the amount of force produced is extremely limited by the rate of evaporation of the CO2 as it leave the high pressure tank.

Eruption is the gold standard, so I did some tweaking to get the numbers to feel right.  I'm thinking it is okay to have a pneumatics system that is less powerful than Eruption's but going much more powerful than that would be so weight- and space-inefficient that it shouldn't be worth the tradeoff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:03:38 PM
The new builds are up on our brand new itch.io page!

Here is the link:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

In addition to this thread, we will be posting periodic updates on Twitter: https://twitter.com/robotrumblegame (https://twitter.com/robotrumblegame)

The official website also contains a signup page for game-related emails.  When we are ready to go into beta testing, we are planning to use the email list for beta testers, so please sign up there if you are interested in Beta testing (hopefully next year!).  The official game website is: http://robot-rumble.com
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:07:11 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/5-robotrumble.png)

This is a picture of a 5-robot battle.  Note the lines indicating each robot AI's path to its target.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:08:55 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/sumobasho.png)

Sumo Basho!

This is a tricky arena against an AI opponent.  There isn't much space, and it is easy to accidentally fall off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:10:55 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/10inchwheelsonarobot.png)

10" AmpFlow wheels.  They are all you can add at the moment.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on December 22, 2017, 03:00:56 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 03:54:53 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Drat!  I will try to fix it tonight.  Sorry about that!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 04:51:25 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Fixed!  I accidentally included just the .exe, rather than the .zip with all of the files.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on December 22, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:
(https://i.gyazo.com/db062167e5f73f8d4692084a162e4f5f.jpg)

Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on December 22, 2017, 09:41:33 PM
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2017, 04:04:33 AM
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 08:12:56 AM
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Ahh yes!  Our first crash logs! :)

There are four of us building the game, and I was hoping that if were stable for all four of us on different machines that it would be stable for pretty much everyone.  I'm using a 2013 11" MacBook Air with Intel graphics myself, and it is running pretty well, but I do have 8 GB of RAM.  Maybe I can dust off an old Windows laptop from the closet to see if I can reproduce the crash...

Would you mind sending the crash log to developers@nerdislandstudios.com?

Also, details of your machine's OS and specifications would be really helpful.  Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 08:33:07 AM
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:
(https://i.gyazo.com/db062167e5f73f8d4692084a162e4f5f.jpg)

Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.

Agreed on all counts! 

Right now Eruption's "tactics" consist of the following:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. Fire flipper the instant you collide with enemy.
3. Back up slightly until the flipper is reset.
4. Repeat step #1.

Carbide is even simpler:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. When in range, turn on spinner.


We did a bunch of play testing with my robotics club students, and they found that the computer AI is frustratingly difficult to beat.  The computer is 100% agressive, and unlike in RA2, there is no "thinking delay" for the computer to evaluate its list of tactics.  All in all, I thought it was really good training for my students, who are going to take their real-life robots into battle at the end of February, but not so great for a game where it would be nice to be able to win against a computer opponent every once in a while.

There needs to be a balance, and, unless the game is designed to be AI vs AI, it isn't fair that a computer has zero reaction time when a human has a reaction time on the order of 2/10ths of a second.  On the flip side, the computer is stupid when it comes to hazards.  Right now it is not really avoiding hazards, it just marks an area around a hazard that is "not drivable".  As a human, you can exploit these areas by positioning yourself or the computer in them, then watch as the computer tries to get back to a drivable area.  It also doesn't have any sense of positioning itself or you with respect to the hazard, so you can use that to force the AI into a hazard.

I'm hoping that as I build out the AI system, things will start to come into better balance between computer and human.  We'll see. :)


After reading through a decade and a half of game development threads on here, I understand the sentiment about losing faith in abandoned development efforts.   The good news is that this is not Nerd Island Studios' first multi-year project, it is the fifth, and I am committed to seeing this one through.  It is, however, the most ambitious project I have ever started, and has required the development of more tech than any of the other projects.  We are shooting for a total development time of about 2000 hours, and I think we are on track for a mid-2019 launch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 09:55:14 AM
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!

Oh man, thanks for all of the great feedback!

1.  Thanks for pointing out camera control mapping.  I'm working on a MacBook without quick access to F-keys, so we might do number keys instead.  Either way, controls up at the top of the keyboard would probably work great. 
2.  Self-righting should be working.  I must have accidentally nerfed it when I rebuilt the pneumatics system.
3.  Damage is our next big thing to tackle.  Right now, damage is based entirely on Joules of energy absorbed, not on force.  This works great for things like "my robot just bashed into a wall and is taking internal damage as components are jostled", but completely ignores things like pincher weapons that apply a consistent force over time.  Right now I am thinking a hybrid of the two might be best.
4. Countdown timer -- check! :)
5. I'll defer to @tashic regarding the component maker. 
6. The ability to make arbitrary 3D shapes exists, but right now there is no texturing/materials.
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
8. I will defer to @tashic regarding attachment points as well.

This is a great list.  I expect to knock out a least a few of these over the next month or so.  The biggest one is damage, followed by a more robust AI system.  The game still doesn't feel right, with AI being *too* perfect.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2017, 10:30:54 AM
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
Prolly 4, as it would then be 1,2,3,4
Keep up the good work, and take your time (all of you guys)
Doing RW2016 arena ATM so if you need one, i can send you a model
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FOTEPX on December 23, 2017, 10:44:53 AM
Okay, so you actually added quite a lot of my suggestions! Nice one!  :claping

The only thing that doesn't seem to be added is:

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

...But I understand your point about getting the damage system right first before adding ripping off components as a factor.

Hmm... What else can I think of to add?

-More Robots!!!

-When I did the 4-bot rumble in the test arena, if me or my opponent died, the fight just ended instead of the remaining two fighting it out to a win. I'm guessing this is because 2+ players hasn't been properly implemented yet, and those two extra robots you added aren't recognised by the game as p3 and p4? Hmm...

-Whenever either the human or the AI wins a fight, the controls get jammed and the bot just keeps on doing whatever the last input was. For example, if you were going forward when you won the fight, you'll just keep going forward and run into a wall. I think you should be able to control your robot after the fight, instead of having it taken away from you.

-RUMBLE MODE!!! Select your bot, select "Rumble Mode" for the opponent bot, and then a slider shows up, that can go from 2 to 99. Yes, 100-bot rumbles. I don't care if it runs at 0.1FPS, I want it. The however-many bots are selected at random from the pool, as long as they're at the correct weight class.

-Ooh, speaking of weight classes, how about adding that in next? I know right now all the bots are HW, but just labelling them as such should help when you do add MW's, LW's, FW's, AW's etc...

Can't think of anything else right now, but I'm pretty sure stuff'll come to me around the same time the next update rolls around. Until then, keep up the hard work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 23, 2017, 05:51:00 PM

- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker

- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)


There already is a component maker, the way it works is that you make individual macro-parts (flippers, hammers, discs, whatever)
that I called "structures" by using groups of "shapes", and I have made a ra2 chassis style tool to make custom shapes.
These macro-parts can then be used in the "robot assembly" part of the botlab.

I'm still thinking how to handle attachment points, with the system that I made I don't think something exactly like ra2 is good, I can see attachments useful to set a custom "origin" point that isn't the center of the grid (or the center of mass as I will probably change).
I'm thinking of adding a snap function for moving/rotating/scaling parts in 3d space to allow for an easier time making symmetric robots if you don't want to type the exact values in the input fields.
And I plan to make a "center" function mainly for axles and wheels/spinners.

I'm now trying to figure out a way to make the system feel more natural, as I see it's not the most intuitive. But hopefully it will be worth it with a degree of freedom higher than in our current dsl ra2.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on December 23, 2017, 07:08:56 PM
Regarding attachment points, I think Kerbal Space Program has a decent builder which may be applicable to this game. There are attach points that are pre-defined on certain items, where you can only attach AP to AP. i.e a wheel onto a motor's axle. But also allowing other parts to snap freely onto a surface or part. i.e a tooth on a bar/disc for weapons, skirts on bodywork. It also has options for symmetry, precise snapping to a surface, translation and rotation tools as well, which I think would work well for a bot builder, in comparison to RA2 which is closer to LEGO-style building.

It would be nice to have defined weightclasses as well, but not have the limits, or the number of weightclasses be a set, unchangeable value.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 23, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
Yea, in fact I got heavy inspiration from KSP itself, with the move/rotate tools.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2018, 06:28:59 PM
I just put Robot Rumble 2.0 on an iPhone 7 Plus, and here is the result:

https://youtu.be/AXSi9qrPtWw (https://youtu.be/AXSi9qrPtWw)

The game runs solidly during combat, but the BotLab crashes as soon as you try to load it.  This might be fine -- a limited action-oriented version of the game for mobile/Apple TV/console, with the BotLab and Arena Builder reserved for the full version on Windows/Mac/Linux.

Speaking of which, has anyone tried the Linux build yet?  It should work okay, but I don't have a machine set up to test it.

Sometime over the next few days I am going to try to get the game running on Apple TV for local multiplayer with two controllers.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on January 01, 2018, 06:52:52 PM
Looks like it runs really well on mobile.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: mjstone on January 13, 2018, 09:24:40 PM
I've just downloaded the linux version and this is what I get.
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2018, 09:58:27 AM
I've just downloaded the linux version and this is what I get.
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Thanks for trying this!

I might have to create my own linux machine to test it.  Apparently the crash details are buried somewhere in a log file:

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LogFiles.html
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on January 16, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
Maybe i can try to test it.
Or you can use VM
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on January 16, 2018, 10:18:36 AM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on January 16, 2018, 12:12:29 PM
It's been a while but I don't remember input lag. I imagine it's your laptop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?

We haven't included any input lag in the simulation.  What are the specs for your laptop?  Are you using keyboard controls?

The game works great on my 2013 11" MacBook Air, but I am curious to see how low we can go with acceptable performance.  I am hoping to target midrange phones and WebGL.  Phones will probably be okay, but I'm struggling to get WebGL working, not sure why at this point.  We might have to wait for the Steam launch before looking into the WebGL version again.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on January 16, 2018, 05:34:48 PM
I didn't experience input lag but I'm on a mid-range machine
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on January 17, 2018, 02:41:59 AM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?

We haven't included any input lag in the simulation.  What are the specs for your laptop?  Are you using keyboard controls?

The game works great on my 2013 11" MacBook Air, but I am curious to see how low we can go with acceptable performance.  I am hoping to target midrange phones and WebGL.  Phones will probably be okay, but I'm struggling to get WebGL working, not sure why at this point.  We might have to wait for the Steam launch before looking into the WebGL version again.

After testing on my beefier desktop PC, the input lag seemed to disappear, so it seems it was just my laptop not being powerful enough.

My laptop specs are:
AMD Quad-Core Processor A6-6310 2.4GHz
6GB RAM
AMD Radeon R4 Graphics

It turns out the game only runs at 15fps on this (even on the fastest graphic setting), which is probably what was causing input issues. It was a lot smoother on my desktop
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 24, 2018, 02:26:32 PM
Seems cjbruce hasn't posted about it here yet but there's a new build out, with breakable components, new components for the bot lab, and a prototype version of the arena builder, among other things. I'm only posting about it because I want to offer some feedback:


Still looks great and feels great, though. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2018, 04:17:10 PM
Seems cjbruce hasn't posted about it here yet but there's a new build out, with breakable components, new components for the bot lab, and a prototype version of the arena builder, among other things. I'm only posting about it because I want to offer some feedback:

  • The new immobility countdown flickers a lot, which is irritating, and if multiple robots aren't moving then it switches between them rather than each robot having an individual countdown
  • The text is wonky on some of the buttons (esp. in the arena builder). Dunno if that's just coz I'm playing in 720p windowed mode though.
  • The sound balance feels off - some sounds are too loud, others are too quiet. Dunno if it's just me.
  • Eruption's flipper apparently has a limited amount of CO2 but I don't see that indicated anywhere in the UI - if the blue gauge is CO2, then it's not depleting
  • If you click "Help" in the Robot Lab, it spawns a fully-finished robot that then sinks through the table. You can spawn them indefinitely and fill the lab with them. Amusing, but probably not intended?

Still looks great and feels great, though. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say. Keep up the good work!

You beat me to the punch!

I was trying to concurrently wrap up this build and manage our high school's robot combat club.  Here a little taste of the last three days' festivities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkBFa6RCV0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkBFa6RCV0)

This new build has a lot going on behind the scenes.  I have been doing a ton of experimentation with driving, AI, and physics.  I also put in place the immobility timer.  There is also a component damage system, and Eruption is built with the new CO2 gas system.  Most of this stuff doesn't include any user feedback yet, so you won't know that a wheel is taking damage until it falls off, and you won't know if you are out of gas until the pneumatics stop working.  It is all there, we just need to add sound and particle effects so that there is an indication that something is wrong before it just stops working.

@tashic has been really busy with the BotLab.  It still isn't ready to make a complete robot, but a rudimentary saving system exists.  You can see the save files as robot.txt in one of the game directories.  At a minimum, we would like to get to the point where you can manually share robot files around like you do with RA2.   If we have time, we might be able to automate the process, but this is more of an aspirational goal at this point, and it is more important to nail down the basic functionality.

@anarchy_fox has been working hard on the Arena Builder.  A lot of the stuff from the BotLab should be reusable in here, but we are still very early in the development.

To everyone who has tested it already, thank you!

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 24, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
Gave the newest build a shot, it's starting to look like a very solid base for a full game. I've found some bugs and I have some suggestions.

Bugs:
Some z-fighting with the dummy bot, particularly on the warehouse stage. At one point the mesh floor on the warehouse briefly displayed over the dummy bot's decal.

Suggestions/Compaints:
Eruption's flipper feels super anaemic.
Carbide's spinner feels like it's very slow, but with a ton of torque.
Everything feels like it has way too much HP. Except once an AI Carbide's blade fell off just by hitting my Eruption, with no non-HP damage being cause to my Eruption.
It's difficult to figure out what's doing damage when Original Sin's opponent is taking damage. Is it impact with the arena wall? Contact with the wedge arm things? It feels inconsistent.
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
Eruption's limited CO2 supply is realistic, but not very fun at all, especially with how weak its flipper is. Maybe give a debug option to allow unlimited flips?
Part of what made RA2 so long-lasting was the fact that component data was stored in a user-editable format, allowing for customization. Would it be possible to read robot data from text files, allowing the user to edit carbine's spinner speed or eruption's flipper power, for example?

I had a couple more bugs and inconsistencies but I've forgotten them now. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: I also managed to flip the DB out of the sumo arena without the DB being killed or the round ending
(https://i.imgur.com/zGRbda1.jpg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on February 25, 2018, 02:45:17 AM
where can I find the latest build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 25, 2018, 03:07:20 AM
Link to the latest build:
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WeN on February 25, 2018, 04:49:04 AM
Link to the latest build:
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds
fixed
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on February 25, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
About that help button spawning a robot, that was really for testing the script for recreating from the bot file.

What I want to eventually do with the help button is, well, give the player some idea on what things in the botlab do, that I fully understand isn't clear at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on February 25, 2018, 05:45:11 AM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 25, 2018, 10:06:41 AM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Oh yeah, that was one of the bugs I forgot, Eruption always spawns facing backward.

Also might be nice if the dummy bot was invertible, so it can better serve its purpose as a punching bag. Just my personal opinion
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 25, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:13:54 PM
Gave the newest build a shot, it's starting to look like a very solid base for a full game. I've found some bugs and I have some suggestions.

Bugs:
Some z-fighting with the dummy bot, particularly on the warehouse stage. At one point the mesh floor on the warehouse briefly displayed over the dummy bot's decal.

Suggestions/Compaints:
Eruption's flipper feels super anaemic.
Carbide's spinner feels like it's very slow, but with a ton of torque.
Everything feels like it has way too much HP. Except once an AI Carbide's blade fell off just by hitting my Eruption, with no non-HP damage being cause to my Eruption.
It's difficult to figure out what's doing damage when Original Sin's opponent is taking damage. Is it impact with the arena wall? Contact with the wedge arm things? It feels inconsistent.
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
Eruption's limited CO2 supply is realistic, but not very fun at all, especially with how weak its flipper is. Maybe give a debug option to allow unlimited flips?
Part of what made RA2 so long-lasting was the fact that component data was stored in a user-editable format, allowing for customization. Would it be possible to read robot data from text files, allowing the user to edit carbine's spinner speed or eruption's flipper power, for example?

I had a couple more bugs and inconsistencies but I've forgotten them now. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: I also managed to flip the DB out of the sumo arena without the DB being killed or the round ending
(https://i.imgur.com/zGRbda1.jpg)

Nice catch on the z-fighting.  I need to get smart on Unity decals.  All of the robots were modeled in 3DS Max, rather than using the in-game BotLab, so we will need to revisit this when the BotLab is ready for production.

Carbide’s spinner is actually spinning very quickly, but the on-screen representation of its speed is poor.  The game only shows its position every 1/60th of a second rather than as the continuous blur that you would see in real life.  I was hoping that I could avoid addressing this, as it is a more difficult problem to create cylindrical blur for the arbitrary spinning objects that people will create in the BotLab.  I have a few ideas on how to do this, but it might take an iteration or two to get it to look right.

Thanks for the feedback on Eruption’s flipper.  It used to be insanely powerful, so I toned it way down. Increasing the force is an easy fix.  For those of you who are curious, the flipper has the following exposed variables, all of which will be adjustable in the BotLab:
piston diameter
piston stroke length
high pressure cylinder CO2 capacity
buffer tank volume

The lack of Hit Point indication is big problem.  I would like to avoid damage numbers appearing above the robots, like in RA2.  Ideally, a player will see sparks, smoke, damage decals, and hear sound to indicate how much damage has occurred to a particular component.  I would like to reserve damage numbers as a last resort.

The hit point bar shows damage only to the body of the robot.  Original Sin is surrounded by parts that take damage separately from the body (wheels and wedgelets).  You have to knock off these parts before you can start damaging the body of the robot easily.

The heat bar is pretty much nonfunctional at the moment.  The intent is to have heat dissipation, heat generation, and environmental heat sources (lava pit or flames).  When a motor overheats, it shuts down, and if temperature gets too high, components take damage.

I agree that there needs to be some indication of remaining CO2.  There also needs to be sn indication (venting gas) that a CO2 leak has occurred, and whether it is a slow leak or a catastrophic leak.

I like the idea of user-editable components. @tashic, is this something we can put into the BotLab directly?

I will take a look at the OOTA volumes for the Sumo Basho arena.  It should be a simple fix to add more volumes.

Thanks for all of the great feedback!  I’m pretty swamped with another project right now, but I hope to have another release out by the end of March.

Also, for those of you who are curious, we are planning to have public releases like these until the first Alpha release.  The first Alpha release will be the first “Vertical Slice” and contain all of the basic functionality for the game (BotLab fully integrated with the arena and arena builder).  After that, we will do closed Beta releases, so if you are interested in the closed Betas, be sure to sign up to be a beta-tester on www.robot-rumble.com!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising

This was a problem with the way models were imported from 3DS Max, and shouldn’t be an issue for things created in the BotLab.  Unless a miracle occurs and we can get permission to use Eruption in the released game, the problem will go away with the Eruption model.

Something is wrong with the Sumo Basho arena physics, but I haven’t been able to find the problem.  We might need to rebuild the arena when the Arena Builder is ready.

I kind of like seeing the AI path line.  You are probably right that we should turn it off though.  :smile:

Thanks for the support and feedback!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:27:02 PM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Oh yeah, that was one of the bugs I forgot, Eruption always spawns facing backward.

Also might be nice if the dummy bot was invertible, so it can better serve its purpose as a punching bag. Just my personal opinion

Agreed!  We have D.B. Mk II coming in the next build, so it will be an easy change to make.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:28:10 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 26, 2018, 05:04:35 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
It was just something I happened to notice while playing the latest build. What clinched it was when I started turning and the bar started filling up faster, because I had three motors running instead of one. Controlling overheating sounds like an interesting game mechanic (and should make it harder for people to make unrealistic bots with tonnes of weapon/drive motors ;) )
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on March 01, 2018, 07:36:46 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
It was just something I happened to notice while playing the latest build. What clinched it was when I started turning and the bar started filling up faster, because I had three motors running instead of one. Controlling overheating sounds like an interesting game mechanic (and should make it harder for people to make unrealistic bots with tonnes of weapon/drive motors ;) )

Yeah that's pretty great
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 01:11:26 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 01:13:24 PM
What does D.B. stand for
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 18, 2018, 02:43:04 PM
What does D.B. stand for

  :bigsmile:

No one is quite sure, but we are open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 18, 2018, 02:47:42 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.

The BotLab is our biggest push right now, in addition to cleaning up the physics for each robots.  We are tuning dynamics, and once with have dialed things in we will need to figure out how to translate all of the hand-built stuff into the BotLab.

A mobile port is firmly in the "nice to have" category until we can get a solid version up an running for Windows/Mac/Linux.  Rethinking everything for mobile will take some work, and our team is pretty small.

That being said, here's a video of me fighting an AI robot on an iPhone 7 Plus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:53:39 PM
Which is the latest version, the one here, or the one on the official website
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:55:07 PM
What does D.B. stand for

  :bigsmile:

No one is quite sure, but we are open to suggestions.



Dummy Bot, Dumb Box, Dummy box, or Dumb Bot
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:56:38 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.

The BotLab is our biggest push right now, in addition to cleaning up the physics for each robots.  We are tuning dynamics, and once with have dialed things in we will need to figure out how to translate all of the hand-built stuff into the BotLab.

A mobile port is firmly in the "nice to have" category until we can get a solid version up an running for Windows/Mac/Linux.  Rethinking everything for mobile will take some work, and our team is pretty small.

That being said, here's a video of me fighting an AI robot on an iPhone 7 Plus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw)


If possible, can you make is w/o the xbox controller thing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2018, 10:27:13 PM
@Ra2Winner999
Please don't make multiple posts in a row. Instead, edit your previous post and add whatever you want to say onto it.

@cjbruce
I don't mean to be pushy, but is there an ETA for the next build's release? I'm really looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 05:41:58 AM
@Ra2Winner999
Please don't make multiple posts in a row. Instead, edit your previous post and add whatever you want to say onto it.

@cjbruce
I don't mean to be pushy, but is there an ETA for the next build's release? I'm really looking forward to it.

Our school is on spring break next week, so I'm hoping to have a good solid chunk of development time in the mornings and to release a new development build sometime during the week. 

In the past few weeks @tashic has been working on putting together the beginnings of a help menu, and I have been cleaning up the driving dynamics.  @Anarchy_Fox modeled up D.B. Mk II, a thwackbot with a chain flail that should be really exciting to drive ("spin to win!"), and I have been trying to get its spin speed up to the point where the 2 kg metal cudgel at the end does damage.  Right now all it does is bounce off its opponents without doing much.  It should be more like a cheaper, less effective version of carbide with a much larger effective radius.

The latest and greatest build will always be available on itch.io at https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2018, 05:56:10 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 06:17:46 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2018, 06:27:34 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Great to hear! Another question, are you planning on having AI bots be part of the .exe of the game (like how it is now) or separated out into their own files, like how RA2 does it?

Since RW is dead now, if you ask nicely you might be able to get permission from the builders of at least Eruption and Carbide to use their bots, maybe after a rename/recolour to avoid copyright issues w/ Mentorn. I know the builder of Eruption used to post on GTM pretty regularly so I'd be surprised if he were against the idea. Just thinking since it would be a shame for the work that's gone into modelling and implementing these bots to go to waste.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 02:48:59 PM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Great to hear! Another question, are you planning on having AI bots be part of the .exe of the game (like how it is now) or separated out into their own files, like how RA2 does it?

Since RW is dead now, if you ask nicely you might be able to get permission from the builders of at least Eruption and Carbide to use their bots, maybe after a rename/recolour to avoid copyright issues w/ Mentorn. I know the builder of Eruption used to post on GTM pretty regularly so I'd be surprised if he were against the idea. Just thinking since it would be a shame for the work that's gone into modelling and implementing these bots to go to waste.

@tashic has a preliminary format worked out for saving robot designs to a text file.  Right now it is just the shapes, but eventually will need to be expanded to include things like textures and AI.  The file is all human-readable, but much of it is vertex positions, so not particularly interesting.  I'll let him give more details. :)

We haven't nailed down an architecture for saving everything about a robot yet.  I am hoping to make each robot atomic, with a file describing the robot + another few files for textures.  We haven't talked this through, and there is a ton of work left to do to make this happen.

Wow!  I had no idea about Robot Wars!  This is what I get for living on the wrong side of the pond.  I think you are right though -- if we are going to keep the interest in robot combat going, we need to make a concerted effort to engage the most successful teams.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 10:54:14 AM
We have a new build coming sometime in the next day or so!  One of the biggest things in this build is a completely revamped UI.  We are still frantically trying to squash bugs before we put it out to the public, but will get it to you guys as soon as we can.

While I have some time this morning, I wanted to put together a detailed list of things that are coming in the next build:

[Additions]
New UI - We are in the early stages of a complete UI overhaul.  So far we have touched the “Battle” menu and the in-game "Pause" menu.  Nothing is final yet, as this is the first iteration and we are having a lot of internal discussions about what needs to go where.
BotLab Help Menu - We now have a working help menu.  If you are stuck and can’t figure out what to do next, please give the help menu a try!
New Sumo Basho Arena - The old arena suffered from some bizarre physics bugs and z-fighting.  The new one is a lot cleaner.
D.B. Mk II - This robot is a thwackbot with a chain flail.  We are having trouble with the chain physics.  If we can’t figure out how to make the chain simulation more stable, it is highly likely that it will be removed from the game.  We included it here because it is fun and funky and would be a shame if it didn’t see the light of day at least as a prototype!
Arena Spinner (currently in the Warehouse arena) - The arena spinner is deadly!  One hard hit will send a robot flying out of the Warehouse.
Individual Immobility Timers - Timers now hover over individual robots.
Sparks! - Carbide and the arena spinner both emit sparks on impact.

[Changes]
Physics - We have done extensive tweaking of physics in order to increase the turning and spinning speed of robots.  Angular velocity of robots is no longer capped at 7 radians/second (a little over 1 revolution per second).  This has caused some instability issues that we will need to iron out through testing.
Deferred Rendering Pipeline (Graphics) - We switched all game cameras from Forward Rendering to Deferred Rendering.  This should allow for more lights in the scene, but comes at the cost of lack of compatibility with older devices.  Since we are targeting desktop, this should not be an issue.  The change has also allowed for much more consistent HDR lighting across scenes.
Bloom (Graphics) - Toned down the bloom effect in the postprocessing stack.  If it is still too “bloomy”, please let us know!
Motion Blur (Graphics) - Removed motion blur entirely.  We included motion blur in an attempt to provide an indication of how fast Carbide’s blade is actually spinning, as it is currently subject to the “wagon wheel effect”.  Unfortunately, motion blur made everything else look grainy and terrible, and it induces nausea for some players, so it was removed.
Lighting - After switching to deferred rendering, it was necessary to recalibrate lighting for every scene.

[Removals]
Old Sumo Basho Arena - The old Sumo Basho arena has been removed.
Over-The-Shoulder Camera - “Over the shoulder” cameras have been entirely removed.  Because robots move so quickly, it was nauseating trying to drive a robot with the over-the-should camera.

Here's a shot of the arena spinner in action!
(http://www.nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/arenaspinnerhitseruptionvsoriginalsin.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
Looking very interesting! Any tweaks to weaponry (Eruption's flipper power, carbide's spinner speed etc)?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on March 28, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Cant wait for the new build! any pics of the flail bot
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:17:17 AM
Looking very interesting! Any tweaks to weaponry (Eruption's flipper power, carbide's spinner speed etc)?

Eruption - The flipper is 4 times more powerful than before.  It is maybe a tad too overpowered, but it is more fun now. :)

Carbide - The spinner has always rotated way faster than the Nyquist frequency of the screen (nominally 60 Hz).  I spent a lot of time trying to deal with this by adding things like motion blur and adjusting the visual representation of the spinner vs the physical simulation, but in the end, I think the solution is simple: sparks.  With sparks you know when the spinner hits.

Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.  D.B. ad D.B. Mk II are both based on student work, and @AnarchyFox is currently modeling "Ballerina", a drumbot that was fairly successful in our student competition last year.  Ballerina won't make it into this build, but should be available in the next one.



Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 28, 2018, 11:22:45 AM
Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.
What's the chance you can leave in "Generic Bar Spinner", "Generic UK style Flipper" and "Generic 4WD Wedge bot"?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:34:46 AM
Cant wait for the new build! any pics of the flail bot

Here's a low-res shot of D.B. Mk II vs Original Sin.  D.B. Mk II resulted when my students attached a flail to D.B..  It ended up working out really well in real life.  Its simulated version is, unfortunately, not as effective.

(http://www.nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/dbmk2vsoriginalsin.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:39:30 AM
Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.
What's the chance you can leave in "Generic Bar Spinner", "Generic UK style Flipper" and "Generic 4WD Wedge bot"?

We are looking to create a bunch of all-new robot designs that don't infringe upon any existing IPs.  If anyone has any of their own IRL robots that they would be willing to send photos of, we might just be able to put them in the game.

Aside from that, once the BotLab is working, we are hoping that you guys go nuts with your own designs. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
The new build is now available for download:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on March 28, 2018, 02:36:06 PM
Eruption - The flipper is 4 times more powerful than before.  It is maybe a tad too overpowered, but it is more fun now. :)
You'll regret that.
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2018, 04:01:02 PM
I feel like the force curve on Eruption's flipper is a bit off, I think maybe either the force is applied over too long a period, or maybe the force doesn't peak quickly enough (awful pic below to explain what I mean), both leading the flipper to feel a bit unsatisfying and unrealistic. That and Eruption's flipper is very inconsistent; sometimes feeling barely less anaemic than before and other times exploding like the gif Guldenflame posted above, or sometimes behaving in a way anywhere between those two extremes. I personally think it would be a good use of time to polish the feel of eruption's flipper and iron out the explosion bug, even if Eruption is not long for this game, as I'm sure it would serve you well if you chose to create another AI flipper or a component that allows the user to create flippers in the botlab.

Awful pic:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on March 28, 2018, 06:24:40 PM
the flail on db2 is pretty buggy, i've gotten it to glitch out of the warehouse map quite a few times

the ai on eruption doesn't seem to want to self-right until the countdown timer starts which is pretty easily abusable

other than that, big fan of this so far :) can't wait to see where it goes in the future
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on March 28, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
In addition to the glitches that Badnik mentioned there's also some kind of glitch with Eruption's self righting when controlled by a player. It tends to glitch out and launch the bot around and usually out of the arena even from the opposite side of the ring.

Gonna echo Badnik's praise though. This is the first build I've played of the game and the combat is already fun and addictive as hell. The botlab looks incredibly promising too. Will be watching how things develop extremely eagerly  :thumbup
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
I feel like the force curve on Eruption's flipper is a bit off, I think maybe either the force is applied over too long a period, or maybe the force doesn't peak quickly enough (awful pic below to explain what I mean), both leading the flipper to feel a bit unsatisfying and unrealistic. That and Eruption's flipper is very inconsistent; sometimes feeling barely less anaemic than before and other times exploding like the gif Guldenflame posted above, or sometimes behaving in a way anywhere between those two extremes. I personally think it would be a good use of time to polish the feel of eruption's flipper and iron out the explosion bug, even if Eruption is not long for this game, as I'm sure it would serve you well if you chose to create another AI flipper or a component that allows the user to create flippers in the botlab.

Awful pic:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Right now the pressure in the pneumatic cylinder is computed based on the Ideal Gas law, using the volume in the gas lines, buffer tank volume, and volume in the cylinder.  The pressure starts at a maximum value and then drops inversely proportional to the increase in volume as the piston slides out of the cylinder:


// currentPressure is measured in PSI
currentPressure = massRatio * Mathf.Max (minimumOperatingPressure, operatingPressure * (volumeInGasLines + bufferVolume) / (volumeInGasLines + bufferVolume + crossSectionalArea * strokeLength));

I think the erratic behavior might be due to the fact that the piston was set to "discrete" collisions, rather than "continuous dynamic".  I'll switch this and see if it affects anything.  Although I like the idea of the Ideal Gas model, I have a lot of room to cheat the system to get it feeling better.  In the end the most important thing is that it feels right, so I will keep working on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on March 29, 2018, 01:41:23 AM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on March 29, 2018, 01:41:48 AM
Ok imma egnore or the glitches and buggyness and say that this is very impressive. With things to add to the next update there a few things I think should be added. More bot types e.g thwak bot, axe, drum, etc.
I would also add an arena that dos'nt make eruption win each fight e.g the battlebots and combat arena
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Olister92 on March 29, 2018, 06:27:37 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:01:34 AM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.

Nice catch!  I will definitely take a look at this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:04:00 AM
In addition to the glitches that Badnik mentioned there's also some kind of glitch with Eruption's self righting when controlled by a player. It tends to glitch out and launch the bot around and usually out of the arena even from the opposite side of the ring.

Gonna echo Badnik's praise though. This is the first build I've played of the game and the combat is already fun and addictive as hell. The botlab looks incredibly promising too. Will be watching how things develop extremely eagerly  :thumbup

This has been sitting on the list of stuff to fix for a while, but got buried when I was working on the new immobility timer.  I am thinking a 1-second delay before self-righting should work...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Olister92 on March 29, 2018, 10:50:05 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 12:00:53 PM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.

It is good to know though.  @Olister92, thank you for sharing!

I am toying with the idea of supporting really old hardware.  This comes with other advantages, like being able to throw unlimited numbers of robots in the ring together.  Right now I am tweaking everything for two robots, and am pushing physics to the maximum.

If we were willing to give up a bunch of physics fidelity by going to a "magic mobility" system where the forces on an object are drastically simplified like in RA2, we could get by on RA2-like hardware.  I'm not convinced that it would be worth it though.  The current high-fidelity physics should be able to handle arbitrary shapes created in the BotLab.  If you want a pneumatics system, you build it from scratch.  All of the hinges and sliding joints are modeled individually.  You couldn't do this in RA2, where everything was made of prebuilt components.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 01:23:58 PM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.

Nice catch!  I will definitely take a look at this.

I think I just fixed this one, but we will have to confirm in the next public build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 02:57:07 PM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.

It is good to know though.  @Olister92, thank you for sharing!

I am toying with the idea of supporting really old hardware.  This comes with other advantages, like being able to throw unlimited numbers of robots in the ring together.  Right now I am tweaking everything for two robots, and am pushing physics to the maximum.

If we were willing to give up a bunch of physics fidelity by going to a "magic mobility" system where the forces on an object are drastically simplified like in RA2, we could get by on RA2-like hardware.  I'm not convinced that it would be worth it though.  The current high-fidelity physics should be able to handle arbitrary shapes created in the BotLab.  If you want a pneumatics system, you build it from scratch.  All of the hinges and sliding joints are modeled individually.  You couldn't do this in RA2, where everything was made of prebuilt components.

For future reference, here are the Geekbench 4 scores for my MacBook Air.  It turns out it is an early 2014 model, not a 2013.  I am shooting for frame rates around 60 fps, with occasional dips to 30 fps.

MacBook Air (11-inch Early 2014)
Single-Core Score: 2428 (this is the one that should matter, as physics is running on one core)
Multi-Core Score: 5026

On Geekbench 4, the Acer Aspire ES1-512 laptop is averaging around the following:
Single-Core Score: 1200
Multi-Core Score: 1800

@Olister92, the Geekbench scores seem to corroborate the low frame rates you are seeing.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Acer+Aspire+ES1-512 (https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Acer+Aspire+ES1-512)

I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 29, 2018, 03:41:10 PM
I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
I have a Surface Book with i7-6600u. Can't really find an accurate score for it but I can benchmark for you.
I could also throttle down my desktop if that helps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 03:55:45 PM
I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
I have a Surface Book with i7-6600u. Can't really find an accurate score for it but I can benchmark for you.
I could also throttle down my desktop if that helps.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Surface+Book+i7-6600u (https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Surface+Book+i7-6600u)

It looks like the Surface Book is running around 3400 for a single CPU score.  I'm thinking it should run the game at a solid 60 fps, but it also has a high resolution screen, which might bring GPU fill rate into play and slow things down.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2018, 07:15:03 PM
I would suggest that the bottleneck for the Acer laptop is the integrated graphics, not the CPU for this particular workload
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 08:02:37 PM
I would suggest that the bottleneck for the Acer laptop is the integrated graphics, not the CPU for this particular workload

Considering it scored 1483 (vs 16839 for my MacBook) on the OpenCL GPU test, you are probably right.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on April 01, 2018, 10:02:53 AM
Nice game!! It's so addictive and here are some of my suggestions.
1.Maybe it can be added something like weapon designing. Build the shape of the blade, the var, the flipper and the axe etc. whatever we like, and choose the material to attach to their weight. I think it could be of great fun. Also the paint job should be various as well so players can create their own best-looking robots.(such as typing words in different shapes)
2.The spinners should be more powerful, it's always embarrassing to see Carbide ripping Original Sin apart and then died incredibly.
3.When a robot end up with no life, it might be more real if it stops moving and been counted down, with the other side spinning around.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 01, 2018, 10:35:16 AM
Nice game!! It's so addictive and here are some of my suggestions.
1.Maybe it can be added something like weapon designing. Build the shape of the blade, the var, the flipper and the axe etc. whatever we like, and choose the material to attach to their weight. I think it could be of great fun. Also the paint job should be various as well so players can create their own best-looking robots.(such as typing words in different shapes)
2.The spinners should be more powerful, it's always embarrassing to see Carbide ripping Original Sin apart and then died incredibly.
3.When a robot end up with no life, it might be more real if it stops moving and been counted down, with the other side spinning around.

Thanks for the input!

1. In progress! :) - The BotLab's shape designer will be capable of making shapes for anything: chassis, weapons, etc.
2. This should be fixed in the next build.
3. Will do.  I haven't worked on this yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on April 04, 2018, 06:49:12 PM
It's Nightmare!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 05, 2018, 01:08:36 PM
It's Nightmare!

Diggin' it!  I can't wait until we can get texturing working.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 07, 2018, 01:16:46 PM
A new build is out! Go to the itch.io page for the latest version:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

In this build we focused heavily on the BotLab, but we also added "Ballerina", a drum bot, and made more tweaks to physics and particle effects.

The new Main Menu:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/mainmenu-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

Ballerina vs D.B. Mk II:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/ballerinavsDBMkII-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

The BotLab:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/RobotLab-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

As always, to keep up to date and/or to join our list for Beta Builds, see our website at http://robot-rumble.com, or follow us on Twitter at @RobotRumbleGame.  We're doing our best to go to the IRL robot combat events in the UK.  Next up is Robot Extreme in Guildford this weekend!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on June 07, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
I had a quick play with the new build, my feedback:

- Eruption's flipper feels really nice now. Great work on tweaking that!
- Both spinners, however, do not. Their blades/drums are going orders of magnitude too slow. Is this a limitation of the unity engine?
- Carbide's bar is rotating off-center and it looks really derpy
- PLEASE make the Esc key open the pause menu, not close the game!
- I like the addition of the drumbot
- I think the inactivity timer is really well implemented, both mechanically and visually. Great work there.

Good to see some progress. I haven't messed around in the botlab at all, are the bots made there useable in battle yet?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on June 07, 2018, 02:14:18 PM
This is looking very nice, I like it a lot. I don't have much feedback, but Carbide's bar only has an ON setting and nothing to turn it off, which feels kinda weird honestly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on June 07, 2018, 02:19:13 PM
Feedback:
Loving the damage that you're starting to implement, fun to see and really forces you to adapt.

Carbide - The bar itself seems to spin rather slow given the damage output it gives, giving the bar a blur effect would really give the player the info that it's super fast and will be dealing that kinds of damage.

Eruption - The flipper seems really powerful when self righting, thus I take a good amount of damage for landing,  other than that the motors clip out the back which is an issue. Tho it also appear to be a general issue as I've seen it with Carbide.

Original Sin - The wedges do seem to be rather weak in comparison to the wheels, a few hits from carbide can result in losing them


BotLab -The motors as weapons are rather bulky to use, I suggest having some belt options or a way to adding belts to change the center point of spinning.

Overall, great additions and improvements, loving the build keep it up

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 07, 2018, 02:33:58 PM
Ooh shiny! I’m on my tablet right now, so when I get to my laptop I’ll play!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 07, 2018, 02:51:38 PM
I had a quick play with the new build, my feedback:

- Eruption's flipper feels really nice now. Great work on tweaking that!
- Both spinners, however, do not. Their blades/drums are going orders of magnitude too slow. Is this a limitation of the unity engine?
- Carbide's bar is rotating off-center and it looks really derpy
- PLEASE make the Esc key open the pause menu, not close the game!
- I like the addition of the drumbot
- I think the inactivity timer is really well implemented, both mechanically and visually. Great work there.

Good to see some progress. I haven't messed around in the botlab at all, are the bots made there useable in battle yet?

1. It took a lot of tweaking to get the flipper physics working well.  I'm glad you like it! :)
2. I have been exploring a bunch of spinner options, and I think I have settled on a path to make them look/feel right.  Unfortunately, none of those explorations were ready for this build.  They may or may not be ready for the Alpha release, where we will be stressing the BotLab and end-to-end building/testing/battle, but I anticipate high-speed weapons will be really important as part of the Beta process.
3. You are right about the spinner -- the existing spinner will be completely replaced as part of #2, but we are looking to make sure spin axes are appropriate for all spinning objects.
4. [ESC] key -- We still have work to do on UI, and I promise we will fix this! :)
5. Ballerina will be in the official release! :)
6. Inactivity timer -- hopefully this is close to what we will go with.
7. Nothing produced in the BotLab is usable yet.  That is our next major milestone, and will be the key milestone for our Alpha Release.  We will have a booth during the recording for the "BuggleBots" web series in the UK in September, and we are pushing to have a show-ready game for people to try at the event.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on June 07, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Loving this update! The new botlab is much easier to navigate and build on. I really like the custom parts option and all of the helpful tips with each step in the bot building process. Also, the new bots are fantastic and look great There's only a few minor bugs I've noticed:

Eruption seems to spawn backwards during each match.
Sometimes arenas such as the Warehouse and Lava Pit start randomly flashing.
The caution texture in the arena editor instead changes the texture to blank white.

Overall, this is a really great update and I can't wait to see what the next one will bring. Keep up the fantastic work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dark-Al on June 07, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
I had some good fun playing around with this update. Trying to see what kind of bot that I can build or/and possibly break the game  in someway. Regardless,  I do have some suggestions on how the bot lab could be greatly improved:
 1. Hotkey shortcuts. Being used to 3d modeling software and other programs. It's a little annoying when you have to press a button on the side bar to do anything in the bot lab, when someone is used to hitting one key to perform an action. For me and other players, it more about having the convenience of just hitting a key on the keyboard to active a function, instead of having to reach over for a button to perform the action. Some ideas could be that having a delete key to remove a part, maybe one key for each adjustment for height, rotation and scale, and a button to undo an past action.

2. Part duplication a.k.a Copying and Pasting. I'm aware that you can save personal preferences on certain parts, but if I was to make a bot with multiple wedgelets on the front, I don't want to go through the pain of saving the part, then dragging said part into place. Instead there should be a way how the player can copy a part, and paste the part right next to the part they customized, so that they may wish to align the part on the same line as the first part, instead of possibly having to drag multiple parts in the scene, then going through the horror of perfectly aligning them all up to the first one. 

3. Undoing mistakes. I put a battery in the scene, but I messed up the rotation and moved it further away from where it should be. I don't want to go through the time consuming effort of trying to correct my mistake. Instead there should be an option allowing the player to revert their mistake back to the point when the player just got the position all right. This implementation may be difficult to fully work in some areas, but this will be helpful to any player when they are building a bot.

Overall, I'm enjoying to see the overall progress of the game. Sure there are a few problems that need ironing out here and there, but once all  that is all sorted, you'll have a game that'll be look up upon by the community. Anyway, I'll be looking forward for the next update when it does come out then.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on June 07, 2018, 04:31:18 PM
https://youtu.be/QrUyHWJysy4

Here's something I noticed happening a few times with Original Sin. One of the wedgelets will break and fly off, then suddenly act as if its still attached.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 07, 2018, 06:35:31 PM
Feedback: Love the game! Though here are some suggestions.

1. Sometimes both bots disappear.

2. Carbide’s weapon sometimes has AGOD.

3. Carbide’s weapon is overpowered. And it doesn’t even spin fast! Slightly nerf the damage; but buff the speed 700%

4. Make the test arena less laggy. And related to the test arena, make it so there is a set spawn. Not just 2 bots showing up in random places.

(Edit) 5. Original Sin’s wedge is too flimsy. This bot takes hits from Last Rites IRL for crying out loud!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on June 07, 2018, 08:20:56 PM
yeah spinners as a whole are way too weak in this build. also why isn't ballerina invertible? db 2.0's flail is still super buggy (i dont think i had any fights where it didnt glitch the game) as well. i feel like fights as a whole are too short.

other than that, things are going great!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on June 07, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
man. this is nuts.

made a sexy robot
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

some really neat features in here. im very impressed with what you guys have done, it's far and away the most complete robot builder i've seen besides ra2. I hope the work continues, I can't wait to see where it goes. especially interested in the bot creator. got some very good things so far, I'm especially happy with the custom shapes you can make, ra2 needed a feature like this.

incredible work so far. bot lab has got me excited

i have some bug issues with fighting however, not sure if others are having this. saw phil able to drive his bot but when I try to do a match it always ends immediately after the countdown, and says player 1 has won.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
this happens even if I set both players to cpu. I may be doing something wrong but if it's a bug I thought I'd let you guys know.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on June 07, 2018, 10:45:42 PM
Spent a couple hours in the bot builder. It's clunky but obviously you guys know that. I think this has a potential and I'm excited to see how far it goes.

Here's the FS I tried to make:

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Once we can save things we might be seeing some showcases :O

I think the custom shapes in particular will cause a huge change in the way we build. Due to how precise building can be, it might take a lot more time to make a competitive robot though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WeN on June 08, 2018, 01:13:07 AM
Better than a Robot Arena 3's broken bot builder.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on June 08, 2018, 02:58:22 AM
A lot of people have already mentioned how glitchy this build is and how weak spinners but thats all been said so the only thing ive got a big issue with is the weapons you can use on bot building as the drum is a very unusual shape honestly. I would make it 2 full teeth on each side rather than what we have now. A bit more like the pre made drum spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 08, 2018, 07:30:33 AM
man. this is nuts.

made a sexy robot
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

some really neat features in here. im very impressed with what you guys have done, it's far and away the most complete robot builder i've seen besides ra2. I hope the work continues, I can't wait to see where it goes. especially interested in the bot creator. got some very good things so far, I'm especially happy with the custom shapes you can make, ra2 needed a feature like this.

incredible work so far. bot lab has got me excited

i have some bug issues with fighting however, not sure if others are having this. saw phil able to drive his bot but when I try to do a match it always ends immediately after the countdown, and says player 1 has won.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
this happens even if I set both players to cpu. I may be doing something wrong but if it's a bug I thought I'd let you guys know.

Reinstall the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FightingBotInformal on June 08, 2018, 07:38:17 AM
please don’t be as clueless as robotfan99
I thought you were more clueless. Guess I was wrong then.
/sarcasm
EDIT: Anyways BOT since I'm done volunteering I'll download the game and see if there are some not-so IRL issues in it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: NeonCalypso on June 08, 2018, 08:00:48 AM
I really want to give this game a try, thanks for making this exciting game  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 08, 2018, 02:03:54 PM
please don’t be as clueless as robotfan99
I thought you were more clueless. Guess I was wrong then.
/sarcasm
  :realmad(

Edit: On topic, I have been experiencing some Havok Explosion esque glitches.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 09, 2018, 08:28:55 AM
will it be a vertical spinner or axe next time?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 09, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
Can we get Linux builds? I'd like to test this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 10, 2018, 03:48:37 AM
I tried my best to find a pc and test it.
I quite like it.
Only thing i kinda want is camera options. Now idk with which buttons you change cameras, but it would be great if you used fn keys (unless you are already). Maybe even add a behind bot camera (like with Eruption in older build)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 14, 2018, 03:01:57 PM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 14, 2018, 03:16:39 PM
Can we get Linux builds? I'd like to test this.

Unity will do Linux builds, but I have had zero success getting them to run under a Ubuntu VM on my development machine.  When I click on the icon for the build, nothing happens, and I'm not smart enough with linux to dig beneath the surface to determine what is going on.  If you are interested in giving it a shot, I have posted a nonworking Linux build to itch.io.  Please let me know how it goes!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 14, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 15, 2018, 06:11:34 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 15, 2018, 07:23:16 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 15, 2018, 10:53:31 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.

Thanks for the tip!  I’m not sure about Early Access yet.  At this point we are limited more by time than funding.  If we were to do Early Access, I would like to keep its time period short.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on June 15, 2018, 11:52:22 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.

Thanks for the tip!  I’m not sure about Early Access yet.  At this point we are limited more by time than funding.  If we were to do Early Access, I would like to keep its time period short.
do what you need to do man. it's easy to cave into even small pressures on projects like this. you're never going to be short on people offering their two cents. I hope that you can take as much time as you can to make a quality game, but I also know that deadlines and costs and such can be very burdensome.

what you've shown is extremely impressive, likely the most finished robot combat game we've had in years already. I hope your team is able to finish it, and I'd buy it as soon as I could.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 19, 2018, 05:41:11 PM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 19, 2018, 06:17:02 PM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.

Seems itchio/hwcdn was having issues with either my double NAT or my ISP. Had to download (slooowly) while proxying through another network. ( If you want a better CDN, hit me up on DM, that's my line of work :) ).

So, tested this for a few minutes on Gentoo Linux (Kernel 4.14.10), with my integrated Intel HD Graphics 530 (GL 4.5, GLES 3.2) and Intel i7-6700k and 32GB of RAM. I know, the graphics aren't great, but other games work okay at full HD on low graphics (I play Talos Principle on this machine quite a bit, @30FPS).

What works:
 - game launches! full screen only, can't seem to window it (tried alt-enter)
 - 1v1 combat launches
 - botlab launches

What doesn't work:
 - any sort of performance (menus are sluggish, combat view is around 5FPS)
 - smoke (?) particles during combat - they get rendered with a white background
 - building a robot - I get stuck on 'collision mode' selection, when I click any of the buttons I get a textured box but no wireframe and can't advance to next step

Player.log: https://q3k.org/u/9f1843023508c15946e0bd26ef9e4aa8f052a9bb140bf408be46ef58e7423872.log

If you tell me how I can get this resized to a window, I'll get you some screenshots / recordings. Oh, and any chance you could also release a 64-bit Linux build?

Thanks for the Linux build!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 21, 2018, 07:29:17 AM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.

Seems itchio/hwcdn was having issues with either my double NAT or my ISP. Had to download (slooowly) while proxying through another network. ( If you want a better CDN, hit me up on DM, that's my line of work :) ).

So, tested this for a few minutes on Gentoo Linux (Kernel 4.14.10), with my integrated Intel HD Graphics 530 (GL 4.5, GLES 3.2) and Intel i7-6700k and 32GB of RAM. I know, the graphics aren't great, but other games work okay at full HD on low graphics (I play Talos Principle on this machine quite a bit, @30FPS).

What works:
 - game launches! full screen only, can't seem to window it (tried alt-enter)
 - 1v1 combat launches
 - botlab launches

What doesn't work:
 - any sort of performance (menus are sluggish, combat view is around 5FPS)
 - smoke (?) particles during combat - they get rendered with a white background
 - building a robot - I get stuck on 'collision mode' selection, when I click any of the buttons I get a textured box but no wireframe and can't advance to next step

Player.log: https://q3k.org/u/9f1843023508c15946e0bd26ef9e4aa8f052a9bb140bf408be46ef58e7423872.log

If you tell me how I can get this resized to a window, I'll get you some screenshots / recordings. Oh, and any chance you could also release a 64-bit Linux build?

Thanks for the Linux build!

Thanks for taking a look!  I just uploaded a 64-bit Linux version, so hopefully that makes a difference.  I just figured out how to do a windowed Linux version, so I am building that now and should have the up later today.

Aside from that, I worry that I don't have enough experience with Linux to troubleshoot and clean things up.  It might be the case that the Linux version isn't meant to be -- I don't want to put something up on Steam that is horrible and buggy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 21, 2018, 07:36:14 AM
A windowed, 64-bit Linux version is up on itch.io.  Hopefully this helps!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 29, 2018, 08:39:02 PM
It's been a while, but we've been tooling away over the summer, and we finally did it!  The BotLab can now create drivable robots!

Here is the first robot ever driven in the Robot Rumble 2 BotLab.  It doesn't look like much, but it is a huge milestone for the game:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/firsteverbotlabrobot.gif)

Now that you can drive robots you create in the BotLab, expect an Alpha launch soon!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on August 29, 2018, 08:54:38 PM
awesome  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on August 30, 2018, 03:57:09 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on August 30, 2018, 02:30:01 PM
That’s really cool. I’m also loving the aesthetic of the test arena
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on August 30, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
This is awesome




Will be able to create our own arenas for the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 30, 2018, 03:21:31 PM
This is awesome




Will be able to create our own arenas for the game?

Thanks for that! :)

We need to get the BotLab up to speed first before we worry about the arena editor.  A lot of the code should be reusable between the two.

In my mind right now, the priority list goes as follows:

1. Improving the BotLab user experience, making it able to create robots that are of the same quality as the robots that are currently built into the game.
2. Creating "the game": tournaments, achievements, etc.
3. Adding user-configurable AI to robots in the BotLab.
4. Building out the arena editor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 30, 2018, 03:42:11 PM
Also, if you haven't checked it out already, we are regularly posting progress updates and videos on Twitter: ‎@RobotRumbleGame

We are shooting to get the Alpha release, including the working BotLab (still buggy!!!) out before our team heads out to the filming of BuggleBots at UWE Bristol, UK on September 8th, 2018.  I'm not sure if tickets to the live event filming are still available, but if you are interest in some IRL robot combat, check them out at bugglebots.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on August 30, 2018, 09:45:48 PM
Looking good! I'm excited to see what building and driving is gonna like with the new botlab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 01, 2018, 11:30:49 AM
Looking good! I'm excited to see what building and driving is gonna like with the new botlab.

It’s pretty rudimentary at the moment.  I haven’t had a chance to take a physics pass to make everything consistent.  Honestly, I think it is going to take a significant amount of time to make sure that all of the new components play well with each other, as well as with the pregenerated robots.  In the meanwhile, we will be adding more and more through alpha and beta, so what you see in the Alpha build is probably not going to feel like a final version.

As for right now, I’m just excited to get things working, and to finally have something to share with you guys.

Speaking of sharing, after this we are probably going to go into a closed beta period where you will have to join a group of Beta testers to receive the latest builds.  There is a signup form for this on www.robot-rumble.com, if you are interested.  We are looking to limit the amount of beta testers somewhat just to keep the amount of user input manageable, but we still need more people!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 03, 2018, 12:57:59 AM
Luckily for me, the latest version of unity still targets Vista. ;) Just make sure there is a x86 build. You should probably edit your open post. You have not touched it in a little less than a year.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2018, 03:10:43 AM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 03, 2018, 11:31:33 AM
Luckily for me, the latest version of unity still targets Vista. ;) Just make sure there is a x86 build. You should probably edit your open post. You have not touched it in a little less than a year.

No promises on Vista.  I don’t think we have a Vista machine to test on, so probably no luck with that.  We are still shooting for late summer 2019 release, so I’m hoping most people will have upgraded by then.

You are probably right about updating the initial post.  We are trying to get Alpha out this week.  Once it is released, I will update Post 1.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Just make sure when you build, set it to x86 and you should be fine, since the current version of unity targerts vista, I will be happy to test for you.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 03, 2018, 06:48:09 PM
Yeah, you should definitely NOT set it to x86, who still uses x86, that would just limit the game's capabilities
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 03, 2018, 08:45:40 PM
Okay, I was SUPER stoked when I discovered that not only is it possible to save and load robots to and from disk, but since they are stored entirely in a renameable text file, it is really easy to share them with others.

To all of you who love .json, here is a very basic robot design.  Please note that I didn't put in batteries, ESCs, or a master switch, so this robot won't be drivable once we start implementing those features, but at a minimum you should be able to load the design below in the Alpha build of the game.

Big kudos go out to @tashic for putting this together!

To load the robot in the Alpha build (should be released any day now), just create a new text file called "somerobotname.RR2Bot", insert the following, then put it in whatever directory your robot save files are being saved to.  Enjoy!:

{"name":"My Robot 2","shapes":[{"name":"Chassis","shape_visual_mesh":{"vertices":[{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553}],"uvVerts":[{"x":0.020408159121870996,"y":0.4285714328289032},{"x":0.02040817402303219,"y":0.020408159121870996},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.02040817402303219},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.4285714328289032},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.020408162847161294},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.020408162847161294},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.07857141643762589},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.07857143133878708},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.11938775330781937},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.11938775330781937},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.17755116522312165},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.1775510162115097},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.21836768090724946},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.21836768090724946},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.2765309512615204},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.2765309512615204},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.31734728813171389},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.31734728813171389},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.37551069259643557},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.3755105435848236},{"x":0.020408188924193383,"y":0.46938779950141909},{"x":0.020408159121870996,"y":0.8775510191917419},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.8775510191917419},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.46938779950141909}],"triangles":[0,3,2,2,1,0,4,5,6,4,6,7,8,9,10,8,10,11,12,13,14,12,14,15,16,17,18,16,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,20],"normals":[{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0}]},"collision_hulls":[{"vertices":[{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.25},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.25},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.25},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.25}],"uvVerts":[],"triangles":[0,2,3,2,1,3,4,3,1,5,1,2,5,2,0,5,4,1,6,4,0,6,0,3,6,3,4,7,5,0,7,0,4,7,4,5],"normals":[]}],"hulls_local_pos":[{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-0.02499999664723873}],"surface_area":0.4569000005722046,"com":{"x":0.0,"y":0.02850000001490116,"z":0.0},"layer_list":[{"points":[{"x":-20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":-20.0},{"x":-20.0,"y":-20.0}],"rel_layer_height":0.0},{"points":[{"x":-20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":-20.0},{"x":-20.0,"y":-20.0}],"rel_layer_height":0.05700000002980232}]}],"robot_construction":[{"comp_list":1,"comp_list_id":0,"conn_link_ind":-1,"position":{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},"rotation":{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":1,"conn_link_ind":0,"position":{"x":-0.19999998807907105,"y":0.031000956892967225,"z":-0.21124446392059327},"rotation":{"x":90.0,"y":90.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":2,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":1,"conn_link_ind":0,"position":{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.025073308497667314,"z":-0.2020883709192276},"rotation":{"x":90.0,"y":270.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":1,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":21,"conn_link_ind":1,"position":{"x":-0.21549998223781587,"y":0.031000956892967225,"z":-0.21124446392059327},"rotation":{"x":270.0,"y":90.00000762939453,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0000007152557374,"y":1.0000004768371583,"z":1.0000005960464478},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":21,"conn_link_ind":2,"position":{"x":0.21549999713897706,"y":0.025073308497667314,"z":-0.2020883709192276},"rotation":{"x":270.0,"y":270.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0000004768371583,"y":1.0000005960464478,"z":1.0000007152557374},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}}],"massScaleFactor":0.10000000149011612}
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2018, 12:42:03 PM
We have a confirmed date for the Alpha Build -- it will be out this weekend, along with our first trailer showing off the new robots and BotLab.

For those of you lucky enough to be in attendance at the live BuggleBots taping in Bristol, UK this weekend, you will get the first crack at the Alpha Build, along with the opportunity for free RR2 swag.  BuggleBots should be a good show, and the event will be available on YouTube in a few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 07, 2018, 04:01:39 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 07, 2018, 04:10:47 PM
how soon after signing up for the mailing list should i expect an email that gets me through to download the alpha :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 07, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 02:15:54 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 02:18:06 AM
how soon after signing up for the mailing list should i expect an email that gets me through to download the alpha :heart_smiley:

The Alpha Build is now publicly available on itch.io at the link above.  All Beta Builds will be closed to the public, but we are accepting applications on the website!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 03:23:50 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FlamesOfIce on September 08, 2018, 04:39:24 AM
Hey, i tried to lower the resolution but even though i changed it in the settings, nothing changed and when I quit and came back into the game, it was still on the old one. Do you know how to change it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on September 08, 2018, 06:37:00 AM
Hey, so I played the most recent version this morning and I really love what you’ve done so far. The physics feel really accurate and I love the realistic sound effects. The bot builder works really well and I had fun making a couple of designs. However I do have some thoughts for improvements based on what I’ve played:

-Unless I’m missing something, I couldn’t find a way to stop spinner robots overheating once the weapon was activated, so I always broke down after a few seconds (the smoke particle effect looks really nice btw)

-Royal Robby really needs balancing adjustments imo. I know that the axe does crazy amounts of damage, but the high ground clearance and relative slowness, make it really underpowered overall. I’d recommend making it lower to the ground and drive a little faster, whilst making the axe much less damaging. The AI also doesn’t seem to know to self-right until the immobilisation counter starts

-i feel like robots get broken too quickly, and should have either more HP or do less damage generally

-when making chassis/component shapes, an arrow would be handy to remind you which way is forwards, as I accidentally built a robot facing the wrong way XD

I understand that this is just an alpha, and it’s not meant to be perfect, but I figured you might appreciate some feedback.

(This is also way better than RA3 and it’s still only in alpha)

Great work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on September 08, 2018, 07:56:29 AM
This game just looks better and better with each successive update. The fact it has real live competitors makes it even better IMO - Earthquake and Manta? You sure kept that a surprise!

There's a few issues I noticed, though:


I'll have to try the build system at some point.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:01:54 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:03:37 AM
Hey, i tried to lower the resolution but even though i changed it in the settings, nothing changed and when I quit and came back into the game, it was still on the old one. Do you know how to change it?

Sorry about that! Settings are a work in progress.  The menus are really inconsistent right now, and we will need to do a few more UI passes as the game develops.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.

I'm using a Fujitsu Lifebook E Series. I got it (used) after my old one burned down to write repors on it. It runs win7 and I can start up the game but combat is super laggy on my end. Maybe the Laptop isn't old but crappy as hell.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WeN on September 08, 2018, 08:09:48 AM
same as thyrus.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:12:22 AM
Hey, so I played the most recent version this morning and I really love what you’ve done so far. The physics feel really accurate and I love the realistic sound effects. The bot builder works really well and I had fun making a couple of designs. However I do have some thoughts for improvements based on what I’ve played:

-Unless I’m missing something, I couldn’t find a way to stop spinner robots overheating once the weapon was activated, so I always broke down after a few seconds (the smoke particle effect looks really nice btw)

-Royal Robby really needs balancing adjustments imo. I know that the axe does crazy amounts of damage, but the high ground clearance and relative slowness, make it really underpowered overall. I’d recommend making it lower to the ground and drive a little faster, whilst making the axe much less damaging. The AI also doesn’t seem to know to self-right until the immobilisation counter starts

-i feel like robots get broken too quickly, and should have either more HP or do less damage generally

-when making chassis/component shapes, an arrow would be handy to remind you which way is forwards, as I accidentally built a robot facing the wrong way XD

I understand that this is just an alpha, and it’s not meant to be perfect, but I figured you might appreciate some feedback.

(This is also way better than RA3 and it’s still only in alpha)

Great work!

Excellent feedback! 

In real life, robot fights typically last just as long as the first incapacitating hit, which can be just a few seconds.  I don’t think instant kills make for a good video game, however.  Thank you for saying something about this.  We will be focusing on game experience issues a lot over the next few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:14:50 AM
This game just looks better and better with each successive update. The fact it has real live competitors makes it even better IMO - Earthquake and Manta? You sure kept that a surprise!

There's a few issues I noticed, though:

  • Every now and then, both robots will suddenly just disappear from the arena. I dunno how it happens, but it seems like a fairly major thing.
  • If you flip Royal Robby over, he seems to forget how to move even after he self-rights. He swings his axe back and forth when the immobility counter appears, but other than that he just sits there and lets you keep flipping him or shoving him into hazards. I've actually seen him kill himself from the recoil damage of rocking back and forth while firing.
  • The picture of the Test Arena in the Arena Select menu shows the old version, without all the new hazards. Speaking of which, when you're using camera 1, it's impossible to tell that there's a spike hazard thing directly underneath the camera's location until you drive into its strike zone and it wipes out a chunk of your health. I was very confused the first time it hit me.
  • On the robot selection screen, some of the robots (like Theseus) are facing in the opposite direction on the turntable. It's a small thing, but it's still worth noting.

I'll have to try the build system at some point.

Good stuff here.  It is all going in the list of things to fix.

The build system is still missing a lot, but hopefully it feels familiar enough, and new players can figure it out without too much trouble.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 08:30:47 AM
Some minor feedback from what I can tell:

I tried out the botbuilder by building a flipper.
I'm glad there were tips on how to use some of the stuff. if the botlab keeps the way it is atm they should stay in as they are really helpfull.
I couldn't build a flipper but I guess that has to do with the parts not being available in the lab as of now.
I don't know what the controlls for my bot are. I know that the spacebar spun up the weapon but that's it.
I LOVE that you can shape your own components. that's something I always wanted to have in ra2.
I still have to get used to the motor size. Belted motors would be awesome to have. I couldn't line up both drivemotors on the grid for some reason tho.

and as I said before: Combat is really laggy for me but that's my laptops fault
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:33:32 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.

I'm using a Fujitsu Lifebook E Series. I got it (used) after my old one burned down to write repors on it. It runs win7 and I can start up the game but combat is super laggy on my end. Maybe the Laptop isn't old but crappy as hell.

Hmmm... I just looked up the CPUmark for the e544, and it doesn’t look that dissimilar to my MacBook Air.  I wonder if we can tweak some things to make it run a bit better.  No promises, but we will take a look.  A lot of people use laptops (I’m one), and I would rather reach a broad audience (heck, this is a STEM game!), than require bleeding edge hardware.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 10:42:42 AM
Some minor feedback from what I can tell:

I tried out the botbuilder by building a flipper.
I'm glad there were tips on how to use some of the stuff. if the botlab keeps the way it is atm they should stay in as they are really helpfull.
I couldn't build a flipper but I guess that has to do with the parts not being available in the lab as of now.
I don't know what the controlls for my bot are. I know that the spacebar spun up the weapon but that's it.
I LOVE that you can shape your own components. that's something I always wanted to have in ra2.
I still have to get used to the motor size. Belted motors would be awesome to have. I couldn't line up both drivemotors on the grid for some reason tho.

and as I said before: Combat is really laggy for me but that's my laptops fault

Motor size is accidentally double what it should be.  It was a scaling factor problem.  The barrel of the ampflow motors are supposed to be 3” in diameter, but in the game they are six inches.  This makes wheels smaller than 8” unusable.  It will be an easy fix, but we didn’t have time to fix it before the alpha.

We still have some thinking to do about the flippers.  The pregenerated flippers use a self-collision system that is proving to be unstable, so we might have to significantly change the way they are built in the botlab.

Controls will eventually be configurable, but right now it is space bar to turn a spinner on, then space bar again to turn it off.

Glad you like the custom part builder.  That is @tashic’s baby. He’s a genius. 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 08, 2018, 12:02:15 PM
I'm really happy this is still a work in progress. I'm used to seeing projects announced on this forum die after a year.

If I'm honest, the gameplay itself hasn't seemed to have improved that much, with my major grips being that the wedge war is still won by sitting still and, once you lose advantage against a flipper, the AI is juggling you nonstop, with very little room for recovery. Then again, I imagine gameplay details like this aren't as important to iron out at this stage in development, I just want to make sure that they're definitely going to get ironed out, at some point.

It may be too early to forecast, but are you intending on updating the game indefinitely after the intended release in 2019? I'd hate for so much effort to go to waste on a game that doesn't get polished to perfection.

Good luck with the rest of development!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 01:43:12 PM
I'm really happy this is still a work in progress. I'm used to seeing projects announced on this forum die after a year.

If I'm honest, the gameplay itself hasn't seemed to have improved that much, with my major grips being that the wedge war is still won by sitting still and, once you lose advantage against a flipper, the AI is juggling you nonstop, with very little room for recovery. Then again, I imagine gameplay details like this aren't as important to iron out at this stage in development, I just want to make sure that they're definitely going to get ironed out, at some point.

It may be too early to forecast, but are you intending on updating the game indefinitely after the intended release in 2019? I'd hate for so much effort to go to waste on a game that doesn't get polished to perfection.

Good luck with the rest of development!

You are right on all counts.  Over the course of the next few months, we have a ton of development to do, and there is a very good chance that what you see now will change significantly as we start to build out the game.  One of things we are currently working on is matching up botlab robots to pregenerated ones.  We need to make sure they are balanced and/or everything can be recreated in the BotLab before we worry too much about tweaking the house robots.

AI is going to get a complete rewrite.  It isn’t reconfigurable yet, and I consider that a core part of the BotLab.  Players need to be able to customize the AI for their robots.

Lastly, yes, since we don’t have to worry about investors or publishers and we are all doing this on the side, we should be able to support the game after launch.  That’s all pretty standard stuff for me, and I think the rest of the team feels the same way.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 08, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
gave it a download, really impressed with how far this has come so far.

some feedback:
-reduce/remove the damage robots take when they are in contact with each other. i can understand doing damage on big rams, but d.b. spent nearly 3/4ths of a fight pushing me around and nearly got me into the pit before inexplicably losing because of contact damage.

-give robots more hp in general. fights are decided way too quickly by relatively small hits.

-most of the wedges seemed to have trouble getting all the way underneath their opponents to flip them, earthquake especially

-most of the spinners seem underpowered except for bubblegum. not a lot of throwing power from either vertical

haven't taken a look at the bot lab yet but i will soon. thanks for the frequent and impressive updates!

edit: when bubblegum gets flipped and its shell hits the floor it will typically glitch out, either floating in place or causing either itself or both robots to explode:
(https://i.imgur.com/f7MJURW.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on September 08, 2018, 09:28:42 PM
The latest version improves a lot, so glad to see it getting so far.
And some feedback within:

1.The axe does quite amount of damage, but needs a crashing sound, when they hit their opponents, it sounds weak and not that destructive.
2.The vertical spinner, including drums, don't have enough throwing power, In reality when they hit at the right place, their opppnents would be flipped as high as hell.
3.When bubblegum gets flipped over, it does lots of damage to itself but not the self-righting bar. It just straight up to death with the bar still functioning.
4.Two vertical spinners are throwing sparks everywhere and losing hp from the beginning. Even in the robot selecting interface, they are still throwing sparks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 08, 2018, 10:15:09 PM
Feedback/personal opinions on the alpha:

1) PLEASE GIVE US A MUSIC VOLUME SLIDER! Your menu music is loud by default and not exactly subtle. People who aren't into this genre of music will absolutely hate it, and even people who like it may no want it blasting full volume every time they open the game
2) The game crashed for me the first time I opened it, second time was fine but it took an absolute age to load to versus bot selection screen. In previous builds this was nearly instant for me. Are you loading all the bot models before hopping into this screen? The load time was long enough that I thought the game had crashed again
3) I have multiple copies of resolutions in the settings menus (pic attached at bottom of the post). I assume each of these corresponds to a different refresh rate (since I'm using a 144hz monitor). A separate refresh rate option would be perfect, but failing that even just displaying the refresh rate with the resolution would clear the confusion up. Also it would be nice to get an 'apply' button in the settings screen. I couldn't find a way to apply my changed resolution, so I was stuck at 1080p
4) On the versus screen, it would be nice to have P2 default to CPU (IMO). Consider how often the player will be playing local co-op vs how often they will be playing vs the CPU.
5) The bots die way too quickly with no visual damage. I would be fine with them dying quickly, but there needs to be some audiovisual feedback of them getting obliterated in a few hits if that's the route you're going down. I appreciate that this is difficult to achieve, but it's really one of the main draws of robot combat.

I didn't play it enough to give much feedback on specific bots. Hopefully the above is some value to you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 08, 2018, 11:15:07 PM
it's not on the poll and it might be too late to add it-- maybe you can put it as a separate checkbox to see what people's reactions are-- but i would personally like to be able to play online with other players regardless of any effective ui or a perfect framerate or what-not. i dont care if i have to type in a host's ip address like back in the days of RA1 if it means i can play against friends in real time online. even if it lags a little. or even if 'real-time' battling isnt possible, i'd at least like to maybe be able to watch our bots fight in real-time, maybe controlled by ai we write ourselves to give me a sense of having an effect on the outcome of my match. :popcorn

anything along these lines even remotely possible? i dont care if it's not a part of the original release, even as a future add-on i'd be more than overjoyed. i could imagine something like this pushing back a potential release date sp again, if it's something that has to sit on the back burner for a later patch and release i'm more than happy with that.

i think i'm the only person on this forum who still wishes for a rean mano-y-mano online tournament of any type. so let me know if this is a even remotely feasible request. thank you!! :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 08, 2018, 11:47:14 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
it's not my computer so i can't do much of anything without permission to do so and i'd hate to screw up the man's computer trying to upgrade it to another operating system. he's big on the whole 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, and the fact that certain things i want to do might not work isn't going to be the thing that changes his mind.

now starting the alpha version up, i got tjis error message. i imagine this is a byproduct of having an old computer and or operating system but if this is something resolvable i would ****ing kill to know how to fix it and get this running. im clicking the right thing to open it, right?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 09, 2018, 12:26:00 AM
another thing i noticed is that the background music fades out whenever a sound effect plays, which is really annoying once you pick up on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 09, 2018, 01:13:29 AM
What are your plans on the damage side of things? As I couldn't test it I can only assume from the trailer that causing damage is possible again  (like taking wheels off). You won't bring in soft body stuff tho I guess?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:17:32 PM
it's not on the poll and it might be too late to add it-- maybe you can put it as a separate checkbox to see what people's reactions are-- but i would personally like to be able to play online with other players regardless of any effective ui or a perfect framerate or what-not. i dont care if i have to type in a host's ip address like back in the days of RA1 if it means i can play against friends in real time online. even if it lags a little. or even if 'real-time' battling isnt possible, i'd at least like to maybe be able to watch our bots fight in real-time, maybe controlled by ai we write ourselves to give me a sense of having an effect on the outcome of my match. :popcorn

anything along these lines even remotely possible? i dont care if it's not a part of the original release, even as a future add-on i'd be more than overjoyed. i could imagine something like this pushing back a potential release date sp again, if it's something that has to sit on the back burner for a later patch and release i'm more than happy with that.

i think i'm the only person on this forum who still wishes for a rean mano-y-mano online tournament of any type. so let me know if this is a even remotely feasible request. thank you!! :heart_smiley:

Realtime multiplayer over the internet is not in the cards for this game, and most likely never will be.  In order to do it, we would have to go to a much simpler physics simulation, a la RA3, something we are not willing to do.  However, it should absolutely be possible to send someone an robot that you have created the AI for, and have them fight on a computer.  Basically, we are looking at a streamlined version of the AI mods that have been created for RA2, but built right into the Botlab.

I don't know if this is ever going to happen, but in principle it should be possible to make an AI robot on your phone, send it to your buddy's phone, then watch as the two AI robots duke it out.  Lots of things need to fall into place to get this to work, but wouldn't it be cool?  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:21:07 PM
What are your plans on the damage side of things? As I couldn't test it I can only assume from the trailer that causing damage is possible again  (like taking wheels off). You won't bring in soft body stuff tho I guess?

Damage is a big work in progress.  We have the ability to break joints already. 

We also are playing around with impact deformation, but since the models are all low poly with high-resolution textures, it doesn't look that great.  Especially when a panel gets dented inward, causing a component on the inside to clip through the outer panel.  It looks weird, and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

I am also interested in pursuing damage decals (scratches, dents, etc that are "painted" on).  This is something that we haven't figured out yet.  I feel like Unity should have a good built-in system for this, but I haven't found it yet.  Maybe in Unity 2018.3, which should be out in the next few weeks...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:24:03 PM
another thing i noticed is that the background music fades out whenever a sound effect plays, which is really annoying once you pick up on it.

 :smile: Its interesting that you would point that out.  The music ducking is intentional, and most games do it, but the fact that you noticed it means that I screwed it up and made it too obvious.

Fortunately, we now have a professional sound designer on the team who can blame me for my rookie mistakes.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:25:00 PM
To everyone who commented -- thank you thank you thank you!

We are working hard to collect all the comments and come up with a plan of attack for the next few months.  Keep the comments coming!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 09, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
Dude this is great!
Out of curiosity, how many robots will be able to be in one match? I think everyone wanted RA2 to include more than 4 robots in one match :D
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
Dude this is great!
Out of curiosity, how many robots will be able to be in one match? I think everyone wanted RA2 to include more than 4 robots in one match :D

Not sure yet.  It depends on how many CPU clock cycles we can get down to, and what kind of hardware people have.  Unfortunately, Moore’s Law is no longer helping out with the latter.  CPUs aren’t getting much faster, so we will need to be careful adding more robots.  Several people are already noticing unplayably low frame rates.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 09, 2018, 04:19:29 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 09, 2018, 06:13:32 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 09, 2018, 09:58:15 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Someone hosts their own PC and gives other people permission to control their PC (or just certain keys.)

I was one of the first to try it for RA2 ;)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/personal-tournaments/robot-wars-online-tournement/msg740486/#msg740486
https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/centauri-online-tournament-sbv/

Although it's the best option to do pseudo-online multiplayer/netplay in certain games that don't allow for netplay or online multiplayer (like RA2), it's incredibly far from ideal. Tails just mentioned it because he's a bit special
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 10, 2018, 10:01:04 AM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Someone hosts their own PC and gives other people permission to control their PC (or just certain keys.)

I was one of the first to try it for RA2 ;)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/personal-tournaments/robot-wars-online-tournement/msg740486/#msg740486
https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/centauri-online-tournament-sbv/

Although it's the best option to do pseudo-online multiplayer/netplay in certain games that don't allow for netplay or online multiplayer (like RA2), it's incredibly far from ideal. Tails just mentioned it because he's a bit special

Thanks for the links.  This actually looks super-appealing.  With the way we are using physics right now, there is no way we could do Rocket League-like online multiplayer.  I believe Rocket League game runs its physics simulation at 120 ticks per second, spending less than 1 ms per 60 Hz frame on physics.  RR2 is more like "Kerbal Space Program" -- intensely single-threaded CPU-heavy.  We are running our physics simulation at 400 ticks per second, spending 10 ms per 60 Hz frame on physics.  We don't have any room right now to do things like prediction to account for packet latency, which is what people expect in order to have a good online multiplayer experience.

The bottom line is that the only way to do online multiplayer with Robot Rumble 2 as the game currently exists is via streaming using a system like Parsec.  We need to nail down gameplay first, but fingers crossed for us to get things to the point where the streaming experience is enjoyable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: laserpanda on September 12, 2018, 09:22:16 PM
Just tried it out. Pretty fun, though there's not much visual indication of damage. It took me a while to figure out if I'd won my first match because I killed them or because time ran out.

Is deformation planned?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on September 12, 2018, 10:45:59 PM
This build looks to be a really big step forward for the game. I've been playtesting recently and have found some bugs that might need some attention.
1:Attracted to pit
This bug occurs with all bots I've tested with where the AI decides to chase a spot on the pit rather than the player
2:Disappearing Screws
TR3 is the only bot I've seen do this but it does it consistently if put in this position.
3:Stuck in Ground:
This bug only seems to affect Bubblegum due to the size of its weapon. It will also do this occasionally on solid ground if it lands right.
4:Crazy Chain
If D.B MK II rotates too violently or something gets in between the chain it responds by totally freaking out.
5:Spawn Bug
This is a very specific bug that only occurs with D.B MK II and TR3 and only occurs in this arena.
Also, I haven't gone too far into depth with the botlab but the first two designs I created seemed to have the wheels clip through the floor, thus making it undriveable despite the wheels spinning.
Hopefully this information and videos below were helpful and I can't wait to see what comes in the next update  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2018, 08:44:31 AM
Just tried it out. Pretty fun, though there's not much visual indication of damage. It took me a while to figure out if I'd won my first match because I killed them or because time ran out.

Is deformation planned?

Damage and its visual indication are going to be a big part of the next six months of development.  We have played around with mesh deformation, but are not currently satisfied with it.  Right now the effect is extremely low-poly, which would probably look good on a low-poly-styled game, but looks really bad when we are going for photorealism.

My guess is that we will have more success going with damage textures, rather than mesh deformation.  If you are interested, be sure to join the closed beta to see things progress.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2018, 09:16:00 AM
This build looks to be a really big step forward for the game. I've been playtesting recently and have found some bugs that might need some attention.
1:Attracted to pit
This bug occurs with all bots I've tested with where the AI decides to chase a spot on the pit rather than the player
2:Disappearing Screws
TR3 is the only bot I've seen do this but it does it consistently if put in this position.
3:Stuck in Ground:
This bug only seems to affect Bubblegum due to the size of its weapon. It will also do this occasionally on solid ground if it lands right.
4:Crazy Chain
If D.B MK II rotates too violently or something gets in between the chain it responds by totally freaking out.
5:Spawn Bug
This is a very specific bug that only occurs with D.B MK II and TR3 and only occurs in this arena.
Also, I haven't gone too far into depth with the botlab but the first two designs I created seemed to have the wheels clip through the floor, thus making it undriveable despite the wheels spinning.
Hopefully this information and videos below were helpful and I can't wait to see what comes in the next update  :mrgreen:

Wow!  Thanks for the details.  The videos are a big help.

I'm hoping that once we take a close look at physics for BotLab robots, we can start sorting these issues out for the pregenerated "house" robots.  Ideally, if we can get the BotLab to the point where all of the house robots are built in the BotLab, we can completely ignore all of these bugs that existed in the Alpha release.  Of course, if we do get there, we are going to have plenty of new bugs. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 16, 2018, 08:12:47 PM
BLA BLA I QUOTED THE WRONG POST

MENTIONS AI COMBAT BASED MULTIPLAYER AND WHAT NOT.
hey! thats... totally reasonable.

no luck on the error i got though, eh? just gotta get a new one for this thing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 16, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
it's not my computer so i can't do much of anything without permission to do so and i'd hate to screw up the man's computer trying to upgrade it to another operating system. he's big on the whole 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, and the fact that certain things i want to do might not work isn't going to be the thing that changes his mind.

now starting the alpha version up, i got tjis error message. i imagine this is a byproduct of having an old computer and or operating system but if this is something resolvable i would ****ing kill to know how to fix it and get this running. im clicking the right thing to open it, right?

Sorry about that error!  I don't have an XP machine to test it on, so I'm afraid that I am no help there.

I wonder, maybe it is possible to do one of the virtual gaming rigs to get access to Windows 10 and a newer graphics card?  I know it is not ideal for many people, but I was thinking of doing it myself.  I have a nice monitor, but no ability to install a graphics card on my laptop.  Next year, maybe...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 19, 2018, 05:43:38 PM
I downloaded the alpha on my main rig. When I tryed to start a loacal match or click on the left button at all, It just crashed the game. The bot lab is nice, although it is kind of hard to build, And the last button did not seem to work.
OS:Windows Server 2019 Windows Insider Build 17744
RAM: 8GB
CPU: AMD 3800

Also i would appriciate a 32 bit build of this as well. (I can also test on XP if you make a 32 bit)

You should consider also porting this to IOS and Android, it would be the best game in this genre for Mobile.

I signed up to be a beta tester as well. Great game! 
Best Regards, Asbestosstar
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 19, 2018, 07:43:38 PM
I downloaded the alpha on my main rig. When I tryed to start a loacal match or click on the left button at all, It just crashed the game. The bot lab is nice, although it is kind of hard to build, And the last button did not seem to work.
OS:Windows Server 2019 Windows Insider Build 17744
RAM: 8GB
CPU: AMD 3800

Also i would appriciate a 32 bit build of this as well. (I can also test on XP if you make a 32 bit)

You should consider also porting this to IOS and Android, it would be the best game in this genre for Mobile.

I signed up to be a beta tester as well. Great game! 
Best Regards, Asbestosstar

Oof.  Sorry to hear that.  We just took out the Impact Deformable script, which should help.  I don’t know about the Athlon 3800 though.  It was introduced in 2006, and I don’t think we are going to be able to get to a place performance-wise where it will be worth attempting to run the game on it.  We are pushing the CPU pretty hard on 2013-era machines.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 19, 2018, 07:47:58 PM
For a point of reference, the Alpha version of the game runs on a 2013 Macbook Air with an integrated GPU and a CPUmark score of 2700.  Not perfectly, but it is playable.  I can’t make any promises for the future though.  We still have a lot of physics left to figure out, and right now that is the limiting factor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 19, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
honestly just ignore asbestos. hes fixated on archaic outdated computers for whatever reason and probably isnt worth your time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 19, 2018, 11:17:26 PM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 20, 2018, 05:20:38 AM
He's also running a beta version of windows server for some reason. Ignore him.

@Asbes
You can't expect to run games made in 2018 on hardware or software that is well over a decade old.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on September 20, 2018, 05:26:16 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
then you do it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WeN on September 20, 2018, 05:28:59 AM
Ignore Asbestos.

@Asbes
You can't run a game made in 2018 on the old hardware/software. Get yourself some new hardware.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 20, 2018, 07:27:10 AM
Tfw i have a better pc then asbest
Yet to test the alpha
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 20, 2018, 10:54:27 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.

By any chance would you be willing to run CPUmark on your machine so we can get numbers to work with?  It is helpful to be able to correlate game performance to benchmark performance.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 20, 2018, 11:33:18 AM
He either has a single core Athlon 64 3800+
PassMark score is 588
Or dual core Athlon 64 3800x2
PassMark score is 1001
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:10:28 PM
can anyone think of enough ideas for threads about this game yet that it needs a whole new subforum? i think yall might be jumping the gun a little bit. this thread alone has been containing things well enough so far, i think.

dont forget how cluttered this place used to be.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:14:42 PM
hell, this thread is direct linked in the announcements up top-- it's already easily accessible from the front page of the forum. not trying being a hater but i think i make a valid point here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 090901 on September 20, 2018, 10:26:58 PM
It was given it's own subforum as before the announcement it was buried at the bottom of the forum in the last subsection of the last subforum. We felt that it has shown enough progress and promise (Let's be honest, it's pretty much better than RA3 already and that was given a whole forum section when it came out) to at least be featured more prominently on the forum. This also then allows us to use the announcement feature for other messages.

As for the whole "clutter" thing, I don''t see how adding one subforum is cluttering the forum up compared to back when we had like 5+ sections with only one active topic each. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
i agree with all of that except for now we've added a subforum with one active topic by removing the only active topic in another subforum

knaw mean?

i figured all twentysomething of us knew where to find it just fine. but hey, whatevs  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 20, 2018, 11:20:32 PM
I never thought I'd say this but I agree with toAst.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 21, 2018, 04:19:14 AM
Can we talk about the game pls k thx
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 21, 2018, 05:32:17 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
So you've returned, still dumb as ever though :P
Please get new hardware to play new games dude
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on September 21, 2018, 07:42:07 AM
Back on topic please, folks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 21, 2018, 08:10:25 AM
I really appreciate the promotion, and acknowledge the community's efforts to make RA2 what it is today.  We are working hard to make RR2 a worthy successor, and appreciate the time and interest you guys have invested in it so far.

That being said, the next six months are going to be really challenging for us.  We are officially starting the "production" phase, which means that we are going to be delving into a bunch of nitty gritty stuff with not a lot to show to the Beta testers for several months.  If all goes well, this "quiet" period should be done by the time winter is over, and we should be emerging with something solid for the beta testers to start testing in the spring.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 21, 2018, 02:25:00 PM
This is awesome!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Bighamburgers on September 21, 2018, 11:46:28 PM
will we have the power to share robots also nice game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 22, 2018, 07:31:22 AM
will we have the power to share robots also nice game

Yes.  Sharing is pretty rudimentary right now, but it works.  Your robot design is saved to a .RR2bot file that you can rename however you want.  You can then send it to someone else to open in the game.

This actually works right now in the Alpha release.

Just be aware that the file format might change a bit as we build out the Botlab, adding components and capabilities.  One of my goals is to get the AI into the .RR2Bot file, but I haven't started on this yet.  The vision is for the AI to be built right into the BotLab itself, but right now the .RR2bot file format doesn't support this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 22, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
BFE 2,0 confirmed bois!
Tried the build, and im speechless. Where do i preorder the game XD
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 22, 2018, 01:19:37 PM
BFE 2,0 confirmed bois!
Tried the build, and im speechless. Where do i preorder the game XD

Awesome!  I’m thrilled that you like it so far!

No pre-orders yet, I’m afraid.  Next closed beta build won’t be available for a few months at least.  We have significant work to do between now and then.   Just be sure to sign up for the beta on www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Bighamburgers on September 23, 2018, 11:10:52 PM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 24, 2018, 05:44:55 AM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on October 04, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
can't we make the chassis using different shapes in this version?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on October 04, 2018, 12:30:14 PM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Would it be possible to transfer models from the earlier releases when the finished game is made?

I know that's not possible to do for people who haven't downloaded the demo but for those who have...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 06, 2018, 07:45:39 AM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Would it be possible to transfer models from the earlier releases when the finished game is made?

I know that's not possible to do for people who haven't downloaded the demo but for those who have...

Unfortunately, no.  We have an obligation to respect the intellectual property rights of the IP holders for Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption.  We can’t include them in our game without permission.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 13, 2018, 03:24:17 PM
can't we make the chassis using different shapes in this version?

Definitely!  We have some designs on Twitter that people have built with the Alpha version of the game that include multiple shapes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 20, 2018, 12:34:55 PM
this looks awesome!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on November 21, 2018, 06:13:58 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 21, 2018, 06:48:01 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 07:15:17 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on November 21, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
what do you save images as in order to use them on bots in Robot Rumble?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
what do you save images as in order to use them on bots in Robot Rumble?

Assuming I can get it working, iimported textures will be .png files with transparency.  I’m not sure about the resolution yet, but I am eyeing 2048x2048.  Right now I am working on just albedo (diffuse color + transparency), but I hope to eventually get the rest of the maps (normal, metal/roughness, ambient occlusion, height) working as well. 

Assuming we can go all the way with importing .obj files along with a complete set of textures, this means you should be able to put screws, bolts, cutouts, scratches, dirt, and pretty much anything else into a model in Blender/Substance Painter, then import all of the parts and assemble them in the BotLab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on November 21, 2018, 11:08:33 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
If you put out some documentation on how RR2's bot files are structured, I'm sure someone here could cook up a converter on their own at some point, if there was any demand for such a thing. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 11:14:25 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
If you put out some documentation on how RR2's bot files are structured, I'm sure someone here could cook up a converter on their own at some point, if there was any demand for such a thing. Just a thought.

I like that idea.  We don't have everything figured out yet -- we will need to figure out how textures are going to fit into the file.  Probably as Base64 encoded PNG files into the JSON, but we don't know where yet.

I think we are going to keep everything wrapped up as a single JSON file, rather than an entire zipped folder full of text and image files.  It should make it nicer for sharing.
Title: Robot Rumble 2.0 progress update...
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 07:29:41 PM
I tried Robot Rumble 2.0, and I got some results...

It glitched my computer to death. Even with simple bots. :(:(:(:(:(

I don't know about you, but this game's a hazard...to my computer at least. I'll try it on a different one, but until then, utter disappointment.

This should really be under Sight News and Feedback, but an error occurred. Sorry.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 07:48:06 PM
If this is a bump- sorry.

I tried Robot Rumble 2.0. It literally killed my computer with glitches. Can that be fixed, please?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 11, 2018, 12:44:41 AM
They can't really fix the glitches if you don't tell them what the glitches are. What did you do that caused it to glitch, and what was the glitch?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 11, 2018, 01:24:53 AM
I tried Robot Rumble 2.0, and I got some results...

It glitched my computer to death. Even with simple bots. :(:(:(:(:(

I don't know about you, but this game's a hazard...to my computer at least. I'll try it on a different one, but until then, utter disappointment.

This should really be under Sight News and Feedback, but an error occurred. Sorry.
Dont have a sh** computer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 05:30:46 AM
If this is a bump- sorry.

I tried Robot Rumble 2.0. It literally killed my computer with glitches. Can that be fixed, please?

Sorry to hear that!

What kind of a computer are using to run the game?

Where are the glitches occurring?  Is this just in battle, or did the glitches occur when the game was first loaded?

We are trying to target Windows and Mac laptops as well as desktops, and if it doesn't run at all we definitely need to take a look at it to see what we can do.  Right now my lower limit is an early 2014 MacBook Air at 1366 x 768 resolution with a dual-core i5 and integrated GPU.  On this machine on its highest resolution, combat runs at 35 fps.  The game chugs on a 2016 15" MacBook Pro at 2880 x 1800, but when I drop the resolution down to half, it holds a steady 60 fps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
In battles and builds. It hardly even works on my computer, but maybe my computer is just plain awful.
I can't even put together a single bot!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:47:24 AM
I tried to send the link to this forum. What happened? it had a VIRUS I had to remove!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 11, 2018, 08:54:59 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:59:49 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2018, 09:25:41 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
This has to be bait haha, whose multi is this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 09:28:44 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
This has to be bait haha, whose multi is this

Nope. No bait.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 11, 2018, 09:32:53 AM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 09:54:45 AM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.

Game glitches like there's too much movement. Other than that, graphics are GREAT!

AntiVirus reported that it found a virus before the second time I played it. I put it to work removing it, and it was removed from my game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 12:57:15 PM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.

Game glitches like there's too much movement. Other than that, graphics are GREAT!

AntiVirus reported that it found a virus before the second time I played it. I put it to work removing it, and it was removed from my game.

The glitchiness sounds like a low frame rate.  Have you tried going into settings during combat and reducing the screen resolution?  If this does the trick, then your GPU is limited by its fill rate.  This is pretty common on laptops.  If it doesn't affect the frame rate at all, then it might be a CPU speed problem.

In either case, would you mind letting us know what computer you are using to run the game?  It is helpful for benchmarking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 03:36:57 PM
Screen resolution is in settings, right?

Anyway, the computer I'm trying RR on is a small Google laptop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 04:45:26 PM
Screen resolution is in settings, right?

Anyway, the computer I'm trying RR on is a small Google laptop.

That's correct.

Interesting -- I wasn't aware that Google made laptops capable of running Windows or MacOS.  Can you find the specs on the machine, or the make and model number so we can look them up?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 11, 2018, 05:43:26 PM
Only google laptops i know that exist are Chromebooks and Pixelbook.
They have Google OS and it isnt compatible with any windows program
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:11:45 PM
Only google laptops i know that exist are Chromebooks and Pixelbook.
They have Google OS and it isnt compatible with any windows program

Thank you.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
New BotLab trailer is up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg)

New Steam page is up!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/)

Merry Christmas. :)

Texture painting is now working, and we have a few more things to do with the robot workshop before we shift focus to asset production.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2018, 10:54:11 AM
New BotLab trailer is up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg)

New Steam page is up!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/)

Merry Christmas. :)

Texture painting is now working, and we have a few more things to do with the robot workshop before we shift focus to asset production.
The progress in the vid shown is huge next to first release of the game, keep up the work!
Seen the trailer, signed up for beta!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on December 23, 2018, 11:04:19 AM
impressed with the progress. can't wait.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhatAmI on December 23, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
Noice. I'll love to see what people can make with the BotLab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 06:55:36 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on December 31, 2018, 07:00:24 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
I think it should be like how DSL-IRL RA2 tourneys are run. With the clipping allowed, but as long as it can be done in real life and extenders/plates that intersect can be cut IRL to give slot, allow things that otherwise won't be possible due to game limitation but possible in real life, and of course, no intersecting motors or batteries with another of those
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 07:10:04 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
I think it should be like how DSL-IRL RA2 tourneys are run. With the clipping allowed, but as long as it can be done in real life and extenders/plates that intersect can be cut IRL to give slot, allow things that otherwise won't be possible due to game limitation but possible in real life, and of course, no intersecting motors or batteries with another of those

Would this work?:
1. Anything built using the shape builder, including both the shape designated to be the "chassis", as well as any additional shapes that are added, can be positioned anywhere and can clip anything.
2. Anything that is in the BotLab already as its own separate component (motors, batteries, electronics, wheels) will be prevented from clipping.(****We haven't implemented this yet.)
3. Any object can be attached to any surface of any other object.  If you attach anything to the axle of a motor, it will spin.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on December 31, 2018, 07:35:03 AM
I think given the choice of one over the other, the game should definitely enforce a no-clipping rule, no doubt. It adds challenge to the game and is logical, first time/new players would probably get confused if the game let you put stuff anywhere at all, not to mention that it would make the game seem unpolished to the new player, I think. However it would be nice to have a noclip mode where we can place components wherever, maybe hidden being a cheat(bot2)/konami code or something. To ensure that people can't cheat with tournament entries or whatever, I think that enabling such a mode for a bot would have to add some sort of flag to the bot file to allow the user to see if the bot has been built 'legit' or not.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on December 31, 2018, 11:08:49 AM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhatAmI on December 31, 2018, 12:35:35 PM
There should be no clipping in RR2 because it is (an attempt of) a realism game. Clipping would clip (help me) the game out of the boundaries of realism.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on January 01, 2019, 01:18:27 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2019, 03:00:27 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.

Sorry for the confusion!  Rather than "CAD->RR2 workflow", I should have said "3D surface modeling (Blender, Max, Maya, etc)->RR2 workflow".  At some point the CAD output needs to be converted into a bunch of low poly triangles for use in the game, and rather than reinventing the wheel, I would rather leverage software created by a professional. 

When I'm modeling parts for the game, I convert mechanical drawings to images, insert them as reference images in blender, then create a low-poly version using the 2D reference images.  I have tried bringing in parts created in TinkerCad and Fusion 360, but the geometries created by those programs are unsatisfactory for use in the game.  I'm hoping to get to the point where users can create stuff in Blender, pull it into a Unity project, export it as an asset bundle, then import it into RR2 for use in the robot workshop.  I haven't tried it yet, but this should work in principle.

Regarding using RR2 to test out new spinner shapes, be wary of the limitations of the physics engine.  A 6000 RPM spinner revolves at 100 revolutions per second.  Right now RR2's physics simulation is running at 400 updates per second, so the spinner would spin 90 degrees in between each update.  This creates all sorts of problems when it comes to collision detection and resolution.  As much as I would like to have a perfect spinner simulator, RR2 isn't going to be it.  Realistically speaking, I'm hoping to have something that my students can use to mock up ideas early on in their design process, to see how different robot styles might play against each other.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on January 01, 2019, 05:49:03 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.

Sorry for the confusion!  Rather than "CAD->RR2 workflow", I should have said "3D surface modeling (Blender, Max, Maya, etc)->RR2 workflow".  At some point the CAD output needs to be converted into a bunch of low poly triangles for use in the game, and rather than reinventing the wheel, I would rather leverage software created by a professional. 

When I'm modeling parts for the game, I convert mechanical drawings to images, insert them as reference images in blender, then create a low-poly version using the 2D reference images.  I have tried bringing in parts created in TinkerCad and Fusion 360, but the geometries created by those programs are unsatisfactory for use in the game.  I'm hoping to get to the point where users can create stuff in Blender, pull it into a Unity project, export it as an asset bundle, then import it into RR2 for use in the robot workshop.  I haven't tried it yet, but this should work in principle.

Regarding using RR2 to test out new spinner shapes, be wary of the limitations of the physics engine.  A 6000 RPM spinner revolves at 100 revolutions per second.  Right now RR2's physics simulation is running at 400 updates per second, so the spinner would spin 90 degrees in between each update.  This creates all sorts of problems when it comes to collision detection and resolution.  As much as I would like to have a perfect spinner simulator, RR2 isn't going to be it.  Realistically speaking, I'm hoping to have something that my students can use to mock up ideas early on in their design process, to see how different robot styles might play against each other.

Ahhhhhh I see, it makes sense that it would be far too detailed of a model. Otherwise, I don't think we're doing anymore than 2000 on the real robot, but even then it would still likely be too fast. Either way, I'm excited to play with it as it progresses.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hercules on January 20, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
This looks so professionally done, can`t wait to play this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
This looks so professionally done, can`t wait to play this

Thank you!  It is a labor of love.

I’m hoping to have more updates soon.  @tashic is hard at work doing the UX for servo motors, I’m reworking the damage system (2, and potentially 3 types of damage), @anarchy_fox is modeling new robots, and our sound engineer is working on making everything sound good.  We are all part-timers, and it is amazing that it is all coming together.  It just goes to show the strength of this community.

I’m working on the game for a good chunk of the day today, and should be able to do an update in the next 10 hours or so.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on January 21, 2019, 06:53:13 AM
This is gonna be GOOD.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 01:43:19 PM
Two new screenshots, hot off the presses:

1. The first is @tashic's work on setting servo motor limits.  The slider lets you adjust start and end limits.

As a bonus, this screenshot also includes daisy-chained motors: motor -> 12" wheel with a motor attached -> 12" wheel with a motor attached:

(http://robot-rumble.com/Chain%20of%20Motors.png)


2. The second screenshot shows the new "RR2 Component Tool".  This tool will allow users to create component designs in a separate Unity project (Unity is now a free download for Windows and Mac), export them as asset bundles, then import them into the game.  It is possible to export designs as asset bundles, but it isn't yet possible to import them into the game.  Once we get motor scripts sorted, this is next on my to-do list.  I would like to eventually make all game assets using this tool, then put the tool on GitHub as a free download.

(http://robot-rumble.com/RR2_Component_Tool.png)

Let us know what you think!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on January 21, 2019, 03:41:36 PM
Free component-modding tools? Shut up and take my money!

Could you elaborate on the "daisy-chaining", though? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dark-Al on January 21, 2019, 04:06:32 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 05:04:49 PM
Free component-modding tools? Shut up and take my money!

Could you elaborate on the "daisy-chaining", though? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.

Yup.  :smile:  Assuming we can get the import function working, you should be able to create any model you like in Blender, then bring it into the game with a full set of PBR textures.

“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 05:05:57 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.

Agreed.  Assuming we can get this working,  we are open to ideas on where to host the repository.  Maybe gametechmods?  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on January 21, 2019, 05:41:05 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.

Agreed.  Assuming we can get this working,  we are open to ideas on where to host the repository.  Maybe gametechmods?  :smile:
GTM sounds good. Steam is also good imo
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Scrap Daddy on January 21, 2019, 06:42:26 PM
This looks incredible, gentlemen. Just watched the video and want to express my support. I'm excited for this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 07:34:07 PM
This looks incredible, gentlemen. Just watched the video and want to express my support. I'm excited for this.

Thank you!  Be sure to give the Alpha a go on itch.io if you are interested.  Also, we will have a closed beta some time in the next few months.  All you have to do to get access is sign up to be a Beta tester at www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on January 21, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
ah so its like attaching two components together except without ap's so stuff can go anywhere?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 22, 2019, 05:26:10 AM
“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
ah so its like attaching two components together except without ap's so stuff can go anywhere?

Exactly.  Right now objects just snap to any surface.  If you snap an object to an axle, it will spin.  You could do spike->spike->spike->wheel->spike->wheel->shape->spike->etc...

It is possible to attach motors to axles in such a way as to make a huge daisy-chain of motors that all spin.  Of course, if you try to do too many of these, things will break pretty quickly.  Linked physics joints tend not to be stable.  Play around a little with DB Mk2's flail for physics explosion fun. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on February 04, 2019, 09:50:16 AM
Recent alpha build is out!
http://www.robot-rumble.com/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on February 05, 2019, 06:13:26 AM
Pretty sure it's the same build from 05/09/2018 as before. Excited for new updates and beta stuff soon though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
Pretty sure it's the same build from 05/09/2018 as before. Excited for new updates and beta stuff soon though!

The build available on itch.io is the Alpha build from September.  It includes the ability to create robots and fight them, but is still pretty rudimentary as far as features go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on February 06, 2019, 06:54:34 AM
That's what I thought, cool. (I'm from the UK so that date I wrote is 05 Sept and not 09 May ha)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 06, 2019, 08:50:18 PM
That's what I thought, cool. (I'm from the UK so that date I wrote is 05 Sept and not 09 May ha)

Oh man.  Sorry about that -- I totally didn't consider that possibility.  Gotta love inconsistent conventions!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 09:32:03 AM
Over the past few days I have been looking at different ways to do AI scripting in the game.  At this point, I would like to build the scripting right into the Robot Workshop, rather than requiring users to leave the game and load up a separate text editor to modify the AI script as it is done in RA2.

Due to the amount of time and effort required to implement a working solution, it looks like Python scripting is not an option.  Instead, I have narrowed AI scripting down to 2 languages: miniscript and [moddable].

miniscript looks like Python, with indent-based nesting.  Here is an example of miniscript code:

Code: [Select]
for i in range(1,100)
  if i == 42 then continue
  print("Considering " + i + "...")
end for

[moddable] looks like javascript, with curly brackets and semicolons.  Here is an example of [moddable] code:

Code: [Select]
//Loop through every movable object
for(objName : movingObjs)
{
//if moving objects should be stopped
if (!on)
{
//Stop the velocity of the physics component of the moving object
CallNativeFunc(objName,"ScrollingObject","Update");
} else
{
//Otherwise re-initiate the physics component of the moving object to start the movement again
CallNativeFunc(objName,"ScrollingObject","Start");
}
}

The idea is that every player has the option to create their own AI for their robot.  When you share your robot with someone else, the custom AI script that you wrote goes with it.  Assuming all goes well, writing custom AI code will become a core part of the game, just like positioning motors and shapes on your robot.

Given the choice between the two AI programming languages above, which language would you prefer?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2019, 09:36:38 AM
I would much prefer miniscript, it looks a lot more simple for complete noobies to understand, which I think is important for this specific use case. It also looks quite pythonic, which would make transitioning from RA2 easier in comparison to using something like [moddable].
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on February 28, 2019, 10:21:54 AM
How much freedom are we giving?

Will it be a set of defined functions which we edit the contents of?
Or will there be a lot more available?

The issue with RA2 AI is that you could modify parameters which were unrelated to movement/weaponry and make instant win AIs.

I almost feel like a drag and drop overlay might be more intuitive from a basic programming level.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
How much freedom are we giving?

Will it be a set of defined functions which we edit the contents of?
Or will there be a lot more available?

The issue with RA2 AI is that you could modify parameters which were unrelated to movement/weaponry and make instant win AIs.

I almost feel like a drag and drop overlay might be more intuitive from a basic programming level.

Right now I'm thinking that the most straightforward way to do it would be the following:

1. Expose a bunch of values to the AI. For example, all robots would have access to a pathfinding "findNearestWaypoint()" function that would come from a Unity navmesh, as well as rigidbody position, rotation, battery, heat, and other state variables. In addition, players will have the ability to add "sensors" to their robot. When an enemy enters a one of the sensor trigger zones, the AI should be notified.

2. The AI should be capable of sending input commands to the robot's motors, just like a button press on the keyboard or a controller would do.  For digital inputs, control signal values would either be 0 (off) or 1 (on).  For analog inputs, the control signal values would be clamped to a range from -1 (all the way negative) to +1 (all the way positive).

3. We would like to have complete flexibility for players to script any sort of AI they would like: behavior tree, FSM, utility, etc.  It is worth noting that a complete script must be contained in a single file.  Both [moddable] and miniscript allow you to create your own variables and functions for use within the script.


There is someone in existence who has made a drag and drop UI (block coding) for miniscript, but that person is currently working on another game and is unavailable to work on RR2.  Recreating Scratch or Blox inside of Unity is a pretty big task, but at a minimum I would like to get a basic code editor working.

What were the instant win parameters in RA2?  I would definitely want to avoid these!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
I just asked the miniscript vs [moddable] question to a bunch of high school students.  It was a 50% / 50% split between students who preferred the miniscript style vs the [moddable] style of coding.

Awesome.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2019, 11:03:14 AM
In RA2 AI code has access to both bot's chassis health values IIRC, so you could make an AI file that gave your bot infinite chassis HP or instantly set your opponent's chassis HP to zero. Pretty sure you can do the same with points, specific component HP values etc. etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on February 28, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 12:54:42 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Neither language has a robust set of external math libraries.  Here is the complete API for each:

http://luminaryapps.com/temp/MiniScript-demo/MiniScript-Manual.pdf (http://luminaryapps.com/temp/MiniScript-demo/MiniScript-Manual.pdf)

https://moddable.softrare.eu/#manpages/api.html (https://moddable.softrare.eu/#manpages/api.html)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on February 28, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
The issue with Meltybrain in RA2 is that it's ONLY possible with AI. There's no real way to do it (at least that isn't cludgy as hell) for a player-controlled bot. If you can find a way to get meltybrain to work for both player and AI driven bots, I can't see why it would be an issue
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 02:45:22 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
The issue with Meltybrain in RA2 is that it's ONLY possible with AI. There's no real way to do it (at least that isn't cludgy as hell) for a player-controlled bot. If you can find a way to get meltybrain to work for both player and AI driven bots, I can't see why it would be an issue

I hadn't really thought about that.  I suppose the problem would be that as a player you could potentially fight against a meltybrain robot, but wouldn't have a chance to make one yourself.

I have already solved a similar problem by making an electronic stability control system that works nicely by cutting power to wheels to help a player drive straight.  I was thinking of making this an option that you could select while driving.  Maybe I could make a meltybrain driving option that operates with the same basic principle?

Has anyone driven a meltybrain robot before?  Does it still use forward/back/left/right controls, or do you tell it to travel in a particular direction, then using a gyroscope or something to go in that direction?

This could get interesting.  Depending on how quickly the meltybrain is spinning, the physics system might not update quickly enough to actually control the robot.  Physics currently runs at 400 fps.  Does anyone have any experience building real-life meltybrain systems?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on March 01, 2019, 07:02:19 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 07:14:06 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on March 01, 2019, 07:19:32 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 07:31:39 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on March 01, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Take Google's Deep mind AI, and use it in this game, this specific AI can learn by itself, and it has taught itself how to walk, so I think it could teach itself to play RR2, but it's probably impossible to do
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 09:10:52 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Take Google's Deep mind AI, and use it in this game, this specific AI can learn by itself, and it has taught itself how to walk, so I think it could teach itself to play RR2, but it's probably impossible to do

That isn’t something we had planned to implement, and I don’t think miniscript has the ability to do http requests.  It might be worth asking Joe Strout, miniscript’s creator, if he plans to include something like this though.  If it is possible in miniscript, then it should be possible for any player to do it themselves.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 01, 2019, 10:19:08 AM
"Taking Google's DeepMind AI" is way beyond the scope of this.

We're talking about a simple set of logic that takes the available inputs from the game and outputs commands to the robot. This should be possible in any basic language. Miniscript seems perfectly adequate. I would have to have a play around before really commenting too much.

Maybe you could create a little demo with 2 simple robots that can drive, turn and activate some kind of weapon. Then if you expose arena/bot parameters as readable and motor/weapons as writeable we can try it out.

I'm a software engineer , although I'm usually working with C/C++, I should be able to give some useful feedback.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 10:41:03 AM
We are starting work on an in-game miniscript code editor today, and I'm hoping to have something very basic working by the first beta release. This should include a very basic script to drive toward the nearest enemy and turn on the weapon.

Once upon a time I mentioned by the end of March for the first beta, so I'm going to try to stick to that.  We'll see though.  We still have a lot to build before we are ready to release.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on March 02, 2019, 07:09:30 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but will there be basic default AI scripts for different weapon types that the player can apply straight to a robot? Just thinking for players who might find writing AI scripts to be difficult, if they’ve never done any scripting or basic programming. That said, I did look up MiniScript and it looks pretty simple to use, even compared to python.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2019, 07:27:03 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but will there be basic default AI scripts for different weapon types that the player can apply straight to a robot? Just thinking for players who might find writing AI scripts to be difficult, if they’ve never done any scripting or basic programming. That said, I did look up MiniScript and it looks pretty simple to use, even compared to python.

I showed miniscript around to quite a few people yesterday, and yours was a pretty common request.

The first thing I would like to get working is a default AI script that simply drives toward the nearest waypoint.  If there aren't any obstacles in the way, this means driving directly at the nearest opponent.  This script will be exposed and editable in the Robot Workshop.

I think the next step would be to have "code snippets", where you can copy-paste a script in to do a certain thing.  I'm hoping that most people can use the code snippets, then tweak the numbers to their liking.

No promises yet on anything more advanced than that (drag-and-drop, etc).  Lets wait until after the first beta to get some feedback on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 05, 2019, 08:17:02 AM
Things are tearing along at quite a clip right now.  We are shooting to have our first Beta out at the end of March.  Here are some of the things we are working on this week:

1. Fight your own custom-built robots in the arena vs pre-built robots in exhibition matches. (Done)
2. Give your robot a custom paint job. (Working, but with a very limited brush selection.)
3. RR2 Component Modding Tool - This is a separate Unity3D project that we will place on GitHub that will allow you to create your own robot components and import them into the game.  (Under development. Probably won't make the first Beta.)
4. Write your own robot AI in miniscript. (Under development. I am hopeful this will make the first Beta in a very rudimentary way.)
5. More motor types: servors, linear actuators. (Under development. We should have at least some of these working for the first Beta.)
6. Tournament mode. (Started, but most likely will not be ready for the first Beta.)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 07, 2019, 03:23:56 PM
AI is now moddable with miniscript!  Miniscript is completely sandboxed from the main code, which means that users shouldn't normally be able to cheat the game with miniscript unless they really try.  Bear in mind that I say this without having done any user testing whatsoever.  :smile:

Right now miniscript is accessible only by me.  In the next few weeks I will be working on exposing the scripts to you guys for the Beta release.  We have an in-game miniscript code editor in the works, so you shouldn't have to leave the game to edit your AI like you do for RA2.

All of the old AI still exists by default, but you can override values and change things in miniscript.  I have exposed all of the AI variables to be read by miniscript, and am allowing miniscript to control 5 values: vRaw, hRaw, axeDown, retractWeapon, and spinnerOn.  If one of these 5 values is not set by miniscript, it is left in its original state.  In the script I have below, this means that driving works as normal, but the weapons are never triggered.  This means that the robots only push, but never turn on their weapons.

Here is the current list of variables to be read by and set by miniscript.  We will need to add to this list when we add things like trigger zone sensors in the Robot Workshop.

Readable:
    selfPosition
    selfRotation
    nearestWaypoint // This is taken from a NavMesh.  It is used if there isn't a direct path to the target.
    nearestTargetPosition
    nearestTargetRotation
    crossProduct // This is the cross product of our current heading vector with the direction to the target.  It is used to compute the steering signal.
    controlSignal // This is the steering signal computed by the existing AI.
    dotProduct  // This is the dot product of our current heading vector with the direction to the target.  It is used to compute the forward/backward signal.
    nearestTargetImmobileTime
    isImmobile
    selfImmobileTime

Settable:
    hRaw // The raw left/right signal given to the controller.  This is equivalent to pushing the right/left arrows or "D"/"A" keys.
    vRaw // The raw up/down signal given to the controller.  This is equivalent to pushing the up/down arrows or "W"/"S" keys.
    axeDown
    retractWeapon
    spinnerOn

Here is the miniscript code I am using so that D.B. can beat up on Bubblegum.  They are both using this script, and D.B. is a better pusher, and Bubblegum's weapon is never turned on:

Code: [Select]
while 1
            hRaw = controlSignal
            vRaw = dotProduct
            spinnerOn = false
            wait(0.1)
        end while 

Edit: Added spinnerOn = false to force Bubblegum to not spin.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 08, 2019, 03:37:28 PM
Here's D.B. staring down Crabsolutely Crawful.

Neither of them are going anywhere at the moment.  Setting hRaw and vRaw to something other than zero should do the trick...

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/AICodeEditorVersion0.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on March 08, 2019, 04:42:46 PM
I know its a buttload of extra work and also that I'm a bit late to the party but I think the most ideal way to program robots would be through a graphical language. Those tend to be much more friendly towards those that aren't familiar with programming (and would also be more familiar to people who use stuff like labview).

If you were to come up with your own icons it would probably be possible to have a 1-to-1 correspondence to miniscript (so at least a transpiler could be easy). Maybe just keep this as a suggestion for when after all the more important stuff is finished.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 08, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
I know its a buttload of extra work and also that I'm a bit late to the party but I think the most ideal way to program robots would be through a graphical language. Those tend to be much more friendly towards those that aren't familiar with programming (and would also be more familiar to people who use stuff like labview).

If you were to come up with your own icons it would probably be possible to have a 1-to-1 correspondence to miniscript (so at least a transpiler could be easy). Maybe just keep this as a suggestion for when after all the more important stuff is finished.

I hear you.  It would be cool to make a block-based visual coding system.  I would like to wait to get some feedback on the Beta (don’t forget to sign up!) before we march down that path though.  I suspect that simple things like picking clear names for variables, and having a few good examples will go a long way though.

Once this little piece of the game is ready for beta, I will most likely be shifting focus over to things like robot components, and getting a tournament system in place.  I am definitely planning to come back to AI before launch though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 25, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
There is a new Alpha build coming on Thursday night!

The latest build should be available on Friday at https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds).

Here's a preview of what you can do in the new build:

(http://robot-rumble.com/ScoopyflailVsBubblegum-Alpha2-3-25-2019.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 25, 2019, 11:42:06 AM
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 25, 2019, 08:29:28 PM
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍

Thanks for the suggestion!  I added it to the Trello list.

Now that people can create their own robots, this will start to become an issue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on March 26, 2019, 07:33:09 PM
PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:

:heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/RR2-4playerbattle.png)

Alpha version 2 is out!!!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

We are planning to keep the Alpha builds free to the public, but be sure to sign up for the closed Beta over on http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on March 28, 2019, 05:18:25 PM
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2019, 05:29:59 PM
Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
After noticing some serious Boo-Boos on today's Alpha Build 2, we have just released Alpha Build 2.01.  If you just downloaded Alpha Build 2, please head back to https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds. (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds.) to get the update.

In this fix:
1. Manta, TR3, and Royal Robby's weapons are working.
2. Music works too.

Also, if you haven't already, please remember to sign up for the closed beta at www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com).

Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.

Thank you for the comprehensive feedback!

We will definitely rename the game for Beta and the official launch.  The weird names should help make it clear to players that these are Alpha releases, and shouldn't be confused with what comes later.

Sorry about Windows Defender!  I always get a similar warning on my Mac.  When we get a little closer to the finished version, we will see if we can get the game whitelisted.

I think I might have solved the problem with both robots not moving.  It is intermittent, and was hard to track down as a result.  We'll see if this latest version fixes it.

I solved the problem of flippers not firing.  It turns out it was caused by an incorrect build setting.  This has been fixed.

We will definitely need to tune the axe.  It is way too heavy, and throws Robby when it fires.

Lower ground clearance -- yes!  I just lowered its center of mass, but we will need to adjust the physics model as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 10:58:08 PM
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.

I published without noticing that the exported file was using the wrong version of Unity.  This broke the music and the flippers and axes. Oops.  :ouch:  I just pushed a corrected version.

As of right now, there isn't a good way to do flippers or axes in the BotLab.  We are working on it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 06:52:02 AM
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍

It definitely helps!

- I noticed the automatic triggering of smart zones for player-controlled robots last night too.  Yesterday I did a complete rewrite of the control system, and this was a bug that has just popped up.  Smart zones should only do something when under AI control.  As we transition over to miniscript, this problem should go away entirely for robots you build in the workshop.  Once miniscript is working correctly, Smart Zones won't trigger anything.  They will simply send an "iAmTriggered" (or something like that) statement to miniscript, and it will be up to the user to decide what to do with that information.

-We are still working on music and sounds for everything.  It is a long process. :)

-The flippers and Royal Robby are using the same default code for triggering their weapons.  I will see what I can do to fix it this morning.

-The CO2 allowance is using an accurate physical model based on the size of the the tank, the buffer tank, the internal volume of the piping, and the stroke volume of the piston.  I assumed no friction, no gas losses (unless there is a leak), no gas flow from the storage tank during the stroke, and that the CO2 behaves as an ideal gas once it is inside the buffer volume.  The piston force even drops dynamically during the stroke when the volume grows and the gas expands adiabatically. 

With all that said, I agree.  I don't like it.  Realistic does not feel good.  Its the reason I haven't built a flipper in real life with my students.  Gas-powered things are great when they work, but they stop working for a million reasons and it is hugely frustrating.

I think I prefer the less-realistic model that you described.  Besides that it would be WAY simpler to code. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 07:05:32 AM
I'm enjoying this version so far, the only problem being that the bot lab is super laggy for me, which might just be my computer.

Feedback-
Royal Robby is super glitchy, and randomly flies into space sometimes after firing the axe. Also, it seems to have way too much ground clearance, and no beta-style tail to keep it from flopping, even when dealing a not glitchy hit.
Bubblegum feels broken, since it seems like its impossible to destabilize it, and it still does RA2 damage by just grinding away and doing nothing while the opponent dies trying to kill it
Theseus' AI has absolutely no clue what to do when its flipped over and just drives around aimlessly
Sometimes robots will just sit there and do nothing after outwedging each other

Shoot!  The robot workshop shouldn't be laggy.  In which screens do you notice it the most?  Is it when the robots are loading?

We definitely need to fix Royal Robby.  I think the fundamental problem is that the momenta involved are too high for the physics engine to handle.  Good call about that tail!  Royal Robby is @anarchy_fox's original design, so adding it wouldn't be a problem at all.

Bubblegum is ridiculous.  It is fun until you realize that with the way things are right now, it is completely unstoppable.  It shouldn't be too hard to dial things way back.

Poor Theseus.  I think an AI tweak is in order, a lowered center of mass to reduce tipping, and maybe some magnets to help hold the robot to the floor.

Over the next few weeks I will try to nail down the AI issues above, as well as start the process of transitioning over to miniscript control for the AI.  Once AI is exposed via miniscript, it will be available to everyone here for modification.  I can't wait to see what people come up with and share with the community.

Maybe one more public Alpha release with user-editable miniscript AI?  Is this something that you might want to sink your teeth in the next two months?  Let me know!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SagarisRA2 on March 29, 2019, 10:38:00 AM
This is probably just my laptop being poor but christ the lag in the gameplay is strong, even though the graphics default setting is low. And yeah I tried to make a flipper only to not find a burst for flippers, but the graphics and physics are clean as hell.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on March 29, 2019, 12:18:37 PM
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 12:52:31 PM
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?

Unless we can figure out how to make the flail more stable, we will most likely remove it from the game.  It is great for testing purposes though!

We haven’t finalized temperature yet, but right now the way it works is:

1. Each damageable object keeps track of its own hp and temp.  The one that you see displayed in the bar is just the chassis. 
2. If temp rises above a certain level, components shut down.  If it rises way too high, that ovject takes damage.  Right now the only things that would cause that to happen are arena flames and lava.

Anything and everything in the botlab can cause damage to a damageable object.  You can definitely make weapons in the shape editor.  However, we haven’t done any balancing with this yet, so it is highly likely that we  will have certain components that do more damage.  My thought is that you can cut any shape you want out of mild steel in the shape builder.  However, you will need to use the yet-to-be-built RR2 Component Modding Tool to create a hardened steel spinning weapon.  The mild steel weapon will work, but the purpose built one will work better.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 02, 2019, 10:30:51 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 02, 2019, 06:28:38 PM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 08:44:31 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 10:22:12 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.

This is going to be another huge hit on GTM, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 02:35:45 PM
The miniscript code editor screen is coming together!

It is now possible to live-code AI and watch the robot update its AI behavior in realtime.

In theory you could fight an entire battle by typing code!   :bigsmile:

(https://www.robot-rumble.com/miniscript-code-editor-prototype.jpeg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
You must be some sort of guy with superpowers, ‘cause this game you’re making is mind-blowing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 09:30:31 PM
You must be some sort of guy with superpowers, ‘cause this game you’re making is mind-blowing.

Thanks for that!

I don't have superpowers.  Our team does.  @tashic is a genius, @Anarchy_Fox is amazing, and @callumbigden makes everything look incredible.  I just direct traffic every now and then.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 05, 2019, 03:09:05 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 05, 2019, 05:26:09 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 05, 2019, 05:47:22 AM
Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on April 06, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
ra2's successor is finally here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 06, 2019, 04:39:34 PM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 06, 2019, 04:44:10 PM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Apanx would undoubtedly be the first guy you should go to on that front
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 06, 2019, 05:25:17 PM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 06, 2019, 06:07:10 PM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on April 06, 2019, 07:36:40 PM
booted up the new demo, some bugs ive found

-manta's flipper and bubblegum in general are rather buggy and like to clip their parts into each other leading to physics weirdness
-bubblegum and crippling depression's weapons spin the wrong direction
-ai robots seem to have a problem navigating around the pit cover? like when they drive over it they seem to be stuck navigating in that one small square until another robot pushes them out
-spinner sound effects do not stop when a match is restarted, leading to the same sfx being overlayed multiple times
-ai flippers cannot self-right
-royal robby's axe retracts too fast for its own good imo
-floor spikes seem to do too much damage
-ive had matches where ballerina's weapon won't spin, for some reason. i think this has something to do with the aforementioned sfx bug
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:09:36 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 07, 2019, 07:13:12 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.

^what he said.^
Oh, and I use a toggle switch for spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:30:05 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:35:56 AM
booted up the new demo, some bugs ive found

-manta's flipper and bubblegum in general are rather buggy and like to clip their parts into each other leading to physics weirdness
-bubblegum and crippling depression's weapons spin the wrong direction
-ai robots seem to have a problem navigating around the pit cover? like when they drive over it they seem to be stuck navigating in that one small square until another robot pushes them out
-spinner sound effects do not stop when a match is restarted, leading to the same sfx being overlayed multiple times
-ai flippers cannot self-right
-royal robby's axe retracts too fast for its own good imo
-floor spikes seem to do too much damage
-ive had matches where ballerina's weapon won't spin, for some reason. i think this has something to do with the aforementioned sfx bug

Thanks for the feedback!  I've posted all of these on Trello.

Out of all of these, AI flipper self-righting is fixed for an internal build, and should be for the next public release.  We should be able to get to most of the rest as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 07, 2019, 07:37:36 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
I can play the game on Internet site right? Because I haven't tried it yet as I assume I have to download for it, and I don't want to download updates a lot every time a new version comes out tbh, considering the stage of the game now. If it's Internet though, I may be able to try on late April, because RL stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:38:02 AM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Apanx would undoubtedly be the first guy you should go to on that front

Thanks for the recommendation!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:49:52 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
I can play the game on Internet site right? Because I haven't tried it yet as I assume I have to download for it, and I don't want to download updates a lot every time a new version comes out tbh, considering the stage of the game now. If it's Internet though, I may be able to try on late April, because RL stuff

Unfortunately, no.  We don't have a browser version of the RR2.  I originally wanted to do this, as I do most of my work in Construct 2/3, and the original "Robot Rumble" was built for the web.  RR2 is a native-only app for Windows and Mac.

The game works now, but we are making a ton of changes to it.  The AI coding screen is coming along nicely, and I'm hoping to put out another public Alpha before the end of April.

If you want something more stable, be sure to sign up for the closed Beta (this summer??? maybe???).  We should be "feature complete" (a term I use loosely) by then.  Just don't wait too long -- the longer you wait, the less likely we will be able to fix any issues that you find.

To sign up for the closed beta, head over to our website at www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 07, 2019, 08:34:55 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Ive seen it, dw i have done it, yet to no avail
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 08:37:31 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Ive seen it, dw i have done it, yet to no avail

Drat.  I was hoping it was as simple as the above.  At what point in these instructions did the failure occur?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 08:43:06 AM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/motorassignment.png)

Here's a screenshot showing the assignment of a left motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 07, 2019, 08:47:40 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 09:34:21 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon

The first thing that comes to mind is that maybe the wheels aren’t attached to the axle correctly.  Is it possible that they are affixed to the body of the motor instead?  Maybe try mounting a motor vertically, then attaching a bar spinner to the axle, then calling the motor a drive motor?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/assigningabarspinner.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 08:38:24 AM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 08, 2019, 08:42:43 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon

The first thing that comes to mind is that maybe the wheels aren’t attached to the axle correctly.  Is it possible that they are affixed to the body of the motor instead?  Maybe try mounting a motor vertically, then attaching a bar spinner to the axle, then calling the motor a drive motor?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/assigningabarspinner.gif)
I did the same thing for my bot IronTail. Works great.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Pwnator on April 08, 2019, 10:24:59 AM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 10:58:17 AM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).

Nice catch on currently available win conditions.  I hadn't thought of that.  To be honest, we have been putting off thinking about arenas until the beta.

The whole picture doesn't exist yet.  Right now the default AI miniscript simply drives toward the nearest enemy and presses button1 when close.  All we need at the moment are the inputs to the system.  A decision making process will come once the inputs are fairly stable. 

Of course we can always add more inputs as necessary, but I was hoping to capture as many as possible as a starting point before we start writing default code.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 12:03:39 PM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).

Here's what I have so far.

Possible win conditions:
1. Last robot standing (KO)
2. Most points when time runs out
3. Out of the arena (tabletop)
4. King of the Hill (points scored per second spent in target area)

I imagine that #1 and #2 would always be active.  #3 and #4 would only be true for certain arenas.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 08, 2019, 01:24:23 PM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?
Maybe, for robots with CO2, how much they have left? So if they start running out, maybe they prioritise self-righting over mindlessly swinging at anything in the vicinity, and when they run out, they know to stop firing the weapon. Robots in RA2 will keep firing their pistons long after their CO2 has run out.

Also maybe a list of arena hazards (for avoidance and/or shoving opponents towards them)? Or does that come under "edges"?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?
Maybe, for robots with CO2, how much they have left? So if they start running out, maybe they prioritise self-righting over mindlessly swinging at anything in the vicinity, and when they run out, they know to stop firing the weapon. Robots in RA2 will keep firing their pistons long after their CO2 has run out.

Also maybe a list of arena hazards (for avoidance and/or shoving opponents towards them)? Or does that come under "edges"?

Good call about prioritizing CO2 for self-righting.  The game is pretty mindless about this right now, and flippers get themselves into trouble.

I was also thinking we might do something similar with heat and battery.  They aren't an issue right now, but heat and battery management are definitely something I have thought about including.

Getting "edges" from Unity's NavMesh system is really easy to do right now -- just a single API call.  It probably does make sense to categorize them somehow.  In the Test Arena, being shoved up against the railing is annoying, but not game ending.  However, being shoved into the pit means game over.

I'm thinking something like having a "pit" trigger volume:
1. Have the NavMesh system report the location of the nearest edge.
2. Place an invisible test sphere in that location.  If the test sphere overlaps with a "pit" trigger, then prioritize staying away from it at all costs.  If not, then don't worry about avoiding it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Pwnator on April 08, 2019, 02:29:51 PM
I think the best starting point is to determine:

1. The processes that are active throughout the whole match (immobility check, enemy tracking/mobility check, win condition evaluation, obstacle evaluation that modifies the shortest path between the bots).
2. A default engagement tactic that is active only while mobile, armed, & powered.
3. The processes that are triggered by mid-match conditions (new engagement tactic when new win condition is determined, such as keeping distance when enemy is stuck, shoving when disarmed, evading when crippled/stuck/low on power, etc.).


Then from those processes you can derive the necessary data to build your functions upon:
  - Positioning and mobility status for the processes in #1
  - Battery, air, drive, weapon, & armor statuses for the processes in #2
  - Control signals that are triggered from the processes in #2 maybe a bit from #1


My engineering background is in microelectronics so I might be over-complicating things. Someone who has a strong background in control systems, feel free to correct me.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 02:47:43 PM
I think the best starting point is to determine:

1. The processes that are active throughout the whole match (immobility check, enemy tracking/mobility check, win condition evaluation, obstacle evaluation that modifies the shortest path between the bots).
2. A default engagement tactic that is active only while mobile, armed, & powered.
3. The processes that are triggered by mid-match conditions (new engagement tactic when new win condition is determined, such as keeping distance when enemy is stuck, shoving when disarmed, evading when crippled/stuck/low on power, etc.).


Then from those processes you can derive the necessary data to build your functions upon:
  - Positioning and mobility status for the processes in #1
  - Battery, air, drive, weapon, & armor statuses for the processes in #2
  - Control signals that are triggered from the processes in #2 maybe a bit from #1


My engineering background is in microelectronics so I might be over-complicating things. Someone who has a strong background in control systems, feel free to correct me.  :smile:

Not a bad approach.  The outputs are all set now (4 analog axes + 4 digital buttons), and I'm getting close to done with the list of inputs (see above).

Once outputs and inputs are set, it will be a matter of building an AI system using the given set of inputs and outputs.  That's the hard work, but it is also something that can be done over a matter of months or years because all of the code will be written in miniscript, and under the direct control of the individual player.

I fully expect that the logic will evolve over time as players come up with new ways to tackle AI.  Maybe one player will entirely ditch the existing state machine and come up with a behavior tree or utility based system that completely dominates.

All of the AI code will live in the .RR2Bot file, so when you share your robot, you are sharing all of its AI code as well.  You will be able to copy-paste code to and from www.gametechmods.com.  I can't wait to see what people post here on the forums. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 09, 2019, 02:19:54 PM
Thank you to everyone for providing feedback on AI.  Based on your feedback, I am rewriting all of the AI inputs from scratch, this time cribbing off of the RA2 python files.  I’m going to try to make a 1:1 match so that it should be relatively easy to transfer over the existing RA2 AI to the new game.

Please note that miniscript is an entirely different language than the python used in RA2, but it should be close enough.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2019, 05:41:15 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 09, 2019, 05:53:34 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2019, 06:01:01 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
I disagree. Again, I think Parsec is just a bandaid, and not a particularly useful one looking at its lack of adoption for RA2, which would seemingly be the ideal scenario for the service. It has several issues, such as it being inherently unfair (the host has a sizeable latency advantage), being a pain in the ass both to set up the service and to set up bots and controls and relying on very solid network speeds. These issues combine to result in it barely being used in GTM as of late.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 09, 2019, 09:31:40 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
I disagree. Again, I think Parsec is just a bandaid, and not a particularly useful one looking at its lack of adoption for RA2, which would seemingly be the ideal scenario for the service. It has several issues, such as it being inherently unfair (the host has a sizeable latency advantage), being a pain in the ass both to set up the service and to set up bots and controls and relying on very solid network speeds. These issues combine to result in it barely being used in GTM as of late.

Badger, I really appreciate your honesty and your insight.  I know that players have wanted a good online multiplayer experience for a long time.  I think you have accurately summarized the years of frustration that many people have felt with RA2.  I hope that the following helps address some of these concerns:

First off, don't forget about local multiplayer!  A good, solid local multiplayer experience is one of our core requirements.  Heck, the game was originally conceived as a way for my students to prototype their designs and learn to drive robots against each other before we got to an actual arena.  Player vs player with game controllers is really fun.

I would love to create a great online multiplayer experience as well, but there are a number of technical and financial reasons why we have not pursued this:

1.  Because of the 400 Hz physics tick rate, doing non-buggy online multiplayer is extremely difficult without writing a deterministic physics engine.  I'm pretty good with physics, but this is well beyond what I am willing to attempt for the game. 
2.  RA2 and RA3 both attempted to do online multiplayer.  They had to scale back their physics tick rate quite a bit to make it work.  The result in both cases was a game that didn't have the physics fidelity that people wanted, and didn't have enough players to warrant investing heavily into making the experience better.  There are plenty of nonrealistic multiplayer robot fighting games out there already.  We wanted to build a realistic one, which meant sacrificing online multiplayer.

I am really excited about the new AI system, though I totally get it why I might be the only one -- You guys haven't seen it yet. ;)  We are bringing programming out from the modding shadows into the game itself.  Live coding a running robot is really frickin' cool:
1. You type some code.
2. The robot instantly responds.  It is that simple.

Just because you can use the old RA2 AI logic doesn't mean you have to.  That logic will be there as a starting point, but I expect that people will rewrite the AI to be more effective in battle.  Every player writes their own code, or they can modify something they found in a forum.  I fully expect that given the appropriate inputs and enough time, people will be able to write AI that will absolutely demolish a human player.  Remember that the computer runs at 60 Hz.  The fastest humans alive can sustain control signals only at about 5 Hz.

The bottom line is that I view RR2 as a member of a new genre of game.  It is building game AND a coding game.  You get to build and code your own version of The Terminator.

The community here proved the concept by modding RA2.  RR2 builds upon that and makes robot combat AI coding much more accessible.  I'm excited for it, and I hope that you guys are too. 

As for online multiplayer, let's get the game out and see how it goes this year.  It is quite possible that with Google Stadia, GeForce Now, and Blade Shadow all in the mix, we might well be revisiting this conversation again in 2020.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 11, 2019, 03:01:19 PM
Hi guys, quite enjoying myself so far, I must say.

Couple of questions about future plans.

- Belted motors, are they happening?
-Circular custom weapons?
-Wiring UI and process being more streamlined? (Which tbh Idk why I'm asking this, you already answered this).
-How soon can we expect creations vs AI fights?

Overall tho, cracking stuff, I've been messing around in the multilayered chassis creation section for hours alone!

Cheers, I'll be posting some creations in the other thread once I get stuff ready <3
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 11, 2019, 05:19:24 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SagarisRA2 on April 11, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Dayum even on this Sabare seems to outwedge an opponent with ease. Speed Demon looks nice too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on April 11, 2019, 05:56:34 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Dayum even on this Sabare seems to outwedge an opponent with ease. Speed Demon looks nice too.
My question is: Has he AId it to do the Bocuma spin?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 11, 2019, 06:37:37 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Cracking stuff my guy


Hiya, after playing for what had been a great night, I've got some feedback.

Is there a way to wire srimechs, this would be greatly appreciated haha! I've just been dragging around a floppy piece of metal for when I fight lmao, on top of this, the ability to choose our button inputs would be a great feature. A small ui tweak I'd recommend is moving the "eliminated" and "win" text to the top of the screen, it gets in the way of match and seeing the action.

I'd also suggest adding a way to rotate robots forward direction, unless this is already in, then how? :really_makes_you_think:.

An option to adjust the volume of the announcer guy, he's proper loud for my liking.

When zooming in to focus on building, it gets blurry

Been noticing some ai issues, general ai stopping, not srimeching, etc. Specifically for me; Earthquake, TR2, Ballerina & Manta.

Been really enjoying it as my recent posts tell, thanks guys

Lots of Love, Hoppin
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
Robo made a great breaktrough
tried few stuff
2 motor flipper is not bad ngl, more of a lifter but still
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gE9FaNnmJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gE9FaNnmJg)
Tried adding counterweights to the rear, but no luck, flipper would not close.
Grabbers wont work, becasue the motor actually retracts for some reason
Also axes work...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 11:25:44 AM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 12, 2019, 01:25:01 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 01:49:38 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?

Yeah it is parsec. Generally, everything is fine, maybe add a timer?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 12, 2019, 01:50:31 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?

Other than continuing development on the game, nothing much. A lot of the issues are either going to be ironed out, or on parsec ends

Possibly a match timer would be great to help keep track of stuff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 04:39:15 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 090901 on April 12, 2019, 04:44:05 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8

storm 2 is the rightful winner of robot wars series 7
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 12, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8

Wowsers!  That is effective!  Nice work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 13, 2019, 03:08:52 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 03:55:23 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 08:07:33 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

As far as the robot feeling too light, I’m planning to go back and look at physics again once everything is working in the botlab.  The goal is to be able to support all of the real-life weight classes, from antweight to super heavyweight.  It is going to take some serious tuning to get it right.

The single player game needs to feel like you are fighting in real-life tournaments: Bugglebots, Motorama, Sparkfun AVC, etc.  There is a lot of physics “feel” work that needs to be done over the summer to meet this goal.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 09:22:41 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 13, 2019, 09:53:46 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 10:06:04 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 11:08:33 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 01:58:19 PM
Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.
Trued with a controller. Honestly not my style, but it will be useful for irl bot builders
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 13, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.

The bot lab looks great so far, don't get me wrong, I just wish I had a better computer than my sh**ty six-year-old laptop so I could use it without immense lag.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 13, 2019, 02:54:20 PM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.

I have no idea what the braking does here to be honest.
As for controller, I could try getting my PS3 controller to work on PC.

Right now with the simple bit I made it's not just that it'll start to turn to a side when driving forward and backward, but sometimes it'll also start to just spin in place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 04:41:57 PM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.

I have no idea what the braking does here to be honest.
As for controller, I could try getting my PS3 controller to work on PC.

Right now with the simple bit I made it's not just that it'll start to turn to a side when driving forward and backward, but sometimes it'll also start to just spin in place.

That’s a really good description.  I’m pretty sure of the root cause and have several potential solutions.

The root cause of the problem is that as the wheels on one side come off the ground, a net torque is applied to turn the robot.  In a typical car driving game, we would model a compliant suspension system to eliminate this.  In RR2, there is no suspension travel, but we have a couple of different solutions:

1. Increase the sideways distance between the wheels.  This will increase the gravitational restoring torque and help keep both wheels planted.
2. Lower the center of mass. Ideally, the COM would be slightly below the ground plane, such that the robot always tries to right itself.  This is physically impossible.  In practice, try to put as much mass as low down as possible.
3. In code, create an electronic stability control system.  I tried this out during the game prototyping phase, and it worked really well to eliminate the problem when you are using a keyboard.  It works by cutting power to the drive wheel, and/or applying steering signal in the opposite direction to keep the robot driving straight.  It is a perfect solution, but it is limited by the location of the COM of the robot.  If you can solve the problem by getting the COM lower, that will give better handling overall.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 14, 2019, 12:08:35 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 14, 2019, 02:51:11 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.

Phew! What resolution brought things into an acceptable fps for you?  My Macbook Pro runs okay at 1/2 the max resolution.  My Macbook Air is only 1366x768, so it does fine at that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 14, 2019, 04:25:37 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.

Phew! What resolution brought things into an acceptable fps for you?  My Macbook Pro runs okay at 1/2 the max resolution.  My Macbook Air is only 1366x768, so it does fine at that.
I'm using 1280x800 in windowed mode, but I don't think that's the resolution it's actually displaying at. My laptop screen is 1600x900 and the game window is definitely not 800 pixels tall. But whatever. It runs, and that's the important thing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 15, 2019, 10:00:35 AM
I went back through all of the old RA2 AI python scripts, and put together a list of AI inputs that I think will allow us to implement all of the AI scripts.

If you are AI nerdy, please let me know if there is something that you might like to have as an input that isn't listed below.

The next step is to write all of the functions in miniscript (i.e. getMyPosition(), getDistanceToEdge(), etc.) that robots will need to create an AI system.

/// INPUTS RECEIVED FROM ROBOT'S SENSORS
// timer.timeRemaining - This is how many seconds are remaining in the match.
// timer.isRunning - 1 if the timer is running.  0 if the timer is stopped.
//
// robots[] - A list of all of the robots in the match.  robot[0] is the first robot.
//
// robots[0].tag - The player tag of robot #0.  Tags are "P1", "P2", "P3", "P4", "P5", "P6", "P7", or "P8".
// robots[0].team - The team of robot #0.  Team names are used in team matches.  (not implemented yet)
// robots[0].isHuman - 1 if the robot is under human control, 0 if AI controlled.
// robots[0].isDisabled - 1 if the robot has been knocked out.  0 if it is still in the match.
// robots[0].immobileTimeRemaining - Measured in seconds.
// robots]0].isImmobile - 1 if robot[0]'s immobile timer has been started.  0 if the immobile timer has been reset.
// robots[0].position.x - The position of robot[0] along the x (horizontal) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].position.y - The position of robot[0] along the y (up-down) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].position.z - The position of robot[0] along the z (horizontal) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].rotation.x - The position of robot[0] around the x (horizontal) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].rotation.y - The position of robot[0] around the y (vertical) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].rotation.z - The position of robot[0] around the x (horizontal) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].score.damage - robot[0]'s damage score
// robots[0].score.control - robot[0]'s control score
// robots[0].score.aggression - robot[0]'s aggression score
// robots[0].score.kingOfTheHill - robot[0]'s kingOfTheHill score. (No arenas use this yet.)
// robots[0].score.other - robot[0]'s score for the category called "other". (No arenas use this yet.)
// robots[0].health - robot[0]'s current chassis health
// robots[0].maxHealth - robot[0]'s maximum chassis health
// robots[0].heat - robot[0]'s current chassis heat
// robots[0].maxHeat - robot[0]'s maximum chassis heat
// robots[0].battery - robot[0]'s current battery status
// robots[0].maxBattery - robot[0]'s maximum battery status
// robots[0].gas - robot[0]'s current gas status
// robots[0].maxGas - robot[0]'s maximum gas status
//
// components[] - A list of all of the components on this robot. components[0] is the first component.
//
// components[0].type - components[0]'s type
// components[0].name - components[0]'s name
// components[0].health - components[0]'s health
//
// hazards[] - A list of all of the hazards in this arena. hazards[0] is the first hazard.
//
// hazards[0].name - The name assigned to hazards[0].
// hazards[0].threatLevel - The threat level of hazards[0].  This ranges from 0 (no threat) to 100 (one hit = dead).
// hazards[0].closestPoint.x - The x coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
// hazards[0].closestPoint.y - The y coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
// hazards[0].closestPoint.z - The z coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
//
// scoringAreas[] - A list of all of the scoring areas in this arena. scoringAreas[0] is the first scoring area.
//
// scoringAreas[0].name - The name assigned to scoringAreas[0].
// scoringAreas[0].value - The value of scoringAreas[0].  This ranges from 0 (none) to 100 (instant win).
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.x - The x coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.y - The y coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.z - The z coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].center.x - The x coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
// scoringAreas[0].center.y - The y coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
// scoringAreas[0].center.z - The z coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 21, 2019, 02:48:23 PM
I guess this had to be done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClIvmvvzbs
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 21, 2019, 04:00:27 PM
I guess this had to be done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClIvmvvzbs

Well done guys!  Just started on the video now.

What went well?

What was terrible?

I should have a good chunk of time to work on things this week...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 21, 2019, 04:49:45 PM
What went well?

What was terrible?
I wouldn't say anything was terrible, but...


There's probably more but it's 11pm and that's all my tired brain can think of.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 22, 2019, 05:43:17 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 07:08:37 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 22, 2019, 07:16:26 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on April 22, 2019, 08:35:58 AM
Hey! Absolutely loving the game as it is so far!

Just a few ideas and stuff I've had on how to make it absolute perfection (Apologies if I'm just spouting stuff that's already been advised/in progress!)
-In the bot builder, in addition to having the 'Snap' setting, I think it could also do with a user-variable for 'grid' size and rotation amount (To allow precise rotation of objects to be exactly 90degs, 45degs, 33.3degs, ect.)
-Some sort of 'Mirror' function... Maybe with the critical components (motors mainly) but especially with extras. Kind of like how in the old Bamzooki Creator you could place an object/limb onto the body and it would be automatically mirrored on the other side to make for easier, quicker building. Would also be especially helpful with the blueprint editor and future decal painter.
-With the blueprint editor, having the option to import vectors in the shape of a circle, triangle, and even the option to create curves would be very useful.
-The blueprint editor would also be a lot more effective with the ability to scale the vertices much like how you can scale them once they're rendered into 3d. I know it's possible to just move the vertices around but scaling would be beneficial with complex shapes and if the circles, triangles ect. got offered, would allow users to create shapes similar to that of, for example - Typhoon or Megabyte's shells. Also, smaller dots to represent the vertices for precision.

That's about all I can think of at the moment...
Hope this helps in some way! Please do keep up the amazing work as it is phenomenal!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KidDelta on April 22, 2019, 09:00:10 AM
This game is great and has some nice potential! but:


- I would  like to see a first person camera position. Nothing really major, but playing with the other camera positions just doesn't feel ideal to me, but then again, that's just me

-Flippers glitch a lot in the sumo arena

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 22, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 11:05:33 AM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
I believe "more powerful weapon motors" is already on the to-do list, along with a lot of balancing tweaks to improve the physics etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 22, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
I believe "more powerful weapon motors" is already on the to-do list, along with a lot of balancing tweaks to improve the physics etc.

True.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 22, 2019, 02:37:10 PM
In the little time I've been in this I found the lack of component descriptions to be a thing. Dunno of this is already planned to be done or if it's actually in there and I'm blind, but yeah.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
In the little time I've been in this I found the lack of component descriptions to be a thing. Dunno of this is already planned to be done or if it's actually in there and I'm blind, but yeah.
IIRC, you can right-click on a component in the list and it'll give you a little pop-up with the description.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 22, 2019, 03:01:38 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.



Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.

The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.

One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.

Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.

A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 22, 2019, 03:16:57 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.



Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.

The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.

One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.

Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.

A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Just to elaborate on my issue with the pit raising up. With the way the arena is at the moment, pretty much the only way bots that aren't spinners can win fights is to either pit their opponent, or get lucky and strand them on the wall. I don't think the pit raising up would be as much of an issue if there was alternative methods for non-spinners to KO their opponent (such as OOTA zones which Hop mentioned). Additionally, the fact that the walls do so much damage currently means that you can actually lose a not insignificant amount of HP from hitting the pit release, and having to do it multiple times per match can be quite draining on your health.

As Hop mentioned though, my overall impressions of the game have been almost overwhelmingly positive, so apologies if it seems like I've been dwelling on the negatives. The botlab and the wedge physics as they are right now have me particularly smitten, and I greatly look forward to how this game develops  :thumbup
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 06:19:25 AM
What went well?
  • While the physics still need tweaking, you're off to a good start - already we're getting the kinds of big spinner hits that you don't normally see in RA2.
  • I find it amazing how, even with the limited parts we have currently, we're already seeing such a great diversity of bot types, and they're effective. Bull and Bocuma are great flippers, and RT 2.0 actually pulled off a perfect grab-and-lift on at least one occasion, something you just can't do in RA2.
  • While there were the occasional havoks, and at least one crash, the game seems a lot more stable than DSL. Even Obama Gaming's flails didn't cause any problems.

What was terrible?
I wouldn't say anything was terrible, but...

  • Component destructibility (or at least, loss of health when components are hit) needs to be a thing. It's trivial to surround your chassis with armour (or in Drone's case, weaponry) and make yourself invincible.
  • Tone down the damage taken from hitting the wall in the Test Arena. Right now it's more damaging than 99% of weapons.
  • Additionally, certain bots (Bocuma, Fait Accompli) seem to have an issue where they take damage from the wall even if they hit it with a component wedge instead of their chassis. Would be nice if that could get looked at.

There's probably more but it's 11pm and that's all my tired brain can think of.

1. I can't believe Obama Gaming actually (sort of) worked!  I have a strategy that I might try to rework the flail physics to prevent the flail from being so stretchy.  I have no idea if it will work.  Its also pretty low on the priority list.  Fixing spinners is a lot more important to me -- we need to get spinners right.

2. Component destructibility is a huge issue, and quite a challenge with the optimizations we made to make things performant.  If you guys are interested, I can post more details about how things were built and why this is a challenge, but for now know that we aren't going to release the game until we can figure out an acceptable solution.

3. There are multiple types of damage happening.  Any time a component accelerates above a certain threshold value it takes "acceleration" damage.  In this way, a chassis can take damage even when it is completely surrounded in armor. 

One problem is that the threshold is set too low (10 g's, I think currently).  I don't have any data on this, but I suspect most electronics IRL don't really have a problem until you get up around 50-100 g's, maybe more.  As a result, both wall collisions and spinners cause the chassis to shake itself too violently and cause self-damage. 

The problem is particularly bad when you have a rigidbody chain as follows: wall <-> spinner or wedge <-> chassis.  The resulting impulse gets to be huge as PhysX tries to resolve the collision.  We are using PhysX as the physics engine for the game, but the explosions we call "Havoks" result from these sorts of interactions between multiple physics rigidbodies all lined up.

Maybe the solution is to get rid of acceleration damage entirely.  I dunno.  I like the idea that impacts can shake an entire robot to pieces, but maybe it isn't worth it because there isn't a way to limit the forces involved when rigidbodies are aligned in such a way as to cause an "explosion".
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 10:01:39 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?

The basic logic for a judging system is in place, though it isn't hooked up to arena yet.  Here's what I have so far:

1. Damage points: 1 point of damage = 1 point scored
2. Control points: points scored for every tick in which you are driving in a direction and your opponent's velocity matches your velocity
3. Aggression points: points scored for every tick in which you are driving toward your opponent
4. "King of the Hill" points: points for every tick you maintain control over a certain location in an arena

The 180-second game timer code is already in place, but again, no UI exists yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 10:51:30 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events

Interesting.  I didn't think about doing "Cease!" instead of directly declaring a winner for an externally judged event.  Maybe an options menu that caters to either internally refereed (single player) or externally refereed (Parsec tournament) play?

Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on April 23, 2019, 11:07:21 AM
Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?

It depends on how it can all be coded. I suppose if the AI was to 'judge' matches, 'Damage' could be determined by overall negative component HP caused on another robot, 'control' to be judged by stating areas in the arenas that would be ideally avoidable (such as hazards) and how often a robot drove over/near one of them, and 'aggression' to be judged by time/rate that a robot is near another or making contact. Since there are 3 criteria, the robot who scores most in 2 or all 3 criteria wins the fight. Just an idea though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 23, 2019, 11:09:07 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?

Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events

Interesting.  I didn't think about doing "Cease!" instead of directly declaring a winner for an externally judged event.  Maybe an options menu that caters to either internally refereed (single player) or externally refereed (Parsec tournament) play?

Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?

Usually there's an external judge in the case of tournaments, but in a for fun muck around environment, the ai can determine it. It'll be about which direction you'll want to take imo. But worst case external judges can overrule the ai system
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 11:55:34 AM
Hey! Absolutely loving the game as it is so far!

Just a few ideas and stuff I've had on how to make it absolute perfection (Apologies if I'm just spouting stuff that's already been advised/in progress!)
-In the bot builder, in addition to having the 'Snap' setting, I think it could also do with a user-variable for 'grid' size and rotation amount (To allow precise rotation of objects to be exactly 90degs, 45degs, 33.3degs, ect.)
-Some sort of 'Mirror' function... Maybe with the critical components (motors mainly) but especially with extras. Kind of like how in the old Bamzooki Creator you could place an object/limb onto the body and it would be automatically mirrored on the other side to make for easier, quicker building. Would also be especially helpful with the blueprint editor and future decal painter.
-With the blueprint editor, having the option to import vectors in the shape of a circle, triangle, and even the option to create curves would be very useful.
-The blueprint editor would also be a lot more effective with the ability to scale the vertices much like how you can scale them once they're rendered into 3d. I know it's possible to just move the vertices around but scaling would be beneficial with complex shapes and if the circles, triangles ect. got offered, would allow users to create shapes similar to that of, for example - Typhoon or Megabyte's shells. Also, smaller dots to represent the vertices for precision.

That's about all I can think of at the moment...
Hope this helps in some way! Please do keep up the amazing work as it is phenomenal!

1. Snapping already works in the Robot Workshop.  You can also type exact numbers by pulling out the menu arrow on the right side of the screen.  I usually pull out the numbers right away when I'm building.
2. Mirroring is an interesting idea.  I will let @tashic tackle that.  There is already a "duplicate" function, which when combined with manually setting an angle, will get you most of the way there, depending on symmetry.
3. Importing vectors is an interesting idea.  Making a shape in an .svg editor like Gravit Designer might be cool.  The ultimate solution is the RR2 Component Modding Tool, which will allow people to do whatever they want using whatever 3D tool they want.  My personal workflow will be Blender for modeling + Substance Painter for texturing -> RR2 Component Modding Tool -> RR2 Robot Workshop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 12:44:49 PM
This game is great and has some nice potential! but:


- I would  like to see a first person camera position. Nothing really major, but playing with the other camera positions just doesn't feel ideal to me, but then again, that's just me

-Flippers glitch a lot in the sumo arena

1. First person cameras are on the Trello board for us to look at again.  I tried it about a year ago, and it was totally unplayable due to how jerky the robot motion was.  Adding smoothing helped, but it was still nauseating.  I then spent some time with over the shoulder cameras, but it turns out these are extremely difficult to get right.  When it is done well (try the game called "Journey"), it looks completely effortless, but it might take a person months to get it to look right.  Depending on time, I might try to revisit it before launch.

2. What specifically was happening with the flippers in the Sumo arena?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 01:35:58 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.


I am so thrilled to hear this!  Getting rid of the tried and true "magic mobility" systems that most games use was a big gamble.  We had absolutely no idea whether just letting PhysX do its thing with spinning mesh colliders for wheels was a good idea, but it sounds like it has paid off, at least in terms of wedges.


Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Definitely on the list!  I think the problem is that shaking (acceleration-based) damage occurs at too low of a threshold.  I will try raising it to 100 g's or so to see if that make things a little better.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.


Armor doesn't do anything yet, other than add weight. :)


The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

I put a speed limiter on motors to minimize crazy physics explosions.  In a few weeks we will be switching over to a new version of PhysX that supposedly improves performance for high-speed spinners.  Once we have switched over, I am hoping to put spinners up to more or less full speed.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


I think I can do a quick-and-dirty fix for component damage, where damage to everything gets transferred to the chassis.  Robots will go from indestructible to *very* destructible with this, so it might take a little tweaking.  It should solve the "Drone" indestructibility issue though.  In the released version of the game, exposing motors like that will be a terrible idea.  IRL motors tend to die immediately when they get nicked by a spinner.

Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.


Undercutters are really difficult to pull off.  By design, they skim the ground.  In a game physics engine, everything is a little more compliant than in real life, so it is highly likely that a wheel will be smushed enough to put the tip of the spinner on the ground, launching the whole robot.  I'm not sure how much fixing I can do for this without making things super derpy.


One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.


Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.


Up until recently I had placed OOTA colliders along the wall.  My thought was that they weren't really necessary, because if someone got caught on a wall they would be counted out anyway.


Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.


Not yet.  Batteries definitely need to be a thing though.  A robot should be able to run at varying voltages, corresponding to various torque/speed characteristics for each motor.  Smaller motors will have lower voltage limits.

I'm not sure about ESCs and receivers though.  It might be that adding them is too much detail.  Thoughts?


A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


I like the way you think!!!  :beer:

Unfortunately, the Unity game engine doesn't play nicely with importing 3D models and textures at runtime.  We are planning to sidestep this by creating a RR2 Component Modding Tool project in Unity and placing it on GitHub for people to download.  The tool will be its own Unity project and allow you to make whatever crazy thing you want as a fully textured 3D model, then pull it into the game to be used as a robot component.

It doesn't work yet.


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 23, 2019, 04:33:29 PM
I put a speed limiter on motors to minimize crazy physics explosions.  In a few weeks we will be switching over to a new version of PhysX that supposedly improves performance for high-speed spinners.  Once we have switched over, I am hoping to put spinners up to more or less full speed.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sbedLpUKEsM/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 23, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 23, 2019, 05:21:54 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Actually, single thread performance is probably the biggest differentiator between laptops and gaming desktops. Most modern laptops have quad cores, as do most gaming PCs (over 55% of steam users are on a quad core system), however laptop CPUs are constrained by thermal/power limitations to low clock speeds, whereas desktop CPUs can boost to over 5GHz (depending on the exact chip).

It's good to hear that there's an inbuilt solution to high RPM collisions, the future is looking bright for this game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 07:45:33 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Actually, single thread performance is probably the biggest differentiator between laptops and gaming desktops. Most modern laptops have quad cores, as do most gaming PCs (over 55% of steam users are on a quad core system), however laptop CPUs are constrained by thermal/power limitations to low clock speeds, whereas desktop CPUs can boost to over 5GHz (depending on the exact chip).

It's good to hear that there's an inbuilt solution to high RPM collisions, the future is looking bright for this game

You might be right -- a faster CPU might allow us to double or triple the overall tick rate.  400 fps is fast, but 1000 fps is just a crazy psychological barrier. :) 

Check out the "Speculative continuous collision detection" blurb in the blog post below:

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/11/12/physics-changes-in-unity-2018-3-beta/ (https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/11/12/physics-changes-in-unity-2018-3-beta/)

We haven't upgraded yet, but are planning to do so once Unity comes out with their 2018.4 LTS release.  I'm hoping this comes sometime in the next few weeks so that we can play with it before the Bugglebots Alpha Build (BAB???) on May 25th.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on April 25, 2019, 12:22:06 PM
For the AI:
I need some more time to think about it, but off the top of my head here are some of the things I would like to see included:

Some way to know the approximate dimensions / reach of myself and my opponents
Time since my last collision with each other bot
Distance from and angle to each wall of the arena

I haven't looked at the new botbuilder recently but I think smartzones are important and so we need a way to check each of them
Normally distance to each robot is nice to have but that can be calculated from the x, y, z coordinates

There was another game called roboforge which had a well done AI system which I could probably refer to for more ideas, but its super old and I think has trouble running on newer computers.
I'll post more when I think of them.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 25, 2019, 01:03:32 PM
Great feedback here!  Thank you!

Some way to know the approximate dimensions / reach of myself and my opponents

I need to think about this a bit.  Right now I have the type of component and the health on each component of our own robot, but not the local position/reach.  I thought that since each robot would have its own custom AI code, it would be easy enough to adjust the values, but you are right in that it might be better to have AI code that adjusts itself to each new robot and doesn't require manual tweaking.

Time since my last collision with each other bot

This existed in RA2.  I wasn't quite sure how I would use it, so I left it off, but I can definitely include it if we need it.

Distance from and angle to each wall of the arena

In RR2, "walls" aren't explicitly defined.  Any object in the scene (wall, crate, spinner, fence, stairs, the side of a ramp, etc.) can be a navigation obstacle. 

Arenas have predefined navmeshes that are computed once all of the obstacles are placed in the scene.  I am relying on Unity's built-in NavMesh system to do this.

In addition to the arena's NavMesh, "hazards" can also be placed in the scene.  These are things that are not robots, but explicitly cause threats to robots, such as Out of the Arena colliders, arena spinners, lava pits, etc.

The AI system receives inputs from each of these differently:

NavMesh - A method exists that returns a list of (x,y,z) waypoints when given a destination from the robot's current position.

Arena Hazards - A method exists that returns the location (x,y,z) of the closest point and the center point of the nearest hazard.

I haven't looked at the new botbuilder recently but I think smartzones are important and so we need a way to check each of them
Normally distance to each robot is nice to have but that can be calculated from the x, y, z coordinates

Once smart zones are made available in the workshop, they should be fed into the AI.  We don't have them available in the workshop yet.  The AI code is already written to include basic smart zone information though.

Distance between robots can be computed because you can get a list of all of the robots in the scene.  By default, the gets a list of waypoints to the nearest robot, then drives toward getWaypoints[0].

There was another game called roboforge which had a well done AI system which I could probably refer to for more ideas, but its super old and I think has trouble running on newer computers.
I'll post more when I think of them.

Nice!  Apanx also mentioned robocode, which looked like a good place to mine for ideas.


Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 25, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Yeah about that. I was thinking about using it for my next tournament, but problems are apparent as it can be witnessed in this video:
https://youtu.be/Jj-f7YfPlEc
Sorry about poor quality. OBS was a pita so i had to lower bitrate
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 09:17:57 AM
One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Yeah about that. I was thinking about using it for my next tournament, but problems are apparent as it can be witnessed in this video:
https://youtu.be/Jj-f7YfPlEc
Sorry about poor quality. OBS was a pita so i had to lower bitrate

Ahh.  The overwhelming power of the arena spinner.  We can work on that.

I think the issue is that the arena spinner is treated as a kinematic rigidbody, meaning we are directly setting the orientation of the spinner every frame, instead of letting the physics system handle it.  This means that the spinner effectively has an infinite mass, and everything that it collides with as it spins is going to go flying away uncontrollably -- there is no "give" when it hits.  This should be a relatively easy fix, just swapping it out with a regular old hinge motor attached to the ground.

While we are at it, we might just have to add the Motenergy ME0909 to the game. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 26, 2019, 10:31:14 AM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 01:05:18 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 26, 2019, 01:44:31 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
No game is running perfect, it happens off recording too
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 01:54:16 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
No game is running perfect, it happens off recording too

Hmm... So weird.  I'll take a look to see if I can find anything fishy about the way the arena was put together.

The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is that the warehouse has a huge semi-transparent area, which tends to make things more difficult for a computer's GPU.  This shouldn't directly affect the physics though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
Suggestion, have bots be saved in the game install directory, instead of the AppData folder. Makes the game more portable and makes the files easier to find for sharing purposes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on April 28, 2019, 04:46:00 PM
I agree with Badger here. Also if there's ever modding with lots of custom components we might want multiple installs that don't interfere with each other, though there are other ways around that.

Is there anyway I can see what features are planned for future versions? Anyway, I have some suggestions after building in the botlab for some time. A lot of suggestions and a lot of them are complex, so I don't expect you to agree with all of them or try to implement much of what's here in the near future, I know you guys are busy.
I know you guys are not nearly done with the botlab and that given time you guys will make it great, but talking about the botlab right now as it is, it's still pretty clunky in the sense that it takes a very long time to use the controls and the tools given to you to make the botlab do what you want it to do. First of all, I think keyboard shortcuts would improve the building experience 1000%. Things like pressing x to focus the x coordinate, delete for deleting components, arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating, basically all the buttons and fields in the interface should have some keyboard mapping because clicking on everything takes forever. Remapping keys would also be great, i.e. i much prefer RMB to MMB for panning. As it is, it's very easy to make mistakes by putting the wrong numbers into the coordinates or into the wrong coordinates, and it's also way too easy to get yourself into a situation where you move something too far away and can only fix it through editing the bot file. An undue button would be a great help for this, and additionally some way to control the max distance from origin of all the components and toggle the room that you are in would all be huge helps. It's also really easy to get objects stuck inside of others, and there's currently a glitch where some small objects won't be able to be selected unless you exit and join the workshop. A lot of these issues could also be helped by having an expandable tree view of all the components like in the bot file and being able to select components like that. Being able to turn off blur from being too close would also be great. When using the moving sliders, they go in increments of .025, and if the component isn't currently at a multiple of .025 then it snaps to a multiple: there should be some way to turn the snapping to a multiple off, because a lot of the more complex builds will not use those multiples very often. This also applies to the rotation and size sliders. There should be a way to control what interval the moving axes move by, either through a field or through several hotkeys which are each set to common values, i.e. .01 and .005 with .025 as the default. It would be great if there was some way to change the directions of the coordinate system so that it doesn't have to be determined by what the object is sitting on, a lot of the times I just want the normal xyz directions. It would be fantastic if there was a way to copy the x, y, or z coordinate of one object and then set the coordinate to another in a streamlined fashion, e.g. hold x while clicking on another object. It would also be great if there was some way to clone mirrors of objects and flip each of the components. It would be nice if we could smooth components along a certain rotational axis. For the chassis and custom object builder it would be great if we could change the numerical values of the xy coordinates via text field of each of the vertices like we can for objects in the rest of the builder.

edit: also deleting objects doesn't need a warning, but deleting an object plus all the things that connect to it should be allowed and with warning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 28, 2019, 05:07:09 PM
Suggestion, have bots be saved in the game install directory, instead of the AppData folder. Makes the game more portable and makes the files easier to find for sharing purposes.

True, but it also gets overwritten on app updates, and potentially suffers from permission issues, where only installers have permission to write to the directory, not the applications themselves.  We can look into it a little more, but no promises on this one.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 28, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating,
I honestly want to see keyboard movement for more precise, movepixel like stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 28, 2019, 05:26:56 PM
I agree with Badger here. Also if there's ever modding with lots of custom components we might want multiple installs that don't interfere with each other, though there are other ways around that.

Is there anyway I can see what features are planned for future versions? Anyway, I have some suggestions after building in the botlab for some time. A lot of suggestions and a lot of them are complex, so I don't expect you to agree with all of them or try to implement much of what's here in the near future, I know you guys are busy.
I know you guys are not nearly done with the botlab and that given time you guys will make it great, but talking about the botlab right now as it is, it's still pretty clunky in the sense that it takes a very long time to use the controls and the tools given to you to make the botlab do what you want it to do. First of all, I think keyboard shortcuts would improve the building experience 1000%. Things like pressing x to focus the x coordinate, delete for deleting components, arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating, basically all the buttons and fields in the interface should have some keyboard mapping because clicking on everything takes forever. Remapping keys would also be great, i.e. i much prefer RMB to MMB for panning. As it is, it's very easy to make mistakes by putting the wrong numbers into the coordinates or into the wrong coordinates, and it's also way too easy to get yourself into a situation where you move something too far away and can only fix it through editing the bot file. An undue button would be a great help for this, and additionally some way to control the max distance from origin of all the components and toggle the room that you are in would all be huge helps. It's also really easy to get objects stuck inside of others, and there's currently a glitch where some small objects won't be able to be selected unless you exit and join the workshop. A lot of these issues could also be helped by having an expandable tree view of all the components like in the bot file and being able to select components like that. Being able to turn off blur from being too close would also be great. When using the moving sliders, they go in increments of .025, and if the component isn't currently at a multiple of .025 then it snaps to a multiple: there should be some way to turn the snapping to a multiple off, because a lot of the more complex builds will not use those multiples very often. This also applies to the rotation and size sliders. There should be a way to control what interval the moving axes move by, either through a field or through several hotkeys which are each set to common values, i.e. .01 and .005 with .025 as the default. It would be great if there was some way to change the directions of the coordinate system so that it doesn't have to be determined by what the object is sitting on, a lot of the times I just want the normal xyz directions. It would be fantastic if there was a way to copy the x, y, or z coordinate of one object and then set the coordinate to another in a streamlined fashion, e.g. hold x while clicking on another object. It would also be great if there was some way to clone mirrors of objects and flip each of the components. It would be nice if we could smooth components along a certain rotational axis. For the chassis and custom object builder it would be great if we could change the numerical values of the xy coordinates via text field of each of the vertices like we can for objects in the rest of the builder.

Thank you so much for taking the time to dig into the bot building process.  There is so much great feedback here, it is going to take a while to parse through all of it.

Right now we have an internal Trello board that is growing a lot faster than it is shrinking, so no promises yet on getting a public-facing version of it going.  We are working as fast as we can, and I’m more than a little afraid of what would happen to our ability to process the feature requests if we opened things up to the general public at this point.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 30, 2019, 03:52:07 PM
After doing some more building recently, I've got a bit more feedback regarding the bot builder. My biggest bugbear at the moment is chassis editing, which at the moment works something like this:


Needless to say, this is quite annoying. I'd love to try making a "shrink-wrapped" chassis design like I used to in RA3, but this (and the fact you can't see your internal components while chassis-editing) makes it a bit tedious and difficult.

I've also found that sometimes, a component that's small or mostly-hidden isn't selectable when it should be. I can click on it, and I absolutely am clicking on it, but it selects whatever's next to it instead. Pain in the arse when trying to move or colour the more finicky parts of your robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 09, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 09, 2019, 04:06:40 PM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.

Interesting.  We haven't started on ESCs yet, but this is definitely something that could be programmed into an ESC.

Also, we just added a drill motor with a lot less torque than an Ampflow, which might accomplish the same thing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 11, 2019, 05:13:36 PM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Unless you have separate drive motors and weapon motors like in DSL, then I think this will also be needed once the motor buff comes into effect. You want your weapon motor to be going at (say) 3000 RPM, but if your drive motors are going that fast, your robot will be doing 60mph and be completely uncontrollable.

It'd be handy (and realistic) if lowering the RPM also increased the torque. You could make shovebots that drive slowly but have a tonne of pushing power, or electric lifters/crushers with some serious force behind them. RA3 had something similar for spin motors, but you could increase speed and torque separately and there was no incentive to not just crank them both up to 100, so the sliders may as well have not been there at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 07:47:57 AM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Unless you have separate drive motors and weapon motors like in DSL, then I think this will also be needed once the motor buff comes into effect. You want your weapon motor to be going at (say) 3000 RPM, but if your drive motors are going that fast, your robot will be doing 60mph and be completely uncontrollable.

It'd be handy (and realistic) if lowering the RPM also increased the torque. You could make shovebots that drive slowly but have a tonne of pushing power, or electric lifters/crushers with some serious force behind them. RA3 had something similar for spin motors, but you could increase speed and torque separately and there was no incentive to not just crank them both up to 100, so the sliders may as well have not been there at all.

The plan right now is as follows:

1. Put as many real-world motors as possible in the game.  This includes geared and non-geared versions as appropriate.  The Ampflows currently in the game are already using real-world numbers.
2. I am planning to use the following specs for each motor.

a. no-load speed at rated voltage (depends on number and voltage of battery bank)
b. stall torque at rated voltage (depends on number and voltage of battery bank)
c. stall current at rated voltage
d. mass in kg
e. dimensions in meters

Pushing power is dependent not only on torque, but also on the available wheel friction.  We don't have a super-accurate friction model, but it seems to be working well enough for now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 12, 2019, 09:17:59 AM
Honestly, for this game i dont have many requests atm, only ones i kinda have:
-Transparency scale for polycarb components, as current ones are kinda meh, and barely transparent when component is thin
-Smooth texture option for materials, because current ones look like pavement honestly, and look out of place when component is stretched
-Overvolting. But i would kinda avoid that until battery consumption works
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 12, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
I would imagine that smaller batteries are planned, as the current ones are basically SLA car batteries, and modern combat robots all use LiPos.

Geared and non-geared seems like a sensible compromise regarding motor speeds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 05:11:28 PM
Sorry - I forgot to mention that we are using a basic DC motor torque-speed curve as well.

Maximum torque occurs at zero speed.  Torque drops linearly with speed.  At maximum speed, there is zero torque.

In theory this should give a nice, realistic speed buildup over time.

In practice, I'm having a little bit of trouble at the moment figuring out why speed is only building up to 1600 RPM on a motor that is supposed to top out at 4000 RPM.  Speed is pretty erratic too, jumping up to 1600 RPM, then suddenly down to 100, then back up again.  I will have to do some work to stabilize spinners and make them nice and consistent like their real-life counterparts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
I would imagine that smaller batteries are planned, as the current ones are basically SLA car batteries, and modern combat robots all use LiPos.

Geared and non-geared seems like a sensible compromise regarding motor speeds.

Agreed.  The existing ones are the 12V 7 Amp-Hour batteries that my students use in their competition.  I have LiPos and LiFePos on the list of things to model.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 12, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
One other thing I'd like to see added is custom wheels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 08:23:55 PM
One other thing I'd like to see added is custom wheels.

The RR2 Component Modding Tool is on to-do list, and should handle this quite nicely.  I'm hoping people come up with all sorts of crazy things for wheels. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 17, 2019, 04:40:35 PM
There has been a new update and i have some feedback
First and most importantly, damage. Damage is currently pretty good, only gripes i have with it is that it is unfair to small components. Like if a component is tiny but it has 50 mm steel, it will fall off easier than it should. Also motors fall off too easy, like self-destruct easy. I cant flip a bot without breaking the motor off.
Oh yeah flipping. Linear actuators are working. Hinged ones are added for flippers. And boy they are powerful! Issues im having are the fact that it falls off too easy, and the fact that it clips thru other stuff sometimes.
Also for some reason, bots are kind of bouncy
Epic arena btw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 04:47:19 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 05:34:48 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 05:39:39 PM
I also switched to PhysX 3.4 from PhysX 3.3.  This significantly reduced CPU load, but might have messed with other things as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 06:01:49 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 06:25:07 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots

Shoot.  I will take a look at it next week to see what I can do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 06:37:00 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots

Shoot.  I will take a look at it next week to see what I can do.
Just to clarify, by existing bots, I mean bots that I built in a previous update, rather than the AI bots in game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 06:53:53 PM
Just to clarify, by existing bots, I mean bots that I built in a previous update, rather than the AI bots in game

Would you mind sending me the bots you are using for testing?  It should make it a little easier to compare things vs the ones I already have.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 19, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 21, 2019, 03:24:25 PM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:

Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
2. The AI builder should fire button 1 when close.  There was apparently a bug which prevented anyone from pressing button 1, which has been fixed.
3. I just added a super low gear ratio 37 mm motor.  It can flip beetleweights now.  I feel like the existing gear motor should have been able to lift other robots, but for some reason 1 Newton-meter of torque didn't translate into 10 Newtons of force at 10 cm.  The new motor has a LOT more torque, so it should do the trick.
4. I tweaked Manta, TR3, and Earthquake.  They all flip in different ways.
5. You can now use a laptop trackpad in the botlab.  Woohoo!  Building robots on the work computer! :)

I still have more tweaking and balancing to do, but hopefully should be able to push something out in the next 24 hours...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 22, 2019, 11:34:01 AM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:

Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
2. The AI builder should fire button 1 when close.  There was apparently a bug which prevented anyone from pressing button 1, which has been fixed.
3. I just added a super low gear ratio 37 mm motor.  It can flip beetleweights now.  I feel like the existing gear motor should have been able to lift other robots, but for some reason 1 Newton-meter of torque didn't translate into 10 Newtons of force at 10 cm.  The new motor has a LOT more torque, so it should do the trick.
4. I tweaked Manta, TR3, and Earthquake.  They all flip in different ways.
5. You can now use a laptop trackpad in the botlab.  Woohoo!  Building robots on the work computer! :)

I still have more tweaking and balancing to do, but hopefully should be able to push something out in the next 24 hours...


Sounds good!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 22, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
Honestly, you couldve buffed up the hp multiplier for stuff by 400%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2019, 06:23:14 PM
So up until now, material selection hasn’t affected damage resistance.  I’m starting to address that in the next build.  The 1 mm thick UHMW on Holy Wings flipper is not going to last long though.  😊
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2019, 07:07:15 PM
I’m going to attempt to make a distinction between hardness and toughness:

UHMW is a very tough material.  It will take a lot of hits, but is susceptible to puncture because it is not hard.

Polycarbonate is a harder material, but brittle.  It will resist puncture, but is susceptible to shock.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on May 22, 2019, 11:16:02 PM
Nice armor mechanism. That will make concussion or piercing, or RA2's equivalent of shock or puncture, far meaningful and important
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 23, 2019, 02:08:42 AM
So up until now, material selection hasn’t affected damage resistance.  I’m starting to address that in the next build.  The 1 mm thick UHMW on Holy Wings flipper is not going to last long though.  😊
Most of people use 1mm armour on flippers, niw that there is actual damage and durability mechanism, people will be smarter
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 05:57:22 AM
Bugglebots built #2 is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


Also, our Bugglebots teaser trailer.  Thanks Callum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb9otlrujE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb9otlrujE)



[Added in Bugglebots Build #1]

[New in Bugglebots Build #2]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 08:24:16 AM
Played it: here is the feedback
1. Flipper motors are still broken, they flip and break off
2. Music is added back, and i cant mute it
3. Worst one, you either get one hit KO'ed or do a one Hit KO
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 08:40:53 AM
Okay so I just tried this out and just from the first few minutes I have this feedback:

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 08:54:57 AM
Played it: here is the feedback
1. Flipper motors are still broken, they flip and break off
2. Music is added back, and i cant mute it
3. Worst one, you either get one hit KO'ed or do a one Hit KO

1. and 3. - I've been testing with Holy Wings versus a horizontal spinner.  I have found that if you leave everything on Holy Wings at 1 mm UHMW, the heavy spinning bar will indeed one-hit destroy any UHMW that it touches.  This is fairly realistic.  1 mm UHMW is like protecting your robot with cardboard against a big spinner.  If you armor everything with about 5 mm of steel, however, Holy Wings survives a lot longer. 

The biggest problem I am finding now is that the motors don't have enough torque to lift the flipper arms fast enough to work as flippers against another heavyweight.  Now that all of the UHMW has been replaced by thicker steel armor, Holy Wings is just a wedge that can wave "hi!" with its flipper arms.  I'm not sure how the bigger AmpFlow PMDC motors would work as flippers in real life either.  To my knowledge people tend to use pneumatics for heavyweight flippers.

2. So sorry about the music!  I'm not sure what happened here, but we definitely need to fix this. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 09:04:25 AM
Okay so I just tried this out and just from the first few minutes I have this feedback:

  • Manta's flipper is really havok-y. It manages one or two flips that yeet me right into the ceiling, and then it spends the rest of the fight propelling itself around the arena at warp-speed while its flipper panel glitches into another dimension. I've had the same issue with Goodbye Kiss's axe in the past, dunno if that helps at all. Earthquake's flipper doesn't close properly, preventing it from firing more than once or twice. TR3's flipper seems to work fine.
  • None of my robots' weapons work anymore. I get that you can now choose which button fires them, but the dropdown just says "Button1", "Button2" etc, with no clue as to what those buttons actually are. Is it possible that you added controller compatibility for Bugglebots, but broke keyboard compatibility in the process?
  • Bots still seem too fragile. I thought this might have been just Fait Accompli and its 3mm steel, which is the bare minimum for a real-life HW, but then I noticed that sometimes, I'll start taking massive damage while just driving normally, without my opponent anywhere near me. I can only imagine that my robot is somehow rubbing against the floor, and the game is interpreting that as damage. Ignoring the fact that a 6WD robot like Fait Accompli shouldn't be touching the floor with anything but its wheels in the first place, this should not be enough to kill you in two seconds.

1. Re: Manta - Oof.  I struggled with Manta for about three hours on Tuesday night.  In the game, pneumatics use a plunger system that pushes on the lifting arm to cause it to raise.  In Manta's case, the plunger is really far back, which means that the physics engine can do wonky things as the plunger penetrates the flipper arm and the physics engine computes the impulse required to resolve the collision.  I thought I had it working well, but you aren't the first one to report that it is broken.

Back to the drawing (tweaking) board...

2. Re: Unworking weapons - There is still a bug that I haven't found that sometimes prevents button inputs from being read.  This is an intermittent problem.  My workaround has been to go back to the Robot Selection screen and start over.  For me starting over fixes it about 70% of the time.  I definitely need to track this down, but each time I think I have solved it, it pops up again.

3. Re: Driving damage - You are absolutely right.  Driving normally shouldn't damage a robot.  Somehow or another something is registering a collision with a ton of impulse.  Would you mind sending me Fait Accompli?  I would like to do some testing.  I have a few things I have in mind to improve driving dynamics that might solve this problem as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 09:37:55 AM
1. Re: Manta - Oof.  I struggled with Manta for about three hours on Tuesday night.  In the game, pneumatics use a plunger system that pushes on the lifting arm to cause it to raise.  In Manta's case, the plunger is really far back, which means that the physics engine can do wonky things as the plunger penetrates the flipper arm and the physics engine computes the impulse required to resolve the collision.  I thought I had it working well, but you aren't the first one to report that it is broken.

Back to the drawing (tweaking) board...
I think Manta's flipper has been broken for a while tbh, I managed to make it glitch out at least once in the previous build.

2. Re: Unworking weapons - There is still a bug that I haven't found that sometimes prevents button inputs from being read.  This is an intermittent problem.  My workaround has been to go back to the Robot Selection screen and start over.  For me starting over fixes it about 70% of the time.  I definitely need to track this down, but each time I think I have solved it, it pops up again.
I'll try that. I assume Button1 is Space, then?

3. Re: Driving damage - You are absolutely right.  Driving normally shouldn't damage a robot.  Somehow or another something is registering a collision with a ton of impulse.  Would you mind sending me Fait Accompli?  I would like to do some testing.  I have a few things I have in mind to improve driving dynamics that might solve this problem as well.
Yep, I'll send it over right away.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 10:05:19 AM
1. and 3. - I've been testing with Holy Wings versus a horizontal spinner.  I have found that if you leave everything on Holy Wings at 1 mm UHMW, the heavy spinning bar will indeed one-hit destroy any UHMW that it touches.  This is fairly realistic.  1 mm UHMW is like protecting your robot with cardboard against a big spinner.  If you armor everything with about 5 mm of steel, however, Holy Wings survives a lot longer. 
Problem is that the bots i was fighting had Steel armour. This OHKO also tends to happen to prebuilt bots

The biggest problem I am finding now is that the motors don't have enough torque to lift the flipper arms fast enough to work as flippers against another heavyweight.  Now that all of the UHMW has been replaced by thicker steel armor,
Make Servo motors that have high torque?
As for the flipper arms, i have been using Hinged actuators which are op

Holy Wings is just a wedge that can wave "hi!" with its flipper arms.  I'm not sure how the bigger AmpFlow PMDC motors would work as flippers in real life either.  To my knowledge people tend to use pneumatics for heavyweight flippers.
Well tbh that is old wings, it does not use a hinged actuator for flipping

Another oddity that i find is that when keys are binded, it keeps the control (lets say space), but if i rebind it again, the old imput key (space) will stay written while the new key will be functional

Also Metals have this odd Blue-ish tint where tint RGB is set on all to 1

AAAAAAlso like it how lightweight bots have great driving, but HW bots tend to bounce, 4wd ones atleast
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 10:56:21 AM

I think Manta's flipper has been broken for a while tbh, I managed to make it glitch out at least once in the previous build.

True.  Its flipper geometry makes it tough for the physics engine.  I might have to do some cheating with the visuals to get rid of the problem entirely.

I'll try that. I assume Button1 is Space, then?

Correct.  This is reconfigurable, but space is the default.

Yep, I'll send it over right away.

Excellent!  I'll see what I can do.  I had a brainstorm last night which will take some work but might make driving a lot smoother for all robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 11:02:41 AM
Did my PM get through to you? The first time I tried, I got a "there's already a file with this name" error, and the second time I tried, I got a "you've already sent this PM" error. And GTM annoyingly doesn't save messages to your outbox by default, so I don't know whether either of them actually got sent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Problem is that the bots i was fighting had Steel armour. This OHKO also tends to happen to prebuilt bots

Was this happening even when the chassis had steel armor?  Steel armor on a large body should give a ton of HP that should take a while to chip through. 

The new puncturing system might be the culprit.  If a robot hits a UHMW piece that is easy to puncture, it will generate a ton of puncture damage that will carry over into the chassis.  I've seen cases where a spinner punctures a UHMW or MDF piece for a 45x damage multiplier.  Instead of just saying that the component is dead and stopping there, that damage is then transferred to the chassis.  This could easily disable a bot.  Need to nerf this.

The prebuilt bots don't use the same system, so we can give them infinite HP without affecting the Botlab robots.

Make Servo motors that have high torque?
As for the flipper arms, i have been using Hinged actuators which are op
Well tbh that is old wings, it does not use a hinged actuator for flipping


Ah!  I was wondering how your flippers were so powerful!  @tashic put them in, but I haven't experimented with them yet.



Another oddity that i find is that when keys are binded, it keeps the control (lets say space), but if i rebind it again, the old imput key (space) will stay written while the new key will be functional

So weird...


Also Metals have this odd Blue-ish tint where tint RGB is set on all to 1


Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.


AAAAAAlso like it how lightweight bots have great driving, but HW bots tend to bounce, 4wd ones atleast

Driving again!  Need to fix this! :)  I have something in mind.  I don't know if it will work, but it has the potential to make driving a lot smoother.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 11:15:37 AM
Did my PM get through to you? The first time I tried, I got a "there's already a file with this name" error, and the second time I tried, I got a "you've already sent this PM" error. And GTM annoyingly doesn't save messages to your outbox by default, so I don't know whether either of them actually got sent.

I have not received a PM from you.  I just sent you a PM with my email address.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 11:23:44 AM
Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.
Its throughout the whole game, so it might be post processing, UHMW is white tho
Also any chances to use an option to disable post processing? I have a feeling that that might be the culprit to the lag on lower end machines

As for driving, Just remove friction for now
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on May 24, 2019, 12:30:28 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel, weapon, or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 24, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.

My assumption is that it being all chained to the chassis ripples in. Killing the chassis
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 12:45:29 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.

My assumption is that it being all chained to the chassis ripples in. Killing the chassis

Agreed.  The easy fix is to stop all damage propagation, but getting parts to break off nicely becomes an issue in this case.

Another alternative is to just roll all components that are contained within the same rigid body into a single, combined HP number.  Don’t do breakage at all for components within a rigid body.  Everything that isn’t connected via a hinge joint would then be part of the chassis.

I’ll give this a go today to see how it feels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 12:55:28 PM
Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.
Its throughout the whole game, so it might be post processing, UHMW is white tho
Also any chances to use an option to disable post processing? I have a feeling that that might be the culprit to the lag on lower end machines

As for driving, Just remove friction for now

Interesting.  We’ll see if we can add disabling post processing to the “Low Quality” setting.

Friction coefficient is currently set to zero for all chassis materials.  I believe the reason things drive a little weirdly is that when the chassis skids along the floor the collision resolution impulse direction isn’t always purely vertical.  I have had luck in the past adding sphere colliders to the bottom of a robot to fix this.  I might try to do this automatically for all botlab robots.  I can see where this might make wedges a little less effective, as the tip of the wedge would be just slightly off the ground.  Maybe it wouldn’t be too bad if all robots were subject to the same limitation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 01:45:09 PM
Did my PM get through to you?

I just tried out Fait Accompli and fixed the concussion damage issue when the robot is driving around.  It turns out that I had set the minimum impulse limit ridiculously low such that pretty much every heavyweight would damage itself just by driving.

I also noticed that the axe didn't move when triggered.  I tried dropping the thickness of the steel used.  That did the trick.  Here are my settings:

Axe head (pyramid) - 6 mm steel - 0.481 kg
Axe shaft (cube) - 3 mm steel - 0.637 kg

Now to see what it does to other robots...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 01:55:36 PM
Did my PM get through to you?

I just tried out Fait Accompli and fixed the concussion damage issue when the robot is driving around.  It turns out that I had set the minimum impulse limit ridiculously low such that pretty much every heavyweight would damage itself just by driving.

I also noticed that the axe didn't move when triggered.  I tried dropping the thickness of the steel used.  That did the trick.  Here are my settings:

Axe head (pyramid) - 6 mm steel - 0.481 kg
Axe shaft (cube) - 3 mm steel - 0.637 kg

Now to see what it does to other robots...
Oh, so the weapon actually did work, it was just too heavy for the motor? Well gee, now I feel stupid  :facepalm: I did actually run another test with Defcon and its weapon worked just fine (it even gyros now!), so I guess that was all that was wrong. I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!

Thanks!

I also have a sneaking suspicion that when I tell the physics system to give me a certain number of Newton-meters of torque, the system isn't giving me that much torque.  I'll have to set up a test rig in Unity to see for sure.  I feel like the motor you are using should be able to swing that axe head around in real life.

FWIW I have a 6" diameter motor in the works for weapons, similar to the old E-teks.  I'm not sure how it would work for an axebot, but it should be killer for spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 02:17:58 PM
I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!

Thanks!

I also have a sneaking suspicion that when I tell the physics system to give me a certain number of Newton-meters of torque, the system isn't giving me that much torque.  I'll have to set up a test rig in Unity to see for sure.  I feel like the motor you are using should be able to swing that axe head around in real life.

FWIW I have a 6" diameter motor in the works for weapons, similar to the old E-teks.  I'm not sure how it would work for an axebot, but it should be killer for spinners.
I lowered the weight of the axe and it still didn't swing in the test area... then I switched the motor's activation button to Button 2 and then back to Button 1, and it worked perfectly. I think what might actually be happening is, where I've ported my bots over from the previous version, there's some sort of compatibility issue and it doesn't know what key should activate the robot's weapon until I go into the bot lab and tell it.

It now also doesn't self-right anymore, which might be because of the lowered weight, or it might be a torque issue. It was just about able to self-right in the previous build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
I feel like the motor isn't quite torquey enough, and doesn't generate the tip speed it should.

For the moment I have set the minimum tip speed for rotating puncturing objects to be 10 m/s.  The axe isn't quite there, and doesn't seem to be able to get above 10 m/s there no matter how much I drop the mass.  The axe itself is breaking off from being hit before the tip does any damage to its opponent.

My brain is full and I need to head home.  I'll think about it on the drive home tonight.

Some options:
1. Reduce the tip speed requirement.  This is bad, because all of a sudden just bumping into stuff will cause damage.

2. Increase the motor torque.

Thinking about #2, I just checked the torque and saw that the stall torque on an AmpFlow A40-300 is only 27 Newton-meters.  This is pretty low, considering how we are asking it to swing a big heavy axe.

I'm going to pop in the geared version of the motor.  I have an Ampflow A28-400G already modeled.  Hopefully the 220 Newton-meters of the geared version will be enough to swing the axe in a satisfying way.

EDIT - Now that I'm thinking about it, even a 220 Nm (approximately 22 kg-meter) gear motor might have trouble turning over a 100 kg robot with an arm like that.  Need to do some calculations to be sure, but...

EDIT OF MY EDIT - Considering that the existing motor can just barely swing the arm now, it is no wonder that tip speed is not reaching 10 m/s.  The tip is basically just falling 1 meter from its peak, with barely any help from the motor.  A 1 meter fall only gives a speed of 4.4 m/s.  Must have bigger motor with more torque.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on May 24, 2019, 05:24:32 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 05:30:14 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 24, 2019, 05:31:35 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)

Unless this is the next meta game  :really_makes_you_think: heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 25, 2019, 07:48:22 AM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)

Unless this is the next meta game  :really_makes_you_think: heck

As much as protecting your fallen bits seems like a cool mechanic, its fixed.

Wah wuh. :ermm:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 28, 2019, 10:58:34 AM
Small tip for laptop users
Ctrl+Mouse/trackpad movement = Camera roataes
Shift+Mouse/trackpad movement = Camera zooms in/out
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 28, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
An actioncam by default wouldn't hurt the game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Merrick on May 28, 2019, 04:30:39 PM
Is there a building tutorial knocking about somewhere that I'm missing? Can't get my head around the workshop at times.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
Not really.  Its mostly tribal knowledge right now, as we have been actively changing a lot of things for the past year.

In general:

1. Design a chassis.
2. Add motors.
3. Stick stuff onto motors.
4. Set up your controls for the motors.  You probably need to have at least one "Left" and at least one "Right".  The other thing that we've found is that you need to click the "Reverse Direction" on each motor.  This is something we still need to sort out.

What are you trying to build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Is there anyone here who has judged a robot combat event?  We just had our post-Bugglebots debrief and we were talking about how to do scoring in game.

Damage - Already done, we just need to display it
Aggression - Compute dot product of velocity vector and normalized displacement to other robot.  The result should give the amount of time that a robot is driving toward its opponent.
Control - ???

How does one measure "control"?  This one is super-duper subjective.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 05:17:28 PM
Sup guys, just tried to build a ?BW? in the new build.

Some issues I have is with component vs chassis scaling vs movement on the grid scaling. They all seem to want to not co-operate. Right now I'm thinking the wheels & batteries are the issue with component scaling and making something on the grid that is small enough and detailed enough is proving quite difficult, even with the scaling tool.

Other things I had an issue with is the drive. Now it just is sluggish, not sure if thats a change you've made to the beefier motors to accommodate for the BW motors but it seems to lack torque and results in poor turning speed.

Damage itself is really whacky. I've had bumping into spinners only to have the spinning disc fall of on the spinning bot. Quite funny ngl

Here's the attemped BW in reference to my scaling concern
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Is there anyone here who has judged a robot combat event?  We just had our post-Bugglebots debrief and we were talking about how to do scoring in game.

Damage - Already done, we just need to display it
Aggression - Compute dot product of velocity vector and normalized displacement to other robot.  The result should give the amount of time that a robot is driving toward its opponent.
Control - ???

How does one measure "control"?  This one is super-duper subjective.  Any thoughts?

A lot of the people here have ran Ra2 tournaments (Like Apex: Elite Series (https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/apex-elite-series/) heck).

For myself I'd suggest looking at the time one bot has been underneath or at the side/rear of the opponent. Providing a delay before giving the points to prevent stuff like turning oddly, etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 28, 2019, 05:22:24 PM
For Control, I'd say something like:

a) You gain Control points for pushing your opponent across the arena, especially if you push them into hazards.
b) You lose Control points for every X milliseconds that your wheels aren't touching the ground. So things like getting flipped, recoiling backwards from a big spinner hit, Mauler-dancing, or getting lifted by a Complete Control-style clampbot would lose you points.
c) You lose Control points for driving into hazards. That's obviously bad driving.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:24:38 PM
Getting the smaller weight classes feeling good is going to be my focus over the next week or so.  In the current build, we are using the same drive system that has worked okay for heavyweights.  It doesn’t work for beetleweights.  I have a new drive system in mind that should be super smooth and responsive for all weight classes.  I tested an early prototype a few months ago that showed promise.  I’m confident I can get it working.  It will just take a little time.

@tashic is on the scaling issues.

Also, we don’t have small batteries or ESCs yet.  I have been leaving those out when I build a robot in game.  They will come!  I promise!  My target date for these is the beginning of September, as that is when I need to explain to my students what an ESC is, and why you need them in your robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on May 28, 2019, 05:35:41 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:41:09 PM
*sheepish*

Thank you for the reminder about the RA2 tournaments.  I feel like a dunce. 🙂

Good suggestions regarding control.  They should be easy enough to implement.  Should a control score start at zero and be able to go negative?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:03:22 PM
Yes, it should be able to go into the negatives, but I would put a limit on how far into the negatives it can go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 06:06:04 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.

Yea, absolutely.
Given how small the BWs tend to be to build. I've found the grid lacks the support for these small sizes. Often rounding up to the nearest number. It results in it being really difficult imo to make detailed and accurate bots. This, on top of the lack of wheel & battery support makes building at the weightclass really awkward and overall lacking
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:12:32 PM
One thought is to do something like a sideways stacked bar graph that is constantly updated throughout the fight.  Image that there were 4 robots, "A", "B", "C", "D"

Damage: AABBBBBBBBBBBCCCDDDD
Control:  AAAAAAAAAAAABBCCCDDD
Aggression: AAAAAAAABBBBBCCCDDDD

In this case, B did the most damage, but A wins on control and aggression.

Too complicated?

The original "Robot Rumble" AirConsole game just had a pip for each robot.  Whoever's pip was on the top had the current highest score, and the pips would constantly swap throughout the fight.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:14:26 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.

Yea, absolutely.
Given how small the BWs tend to be to build. I've found the grid lacks the support for these small sizes. Often rounding up to the nearest number. It results in it being really difficult imo to make detailed and accurate bots. This, on top of the lack of wheel & battery support makes building at the weightclass really awkward and overall lacking
You are able to adjust the grid size on the left hand side.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 28, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
If you choose to judge controll by tge time wheels have touched the ground keep in mind that there are walkers also no wheels at all. Also bots like pussycat have wheels not touching the ground on purpose
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
If you choose to judge controll by tge time wheels have touched the ground keep in mind that there are walkers also no wheels at all. Also bots like pussycat have wheels not touching the ground on purpose

Perhaps a robot is "being controlled" if it is losing a driving battle:

The "controlling robot" is giving driving inputs in a direction, and the "controlled robot" is moving in that direction instead of the direction it is trying to move in.

"Driving Direction" = the direction the robot is facing * its "drive" signal
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:26:13 PM
Or even simpler: A robot gains control points by moving in the same or opposite direction it is facing, and loses points by moving in a direction perpendicular to the direction it is facing.

A stationary robot doesn't gain or lose control points.

This approach would favor driving at an enemy or away from an enemy, and would penalized getting shoved sideways.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on May 28, 2019, 06:29:28 PM
Idk what to feel about the in built JD system in game tbh
 I think I still prefer the one where people made it themself as on any other robot combat game before RR2. Also for aggression, is it basically tied with control, or will you take other factor into consideration, like the controlled bot trying to force itself against the opponent even if being controlled, or trying to use their weapon, like bringing down their saw into the opponent?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:33:09 PM
Idk what to feel about the in built JD system in game tbh
 I think I still prefer the one where people made it themself as on any other robot combat game before RR2. Also for aggression, is it basically tied with control, or will you take other factor into consideration, like the controlled bot trying to force itself against the opponent even if being controlled, or trying to use their weapon, like bringing down their saw into the opponent?

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "JD" stand for?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:33:50 PM
Judges decision
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:37:00 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
Judges decision

Ah!  Thanks!

I think we need a scoring system for 2 primary reasons:

1. It is a way to build tension and excitement as you see one robot pulling ahead of another.
2. In single player or AI vs AI games, it is needed to determine the outcome of non-KO fights.

For me, the best part of the original Robot Rumble was watching the pips move as someone went on a particularly long scoring run, upsetting the leader.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:40:17 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?

We are going to be making some massive breaking changes over the next few months...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:49:25 PM
Judges decision

Ah!  Thanks!

I think we need a scoring system for 2 primary reasons:

1. It is a way to build tension and excitement as you see one robot pulling ahead of another.
2. In single player or AI vs AI games, it is needed to determine the outcome of non-KO fights.

For me, the best part of the original Robot Rumble was watching the pips move as someone went on a particularly long scoring run, upsetting the leader.
I would 100% agree with you on that. It can make matches more competitive throughout, and if you don't agree with the decision that the Com made, you can always just ignore it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on May 28, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?
The current botm has RR2 as part of the Custom category.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 29, 2019, 02:51:00 AM
How would this count for meltibrainspinners tho?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 29, 2019, 05:19:11 AM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 29, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
That should definitely be something to add in the next build. I could see some cool stuff coming from that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 31, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
That should definitely be something to add in the next build. I could see some cool stuff coming from that.

I like it too.  I will put it on the Trello list.  We have a bunch of high priority stuff happening right now (new driving system, flippers), but we can probably squeeze in a button to disable the renderers for everything except the robot in the workshop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:14:11 PM
A quick teaser for the next build:

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:17:46 PM
 Here’s Phönix with the new belt drive system:

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:22:48 PM
Oh yeah.  Spinner high speed blur is now a thing too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on July 05, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
Neat. Will you be able to customize the lenght of the belt or is it preset like in DSL?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Neat. Will you be able to customize the lenght of the belt or is it preset like in DSL?

Good question.  See the red, green, and blue control handles?  You can pull the secondary pulley around and it will stretch the belt automatically to adapt to the new position. 

The pulley workflow goes as follows:
1. Place a motor.
2. Attach a pulley to the shaft of the motor.
3. Stretch out a second pulley from the first pulley.
4. Attach something to the shaft of the second pulley.
5. Test the motor/pulley system and adjust the pulley size ratio as necessary for the appropriate torque/speed.

With this system you should be able to create either a high speed spinner or a high torque lifting arm.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 05, 2019, 01:18:12 PM
Question:
How will belts take damage?  Ideally, the belt falls off and the attached components just sit there unpowered.
Otherwise, I'm really hyped for this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
That should be nice and simple.  Just need to come up with a convincing visual for a thrown or snapped belt.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 01:53:00 PM
Not gonna lie, I was really hoping for some sort of belt drive and you guys have more than delivered once again! Cannot wait for the next build!

Out of curiosity - can the pulley system be 'doubled up' to potentially create two shafts powered by one motor? (For example, two wheels powered by the one motor)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 02:04:53 PM
I believe so, but we would need to check with @tashic.  I’m not in front of the computer now, but I can try when I get home.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 05, 2019, 02:06:42 PM
Nice! A new build incoming! That belt drive should make it a lot easier to build spinners than it currently is. Any other changes we can look forward to?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 02:35:35 PM
Nice! A new build incoming! That belt drive should make it a lot easier to build spinners than it currently is. Any other changes we can look forward to?

1. Driving.  Everything has to drive well and believably, from beetleweights to lightweights, to heavyweights.  Botlab and premade robots.  Its been a challenge to get everything working well across all of the weight ranges, particularly with spinners that aren’t quite balanced that throw robots into a wobble.  My first priority on this build is to clean everything up and make everything drive well.

2. Now that the spinner blur works, I can finally get to a proper kinetic energy-based damage system that doesn’t rely on the existing physics system.  It was a big challenge to compute the volume of revolution for a user-defined weapon, but it should make it possible for you do use something like the Spinner Damage Excel spreadsheet http://www.brjackets.com/robotics/files/spinner%20spreadsheet.xls (http://www.brjackets.com/robotics/files/spinner%20spreadsheet.xls) to compute weapon energy for use in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 03:53:01 PM
Not gonna lie, I was really hoping for some sort of belt drive and you guys have more than delivered once again! Cannot wait for the next build!

Out of curiosity - can the pulley system be 'doubled up' to potentially create two shafts powered by one motor? (For example, two wheels powered by the one motor)

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 04:11:10 PM

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?


Not quite... I was thinking more along the lines of how a lot of four wheel drive robots work, with two motors connected to two sets of belt systems, in turn powering four wheels in parallels of two. (I could draw up a quick diagram if that helps??)

I love seeing what you did there though! It's gonna be perfect for drum spinners and dual vertical spinners!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 04:14:45 PM

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?


Not quite... I was thinking more along the lines of how a lot of four wheel drive robots work, with two motors connected to two sets of belt systems, in turn powering four wheels in parallels of two. (I could draw up a quick diagram if that helps??)

I love seeing what you did there though! It's gonna be perfect for drum spinners and dual vertical spinners!

Gotcha!  Here's the BattleKits Middle Weight configuration:

http://www.battlekits.com (http://www.battlekits.com)

I just tried it, and the system isn't set up to do that yet, but @tashic tells me that it is on his list of things to make work.

In this version, if a pulley is attached, it can be the only thing attached to a motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
Yes! Exactly like those! (Apologies - work has been a stress fest this week; my mind is barely hanging on at this point haha!)

Ah I see no problem! I was only asking out of curiosity haha! Still living for what you've displayed though, your entire team and you are doing an AMAZING job!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 05, 2019, 05:45:57 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 05:48:01 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 09:31:03 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 09:39:05 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 06:01:05 AM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
yeah, as current motors are not Hori spinner friendly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 11:27:57 AM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
yeah, as current motors are not Hori spinner friendly

Agreed.  I try to put together a shorter motor or two this week.  Anyone have any preference for weapon motors?  I am looking at something Etek-compatible currently.  At a minimum I should be able to come up with a mock-up of the right dimensions, weight, and motor characteristics.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 11:36:19 AM
Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 06, 2019, 11:46:53 AM
Anyone have any preference for weapon motors?  I am looking at something Etek-compatible currently.  At a minimum I should be able to come up with a mock-up of the right dimensions, weight, and motor characteristics.
Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?

Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
IIRC, they're about the same diameter as an Etek, but slightly thinner. Storm 2 used LEMs as drive motors at one point, but they're heavy enough that you'd need WhammetNuht's system of "one motor powering two/three wheels" for them to be practical in an RR2 rammer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 11:51:35 AM
Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
IIRC, they're about the same diameter as an Etek, but slightly thinner. Storm 2 used LEMs as drive motors at one point, but they're heavy enough that you'd need WhammetNuht's system of "one motor powering two/three wheels" for them to be practical in an RR2 rammer.
Just looked up lems. I thought they were actually huge, but i see they have variety. Nice
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 12:30:00 PM

Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?


Will do.

You are correct about the reason for not putting specs in the description.  Up until now I have been fudging numbers all over the place to get everything to work.  Now that the spinner blur is functional, it is possible to simulate real-life speeds.  A motor spins a bar at 3000 RPM?  No problem.  The question now becomes which specs to include.  Do we got full on simulation, with Kv values, or do we just do something simple like power at rated voltage?  What about torque?  Weapon tip speed at full spin-up?  Kinetic energy?

Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 06, 2019, 01:50:16 PM

Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?


Will do.

You are correct about the reason for not putting specs in the description.  Up until now I have been fudging numbers all over the place to get everything to work.  Now that the spinner blur is functional, it is possible to simulate real-life speeds.  A motor spins a bar at 3000 RPM?  No problem.  The question now becomes which specs to include.  Do we got full on simulation, with Kv values, or do we just do something simple like power at rated voltage?  What about torque?  Weapon tip speed at full spin-up?  Kinetic energy?

Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?

That’s on my list for Monday.  I was thinking of adding a “wheel” tag to wheels so that it knows to not consider a wheel a weapon if the wheel is properly attached to the motor or pulley.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 02:16:35 PM
Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?

That’s on my list for Monday.  I was thinking of adding a “wheel” tag to wheels so that it knows to not consider a wheel a weapon if the wheel is properly attached to the motor or pulley.

How about this?  :smile:

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 07:14:56 PM
Hey guys.  Another free public alpha is coming out by the beginning of next week.  For this build:

1. Massive spinner update.
2. Pulleys.
3. Flippers.

We have reworked physics so that everything is energy-based.  As shown in the GIF above, you can get a handy realtime readout of your spinner’s energy in the test cage.  This should be handy if you are using the game to prototype designs for your real-life robots.  My plan is to use energy for damage too, but I’m not sure if that will be ready for this build.

Not shown in the GIF: The theoretical maximum kinetic energy for a spinner will be displayed too, if you want to design a tournament with energy limits.  It is also handy to see how much your design is losing to friction.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on July 09, 2019, 07:32:38 PM
I'm insanely hyped for this!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:07:08 AM
This game is so cool! It is like RA3, but every mistake has been fixed. (those were a lot of mistakes)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 10, 2019, 09:07:53 AM
Hey guys.  Another free public alpha is coming out by the beginning of next week.  For this build:

1. Massive spinner update.
2. Pulleys.
3. Flippers.

We have reworked physics so that everything is energy-based.  As shown in the GIF above, you can get a handy realtime readout of your spinner’s energy in the test cage.  This should be handy if you are using the game to prototype designs for your real-life robots.  My plan is to use energy for damage too, but I’m not sure if that will be ready for this build.

Not shown in the GIF: The theoretical maximum kinetic energy for a spinner will be displayed too, if you want to design a tournament with energy limits.  It is also handy to see how much your design is losing to friction.
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:10:28 AM
(http://Insert Attachment0)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:11:41 AM
Ok, I'm not very good at posting images
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:22:35 AM
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff

I'll do my best. 

Drive: Reworking spinners required reworking drive as well.  Unity physics doesn't like it when you throw big heavy masses around at anything more than a few hundred RPM.  Spinners can now go 8,000+ RPM, so I had to adjust the dynamics so that Unity stays happy.  I didn't have to go completely back to the drawing board with drive, but drive required a TON of tweaks.  Hopefully it is pretty close to where it needs to be.

Damage: I haven't addressed damage yet.  I'm hoping to do that over the next few days.  My goal this fall is to completely rethink how damage is done, moving away from hit points to a more realistic system of ripping, puncturing, and breaking.  If you tap a motor with a high energy spinner, that motor should break.  The idea is that you protect your motors with armor that someone needs to break off / puncture to get to the sensitive bits inside.

Update: I'm working on spinner "bite" right now.  The idea is that if you make something that spins too fast and/or come at an opponent too slowly, the spinner won't get any bite, and it will just bounce of the opponent instead without releasing much kinetic energy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
Ok, I'm not very good at posting images

No worries!  I just figured it out recently too.  You just need to hit "(Insert Attachment 0)" to add the attachment inside of the post.  I think you can only do it on the original post though.  I haven't figured out how to move the image to the body of the post after the fact.

Nice mockup!  We don't have a gearing system built yet, but you might want to use chain drive once the update comes out!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:30:01 AM
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff

I'll do my best. 

Drive: Reworking spinners required reworking drive as well.  Unity physics doesn't like it when you throw big heavy masses around at anything more than a few hundred RPM.  Spinners can now go 8,000+ RPM, so I had to adjust the dynamics so that Unity stays happy.  I didn't have to go completely back to the drawing board with drive, but drive required a TON of tweaks.  Hopefully it is pretty close to where it needs to be.

Damage: I haven't addressed damage yet.  I'm hoping to do that over the next few days.  My goal this fall is to completely rethink how damage is done, moving away from hit points to a more realistic system of ripping, puncturing, and breaking.  If you tap a motor with a high energy spinner, that motor should break.  The idea is that you protect your motors with armor that someone needs to break off / puncture to get to the sensitive bits inside.

Update: I'm working on spinner "bite" right now.  The idea is that if you make something that spins too fast and/or come at an opponent too slowly, the spinner won't get any bite, and it will just bounce of the opponent instead without releasing much kinetic energy.
Well... now I know, what I will do the next few weeks :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:31:06 AM
This game is so cool! It is like RA3, but every mistake has been fixed. (those were a lot of mistakes)

Not every mistake!

We still need to get rid of component clipping (i.e. make sure you can't place motors inside of other motors).  Anything else?

Plus, I would like to say that our physics is a touch more involved. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 10, 2019, 02:48:08 PM
I stopped following this for a short while, but this new update sounds super interesting. I'm looking forward to playtesting it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 11, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Glancing blows are now a thing for spinners.  To deliver blows with maximum force you need to position yourself to give your bar maximum bite.  Upward vertical spinners should behave very differently from downward spinners.  If your spinner is out of balance, it will wobble, and you will see that it won't be able to get up to as high RPM in the test cage telemetry screen.

If I get around to it, I'm thinking of building a spinner "bite" analyzer that will reward good spinner design.  Not there yet.  At the moment, an 8-sided drum, a 1-toothed drum, and a symmetrical bar all have the same bite.  Maybe that's good enough.  Dunno.

Here's a screenshot showing the difference between a glancing blow and a direct hit.  All of these blows were delivered with a weapon spinning at around 990 RPM.

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 12, 2019, 07:04:26 AM
This game keeps getting better with every day
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 12, 2019, 04:05:36 PM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 03:14:39 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on July 13, 2019, 05:54:52 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 13, 2019, 07:39:18 AM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Ah so deep six clones are gonna be a hassle to make
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 13, 2019, 08:01:45 AM
I noticed you’ve included flippers in the next build. Out of interest -  is the same damage physics rules that’s been built for the spinners going to apply to flippers? (E.g, the kinetic force from both being launched and hitting the ground at greater speeds = more damage?). I feel like that’s something which RA2 was definitely missing, hence why the only real competitive ‘flippers’ where the pop-ups.

Cannot wait for the new build!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 08:56:16 AM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Ah so deep six clones are gonna be a hassle to make

Should be totally doable!  I haven't tried yet though.

I was just referring to the fact that it will be hard/impossible to make a 1 meter diameter spinner go 8000 RPM.  All of this depends on tweaking of the air drag coefficients on my end. I'm struggling to find real-world data to calibrate my numbers.

Here's a 0.45 meter radius spinner that gets close to 1600 RPM with a 2.4:1 pulley gear ratio:

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:02:04 AM
I noticed you’ve included flippers in the next build. Out of interest -  is the same damage physics rules that’s been built for the spinners going to apply to flippers? (E.g, the kinetic force from both being launched and hitting the ground at greater speeds = more damage?). I feel like that’s something which RA2 was definitely missing, hence why the only real competitive ‘flippers’ where the pop-ups.

Cannot wait for the new build!!!

I haven't made any changes to damage in this build.  Everything is computed just as before, but driving and spinning things have different masses and speeds, so old robots won't behave the same.

To be honest, I haven't begun to do any flipper torque, speed, or energy calculations, so what you see for flippers is going to be pretty rough.  Flippers flip, and that is about all you can say about them at this point.

Damage is a whole 'nuther ballgame.  I want to get movement, speeds, energies, and forces working correctly before trying to tackle the visuals and mechanics of damage.  I would LOVE to get rid of hit points entirely.  It is going to take some serious work though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 09:14:47 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
What I mean is, that it would be cool to say: This spinner is not allowed to spin faster than 2000 rpm. I just noticed, that this will be possible to do by changing the pulley gear ratio.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:17:33 AM
CALLING ALL ENGINEERS!

I'm looking for data on the following:

1. Energy required to puncture different thicknesses of common armor materials: UHMW, Polycarbonate, 6061-T6 aluminum, mild steel, hardened steel, titanium.  Am I missing any?  We are looking to cover beetleweights, featherweights, lightweights, and heavyweights.

2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

If you have access to equipment to do some testing, or know of good resources for the above, please post them here!

PS - Do we have any Robot Wars/Robogames/Battlebots competitors in the crowd?  It would be nice to get some real-world quantitative and qualitative data from the heavier weight classes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:21:25 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
What I mean is, that it would be cool to say: This spinner is not allowed to spin faster than 2000 rpm. I just noticed, that this will be possible to do by changing the pulley gear ratio.

Absolutely!  Gearing down weapons is almost mandatory for a few reasons.  First, physics tends to get a little unstable at ultra-high RPM.  Second, a super-fast spinner gets very little bite.

I'm trying to get things to real-world speeds.  We will need something like an 8" diameter Motenergy 0708 motor.  Not sure about the specs on the custom motor that Carbide used...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 09:28:28 AM
CALLING ALL ENGINEERS!

I'm looking for data on the following:

1. Energy required to puncture different thicknesses of common armor materials: UHMW, Polycarbonate, 6061-T6 aluminum, mild steel, hardened steel, titanium.  Am I missing any?  We are looking to cover beetleweights, featherweights, lightweights, and heavyweights.

2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

If you have access to equipment to do some testing, or know of good resources for the above, please post them here!

PS - Do we have any Robot Wars/Robogames/Battlebots competitors in the crowd?  It would be nice to get some real-world quantitative and qualitative data from the heavier weight classes.
Sorry, I have no Idea, but I thought, that you were doing some stuff with the TR2 team and team Shock. Maybe they can help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 13, 2019, 10:16:05 AM
Somebody (his gtm name) is the guy who made HUGE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 11:02:10 AM
Somebody (his gtm name) is the guy who made HUGE

Nice!  I’ve been looking at Huge’s use of plastic and trying to wrap my head around how to do that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on July 13, 2019, 03:16:22 PM
2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

not sure if this is what you're looking for but its got a lot of useful info on it and is really easy to use
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

not sure if this is what you're looking for but its got a lot of useful info on it and is really easy to use
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Nice!  I’ve been using this the past few days to check the numbers in-game.  The big thing that is missing here is air drag.  That’s why I was wondering if anyone has real performance data that we could use for improving the model.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 15, 2019, 03:24:43 PM
Woohoo!  We just got permission to put Motenergy motors in the game!

Coming soon: the Motenergy 0708!

Now people can build proper Last Rites replicas!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 16, 2019, 06:29:57 AM
Great!!! :claping :claping :claping will it already be in the upcoming build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 16, 2019, 07:16:29 AM
Great!!! :claping :claping :claping will it already be in the upcoming build?

Hopefully.  If not the actual 3D model, at least a cylinder of the appropriate dimensions that you can hook up and power stuff.  We are working on the full 3D model now, but the full visual representation might need to wait until the next build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 16, 2019, 07:41:45 AM
Great!!! :claping :claping :claping will it already be in the upcoming build?

Hopefully.  If not the actual 3D model, at least a cylinder of the appropriate dimensions that you can hook up and power stuff.  We are working on the full 3D model now, but the full visual representation might need to wait until the next build.
Oh, cool! I guess just a flat cylinder would be ok, too. Will the new House robot, you showed off be in the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 16, 2019, 09:13:19 AM
Great!!! :claping :claping :claping will it already be in the upcoming build?

Hopefully.  If not the actual 3D model, at least a cylinder of the appropriate dimensions that you can hook up and power stuff.  We are working on the full 3D model now, but the full visual representation might need to wait until the next build.
Oh, cool! I guess just a flat cylinder would be ok, too. Will the new House robot, you showed off be in the game?

Faust is still in the works and hasn’t been tested yet, so it won’t make it into the game for this build.  Soon though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 16, 2019, 04:37:21 PM
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Hot off the griddle!

This one is going to have some serious power.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on July 16, 2019, 11:42:01 PM
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fr tho what you guys are doing is insane. great work on everything so far and I can't wait to see the final product :claping
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 17, 2019, 06:25:56 AM
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Hot off the griddle!

This one is going to have some serious power.
That looks very detailed :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 17, 2019, 07:07:12 AM
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Hot off the griddle!

This one is going to have some serious power.

Oh, that's a thing of beauty. Cant wait to bolt it into Spitfire and get those huge hits :evilsmile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 17, 2019, 07:38:01 AM
I'm pretty sure, that there will be countless Tombstone and Carbide replicas soon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on July 17, 2019, 07:44:13 AM
well guess next build i'll be making my Deep 6 ripoff E-Tek powered to yeet things into the roof
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 17, 2019, 12:43:25 PM
Can wait for new update, so i can break it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 18, 2019, 09:24:47 AM
Can wait for new update, so i can break it

Absolutely!

PS, I fully expect that your version is going to be much cooler looking than mine.  No pressure.

Edit: The above comment was for Mystic2000.

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 19, 2019, 02:12:31 AM
407000 joules :eek: ?! That bot is very broken
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on July 19, 2019, 11:17:35 AM
400KJ ? Ray Billings would be proud lmao, i dread to imagine how horribly slow spinup must be

i'll try to make it not look too bad lol
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 19, 2019, 12:57:53 PM
400KJ ? Ray Billings would be proud lmao, i dread to imagine how horribly slow spinup must be

i'll try to make it not look too bad lol

Spinup is a way too fast right now.  I'm hoping to speak with Ray about real performance numbers.

THE NEW BUILD IS OUT!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on July 19, 2019, 01:04:51 PM
i know Tombstone's theorical max is around 100KJ, so that's a base to have for what would be the reasonable max energy you can reach
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 19, 2019, 02:30:31 PM
i know Tombstone's theorical max is around 100KJ, so that's a base to have for what would be the reasonable max energy you can reach

I’m waiting to hear back from Ray.  He did express an interest.  Air drag is computed based on the dimensions and geometry of the spinner that you build, so I am hoping to have get the dimensions to go along with the RPM and energy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 19, 2019, 03:48:37 PM
Liking the new build. Flippers fall off still tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 19, 2019, 03:50:37 PM
Liking the new build. Flippers fall off still tho

Yeah.  Damage needs a LOT of work still.

The goal is to get everything using armor plates that can be damaged/broken off.  @tashic is working on that now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FlamesOfIce on July 19, 2019, 05:07:27 PM
Love the build! Bubblegum seems to spasm at the beginning of every match however. It spins whilst seemingly hitting the floor and then just explodes. Any ideas why?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 19, 2019, 05:22:30 PM
Love the build! Bubblegum seems to spasm at the beginning of every match however. It spins whilst seemingly hitting the floor and then just explodes. Any ideas why?

I think we need to tune down the spinner collision response.  Bubblegum carries a TON of kinetic energy and angular momentum in the spinner.  I think we can probably fix the problem with some tweaking, but it will take work.  For this build I was mostly focused on the collision response for BotLab robots.  The premade robots like Bubblegum all get individual tweaking, since they were never made with the BotLab to begin with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 20, 2019, 01:45:43 AM
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Just started and already like it.  First issue though is for some reason the game likes to "censor" spinning weapons.
Second and unrelated issue.  If nothing is mounted to a motor and you go to the test Lab, you get a couple dozen air miles.

Otherwise, I like what you're doing with the music and the botlab.  Things are looking nice.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 20, 2019, 04:05:58 AM
Great build  :mrgreen: .I like, what you have done to the botlab! But I have some issues with the spinners. In the test area it always sais, that the mass of the weapon is 5 kg. I also wanted to hit the toggle DB and it brought me back to the menu.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 07:16:36 AM
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Just started and already like it.  First issue though is for some reason the game likes to "censor" spinning weapons.

Uh oh.  That looks like a problem with the shader that I'm not seeing on my end that might be hardware related.  What graphics card are you using?

Second and unrelated issue.  If nothing is mounted to a motor and you go to the test Lab, you get a couple dozen air miles.

That is fantastic!  We'll definitely take a look.

Otherwise, I like what you're doing with the music and the botlab.  Things are looking nice.

Thank you!  Callum's been hard at work making sounds and music for all everything.  There is a lot to do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 07:18:18 AM
Great build  :mrgreen: .I like, what you have done to the botlab! But I have some issues with the spinners. In the test area it always sais, that the mass of the weapon is 5 kg. I also wanted to hit the toggle DB and it brought me back to the menu.

Drat.  I thought I fixed the problem with the weapon data not updating.  If you go all the way back to the Main Screen, then enter the BotLab again, it should update.

I'll take a look at it when I can.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 20, 2019, 07:34:36 AM
Okay a new issue list:
The Weapon is untinted in the test lab and in a fight,
The Blur effect is not great
Weight in the bot description seems to not fit the weight in the botlab
Flippers fall off too easily imo
About the flippers. Seems like the motors are made out of UV test material (id0). I have bumped that to Alu (id3 is alu iirc) and changed the thinckness to 1.00000000000000004, and i think it might have fixed the flipper falling off issue. Will test it further tho
EDIT: never mind, this did not seemed to fix the issue


I also have the shader issues with a bot, Running on HD7950 with latest drivers

Weapon data not updating also happens with one of my bots, but in fights and test lab
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 20, 2019, 09:52:47 AM
The flippers work very well! I didn't have any issues so far.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on July 20, 2019, 10:03:36 AM
The flippers work very well! I didn't have any issues so far.
same i dont know why people are complaining
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 10:24:48 AM
The flippers work very well! I didn't have any issues so far.
same i dont know why people are complaining

Maybe a problem just with older robots?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 20, 2019, 10:28:12 AM
(Insert Attachment 0)

My robot keeps dancing on it's back :laughing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 10:43:34 AM
(Insert Attachment 0)

My robot keeps dancing on it's back :laughing

Nice.  Is it possible to reduce the speed with a pulley to fix the problem?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on July 20, 2019, 10:48:43 AM
haven't figured out yet how to make a hard hitting spinner yet lol, also flippers seem to clip into other robots on firing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 20, 2019, 11:25:47 AM
The flippers work very well! I didn't have any issues so far.
same i dont know why people are complaining

Maybe a problem just with older robots?

Yeah about that...
https://youtu.be/fRubn5mm8Rk
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 20, 2019, 11:32:05 AM
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Just started and already like it.  First issue though is for some reason the game likes to "censor" spinning weapons.

Uh oh.  That looks like a problem with the shader that I'm not seeing on my end that might be hardware related.  What graphics card are you using?
Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti

I think that's the graphics card...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 20, 2019, 11:43:40 AM
I'm currently on vacation, so I have to wait until next Friday. :rage Looks awesome tho! Two Quick questions; is there a torque motor? And when will there be a Bot exchange on GTM, like RA2 has?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 12:39:57 PM
kix,

I see what you mean.  We are rethinking damage entirely over the next few months.  I need to do some thinking about the shear strength of the hinge’s axle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 12:59:22 PM
I'm currently on vacation, so I have to wait until next Friday. :rage Looks awesome tho! Two Quick questions; is there a torque motor? And when will there be a Bot exchange on GTM, like RA2 has?

You can stick a spinning object directly on a motor, but most of the time you are going to want to use a pulley or chain drive to reduce the speed and increase the torque.  By adjusting the gear ratio, you can get whatever torque you need, at the expense of speed.

Do we have a RR2Bot exchange yet?  It would be great!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 20, 2019, 01:04:35 PM
haven't figured out yet how to make a hard hitting spinner yet lol, also flippers seem to clip into other robots on firing

I still have some work to do on the amount of kickback that occurs when a spinner hits.  It is just a quick and dirty impulse in this build.  For the next build it should be proportional to the angular momentum of the spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on July 20, 2019, 01:26:04 PM
just tried chain drive and the whole bot shot off into space lmao. i'll try and remake the bug while recording next time

also the hints tab overlays itself indefinitely if you keep clicking on it which just causes the screen to go totally black
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 20, 2019, 02:39:41 PM
Looking at Kix's vid, I love the new lighting effects in the arena, but are the turntables in the menu screens supposed to spin that fast? I'm sure they were a lot slower in the previous builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 20, 2019, 05:36:12 PM
Okay, so apparently, if i place a component that is a "flipper" component on a spin motor, the bot bounces like crazy

Also unlimited hinge hp when? Im not feeling safe to host it as flippers tend to fall off after 10 ish-hits

Cant mute audio too
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: calgoblin on July 21, 2019, 04:09:30 AM
Looking at Kix's vid, I love the new lighting effects in the arena, but are the turntables in the menu screens supposed to spin that fast? I'm sure they were a lot slower in the previous builds.

Yeah these need tweaking... The rotation is currently linked to framerate, so high FPS means super speed turntables! Great way to brag about the power of your PC ;)

Also unlimited hinge hp when? Im not feeling safe to host it as flippers tend to fall off after 10 ish-hits

Cant mute audio too

I'll let Chris answer on the timeframe, but all parts need a lot of balancing and tweaking still.

What audio are you unable to mute?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 21, 2019, 05:52:08 AM
Also unlimited hinge hp when? Im not feeling safe to host it as flippers tend to fall off after 10 ish-hits

Cant mute audio too

I'll let Chris answer on the timeframe, but all parts need a lot of balancing and tweaking still.

What audio are you unable to mute?
I know that stuff needs to be balanced, but currently, hosting is a no-go for flippers

Music audio. It can be muted, but after entering a fight/botlab, it turns on
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 21, 2019, 07:15:36 AM
I can’t promise anything extravagant at this point.  What do you think about just disabling the ability of flippers to break off?  They should still be able to propagate damage inward to the chassis.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 21, 2019, 08:41:15 AM
I can’t promise anything extravagant at this point.  What do you think about just disabling the ability of flippers to break off?  They should still be able to propagate damage inward to the chassis.

I have something in the works for the moment.  I'll try to get it up today or tomorrow.

Also, Team HUGE was gracious enough to share some numbers to calibrate spinner air drag.  Air drag should be more realistic now for heavyweights, though I'm not sure about drum spinner air drag yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 21, 2019, 03:12:19 PM
I can’t promise anything extravagant at this point.  What do you think about just disabling the ability of flippers to break off?  They should still be able to propagate damage inward to the chassis.
Tbh, as a temp solution it would be great
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 21, 2019, 04:55:03 PM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)

Also materials like steel and aluminium have a blue-ish tint
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 21, 2019, 05:32:04 PM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)

Also materials like steel and aluminium have a blue-ish tint

Gotcha.  Everyone is using nVidia graphics cards?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 21, 2019, 05:46:53 PM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)
I haven't once used those materials, though...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on July 21, 2019, 06:01:33 PM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)

Also materials like steel and aluminium have a blue-ish tint
BTW, for the poly glitch, since the devs are not in the OW server and Arcane posted the pic there only, here it is:
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Edit: Also, nice to see Somebody helping with the development of this game too (he was once a GTM member before retiring for RL robotics, and the captain of Team HUGE)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 21, 2019, 06:36:02 PM
I wonder if the glow is caused by the post processing stack...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 21, 2019, 09:24:44 PM
Using AMD here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 22, 2019, 06:12:17 AM
(Insert Attachment 0)

My robot keeps dancing on it's back :laughing
I think I know, why this happens. Always when you attatch an axe or a lifter to a Motor with limited rotation, the game thinks it's spinning 360 degree and hits the ground
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 22, 2019, 06:19:43 AM
This might be a bit early, but here are two things, I would like to see in the future:

A servo motor for heavyweights. It would be really useful, to build lifters and clamps.

A different way, to attach belts or chains. It would be cool, to select a Motor, and an object. The two things will be connected. That way you could make a weapon, using two motors. You could also make four wheel drive with just two motors
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 22, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
I'm going to have to wait on getting a fix out for a few more days.  I'm on vacation at the moment, and the place we are staying doesn't have wifi.  It turns out I don't have enough cell data to upload the fixes.

My priority for this fix is to make sure that people can run tournaments.  Here's what I have in mind:
1. Make it impossible to break things off other than spinners.
2. Otherwise, how does the damage system feel for now?  It is not at all physically based, but it needs to function well enough for tournaments.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on July 22, 2019, 09:58:37 AM
A servo motor for heavyweights. It would be really useful, to build lifters and clamps.

It's worth pointing out that this does not exist in reality. Every robot you see is running large gearboxes, geartrains, or chain/belt drives to gear down continuous rotation motors enough to be effective drive, or effective at lifting an opponent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 22, 2019, 10:12:57 AM
A servo motor for heavyweights. It would be really useful, to build lifters and clamps.

It's worth pointing out that this does not exist in reality. Every robot you see is running large gearboxes, geartrains, or chain/belt drives to gear down continuous rotation motors enough to be effective drive, or effective at lifting an opponent.
This as much as i know
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 22, 2019, 11:12:04 AM
It's worth pointing out that this does not exist in reality. Every robot you see is running large gearboxes, geartrains, or chain/belt drives to gear down continuous rotation motors enough to be effective drive, or effective at lifting an opponent.

Not gonna lie, I was thinking that a cool addition to the game could be gearboxes. Similar to how the Pulleys & Chains currently work, but its a standard box with an axel that can be attached to motors to give them a higher ratio for torque and speed control, and making them flatter and more space conscious than the pulleys.

I must admit though, I absolutely LOVING the current pulley and chain systems! I think they are an amazing aspect that just puts the game even further over any other currently on offer.
The flipper pneumatics are fun aswell, but I do have to agree in regards to the flippers easily breaking. Otherwise - my flipper boys can finally work properly - yay!!

One other bug I've noticed on my game (I haven't seen it mentioned on the thread yet so apologies if it's been bought up elsewhere) but certain 'custom' components seem to go either completely black, gain a huge black outline around them, or both. I'm also experiencing the glitch where some components are getting the white boxes around them in the arena, have a blue tinge to them and look very dull, flat and matte.

Speaking of the arena though, I think what you've done with the lighting effects and introduction before fights is PERFECTION. I would have loved to have somehow incorporated elements like those into my RA2 arenas but the game was never advanced enough to do it properly so this aspect really excites me! (It's the little things lol)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 22, 2019, 01:16:54 PM
Tbh id like to have white steel part, but currently best i can go is, Blueish-gray
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 22, 2019, 01:20:44 PM
 If you put green and blue at 0.8, it will make the steel and aluminium gray instead of that annoying light blue color.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: calgoblin on July 22, 2019, 01:53:30 PM
Music audio. It can be muted, but after entering a fight/botlab, it turns on

Noted cheers I'll take a look at that! I know the botlab trigger is a bit keen currently...

Speaking of the arena though, I think what you've done with the lighting effects and introduction before fights is PERFECTION. I would have loved to have somehow incorporated elements like those into my RA2 arenas but the game was never advanced enough to do it properly so this aspect really excites me! (It's the little things lol)

Glad you like! It may be little but it adds a bit of build up to each fight. I want to give each arena a unique intro, so ideas are welcome!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 23, 2019, 12:15:19 AM
I have a Question: Is the announcer in the Bugglebots arena actually Bob ?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 23, 2019, 01:49:51 PM
Epic speeds here
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/441273974274392065/603262035211452416/unknown.png?width=401&height=232)
Also seems that if i spin the weapon downwards, it will act like its spinning upwards which is weird. Will post a vid when i have time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: calgoblin on July 23, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
I have a Question: Is the announcer in the Bugglebots arena actually Bob ?

I don't think so no. I'm not sure who they got to do the voice, but our version of the Bugglebots arena has the same audio as the real one which is pretty cool!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 23, 2019, 08:54:14 PM
Epic speeds here
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/441273974274392065/603262035211452416/unknown.png?width=401&height=232)
Also seems that if i spin the weapon downwards, it will act like its spinning upwards which is weird. Will post a vid when i have time

I believe that might be the “wagon wheel effect” that occurs when the wheel is rotating faster than the screen refresh rate.  That’s why I made the blur cylinder.  The original mesh should fade out while the blur cylinder fades in, but I’m having trouble getting the shader to work correctly.  I haven’t forgotten about it, its just that I didn’t want the visuals to hold up the mechanics of how the blur cylinder works.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 23, 2019, 10:14:14 PM
Epic speeds here
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/441273974274392065/603262035211452416/unknown.png?width=401&height=232)
Also seems that if i spin the weapon downwards, it will act like its spinning upwards which is weird. Will post a vid when i have time

Wait a sec.  Were you referring to the impulse being in the wrong direction?  That shouldn’t happen.  If so, its a bug.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 23, 2019, 10:44:52 PM
Epic speeds here
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/441273974274392065/603262035211452416/unknown.png?width=401&height=232)

Also, does anyone have featherweight spinner data that I can use to calibrate the air drag model for featherweight spinners?

Same question for beetleweights.  Does anyone have real life beetleweight spinner data?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 24, 2019, 07:21:55 AM
Also, does anyone have featherweight spinner data that I can use to calibrate the air drag model for featherweight spinners?

Same question for beetleweights.  Does anyone have real life beetleweight spinner data?

If you don't mind me suggesting, one good place to go for this would be the Fighting Robot Association (FRA) Forums. If you're a UK/European roboteer it's basically where you need to go to stay in the loop of anything and everything.

Apologies if you have already tried this place/had it suggested, but I am certain there would be some good, generous roboteers on there who would be able to help you out!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 24, 2019, 07:42:52 AM
I built a hammer - bot. In the test Arena it's fine, but in battle it's bouncing all over the place.
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 09:37:41 AM
I built a hammer - bot. In the test Arena it's fine, but in battle it's bouncing all over the place.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Weird.  It should behave the same.   Does it start bouncing immediately, or after you fire the weapon?  Also, what kind of motor are you using to drive the weapon?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 09:45:32 AM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)

Also materials like steel and aluminium have a blue-ish tint

I don't know why it took me this long to ask, but:

Is the problem with the weird white glow around UHMW and polycarbonate a new problem with the July 19th build, or has it existed all along? 

In the July 19th build, I made very few changes that would have affected how materials are displayed.  If it is new problem, that is great because I have a pretty good idea of where to look to fix the problem.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on July 24, 2019, 09:54:44 AM
Okay, so apparently, UHMW and/or Poly stuff breaks graphics. Thats why gulden gets that effect (and other people incl arcane and me)

Also materials like steel and aluminium have a blue-ish tint

I don't know why it took me this long to ask, but:

Is the problem with the weird white glow around UHMW and polycarbonate a new problem with the July 19th build, or has it existed all along? 

In the July 19th build, I made very few changes that would have affected how materials are displayed.  If it is new problem, that is great because I have a pretty good idea of where to look to fix the problem.

It's only a result of the new build
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 09:56:30 AM
I sucked it up and used the last of my cell phone data to upload an "unbreakable flipper" build on itch.io.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

RR2-Windows-23July2019-Alpha-Build.zip
RR2-Mac-23July2019-Alpha-Build.app.zip

Let me know if this does the trick!  If not, I apologize.  I'm out of cell phone data, and will need to wait for a few weeks until I return to civilization and high speed internet service.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 09:58:20 AM
It's only a result of the new build

That's great news!  It gives me a pretty good idea of where to look.  I have some bugs with this build that are manifesting differently on my laptop, but I think might have the same root cause and/or the same fix.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on July 24, 2019, 03:27:12 PM
how do u pan the botlab camera
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 24, 2019, 04:00:09 PM
You press down on the scroll button on your mouse
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 24, 2019, 04:37:36 PM
Once again love the new build.  It fixed the aforementioned glowing material glitch.

Anyway, I think I found the cause of the bouncing hammer bot glitch.
When a bot has a weapon is driven with an electric motor, the game spins the weapon, even when it's off. (invisibly or something).  The weapon hits the ground, and causes the robot to bounce.
Sauce:  I tried to make an electric Complete Control bot.  The upper arm didn't cause the bounce, but the lower one did.  Two test bots later and we reached the conclusion.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 24, 2019, 06:40:36 PM
Hey Guldenflame, could you post a picture of your Complete Control rep?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 24, 2019, 07:03:18 PM
Hey Guldenflame, could you post a picture of your Complete Control rep?
I scrapped it when I realized how the bounce glitch worked, so I quickly made a crappy recreate for ye.
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 07:29:10 PM
Once again love the new build.  It fixed the aforementioned glowing material glitch.

Anyway, I think I found the cause of the bouncing hammer bot glitch.
When a bot has a weapon is driven with an electric motor, the game spins the weapon, even when it's off. (invisibly or something).  The weapon hits the ground, and causes the robot to bounce.
Sauce:  I tried to make an electric Complete Control bot.  The upper arm didn't cause the bounce, but the lower one did.  Two test bots later and we reached the conclusion.

Drat!!!  I didn’t make any changes that would have affected the glowing material!  I hate the way Unity batches materials together!  So performant, yet so frustrating to get working...

You are spot on about the cause of the hammer bouncing.  The blur/collision cylinder should not be added to hammers, but for some reason it is, and I can’t seem to replicate the problem when I build stuff in the botlab.  Would you mind sending me a .RR2Bot file that has the problem?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 07:30:30 PM
how do u pan the botlab camera

On a laptop, hold down the shift key and use the trackpad to rotate the camera.  This one was huge for me.  Thanks @tashic!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 24, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
Once again love the new build.  It fixed the aforementioned glowing material glitch.

Anyway, I think I found the cause of the bouncing hammer bot glitch.
When a bot has a weapon is driven with an electric motor, the game spins the weapon, even when it's off. (invisibly or something).  The weapon hits the ground, and causes the robot to bounce.
Sauce:  I tried to make an electric Complete Control bot.  The upper arm didn't cause the bounce, but the lower one did.  Two test bots later and we reached the conclusion.

Drat!!!  I didn’t make any changes that would have affected the glowing material!  I hate the way Unity batches materials together!  So performant, yet so frustrating to get working...

You are spot on about the cause of the hammer bouncing.  The blur/collision cylinder should not be added to hammers, but for some reason it is, and I can’t seem to replicate the problem when I build stuff in the botlab.  Would you mind sending me a .RR2Bot file that has the problem?
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 24, 2019, 08:21:54 PM
Hey Guldenflame, could you post a picture of your Complete Control rep?
I scrapped it when I realized how the bounce glitch worked, so I quickly made a crappy recreate for ye.
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Tried making something similar on an older update using the hinged actuators, but it kept flippin itself. Yours low key looks nicer tho.  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 24, 2019, 09:57:32 PM
Once again love the new build.  It fixed the aforementioned glowing material glitch.

Anyway, I think I found the cause of the bouncing hammer bot glitch.
When a bot has a weapon is driven with an electric motor, the game spins the weapon, even when it's off. (invisibly or something).  The weapon hits the ground, and causes the robot to bounce.
Sauce:  I tried to make an electric Complete Control bot.  The upper arm didn't cause the bounce, but the lower one did.  Two test bots later and we reached the conclusion.

Drat!!!  I didn’t make any changes that would have affected the glowing material!  I hate the way Unity batches materials together!  So performant, yet so frustrating to get working...

You are spot on about the cause of the hammer bouncing.  The blur/collision cylinder should not be added to hammers, but for some reason it is, and I can’t seem to replicate the problem when I build stuff in the botlab.  Would you mind sending me a .RR2Bot file that has the problem?
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Awesome!  I’ll take a look...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 25, 2019, 08:10:39 AM
I built a hammer - bot. In the test Arena it's fine, but in battle it's bouncing all over the place.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Weird.  It should behave the same.   Does it start bouncing immediately, or after you fire the weapon?  Also, what kind of motor are you using to drive the weapon?
I am using a rack and pinion burst piston and it starts bouncing, before the fight even starts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 25, 2019, 08:52:48 AM
Bouncing issues with motored lifters
https://youtu.be/na5LcXNrBdg
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: calgoblin on July 25, 2019, 01:07:17 PM
Yeah we've pinpointed the cause of the bouncing motor bug just trying to get a fix on it now. Gamedev is basically just making cool new features that randomly break the other ones :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 25, 2019, 01:53:45 PM
Yeah we've pinpointed the cause of the bouncing motor bug just trying to get a fix on it now. Gamedev is basically just making cool new features that randomly break the other ones :beer:

I found the root causes (2) this morning.  The fix is fairly straightforward.  The collision response should only occur when two conditions are met:

1. The spinner is rotating faster than a threshold RPM.
2. The spinner has rotated more than 2 revolutions.

Fix should come when I can get decent internet access.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 25, 2019, 04:33:14 PM
Gamedev is basically just making cool new features that randomly break the other ones :beer:
Hear hear! :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 26, 2019, 08:03:34 AM
Yeah we've pinpointed the cause of the bouncing motor bug just trying to get a fix on it now. Gamedev is basically just making cool new features that randomly break the other ones :beer:

I found the root causes (2) this morning.  The fix is fairly straightforward.  The collision response should only occur when two conditions are met:

1. The spinner is rotating faster than a threshold RPM.
2. The spinner has rotated more than 2 revolutions.

Fix should come when I can get decent internet access.
great!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 28, 2019, 12:48:38 PM
Just now got to play the new update, and I honestly feel a little underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong, I think that you guys made some great improvements, but I feel like the weapons don't do anything now, especially the spinners. Personally, I want to see the spinners knocking it's opponent around, not glance off it or stop spinning after contact.
As for the flippers, they are perfect.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2019, 01:55:26 PM
Just now got to play the new update, and I honestly feel a little underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong, I think that you guys made some great improvements, but I feel like the weapons don't do anything now, especially the spinners. Personally, I want to see the spinners knocking it's opponent around, not glance off it or stop spinning after contact.
As for the flippers, they are perfect.

I’ve been looking into that.  This morning I found a bug in the spinner collision logic that caused the action impulse to act on the spinner, rather than on the target, causing the net force on both bodies to be zero.  This is why spinners have no pop. 

Fixing soon!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 28, 2019, 02:40:36 PM
I don't want to sound like a dick, but it sounds like you guys would relly benefit from better/more testing before releasing a build. It seems like there's a lot of these bugs that are apparent within a few minutes of gameplay that could be caught before release.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2019, 03:50:27 PM
I don't want to sound like a dick, but it sounds like you guys would relly benefit from better/more testing before releasing a build. It seems like there's a lot of these bugs that are apparent within a few minutes of gameplay that could be caught before release.

I appreciate that, and I just wanted to say that we are trying our hardest to screen bugs before you guys see them.  Overall, I think it is better to get the builds out on a semi-regular basis, rather than trying to create perfection and never releasing anything.  It can be frustrating though!

Thank you for sticking with us as we continue to create new bugs... *ahem* features!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 28, 2019, 04:59:11 PM
Tbh its easier for us to figure and find out bugs
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on July 28, 2019, 05:16:50 PM
Tbh its easier for us to figure and find out bugs
Agreed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 29, 2019, 04:39:36 AM
Tbh its easier for us to figure and find out bugs
Agreed.
I think so, too. Better release the build sooner and let us find the bugs
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 29, 2019, 08:25:53 AM
Tbh its easier for us to figure and find out bugs
Agreed.
I think so, too. Better release the build sooner and let us find the bugs
As a fellow game dev, I couldn't agree more. All four of my Ludum Dare entries have had game-breaking bugs that you would have expected me to notice, but I just didn't. Then I wake up the next morning and find five reviews all pointing out the same issue and have to scramble out a patch, just like cjbruce has been having to do.

This is why I'm giving him so much slack, even when each new release ends up being broken: because it's still early-access, and I know how hard it is to make sure your game is relatively bug-free and fully-playable. Especially when your game is a hell of a lot more complex than the tiny 16kB-of-source-code projects I develop for Ludum Dare! As long as the final release is stable and playable, I don't care how many time the alpha versions break.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on July 29, 2019, 09:08:59 AM
I don't want to sound like a dick, but it sounds like you guys would relly benefit from better/more testing before releasing a build. It seems like there's a lot of these bugs that are apparent within a few minutes of gameplay that could be caught before release.

Thank you for sticking with us as we continue to create new bugs... *ahem* features!
danny2462 would be proud
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 29, 2019, 10:46:34 AM
Thanks for all of the comments, guys!

No ability to upload yet, but here's what I've come up with in the last few days on vacation:

1. Spinner impulse is working correctly in a physically realistic way.  Spinners now apply action impulse to other objects, launching them and getting kicked backward in the process.

2. I took a first cut at spinner damage based on kinetic energy.  I haven't done any tuning yet.  If you hit an enemy, they take the damage.  If you hit a wall or the floor, your own spinner takes damage.

3. Spinner on spinner collisions are not handled yet.  I need to think about this.

Anything else before I get back to civilization? :)

PS - This next build will also include our first cut at chassis armor plates.  Visually, at least.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 29, 2019, 11:22:41 AM
Broken or not - I still get hyped like a kid on sugar when I read there's a new build hahaha!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 30, 2019, 04:06:41 AM
Thanks for all of the comments, guys!

No ability to upload yet, but here's what I've come up with in the last few days on vacation:

1. Spinner impulse is working correctly in a physically realistic way.  Spinners now apply action impulse to other objects, launching them and getting kicked backward in the process.

2. I took a first cut at spinner damage based on kinetic energy.  I haven't done any tuning yet.  If you hit an enemy, they take the damage.  If you hit a wall or the floor, your own spinner takes damage.

3. Spinner on spinner collisions are not handled yet.  I need to think about this.

Anything else before I get back to civilization? :)

PS - This next build will also include our first cut at chassis armor plates.  Visually, at least.
Will both get gamage, if a spinner hits a wedge?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 30, 2019, 06:10:12 AM
Honestly id say, ditch the material tilt and keep it all the same. Maybe different material characteristics?
Like Poly having no sparks on impact, Titanium having more sparks than other materials, and steel being more shiny
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 30, 2019, 10:01:24 AM
Will both get gamage, if a spinner hits a wedge?

That’s a great question.  In general I try to start with a good physical model, then simplify the variables so it is easier for everyone to grok.  Here are my thoughts on spinners vs wedges:

A. When a spinner hits a surface, its ability to “dig into” the surface for a “good hit”, causing damage and impulse, is based on the amount of bite x the “directness of the hit”.  A wedge at a glancing angle will make it very difficult to get a good hit.  The wedge will slow/stop the spinner which will then bounce upward.

B. When a spinner is hit with a component of the force parallel to its axis, it can put a really nasty torque on the bearings.  In our school competition, I watched a big heavy steel hammer spinner break all of its own supports upon impact with a well-built wedge.  Everything tilted off-axis upon impact.

The build I’m getting ready for release models A but not B.  Is it enough that a wedge just stops a spinner from rotating?  I dunno.  Lets get the build out and try it.  We can always add damage later.

Also, just to be clear: If the spinner catches the edge of the wedge, it will register as a good hit, sending the robots flying and doing damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 30, 2019, 10:08:18 AM
Honestly id say, ditch the material tilt and keep it all the same. Maybe different material characteristics?
Like Poly having no sparks on impact, Titanium having more sparks than other materials, and steel being more shiny

What do you mean by the material tilt?  Are you referring to ignoring the angle of impact?  I would like to keep it in for now.  I think it might add a certain level of strategy to try to catch the edges of your opponents.

We have not yet begun to sparks! :smile:  Once we have a good damage system in place, we absolutely intend to add more sparks than would happen in real life.  Sparks are awesome!

Plastic = no sparks
Aluminum = no sparks
Steel = yellow sparks
Titanium = white sparks
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 30, 2019, 11:18:28 AM
Honestly id say, ditch the material tilt and keep it all the same. Maybe different material characteristics?
Like Poly having no sparks on impact, Titanium having more sparks than other materials, and steel being more shiny

What do you mean by the material tilt?  Are you referring to ignoring the angle of impact?  I would like to keep it in for now.  I think it might add a certain level of strategy to try to catch the edges of your opponents.

We have not yet begun to sparks! :smile:  Once we have a good damage system in place, we absolutely intend to add more sparks than would happen in real life.  Sparks are awesome!

Plastic = no sparks
Aluminum = no sparks
Steel = yellow sparks
Titanium = white sparks

Oh, rip me, i meant tint... you know, instead of having still darker than alu, alu darker than uhmw, all have one colour, which would be more helpful for some builds where there will be combined materials

also, idk if alu sparks. but dont forget, TI SPARKS A LOT
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 30, 2019, 06:41:48 PM
Will both get gamage, if a spinner hits a wedge?

That’s a great question.  In general I try to start with a good physical model, then simplify the variables so it is easier for everyone to grok.  Here are my thoughts on spinners vs wedges:

A. When a spinner hits a surface, its ability to “dig into” the surface for a “good hit”, causing damage and impulse, is based on the amount of bite x the “directness of the hit”.  A wedge at a glancing angle will make it very difficult to get a good hit.  The wedge will slow/stop the spinner which will then bounce upward.

B. When a spinner is hit with a component of the force parallel to its axis, it can put a really nasty torque on the bearings.  In our school competition, I watched a big heavy steel hammer spinner break all of its own supports upon impact with a well-built wedge.  Everything tilted off-axis upon impact.

The build I’m getting ready for release models A but not B.  Is it enough that a wedge just stops a spinner from rotating?  I dunno.  Lets get the build out and try it.  We can always add damage later.

Also, just to be clear: If the spinner catches the edge of the wedge, it will register as a good hit, sending the robots flying and doing damage.
I'm looking Forward to it  :claping
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 12:23:14 PM
Alrighty, back to civilization.  Working on a build that is mostly bug fixes:

1. Blur cylinder collision response should now work correctly in all cases.  When a spinner hits something at high speed, action/reaction impulse should be applied correctly to both the spinner and its target.  Damage is just a placeholder, and will be replaced as we put the new damage system together.

2. I figured out and solved the problem with blur cylinder opacity.  Spinners should look much more believable now.

3. kix and codesilver23, is there anything else that needs to be fixed in order for you guys to run tournaments?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 01, 2019, 12:42:16 PM
Alrighty, back to civilization.  Working on a build that is mostly bug fixes:

1. Blur cylinder collision response should now work correctly in all cases.  When a spinner hits something at high speed, action/reaction impulse should be applied correctly to both the spinner and its target.  Damage is just a placeholder, and will be replaced as we put the new damage system together.

2. I figured out and solved the problem with blur cylinder opacity.  Spinners should look much more believable now.

3. kix and codesilver23, is there anything else that needs to be fixed in order for you guys to run tournaments?

It all seems fine. Just transfer the material tints from UHMW to alu and steel, so we can have pure white steel parts, instead of grayish parts (till paint tool works)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 01, 2019, 12:48:22 PM
The difference between the materials aren't really color tints, but the difference in the metallic and reflective properties of the material.
Some way to control that for different paint effects could be added as an option as well, as paints IRL aren't really effected by the material underneath, unless the paint is in part transparent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 01:00:24 PM
Agreed.  Once we have some time to look at the painter again, the metalness/smoothness problem will disappear with a good paint job.

For now, you should be able to apply paint to faces.  Once applied, I believe the painted objects should have zero metalness and should not be smooth at all.  I haven’t checked this recently though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 04:11:20 PM
I just put out a bug fix build called RR2-xxxx-01AUGUST2019–Alpha.  I think it is pretty clean, but I was having physics crash problems with high speed spinners earlier today that I can’t seem to replicate in the editor or in the build.  Would you guys mind taking a look before I send out the email announcement that it is up?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 01, 2019, 04:14:56 PM
I just put out a bug fix build called RR2-xxxx-01AUGUST2019–Alpha.  I think it is pretty clean, but I was having physics crash problems with high speed spinners earlier today that I can’t seem to replicate in the editor or in the build.  Would you guys mind taking a look before I send out the email announcement that it is up?
I have a bot that can replicate crashes, so hey
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
I just put out a bug fix build called RR2-xxxx-01AUGUST2019–Alpha.  I think it is pretty clean, but I was having physics crash problems with high speed spinners earlier today that I can’t seem to replicate in the editor or in the build.  Would you guys mind taking a look before I send out the email announcement that it is up?
I have a bot that can replicate crashes, so hey

Drat!  I’ll take a look. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
I just put out a bug fix build called RR2-xxxx-01AUGUST2019–Alpha.  I think it is pretty clean, but I was having physics crash problems with high speed spinners earlier today that I can’t seem to replicate in the editor or in the build.  Would you guys mind taking a look before I send out the email announcement that it is up?
I have a bot that can replicate crashes, so hey

Drat!  I’ll take a look.


I disabled downloads on the 01August build.  I’ll see if I can find the problem by tomorrow.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 01, 2019, 05:04:28 PM
Alrighty, back to civilization.  Working on a build that is mostly bug fixes:

1. Blur cylinder collision response should now work correctly in all cases.  When a spinner hits something at high speed, action/reaction impulse should be applied correctly to both the spinner and its target.  Damage is just a placeholder, and will be replaced as we put the new damage system together.

2. I figured out and solved the problem with blur cylinder opacity.  Spinners should look much more believable now.

3. kix and codesilver23, is there anything else that needs to be fixed in order for you guys to run tournaments?

It all seems fine. Just transfer the material tints from UHMW to alu and steel, so we can have pure white steel parts, instead of grayish parts (till paint tool works)
What Kix said. Also, because mine is an AI tournament, more in-depth AI would be helpful. I was thinking maybe instead of having the AI editor, there could be a list of options based on the different bot types.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 01, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
I’m afraid that I’m not going to be able to touch AI for tomorrow.  There are a few big things that need to happen before it is addressed, one of which is the new damage system.

Right now miniscript AI is only really suitable for Tombstone-style spinners.  Smartzones aren’t wired up yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 09:44:16 AM
There is a new build!  The intent with this build is to fix bugs so that the game is stable enough to run Parsec tournaments.

The new build is called 02August2019, and is available now for download at:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

With this build I ran through 120 AI battles on two different laptops with a variety of robots, and only got one crash to the main game menu.  Please give it a try and let me know if you are seeing any crashes to the main menu:

1. Which arena?
2. Which robots?
3. Did a piece just break off?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 02, 2019, 09:53:37 AM
Yay!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 02, 2019, 10:07:07 AM
I didn't get a crash in the few minutes I played, although I did have this happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DisCAOG_Kc

Bubblegum freaks out at the start of every match, loses all it's wheels and gets counted out. It instakills any bot that touches it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 10:56:19 AM
I didn't get a crash in the few minutes I played, although I did have this happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DisCAOG_Kc

Bubblegum freaks out at the start of every match, loses all it's wheels and gets counted out. It instakills any bot that touches it.

Phew!  I'm glad to hear that it is stable on someone else's computer.

Thanks for the note on Bubblegum.  It is definitely going to need some tuning work once we work through the damage system.  I'm mostly concerned with the BotLab robots for now.  Once the damage is tuned correctly for those, it is relatively simple to go back and tune the premade robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Camo5 on August 02, 2019, 01:06:02 PM
I made spinny more terrifying. bubblegum stood no chance xD

(https://i.imgur.com/HlHLaOz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/4vBpXYb.png)

I'm no artist and i don't know how to upload the bot. If I were to make this comparable to a bot IRL, this closely resembles ShellShock
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 02, 2019, 01:12:40 PM
A great build. It even fixed the blue tint issue on components with alu/steel
Some gripes however:
-Weapon blur should be removed in my opinion, and you should just keep the weapon model not going transparent
-Spinner weapons do lose colour
-Stuff seems to spin up slow, but that might be 30 kg disc doing its thing
-I can make wheels from cylinder parts. Maybe add a rubber material with more grip?
video of blur issue: https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk (https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk)
-Time to return to menu is slow. It takes around 30 secs - 5 minutes (i have a high end pc so this is not on my end) It seems that main menu is the problem as it occurs whenever i press exit to main menu
-Game looks blurry whenever i launch it, it also seems to default on 1280X768 res. On 1080p resolution i get black borders that you would get on 16:10 resolutions on side but on virtual 1440p res it looks fine. It reverts to 768p whenever i exit botlab or a match. This is my biggest gripe
-Ampflows are a bit bigger than usual, which results in 5 inch wheels having no ground reach if placed directly on a motor. It also means that we need to resize compactly built robots. Apparently, it resizes when entering test area
Overall great update, can host parsec/10
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on August 02, 2019, 02:19:41 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 02:30:08 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something

Maybe try some UHMW skids?  I’ve been experimenting with small spheres...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 02, 2019, 02:40:37 PM
well
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/606934262742122536/unknown.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 02:45:34 PM
well


Is this good or bad?  Can’t tell from the screenshot...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: botbuster on August 02, 2019, 02:46:07 PM
For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 02:50:23 PM
For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: botbuster on August 02, 2019, 02:51:30 PM
For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
All the versions I played were just as laggy.  :(
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 02, 2019, 02:57:17 PM
The axle broke off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 03:04:26 PM
For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
All the versions I played were just as laggy.  :(

Fair enough.  I know it might not help you, but maybe it will help someone else:  If you don’t mind my asking, what are the specs of the machine you are running?

The game runs okay on my 2013 MacBook Air ultralight laptop at 1366x768 resolution.  It had a decent laptop CPU for 6 years ago, and 8 GB of RAM.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 03:09:57 PM
The axle broke off.

How do you feel about it?  Good? Bad?

...now I’m sounding like a psychotherapist...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on August 02, 2019, 03:17:54 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something

Maybe try some UHMW skids?  I’ve been experimenting with small spheres...
The UHMW skid seemed to help in the test arena, but when I took it into an actual fight I still couldn't turn at all. It's really got me stumped as to what's causing this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 03:20:49 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something

Maybe try some UHMW skids?  I’ve been experimenting with small spheres...
The UHMW skid seemed to help in the test arena, but when I took it into an actual fight I still couldn't turn at all. It's really got me stumped as to what's causing this

Maybe the bug that kix found where the motors suddenly increase in size?  Maybe try the 12” wheels?  Also, maybe try shifting as much weight as possible over the wheels?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 02, 2019, 03:22:26 PM
i've noticed that direct driving wheels for drive really doesn't work that well anymore, if you still have direct drive wheels, try using chain/belt drive and gearing them down, helped for a tombclone i had which drove like ass
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 03:39:42 PM
i've noticed that direct driving wheels for drive really doesn't work that well anymore, if you still have direct drive wheels, try using chain/belt drive and gearing them down, helped for a tombclone i had which drove like ass

Hmm.  Thats a really good point.  The Ampflow A28-150G motors we use for our 85 lb school robots are geared down with an 8.3:1 ratio.  This gives a stall torque of 122 Newton-meters.  I’m not sure what would happen if we tried running them ungeared.

For contrast, the ungeared A40-300 has a stall torque of 27 Newton-meters in the game.  This is pushing a robot that is almost 3 times heavier.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on August 02, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
All the versions I played were just as laggy.  :(
what computer do you have
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 02, 2019, 04:03:57 PM
i've noticed that direct driving wheels for drive really doesn't work that well anymore, if you still have direct drive wheels, try using chain/belt drive and gearing them down, helped for a tombclone i had which drove like ass

Hmm.  Thats a really good point.  The Ampflow A28-150G motors we use for our 85 lb school robots are geared down with an 8.3:1 ratio.  This gives a stall torque of 122 Newton-meters.  I’m not sure what would happen if we tried running them ungeared.

For contrast, the ungeared A40-300 has a stall torque of 27 Newton-meters in the game.  This is pushing a robot that is almost 3 times heavier.
Maybe some drive motors in future?


For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
All the versions I played were just as laggy.  :(
what computer do you have
Idk what pc does he have, but this update, stuff is slow to load
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 02, 2019, 04:10:05 PM
i noticed a bug, it seems the bot weight that's displayed in menus is incorrect compared to the weight displayed in the botlab
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: RpJk on August 02, 2019, 04:32:09 PM
I've just checked this out and I must say I'm really liking it despite my laptop being trash. Do you any long term goals for this project?
For example would you make it mobile or console compatible?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 05:03:24 PM
i noticed a bug, it seems the bot weight that's displayed in menus is incorrect compared to the weight displayed in the botlab

Noted!  I think this might have to do with how we are redoing armor as breakaway plates.  We’ll take a look.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 02, 2019, 05:05:04 PM
I've just checked this out and I must say I'm really liking it despite my laptop being trash. Do you any long term goals for this project?
For example would you make it mobile or console compatible?

We would love to, but we still have several thousand hours of core game development first.

My pipe dream is multiplayer VR with a game controller.  We’ll see though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on August 02, 2019, 07:44:58 PM
i've noticed that direct driving wheels for drive really doesn't work that well anymore, if you still have direct drive wheels, try using chain/belt drive and gearing them down, helped for a tombclone i had which drove like ass

Hmm.  Thats a really good point.  The Ampflow A28-150G motors we use for our 85 lb school robots are geared down with an 8.3:1 ratio.  This gives a stall torque of 122 Newton-meters.  I’m not sure what would happen if we tried running them ungeared.

For contrast, the ungeared A40-300 has a stall torque of 27 Newton-meters in the game.  This is pushing a robot that is almost 3 times heavier.
Maybe some drive motors in future?


For some reason, the game is very laggy in battle. I have a Windows 7 and I tried everything from low graphics and shrinking the screen.  :vista:

Have you tried any previous versions?  If so, is there any difference?
All the versions I played were just as laggy.  :(
what computer do you have

Idk what pc does he have, but this update, stuff is slow to load

haha classic kix putting comments inside of quotes
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Camo5 on August 02, 2019, 08:37:55 PM
I'd like to see a planetary geared maytech 6880 brushless motor, many heavyweight bots are using them.

Also, 1806 motor spitboxes for the beetles and 1106 for ants.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 03, 2019, 03:56:49 PM
A great build. It even fixed the blue tint issue on components with alu/steel
Some gripes however:
-Weapon blur should be removed in my opinion, and you should just keep the weapon model not going transparent
-Spinner weapons do lose colour
-Stuff seems to spin up slow, but that might be 30 kg disc doing its thing
-I can make wheels from cylinder parts. Maybe add a rubber material with more grip?
video of blur issue: https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk (https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk)
-Time to return to menu is slow. It takes around 30 secs - 5 minutes (i have a high end pc so this is not on my end) It seems that main menu is the problem as it occurs whenever i press exit to main menu
-Game looks blurry whenever i launch it, it also seems to default on 1280X768 res. On 1080p resolution i get black borders that you would get on 16:10 resolutions on side but on virtual 1440p res it looks fine. It reverts to 768p whenever i exit botlab or a match. This is my biggest gripe
-Ampflows are a bit bigger than usual, which results in 5 inch wheels having no ground reach if placed directly on a motor. It also means that we need to resize compactly built robots. Apparently, it resizes when entering test area
Overall great update, can host parsec/10

1. I will work on weapon blur some more.  I was happy to finally figure out the problem with it not being transparency, and I think the rest of the problems can be addressed by tweaking the amount of blur and the speed at which it is activated.  I like the idea of keeping the blur on axes and flippers.  Without blur, axes move so fast that they appear to teleport from one position to another.
2. When you say "spinner weapons lose color" are you referring to tinted components, or painted components?  I might address this with #1 above.
3. I like the wheels ideas!  I put "rubber material" on the Trello list.
4. I suspect that the slow loading times might be due to Debug.Log() statements that I need to strip out.  Let me know if you need a clean build for the tournament.
5. I'm not sure what happened with the size of the AmpFlow motors.  An A40-300 motor should be 4" in diameter.  I put it on the Trello list as something to look into.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 03, 2019, 04:54:25 PM
i don't know if it's just me, and it's probably intended, but i noticed the hubmotor drum i had would damage itself a LOT on big hits, enough that it can kill itself in 10 hits just from hitting a HW wedge, i also had a case of the drum just breaking off after hitting a rambot a few times
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 03, 2019, 06:04:34 PM
A great build. It even fixed the blue tint issue on components with alu/steel
Some gripes however:
-Weapon blur should be removed in my opinion, and you should just keep the weapon model not going transparent
-Spinner weapons do lose colour
-Stuff seems to spin up slow, but that might be 30 kg disc doing its thing
-I can make wheels from cylinder parts. Maybe add a rubber material with more grip?
video of blur issue: https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk (https://youtu.be/0NBwIUV5WYk)
-Time to return to menu is slow. It takes around 30 secs - 5 minutes (i have a high end pc so this is not on my end) It seems that main menu is the problem as it occurs whenever i press exit to main menu
-Game looks blurry whenever i launch it, it also seems to default on 1280X768 res. On 1080p resolution i get black borders that you would get on 16:10 resolutions on side but on virtual 1440p res it looks fine. It reverts to 768p whenever i exit botlab or a match. This is my biggest gripe
-Ampflows are a bit bigger than usual, which results in 5 inch wheels having no ground reach if placed directly on a motor. It also means that we need to resize compactly built robots. Apparently, it resizes when entering test area
Overall great update, can host parsec/10

1. I will work on weapon blur some more.  I was happy to finally figure out the problem with it not being transparency, and I think the rest of the problems can be addressed by tweaking the amount of blur and the speed at which it is activated.  I like the idea of keeping the blur on axes and flippers.  Without blur, axes move so fast that they appear to teleport from one position to another.
2. When you say "spinner weapons lose color" are you referring to tinted components, or painted components?  I might address this with #1 above.
3. I like the wheels ideas!  I put "rubber material" on the Trello list.
4. I suspect that the slow loading times might be due to Debug.Log() statements that I need to strip out.  Let me know if you need a clean build for the tournament.
5. I'm not sure what happened with the size of the AmpFlow motors.  An A40-300 motor should be 4" in diameter.  I put it on the Trello list as something to look into.


Too lazy with the typing, heres this
https://youtu.be/aH1nxP8nEMQ (https://youtu.be/aH1nxP8nEMQ)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 03, 2019, 06:13:35 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something
Can they spin on the spot? Spitfire can't turn while driving forward/backward, but it can spin on the spot okay. Can't remember whether it was like that before the Bugglebots patch though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 03, 2019, 06:20:52 PM
My 2 wheel drive bots are still just straight up unable to turn. It's been like this since IIRC the bugglebots patch came out. I've tried replacing the drive motors and everything and nothing seems to work. It's as though the chassis has crazy high friction with the floor or something
Can they spin on the spot? Spitfire can't turn while driving forward/backward, but it can spin on the spot okay. Can't remember whether it was like that before the Bugglebots patch though.
Might work to put a tiny cone on the bottom to reduce the surface area that’s touching the ground.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 04, 2019, 05:01:22 AM
I can't open the zip file of the new build. How do I install it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 04, 2019, 05:08:03 AM
I can't open the zip file of the new build. How do I install it?
Forget about it. I restarted my computer and it works.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 05, 2019, 08:48:26 PM
I'm testing a new build now called 06August2019.  It should be ready for upload in the next 24 hours.

It has a few small changes which should make tournaments possible:

Here's the new look:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 05, 2019, 09:05:25 PM
That looks really good. I missed the early August update until today and for some reason  the new download while saying it's the August version still keeps reverting to the hulu 19 version any idea why?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 05, 2019, 09:16:17 PM
That looks really good. I missed the early August update until today and for some reason  the new download while saying it's the August version still keeps reverting to the hulu 19 version any idea why?

I just hit "save" on the page.  It should say "6 August 2019" at the bottom of the menu screen.  If not, please let me know -- the wrong version must have been uploaded.  Here's what the blurb should look like on the lower right corner of the main menu screen:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 05, 2019, 09:19:05 PM
Yeah mine is showing July 19th however file from the rr2 site is saying 02aug

Ps didnt realize you already updated to aug06 build I'll see if that 1 works right.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 05, 2019, 11:16:48 PM
The new version is working for me now however I built a new robot and tested it it sent me to main screen now just says robot I cant click to open it or anything and cant delete either and i can go in build a new bot and it wont show up either i broke it lol.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on August 06, 2019, 12:06:19 AM
Upon installing the patch, I had a bug where two of my bots disappeared in-game and were replaced with a dummy simply called "robot."
I couldn't do anything with the dummy so I simply deleted to the two robots through the files and the dummy disappeared.

Outside of that one thing, the game is still great.  Especially now that I can see shell spinners.

Only one other bug report to be found since last update, being that this robot is completely unaffected by the pit's killzone in the test arena.  Might be a height thing.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 02:20:27 AM
My latest design has crashed the game back to main menu 3 times in a row against 3 different AI all on test arena
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 06:04:50 AM
My latest design has crashed the game back to main menu 3 times in a row against 3 different AI all on test arena

Darn.  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on August 06, 2019, 06:11:35 AM
After some some tinkering and help from Gulden (cheers boss) I've been able to get my bots working in this update. Only real issue I've noticed is the ice skate-y physics for some bots when inverted, but if that's the price of having my bots work then I'm more than willing to pay it. Really enjoying the combat dynamics too. The spinner physics and the tradeoffs between raw KE vs bite depth are proving really interesting to me.

Cheers for keeping up the work and listening to all our issues guys, this game is really starting to feel like the future  :thumbup
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 06:18:44 AM
After some some tinkering and help from Gulden (cheers boss) I've been able to get my bots working in this update. Only real issue I've noticed is the ice skate-y physics for some bots when inverted, but if that's the price of having my bots work then I'm more than willing to pay it. Really enjoying the combat dynamics too. The spinner physics and the tradeoffs between raw KE vs bite depth are proving really interesting to me.

Cheers for keeping up the work and listening to all our issues guys, this game is really starting to feel like the future  :thumbup
Maybe add small rubber pads at top to add friction?

I need yet to test the build, but from what ive heared, hosting is now a big possibility
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 06:20:38 AM
kix,

Does the 06August2019 build still have the problem with taking forever to get back to the main screen? 

I wasn't seeing the delays in the 02August2019 build on my end, but I did a ton of cleanup of the Debug.Log() statements anyway.  The 06August2019 build should generate less garbage than the 02August2019 build.  This should reduce the time required to switch back to the main screen.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 06:23:16 AM
kix,

Does the 06August2019 build still have the problem with taking forever to get back to the main screen? 

I wasn't seeing the delays in the 02August2019 build on my end, but I did a ton of cleanup of the Debug.Log() statements anyway.  The 06August2019 build should generate less garbage than the 02August2019 build.  This should reduce the time required to switch back to the main screen.
Will have to check when im home
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 06:38:52 AM
Sounds good!

Also, the problem with robots not showing up is happening for me too.

I suspect that this is due to the work @tashic is doing that affects the BotLab and .RR2Bot files.  As Guldenflame wrote, whenever we make changes to the BotLab:
1. Copy your old .RR2Bot files somewhere else (maybe to the Desktop?).
2. Delete the game's Robots directory.
3. Restart the game and go to the Robot Workshop.  This will recreate the Robots directory.
4. Move your old .RR2Bot files back into the new Robots directory.  They should now be visible in the game.

PS - I don't know if anyone has dug into a .RR2Bot file recently, but you might notice that the file now stores data about the armor plates.  We are hoping to make these plates destructible in a future build:

"collision_hulls": [],
                "hulls_local_pos": [],
                "surface_area": 0.0,
                "com": {
                    "x": 0.0,
                    "y": 0.0,
                    "z": 0.0
                },
                "shape_plates": [
                    {
                        "plate_visual_mesh": {
                            "vertices": [
                                {
                                    "x": -0.30000001192092898,
                                    "y": 0.0010000000474974514,
                                    "z": 0.30000001192092898
                                },
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 06:45:21 AM
Really enjoying the combat dynamics too. The spinner physics and the tradeoffs between raw KE vs bite depth are proving really interesting to me.

I'm glad you like it!

I was inspired by team RioBotz' collaboration with the MIT Mech E department to design their drum spinners:

http://web.mit.edu/jlramos/www/Arquivos/Drum%20Shape%20Design%20and%20Optimization.pdf (http://web.mit.edu/jlramos/www/Arquivos/Drum%20Shape%20Design%20and%20Optimization.pdf)

It turns out that an out-of-balance spinner shape automatically runs slower in Unity's PhysX simulation, so all I had to do was a bite depth calculation to get a fairly complete spinner model.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 07:46:44 AM
I got to thinking is there any chance we could get tracks soon? I figure with the pulley/chain system itd be easy to make something similar for basic tracks and later could add a way to make tracks that were a simple 2 spur setup.

Also maybe a way to slow down the different pneumatic and linear systems to make  more controlled movements for various builds.

I'd also love to see flatter motors for horizontals and shell spinners.

I'd also love to see maybe a control system more like ra2 where there isnt as much overlap on controls to allow for more advanced designs where I dont have to remember which button did what.

With all that said I'm loving this game especially this last build where there are some reactions to the forces from spinners keep up the good work :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 06, 2019, 07:58:00 AM
I'd also love to see flatter motors for horizontals and shell spinners.

Pancake motors have been requested repeatedly (including by my good self) so I'm sure they're on the devs' to-do list already. I think they're still at the point where they're getting the physics, mechanics, and general gameplay nailed down; once that's taken care of, then they can start focusing on adding more content.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 08:29:20 AM
Oh for sure on the priorities. I also didnt realize it had been previously brought up.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 08:43:20 AM
We are trying to stick to real-life motors only.  The ME0708 is used in Tombstone/Last Rites, and is very similar to the custom motor used in Carbide.  Let me know if there is something else you are looking for, and we can put it on the list of motors to model.

Edit:  Right now we have permission to use Motenergy and Ampflow motors.  Here are their product lines.  If you see anything you like here, it should be a simple matter to model it up.  Let me know if there is anything here that might fit the bill:

http://ampflow.com (http://ampflow.com)
http://motenergy.com (http://motenergy.com)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 09:12:04 AM
Maybe adding P40 lines of ampflow motors? Also Ampflow geared motors sound well.
idk how hard would it be to get a license from Vex or Magmotor comp.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 09:19:37 AM
New issue: My 10 or so bots are gone, and there is one robot button that does nothing. Cant also make new bots
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 09:29:49 AM
New issue: My 10 or so bots are gone, and there is one robot button that does nothing. Cant also make new bots

That happened to me too.

Check out the instructions from a few posts back...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 09:50:23 AM
New issue: My 10 or so bots are gone, and there is one robot button that does nothing. Cant also make new bots

That happened to me too.

Check out the instructions from a few posts back...
Doesnt work. Seems that adding, the armor plates stats break that, (copied/merged some .rr2bot lines)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 09:55:09 AM
Maybe adding P40 lines of ampflow motors? Also Ampflow geared motors sound well.
idk how hard would it be to get a license from Vex or Magmotor comp.

Ooo.  Good call!

I like the P40-250.  At 24 volts it has a stall torque of 14 Newton-meters in a package that is only 3.3 inches thick.  It would make a great lightweight 24V weapon motor to contrast with the 48V ME0708 for heavyweights.

I haven't asked VEX yet.  They are used in a LOT of school robotics competitions here in the US.  I believe that Magmotors used to be really similar to Etek/Motenergy, but I think they have diversified their line quite a bit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
New issue: My 10 or so bots are gone, and there is one robot button that does nothing. Cant also make new bots

That happened to me too.

Check out the instructions from a few posts back...
Doesnt work. Seems that adding, the armor plates stats break that, (copied/merged some .rr2bot lines)

Darn!

Send me what you have, and I will try to get them working in the new build.

Were you able to get the BotLab running again without the old robots?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 06, 2019, 09:56:46 AM
Oh, i figured out what was breaking my bots.
in the "robot_construction": section,  "comp_string_id": "customShape_0" had "brake": true, which broke the bot, setting that to false fixed it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 10:00:13 AM
Oh, i figured out what was breaking my bots.
in the "robot_construction": section,  "comp_string_id": "customShape_0" had "brake": true, which broke the bot, setting that to false fixed it

Great catch!  I have no idea what "brake": true would do for a custom shape.

tashic, any ideas?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 10:21:09 AM
I thought tombstone used the tmw3r? Also wyachi has some  motors that would be cool to look into.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
I thought tombstone used the tmw3r? Also wyachi has some  motors that would be cool to look into.

Possibly that too.  I did get confirmation from Ray Billings (the builder of Tombstone and Last Rites) on it, along with some numbers for his spinners.

I was surprised how big the motor actually is in real life.  The robots look smaller on TV.  Maybe we need a bigger arena? 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 11:08:29 AM
A bigger arena such as robot wars or battlebots would be cool and would bring driving more into the game

Also as far as motor I seen it on an AMA Ray did but i dont remember how old it was
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 06, 2019, 01:47:41 PM
on the topic of corrupted bots, it seems only new bots that were made using the 02 august build are affected, builds from before this build that were edited with this build are fine

also Kix's fix didn't work for me
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 01:57:34 PM
on the topic of corrupted bots, it seems only new bots that were made using the 02 august build are affected, builds from before this build that were edited with this build are fine

also Kix's fix didn't work for me

Crap.

tashic, any ideas?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 06, 2019, 02:56:05 PM
Let me know if there is something else you are looking for, and we can put it on the list of motors to model.

When I was prototyping my own robot combat game, I used this site (https://www.printedmotorworks.com/brushed-pancake-motors/) to fetch the dimensions and rough specs of a pancake motor. I was planning for mine to be unlicensed and generic, idk how you'd go about licensing the actual motor.

I have links for a couple of different model aircraft engines too, if you ever wanna implement petrol-powered motors in the game...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 06, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
In other news, is there a way I can add a chain drive to a motor without having to delete everything attached to it and rebuild it? Because I was about to make Goodbye Kiss' hammer chain-driven, and then realised I'd have to delete the whole thing one piece at a time and rebuild it, and sod that tbqh
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 06, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
In other news, is there a way I can add a chain drive to a motor without having to delete everything attached to it and rebuild it? Because I was about to make Goodbye Kiss' hammer chain-driven, and then realised I'd have to delete the whole thing one piece at a time and rebuild it, and sod that tbqh
Copy paste is probably your best bet
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 06, 2019, 04:36:21 PM
In other news, is there a way I can add a chain drive to a motor without having to delete everything attached to it and rebuild it? Because I was about to make Goodbye Kiss' hammer chain-driven, and then realised I'd have to delete the whole thing one piece at a time and rebuild it, and sod that tbqh
Copy paste is probably your best bet
I totally forgot that that was a thing (and that it worked on whole component chains). Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 06, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Any time!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 05:01:42 PM
on the topic of corrupted bots, it seems only new bots that were made using the 02 august build are affected, builds from before this build that were edited with this build are fine

also Kix's fix didn't work for me

Did you try the fix I described above?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 06, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
the whole delete the robots folder and put your bots in it again ? yes, did nothing either, the bots are still corrupted
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 06:33:43 PM
the whole delete the robots folder and put your bots in it again ? yes, did nothing either, the bots are still corrupted

Double drat.  How many robots did you lose?

Edit:  Can you send me one of them to me and tashic?  Maybe we can track down the source of the problem.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 06, 2019, 06:54:04 PM
lost 7 robots, here's one of them
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 07:40:02 PM
lost 7 robots, here's one of them

Got it!  I'll take a look over the next few hours and see what I can do...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 06, 2019, 09:07:18 PM
lost 7 robots, here's one of them

Figured it out!  The 02August build has plates defined, but no plate materials, thickness, or tint.  The 06August build requires all of these for plates.

Open up the .RR2Bot file in a text editor and search for the word "material".  In order to get the plate materials, thickness, and tint into the bot, you must add them as follows in bold for each plate.  I'm pretty sure plates only exist for chassis parts so far, so you should only have to do this for however many plates your chassis has.  Since Slambus uses a box for the chassis, it only has 6 plates.


            "material_id": 4,
            "thickness": 0.004000000189989805,
            "tint": {
                "r": 1.0,
                "g": 1.0,
                "b": 0.0,
                "a": 1.0
            },
            "material_id_plates": [
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4
            ],
            "thickness_plates": [
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809
            ],
            "tint_plates": [],
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 06, 2019, 09:37:44 PM
thanks, so the only thing i have to change for my other broken bots is to add more "rows" to the material and thickness plate arrays depending on the number of faces right ?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 06, 2019, 09:52:08 PM
Glitch I just found while goofing around with botlab. I went to load this large disc into test area and game stretched it way out of shape.

Just tried a bar design on it and I had to shrink bar way way down to avoid floor.  Like smaller than the 10in wheels on bot but when in test area has reach to almost floor like the blade would be at normal size and this seemed to only happen on this bot with its angled weapon so far.

Welp found another bug was making a large dustpan and game decided ig should have a long tail for its chassis
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 07, 2019, 12:01:03 AM
lost 7 robots, here's one of them

Figured it out!  The 02August build has plates defined, but no plate materials, thickness, or tint.  The 06August build requires all of these for plates.

Open up the .RR2Bot file in a text editor and search for the word "material".  In order to get the plate materials, thickness, and tint into the bot, you must add them as follows in bold for each plate.  I'm pretty sure plates only exist for chassis parts so far, so you should only have to do this for however many plates your chassis has.  Since Slambus uses a box for the chassis, it only has 6 plates.


            "material_id": 4,
            "thickness": 0.004000000189989805,
            "tint": {
                "r": 1.0,
                "g": 1.0,
                "b": 0.0,
                "a": 1.0
            },
            "material_id_plates": [
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4,
                4
            ],
            "thickness_plates": [
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809,
                0.008999999612569809
            ],
            "tint_plates": [],

The thing is. Deep Regret and some other bots didnt have this when being transferred to 06 build, and worked fine. Craplectric also didnt have this, but it only worked when i apllied what i did (what i thought was a fix)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 05:49:22 AM
thanks, so the only thing i have to change for my other broken bots is to add more "rows" to the material and thickness plate arrays depending on the number of faces right ?

That's correct.  Slambus loaded correctly once I inserted the lines above.  Once the robot loads, you should be able to go back and change the plate material and thickness in the workshop as normal using the "Materials" tab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 05:56:28 AM

The thing is. Deep Regret and some other bots didnt have this when being transferred to 06 build, and worked fine. Craplectric also didnt have this, but it only worked when i apllied what i did (what i thought was a fix)

For Mystic2000's problem, I think it depended on which robots you loaded into the robot workshop and when.  Different builds were put out in varying stages of completeness.  I happened to get lucky in that I didn't create any new robots partway through the transition process, so I never saw the potential problems.

Looking through the code, I noticed that the game checks to see if plates exist in the .RR2Bot file.  If so, the game assumes all of the rest of the information about the plates are defined. If it can't find the rest of the information about the plates in the .RR2Bot file, then the game will fail to load the robot.  To fix it, you need to add the rest of the information for the plates.

If plates don't exist at all in the .RR2Bot file then the game should load the robot without a problem.

The fix you found is most likely for a different issue, though still valid.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 07, 2019, 07:12:19 AM
Was bored and was trying to see if I could force a glitch from the game and tried spinner stacking and pistons on spinners neither worked but did figure out how to get huge ke from a spinner albeit useless as I designed it but possibly an exploit for very powerful spinners not sure until I test it. Basically I have an a4300 with a small disc withbar attached to it at 1:10 ratio the put the me0708 on the the disc aswell and somehow increased the ke of the a40300 despite not doing anything other then spinning on the spinner?  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  


Alright I think I found the limit bot literally freaks out even though it's still a celerating  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 07, 2019, 07:26:16 AM
617 mph?! That's approximately 80% of the speed of sound.

I'm sure there will be plenty of exploits like that, but they will almost invariably be un-IRL - and I can foresee tournaments having tip speed limits anyway for balancing purposes, just like BattleBots and Extreme Robots have.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 07, 2019, 07:45:06 AM
Oh for sure but I couldn't sleep and wanted to see if the old ra2 exploits would transition at all and if i could find bugs and glitches to help the dev's out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 08:01:58 AM
This is extremely helpful!  Thank you thank you thank you!  I never would have thought of doing half of this stuff!

In the end, the theoretical limit shouldn’t matter, but the instantaneous angular momentum (rotational speed x moment of inertia) and kinetic energy are both potentially game-breaking if they get too high. 

I put in a hack to make air drag grow exponentially as you approach Mach 1, but I never expected anyone to actually get there. 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 07, 2019, 08:37:58 AM
I found the problem that caused the robots to not show.
The problem was caused by a part of the code not getting initialized and remained "null". The problem only happened with robots with the new chassis system, all the robots without it shouldn't have been affected.
Now the game should be able to handle robots with no chassis plate information in the next builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 07, 2019, 08:55:21 AM
Also something else I found with that massive bar even when it was just resting against another bot it absolutely shreds the other bot despite having no ke
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 01:41:16 PM
Also something else I found with that massive bar even when it was just resting against another bot it absolutely shreds the other bot despite having no ke

Woah.  When you say “Shred”, are you referring to movement or to damage?

Edit:  I wonder if this is due to the old “puncture” mechanic, where if something puts a lot of force on a robot in one location, it will do progressively more and more damage over time. 

It was a brainstorm that needs work.  i.e. Puncture probably shouldn’t take effect unless the puncturing object is “sharp” (no idea how to implement this yet), and the force required to puncture will depend on the strength of the material, the thickness of the material, and the size of the hole being poked.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 03:21:31 PM
I think I have a good solution to the ridiculously fast spinner issue.  It doesn’t nerf the spinners so much as it makes the gyroscopic forces more significant.  This should make them harder to control.

I’m going to try to put a link up tonight for a non-advertised “bleeding edge” build on our website.  I’ll post the link for it here in about seven hours.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 07, 2019, 03:37:33 PM
I meant damage the health bar just goes down smoothly and fairly quick.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 05:23:42 PM
I meant damage the health bar just goes down smoothly and fairly quick.

Got it.  That’s definitely the WIP puncture mechanic.  Need to tweak it so that it only works for crusher/pincer weapons.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 07, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
What can I do, if the filefor the new build doesn't open?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 07, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
What can I do, if the filefor the new build doesn't open?
Did you extract the zip file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 07, 2019, 07:31:05 PM
What can I do, if the filefor the new build doesn't open?
Did you extract the zip file?
It doesn't want to extract or open it. Maybe that's just my computer doing weird stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 09:12:47 PM
Alrighty,

I just created a folder on our website called "bleedingedgebuilds":

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

It contains whatever we might want to do for testing.  There are currently two files there, a Windows build, and a MacOS build for 07August2019.

If you get a chance, please try the following:
1. Download and run the build.
2. Load up a high-powered spinner.
3. Try to drive and/or fight with the spinner.
4. Record your observations by replying to this thread.

In this build, I have pretty much eliminated the mass reduction used to stabilize high speed spinners.  The result is that high mass/high speed spinners are significantly more likely to go crazy, launching your robot around the arena.  Gyroscopic effects are now significant, and so are the effects due to the discrete nature of the physics engine (a.k.a. physics "explosions").  It doesn't nerf the damage in any way.  It just makes spinners harder to control.

What are the statistics for the spinner you tested?
How do you feel about the change?
A. I didn't really see an effect.
B. The effect was too small.
C. The effect felt about right.
D. The effect was too much.
E. It doesn't matter how big the effect is, because this approach just doesn't feel right.  Lets try something else!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 07, 2019, 09:13:39 PM
What can I do, if the filefor the new build doesn't open?
Did you extract the zip file?
It doesn't want to extract or open it. Maybe that's just my computer doing weird stuff

Windows or MacOS?

Maybe try the build I just uploaded?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 07, 2019, 10:35:46 PM
Will the new version show as Aug7 build in game?

If not I feel like I'm getting alot more torque on spin up and more gyro effect where bots want to stay up on 1 wheel from hits and turning with certs but nothing I feel really stops big spinners just makes them a little more work to control probably would make the bots useless as ai
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 08, 2019, 06:07:02 AM
What can I do, if the filefor the new build doesn't open?
Did you extract the zip file?
It doesn't want to extract or open it. Maybe that's just my computer doing weird stuff

Windows or MacOS?

Maybe try the build I just uploaded?
Ok I don't know why, but my computer only downloaded about 50 megabytes. Anyways it's working now, as I downloaded it again
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 08, 2019, 06:51:25 AM
I played the new build and I can't save any bot I built and all the bots, I built in the August 2 build are gone.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 08, 2019, 07:17:28 AM
Can you upload one of the bots that are giving issues?
So I can see what other problems I need to fix.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 08, 2019, 07:20:45 AM
When it just shows a "robot" button, that means that something went wrong while loading a robot and it stops spawning the others.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 09, 2019, 04:41:11 AM
When it just shows a "robot" button, that means that something went wrong while loading a robot and it stops spawning the others.
How can I fix it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 09, 2019, 05:55:10 AM
When it just shows a "robot" button, that means that something went wrong while loading a robot and it stops spawning the others.
How can I fix it?

Check back a few posts to Post #883 in this thread.  You should find instructions on how to edit your affected .RR2Bot files.

You will need to find where the .RR2Bot files are stored on your computer (different for Windows vs Mac) and edit the file manually.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 09, 2019, 06:29:58 AM
Out of curiosity if I copied bot file and renamed it would i be able to essentially clone a bot so I could say make a modular bot in a sense?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 09, 2019, 06:45:51 AM
When it just shows a "robot" button, that means that something went wrong while loading a robot and it stops spawning the others.
How can I fix it?

Check back a few posts to Post #883 in this thread.  You should find instructions on how to edit your affected .RR2Bot files.

You will need to find where the .RR2Bot files are stored on your computer (different for Windows vs Mac) and edit the file manually.

I'm not sure if you are using the "bleeding edge" version, but in that version that fix shouldn't be needed, and if it the robot doesn't work, that fix shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 09, 2019, 06:47:47 AM
When it just shows a "robot" button, that means that something went wrong while loading a robot and it stops spawning the others.
How can I fix it?

Can you upload here the robot file or files that don't work?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 09, 2019, 07:10:37 AM
Only problem that im seeing wity bleeding edge version is that one of my bots (only the eruption rep) has an issue where it barely steers left. Right steering is normal
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 09, 2019, 07:29:40 AM
Just downloaded it. I noticed that it only saved my first 5 robots and scrapped the rest.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on August 09, 2019, 07:44:26 AM
Just downloaded it. I noticed that it only saved my first 5 robots and scrapped the rest.
The game doesn't remove bots automatically, you still have them in the folder, but the game has encountered a problem while loading a bot and stopped there.
If you can upload the robots that create problems, I can then see where the problem is.

On windows it saves the bots in C:/users/"user name"/AppData/LocalLow/Nerd Island Studios LLC/Robot Rumble 2_0/Robots/ .
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 09, 2019, 02:58:02 PM
Out of curiosity if I copied bot file and renamed it would i be able to essentially clone a bot so I could say make a modular bot in a sense?

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 09, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Only problem that im seeing wity bleeding edge version is that one of my bots (only the eruption rep) has an issue where it barely steers left. Right steering is normal

Very weird for a flipper!

Do I have a copy of the .RR2Bot file already?  Steering should only be different for spinners, not for flippers.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 09, 2019, 03:27:01 PM
Only problem that im seeing wity bleeding edge version is that one of my bots (only the eruption rep) has an issue where it barely steers left. Right steering is normal

Very weird for a flipper!

Do I have a copy of the .RR2Bot file already?  Steering should only be different for spinners, not for flippers.
tested on previous copy, does the same thing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on August 09, 2019, 10:48:07 PM
so, while the gyro is much more noticable and a good way of keeping stupid spinners from being too broken, i've noticed a lot more crashes during fights with various robots, i also had crashes in the test box from hitting the crate or wall too hard with some of my bigger spinners
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on August 09, 2019, 11:10:37 PM
Mystic I definently agree my big spinners were crashing game before occasionally but they do do it a little more now
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on August 10, 2019, 08:51:35 AM
With this new build, the bots that didn't appear now are which is good. I'm also excited to see what's going to happen with this panel addition.

While we're reporting bugs, however, I seem to be having an issue with the duplicate tools (both the single and multiple) now working... It will allow me to like move the duplicated pieces around but the moment I go to place them, they'll stay where I choose on the first click, but once I click away elsewhere they disappear? Dunno if anyone else is having this issue?

I also feel like the breaking point for the chain/belt drives is way too low but I imagine this will be ironed out once damage is sorted haha.

The rubber material is also a brilliant idea, but we now may be requiring torus/donut shapes to make more believable wheels... :P
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 10, 2019, 01:08:16 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436299751395426315/609809996103942154/unknown.png)
was messing around with the file
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 10, 2019, 01:57:33 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/436299751395426315/609809996103942154/unknown.png)
was messing around with the file
Oh, now that's interesting. Mount a spinner on that and see what happens. I'd be very interested to see if the rotation translates, because this could open a pathway to flatter horizontal spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 10, 2019, 02:17:18 PM
More motivation to get flatter motors.  Eep!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 10, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Mystic I definently agree my big spinners were crashing game before occasionally but they do do it a little more now

It sounds like physics stability needs to be my next priority.  Every time I push into a new direction and add a new feature, stability suffers.  Grrr.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 10, 2019, 02:22:15 PM
Mystic I definently agree my big spinners were crashing game before occasionally but they do do it a little more now

It sounds like physics stability needs to be my next priority.  Every time I push into a new direction and add a new feature, stability suffers.  Grrr.
Yep, that's game development for ya. I've been watching the Automation devs do this for like four years, don't worry about it.

More motivation to get flatter motors.  Eep!
Another option might be to have some kind of dedicated component for translating rotation in that way. Hypno-Disc used a gear setup like that IIRC (though Hypno-Disc was not exactly a shining beacon of mechanical reliability).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 10, 2019, 05:06:15 PM
Iirc it worked. Well gonna test it tomorrow again before i trade my ram for a working stick
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 15, 2019, 04:23:07 AM
been playing both builds for a while now, and i can say that there are still some issues

August 6th issues:
-Corrupt bots (BE build fixes it so not a big deal)

Bleeding edge issues:
-Gyro is still not working well. I can see that the pit floor has different material, and is actually great material for gyroing
Video for that:
-A bot is unable to steer left and right, again pit floor eliminates that
vid:

Both issues:
-Bot spinner impacts are hit or miss, if i hit a wheel with a spinner, i lose all emergy, and the opponent just absorbs it
-Self Destruction is also a hit or miss, sometimes it wont lose hp where it should like when bouncing off walls. When i hit an opponent i will lose hp tho and i lose a considerable ammount of hp
-Flippers are complicated... When im at full hp, i can toss opponents without problems, whenever i get hit and lose HP (doesnt matter how much), everytime i flip an opponent i will lose hp. Sometimes it not too much, sometimes it is
-Bots still bounce, idk what is the problem, but i guess small motors cause this most of the time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on August 15, 2019, 11:04:21 AM
-A bot is unable to steer left and right, again pit floor eliminates that
vid:
This can be a combanation on issues on the robot, not the game.
-Your wheelbase is too thin.
-Your wheels are too small (Go one size larger than what barely peeks out).
-Your motors are the Ampflow 30-400s.  They are way too weak to be used on 2WD.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 15, 2019, 11:30:49 AM
-A bot is unable to steer left and right, again pit floor eliminates that
vid:
This can be a combanation on issues on the robot, not the game.
-Your wheelbase is too thin.
-Your wheels are too small (Go one size larger than what barely peeks out).
-Your motors are the Ampflow 30-400s.  They are way too weak to be used on 2WD.
Nah its on all bots. Bots steer better on the pit floor


Also done with Apex Rumble 3.0 gonna edit fast
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 15, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
You gonna be posting Apex Rumble on gtm and youtube?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on August 22, 2019, 09:28:50 AM
I hope you don't mind me putting this here but just an idea I had for when it comes to this part of the games development....

With the AI coding, obviously there's two kinds of people in the world - those who can basically speak in 1's and 0's, and those who are a bit more basic (like me lol).

What if there was two different methods, a 'basic' and 'advanced', but using a 'blocks' and 'coding' system respectively.

A loose concept of the blocks system I had in mind:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

My thinking was along the lines of those basic kids programs that introduce kids to coding and game development (I think Scratch might be one of them???? I used it a couple of times in secondary school lol). Or even an app like If This Then That in which you set up social systems like "IF 'you post on Facebook' THEN 'share post on Twitter'".

Obviously the blocks would be good for the very basic coding and allowing users to breakdown the AI system easier if that's how they work, but if a user want's to jump straight into the source coding to create something more complex then they can use the already implemented coding AI editor.

I just thought with RA2 it could take a while for new users to learn to create the AI for their robots if they have never worked with coding before. Some people are more visual rather than working with words aswell (like myself - I love a picture lol), meaning they can go about the AI editing easier.

Just an idea I had for when this aspect of the game comes under proper development! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 22, 2019, 09:18:26 PM
This is totally on my “Dang!  I really want this!” list. 

I would really really like to get visual coding working.  I think it would be a literal game-changer, and open up a whole new group of people to robot combat.  There are probably 100 times as many kids involved in things like FIRST robotics as there are kids doing robot combat.  A slick AI coding system in the game could help bridge that gap and get more kids involved in combat robotics.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on August 23, 2019, 04:03:00 AM
This is totally on my “Dang!  I really want this!” list. 

I would really really like to get visual coding working.  I think it would be a literal game-changer, and open up a whole new group of people to robot combat.  There are probably 100 times as many kids involved in things like FIRST robotics as there are kids doing robot combat.  A slick AI coding system in the game could help bridge that gap and get more kids involved in combat robotics.

Oh wow! I actually contributed a good idea! :')

I was also thinking (but forgot to put in my last post) about whether it might be a good idea to include the AI code as part of the .rr2 file? At this point I've done some stuff with the AI on certain bots that needed it, but it soon gets erased and set back to default by the game? Plus it would aid tournament hosts in the future by just having it as a part of the package sent over by entrants.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 23, 2019, 05:25:40 AM
I was also thinking (but forgot to put in my last post) about whether it might be a good idea to include the AI code as part of the .rr2 file? At this point I've done some stuff with the AI on certain bots that needed it, but it soon gets erased and set back to default by the game? Plus it would aid tournament hosts in the future by just having it as a part of the package sent over by entrants.

The AI code is already saved to the .RR2Bot file.  It is Base64 encoded though.  You can't read it unless you copy-paste it into a Base64 decoder.

It should be saved/loaded with the robot, but I haven't checked to make sure it is still working since last spring when I shifted focus away from AI.

I am looking forward to focusing on AI again.  It, like so many other things, is going to depend on the new damage system, so I probably won't get back to it until we are happy with the way damage works.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 23, 2019, 05:56:14 AM
New bleeding edge builds are up!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

These are labeled 20AUGUST2019, and have a few minor tweaks over the 07AUGUST2019 build:

-Improved the armor plate generation algorithm.
-Fixed problem which prevented cloning of parts in the robot workshop.
-Added date/timestamp of build in Zulu time so that everyone knows exactly which build they are using.  This should make tournaments a little easier to run.
-Updated contents in the robot workshop help screen.
-Reworked the component placement restrictions: 1. Invalid placements are shown in red. 2. You can't attach components to electronics or batteries, unless you are placing electronics or batteries. 3. You can't attach components to motors/pistons/actuator bodies, only to the axle/rod/etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 23, 2019, 09:58:21 AM
Hoo boy, we wont be able to fuse stuff together, i like that. Need to test it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 23, 2019, 11:46:24 AM
Hoo boy, we wont be able to fuse stuff together, i like that. Need to test it

Its pretty rudimentary at this point.  I don't think there is any checking that happens if you edited your .RR2Bot file, for example.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 24, 2019, 08:13:21 AM
This game is a lot of fun to play. It might be the best robot combat game out there. For a future addition, I would like to run a spinning weapon with 2 motors.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 24, 2019, 08:36:50 AM
Hoo boy, we wont be able to fuse stuff together, i like that. Need to test it

Its pretty rudimentary at this point.  I don't think there is any checking that happens if you edited your .RR2Bot file, for example.

I dunno how far you'd be able to go with that anyway. Like, if someone does do that, and the game detects it, what can you do about it? Prevent them from taking part in fights until they go into the bot lab and fix it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on August 24, 2019, 12:36:18 PM
I think I may have found a bug. The newest version worked fine the first time I opened it however on the second time I now can’t select any buttons from the main menu.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 24, 2019, 05:24:48 PM
Played the new build, here are some of my thoughts:
-Intersection is as is. Dont have much opinions rn in condition as is
-I have noticed that you have added spinner sound (+other sounds) in test area, hopefully you add it in battles
-Bouncing is almost non-existant in battles. What did you do?
-Steering is still a bit eh for 2wd bots. Gonna try and change motors to see if that works
-Flippers still are too op, they tend to ohko bots with steel chassis
-Flippers also still lose hp when they flip opponents when they dont have full hp
-Build seems to be a lot more stable
-Motor axles are a bit too fragile
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 24, 2019, 07:02:23 PM
I played the new bleeding build and the only thing I found is, that the robots keep loosing wheels because of nothing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 24, 2019, 07:18:01 PM
I think I may have found a bug. The newest version worked fine the first time I opened it however on the second time I now can’t select any buttons from the main menu.

Very weird.  One of the bleeding edge builds?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 24, 2019, 07:42:19 PM
Played the new build, here are some of my thoughts:
-Intersection is as is. Dont have much opinions rn in condition as is
-I have noticed that you have added spinner sound (+other sounds) in test area, hopefully you add it in battles
-Bouncing is almost non-existant in battles. What did you do?
-Steering is still a bit eh for 2wd bots. Gonna try and change motors to see if that works
-Flippers still are too op, they tend to ohko bots with steel chassis
-Flippers also still lose hp when they flip opponents when they dont have full hp
-Build seems to be a lot more stable
-Motor axles are a bit too fragile

I’m not sure which bouncing you are referring to.  Spinners or non-spinning things?

Poor steering still means friction is set too high.  I can lower it a little.

Flippers are about twice as powerful as in real life.  I can definitely tone them down.

Good to hear about stability!  Thats the thing that worries me the most.

We can definitely adjust the way axles take damage.  I almost feel like we might be able to get rid of axle breakage, depending on how much we like being able to chip away at stuff with the new damage system.  Of course, it doesn’t exist yet, so who knows until it is in place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on August 25, 2019, 02:55:36 AM
I think I may have found a bug. The newest version worked fine the first time I opened it however on the second time I now can’t select any buttons from the main menu.

Very weird.  One of the bleeding edge builds?

Yeah the 20th August bleeding edge version. I have to delete the file and re-extract every time I use it otherwise the menu buttons get a case of stage fright. It doesn’t look like Kix is having this problem so at least it’s not a universal problem.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 25, 2019, 03:37:02 AM
I’m not sure which bouncing you are referring to.  Spinners or non-spinning things?
Driving bouncing, you know, the issue we had for few builds now

Poor steering still means friction is set too high.  I can lower it a little.
i dont know how will that affect the driving/sliding, maybe its only one bot's issue, i do have noticed that the pit floor has perfect friction/material thp

Flippers are about twice as powerful as in real life.  I can definitely tone them down.
Its not about the power. Its about the fact that they deal too much damage. As for the power, its not bad, i have noticed if your flipper is a bit heavier, it will have more force/energy behind the flip

Good to hear about stability!  Thats the thing that worries me the most.
Only had one crash, but it was in test area, and with DB2

We can definitely adjust the way axles take damage.  I almost feel like we might be able to get rid of axle breakage, depending on how much we like being able to chip away at stuff with the new damage system.  Of course, it doesn’t exist yet, so who knows until it is in place.
maybe re-add it when damage starts to work?

Spinner wind up sound is apparently in fights, its just that they might be too quiet


Also one idea for the damage, maybe instead of the whole part falling off, sides (basically each side mesh of a cube, for an example) fall off?
Another idea. For the Momentary Switch for the burst motors, maybe have a second or 2 of delay after you press the button and release it the moment after, because currently they retract too fast
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: calgoblin on August 25, 2019, 05:56:47 AM
Yeah the 20th August bleeding edge version. I have to delete the file and re-extract every time I use it otherwise the menu buttons get a case of stage fright. It doesn’t look like Kix is having this problem so at least it’s not a universal problem.

What's your resolution out of interest? Far as I'm aware there wasn't any difference in the menu UI between these builds, did you have this issue on the Itch.io build also?

Spinner wind up sound is apparently in fights, its just that they might be too quiet

So right now it is just the motors making the audio. The actual spinner attachments do not yet make any noise as I'm battling with enough variation, randomisation, and development time (of which currently I can't put in anywhere near enough :()
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on August 25, 2019, 11:11:05 AM
Yeah the 20th August bleeding edge version. I have to delete the file and re-extract every time I use it otherwise the menu buttons get a case of stage fright. It doesn’t look like Kix is having this problem so at least it’s not a universal problem.

What's your resolution out of interest? Far as I'm aware there wasn't any difference in the menu UI between these builds, did you have this issue on the Itch.io build also?

Using full screen - 1680x1050 resolution. Never had the issue on any previous versions of the game. The buttons are visible but don’t do anything (I have to alt tab to close the game, can’t access settings, workshop or battle mode etc).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 25, 2019, 03:38:34 PM
I’m not sure which bouncing you are referring to.  Spinners or non-spinning things?
Driving bouncing, you know, the issue we had for few builds now


The blur cylinder collider is no longer added to anything labeled as a wheel.  I probably need to change that to anything that has rubber on its farthest edge.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 25, 2019, 05:05:20 PM

Also one idea for the damage, maybe instead of the whole part falling off, sides (basically each side mesh of a cube, for an example) fall off?


You got it!  That’s the whole idea behind the rework of the damage system.  In the 20AUGUST build, when you select a material for a face, you are actually affecting a 3D armor plate with thickness.  The next step is to make it possible to break the plate off.  So instead of the chassis having hit points, you break off the sodes of the chassis to expose the electronics and motors underneath.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 25, 2019, 05:18:23 PM
Yeah the 20th August bleeding edge version. I have to delete the file and re-extract every time I use it otherwise the menu buttons get a case of stage fright. It doesn’t look like Kix is having this problem so at least it’s not a universal problem.

What's your resolution out of interest? Far as I'm aware there wasn't any difference in the menu UI between these builds, did you have this issue on the Itch.io build also?

Using full screen - 1680x1050 resolution. Never had the issue on any previous versions of the game. The buttons are visible but don’t do anything (I have to alt tab to close the game, can’t access settings, workshop or battle mode etc).

Shoot!  I’ll try to take a look tonight.  Mac or PC?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 25, 2019, 05:47:09 PM

Another idea. For the Momentary Switch for the burst motors, maybe have a second or 2 of delay after you press the button and release it the moment after, because currently they retract too fast

Hmm.  Maybe a user-configurable delay?  Motors respond instantly when voltage is applied, so the delay would be in software...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 25, 2019, 09:40:17 PM
Yeah the 20th August bleeding edge version. I have to delete the file and re-extract every time I use it otherwise the menu buttons get a case of stage fright. It doesn’t look like Kix is having this problem so at least it’s not a universal problem.

What's your resolution out of interest? Far as I'm aware there wasn't any difference in the menu UI between these builds, did you have this issue on the Itch.io build also?

Using full screen - 1680x1050 resolution. Never had the issue on any previous versions of the game. The buttons are visible but don’t do anything (I have to alt tab to close the game, can’t access settings, workshop or battle mode etc).

I'm not having any luck replicating the problem on my Mac in either the built version or the editor.  I can try my Windows laptop tomorrow.

If you don't mind:

1. What kind of computer are you using?
2. What kind of GPU are you using?
3. What operating system are you using?

I can try making another build to see if it fixes the problem.  The symptoms are so strange, and I have absolutely no idea what we might have changed between 06AUGUST and 20AUGUST that would have caused the problem. 

Callum, is it possible that there is an issue with FMOD that is causing the buttons to not load?  Perhaps they are failing to find the necessary sounds assigned to the buttons, and so can't load the buttons themselves?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 26, 2019, 12:16:56 AM
Tbh i can say that the resolutions are a bit... ****y at the moment. 1080p resolution has cutoff and black bars on sides, which indicantes that its using 16:10 format. This is false because 1080p is 16:9 resolution and should not have black bars
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 26, 2019, 08:13:53 AM
I think I may have found a bug. The newest version worked fine the first time I opened it however on the second time I now can’t select any buttons from the main menu.

Just tried opening it a few times on my Windows laptop.  Things seemed to work fine.

Maybe the next step is to put out a new build.  It is possible that something might have been corrupted during the build process.

I'll try to get a new build out on Thursday.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on August 27, 2019, 01:38:49 PM
I think I may have found a bug. The newest version worked fine the first time I opened it however on the second time I now can’t select any buttons from the main menu.

Just tried opening it a few times on my Windows laptop.  Things seemed to work fine.

Maybe the next step is to put out a new build.  It is possible that something might have been corrupted during the build process.

I'll try to get a new build out on Thursday.

So I think I’ve figured out what could be the issue as I’ve noticed my anti virus is deleting a certain file not long after I extract the folder. (Doesn’t tell me it’s done it either which is irritating). Bizarre that I’m still able to fully play the game once before it menu locks though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 29, 2019, 05:53:27 PM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

The latest versions are the 29AUGUST2019 builds.

This new build has very few upgrades.  Mostly I wanted to see if a new build would solve Arcane's problem.


Please note that these hinges are super-preliminary at this point.  Don't design your robots to rely on them, because they will definitely change, and may break your .RR2Bot file in future builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on August 30, 2019, 03:07:02 AM
YESS!! Can really use these hinges in some of my replica builds! (Both previous and upcoming).
Can't wait to try them out when I get home from work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 30, 2019, 04:38:45 AM
Ngl, hinges are fine, havent tested the axle yet
Maybe add a rotation limit on the hinge?

NOTE: What i have noticed in the last few builds, my gpu is running constantly at 100% while playing this game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 30, 2019, 06:17:39 AM
Ngl, hinges are fine, havent tested the axle yet
Maybe add a rotation limit on the hinge?

NOTE: What i have noticed in the last few builds, my gpu is running constantly at 100% while playing this game

Hmmm.  We will need to figure this out.  I noticed that my Windows laptop is getting random freezes, and was wondering if this was GPU related.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 30, 2019, 09:05:47 AM
Ngl, hinges are fine, havent tested the axle yet
Maybe add a rotation limit on the hinge?

NOTE: What i have noticed in the last few builds, my gpu is running constantly at 100% while playing this game

Hmmm.  We will need to figure this out.  I noticed that my Windows laptop is getting random freezes, and was wondering if this was GPU related.
I also did experience minor infrequent stutters
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 31, 2019, 05:31:17 AM
I tried to attach a spinner to a hinge and built something like Monsoon. The spinner doesn't really hit the opponent and is a bit Buggy. Just a small minor thing.
I also have noticed, that the background music is overlapping. When I go in the botlab, the title screen music and the botlab music play at the same time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 31, 2019, 05:42:15 AM
I tried to attach a spinner to a hinge and built something like Monsoon. The spinner doesn't really hit the opponent and is a bit Buggy. Just a small minor thing.
I also have noticed, that the background music is overlapping. When I go in the botlab, the title screen music and the botlab music play at the same time.

Just remove music haha


Also maybe add FPS limiter?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on August 31, 2019, 07:59:47 AM
I’ve noticed that when you attach a Spinning weapon to either a second motor, a piston, or a hinge, the weapon just glitches and phases through everything. Might want to check it out. It’s been like this for the past few updates from what I’ve seen.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on August 31, 2019, 12:22:18 PM
I don't know what's wrong with the music. Sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's overlapping.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 31, 2019, 09:22:33 PM
I tried to attach a spinner to a hinge and built something like Monsoon. The spinner doesn't really hit the opponent and is a bit Buggy. Just a small minor thing.
I also have noticed, that the background music is overlapping. When I go in the botlab, the title screen music and the botlab music play at the same time.

Thank you for noticing it.  I haven’t done much testing with multiple chained hinge joints to see how it would affect a spinner collider.  It needs to work well — I will try it this week.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 01, 2019, 06:19:23 AM
I tried to attach a spinner to a hinge and built something like Monsoon. The spinner doesn't really hit the opponent and is a bit Buggy. Just a small minor thing.
I also have noticed, that the background music is overlapping. When I go in the botlab, the title screen music and the botlab music play at the same time.

Thank you for noticing it.  I haven’t done much testing with multiple chained hinge joints to see how it would affect a spinner collider.  It needs to work well — I will try it this week.
Great! I will be able to make Monsoon ripoffs!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Witherana on September 03, 2019, 01:03:40 AM
Hey, ive tried a tantrum design and the spinner kinda like doesnt spin up. Also ive found out that my spinners stop easily on impact and i dont like that. Also i would love to see a motor with allot of torque so you can spin like massive deep six clones up to a good speed. And maybe a motor that does like 10000 rpm but has like not allot of power.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 03, 2019, 06:40:31 PM
Hey, ive tried a tantrum design and the spinner kinda like doesnt spin up. Also ive found out that my spinners stop easily on impact and i dont like that. Also i would love to see a motor with allot of torque so you can spin like massive deep six clones up to a good speed. And maybe a motor that does like 10000 rpm but has like not allot of power.

Have you tried using a pulley?  None of the larger motors have any gearing.  It might take some tweaking, but you should be able to get a weapon that spins up.

Also, make sure your weapon doesn’t rest on the floor.

Lastly, no motors in existence could get a Deep Six sized weapon up to 10,000 RPM.  At that RPM, the weapon would be supersonic.  I have modeled this in game by increasing air drag exponentially as you approach Mach 1.  Edit:  We did put in an ME0708.  It has about as much power as you are going to see in a heavyweight.  You can gear it for high torque with pulleys or chains, but you will be trading off top speed when you do it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 05, 2019, 07:49:35 AM
I would like the rack - and pinion Piston to be less powerful. I built an axe bot using this and it jumps up really high, when it fires the axe.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 05, 2019, 09:34:29 AM
I would like the rack - and pinion Piston to be less powerful. I built an axe bot using this and it jumps up really high, when it fires the axe.

I think systems like those are still in development. The same pretty much happens with the hinged actuator.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 05, 2019, 12:56:19 PM
I would like the rack - and pinion Piston to be less powerful. I built an axe bot using this and it jumps up really high, when it fires the axe.

I think systems like those are still in development. The same pretty much happens with the hinged actuator.

Yup.  I haven’t done the math on any of the rotating actuators yet.  Time for some research....
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 05, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

This one is called 05September2019, and contains the following minor updates:


If you are feeling spicy, give it a shot and let us know what you think!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 05, 2019, 04:15:13 PM
Tried the new build and...

  • Eliminated a source of garbage in the miniscript handler we built for the game (not in Miniscript itself!).  This should reduce stuttering due to garbage collection for user-created robots.  kix, I believe this is the source of the jankiness you were seeing for the past few builds.  Let me know if it is still there!
Stuttering is gone, fps is as is, i limited it and it doesnt affect the physics

  • Removed the really annoying cyan-tinted albedo texture from steel and aluminum.  This should make it easier to match colors.

Thank god XD


  • Reduced friction on all physics materials except for rubber.  Hopefully this makes robots easier to drive and more realistic.  Please let me know if things can slide easily enough.  I can reduce friction a little more if it is necessary.

Yeah no, bots still bounce. Maybe its not the friction of materials, Try using the pit floor stats on the arena floor

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/619279335244824576/unknown.png)
  • Eliminated the ability to break off objects.  This is in preparation for the new damage system which will break off armor plates instead.

About that...
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/619277232132849705/unknown.png)

I guess pulleys are not fixed

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 05, 2019, 04:26:57 PM
Brilliant work on getting updates out to us in good timing.
Few things after playing the new update:

-Game feels a little bit less sluggish. Laptop doesn't heat up as much now lol.
-YES. C'MON GEARBOXES!!!
-Cyan tint is now gone and it is BEAUTIFUL. As a replica builder, it is highly welcomed.
-The friction has definitely been reduced at points. The practice box is now like driving in an ice rink. The test arena is definitely still quite high in friction for my bots that have back ended wheels. (Eruption, Apollo, Firestorm, ect.) I have found though that adding a sphere to the free axel to make a ball caster helps massively though. Idea for a new feature? Agree with Kix though about the pit floor.
Talking about the pit floor though - I have found that when AI bots drive over the closed pit, they then take to driving in endless circles like they've lost all other bots and dunno where to go? It's not until I push them away off of it that they go back to fighting normally.
-Not sure what was stopped from breaking.... I find that pulley systems still break off quite easily. It's good in some cases but when some of my bots near enough fully rely on what's attached to the pulley, it can be annoying (full body spinners, for example).

It's good to see the game is constantly evolving though. Keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on September 05, 2019, 04:45:36 PM
I haven't played around with the new build too much yet but I have noticed a quality of life downgrade whereby if you resize a component that has other components attached/linked to it, then it moves all the attached components by a large amount and often in different directions as opposed to moving them a small fraction like it used it in previous builds.

Basically makes resizing components a re-positioning nightmare.

The gearboxes sounds brilliant though, as always with these updates I'm really excited to see where this game goes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on September 06, 2019, 04:35:04 AM
I haven't played around with the new build too much yet but I have noticed a quality of life downgrade whereby if you resize a component that has other components attached/linked to it, then it moves all the attached components by a large amount and often in different directions as opposed to moving them a small fraction like it used it in previous builds.

Basically makes resizing components a re-positioning nightmare.

The gearboxes sounds brilliant though, as always with these updates I'm really excited to see where this game goes.

Oh darn, in what situation does the scaling problems occur? Could you send the bot as well? So I can see exactly what situation you are having problems with.
Might have messed that up when I reworked a part of the code to reduce redundancy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Witherana on September 06, 2019, 05:40:27 AM
Hey, ive tried a tantrum design and the spinner kinda like doesnt spin up. Also ive found out that my spinners stop easily on impact and i dont like that. Also i would love to see a motor with allot of torque so you can spin like massive deep six clones up to a good speed. And maybe a motor that does like 10000 rpm but has like not allot of power.

Have you tried using a pulley?  None of the larger motors have any gearing.  It might take some tweaking, but you should be able to get a weapon that spins up.

Also, make sure your weapon doesn’t rest on the floor.

Lastly, no motors in existence could get a Deep Six sized weapon up to 10,000 RPM.  At that RPM, the weapon would be supersonic.  I have modeled this in game by increasing air drag exponentially as you approach Mach 1.  Edit:  We did put in an ME0708.  It has about as much power as you are going to see in a heavyweight.  You can gear it for high torque with pulleys or chains, but you will be trading off top speed when you do it.

I did use a pulley but it like is glitch. It spins at like 1 rpm ans says the max rpm is 0. I think the game just doesnt like it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2019, 06:15:26 AM
Hmm.  It shouldn’t glitch like that.  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file so I can take a look to see why the weapon won’t spin?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on September 06, 2019, 06:22:03 AM
I haven't played around with the new build too much yet but I have noticed a quality of life downgrade whereby if you resize a component that has other components attached/linked to it, then it moves all the attached components by a large amount and often in different directions as opposed to moving them a small fraction like it used it in previous builds.

Basically makes resizing components a re-positioning nightmare.

The gearboxes sounds brilliant though, as always with these updates I'm really excited to see where this game goes.

Oh darn, in what situation does the scaling problems occur? Could you send the bot as well? So I can see exactly what situation you are having problems with.
Might have messed that up when I reworked a part of the code to reduce redundancy.

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

All the component were lined up in place on this Basilisk replica, I clicked on the one part of the flipper panel to make it 0.05 wider and any attached components (and even some non attached) repositioned themselves in a clump together. In the past it would only slightly move any attached component out of alignment by 0.1 whereas this build of the game is drastically moving pieces around.

It’s not limited to just one bot either as it’s been a repeatable issue on any bot I try to amend in this latest build.

I can send you over a bot file once I’m back home if it’s of any help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on September 07, 2019, 07:39:50 AM
I haven't played around with the new build too much yet but I have noticed a quality of life downgrade whereby if you resize a component that has other components attached/linked to it, then it moves all the attached components by a large amount and often in different directions as opposed to moving them a small fraction like it used it in previous builds.

Basically makes resizing components a re-positioning nightmare.

The gearboxes sounds brilliant though, as always with these updates I'm really excited to see where this game goes.

Oh darn, in what situation does the scaling problems occur? Could you send the bot as well? So I can see exactly what situation you are having problems with.
Might have messed that up when I reworked a part of the code to reduce redundancy.

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

All the component were lined up in place on this Basilisk replica, I clicked on the one part of the flipper panel to make it 0.05 wider and any attached components (and even some non attached) repositioned themselves in a clump together. In the past it would only slightly move any attached component out of alignment by 0.1 whereas this build of the game is drastically moving pieces around.

It’s not limited to just one bot either as it’s been a repeatable issue on any bot I try to amend in this latest build.

I can send you over a bot file once I’m back home if it’s of any help.

Yes, if possible send the bot file, I would be able to better check exactly what's going on.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on September 07, 2019, 09:09:11 AM
Ok, I fixed the problem that caused the messed up position of components while scaling.
In future builds, scaling should be like in previous builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on September 07, 2019, 10:11:06 AM
Talking about the pit floor though - I have found that when AI bots drive over the closed pit, they then take to driving in endless circles like they've lost all other bots and dunno where to go? It's not until I push them away off of it that they go back to fighting normally.

This sounds like an issue with hazard detection/avoidance. They might be treating the closed pit as a hazard area, and then panicking once they're on top of it, because they know to avoid hazard areas but don't know what to do when inside one...? Idk, just spitballing. Certainly needs to be looked into.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 07, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
Talking about the pit floor though - I have found that when AI bots drive over the closed pit, they then take to driving in endless circles like they've lost all other bots and dunno where to go? It's not until I push them away off of it that they go back to fighting normally.

This sounds like an issue with hazard detection/avoidance. They might be treating the closed pit as a hazard area, and then panicking once they're on top of it, because they know to avoid hazard areas but don't know what to do when inside one...? Idk, just spitballing. Certainly needs to be looked into.
This is actually an issue since 2.01 build

Another thing that should be looked into is the damage. If a spinner hits a weapon/wheel on an axle it will:
-Do its thing and send the bot flying
-Lose weapon momentum completely like hitting a wall

Latter happens most of the time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 08, 2019, 06:41:04 AM
I played the new bleeding build and 2 WD robots are still a bit hard to drive. Can you reduce the friction more?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 08, 2019, 07:55:01 AM
I played the new bleeding build and 2 WD robots are still a bit hard to drive. Can you reduce the friction more?
Its really not friction as its the floor having terrible stats, try driving 2wd bots over the pit and you will see that they are driving good
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KingofKings696 on September 10, 2019, 02:03:43 PM
Goofing around tries putting 90 hinge on spinner to see if I could get the teeth to still hit but flex to keep spun up better and it still causes the same issue I was having before with overheads and having no rpm for some reason
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 11, 2019, 04:18:35 PM
Few things you should consider doing:
The arena floor ofc, but thats sorted as far as i know?
Check the 3inch wheels, they glitch out
This could be an idea:
https://youtu.be/2AJ5nH_1zwg
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on September 11, 2019, 06:09:01 PM
A few ideas:
- tutorial. I’ve been planning on making one for yt but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Maybe have one built into the game when it gets released? From what I’ve seen, A Heap Of Games along with others have no clue how to build anything.
- Chassis list. Maybe have multiple pre-made options for chassis along with the build-your-own option could definitely make it more user-friendly.
-Flamethrowers. Because why not?
- Decals. Obviously, the painter will need to be useable first, but decals would definitely be a nice edition.
- visual damage. Robot Champions’ visual damage gives me wet dreams, and I feel others would say the same.
- timed matches. It’s annoying to see a five minute ai push battle. Obviously would need a judging system.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 12, 2019, 10:40:56 AM
A few ideas:
- tutorial. I’ve been planning on making one for yt but haven’t gotten around to it yet. Maybe have one built into the game when it gets released? From what I’ve seen, A Heap Of Games along with others have no clue how to build anything.
- Chassis list. Maybe have multiple pre-made options for chassis along with the build-your-own option could definitely make it more user-friendly.
-Flamethrowers. Because why not?
- Decals. Obviously, the painter will need to be useable first, but decals would definitely be a nice edition.
- visual damage. Robot Champions’ visual damage gives me wet dreams, and I feel others would say the same.
- timed matches. It’s annoying to see a five minute ai push battle. Obviously would need a judging system.
Those are some great Ideas! I have another one: I would like to power a weapon with multiple motors like a lot of the builders at Battlebots do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 12, 2019, 03:27:37 PM
Just put the finishing touches on a few bug fixes.  I should be able to push them to bleeding edge builds tomorrow once Cloud Build is done:

1. Fixed the floor surface friction coefficient for all arenas.
2. Fixed OOTA not being called by any robots.
3. Fixed the Bugglebots pit glitches.
4. Fixed the scaling problem that Arcane pointed out a few posts back.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 12, 2019, 04:06:29 PM
Just put the finishing touches on a few bug fixes.  I should be able to push them to bleeding edge builds tomorrow once Cloud Build is done:

1. Fixed the floor surface friction coefficient for all arenas.
2. Fixed OOTA not being called by any robots.
3. Fixed the Bugglebots pit glitches.
4. Fixed the scaling problem that Arcane pointed out a few posts back.

Axles are also fixed to be non breakable on belts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 12, 2019, 07:10:00 PM
Just put the finishing touches on a few bug fixes.  I should be able to push them to bleeding edge builds tomorrow once Cloud Build is done:

1. Fixed the floor surface friction coefficient for all arenas.
2. Fixed OOTA not being called by any robots.
3. Fixed the Bugglebots pit glitches.
4. Fixed the scaling problem that Arcane pointed out a few posts back.

Axles are also fixed to be non breakable on belts?

Not yet.  I will try to squeeze it in tomorrow morning if I can.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on September 12, 2019, 07:11:19 PM
Flame?  heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 13, 2019, 11:17:39 AM
Did you guys added component damage again?
The disc of a bot fell out and after i hit it, bot lost hp

EDIT: Tested it and after certain hits, HP of the component goes to 0 and hits after that damage the chassis
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2019, 02:56:39 PM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

The latest versions are the 13SEPTEMBER2019 builds.

This new build has the fixes described a few posts back:

1. Bug Fix - Set the floor surface physics material back to "Steel" for all arenas.  It was inadvertently set to "rubber" a few builds ago when I was playing with different forms of collision detection in an attempt to optimize CPU usage.
2. Bug Fix - Fixed OOTA not being called by any robots.
3. Bug Fix - Fixed the Bugglebots pit glitches.
4. Bug Fix - Fixed the scaling problem that Arcane pointed out a few posts back.

I haven't had a chance to look at the breakability of spinning components yet, but I wanted to make sure you guys had all of the bug fixes in place over the weekend.

Now that the arena surfaces are back to being steel (they were inadvertently set to be "rubber"), everything feels a little slippery to me, especially the version of Mental Breakdown I got from kix, which was already incredibly responsive even with rubber floors.  Mental Breakdown feels almost uncontrollably fast with the keyboard. 

How do you guys feel about the friction coefficient of the steel floors combined with a steel chassis?  Too slippery?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on September 13, 2019, 02:58:43 PM
You should probably increase the friction, as you decreased it before when you were trying to fix the floor issue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2019, 03:04:13 PM
Did you guys added component damage again?
The disc of a bot fell out and after i hit it, bot lost hp

EDIT: Tested it and after certain hits, HP of the component goes to 0 and hits after that damage the chassis

I haven't done much with damage.  I wanted to get driving to be stable first.

Let me know if you guys think driving feels good.  If so, I'll start working on damage.  If not, lets get driving to the point where it feels great first.



I think the damage strategy is going to be as follows:

1. Comment out all existing damage code.  We should start with a blank slate, with all robots being completely invincible.
2. Add damage types back in one at a time. 
3. Each time we add a new damage type we will put out a bleeding edge build for testing.  If it feels good, we'll keep it.  If it feels bad, we'll remove it.  If it doesn't make any difference at all to game feel, then we'll remove it.  Complicated = bad.  Fewer damage types = good.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 13, 2019, 03:54:46 PM
Feedback from playing the new build:

-The Bugglebots arena pit is fixed. Yay! Although now I do find bots get caught on it easily if they have a wedge. And some of them when they do tend to bounce away from it (like a pinball buffer).

-Scaling problem has been fixed. Thank god!

-The OOTA are now being registered. Now to make the bots know that they don't need to go near those areas or follow a robot once they've been eliminated! But baby steps, eh?

-The arena floor is interesting. In some cases, it is really good. Previously my Eruption replica would just barely move or turn, now it is actually mobile. But then there's other bots who have turned into Robot Combat on Ice (watching Diotoir fight was.... entertaining). To be honest I feel like half of that could be down to some bits being too fast - something the gearboxes or some new motors could fix. In my honest opinion, if there was some kind of 'purgatory' material between Rubber and Steel, then that would be perfect, otherwise I'd say the steel is miles better. If anything, it challenges our driving - just like the real robots do! (They are a serious bitch to drive lol).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 13, 2019, 04:09:17 PM
Let me know if you guys think driving feels good.  If so, I'll start working on damage.  If not, lets get driving to the point where it feels great first.
The Driving is almost perfect. I am certainly sure that you need to add friction tho. A lot of it, currently everything is too slidey

I think the damage strategy is going to be as follows:

1. Comment out all existing damage code.  We should start with a blank slate, with all robots being completely invincible.
2. Add damage types back in one at a time. 
3. Each time we add a new damage type we will put out a bleeding edge build for testing.  If it feels good, we'll keep it.  If it feels bad, we'll remove it.  If it doesn't make any difference at all to game feel, then we'll remove it.  Complicated = bad.  Fewer damage types = good.
1. Deffo make the chassis damagable. Maybe add an option where a component can be damagable or not for temporary time until you add proper damage?
2,3 i agree
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 14, 2019, 08:59:11 AM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

The latest versions are the 14SEPTEMBER2019 builds.

Two things for this build:

1. [Bug Fix] Eliminated Depth of Field postprocessing effect.  This was causing excessive blur in the robot workshop when working on beetleweight robots.
2. [Tweaked] Adjusted friction coefficients to the following:

Aluminum: 0.4
Polycarbonate: 0.2
Rubber: 0.9
Steel: 0.3
UHMW: 0.05
MDF: 0.3

With this fix, friction coefficients are pretty close to their real-life values.  Robots should now skid much more believably.

Let me know if driving feels good with the 14SEPTEMBER build.  If so, we can finally start working on damage.  :gunz:

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 14, 2019, 11:17:40 AM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

The latest versions are the 14SEPTEMBER2019 builds.

Two things for this build:

1. [Bug Fix] Eliminated Depth of Field postprocessing effect.  This was causing excessive blur in the robot workshop when working on beetleweight robots.
2. [Tweaked] Adjusted friction coefficients to the following:

Aluminum: 0.4
Polycarbonate: 0.2
Rubber: 0.9
Steel: 0.3
UHMW: 0.05
MDF: 0.3

With this fix, friction coefficients are pretty close to their real-life values.  Robots should now skid much more believably.

Let me know if driving feels good with the 14SEPTEMBER build.  If so, we can finally start working on damage.  :gunz:



Ok so...
Friction is amazing, its working perfeclty
As for the damage... Maybe add a button where you can make a component invincible? That would be great for battles, also not a bad thing before the damage stuff gets added, because fully invincible bots are eh in my opinion
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on September 14, 2019, 01:08:05 PM
Okay...
First off- you improved the game immensely.

Only thing is- I built an itty bitty vs, and this weird “bubble” formed around the weapon, and caused the bot to flip around the arena. It didn’t do that with any pulleys attached to it, but when I directly added the spinner on to the motor shaft, uh oh.

This shouldn’t be too big of a fix... It’s just a minor that needs tweaking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 14, 2019, 01:18:06 PM
Only thing is- I built an itty bitty vs, and this weird “bubble” formed around the weapon, and caused the bot to flip around the arena. It didn’t do that with any pulleys attached to it, but when I directly added the spinner on to the motor shaft, uh oh.

This shouldn’t be too big of a fix... It’s just a minor that needs tweaking.

Drat.  Was this a custom shape you used for the weapon?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 14, 2019, 05:02:09 PM
Opinion from new build:

Driving? Perfect.

Blur when zoomed? Perfect.

My only thing to report is when I did a few test matches, my first two where between my Thor & Kan Opener replicas, and the first two fights lasted maybe like 30 seconds, then it would spaz (the spinner in the test arena would do that thing from a few builds back where materials where black with a white glow) and then throw me back to the main screen. But after the third replay with them, it was absolutely fine, as was all other test fights.

Cannot wait for damage to be fixed next!! :D
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on September 14, 2019, 05:28:26 PM
Seconding Wham. Driving feels great in the new patch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 15, 2019, 08:48:49 AM
This new build is the best, you have ever released. I think, that you're done with all the bug fixing good job! Maybe focus on some of the work in progress stuff next?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 15, 2019, 09:09:48 AM
Thanks for all of your feedback!  I think we will push this one out as an official stable release on itch.io, then start work on the new features.  Any last requests before then?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 15, 2019, 09:38:07 AM
Thanks for all of your feedback!  I think we will push this one out as an official stable release on itch.io, then start work on the new features.  Any last requests before then?

-A few more shapes for use in Extra's & Weapons - mainly a ring and Taurus (to create wheel tyres) and maybe some letters?
-A flatter spin motor
-Some smaller motors & burst for featherweights (and the burst to be useable as a lifting burst for the heavys)

But they might just be more work in progress aha ;P xD

Otherwise, my only other thing to mention would be that the pit in the Bugglebots arena doesn't descend. That would be it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 15, 2019, 09:44:34 AM
option to make parts indestructible
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 15, 2019, 09:47:04 AM
Thanks for all of your feedback!  I think we will push this one out as an official stable release on itch.io, then start work on the new features.  Any last requests before then?

-A few more shapes for use in Extra's & Weapons - mainly a ring and Taurus (to create wheel tyres) and maybe some letters?
-A flatter spin motor
-Some smaller motors & burst for featherweights (and the burst to be useable as a lifting burst for the heavys)

But they might just be more work in progress aha ;P xD

Otherwise, my only other thing to mention would be that the pit in the Bugglebots arena doesn't descend. That would be it.

I wasn’t planning to do any new shapes or features for this stable release, just bug fixes.  Everything above requires testing and tweaking.

The pit should be fixed though.  It has a swinging mechanism, rather than the descent mechanism of the full sized arena.  I was thinking that I should probably tweak the Bugglebots pit floor to make it smoother though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on September 15, 2019, 09:47:30 AM
-A few more shapes for use in Extra's & Weapons - mainly a ring and Taurus (to create wheel tyres) and maybe some letters?
Yes to the ring and torus, but a hard no on the letters. I've been playing Automation for a few years, and when you put make/model names on the back of your car, you have to manually position each letter and try and get the sizes and spacings exactly right, and it's a colossal pain in the ass. I'd much prefer the ability to position a text box on one of the robot's faces and then type in the text. Much easier.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 15, 2019, 09:50:45 AM
option to make parts indestructible

Oof.  This one is hard.  It will require working on the backend code as well as coming up with the UI on the front end.  Then it will need testing.

Is it worth it if it takes a few more weeks/months?  I don’t imagine that we would want this in the released game...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 15, 2019, 09:58:54 AM
is it just my version that has bubblegum spazz around? And both Crab bots just sliding over the arenafloor? and Manta killing itself by exploding sometimes? There has happend too much in this thread to read it all and to be up to date with known bugs and glitches. As of now it feels like there are 4 heavys working as intended with Faust, Earthquake, TR3 and Royal Bobby

Idk if I patched the game correctly with the latest fix. I was using the August 29 version and just pasted all the stuff in the folder with the same name like you did with RA2 back in the day
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 15, 2019, 10:08:33 AM
Thanks for all of your feedback!  I think we will push this one out as an official stable release on itch.io, then start work on the new features.  Any last requests before then?
My requests are: letters as shapes, being able to power a spinner with multiple motors and CAD support.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 15, 2019, 10:10:00 AM
Thanks for all of your feedback!  I think we will push this one out as an official stable release on itch.io, then start work on the new features.  Any last requests before then?

-A few more shapes for use in Extra's & Weapons - mainly a ring and Taurus (to create wheel tyres) and maybe some letters?
-A flatter spin motor
-Some smaller motors & burst for featherweights (and the burst to be useable as a lifting burst for the heavys)

But they might just be more work in progress aha ;P xD

Otherwise, my only other thing to mention would be that the pit in the Bugglebots arena doesn't descend. That would be it.
Defenitely some good ideas!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 15, 2019, 10:26:25 AM
option to make parts indestructible

Oof.  This one is hard.  It will require working on the backend code as well as coming up with the UI on the front end.  Then it will need testing.

Is it worth it if it takes a few more weeks/months?  I don’t imagine that we would want this in the released game...

Maybe add a tick option when you select a part in the materials section? It should not be that extra difficult to add indestructibility so yeah, few weeks/month is gucci, ofc we dont want to have this in final release because by then we will have functional damage i guess
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 15, 2019, 11:12:13 AM
is it just my version that has bubblegum spazz around? And both Crab bots just sliding over the arenafloor? and Manta killing itself by exploding sometimes? There has happend too much in this thread to read it all and to be up to date with known bugs and glitches. As of now it feels like there are 4 heavys working as intended with Faust, Earthquake, TR3 and Royal Bobby

Idk if I patched the game correctly with the latest fix. I was using the August 29 version and just pasted all the stuff in the folder with the same name like you did with RA2 back in the day

Oh no!  Sorry about that!  We don’t have a patching system in place right now.  I’m not sure what effects you will get when using the method you used.  The latest version is the 14SEPTEMBER.

As far as the premade robots go, you are correct.  I haven’t done any tweaking at all.  They are all built from scratch outside of the botlab, and require manual tuning.  It will probably take a few days to go through each of them to make sure they drive properly.

Bubblegum is my personal nightmare.  So much mass spinning so quickly makes it extremely hard to tune.

For some reason Beetle Crab (and the Crabsolutely to a lesser extent) is also posing a problem.  I think it is due to artifacts caused by the long massive arms tugging on the relatively smaller body.  I’m honestly at a loss right now on how to fix it, but I think getting floor friction sorted out will remove at least one variable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 15, 2019, 11:15:14 AM
I did it that way cause there was no .exe I could use. It worked fine I think as driving felt better than I remember. Only tested Faust tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 15, 2019, 03:51:20 PM
Literally just remembered - I do have maybe one useful request, which is to have some of the functions in the bot lab useable with keyboard shortcuts - so like,
Single Copy: C
Multi Copy: D
Delete: Del
Move: M
Rotate: R
Scale: S

I feel like doing that would make working on robots a lot more streamlined.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 19, 2019, 08:55:55 PM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

The latest versions are the 17SEPTEMBER2019 builds.

[Added] Gearboxes!  They take up a fair amount of space right now, but they should work.

This build is a stable build release candidate.  If the gearboxes have issues, we will release the 14September builds as the newest stable builds.  Our next step is reworking damage, which will involve breaking  A LOT of things.  This will be the last stable build before we start down this new path.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 19, 2019, 11:26:31 PM
New Bleeding Edge Test Build is out!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

The latest versions are the 17SEPTEMBER2019 builds.

[Added] Gearboxes!  They take up a fair amount of space right now, but they should work.

This build is a stable build release candidate.  If the gearboxes have issues, we will release the 14September builds as the newest stable builds.  Our next step is reworking damage, which will involve breaking  A LOT of things.  This will be the last stable build before we start down this new path.

Well now that gearboxes are added i am obliged to test this when im home.
I do have few gripes with stuff
-This has been an issue since early days but, i really dislike the material surfaces, only exception is steel. Problem occurs when you stretch out a component to be very wide, and if its stretched out, the texture is stretched out too. Solution would be to make everything smooth like metal
- Another thing is inability to get white on all materials except UHMW. Idk how would it be fixed tho, because if we have the same colour but diff materials how would we differentiate them? Maybe different intensity of shine for each material
-Muting music never worked too. I have been able to remove music by deleting a file, but otherwise whenever i lower it down, and exit to menu, music turns on back
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on September 20, 2019, 07:30:32 AM
No flat motor yet?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 20, 2019, 08:02:11 AM
No flat motor yet?

Not yet.  Our modeler is super busy with their day job ATM.

At this point we are trying to focus on getting the codebase up to speed.  Once all the code pieces are in place we should be able to shift over to creating content.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on September 20, 2019, 08:27:49 AM
No flat motor yet?

Not yet.  Our modeler is super busy with their day job ATM.

At this point we are trying to focus on getting the codebase up to speed.  Once all the code pieces are in place we should be able to shift over to creating content.
Lmao. For a second I thought you meant that your modeler is an actual ATM. Anyways, hope all goes well with everything!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on September 20, 2019, 04:27:39 PM
After playing the new build, I would happily say the gearboxes are perfect!! Brilliant work!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 20, 2019, 09:56:29 PM
Just released the 17September build as a stable alpha build on itch.io:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

Here's the rundown of things we have done since the last stable build on 06August.  Please note that this stable build is the exact same build as the 17September bleeding edge build.

[Added] Added gearboxes.  They take up a fair amount of space right now, but they should work.
[Added] Added Date/Timestamp on main menu.  This should make isolating problems by build easier.
[Added] Added a free rotating hinge and a 90 degree hinge to "Extras" tab in bot lab.
[Added] Reworked the component placement restrictions: 1. Invalid placements are shown in red. 2. You can't attach components to electronics or batteries, unless you are placing electronics or batteries. 3. You can't attach components to motors/pistons/actuator bodies, only to the axle/rod/etc.

[Removed] Began commenting out damage code in preparation for new damage system.
[Removed] Eliminated the mass reduction used to stabilize high speed spinners.  The result is that high mass/high speed spinners are significantly more likely to go crazy, launching your robot around the arena.  Gyroscopic effects are now significant, and so are the effects due to the discrete nature of the physics engine (a.k.a. physics "explosions").  It doesn't nerf the damage in any way.  It just makes spinners harder to control.

[Bug Fix] Set all arena floors to Steel.  This should make driving and steering all robots significantly easier.
[Bug Fix] Eliminated Depth of Field postprocessing effect.  This was causing excessive blur in the robot workshop when working on beetleweight robots.
[Bug Fix] Fixed out of the arena not being called for all robots.
[Bug Fix] Fixed Bugglebots Arena pit glitches.
[Bug Fix] Reduced AI memory garbage creation.

[Tweaked] Removed cyan tints for steel and aluminum.
[Tweaked] Adjusted friction coefficients to the following:

Aluminum: 0.4
Polycarbonate: 0.2
Rubber: 0.9
Steel: 0.3
UHMW: 0.05
MDF: 0.3
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on September 23, 2019, 10:31:24 AM
You have done areally good job, getting all of this working well. Can't wait to see the new damage system!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Oglington Rinseworthy on September 30, 2019, 03:24:07 AM
Question: I am currently half way through building a fairly part heavy design and I seem to have reached a point where I am unable to make anymore custom parts. Is this an intentional limit or is it a bug? if it is a bug has anyone found a way round it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 30, 2019, 03:41:11 AM
Im pretty sure it's a bug. I remember making a bot with 3 parts, and i couldn't make a 4th custom one
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Oglington Rinseworthy on September 30, 2019, 03:51:14 AM
good to know im not alone. thanks
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on October 04, 2019, 06:32:00 AM
Question: I am currently half way through building a fairly part heavy design and I seem to have reached a point where I am unable to make anymore custom parts. Is this an intentional limit or is it a bug? if it is a bug has anyone found a way round it?

It's a bug, there isn't supposed to be a limit.
Can I have the robot file to find the cause of the problem?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Oglington Rinseworthy on October 04, 2019, 01:20:03 PM
Question: I am currently half way through building a fairly part heavy design and I seem to have reached a point where I am unable to make anymore custom parts. Is this an intentional limit or is it a bug? if it is a bug has anyone found a way round it?

It's a bug, there isn't supposed to be a limit.
Can I have the robot file to find the cause of the problem?

of, course you can. If its fixable can I have the copy back again please? really wanting to finish it.

Here:   [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Thank you
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 09, 2019, 01:58:47 PM
Whats up with the resolution? If i play at 1080p it looks like its 720p and with lot of aliasing, and if i play on 4k it also looks like 720p, but now with black birs on side, like its on a non widescreen format
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 11, 2019, 11:17:33 AM
New Bleeding Edge Build!

RR2-Windows-10October2019-Alpha-Build
RR2-MacOS-10October2019-Alpha-Build.app

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

[Added] Belts and chains can now be stacked.  The usable output axle will be the one on the last transmission component in the stack.
[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem when saving a custom shape.  Sometimes an ID was assigned that was already in use which didn't allow the shape to be saved.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 11, 2019, 11:21:10 AM
Whats up with the resolution? If i play at 1080p it looks like its 720p and with lot of aliasing, and if i play on 4k it also looks like 720p, but now with black birs on side, like its on a non widescreen format

Hmm... We shouldn't have changed anything recently with screen resolutions.  Is this a recent change?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 11, 2019, 12:13:58 PM
It has been an issue for a while now, but recently, 4k is now gone to sh**
EDIT: Windowed mode apparently runs at full res
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on October 13, 2019, 07:43:22 AM
Greetings!  I've been following this game for a few months now and have tested several of the releases.  I really like the way things have come along.  There's been a huge improvement over weapon impacts and driving.  I'm looking forward to more damage effects making it in.

I really love how open-ended customization is.  It's what I wish RA2 was from the beginning!  Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Saroder on October 13, 2019, 02:41:26 PM
Hello,
(My English is far from being really good so I'll do my best but if something I write can't be understood please let me know it, I'll try to make it clearer...)

List of a few annoying bugs or missing things developers and testers should know.

In the lab :
-There are pistons but in "power/tanks" it's empty.
-When you select an item in order to modify a robot, you don't see it's name anywhere (the name of the selected part) so you can't know what it was if you don't know it yet...
-New testers can't (at list with 17 September alpha release) select any robot and start a battle without creating by hand the empty directory C:\Users\User\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Robots
-Robots you put in this directory (C:\Users\User\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Robots) can be found but (maybe on purpose) you can't find built in robots anywhere (so it looks like there's a gas tank in Earthquakev1 but you cant edit a copy of the robot to use the tank...)
-About previous line, wouldn't you make possible to export a built in robot to .rr2bot file and more important, won't you make possible to save/export an item/part of a bot somewhere, like in "custom" items for example in order to use it in your own creations ?

In the arena :
It looks that hard crashes of (buggy) bots, when one would probably throw the other one on planet mars (or Jupiter) just bring you from the battle to main menu without any warning or explanation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 13, 2019, 04:50:33 PM
-Robots you put in this directory (C:\Users\User\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Robots) can be found but (maybe on purpose) you can't find built in robots anywhere (so it looks like there's a gas tank in Earthquakev1 but you cant edit a copy of the robot to use the tank...)
I think that devs are actually more interesting in perfecting stuff for user built bots, than prebuilt ones
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 13, 2019, 05:09:52 PM
Welcome, Saroder! I think I could answer some of these questions for you.
- the reason as to why there are no tanks is because it has not yet been incorporated into the game, as it is still in early development.
- More often than not, it’s fairly easy for most people to know what is what, so that is probably why it doesn’t show it.
- The directory is just for the bots that you’ve created. If you are needing some bots to use, I could send some files your way. You’ll just need to place them in said directory for it to work.
- The reason why you cant edit bots like Earthquake is because they were made via CAD software, iirc.
- You are able to import and export bot files, that is what the directory is for. On the other hand, we are not yet able to export custom components, but maybe in the future.
- Again, RR2 is in early development, so these crashes will likely become less frequent within the next few updates.
Hope you found this helpful
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Witherana on October 14, 2019, 02:43:18 AM
When will the menu's of the lava pit and warehouse arena's get updated?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 14, 2019, 08:57:34 PM
Just goona throw out three things I believe should be added/fixed within the next few updates:
- Flatmotors
- somewhat decent AI for flippers and hammers
- Fix the motor attached to a motor/piston/hinge glitch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on October 15, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
Just goona throw out three things I believe should be added/fixed within the next few updates:
- Flatmotors
- somewhat decent AI for flippers and hammers
- Fix the motor attached to a motor/piston/hinge glitch.
This glitch should be fixed. I want to build Clamping Blade.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 15, 2019, 08:59:09 AM
I kinda want for axle damage to be removed atm, at least temporarily
Its not fun when vital parts fall off, like wheels
also maybe hp buff for all parts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on October 17, 2019, 08:04:04 AM
A HP buff would defenitely be a good thing, because, if you have a lifter, the weapon can fall off very quickly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 18, 2019, 07:42:15 PM
I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX THE GLITCH!!! If you have a motor on a motor, attach a wheel to the second motor. Then you attach your weapon to the wheel. then BOOM! Now you have a saw bot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 19, 2019, 02:55:53 AM
I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX THE GLITCH!!! If you have a motor on a motor, attach a wheel to the second motor. Then you attach your weapon to the wheel. then BOOM! Now you have a saw bot.
I mean yeah, this is a nice fix, but its as nice as applying tape to the saw to hold it together
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on October 19, 2019, 05:48:55 AM
The wheel technique is good for actually making wheels that don't come up as spinners, but the thing about using wheels with weapons is that while the weapon is now indestructable, it no longer gets classed as a weapon and a wheel. I have tried this with a full body spinner, and it turned out when the shell was mounted to a wheel, if the bot hit anything the game thinks that it's wheels are taking damage and the robot will end up hurting itself in the process.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 19, 2019, 06:13:10 AM
The wheel technique is good for actually making wheels that don't come up as spinners, but the thing about using wheels with weapons is that while the weapon is now indestructable, it no longer gets classed as a weapon and a wheel. I have tried this with a full body spinner, and it turned out when the shell was mounted to a wheel, if the bot hit anything the game thinks that it's wheels are taking damage and the robot will end up hurting itself in the process.
Thats not the wheel issue, but its physics being janky af, if you make a flipper, and if it also reaches 0 hp, every flip after that will harm the bot itself

EDIT: Might have not read that properly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 19, 2019, 10:49:43 AM
The wheel technique is good for actually making wheels that don't come up as spinners, but the thing about using wheels with weapons is that while the weapon is now indestructable, it no longer gets classed as a weapon and a wheel. I have tried this with a full body spinner, and it turned out when the shell was mounted to a wheel, if the bot hit anything the game thinks that it's wheels are taking damage and the robot will end up hurting itself in the process.
Thats not the wheel issue, but its physics being janky af, if you make a flipper, and if it also reaches 0 hp, every flip after that will harm the bot itself

EDIT: Might have not read that properly
With the damage being stupid af, a good example of that would be Hell Spawn losing to Speed Demon. SD lost it’s weapon, but still won after HS gutted itself with its own weapon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 19, 2019, 11:08:53 AM
Okay so wheel does nothing, if a component is attached on a wheel that is attached on an axle, the part will fall off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on October 20, 2019, 05:50:21 PM
Here's the Panic Attack I'm having problems with. (Mentioned on the game page.)
I've left the srimech on just one gearbox so you can see the difference between that and the totally limp forks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 21, 2019, 02:51:06 PM
Here's the Panic Attack I'm having problems with. (Mentioned on the game page.)
I've left the srimech on just one gearbox so you can see the difference between that and the totally limp forks.

Taking a look at Panic Attack now.  I have set the gear ratios to be the same, and I see that the srimech rotates quickly, while the forks rotate more slowly.

Are you using the same motors for all of the actuators?  The same motors with the same gearboxes experiencing the same load should rotate at the same speed.  Any speed difference would be due to a difference in load.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on October 21, 2019, 05:32:58 PM
Here's the Panic Attack I'm having problems with. (Mentioned on the game page.)
I've left the srimech on just one gearbox so you can see the difference between that and the totally limp forks.

Taking a look at Panic Attack now.  I have set the gear ratios to be the same, and I see that the srimech rotates quickly, while the forks rotate more slowly.

Are you using the same motors for all of the actuators?  The same motors with the same gearboxes experiencing the same load should rotate at the same speed.  Any speed difference would be due to a difference in load.

Yeah, using Ampflow A40-300s on both. Even if I set the ratios on the double gearbox to add up to the same as the single gearbox (10-1 + 10-1 compared to 10-0.1) the double gearbox forks have more difficulty moving than the single, though because at that setting they move just as fast as the single box they have less time to show it and don't manage to drop much.

Based on taking the limp forks into battle and watching when they drop, it seems to happen whenever the extra load on the forks (the opponent) changes position on the forks, such as when they maneuver to attempt to escape.
As soon as the other bot slides even slightly - and the part of them in contact with the forks changes - the forks drop like their gearboxes became hinges.

Since I sent you the file, I've tried also putting the srimech on 2 gearboxes, and the same thing happens. As soon as anything in contact with the srimech moves, it drops.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on October 21, 2019, 07:32:46 PM
Just now, I tipped the bot upside down in the workshop and went to the test area.

Both the forks and the srimech with double gearboxes are perfectly capable of effortlessly lifting the robot's entire weight. But something interesting happened when I lifted it on the forks then the srimech.
The srimech moved right up until the point that the front end of it hit the floor. At that point it went limp.

So it seems the actual cause of the sudden loss of strength might be if any kind of shock runs through the machine. Which might explain why they also go limp when I try to move them while the robot is moving at all.

EDIT: It just occurred to me, are you certain the two things moved at significantly different speeds when they were set to be equivalent? The forks have further to move.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 22, 2019, 06:54:59 AM
EDIT: It just occurred to me, are you certain the two things moved at significantly different speeds when they were set to be equivalent? The forks have further to move.
Depends on weight too i guess
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Saroder on October 26, 2019, 09:25:42 AM
Kix and CodeSilver23, thank you for your answers guys (Sorry mine is a lil bit late...)
But... you missed the main point that would block most of new testers...

When you unpack the september 17's build the "C:\Users\User\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Robots" folder doesn't exist AND while you don't create it by yourself you can't see the built-in bots and can't start any battle !

For example, try renaming your folder (as "...\Robots.bak" for example), run the game and you'll fast see what I mean. It looks like actually nothing in the game create the folder...

I'm (and you are certainly too) the kind of guys searching the Web and not giving up so fast when it comes to get something interesting working... But at first it's a bit disappointing and some people would have given up the testing of this game deleting the folder thinking it's really too early in the alpha...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 26, 2019, 10:31:11 AM
Kix and CodeSilver23, thank you for your answers guys (Sorry mine is a lil bit late...)
But... you missed the main point that would block most of new testers...

When you unpack the september 17's build the "C:\Users\User\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Robots" folder doesn't exist AND while you don't create it by yourself you can't see the built-in bots and can't start any battle !

For example, try renaming your folder (as "...\Robots.bak" for example), run the game and you'll fast see what I mean. It looks like actually nothing in the game create the folder...

I'm (and you are certainly too) the kind of guys searching the Web and not giving up so fast when it comes to get something interesting working... But at first it's a bit disappointing and some people would have given up the testing of this game deleting the folder thinking it's really too early in the alpha...

Sorry for the confusion.  That folder is only used to store user-made robots.  The prebuilt robots are packaged up as part of the .exe file.  They weren’t built using the in-game robot workshop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: jackster96 on October 26, 2019, 10:52:05 AM
Amazing work with the game so far. Huge progress from when i last played it. Noticed that the robots when immobile and upside down seem to continuously slide around will this be getting fixed at some-point and how is the progress going for the reworked damage system going?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on October 26, 2019, 04:20:25 PM
Noticed that the robots when immobile and upside down seem to continuously slide around
I can't remember if I mentioned this already but the same goes for things like horizontal discs, you break one off and it goes sliding across the arena like a slow-motion hockey puck. I'm certain that one time I attacked a broken-off disc and it dealt damage to my opponent, but I haven't been able to replicate it so maybe I was mistaken.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 26, 2019, 04:30:55 PM
No, you’re right. It takes damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 27, 2019, 12:41:44 AM
Noticed that the robots when immobile and upside down seem to continuously slide around
I can't remember if I mentioned this already but the same goes for things like horizontal discs, you break one off and it goes sliding across the arena like a slow-motion hockey puck. I'm certain that one time I attacked a broken-off disc and it dealt damage to my opponent, but I haven't been able to replicate it so maybe I was mistaken.
You can damage the opponent if you hit a part that's been broken off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on October 30, 2019, 07:36:25 PM
I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX THE GLITCH!!! If you have a motor on a motor, attach a wheel to the second motor. Then you attach your weapon to the wheel. then BOOM! Now you have a saw bot.
Sorry for the lat reply. How long did you try different things? Thank you for finding a fix. This will be very helpful, but how did you get the Idea of putting on a wheel?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on October 30, 2019, 10:05:31 PM
I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX THE GLITCH!!! If you have a motor on a motor, attach a wheel to the second motor. Then you attach your weapon to the wheel. then BOOM! Now you have a saw bot.
Sorry for the lat reply. How long did you try different things? Thank you for finding a fix. This will be very helpful, but how did you get the Idea of putting on a wheel?
honestly, i am not 100% sure
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on November 06, 2019, 10:09:15 AM
I FIGURED OUT HOW TO FIX THE GLITCH!!! If you have a motor on a motor, attach a wheel to the second motor. Then you attach your weapon to the wheel. then BOOM! Now you have a saw bot.
Sorry for the lat reply. How long did you try different things? Thank you for finding a fix. This will be very helpful, but how did you get the Idea of putting on a wheel?
honestly, i am not 100% sure
Like that the blur will be gone, but I don't really mind it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mouldy on November 18, 2019, 04:16:16 AM
Oh damn, looks like this has been worked on a bit since last time. Nice one.

I'll get into it a little bit and see if I can host a test tournament or something.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 18, 2019, 04:45:22 AM
Oh damn, looks like this has been worked on a bit since last time. Nice one.

I'll get into it a little bit and see if I can host a test tournament or something.
Enter my tournament instead ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mouldy on November 18, 2019, 05:57:46 AM
Oh damn, looks like this has been worked on a bit since last time. Nice one.

I'll get into it a little bit and see if I can host a test tournament or something.
Enter my tournament instead ;)

You think I can build a robot in this day and age? Get out. I don't even build Garry's Wars bots anymore.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 27, 2019, 02:59:07 PM
Ok so here are some thoughts after a month of playing the October 10th build:
The Positive:
- The damage has been improved by a good bit.
- There is no sudden limit on custom shapes that would occur so ayy thats great
- The Gearboxes are a godsend, you can really make more stuff more compact, and the bots can be a bit more slimmer
The Negative:
- As much as you have reduced the friction there is an issue where sliding exist, and its a bit too much
- The friction however didnt also fix the driving, even if we thought so. Main issue is that 2wd bots with wheels on the back will still bounce, the further behind the wheel is, the more bounce it has. It again seems that the pit lid that you can drive on untill it gets activated and descend has something to it that makes it perfect. The bots just dont bounce at all.
- If i play the game with 2 controllers, in settings there will be only one controller selected. You can change it so every person has its own controller controls, but after exiting the match, settings reset.
- Settings reset to stock. Music unmutes, unless you delete it in the game folder, The internal resolution reverts back to 1280X720 every time you enter or exit something.
- We need an option to both: Remove the dreadful texture on poly/UHMW/Alu material, and the option to make Alu/Steel parts be white. The only way atm is to set the RGB values from 1 to 2 in the rr2bot file.

With everything what i just said, i still play the game as its not as bad as it was 4 or 5 months ago, its actually pretty good. Its just that it needs improvements.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on November 28, 2019, 08:54:28 AM
Ok so here are some thoughts after a month of playing the October 10th build:
The Positive:
- The damage has been improved by a good bit.
- There is no sudden limit on custom shapes that would occur so ayy thats great
- The Gearboxes are a godsend, you can really make more stuff more compact, and the bots can be a bit more slimmer
The Negative:
- As much as you have reduced the friction there is an issue where sliding exist, and its a bit too much
- The friction however didnt also fix the driving, even if we thought so. Main issue is that 2wd bots with wheels on the back will still bounce, the further behind the wheel is, the more bounce it has. It again seems that the pit lid that you can drive on untill it gets activated and descend has something to it that makes it perfect. The bots just dont bounce at all.
- If i play the game with 2 controllers, in settings there will be only one controller selected. You can change it so every person has its own controller controls, but after exiting the match, settings reset.
- Settings reset to stock. Music unmutes, unless you delete it in the game folder, The internal resolution reverts back to 1280X720 every time you enter or exit something.
- We need an option to both: Remove the dreadful texture on poly/UHMW/Alu material, and the option to make Alu/Steel parts be white. The only way atm is to set the RGB values from 1 to 2 in the rr2bot file.

With everything what i just said, i still play the game as its not as bad as it was 4 or 5 months ago, its actually pretty good. Its just that it needs improvements.
Those are some good ideas. I'm already looking forward to what might come in the next build
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 01, 2019, 02:23:17 PM
Been trying this out now and I'm wondering how to actually use the painter. Seen others with nicely colored bots, but no luck for me. Doesn't seem to paint much.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on December 01, 2019, 02:52:34 PM
Been trying this out now and I'm wondering how to actually use the painter. Seen others with nicely colored bots, but no luck for me. Doesn't seem to paint much.
The painter doesn't really work. People have been colouring their bots by using the "tint" function when selecting material type, and then adding details using paper thin custom components
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 01, 2019, 03:12:23 PM
Oh alright. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on December 02, 2019, 02:45:20 PM
Hi! I had a glitch with a bot where its frame was designed like this:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
 and it looks like this any other time:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Here's the bot file:  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 16, 2019, 03:38:02 PM
Hey, you know the turntable in the Robot Workshop? I think this was mentioned before, but its rotation speed is tied to the frame rate, right? Could you change that and make the speed constant? It was nice and slow on my old laptop, and on my brand-new rig it's comically fast. I'll have to see if I can get a recording.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 17, 2019, 04:13:41 AM
Hey, you know the turntable in the Robot Workshop? I think this was mentioned before, but its rotation speed is tied to the frame rate, right? Could you change that and make the speed constant? It was nice and slow on my old laptop, and on my brand-new rig it's comically fast. I'll have to see if I can get a recording.
ATM, the workaround is to limit the fps in rivatune but its a really "eh" workaround
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 11:33:51 AM
Hey guys,

Its finals week here at school, so I've "final"ly had a chance to sit down and take a crack at a few things:

1. @tashic has been working on the mirroring function in the botlab.
2. We have (finally) nailed down the structure of robots and how they are reconstructed from the BotLab -> .RR2Bot file -> combat.  For this go-around the chain of component addition is preserved in combat.  This means when you hit something hard enough to destroy it, it and everything attached to it will break off together.  You can even proceed to bash composite robot assemblies apart into their individual components.

I've tested #1 and #2 above for heavyweights, and still need to make sure the above works with beetleweights.  I should be able to put something up in the next day or two.

@kix, sorry about the friction/driving.  I'm not sure if I have touched it in the last few months.  The Mental Breakdown you sent me doesn't drive so great anymore.  I think it also has weight issues too.  i.e. its plates are made from a material that will bust apart with very little effort.  i.e. I need to switch everything to 3 mm steel plate to see how that changes the driving.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 17, 2019, 12:00:24 PM
1. @tashic has been working on the mirroring function in the botlab.
This makes me (and likely others too) very happy.

You lot are doing great work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 17, 2019, 12:10:27 PM
Hey guys,

Its finals week here at school, so I've "final"ly had a chance to sit down and take a crack at a few things:

1. @tashic has been working on the mirroring function in the botlab.
2. We have (finally) nailed down the structure of robots and how they are reconstructed from the BotLab -> .RR2Bot file -> combat.  For this go-around the chain of component addition is preserved in combat.  This means when you hit something hard enough to destroy it, it and everything attached to it will break off together.  You can even proceed to bash composite robot assemblies apart into their individual components.

I've tested #1 and #2 above for heavyweights, and still need to make sure the above works with beetleweights.  I should be able to put something up in the next day or two.

@kix, sorry about the friction/driving.  I'm not sure if I have touched it in the last few months.  The Mental Breakdown you sent me doesn't drive so great anymore.  I think it also has weight issues too.  i.e. its plates are made from a material that will bust apart with very little effort.  i.e. I need to switch everything to 3 mm steel plate to see how that changes the driving.
Hopefully, all submissions for the SvL tournament will still be functional... If not, I'll allow all entrants to send in new bots/ fix issues and resend them. Glad to have you back, cjbruce.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 17, 2019, 12:24:01 PM
Bruce youre alive ayy!
Kupatec and me have been snooping around the dll files, for curiosity sake, and kupa removed the parts falling off part, as a temp thing. Nothing to game breaking, or serious
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 12:24:33 PM
Hey guys,

Its finals week here at school, so I've "final"ly had a chance to sit down and take a crack at a few things:

1. @tashic has been working on the mirroring function in the botlab.
2. We have (finally) nailed down the structure of robots and how they are reconstructed from the BotLab -> .RR2Bot file -> combat.  For this go-around the chain of component addition is preserved in combat.  This means when you hit something hard enough to destroy it, it and everything attached to it will break off together.  You can even proceed to bash composite robot assemblies apart into their individual components.

I've tested #1 and #2 above for heavyweights, and still need to make sure the above works with beetleweights.  I should be able to put something up in the next day or two.

@kix, sorry about the friction/driving.  I'm not sure if I have touched it in the last few months.  The Mental Breakdown you sent me doesn't drive so great anymore.  I think it also has weight issues too.  i.e. its plates are made from a material that will bust apart with very little effort.  i.e. I need to switch everything to 3 mm steel plate to see how that changes the driving.
Hopefully, all submissions for the SvL tournament will still be functional... If not, I'll allow all entrants to send in new bots/ fix issues and resend them. Glad to have you back, cjbruce.

Should I hold off until after the tournament?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 17, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
Hey guys,

Its finals week here at school, so I've "final"ly had a chance to sit down and take a crack at a few things:

1. @tashic has been working on the mirroring function in the botlab.
2. We have (finally) nailed down the structure of robots and how they are reconstructed from the BotLab -> .RR2Bot file -> combat.  For this go-around the chain of component addition is preserved in combat.  This means when you hit something hard enough to destroy it, it and everything attached to it will break off together.  You can even proceed to bash composite robot assemblies apart into their individual components.

I've tested #1 and #2 above for heavyweights, and still need to make sure the above works with beetleweights.  I should be able to put something up in the next day or two.

@kix, sorry about the friction/driving.  I'm not sure if I have touched it in the last few months.  The Mental Breakdown you sent me doesn't drive so great anymore.  I think it also has weight issues too.  i.e. its plates are made from a material that will bust apart with very little effort.  i.e. I need to switch everything to 3 mm steel plate to see how that changes the driving.
Hopefully, all submissions for the SvL tournament will still be functional... If not, I'll allow all entrants to send in new bots/ fix issues and resend them. Glad to have you back, cjbruce.

Should I hold off until after the tournament?
I dont see holding off being an issue, its p easy for host to use an older version, of fix bots.
If youre planning to release the game p quick, i may hold off PR2 signups till new version is up

As for the wheels/traction/grip
The arena lid properties are great. Here is the footage of what i mean:
https://youtu.be/fmk_5BiO_Lk
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 01:21:48 PM
4 x Mental Breakdown, broken:

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/breakage.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 17, 2019, 01:32:08 PM
this is a great idea but i have a feeling that this could be an issue:

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/486231999548358681/656578797172424808/unknown.png)
Lets say you break#1, the whole thing falls off. Now in reality, the other wedge sides will be screwed on to the chassis so if #1 breaks and falls off, 2/3/4 would still stay.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 17, 2019, 01:46:26 PM
Glad to see you are back bruce! The new damage handling is looking very nice, cannot wait to play around with it. Would it be possible to add a toggle in the settings to disable parts breaking off in future versions?

As Kix mentioned we have been poking around in the assembled code and I have made a modification to disable the parts falling off for the current version (as it is a bit dodgy as you know). I just wanted to ask what your opinion is on people potentially modifying the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 02:45:42 PM
Glad to see you are back bruce! The new damage handling is looking very nice, cannot wait to play around with it. Would it be possible to add a toggle in the settings to disable parts breaking off in future versions?

As Kix mentioned we have been poking around in the assembled code and I have made a modification to disable the parts falling off for the current version (as it is a bit dodgy as you know). I just wanted to ask what your opinion is on people potentially modifying the game?

There isn't a toggle switch in the settings right now.  My thought is that the entire damage system will be based on parts falling off.  Without it, you could easily build an indestructible robot. This means that the damage system needs to be really carefully tuned or else the game is not fun. 

On second thought, maybe indestructible robots are okay as long as there is a point scoring system for "good hits"?

That being said, I consider people modifying the game to be the greatest possible form of flattery.  I just want to feel like people are getting their money's worth when it finally does go on sale.

Ideally when can pull all the ideas together into an official release. 

PS - How are your Unity/art skills? :)

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 02:49:43 PM
this is a great idea but i have a feeling that this could be an issue:

Lets say you break#1, the whole thing falls off. Now in reality, the other wedge sides will be screwed on to the chassis so if #1 breaks and falls off, 2/3/4 would still stay.

This is absolutely on my brain right now.  The breakage scripts are working for entire components, but not (yet) for chassis armor plates.

At one point I had a picture of one of our robots that took a hit in the competition.  The Ampflow A28-150G gearbox was bolted to the inside of a polycarbonate chassis armor plate.  A horizontal spinner hit busted the whole thing off: plate, gearbox, motor, and wheel.  The motor was still connected via two wires to the ESC, so it still worked, even though it was trailing guts everywhere.  It was awesome, and our kids went nuts when it happened in the competition.

That's what I really want to build. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 17, 2019, 03:03:48 PM
this is a great idea but i have a feeling that this could be an issue:

Lets say you break#1, the whole thing falls off. Now in reality, the other wedge sides will be screwed on to the chassis so if #1 breaks and falls off, 2/3/4 would still stay.

This is absolutely on my brain right now.  The breakage scripts are working for entire components, but not (yet) for chassis armor plates.

At one point I had a picture of one of our robots that took a hit in the competition.  The Ampflow A28-150G gearbox was bolted to the inside of a polycarbonate chassis armor plate.  A horizontal spinner hit busted the whole thing off: plate, gearbox, motor, and wheel.  The motor was still connected via two wires to the ESC, so it still worked, even though it was trailing guts everywhere.  It was awesome, and our kids went nuts when it happened in the competition.

That's what I really want to build. :)
Yea that seems possible
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 17, 2019, 04:10:05 PM
There isn't a toggle switch in the settings right now.  My thought is that the entire damage system will be based on parts falling off.
Yeah, I was thinking as a sort of debug option while the damage system is being worked on, so we don't need to utilise things such as the "wheelfix" if things aren't working as planned.

That being said, I consider people modifying the game to be the greatest possible form of flattery.  I just want to feel like people are getting their money's worth when it finally does go on sale.
That's good to hear, I was a little worried about toeing the line when it came to making modifications. Glad to see a Dev that embraces the possibilities of mods!

PS - How are your Unity/art skills? :)
Well I studied Digital Graphic/Motion Design along with Software Development in college and have used Unity a bit over the years for little hobby projects. So not a pro, but not a complete noob either really.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 17, 2019, 05:12:02 PM
I found a problem with spinners last night that I believe exists in previous builds.  Spinners were colliding with their own robot, causing all sorts of reaction forces and making big spinners wildly uncontrollable.  Mental Breakdown had the problem too.  The fix was pretty simple, and should be up in the next day or so.

After the fix, Mental Breakdown had a second issue that was masked by the self-collision issue.  Mental Breakdown’s spinner was just barely clipping the arena floor.  This was causing it to bounce up off the floor, losing traction and causing it to drive really slowly.  I fixed it by lifting up the spinner by about 1 cm.  The robot drives fine now.  Its big issue now is the drive is a little too powerful.  Also that the 1 mm steel front wedges break off too easily in combat.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 05:24:33 AM
an issue:

(ok i cant insert attachments)

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 05:37:07 AM
an issue:

(ok i cant insert attachments)

It looks like the Weapon_Blur_Cylinder that is automatically generated rotates around an incorrect axis.  Drat.  I need to fix this.  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?

Am I correct in assuming that there are supposed to be 6 horizontal spinners?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 05:40:43 AM
an issue:

(ok i cant insert attachments)

It looks like the Weapon_Blur_Cylinder that is automatically generated rotates around an incorrect axis.  Drat.  I need to fix this.  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?

Am I correct in assuming that there are supposed to be 6 horizontal spinners?

Ya ill send you the bot.
That is actually a rammer, no hori spinners at all
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: RoboticCombatUk on December 18, 2019, 10:32:23 AM
I've always dreamed of seeing the Battlebots reboot arena in this game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 10:40:54 AM
an issue:

(ok i cant insert attachments)

It looks like the Weapon_Blur_Cylinder that is automatically generated rotates around an incorrect axis.  Drat.  I need to fix this.  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?

Am I correct in assuming that there are supposed to be 6 horizontal spinners?

Ya ill send you the bot.
That is actually a rammer, no hori spinners at all

I'm looking at it now.  Two issues need to be addressed:

1. I need a way to NOT create a Weapon_Blur_Cylinder when you intend for this to be a wheel.  The Weapon_Blur_Cylinder is specifically designed to compute the collision of a high speed (faster than the physics tick rate) weapon.  If it is used for wheels then it will cause motion but the driving feel will be terrible.  It will be kind of like driving with a tire that goes "whap whap whap" against the floor.

My thought for this is to have a wide range of wheels available so that people won't make their own.  Either that or there needs to be a way for a player to specifically designate a thing as a "wheel" (or more precisely "not a weapon").

2. In some cases the blur cylinder is created about the wrong axis.  I'm trying to fix this now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 10:43:36 AM
I've always dreamed of seeing the Battlebots reboot arena in this game.

I've reached out to Battlebots but haven't heard anything back.  It would be awesome, but we would need their permission to put it in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 11:43:24 AM

Ya ill send you the bot.
That is actually a rammer, no hori spinners at all

Fixed, at least partly.  When you select "Rubber" as the material, a Weapon_Blur_Cylinder is no longer created.  EDIT - This means that you can now create your own custom rubber wheels.

I haven't fixed the problem with the weapon blur cylinder being created about an incorrect axis.

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/rubberwheels.gif)

PS - Thin 2 drives REALLY well.  Having 10 small wheels is awesome.  It reminds me of Robert Cowan's "Low Low Man" beetleweight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEaEYO9HQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEaEYO9HQA)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 12:18:53 PM
I've always dreamed of seeing the Battlebots reboot arena in this game.

I've reached out to Battlebots but haven't heard anything back.  It would be awesome, but we would need their permission to put it in the game.

Tbh if an arena designer becomes a thing, i can see somebody artistic enough making one there
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 12:57:20 PM
I'm putting in a damage multiplier slider.  We haven't done any damage tuning yet.

You should be able to slide it all the way to "0" in settings to disable damage entirely for tournaments.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 01:14:57 PM
I'm putting in a damage multiplier slider.  We haven't done any damage tuning yet.

You should be able to slide it all the way to "0" in settings to disable damage entirely for tournaments.
Thats actually great

Will that mean that the options will now save?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 02:25:07 PM
I'm putting in a damage multiplier slider.  We haven't done any damage tuning yet.

You should be able to slide it all the way to "0" in settings to disable damage entirely for tournaments.
Thats actually great

Will that mean that the options will now save?

Unfortunately no, not in this build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 02:57:57 PM
I'm putting in a damage multiplier slider.  We haven't done any damage tuning yet.

You should be able to slide it all the way to "0" in settings to disable damage entirely for tournaments.
Thats actually great

Will that mean that the options will now save?

Unfortunately no, not in this build.
Oh, maybe the multiplier then should be set to a low value i suppose atleast till the settings can save
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 03:01:39 PM

Thats actually great

Will that mean that the options will now save?

Unfortunately no, not in this build.

The damage multiplier should now be saved in PlayerPrefs.  It is working in the Unity editor:

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/damageslider.png)

I have the saving system open now.  What other saving isn't working?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/audiosliders.png)
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/videosliders.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 04:24:08 PM
What other saving isn't working?
Audio settings, video settings
And the fact that video aspect is wrong
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: RpJk on December 18, 2019, 04:29:28 PM
Still keeping an eye on how well this is going.
If I had a better laptop, I would be playing this a lot more. And a building tutorial.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 18, 2019, 04:30:23 PM
Still keeping an eye on how well this is going.
If I had a better laptop, I would be playing this a lot more. And a building tutorial.
One of those 2 do exist
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on December 18, 2019, 05:00:05 PM
For me the audio/video settings save if I change them during a fight, but they don't work in the main menu.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 18, 2019, 05:02:05 PM
It's great to see that custom wheels should be working a lot better now, and that damage multiplier slider is going to come in incredibly handy!

What other saving isn't working?
As Kix mentioned the video settings seem to bounce back to default on every scene change so it seems the current resolution isn't being stored/read correctly.

At the moment, I'm using a hacky fix by injecting a script that sets the window size on awake() 😅

While we are on the subject of hacky fixes I'm working on; is there any plans for the ability to toggle the UI in a match? I, personally, would love to be able to disable it (especially the massive amount of screen space the free look camera panel takes up) for recording matches.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 06:31:35 PM
For me the audio/video settings save if I change them during a fight, but they don't work in the main menu.

Gotcha!  I will take a look either tonight or tomorrow.  I was just setting them from within a fight and they were saving then.  I haven’t checked when setting them from the main menu screen.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 06:33:35 PM
It's great to see that custom wheels should be working a lot better now, and that damage multiplier slider is going to come in incredibly handy!

What other saving isn't working?
As Kix mentioned the video settings seem to bounce back to default on every scene change so it seems the current resolution isn't being stored/read correctly.

At the moment, I'm using a hacky fix by injecting a script that sets the window size on awake() 😅

While we are on the subject of hacky fixes I'm working on; is there any plans for the ability to toggle the UI in a match? I, personally, would love to be able to disable it (especially the massive amount of screen space the free look camera panel takes up) for recording matches.

Maybe a hotkey to hide the UI?  Can you post a marked-up screenshot of what you would like to get rid of?  I should have a few hours to work on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 06:36:50 PM
Still keeping an eye on how well this is going.
If I had a better laptop, I would be playing this a lot more. And a building tutorial.

Sorry about that!  If it’s any consolation, I’m still developing the game on my 2013 macbook air.  If I can get it to run well on this computer, hopefully it helps others with old laptops.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 08:33:23 PM
For me the audio/video settings save if I change them during a fight, but they don't work in the main menu.

Gotcha!  I will take a look either tonight or tomorrow.  I was just setting them from within a fight and they were saving then.  I haven’t checked when setting them from the main menu screen.

Yup.  Found it.  The UI code for the battle screens is different than the UI code for the main menu.  I should have them all working properly by tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 18, 2019, 08:54:33 PM
Bubblegum is fixed!  There were two overlapping colliders whose collisions weren't being ignored.  Bubblegum sits flat and drives straight now.

I still have to get the different settings menus squared away.  I'm hoping to fix those and push out the build in the next 24 hours.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 06:02:34 AM
Settings menus are a mess.  It is going to take more time than I have today to get them working correctly in every scene.

Right now settings menu in the "Test Arena" seems to work correctly.  It is the only settings menu with the damage slider.  All of the other settings menus are in various stages of nonfunctional.

I'm going to put together the build as it is right now and push it out to itch.io today:

[Added] Botlab "Mirror" function - Components and assemblies can now be mirrored:


[Added] Belts/Chain/Pulley transmission components can now be stacked.
[Added] Breakage - Entire component chains can now be broken off.  I.e. If a shape with an attached motor breaks, the shape, motor, and everything attached to that motor all break off together.
[Added] Added a "Damage Multiplier" slider in the Test Arena settings menu.  Please note that this slider only works in the test arena.  Work still needs to be done to get the settings working correctly throughout the entire game.

[Change] You can now make your own rubber wheels!  When a shape's material is set to "Rubber", a Weapon_Blur_Cylinder is not attached to it.  The weapon blur cylinder was previously attached to all spinning shapes.  It was designed to handle the collisions of a high speed spinning weapon, but made wheels drive horribly.  In the new build, if you select "rubber" for the material, the game assumes you are making a wheel and won't attach the blur cylinder, allowing you to create wheels that drive normally.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem for all spinners which caused a robots spinner to collide with the rest of the robot, causing the robot to fly around wildly.  This made spinners unplayable for the most part.
[Bug Fix] Bubblegum now sits flat and drives correctly.  This was due to a similar issue as the bug fix listed above.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 09:27:24 AM
The new build is live!  It is dated 12December2019, and includes the features and fixes in the preceding post.  Yay alliteration!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Here's a screenshot showing the new mirroring feature:

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/robotworkshopmirroringfeature.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 19, 2019, 10:03:21 AM
The new build is live!  It is dated 12December2019, and includes the features and fixes in the preceding post.  Yay alliteration!

First impressions on the damage system are great, however I have noticed a couple of bugs.

Mirroring works great, alongside the changes to the rubber material. All in all a great update!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 10:27:14 AM
Ok so some feedback:
1. Flame pit instantly breaks off parts
2. Im not a fan of the damage. Even at 50% parts fall off too fast and it makes not difference than on 200%. You dont even need to hit a bot with the weapon to break his part off
3. for the damage. Maybe you could make an option to couple up few smaller parts to turn it into a bigger part. this way you could avoid losing a fair bit of parts because one small part that was holding the weapon together reached 0hp
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 19, 2019, 10:36:31 AM
3. for the damage. Maybe you could make an option to couple up few smaller parts to turn it into a bigger part. this way you could avoid losing a fair bit of parts because one small part that was holding the weapon together reached 0hp

This is a genius idea, the ability to combine multiple custom shapes into one composite component would make a huge difference to building and styling.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 10:44:54 AM
oh yea, the update did something to self collision so this is fun i guess
https://youtu.be/xJRuqwIs448
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 11:10:11 AM
oh yea, the update did something to self collision so this is fun i guess

Darn it.  I thought I fixed this.

I guess I need to look at it again.  Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 11:15:54 AM
oh yea, the update did something to self collision so this is fun i guess

Darn it.  I thought I fixed this.

I guess I need to look at it again.  Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot file?
Sending atm
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 11:17:49 AM
Ok so some feedback:
1. Flame pit instantly breaks off parts

Found and fixed the problem.  Thank you guys for pointing it out.  I feel like I should have caught it. *sheepish*

2. Im not a fan of the damage. Even at 50% parts fall off too fast and it makes not difference than on 200%. You dont even need to hit a bot with the weapon to break his part off

Good to know.  I might retune the slider to give a 25% option.

3. for the damage. Maybe you could make an option to couple up few smaller parts to turn it into a bigger part. this way you could avoid losing a fair bit of parts because one small part that was holding the weapon together reached 0hp

This might be tough to do.  I will have to think about it quite a bit and ask @tashic to see what he thinks.  It would require additional stuff in the .RR2Bot file.  It would also require new UI. 

It also fundamentally affects the design of the game.  Would it always be optimal to just make the entire robot one group so that nothing ever falls off?

Following that train of logic, what if component destructibility isn't possible at all.  Is the game better if the entire robot is just one big bag of hit points?  Everything works perfectly until the robot is dead?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 19, 2019, 11:20:11 AM
    I'm not too sure the damage slider is working when set to 0% as parts still seem to fall off but again that could be down to the flame pit mentioned earlier
Okay, after a bit of testing I can say the damage slider is working apart from the fire pit issue, however it seems that even on 200% that bot chassis are now immune to damage completely. House robots still take damage correctly but custom bots cannot be killed now, is this expected behaviour?

EDIT:
Following that train of logic, what if component destructibility isn't possible at all.  Is the game better if the entire robot is just one big bag of hit points?  Everything works perfectly until the robot is dead?
I think component destructibility is a major feature that needs to stay in the game, however the current handling could use tweaks. One thought I had is to have each tree of components form a bag of HP and once that is depleted then the entire tree falls off? Somewhat similar to the previous updates handling, but using the total tree health instead of just the weakest parts.

Would it always be optimal to just make the entire robot one group so that nothing ever falls off?
Unfortunately there are always going to be people that optimise the fun out of any system, but I don't personally think that should be a reason not to do something.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 11:27:22 AM
Good to know.  I might retune the slider to give a 25% option.
The main thing is that you can hit an opponent with a wheel, and the part may fall off. Everything that is not a weapon prolly shouldnt deal damage.

It also fundamentally affects the design of the game.  Would it always be optimal to just make the entire robot one group so that nothing ever falls off?

Following that train of logic, what if component destructibility isn't possible at all.  Is the game better if the entire robot is just one big bag of hit points?  Everything works perfectly until the robot is dead?
Ok this one is kinda hard i guess, ofc i think with the way damage works people will need to relearn how to build. The problem is that the smaller the part is the less durable it is, which is okay, the issue however is that it seems like the scaling is off as small parts even on 50 thickness steel fall too off easily, Maybe make only weapons groupable?

As for the damage multiplier, i think you should also add 5% and 10% because 25 might still be too high
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 19, 2019, 11:53:13 AM
The main thing is that you can hit an opponent with a wheel, and the part may fall off. Everything that is not a weapon prolly shouldnt deal damage.
[snip]
As for the damage multiplier, i think you should also add 5% and 10% because 25 might still be too high

I have built a "Fire Pit Fix" for the current version and now at 50% and even 100% damage slider it feels right for my bots at least. Something about the way the fire pit was dealing damage (mostly a lot of it every frame) was causing issues with durability. I think that is what was causing the problems with the lighter parts health being seemingly out of scale also.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 12:07:38 PM
Another issue is that the custom wheels fall off by themselves overtime. This is a shame really, as lot of my bots use custom made wheels


i think that the main culprit and issue is self damage, which breaks stuf. I was hitting an opponents chassis with my axe, and the axe fell off, he did not have a weapon at all
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 12:38:17 PM
Another issue is that the custom wheels fall off by themselves overtime. This is a shame really, as lot of my bots use custom made wheels


i think that the main culprit and issue is self damage, which breaks stuf. I was hitting an opponents chassis with my axe, and the axe fell off, he did not have a weapon at all

I'm really struggling with this conceptually, and could use some help with this:

1. Objects should be damaged because they absorb kinetic energy (or impulse, or whatever).  This could be from a spinner hit, but also from just naturally bumping into stuff.  Case in point: a flipper launches a robot 2 meters in the air.  The robot lands.  It breaks into 2 pieces.

2. The advantage of saying that "only weapons can cause damage" is that is a very clearly understood idea for players.  The disadvantage is that it means that you can give literally anything you create a "weapon" tag, resulting in everything damaging everything.  This puts us right back where we started.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 12:51:26 PM
1. Objects should be damaged because they absorb kinetic energy (or impulse, or whatever).  This could be from a spinner hit, but also from just naturally bumping into stuff.  Case in point: a flipper launches a robot 2 meters in the air.  The robot lands.  It breaks into 2 pieces.
The problem is, i was just driving the bot, i did not bounce into everything nor i was hit by a spinner/flipper/axe. Bot bouncing may have also been a culprit

2. The advantage of saying that "only weapons can cause damage" is that is a very clearly understood idea for players.  The disadvantage is that it means that you can give literally anything you create a "weapon" tag, resulting in everything damaging everything.  This puts us right back where we started.
Maybe a weapon could only be parts that are not rubber and they are only on motors/pistons/servos.
Maybe also a function where of you pressed f12, you could see what is a weapon (parts would be highlighted green), and what is not. This would be helpful for hosts i guess
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 12:58:48 PM
1. Objects should be damaged because they absorb kinetic energy (or impulse, or whatever).  This could be from a spinner hit, but also from just naturally bumping into stuff.  Case in point: a flipper launches a robot 2 meters in the air.  The robot lands.  It breaks into 2 pieces.
The problem is, i was just driving the bot, i did not bounce into everything nor i was hit by a spinner/flipper/axe. Bot bouncing may have also been a culprit

2. The advantage of saying that "only weapons can cause damage" is that is a very clearly understood idea for players.  The disadvantage is that it means that you can give literally anything you create a "weapon" tag, resulting in everything damaging everything.  This puts us right back where we started.


Maybe a weapon could only be parts that are not rubber and they are only on motors/pistons/servos.
Maybe also a function where of you pressed f12, you could see what is a weapon (parts would be highlighted green), and what is not. This would be helpful for hosts i guess

1. Maybe the answer to this is that a minimum amount of kinetic energy needs to be dissipated in order for damage to occur.  This should prevent random vibrations and bumping around from doing anything.

2. Giving things a "weapon" tag would definitely help with player understanding.  I like the idea of pressing the f12 key (or something similar on the mac keyboard) to highlight things.  It doesn't address the damage caused by being launched into the air though.  Should a big fall cause damage?  What about getting launched sideways into the arena wall at 10 meters/second?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 01:03:44 PM
1. Maybe the answer to this is that a minimum amount of kinetic energy needs to be dissipated in order for damage to occur.  This should prevent random vibrations and bumping around from doing anything.
I like the idea, this way, the vibrations/bouncing wont hurt thr bot. Also maybe at 0hp, you'd need to reach a certain force of KJ to rip the part out too!

2. Giving things a "weapon" tag would definitely help with player understanding.  I like the idea of pressing the f12 key (or something similar on the mac keyboard) to highlight things.  It doesn't address the damage caused by being launched into the air though.  Should a big fall cause damage?  What about getting launched sideways into the arena wall at 10 meters/second?
Atm, Flipper damage should not be touched till the damage itself is sorted. As for the launching stuff, i guess internal damage would be the best, however if you would hit the side/floor at a high speed with a spinning weapon, then i guess external damage would work there
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 19, 2019, 03:02:11 PM
I've downloaded and started up the new version for a short bit. May be trying to build stuff with mirroring now in place.

What I did notice is an issue with the forward heading. Some of my bots (namely Stopping Power and Miasma) have it at 180 (or -180, doesn't matter), but every time the botlab is entered with one of them, the forward heading gets reset to 0.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on December 19, 2019, 04:21:43 PM
i feel like what needs to be done (if possible) is to find a certain energy threshold where damage will begin to occur. two robots bumping into each other at low speeds typically doesn't cause damage, and neither do many low-power attacks with weapons. if there's a way to make it so all damage calculated below this threshold is zero, i think that should be the way to go.

weapons shouldn't always cause damage because then a heavy bar dragging slowly across a chassis will do quite a lot more damage than in real life, and no one likes that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 19, 2019, 05:51:12 PM
I've downloaded and started up the new version for a short bit. May be trying to build stuff with mirroring now in place.

What I did notice is an issue with the forward heading. Some of my bots (namely Stopping Power and Miasma) have it at 180 (or -180, doesn't matter), but every time the botlab is entered with one of them, the forward heading gets reset to 0.
Alternatively, you can rotate the bot. Select the chassis and do a 180. Heading to 0 and voila!

Also chassis scaling is broken. Cyar will tell whats wrong
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 19, 2019, 06:07:17 PM
My Panic Attack has been functionally destroyed by this update. :(
The chassis turns into a janky mess when the bot is being simulated, and the weapons put a ridiculous amount of torque on the whole thing. It's so bad it can't even self-right.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

If you want to compare it how it is now to how it's supposed to work, its fight with Flipster in the first Parsec Rumble 1.0 video is a good example.
(Just opening that bot file in an earlier version would kinda work, but I de-wheelfixed the weapons in the hope that it would at least fix the torque issue. It didn't.)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on December 19, 2019, 07:21:06 PM
also while i'm here, can i request the ability to run a weapon off of multiple motors? this would help tremendously with trying to make more compact robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 08:52:33 PM
also while i'm here, can i request the ability to run a weapon off of multiple motors? this would help tremendously with trying to make more compact robots.

Were you thinking two motors, both turning the same belt?  You can request it, but it really complicates the component assembly tree.  I.e. it isn't really a tree structure any more.  The .RR2bot file and component assembly is currently built around a tree structure.  Each component has exactly one parent component.  With the possibility of two parents, things become much more complicated.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 19, 2019, 09:28:32 PM
My Panic Attack has been functionally destroyed by this update. :(
The chassis turns into a janky mess when the bot is being simulated, and the weapons put a ridiculous amount of torque on the whole thing. It's so bad it can't even self-right.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

If you want to compare it how it is now to how it's supposed to work, its fight with Flipster in the first Parsec Rumble 1.0 video is a good example.
(Just opening that bot file in an earlier version would kinda work, but I de-wheelfixed the weapons in the hope that it would at least fix the torque issue. It didn't.)

I have an old version of Panic Attack from October 21st, as well as the new version you just sent me.  The old version seemed to work okay.  For some reason the flipper's limit angles weren't set properly in the new version.  Once I set the limit angles, things seemed to work okay.

My computer is really struggling with frame rate at the moment, but once I can get that under control I will try to get a video showing both versions of Panic Attack going head-to-head.

Edit:  Here's a gif showing how it is working in for me.  Please excuse the low resolution.  I had to turn things way down because my laptop is chugging:

(http://robot-rumble.com/PanicAttackv2.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 12:33:46 AM
I had to turn things way down because my laptop is chugging:
You wanna know chugging? 4 highly detailed bots in one arena, lagging out a 6 core pc, although it was the gpu that was struggling
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 05:39:04 AM
I had to turn things way down because my laptop is chugging:
You wanna know chugging? 4 highly detailed bots in one arena, lagging out a 6 core pc, although it was the gpu that was struggling

I'm noticing that too.  All of the robots I build are really simple.  No decoration, just basic blocky parts to see if the basic ideas are working correctly.  When I pulled up the second version of Panic Attack my memory usage went through the roof and the game slowed to a crawl.

I have a few ideas that might help:

1. Put each robot on its own collision layer during combat and disable all self-collisions within that layer.  I have a hunch that this should fix Crabsolutely Clawfull, Beetle Crab, Son of Ziggy, and any other robots whose motor armatures have things attached with overlapping colliders. (EASY FIX - can be done today)

2. Get the painter working.  Having an entire separate component dedicated to every piece of paint on the robot is just crazy: awesome looking, but computationally expensive.  (HARD FIX - will take weeks/months of building out the painting system)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 05:44:39 AM
I had to turn things way down because my laptop is chugging:
You wanna know chugging? 4 highly detailed bots in one arena, lagging out a 6 core pc, although it was the gpu that was struggling

I'm noticing that too.  All of the robots I build are really simple.  No decoration, just basic blocky parts to see if the basic ideas are working correctly.  When I pulled up the second version of Panic Attack my memory usage went through the roof and the game slowed to a crawl.

I have a few ideas that might help:

1. Put each robot on its own collision layer during combat and disable all self-collisions within that layer.  I have a hunch that this should fix Crabsolutely Clawfull, Beetle Crab, Son of Ziggy, and any other robots whose motor armatures have things attached with overlapping colliders. (EASY FIX - can be done today)

2. Get the painter working.  Having an entire separate component dedicated to every piece of paint on the robot is just crazy: awesome looking, but computationally expensive.  (HARD FIX - will take weeks/months of building out the painting system)

I like idea 1 as temp idea
I kinda want to fix the damage stuff. Badnik has really suggested something good
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 20, 2019, 06:14:21 AM
I would say the painter might be a good idea for a lot of this to be honest. I think it might help with a lot of the damage system woes at the moment as we won't have to worry about decals falling off ect. We can all appreciate it for the raw, solid parts that fall off.

Speaking of the damage system, to go with Badnik's idea, I was thinking about a 'Size threshold'? I dunno how it would work but as an example, a lot of detailing I do is making bolts with a half sphere scaled to -0.2, -0.1, -0.2. A lot of CC decals are set to 0.001 or 0.01 aswell. Would there be a way of telling the system to ignore parts under a certain size threshold and instead to only break off the parts they are connected to that are over this threshold? Just an idea!

Very happy to see an update though. The mirroring (from what I've briefly tried) is funky!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 20, 2019, 07:31:35 AM
i feel like what needs to be done (if possible) is to find a certain energy threshold where damage will begin to occur. two robots bumping into each other at low speeds typically doesn't cause damage, and neither do many low-power attacks with weapons. if there's a way to make it so all damage calculated below this threshold is zero, i think that should be the way to go.

weapons shouldn't always cause damage because then a heavy bar dragging slowly across a chassis will do quite a lot more damage than in real life, and no one likes that.
Genius.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 11:04:31 AM
i feel like what needs to be done (if possible) is to find a certain energy threshold where damage will begin to occur. two robots bumping into each other at low speeds typically doesn't cause damage, and neither do many low-power attacks with weapons. if there's a way to make it so all damage calculated below this threshold is zero, i think that should be the way to go.

weapons shouldn't always cause damage because then a heavy bar dragging slowly across a chassis will do quite a lot more damage than in real life, and no one likes that.

I’m putting together a rough cut on this:

1. When takeDamage() is called, it has a short delay before it can be called again.
2. When takeDamage() is called, 1/2 of the component’s maxHealth is subtracted.  If this results in a negative number, then the damage is zero.
3. When takeDamage() is called, the damage is limited to a maximum of 0.34 x the maxHealth off the component.

All of the above means that it will take three good hits to break anything.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 11:09:56 AM
My Panic Attack has been functionally destroyed by this update. :(
The chassis turns into a janky mess when the bot is being simulated, and the weapons put a ridiculous amount of torque on the whole thing. It's so bad it can't even self-right.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

If you want to compare it how it is now to how it's supposed to work, its fight with Flipster in the first Parsec Rumble 1.0 video is a good example.
(Just opening that bot file in an earlier version would kinda work, but I de-wheelfixed the weapons in the hope that it would at least fix the torque issue. It didn't.)

I think I have a good permanent fix for this.  I put each robot on its own layer.  Any parts on this layer can’t collide with each other.  I’ll try to get the fix out today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 11:10:51 AM
i feel like what needs to be done (if possible) is to find a certain energy threshold where damage will begin to occur. two robots bumping into each other at low speeds typically doesn't cause damage, and neither do many low-power attacks with weapons. if there's a way to make it so all damage calculated below this threshold is zero, i think that should be the way to go.

weapons shouldn't always cause damage because then a heavy bar dragging slowly across a chassis will do quite a lot more damage than in real life, and no one likes that.

I’m putting together a rough cut on this:

1. When takeDamage() is called, it has a short delay before it can be called again.
2. When takeDamage() is called, 1/2 of the component’s maxHealth is subtracted.  If this results in a negative number, then the damage is zero.
3. When takeDamage() is called, the damage is limited to a maximum of 0.34 x the maxHealth off the component.

All of the above means that it will take three good hits to break anything.



Anything else like small micro-bouncing that deteriorate component's hp by a tiny but continuous bit?
Also What i noticed, the fallen off parts are kinda like in slow mode, they actually can slow down a bot if they are on the wedge of the bot
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 11:22:13 AM

I’m putting together a rough cut on this:

1. When takeDamage() is called, it has a short delay before it can be called again.
2. When takeDamage() is called, 1/2 of the component’s maxHealth is subtracted.  If this results in a negative number, then the damage is zero.
3. When takeDamage() is called, the damage is limited to a maximum of 0.34 x the maxHealth off the component.

All of the above means that it will take three good hits to break anything.



Anything else like small micro-bouncing that deteriorate component's hp by a tiny but continuous bit?
Also What i noticed, the fallen off parts are kinda like in slow mode, they actually can slow down a bot if they are on the wedge of the bot

#1 and #2 should take care of continuous bouncing damage.

Thanks for pointing out the slow motion of broken down objects.  I put in a speed limiter to prevent broken off parts from flying off at ridiculous speed as their colliders’ collisions are suddenly enabled while overlapping their original robot.  I should probably disable the speed limiter after a short period of time has passed.  Maybe 0.5 seconds or so will do the trick. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 11:25:44 AM

I’m putting together a rough cut on this:

1. When takeDamage() is called, it has a short delay before it can be called again.
2. When takeDamage() is called, 1/2 of the component’s maxHealth is subtracted.  If this results in a negative number, then the damage is zero.
3. When takeDamage() is called, the damage is limited to a maximum of 0.34 x the maxHealth off the component.

All of the above means that it will take three good hits to break anything.



Anything else like small micro-bouncing that deteriorate component's hp by a tiny but continuous bit?
Also What i noticed, the fallen off parts are kinda like in slow mode, they actually can slow down a bot if they are on the wedge of the bot

#1 and #2 should take care of continuous bouncing damage.

Thanks for pointing out the slow motion of broken down objects.  I put in a speed limiter to prevent broken off parts from flying off at ridiculous speed as their colliders’ collisions are suddenly enabled while overlapping their original robot.  I should probably disable the speed limiter after a short period of time has passed.  Maybe 0.5 seconds or so will do the trick. 
Yeah 0.5 secs will be good.
A question, why is damage multiplier locked? why cant we use a multiplier of 10%? Just wondering
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 11:31:44 AM
Yeah 0.5 secs will be good.
A question, why is damage multiplier locked? why cant we use a multiplier of 10%? Just wondering

No reason in particular other than in the final game continuous sliders in settings can be a little weird.  I’m assuming that once everything is tweaked to the point where we are all happy we can just replace it with a button that says “Invulnerable Robots”.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 11:39:19 AM
Yeah 0.5 secs will be good.
A question, why is damage multiplier locked? why cant we use a multiplier of 10%? Just wondering

No reason in particular other than in the final game continuous sliders in settings can be a little weird.  I’m assuming that once everything is tweaked to the point where we are all happy we can just replace it with a button that says “Invulnerable Robots”.
Yeah seems okay, i kinda do want to experiment with multiplier because for PR2.0 i want to have damage but not the one where everything will self ko easily
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 20, 2019, 11:42:14 AM
Issue: Gyro is a pain in the ass now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 12:10:03 PM
New build is building right now.  While we wait:

[Bug Fix] Flames no longer do damage directly. Instead they add heat by calling the takeHeat() method. Eventually this will result in damage.

[Bug Fix] Self collisions are no longer possible for a robot. Self collisions were causing robots to randomly launch themselves around.  Each robot is now on its own separate collision layer.

[Bug Fix] The speed limiter for broken parts is now disabled after 0.5 seconds.

[Changed] The Damage Multiplier slider in settings now allows for continuous adjustment from 0% to 200%. [EDIT]

[Changed] Any time takeDamage() is called,

// Subtract 50% of the max health of the component from the damage.
// This should prevent any damage that is ridiculously small from accumulating.
// If the result is less than zero, set the damage to 0.0f.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 12:15:38 PM
Thats grat, damage multiplier untouched i guess
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 12:19:25 PM
Thats grat, damage multiplier untouched i guess

Fixed!  It is now a continuous slider.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 12:20:57 PM
Thats grat, damage multiplier untouched i guess

Fixed!  It is now a continuous slider.
Ok my life is complete, i also guess forward heading might be borked
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 20, 2019, 12:21:32 PM
What about gyro?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 20, 2019, 12:24:07 PM
I think I've figured out what visually broke on Panic Attack, with the chassis scaling.
There are weird seams on it, so I think what's happened is that the outer layer of the chassis scaled properly to 08/09/08, but the inner layer stayed at 1/1/1.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
The 20December2019 build is up!

See previous for the bug fixes!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 20, 2019, 02:11:32 PM
What about gyro?
What about gyro?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 02:38:41 PM
What about gyro?
What about gyro?
Works fine for me
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 20, 2019, 03:48:02 PM
Ok so a quick update: 10% damage is a godsend for me, maybe even 15, but im more comfortable with 10.
Note: The parts that are broken off still feel like they have moon gravity, and they still are immovable, tho its nice to jam up opponents weapons with shrapnel.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 20, 2019, 03:57:53 PM
New build: Damaged components do something very comical in that they float in place once they've been broken off... Kinda like it becomes a fighter bonus reward or something. The same also seems to happen with robots with a flipper piston system. They just kinda float around.

I also managed to try out the mirroring properly. AMAZING!! Exactly what I would have hoped for! Even with the wiring!! Bravo!
Would it be possible maybe to incorporate a similar system in the plot gird for custom components & the chassis? Maybe set up a rule with it that all start and end points need to be on their corresponding mirror axis/plane (so if you wanted to mirror on the X, the first and last points must be on the middle line on the X axis, if that makes sense?)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 20, 2019, 04:33:20 PM
I think I've figured out what visually broke on Panic Attack, with the chassis scaling.
There are weird seams on it, so I think what's happened is that the outer layer of the chassis scaled properly to 08/09/08, but the inner layer stayed at 1/1/1.

I've just tested with a giant box scaled down, and that definitely is the problem. If you resize the chassis using the standard scaling tool, the inside layer of the armour doesn't change.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 20, 2019, 05:03:54 PM
I think I've figured out what visually broke on Panic Attack, with the chassis scaling.
There are weird seams on it, so I think what's happened is that the outer layer of the chassis scaled properly to 08/09/08, but the inner layer stayed at 1/1/1.

I've just tested with a giant box scaled down, and that definitely is the problem. If you resize the chassis using the standard scaling tool, the inside layer of the armour doesn't change.

I can vouch that this is true. The same happened on some of my reps where the chassis was scaled.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 20, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
I think I've figured out what visually broke on Panic Attack, with the chassis scaling.
There are weird seams on it, so I think what's happened is that the outer layer of the chassis scaled properly to 08/09/08, but the inner layer stayed at 1/1/1.

Gotcha.  I think this bug happened when I was playing around with ways to visually indicate damage to the chassis.  I created a copy of the existing chassis plates.  The copies I created are not getting scaled correctly when the robot is reconstructed from the .RR2Bot file.  The easy solution is to just get roof of the copy.  I’m still playing around with stuff so it may or may not stay, depending on if we need it to show the damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on December 20, 2019, 06:11:01 PM
also while i'm here, can i request the ability to run a weapon off of multiple motors? this would help tremendously with trying to make more compact robots.

Were you thinking two motors, both turning the same belt?  You can request it, but it really complicates the component assembly tree.  I.e. it isn't really a tree structure any more.  The .RR2bot file and component assembly is currently built around a tree structure.  Each component has exactly one parent component.  With the possibility of two parents, things become much more complicated.
that's what i meant and that's what i figured. unfortunate, but if you ever get the chance to try something like that i'd really be grateful.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on December 20, 2019, 09:12:33 PM
Regarding robot damage, I'd love for something like this to be possible:

https://youtu.be/RkvHRf6T8L4?t=74

I have no idea how hard that would be to model, but I'd love to be able to disintegrate other robots  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 06:59:08 AM
Regarding robot damage, I'd love for something like this to be possible:

https://youtu.be/RkvHRf6T8L4?t=74

I have no idea how hard that would be to model, but I'd love to be able to disintegrate other robots  :dance:

Loved that fight video!   :claping

If you built reps of the two robots in the workshop, I'm pretty sure you could recreate exactly that level of robot disintegration with the current (20December2019) build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 21, 2019, 07:01:25 AM
I've downloaded and started up the new version for a short bit. May be trying to build stuff with mirroring now in place.

What I did notice is an issue with the forward heading. Some of my bots (namely Stopping Power and Miasma) have it at 180 (or -180, doesn't matter), but every time the botlab is entered with one of them, the forward heading gets reset to 0.
Alternatively, you can rotate the bot. Select the chassis and do a 180. Heading to 0 and voila!
That is indeed a way, but the forward heading should still be fixed regardless. Otherwise it's a bit useless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 07:33:15 AM
New build: Damaged components do something very comical in that they float in place once they've been broken off... Kinda like it becomes a fighter bonus reward or something. The same also seems to happen with robots with a flipper piston system. They just kinda float around.

Hmmm.  Weird.  I thought I had fixed the instances of this.  Can you send me a .RR2Bot file to play with?

I also managed to try out the mirroring properly. AMAZING!! Exactly what I would have hoped for! Even with the wiring!! Bravo!
Would it be possible maybe to incorporate a similar system in the plot gird for custom components & the chassis? Maybe set up a rule with it that all start and end points need to be on their corresponding mirror axis/plane (so if you wanted to mirror on the X, the first and last points must be on the middle line on the X axis, if that makes sense?)

Thank you!  The mirroring system is @tashic's baby.  He deserves the kudos.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 21, 2019, 08:05:13 AM
Yeah, the floating parts happen a lot for me. It looks like an item drop tbh.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 21, 2019, 09:16:21 AM
Regarding robot damage, I'd love for something like this to be possible:

https://youtu.be/RkvHRf6T8L4?t=74

I have no idea how hard that would be to model, but I'd love to be able to disintegrate other robots  :dance:

Loved that fight video!   :claping

If you built reps of the two robots in the workshop, I'm pretty sure you could recreate exactly that level of robot disintegration with the current (20December2019) build.

What happened? It's blocked over here.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 21, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Regarding robot damage, I'd love for something like this to be possible:

https://youtu.be/RkvHRf6T8L4?t=74

I have no idea how hard that would be to model, but I'd love to be able to disintegrate other robots  :dance:

Loved that fight video!   :claping

If you built reps of the two robots in the workshop, I'm pretty sure you could recreate exactly that level of robot disintegration with the current (20December2019) build.

What happened? It's blocked over here.

This:

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-22-2015/odOeWB.gif)

There was not a whole lot left afterwards.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 10:35:44 AM
New build: Damaged components do something very comical in that they float in place once they've been broken off... Kinda like it becomes a fighter bonus reward or something. The same also seems to happen with robots with a flipper piston system. They just kinda float around.

Hmmm.  Weird.  I thought I had fixed the instances of this.  Can you send me a .RR2Bot file to play with?

Yeah, the floating parts happen a lot for me. It looks like an item drop tbh.

Me, Few days ago:
Note: The parts that are broken off still feel like they have moon gravity, and they still are immovable
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 11:07:26 AM

This:

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-22-2015/odOeWB.gif)

There was not a whole lot left afterwards.

Love it!  We would have to get rid of the three hit rule, or reduce the post-hit invulnerability time period, then add flames, but I think it is doable!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 21, 2019, 12:37:42 PM
Over the past week or so I've been working on integrating an open source mod api in to Robot Rumble that allows non-destructive mod injection using the Harmony Library. I just have a couple of technical questions to help with mod development in the future. I'll start for now with this one:

Do you know if there is a method that is called on each scene load outside of the default sceneLoaded event? I'm working on a roundabout fix for the resolution issue and it seems that a method that triggers (potentially on Awake()) on scene load is causing the resolution to be set incorrectly but I haven't been successful in finding it. Also its just occurred to me as I'm writing that such a global hook would be very useful for modding if it did exist.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 01:01:28 PM
Over the past week or so I've been working on integrating an open source mod api in to Robot Rumble that allows non-destructive mod injection using the Harmony Library. I just have a couple of technical questions to help with mod development in the future. I'll start for now with this one:

Do you know if there is a method that is called on each scene load outside of the default sceneLoaded event? I'm working on a roundabout fix for the resolution issue and it seems that a method that triggers (potentially on Awake()) on scene load is causing the resolution to be set incorrectly but I haven't been successful in finding it. Also its just occurred to me as I'm writing that such a global hook would be very useful for modding if it did exist.

I like it!  Let me take a look tonight/tomorrow.  I’m not in front of my computer right now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 01:05:52 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 

1.We still have the RR2 Component Modding Tool project on the back burner.  The idea is to make all of the in-game components using the tool.

2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.

Both of these have languished in the vaporware stage because we are down just @tashic and me for development.  Would you be interested in picking up one (or both) of these projects?  I would like to put them up on github when they are ready.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 01:23:38 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 
2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.
Im pretty sure you might be able to inject arenas into the game via mod. Or alternatively, an arena builder just like how bot builder works
I could make a mock up

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 01:35:47 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 
2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.
Im pretty sure you might be able to inject arenas into the game via mod. Or alternatively, an arena builder just like how bot builder works
I could make a mock up

I was thinking something more official.  Like using Unity to create arena AssetBundles that you can load from a directory.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 01:38:44 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 
2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.
Im pretty sure you might be able to inject arenas into the game via mod. Or alternatively, an arena builder just like how bot builder works
I could make a mock up

I was thinking something more official.  Like using Unity to create arena AssetBundles that you can load from a directory.

Idk how friendly would that be to inexperienced people.

P.S when you joining discord? That might be more communication friendly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 01:40:47 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 
2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.
Im pretty sure you might be able to inject arenas into the game via mod. Or alternatively, an arena builder just like how bot builder works
I could make a mock up

I was thinking something more official.  Like using Unity to create arena AssetBundles that you can load from a directory.

Idk how friendly would that be to inexperienced people.

But it would give unlimited creative freedom.  You could make literally anything that you could make in Unity.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 01:42:15 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 
2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.
Im pretty sure you might be able to inject arenas into the game via mod. Or alternatively, an arena builder just like how bot builder works
I could make a mock up

I was thinking something more official.  Like using Unity to create arena AssetBundles that you can load from a directory.

Idk how friendly would that be to inexperienced people.

But it would give unlimited creative freedom.  You could make literally anything that you could make in Unity.

It would, but again, with no proper tutorial, most people wont use it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
Building a bespoke arena builder would be quite a bit more work.  We played around with the idea a bit initially, but didn’t have enough developer time to do it.  It really needs a dedicated person working on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
Building a bespoke arena builder would be quite a bit more work.  We played around with the idea a bit initially, but didn’t have enough developer time to do it.  It really needs a dedicated person working on it.
I wonder if it would be easy to just copy everything from bot builder, just as a test
No mechanics, just simple geometries like the shapes section in bot builder.

Idk how hard is it for me to do it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 02:01:14 PM
I wonder if there is a runtime scene builder on the Unity asset store that we could use...

Edit:  Sorry, forgot to answer your question!  The botlab stuff is pretty robot-specific.  We would have to add quite a bit to make it useful as an arena tool.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
I wonder if there is a runtime scene builder on the Unity asset store that we could use...
Let me see what i can find

The botlab stuff is pretty robot-specific.  We would have to add quite a bit to make it useful as an arena tool.
EDIT: Maybe it should just be like early bot builder. It works, but its not functional as it doesnt save
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 21, 2019, 02:22:08 PM
What version of Unity is being used to build the game? (If at all relevant).

I might have a go at seeing how easy it would be for a beginner to create something for the game potentially.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 21, 2019, 02:54:16 PM
What version of Unity is being used to build the game? (If at all relevant).

I might have a go at seeing how easy it would be for a beginner to create something for the game potentially.

We are going to be switching to the latest 2018.4 version here in the next week.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 21, 2019, 03:04:25 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 

1.We still have the RR2 Component Modding Tool project on the back burner.  The idea is to make all of the in-game components using the tool.

2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.

Both of these have languished in the vaporware stage because we are down just @tashic and me for development.  Would you be interested in picking up one (or both) of these projects?  I would like to put them up on github when they are ready.

I mean if you have the start of the projects and can put up with me asking technical questions/asking for access to parts of the source of RR2 I'd be more than happy to take on these in my spare time.

Funnily enough my next question was going to be about implementing arenas as dynamically loaded AssetBundles so this is exactly what I had in mind for the future.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 21, 2019, 03:39:12 PM
Also, on the topic of modding: 

1.We still have the RR2 Component Modding Tool project on the back burner.  The idea is to make all of the in-game components using the tool.

2. We also could really use an open source arena builder tool.

Both of these have languished in the vaporware stage because we are down just @tashic and me for development.  Would you be interested in picking up one (or both) of these projects?  I would like to put them up on github when they are ready.

I mean if you have the start of the projects and can put up with me asking technical questions/asking for access to parts of the source of RR2 I'd be more than happy to take on these in my spare time.

Funnily enough my next question was going to be about implementing arenas as dynamically loaded AssetBundles so this is exactly what I had in mind for the future.
I kinda want to ask for that to see if i can do some stuff, but i dont think i want
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on December 21, 2019, 11:30:26 PM
Some more thoughts regarding damage, chassis hitpoints, and breaking apart components with reference to my previous post about disintegrating robots:

-Currently, the game mechanics are similar to Robot Arena 2, where players design a chassis that is most like a solid body onto which components are attached.

-In real life combat robot design, the chassis is not a solid block, but panels and components attached to a frame or unibody construction of some sort, covering other panels, components, and mounts for those components.  During combat, these panels and components are deformed and/or forcibly removed from the frame (also known as damage to the robot).

-The creative freedom currently allowed in Robot Rumble 2 allows for robots to be built out of custom parts much like they are in real life.  The only weird part about this is the base "chassis", which seems to have the robot's hit points for judging a KO.

As an experiment, I created a sort of egg beater-style vertical spinner robot that actually has a base chassis that makes up for a small part of the center of the robot.  The rest of the robot is composed of re-scaled shapes that are formed into body panels that cover the front, sides, and rear.  These are attached to base body panels which are themselves attached to the small chassis piece. 

While this method of construction is time-consuming and pretty KO-proof compared to what we're used to experiencing in RA2, I find the combat this creates a lot more satisfying.  For an example, I pitted my Tombstonesque horizontal bar-spinning robot against my beater-spinning robot created in this way and the destruction is just awesome!  I easily pick apart the wheels, the frame surrounding the spinner, then whoops the spinner breaks off!  Then repeated hits to the top and rear body panels just send them flying away, exposing the poor robots guts!

Am I the only one who's going to be building robots in this way from now on?  Because it's just fun being able to tear these things apart piece by piece!

One thing I don't quite understand is how the damage is working.  How does the material thickness slider affect the damage a panel or weapon takes?  What about the physical size of the panel or weapon, or its material?  I know the system is totally a WIP, though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 22, 2019, 03:40:38 AM
Some more thoughts regarding damage, chassis hitpoints, and breaking apart components with reference to my previous post about disintegrating robots:

-Currently, the game mechanics are similar to Robot Arena 2, where players design a chassis that is most like a solid body onto which components are attached.

-In real life combat robot design, the chassis is not a solid block, but panels and components attached to a frame or unibody construction of some sort, covering other panels, components, and mounts for those components.  During combat, these panels and components are deformed and/or forcibly removed from the frame (also known as damage to the robot).

-The creative freedom currently allowed in Robot Rumble 2 allows for robots to be built out of custom parts much like they are in real life.  The only weird part about this is the base "chassis", which seems to have the robot's hit points for judging a KO.

As an experiment, I created a sort of egg beater-style vertical spinner robot that actually has a base chassis that makes up for a small part of the center of the robot.  The rest of the robot is composed of re-scaled shapes that are formed into body panels that cover the front, sides, and rear.  These are attached to base body panels which are themselves attached to the small chassis piece. 

While this method of construction is time-consuming and pretty KO-proof compared to what we're used to experiencing in RA2, I find the combat this creates a lot more satisfying.  For an example, I pitted my Tombstonesque horizontal bar-spinning robot against my beater-spinning robot created in this way and the destruction is just awesome!  I easily pick apart the wheels, the frame surrounding the spinner, then whoops the spinner breaks off!  Then repeated hits to the top and rear body panels just send them flying away, exposing the poor robots guts!

Am I the only one who's going to be building robots in this way from now on?  Because it's just fun being able to tear these things apart piece by piece!

One thing I don't quite understand is how the damage is working.  How does the material thickness slider affect the damage a panel or weapon takes?  What about the physical size of the panel or weapon, or its material?  I know the system is totally a WIP, though.

They are fully redoing the damage, and in future, you might be able to slit open a chassis, for now it is as it is. Now the method of construction you are using, is very popular in ra2 and it is known as extednderbot building.

The damage, is a mixed bag, slider is self explanitory, i guess the hp is calculated by this formula: material thickmess*material itslef*component cubed size=HP. Idk if this is true, but im speculating that it is built like that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 22, 2019, 10:09:31 AM
I noticed that when you break a spinner, the physics get all screwy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on December 22, 2019, 12:09:56 PM
They are fully redoing the damage, and in future, you might be able to slit open a chassis, for now it is as it is. Now the method of construction you are using, is very popular in ra2 and it is known as extednderbot building.

The damage, is a mixed bag, slider is self explanitory, i guess the hp is calculated by this formula: material thickmess*material itslef*component cubed size=HP. Idk if this is true, but im speculating that it is built like that

I've been around this scene for so long yet I'm still a newb and not hip with how people are building their stuff.  Thank you for confirming that  :thumbup  I'm glad I'm not the only one who's thinking about bot building like this!  I'm going to redo all my bots in this fashion.  I just wish the "house" bots were built like this.  I just like metal carnage (metalnage?).

Can components mounted directly to the chassis be broken off, or are they invincible like in RA2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 22, 2019, 12:16:17 PM
Can components mounted directly to the chassis be broken off, or are they invincible like in RA2?
They can be broken off, unless they are motors for some reason
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 22, 2019, 01:45:28 PM
I’ve had motors break before, but it’s glitchy af
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 22, 2019, 05:26:08 PM
The problems in my existing bots are only getting more numerous as I keep testing. :baffled:
It's impossible to make Panic Attack capable of steering fast enough to rotate 360 degrees inside 10 seconds, S3 is under reversed gravity on one side so it balances on the weapon and the other wheel at all times, and my shell-drum bot is incapable of rotating horizontally at all once it starts its weapon, and the weapon can never be stopped - even once it gets broken off completely the effect remains.

I haven't worked on any other broken bot besides Panic Attack yet, because it ideally needs to be present to defend the Parsec Rumble title, but this particular issue with Panic itself just isn't effected by anything.

I've tried different gearing, lifting the forks and skirts off the floor, replacing the back wheels with low friction alternatives, removing the back wheels entirely, removing the entire paint job to simplify the physics. No effect from any of those.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 22, 2019, 09:24:29 PM
I just noticed that any pieces broken off of a wheel don't have that moon gravity/item drop effect.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2019, 09:53:07 AM
Need to look at the broken off stuff again when I have some time this week.  I thought I had everything working properly in the 20December build.  So sorry about this guys!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2019, 11:03:32 AM
The problems in my existing bots are only getting more numerous as I keep testing. :baffled:
It's impossible to make Panic Attack capable of steering fast enough to rotate 360 degrees inside 10 seconds, S3 is under reversed gravity on one side so it balances on the weapon and the other wheel at all times, and my shell-drum bot is incapable of rotating horizontally at all once it starts its weapon, and the weapon can never be stopped - even once it gets broken off completely the effect remains.

I haven't worked on any other broken bot besides Panic Attack yet, because it ideally needs to be present to defend the Parsec Rumble title, but this particular issue with Panic itself just isn't effected by anything.

I've tried different gearing, lifting the forks and skirts off the floor, replacing the back wheels with low friction alternatives, removing the back wheels entirely, removing the entire paint job to simplify the physics. No effect from any of those.

By any chance do you still have the old version of Panic Attack to compare?  I am curious to see how much things slow compared to the newer, decorated version.  I suspect that all of the bits and pieces are adding up to significant CPU load.

I have a very rough idea on how to go about “flattening” the decorations at runtime.  I’m not sure if it will work, but it might help...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 23, 2019, 02:46:50 PM
The problems in my existing bots are only getting more numerous as I keep testing. :baffled:
It's impossible to make Panic Attack capable of steering fast enough to rotate 360 degrees inside 10 seconds, S3 is under reversed gravity on one side so it balances on the weapon and the other wheel at all times, and my shell-drum bot is incapable of rotating horizontally at all once it starts its weapon, and the weapon can never be stopped - even once it gets broken off completely the effect remains.

I haven't worked on any other broken bot besides Panic Attack yet, because it ideally needs to be present to defend the Parsec Rumble title, but this particular issue with Panic itself just isn't effected by anything.

I've tried different gearing, lifting the forks and skirts off the floor, replacing the back wheels with low friction alternatives, removing the back wheels entirely, removing the entire paint job to simplify the physics. No effect from any of those.

By any chance do you still have the old version of Panic Attack to compare?  I am curious to see how much things slow compared to the newer, decorated version.  I suspect that all of the bits and pieces are adding up to significant CPU load.

I have a very rough idea on how to go about “flattening” the decorations at runtime.  I’m not sure if it will work, but it might help...

Surprisingly, yes. It just occurred to me that the version I sent to Kix for the first PR Parsec tests is still on discord. This should be the first one I posted on my showcase, with the bare metal and the overly long skirts.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
I'll do a bit of testing with it myself too, but I don't anticipate the lack of paintwork having a noticeable effect on the physics. I tried removing all the decals from a copy of the current version, and that one wasn't helped.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 24, 2019, 12:57:09 AM
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 24, 2019, 04:53:33 AM
Oh yeah one thing that i figured out but forgot to tell.
When a wheel/weapon falls off spinning motor screws up the physics
AFAIK - When a part completely falls off, the motor will spin completely and gyro like hell.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 24, 2019, 04:55:24 AM
Oh yeah one thing that i figured out but forgot to tell.
When a wheel/weapon falls off spinning motor screws up the physics
AFAIK - When a part completely falls off, the motor will spin completely and gyro like hell.

This! My Dr Inferno rep has done it a few times. Quite comical watching him break dance lol.

Also, the gyro is messed up afterall. My drum bot Technetium is like severly gyro-ing.

Sorry to add to the list of whats wrong hahaha!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 06:59:59 AM
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.

FOUND IT!

The Weapon_Blur_Cylinder was still being added to the srimech on the newer version of Panic Attack.

This shouldn't be happening, but it was.

It turns out that I was making the check to see if the motor had angle limits (instead of spinning all the way around) too early in the robot reconstruction process.

In the end I created a workaround that checks to see if the motor EVER has angular limits on its hinge joint.  If so, then it will destroy the blur cylinder.

Thank you so much for sending both robots.  It was key to figuring out what was happening.  You are amazing!

The game is building now.  I will try to get an update out amidst the holiday festivities...

PS - Hopefully this build means no more wheel fixes! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 24, 2019, 07:03:20 AM
What's just occurred to me is that the issue might relate to both weapons technically being spinners as far as the game's concerned. It might struggle to deal with them being moved not on their axis of rotation.

EDIT: Okay... Now I'm confused. This old version works fine, but the modern version with all the decals removed doesn't.
The only practical differences between this and the unpainted modern version is that this version had motor-driven skirts because I didn't know sprung hinges were a thing, and everything is still wheel-fixed on this one.
But the modern one still had this issue when it was wheel-fixed.
So... could it be the sprung hinges?

EDIT 2: I just made a copy of one of the broken Panic Attacks, and swapped the hinged skirts for motor driven. That had no effect. So that isn't the difference. I guess... Maybe re-wheel-fix the weapons, see if that works?

EDIT 3: It was the absence of the wheel-fix. So it hasn't been rendered obsolete just yet, the current physics model is so unforgiving to low-geared spinners that motor-driven lifters still need the wheel-fix to avoid having their ability to steer nearly removed.

FOUND IT!

The Weapon_Blur_Cylinder was still being added to the srimech on the newer version of Panic Attack.

This shouldn't be happening, but it was.

It turns out that I was making the check to see if the motor had angle limits (instead of spinning all the way around) too early in the robot reconstruction process.

In the end I created a workaround that checks to see if the motor EVER has angular limits on its hinge joint.  If so, then it will destroy the blur cylinder.

Thank you so much for sending both robots.  It was key to figuring out what was happening.  You are amazing!

The game is building now.  I will try to get an update out amidst the holiday festivities...

PS - Hopefully this build means no more wheel fixes! :)

OMG I'm sorry but that is AMAZING!! It's annoyed me how axes, even thwakbots (like Toe Crusher) would get the cylinder blur! You are a legend!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 07:06:02 AM
New build is building right now.  While we wait:

[Changed] When a motor breaks off, the whole assembly comes as a single rigid object.  This eliminates some weird behavior where the motor is inside the chassis connected via a hinge joint to everything else outside the chassis.  The whole mess would just bounce around bizarrely.

[Changed] When a component is broken off, it is given a random velocity.  This should help eliminate the weird floating that is occurring for broken components.

[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

[Bug Fix] Eliminated the second copy of the chassis armor plates that weren't being scaled correctly when chassis was scaled.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem with the heading slider always snapping back to zero when you came back to the Robot Workshop.

[Bug Fix] Added Steel physics material to flywheel to prevent it from sliding all over the place when it breaks off.

[Bug Fix] If a motor has limits, the blur cylinder is no longer added.

NOTE - The above is making physics run faster for lots of robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 24, 2019, 07:41:28 AM
[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

Awww. That was unironically one of my favourite bugs from RA3 :(
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 24, 2019, 08:28:03 AM
New build is building right now.  While we wait:

[Changed] When a motor breaks off, the whole assembly comes as a single rigid object.  This eliminates some weird behavior where the motor is inside the chassis connected via a hinge joint to everything else outside the chassis.  The whole mess would just bounce around bizarrely.

[Changed] When a component is broken off, it is given a random velocity.  This should help eliminate the weird floating that is occurring for broken components.

[Bug Fix] Broken off objects no longer spin when you press a control button.

[Bug Fix] Eliminated the second copy of the chassis armor plates that weren't being scaled correctly when chassis was scaled.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem with the heading slider always snapping back to zero when you came back to the Robot Workshop.

[Bug Fix] Added Steel physics material to flywheel to prevent it from sliding all over the place when it breaks off.

[Bug Fix] If a motor has limits, the blur cylinder is no longer added.

NOTE - The above is making physics run faster for lots of robots.

The motor breaking change, alongside the blur cylinder fix is amazing. Great work!. Now go and enjoy the holidays, you madman
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 24, 2019, 09:19:19 AM
Very welcome changes and fixes. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on December 24, 2019, 11:47:25 AM
Once again, some exceptional work gone into this update.

It’s always exciting to see where this game will go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
The 24December build is up!

Look back a few posts for the bug fixes.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 24, 2019, 03:28:41 PM
Great work! Now I can enter the true Panic Attack (not about a cm out for size in the X and Y axis) into Parsec Rumble 2. :D
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 24, 2019, 03:30:55 PM
The 24December build is up!

Look back a few posts for the bug fixes.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This build has really done amazing work! when are we getting Chassis damage tho? Seeing that component is falling off, chassis damage shouldnt be too hard to implement
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 24, 2019, 05:18:48 PM
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 24, 2019, 07:00:15 PM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 24, 2019, 07:12:38 PM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 24, 2019, 07:20:26 PM
If a spinner is completely destroyed but the pulley remains, so does the blur cylinder. And it still does damage.
Seemed prudent to mention.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 11:11:31 PM
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(

Aauuugh!

I'm so sorry for that!  I will take a look when I have some time.  Do you notice that the wheel fixed versions of Panic Attack drive normally?

PS - These are the versions of Panic Attack that I am testing with.  They perform pretty similarly, except for the extra CPU/GPU load of the v2 version:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 11:15:43 PM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem

A thousand times yes!  I totally agree.  I think I might have a super-quick fix for this.  Just need to check the number of hit points on any shape "leaf" nodes on the tree.  If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.  That way it won't even register hits.

An incoming attack will just hit the collider of whatever the tiny bit is attached to.  Once that is destroyed, the whole thing should come off in one piece, including ALL of the tiny little attached bits.

Voila!

Again, this is just theory crafting, but I think it should work when I have a chance to sit down to it again in Unity.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 24, 2019, 11:24:41 PM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?

Holes.  I would love holes. *he says wistfully*

Just thinking about thinking about how to do mesh boolean subtraction makes my head hurt.  Maybe @tashic has some ideas on this.  He's smarter than I am.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 25, 2019, 02:28:39 AM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
ooh, yes please! Maybe add holes too?

Holes.  I would love holes. *he says wistfully*

Just thinking about thinking about how to do mesh boolean subtraction makes my head hurt.  Maybe @tashic has some ideas on this.  He's smarter than I am.

At the very least, some sort of "tube" shape would be nice, with a hole already in it. That way, we can construct hollowed-out flywheels and the outer ring can be one smooth, solid piece, instead of a bunch of smaller pieces that don't quite form a perfect circle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 25, 2019, 07:23:28 AM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.
Im sceptical about this. You see if a spinner is made out of small parts, that means that the spinner may not have collision where its needed, which will be a big problem. I recommended having an option to group parts together to have combined hp so that way atleast the whole weapon will fall off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 25, 2019, 11:02:47 AM
A thing we have been talking about on discord. There should be a function to fuse all the smaller part as a one part. Atleast on weapons only. The issue is that some amazing looking bots are made out of a lot of smaller pieces, including the weapon. Now evrn on 20%damage, they all fall off too easily because they mostly have less than steel 5 on them, and that can be a problem
If the hit points are super small, just disable their collider.
Im sceptical about this. You see if a spinner is made out of small parts, that means that the spinner may not have collision where its needed, which will be a big problem. I recommended having an option to group parts together to have combined hp so that way atleast the whole weapon will fall off

I think that’s what he was saying - the collider would just be turned off on the part in terms of when receiving damage, but the part can still collide and will deal damage to its parent part(s).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 25, 2019, 03:56:19 PM
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on December 25, 2019, 04:05:17 PM
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more

You actually took my idea. Cuck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 25, 2019, 04:54:31 PM
When will we get brushless motors? They would be more compact then brushed. However they would overheat. Now because overheating not a thing. Maybe atm, they would weigh more

You actually took my idea. Cuck
Someone had to write it :V
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 25, 2019, 05:19:22 PM
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 25, 2019, 06:27:43 PM
What exactly is community manager?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SagarisRA2 on December 25, 2019, 06:39:06 PM
What exactly is community manager?

I'm guessing it's the spokesperson of the community when it comes to feedback and voicing further improvements based on community preferences.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 25, 2019, 06:45:01 PM
Yo CJ, if you want someone to update the Twitter page, I can definitely do that on the weekends.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 25, 2019, 06:55:16 PM
Tbh i want to help, but im fine giving you feedback like we all are doing on gtm.




Now how about we talk about Chassis damage, part grouping, tube components and brushless motors?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 25, 2019, 08:00:14 PM
Ah... Turns out the need for the wheel-fix isn't quite gone for good.
I'm testing the Panic Attacks now. The ones without the fix perform just as well as the fixed ones in the test area, but in the actual battle arenas they still steer like motion sick cows. :(

Aauuugh!

I'm so sorry for that!  I will take a look when I have some time.  Do you notice that the wheel fixed versions of Panic Attack drive normally?

PS - These are the versions of Panic Attack that I am testing with.  They perform pretty similarly, except for the extra CPU/GPU load of the v2 version:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Yeah, the wheelfixed versions have normal handling everywhere.
These are the two versions of the current tournament model, wheel-fixed and not. I was gonna remove the paintwork from them for the sake of your CPU load, but this time - which surprised me given it never worked for the previous versions of the problem - removing the decals did actually fix the in-battle handling problem. So this time the decals do undoubtedly relate to the issue.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]    [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

At this point, I've been wondering if the problem might relate to the super-low gearing too.
So at this point, I imagine the issue would probably be mostly if not entirely fixed by the whole part grouping thing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 25, 2019, 09:29:00 PM
Tbh i want to help, but im fine giving you feedback like we all are doing on gtm.




Now how about we talk about Chassis damage, part grouping, tube components and brushless motors?

Love it!  :claping

I like the order that you put them.  Chassis damage is not too intimidating.  I just need to get the plates breaking off.  I like the idea of part grouping, but it will take some UI work.  Tubes and brushless motors are a little lower on my priority list, but totally doable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 26, 2019, 12:35:31 AM
Ah... Y'know I said less detailed Panic Attacks didn't need the wheelfix?
Only sometimes. It seems like the problem is still with either the double-gearbox or the total ratio of 125:1, because all it takes is a moderately complex opponent to push it over the edge back into passive ultra-gyro.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 26, 2019, 04:53:39 AM
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!

Would it be possible for us to contribute by, for example, submitting ideas or designs for house robots? Idk how many pre-built robots you want to have in the finished game, but more is always better, and across a wide range of weapon types and weight classes.

Mind you, maybe it's too early to be thinking about stuff like that, considering the number of breaking changes that keep getting introduced...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 06:01:41 AM
I'm hoping to ramp up development in 2020 and bring on a few more people to the official dev team.  It would be great to get things into a beta state by the end of 2020.

Community Manager
Component Modding Tool Developer

Is anyone interested in the above?  Any other ways that you have been dying to contribute?

Please send me a PM if you are interested!

Would it be possible for us to contribute by, for example, submitting ideas or designs for house robots? Idk how many pre-built robots you want to have in the finished game, but more is always better, and across a wide range of weapon types and weight classes.

Mind you, maybe it's too early to be thinking about stuff like that, considering the number of breaking changes that keep getting introduced...

House robot and arena design suggestions are always welcome. 

The problem with house robots is that they are currently built in the Unity editor.  They don't use the in-game Robot Workshop at all.  Every time we add a house robot, I have to make sure it works more-or-less the same as an equivalent robot in the Robot Workshop.  This is a MAJOR drain on my development time.  I always feel like I should be spending that time on making sure you can do things in the workshop and have them work in a battle scene.

That's why we need somebody working on the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  My vision for the tool is that you can build any components you want to any level of fidelity that you desire.  Because it is a workshop component, it will slot right into the workshop.  You can then use the parts to create any robot you want.

Example #1 - Lets say you want to build a tube with a hole.  Build it in the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  Then you could make robots with holes in them.
Example #2 - Imagine that you needed brushless motors.  They are incredibly powerful for their size and you really need them for the replica of your real-life beetlweight.  Build the motors you need in the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  Then you could make robots with brushless motors.
Example #3 - Imaging that there was this incredible real-life heavyweight with awesome paintwork and really cool actuating mechanisms.  Build its subassemblies in Blender, texture them in Substance Painter, then import all of the pieces into the game via the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  You could then assemble all the parts and use that amazing new robot in the game.

The bottom line is that a good RR2 Component Modding Tool could massively speed up the development of the game, and allow the community almost unlimited freedom to create new things.  We could really use a dedicated person working on it.

Any volunteers?  :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 06:11:05 AM

Yeah, the wheelfixed versions have normal handling everywhere.
These are the two versions of the current tournament model, wheel-fixed and not. I was gonna remove the paintwork from them for the sake of your CPU load, but this time - which surprised me given it never worked for the previous versions of the problem - removing the decals did actually fix the in-battle handling problem. So this time the decals do undoubtedly relate to the issue.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]    [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

At this point, I've been wondering if the problem might relate to the super-low gearing too.
So at this point, I imagine the issue would probably be mostly if not entirely fixed by the whole part grouping thing.

Taking a look now...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 07:08:24 AM
Tbh id like to help make the game but my unity knowledge is nearly non existent, i genuinely wouldnt know where to start
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 07:45:12 AM
Ah... Y'know I said less detailed Panic Attacks didn't need the wheelfix?
Only sometimes. It seems like the problem is still with either the double-gearbox or the total ratio of 125:1, because all it takes is a moderately complex opponent to push it over the edge back into passive ultra-gyro.

I'm taking a look at both now.  A few things I've noticed so far:

1. Neither of them have any Blur Cylinders at runtime.  This is good.  It means that any colliders that exist are there because you placed them there.
2. Both robots are running at roughly the same frame rate.  This is good.  It means that they appear to be processing similarly.
3. The regular version has 189 components.  The wheel fixed version has 191 components.  This is consistent with the wheel fixed version having 2 additional foam wheels.
4. Both versions are running at about 15 frames per second when in battle with one other robot in the editor.  This is uncomfortably slow for me.
5. Most of the frame time is spent doing physics calculations.

Some thoughts:

- 15 frames per second is an unpleasant experience even when things are working properly.  At this speed the AI control signals cause a ton of overshoot and the robots drive like they are intoxicated.
- I suspect that the problems you are seeing with the weird gyro might be due to the fact that the physics system frame rate is dropping so far that colliders find themselves teleported into physically impossible positions.  The system then tries to recover by applying ridiculously large impulses.
- I think the key to increasing the frame rate will be to reduce the number of colliders.  I suspect Panic Attack might have 300+ colliders.  I would like to cut the total number down to around 30.
- For a first cut, I'm going to try disabling all of the colliders for components with extremely small numbers of hit points.  If it works, then I might pursue @kix's suggestion to group components.  I would like to try the automatic fix first before we commit to building more UI and reworking the .RR2Bot file.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 08:20:16 AM
So it looks like the automatic solution is working!

I set an arbitrary limit (5) on hit points.  Most of the robot's colliders are now disabled.  Time spent in physics has dropped significantly.

Moreover, when something big breaks off, it takes all of its tiny little decorations with it.  I will try to get something up for you guys to see today.

Maybe we can do another slider to control the number of hit points before a component becomes breakable in settings?

Please note that this is just a temporary fix.  It will only work for a single weight class.  Beetleweights have way fewer hit points, so the entire robot would be disabled.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
Maybe we can do another slider to control the number of hit points before a component becomes breakable in settings?
Maybe an option like in gmod? This would be similar where You select all small parts, press group button and then select main part and press group to button, and then it would group stuff together. The collision would be there, unless you maybe check disable collision. I could draw up a mockup. It would be simpler then that slider i guess.

Oh yeah for the chassis hp. You said panels falling apart. Maybe atm just do like in older version where hp would decrease after a hit. Panel breaking could be implemented at a later time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 09:41:43 AM
I put the collider disabling feature up as the 26December build.  I am seeing significantly reduced time spent doing physics calculations for Panic Attack.  Hopefully this makes robots work better across the board.

CyarSkirata, please let me know if this fixes the driving issues you were seeing before!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

EDIT:  With the smaller colliders disabled in this build, we are getting component grouping for free.  Things are breaking off as entire assemblies rather than as tiny little parts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 26, 2019, 11:42:40 AM
The driving issues are just as bad as before, if not worse. D:
The skirts now come off way too easily too, just a couple of low speed collisions of the kind they're designed for can snap off the whole thing. And the part that actually runs on the floor doesn't have collisions, so makes the whole skirt pointless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
The driving issues are just as bad as before, if not worse. D:
The skirts now come off way too easily too, just a couple of low speed collisions of the kind they're designed for can snap off the whole thing. And the part that actually runs on the floor doesn't have collisions, so makes the whole skirt pointless.

Shoot! Need to work on things some more.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 02:31:10 PM
Ok so the new update is bad. It breaks robots with thin and small parts, it seems like you tried to do something with group coupling and it didnt really worked that well.
Can i recommend this? Its a longer thing so it is in spoiler below:


Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 02:58:11 PM
Ok so the new update is bad. It breaks robots with thin and small parts, it seems like you tried to do something with group coupling and it didnt really worked that well.
Can i recommend this? Its a longer thing so it is in spoiler below:



Give me a bit to think about it. 

I think it is important to disable as many of the really small colliders as possible in order to minimize the CPU load. 

I think I would like a hybrid approach where you set a threshold and it shows you which parts are too small to add colliders.  With this approach you can always bump up the thickness or switch materials for a particular part to ensure its collider stays enabled.   

This would also allow you to do a bunch of parts really quickly, and reset things instantly. In the case of Panic Attack, this would make it possible to rapidly adjust over 100 small pieces.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 03:09:54 PM
Ok so the new update is bad. It breaks robots with thin and small parts, it seems like you tried to do something with group coupling and it didnt really worked that well.
Can i recommend this? Its a longer thing so it is in spoiler below:


I think I would like a hybrid approach where you set a threshold and it shows you which parts are too small to add colliders.  With this approach you can always bump up the thickness or switch materials for a particular part to ensure its collider stays enabled.
Tbh im not really a fan of this, lets say theoretically that you need a small part to be functional , but the game wont allow that because its too small. Atm the tip of the wedges for cyar's panic attack are not working as they dont have collision. Thats why i recommended that, and people over at RA2 central discord liked the idea. (we usually talk about rr2 improvements there)

Worst case scenario: Make a material called decorative, it would have a 0kg multiplier and it would remove collision, also it wouid be good because then it would fall off when the part that its connected to would fall off.

Im still liking my idea more, as then we could fix the issue where spinners with a lot of small parts would be fragile
There has been talks about the abuse of that where you could nocolide/group the whole bot
Now here are some solutions to that:
A: "can't group components to the chassis" and "can't group parts that aren't attached" seems like this would fix most issues
B: Limit the grouping of parts to 10 parts per group
C: If a part is on an axle, it could be only grouped to other parts on that specific axle
D: either boolean addition (grouping) or boolean subtraction (making holes)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 26, 2019, 03:41:54 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 04:26:36 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
Oh so like you can build a bar in there made out of multiple shapes then save it as a one shape?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 26, 2019, 04:35:10 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
Oh so like you can build a bar in there made out of multiple shapes then save it as a one shape?
Exactly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 06:32:42 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.

That’s the idea behind the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  The big advantage to the tool is that you can do things that aren’t possible using the existing tool, like make game engine-optimized parts: a proper high-poly to low poly workflow + PBR texturing.  Building good-looking stuff with the existing in-game tools means that the parts are going to have way too many polygons and way too many physics colliders to be performant in the game.  I want the game to be playable on laptops.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 26, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Worst case scenario: Make a material called decorative, it would have a 0kg multiplier and it would remove collision, also it wouid be good because then it would fall off when the part that its connected to would fall off.

Im still liking my idea more, as then we could fix the issue where spinners with a lot of small parts would be fragile

Ooo!!!  Great idea! I can make a “decorative” material and get this up and running in very short order.

Lets try it first.  The rest is going to take some work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on December 26, 2019, 06:52:57 PM
I just think its a good idea to focus on producing the Component Modding Tool. It seems to produce a long term fix rather than a short that is gonna be changed later
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 26, 2019, 07:07:58 PM
I just think its a good idea to focus on producing the Component Modding Tool. It seems to produce a long term fix rather than a short that is gonna be changed later
Yeah i guess that should be a big focus rn
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 27, 2019, 02:34:58 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
I don’t know how well this would work, but with my current knowledge, couldn’t you create .partfiles kinda like what you do with the robots? Then you can share your designs that way. Also, all components you make or import could show up under custom weapons and custom extras. This is what I mainly had in mind.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 27, 2019, 03:56:31 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
I don’t know how well this would work, but with my current knowledge, couldn’t you create .partfiles kinda like what you do with the robots? Then you can share your designs that way. Also, all components you make or import could show up under custom weapons and custom extras. This is what I mainly had in mind.

That’s the basic idea behind the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  We are starting work on it and the Arena Builder at the same time. 

The intent for the tools is for them to be separate Unity projects that you can use to create pretty much anything you want, export it as a unity assetbundle, then import it into the game.  The big advantages with this approach is that you will be able to create literally anything you want, limited only by your 3D modeling skills. 

Also, you should be able to use the new tools to create parts that are optimized for the game.  If you were to use our existing in-game tool to create an intricate compound assembly it is going to be extremely inefficient and run very slowly.  I am already having lots of problems trying to run Panic Attack on my laptop.  This isn’t the fault of the robot.  It is an amazing robot.  It is a problem with the tool which can’t handle making really complicated things that run efficiently.

I recommend using Blender to create things.  It’s free and has a massive open source development effort.  It already does everything people have asked for, and is the tool we have been using to create robot parts for the game,
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 27, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
What if we added a workshop for components? What is made in that workshop could have combined hp, and you could also apply that part to multiple bots without having to do it all again. You could then share stuff like letters and logos with the community.
I don’t know how well this would work, but with my current knowledge, couldn’t you create .partfiles kinda like what you do with the robots? Then you can share your designs that way. Also, all components you make or import could show up under custom weapons and custom extras. This is what I mainly had in mind.

That’s the basic idea behind the RR2 Component Modding Tool.  We are starting work on it and the Arena Builder at the same time. 

The intent for the tools is for them to be separate Unity projects that you can use to create pretty much anything you want, export it as a unity assetbundle, then import it into the game.  The big advantages with this approach is that you will be able to create literally anything you want, limited only by your 3D modeling skills. 

Also, you should be able to use the new tools to create parts that are optimized for the game.  If you were to use our existing in-game tool to create an intricate compound assembly it is going to be extremely inefficient and run very slowly.  I am already having lots of problems trying to run Panic Attack on my laptop.  This isn’t the fault of the robot.  It is an amazing robot.  It is a problem with the tool which can’t handle making really complicated things that run efficiently.

I recommend using Blender to create things.  It’s free and has a massive open source development effort.  It already does everything people have asked for, and is the tool we have been using to create robot parts for the game,
Osh** we gonna make stuff in blender? Thats epic actually, i can make some good sh**
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 27, 2019, 04:33:09 PM
I thought you might like the idea.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 27, 2019, 05:57:56 PM
You say that people are gonna be limited by their skills only. Well if thats the case, i might be able to make vrushless motors then!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 27, 2019, 06:53:37 PM
You say that people are gonna be limited by their skills only. Well if thats the case, i might be able to make vrushless motors then!

Exactly. 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on December 27, 2019, 07:12:48 PM
the one thing that may be a tad concering, is that if there's no limits to the stats and stuff those components can have, what's preventing someone from having an invincible tinyaf brushless motor with more power than an E-Tek, or having some kind of giant SMEEEEEEE wedge with 3 trillions of HP, you may want some kind of limiters so that some people don't start making an arms race of making the dumbest, most overpowered sh**

oh and other thing, is there any way to fix the bug where the AI just goes in circles like an idiot when it drives over the closed pit ?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 27, 2019, 07:33:36 PM
the one thing that may be a tad concering, is that if there's no limits to the stats and stuff those components can have, what's preventing someone from having an invincible tinyaf brushless motor with more power than an E-Tek, or having some kind of giant SMEEEEEEE wedge with 3 trillions of HP, you may want some kind of limiters so that some people don't start making an arms race of making the dumbest, most overpowered sh**

oh and other thing, is there any way to fix the bug where the AI just goes in circles like an idiot when it drives over the closed pit ?

I dunno.  How do mods work in any other game?

I suppose people are free to create their own experience with the game as they see fit.  It is kind of self-limiting though.  A crazy powerful motor would be completely undrivable.  A piece with infinite health would quickly make the game trivial and pointless.  You could say the same thing about the millions of Super Mario Maker levels that are completely impossible.  That is part of the fun for some people.

For tournaments it is simple enough to give people a set of acceptable components.

As far as the AI question goes, I’m aware of it.  AI is going to take a complete rewrite as well, now that I (kind of) know what I’m doing.  We can’t begin to tackle AI until all of the inputs are ready.  Specifically the damage system.  AI needs to be smart enough to attack things intelligently, and this is entirely dependent on being able to see which components have what amount of damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 28, 2019, 02:56:52 AM
I guess community will help, and maybe like in ra2, there would be a community hand picked pack with motors and stuff. Parts i persume could be tuned iingame currently with material selection and thickness selection


Oh i guess hou should put out an update where the small parts have collision out, and with decorative material (decorative is not necessary, but fixing small parts is urgent)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 07:10:08 AM
I'm building the following changes:

[Added] Added a new armor material called "Decoration".  This material has very low density and almost zero strength.

[Changed] Reduced the hit point threshold for disabling colliders to 0.001 HP.

With the two changes above, it is now possible to "paint" a robot using shapes.  If a shape is assigned the "decoration" material its physics collider will be ignored and it will break off with its parent component.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 08:12:19 AM
The 28December build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This one should allow you to apply decorations without physics colliders. 

Next up is getting chassis armor plates to break off.

Enjoy!  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 28, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
The 28December build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This one should allow you to apply decorations without physics colliders. 

Next up is getting chassis armor plates to break off.

Enjoy!  :smile:

Oh this is actually pretty amazing
On the flip side
I genuinely dont think that you should use the weapon cylinder blur to register damage, it is inaccurate
Also when a part from a weapon falls off, seems like the collision is still there and it will still deal damage (even though ithe part is on the floor), that also does not cause the spinners to be unbalanced, as more parts fall off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on December 28, 2019, 10:19:13 AM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 28, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
The decoration material is a brilliant idea!! My only suggestion would maybe be an additional Decorative_Steel (and maybe Polycarb) for small yet shiny/transparents decorations such as Rivets and Warning Lights :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 28, 2019, 11:46:12 AM
The decoration material is a brilliant idea!! My only suggestion would maybe be an additional Decorative_Steel (and maybe Polycarb) for small yet shiny/transparents decorations such as Rivets and Warning Lights :)
I havent tested it yet but pls tell me that decorative material doesn't have that dreadful bumpmapping on itself like alu/uhmw/and poly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on December 28, 2019, 01:05:03 PM
The decoration material is a brilliant idea!! My only suggestion would maybe be an additional Decorative_Steel (and maybe Polycarb) for small yet shiny/transparents decorations such as Rivets and Warning Lights :)
I havent tested it yet but pls tell me that decorative material doesn't have that dreadful bumpmapping on itself like alu/uhmw/and poly

No bumpmap! It's very smooth and plain.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 02:06:14 PM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.

Shoot!  Let me look into this.  I definitely want to keep the spinners.  I just need to iron out the bugs like ghost spinners.  It shouldn’t be too hard.  I just need to find and fix all the wired edge cases.

What is the moon gravity issue?  Can you send me an .RR2Bot file to play with?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 28, 2019, 02:21:23 PM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.

Shoot!  Let me look into this.  I definitely want to keep the spinners.  I just need to iron out the bugs like ghost spinners.  It shouldn’t be too hard.  I just need to find and fix all the wired edge cases.

What is the moon gravity issue?  Can you send me an .RR2Bot file to play with?
Moon gravity is nothing much really, its just an thing when you attach a wheel then the weapon on it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 03:36:24 PM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.

Shoot!  Let me look into this.  I definitely want to keep the spinners.  I just need to iron out the bugs like ghost spinners.  It shouldn’t be too hard.  I just need to find and fix all the wired edge cases.

What is the moon gravity issue?  Can you send me an .RR2Bot file to play with?
Moon gravity is nothing much really, its just an thing when you attach a wheel then the weapon on it

I’m not sure I understand.  If you attach a wheel, there shouldn’t be a blur cylinder or any of the associated physics.  Does something weird happen when an object breaks off?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 28, 2019, 04:09:42 PM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.

Shoot!  Let me look into this.  I definitely want to keep the spinners.  I just need to iron out the bugs like ghost spinners.  It shouldn’t be too hard.  I just need to find and fix all the wired edge cases.

What is the moon gravity issue?  Can you send me an .RR2Bot file to play with?
Moon gravity is nothing much really, its just an thing when you attach a wheel then the weapon on it

I’m not sure I understand.  If you attach a wheel, there shouldn’t be a blur cylinder or any of the associated physics.  Does something weird happen when an object breaks off?
Im pretty sure that he means that the gyro is increased
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 28, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Im pretty sure that he means that the gyro is increased

Ohhh!  Now I understand what you are talking about!

The gyroscopic effects that we are seeing are a direct result of the high angular momentum of the spinners that we are making.  I put in a compensator called a “Spinner Mass Reducer” to reduce this effect and improve drivability for spinners.  If you add a wheel, a spinner mass reducer is not added, so you get the bad gyroscopic effects.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 28, 2019, 08:00:57 PM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mouldy on December 28, 2019, 08:04:00 PM
Is there a tutorial for how to get a bot going? Still not great with bot building after all this time :D

Edit: Oops, found one. Thanks Cyar <3
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 06:57:03 AM
Yeah so ever since the 24th build when the weapon falls off, the blur is still there. Even worse, the blur does damage... at this point, I gotta decide between moon gravity and ghost spinners for SvL. I mean... I could always use October 10, but people probably won’t like that. I’m at a dilemma at this point.

Working on the blur cylinder problem now...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 08:26:37 AM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 29, 2019, 08:59:00 AM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
Huh nice
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 09:36:15 AM
Big changes coming this build:

[Temporary Fix] DESTROYED ALL BLUR CYLINDERS.  These will be reenabled when the blur cylinder shape calculation bug is fixed.

[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off.  Everything now breaks off together.

[Bug Fix] Weapon Blur Cylinders shapes are recalculated when a piece of a spinning part breaks off.  NOTE - There is an orientation bug in the calculation related to the fact that the "y" axis doesn't always point up, depending on how the part was originally placed onto the robot.  This needs to be fixed in the script!!!

---------------

The blur cylinder calculation script has a bug in it.  I think most of you guys have noticed this already that sometimes the cylinder is oriented the wrong way.  This became painfully obvious now that the blur cylinder is recalculated every time a part breaks off.  With this change, spinners are now completely unplayable due to the bug.

I need to fix the bug to continue on, but for now I just disabled blur cylinders entirely.

The new build should be available sometime today.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 29, 2019, 09:39:33 AM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 29, 2019, 09:50:35 AM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

I like whats powerrave is saying. I alsao noticed that when making bots that use tiny chassis, and are built from a frame, the game becomes more challenging. You need to pay attention to a lot more parts
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 10:25:21 AM

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?

The shape does affect how the robot responds to hits, driving, and its ability to get underneath another robot.  Right now there is only an extremely rudimentary "glancing blow" calculation.  This new build will completely disable the "glancing blow" computation because it relies on the shape of the Blur Cylinder.  For this build all Blur Cylinders are destroyed.

In fact, most of the in-game damage is done via Blur Cylinders, so for this build most robots won't receive very much damage, if any.

Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

I like this idea!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 10:26:59 AM
The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 29, 2019, 11:52:50 AM
The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Tbh i dont think that the damage should be calculated by blur cylinder. I think KJ should cause damage, that way rammers might also do damage

Tested the build and i gotta say that the damage is pretty great, i can actually feel comfortable enough to do 50-100% multiplier, whereas with the blur i used only 20%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 29, 2019, 03:14:31 PM
The 29December build is up! 

No Blur Cylinders in this build!  This also means (almost) no damage, since most of the damage is calculated from blur cylinders.

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Tbh i dont think that the damage should be calculated by blur cylinder. I think KJ should cause damage, that way rammers might also do damage

Tested the build and i gotta say that the damage is pretty great, i can actually feel comfortable enough to do 50-100% multiplier, whereas with the blur i used only 20%

The blur cylinder does four things, but maybe we can take a look at what we like and don't like:

1. Visual blur - a visual representation of the cylinder created by rotating an object around an axis.
2. Cylinder collider - a trigger collider that registers when something overlaps the space of the revolved object.
3. Pushout - applying impulse to the robot and whatever it hits.
4. Bite - Determining the exact amount of "bite" when the spinner hits another object.

Energy (kJ contained in the spinner) is handled by the SpinnerMassReducer script.  This script is on a different object and is not part of the blur cylinder.

If we eliminated the blur cylinder entirely, we would sacrifice #1, 2, and 3 above. 

I think the biggest deal would be #3.  Without the blur cylinder, we would be relying on the random teleportation of the rapidly spinning bar, suddenly appearing inside another object.  Pushout would occur in a completely random direction.  Instead of a stick hitting a ball forward, the stick could hit the ball at extremely high speed backward, or directly outward, or really any random direction.

It is possible to do #4 without the Blur Cylinder collider.  I would need to compute this manually via another method.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 29, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
The blur cylinder does four things, but maybe we can take a look at what we like and don't like:

1. Visual blur - a visual representation of the cylinder created by rotating an object around an axis.
2. Cylinder collider - a trigger collider that registers when something overlaps the space of the revolved object.
3. Pushout - applying impulse to the robot and whatever it hits.
4. Bite - Determining the exact amount of "bite" when the spinner hits another object.
1# From what ive heard, noone likes the blur at all
2# I need more explanations as atm i dont see it too useful
3# Is impulse really necessary
4# Im sure you could do it easily, what counts as bite?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on December 29, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
1# From what ive heard, noone likes the blur at all
2# I need more explanations as atm i dont see it too useful
3# Is impulse really necessary
4# Im sure you could do it easily, what counts as bite?
1) the blur could do with being a bit toned down imo, but I personally like it
2) the blur circle creates a single large, non-rotating, collider object. This is a lot easier to track; is more accurate; and less resource intensive than tracking the colliders of each individual part of a spinner. This solves the issue that comes with rapid rotation (or translation) of an object within the game engine in that it never actually travels between point A and B in between frames and just teleports instantly between them. Without the cylinder anything between A and B wouldn't count as being hit and thus could "phase" through the weapon in an unrealistic fashion
3) impulse is what makes the bots fly apart on hit, essentially the simulation of force/physics
4) "bite" in this instance would be the depth of the impact on the other bot, I believe
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 29, 2019, 05:35:11 PM
Personally I think the blur cylinder is a good way to go, but it needs to be worked on to perfect it. May not be easy, but I do think it's the better way to go. Kupa is pretty much on point I believe.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 29, 2019, 06:11:11 PM
3) impulse is what makes the bots fly apart on hit, essentially the simulation of force/physics
Well i got that wron XD
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on December 30, 2019, 04:31:06 AM
Maybe we can use an invisible blur
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 30, 2019, 06:06:51 AM
Maybe we can use an invisible blur

I think you might be right.  I personally need to see the blur cylinder so that I can tell if the shape is correct.  Once I know that it is generating correctly (it isn’t right now), then I can disable the mesh renderer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on December 30, 2019, 07:01:52 AM
Maybe we can use an invisible blur

I think you might be right.  I personally need to see the blur cylinder so that I can tell if the shape is correct.  Once I know that it is generating correctly (it isn’t right now), then I can disable the mesh renderer.
Or perhaps (later) make an option where it can be turned on and off, or via a slider to determine how visible it is.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on December 31, 2019, 07:42:59 PM
I just tried out Panic Attack with the new decorative material. While it doesn't break its own physics anymore, and does have functional skirts, if it fights a complex opponent the problem returns. :(

So... Better, but still issues.

Phew!  The rest is just a matter of tweaking numbers until it feels right.  My thought for the first draft of this is to compute object hit points based on the energy absorption capabilities of the part.  Something like 1 HP = 1 Joule

Thinking more about how the skirt should break:

The skirt should be extremely resistant to damage from spinners because of its shape.  It should deflect blows upward instead of absorbing energy.  It should be extremely fragile if hit from underneath by a vertical spinner.

I think I can accomplish this generically by computing the incidence angle of any spinner hits.  Glancing blows should bounce off.
That would honestly be pretty cool. Reading this, I take it that currently the shape of, lets say the front armor, doesn't matter too much?


Another thing I would personally like to note, unrelated to the damage stuff, is in the workshop. Sometimes I want to do or edit something on the underside of the bot. The table there then kinda gets in the way. Would have to zoom in a lot on the bot to actually see it then.
While one could technically rotate the entire robot for a bit to work on the underside, just moving the camera there is just easier. Could it be done to see through the table if the camera is under it? Make it transparent or fade out of sight perhaps.

Bear in mind: we're talking skirts here, not wedgelets. They were only designed to beat wedges.
The only time I can think of that a Panic Attack took a skirt hit from a horizontal (Corkscrew in S6) the skirt flew off instantly. Yes it was PA Gold, but the skirts were the same basic design.

I figure the most realistic situation for skirts like that would be that they really can't take a hit from spinners, but can withstand anything else. Perhaps if there was some way of setting them up to be completely invulnerable to damage from hits below a certain level, but beyond that threshold a single impact is enough?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 08:25:53 AM
Let me think on this a bit.

I finally fixed the bug of the blur cylinder shape recalculating incorrectly after a hit.

The next thing is that I would like to try to figure out some rules for weapon bite.  My goal for this is to make it very difficult to bust off a chassis shape plate if you hit it in the middle with a spinner, but relatively easier if you catch an edge.  In particular, we stopped building polycarbonate robots for this reason at our school. 

I want polycarbonate to be extremely damage resistant if you hit in the middle with a spinner but to blow apart if you catch an edge with a spinner. 

UHMW should be incredibly resistant to spinners from both edge hits and almost invulnerable from the middle, but extremely vulnerable if you hit it with a non-spinning thing like a piercer (puncture) or a hammer (deflection causing the bolts to pop out).

If someone is lucky enough to catch the edge of the skirt with their spinner then the skirt should rip off.  Otherwise, depending on the material it might not get enough bite to do anything.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 08:33:27 AM
New build on its way!

[Restored] Blur Cylinders have been reenabled.

[Bug Fix] Blur Cylinder shape creation now works correctly, even after a robot takes a hit.  The problem was that when the blur cylinder was recalculated after a part falls off, the shape creator was not ignoring invisible meshes.

[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.

[Bug Fix] Weapon Blur Cylinders shapes are recalculated when a piece of a spinning part breaks off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 01, 2020, 09:48:15 AM
[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.
Does that mean that the part with the lowest hp, lets say on a spinner will cause the whole thing to fall off? If so, yikes
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 09:55:34 AM
The new build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 09:57:38 AM
[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.
Does that mean that the part with the lowest hp, lets say on a spinner will cause the whole thing to fall off? If so, yikes

Not necessarily, though that could be the case.  It means that when you build a spinner you need to make sure the base part is relatively large and can take a hit.

Otherwise, just like in real life, if you build something tiny and attach a bunch of stuff to the tiny part it will snap the whole thing off.

Edit: You have to actually hit the tiny part to damage it.  If you have a bunch of other things farther out then they are likely to be hit first.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 01, 2020, 12:15:50 PM
[Changed] When the first part on a rigidbody goes to <0 HP, the previous component is broken off. Everything now breaks off together.
Does that mean that the part with the lowest hp, lets say on a spinner will cause the whole thing to fall off? If so, yikes

Not necessarily, though that could be the case.  It means that when you build a spinner you need to make sure the base part is relatively large and can take a hit.

Otherwise, just like in real life, if you build something tiny and attach a bunch of stuff to the tiny part it will snap the whole thing off.

Edit: You have to actually hit the tiny part to damage it.  If you have a bunch of other things farther out then they are likely to be hit first.
Oh i just figured out what it means. Yeah it works.
One issue throughout the last few builds. IRL, if you break a part of a spinner, like a tooth lets say, the bot would become unbalanced. In the game, if half a blade that weighs... Lets say 15 kilos breaks off, the bot does not get unbalanced.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Ooo.  Interesting.  I have a center of mass script I could use for that.  I like it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 01, 2020, 12:49:58 PM
Ooo.  Interesting.  I have a center of mass script I could use for that.  I like it!
Ya also, is it possible to make an option where the cylinder blur is invisible in the settigns? or atleast opacity settings, because Cylinder Blur can work even with 100%Transparency
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 3g on January 01, 2020, 02:09:47 PM
One thing about the damage system. I've noticed that when you have the motor+gearbox then a wheel, when the wheels come off during the fight they are still attached to the gearbox. But the gearbox should stay attached to the motor and just the wheel should come off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 01, 2020, 06:51:33 PM
I've found that with the blur, when a bot slowly approaches my shell spinner, the shell always suddenly stops spinning and gets ripped up. But the problem didn't appear in the 29th build
And sometimes the weapons still get stuck together then the weapon parts would be torn apart.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2020, 07:54:37 PM
Thanks for testing the shell spinner!  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?  I need to work on spinner bite.

Right now I have oversimplified things and assume that spinners will always come to a complete stop, dumping all of their kinetic energy on a single hit.  For a spinner with lots of angular momentum like a shell spinner this is a bad model of reality.  I need some heavy spinners like your to test with when I make changes to this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 01, 2020, 08:02:18 PM
Thanks for testing the shell spinner!  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?  I need to work on spinner bite.

Right now I have oversimplified things and assume that spinners will always come to a complete stop, dumping all of their kinetic energy on a single hit.  For a spinner with lots of angular momentum like a shell spinner this is a bad model of reality.  I need some heavy spinners like your to test with when I make changes to this.
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 02, 2020, 02:40:32 AM
I've had an issue for a little while now with one of my bots. There are two parts of its front wedge that I could only practically build by using giant wedge sides that are mostly inside the bot's chassis.
Issue being that when those wedge sides get broken off separately to the main wedge part, they often end up rattling around inside the robot, which results in it having mobility issues even worse than some of my Panic Attack variants due to the way broken parts move.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 02, 2020, 06:49:36 AM
I've had an issue for a little while now with one of my bots. There are two parts of its front wedge that I could only practically build by using giant wedge sides that are mostly inside the bot's chassis.
Issue being that when those wedge sides get broken off separately to the main wedge part, they often end up rattling around inside the robot, which results in it having mobility issues even worse than some of my Panic Attack variants due to the way broken parts move.

Is there a way to re-engineer the robot so that the problem goes away?  Alternatively, is this something that could be solved with special components using the RR2 Component Modding Tool?

I'm hesitant to try to implement a fix when one might consider broken parts interfering with mobility part of the challenge of the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 02, 2020, 06:49:52 AM
Thanks for testing the shell spinner!  Would you mind sending me the .RR2Bot file?  I need to work on spinner bite.

Right now I have oversimplified things and assume that spinners will always come to a complete stop, dumping all of their kinetic energy on a single hit.  For a spinner with lots of angular momentum like a shell spinner this is a bad model of reality.  I need some heavy spinners like your to test with when I make changes to this.
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Awesome!  Thank you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 02, 2020, 07:02:46 AM
Ooo.  Interesting.  I have a center of mass script I could use for that.  I like it!
Ya also, is it possible to make an option where the cylinder blur is invisible in the settigns? or atleast opacity settings, because Cylinder Blur can work even with 100%Transparency

I am convinced.  I was playing with min440303's shell spinner.  It is conical in shape, but the blur cylinder is not.  The cylinder performs fine physics-wise but looks absolutely terrible.

Disabling the mesh renderer (visuals) now...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 02, 2020, 03:20:48 PM
I've had an issue for a little while now with one of my bots. There are two parts of its front wedge that I could only practically build by using giant wedge sides that are mostly inside the bot's chassis.
Issue being that when those wedge sides get broken off separately to the main wedge part, they often end up rattling around inside the robot, which results in it having mobility issues even worse than some of my Panic Attack variants due to the way broken parts move.

Is there a way to re-engineer the robot so that the problem goes away?  Alternatively, is this something that could be solved with special components using the RR2 Component Modding Tool?

I'm hesitant to try to implement a fix when one might consider broken parts interfering with mobility part of the challenge of the game.

Possible, but it'll be incredibly fiddly, we're talking millimetre precision here.
I'd be fine if it were just throwing off the weight distribution, but the problem is that once it's detached from the robot, it starts actively and severely resisting all movement of any kind, despite now being completely inside the bot; as in completely incapable of interacting with anything on the outside.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 02, 2020, 06:45:14 PM
I wonder if it is hitting the wheels and stopping them from spinning?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 03, 2020, 12:11:41 AM
No. They're at the opposite end of the bot, and on the outside.
It feels like the cause is the weird way broken parts move to prevent them from flying everywhere.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 02:04:08 PM
I've found that with the blur, when a bot slowly approaches my shell spinner, the shell always suddenly stops spinning and gets ripped up. But the problem didn't appear in the 29th build
And sometimes the weapons still get stuck together then the weapon parts would be torn apart.

I just fixed the issue where when the blur cylinder touches something it gets rid of all of its kinetic energy.  Now it only slows down a little, depending on how much KE was spent damaging something.  A perfectly elastic collision now doesn't slow down the spinner at all.

The bug fix should be up in a new build shortly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 02:21:23 PM
New build coming soon:

[Added] Added on/off buttons to toggle the center workbench in the pause menu, in case it obstructs the view under the robot.

[Changed] Disabled visual representation of Blur Cylinders. I would like to have some sort of indication of blur, but the existing blur cylinders look bad for many robots.

[Changed] The game now asks if the player wants to delete the mirror version of the selected component as well (only if it actually has a mirror version and if it doesn't have other components attached to it). This way people don't have to remove both components one by one.

[Changed] Center of mass of a spinner is now recalculated as the spinner loses pieces.  Spinners balance should now change as spinners lose bits.

[Bug Fix] Rotating bases for robots now use deltaTime to keep them going at the same speed no matter the fps.

[Bug Fix] Spinners no longer come to a complete stop when they hit something.  On a spinner hit, the angular velocity of the spinner is reduced based on the amount of damage dealt to either the spinner or to the target. Damage dealt = kinetic energy lost.

[Bug Fix] When a component breaks off, it no longer takes its motor or pulley with it.

[Bug Fix] If all of the components are broken off of a spinning assembly, the mass of the spinning assembly is set to 0.01 kg, instead of just breaking off the entire assembly. This prevents the assembly from having substantial rotating mass and severely impacting drivability.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 03, 2020, 02:53:58 PM
Ooh cool. Could it also be possible to add a button that disables the HUD in a match?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 03:45:46 PM
The 03January build is up!

I'm going to have to slow down after this one.  School starts on Monday!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 03, 2020, 04:14:53 PM
The 03January build is up!

I'm going to have to slow down after this one.  School starts on Monday!
Do that man, atm im testing this build but it seems to be great, link tho?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 03, 2020, 04:15:51 PM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 04:32:35 PM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:
EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

Oh no.  I forgot to take wheels into account in the recalculation of center of mass when stuff gets broken off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 03, 2020, 04:41:17 PM
Ok so ive tested this and
the good: Unbalancing small parts seems okay. It deffo gives fairness into play.
the bad:
3 times match footage of bad stuff:
https://youtu.be/xMVlMroLfNw (https://youtu.be/xMVlMroLfNw)
1st match: Hits seem to be very unstable physics wise, you can see the bots teleporting.
2nd match: Apparently, where there is a hole in a spinner, the bot (or parts that are connected to it) will clip into the hole, and to... well you will see
3rd match: You can see some big hits are are solid physics wise, but have no impact really.

when a whole spinner breaks off, the motor cant be turned off for the spinner, and the bot cant be controlled at all

oh and self damage is again a thing, my spinner  hit the floor and it broke off...

This too: The wheels seem to lose their position when "havok" (sudden bot teleporting) happens, and they need to return to their position again, but it takes time
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622944371494486016/662789868199346187/2020.01.03-23.49_01.mp4 (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622944371494486016/662789868199346187/2020.01.03-23.49_01.mp4)

Ok everying havoks
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622944371494486016/662790901994618881/unknown.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 03, 2020, 04:52:34 PM
At this point all I’m needing for SvL S2 to happen is the Jan 1 build in terms of physics and non-glitchyness, but with the invisible blur cylinder, a no-HUD option, and chassis damage potentially with a slider. Oh, and the secret project.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 05:09:11 PM
I’m pulling out the center of mass calculations that I did this afternoon. I will have a clean version up tomorrow morning.

Chassis damage will need to wait a bit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 03, 2020, 05:21:21 PM
I’m pulling out the center of mass calculations that I did this afternoon. I will have a clean version up tomorrow morning.

Chassis damage will need to wait a bit.
Will that fix clipping thru issues and random teleportation?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 03, 2020, 07:02:36 PM
I’m pulling out the center of mass calculations that I did this afternoon. I will have a clean version up tomorrow morning.

Chassis damage will need to wait a bit.
Will that fix clipping thru issues and random teleportation?

Shoot!  I just realized that the probable reason for the glitches is the fact that the blur cylinder isn’t disabled every hit like it was in previous builds.  Prior to this every hit the speed of the spinner was dropped to zero.  Now the speed only drops a little on most hits.  Thus the physics impulse is applied to the colliding objects continuously.  This will take some tweaking to fix.  Maybe a few back and forth iterations until we are satisfied.  We’ll see...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 04, 2020, 03:01:53 AM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

I've had that problem on S3 ever since the first build with part damage. Except on S3, it's the bot's default state of being. Regardless of damage, drive controls, and whether the weapon is running.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 04, 2020, 03:28:42 AM
In other news, the full unstoppable gyro after a spinner is broken has returned.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 04, 2020, 08:22:16 AM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

I've had that problem on S3 ever since the first build with part damage. Except on S3, it's the bot's default state of being. Regardless of damage, drive controls, and whether the weapon is running.

Would you mind sending me S3?  I would like to get the spinning-related quirks nailed out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 04, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

I've had that problem on S3 ever since the first build with part damage. Except on S3, it's the bot's default state of being. Regardless of damage, drive controls, and whether the weapon is running.

Would you mind sending me S3?  I would like to get the spinning-related quirks nailed out.

Sure.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 04, 2020, 01:31:22 PM
Back at it working on spinner impulse response...

I have broken things down into two categories: glancing blows and direct hits. 

Glancing blows should slow down the spinner, push the robots apart, and shoot sparks (if appropriate). 

Direct hits should put as much kinetic energy into crushing something as possible.  If the spinner has enough kinetic energy to break something, it will, slowing the spinner in the process.  If the spinner doesn’t have enough kinetic energy, it will come to a complete stop.  Reaction impulse will push the spinner backward and the target forward.

At some point I’m going to have to deal with the fact that hammers are going to have less than 1% of the kinetic energy of a spinner.  Damage will need to work differently.  I suppose that is a problem for the future though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 04, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Maybe anything that has limited angles set should have damage multiplied?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 04, 2020, 04:41:33 PM
At some point I’m going to have to deal with the fact that hammers are going to have less than 1% of the kinetic energy of a spinner.  Damage will need to work differently.  I suppose that is a problem for the future though.
If materials had puncture strength and tear strength, then hammers could do puncture damage and spinners could do tear damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 04, 2020, 06:43:19 PM
That’s kind of what I was thinking too.  I also would like to take into account ramming and being launched up high, then crashing into the ground.

Spinners are definitely the special case.  They have their own special collider.  I was hoping to do everything else without adding anything special.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 04, 2020, 09:07:39 PM

Would you mind sending me S3?  I would like to get the spinning-related quirks nailed out.

Sure.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

WOWSERS!

I haven't seen that problem before.  It seems like the center of mass of the robot is far off to the side for some reason.  Like maybe the whole robot got shifted sideways?  I don't know what the fix is.  It doesn't have anything to do with a blur cylinder.  Maybe some numbers need to be tweaked in the .RR2Bot file?

@tashic, any ideas?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 06, 2020, 08:00:45 AM
Just put up a new 06January2020 Bleeding Edge Build:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

The purpose of this build is to test driving with your big spinners.  I reduced the mass of all big spinners by about 90% from where they were this should significantly improve the stability of the simulation for big heavy spinners.

In particular, if you have a shell spinner let me know how it drives with this build!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 06, 2020, 03:46:44 PM
Just put up a new 06January2020 Bleeding Edge Build:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

The purpose of this build is to test driving with your big spinners.  I reduced the mass of all big spinners by about 90% from where they were this should significantly improve the stability of the simulation for big heavy spinners.

In particular, if you have a shell spinner let me know how it drives with this build!

Okay. So... First off, I imagine you already know this, but this test does make spinners nearly incapable of scoring effective hits.

My verts handle so well they're actually harder to aim because of the oversteer. Circumvolution in particular is pretty ridiculous, it almost feels like it steers faster than without the weapon, though that's probably just a psychological thing from me over-correcting.

My more standard horizontals basically feel like they don't have a weapon at all, in all aspects of handling, despite one of them having a "32 kg" flywheel with the torque to spin up in under 3 seconds.

My shell and my ring both have basically the same problem; they feel like they've already lost their weapons, and their opponents don't notice their hits at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 06, 2020, 04:02:41 PM
While I'm here, I might as well also mention: This test does actually fix the suicidal torque when I use the srimech on non-wheelfixed versions of Panic Attack. Unfortunately it also makes it too flimsy.

The issue still remains though with it being effectively unable to steer when I gear the weapons low without the wheelfix.
The problem there being that with the wheelfix, they go completely limp when put under any minor shock from moving parts of opponents. With both gearboxes on each weapon set to 10/1 - meaning a total ratio of 100/1, the effective limit of a single gearbox - they move fast enough that it isn't an issue in battle.
But the wheelfix makes them unuseable at the more authentic speed given by setting each gearbox at 10/0.4 - a speed at which the torque would have little enough of an effect that I'd be able to use the srimech effectively.

So right now the choice with the bot is between being nearly incapable of steering, and being nearly incapable of self-righting.  :dead:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 3g on January 06, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
Will you eventually add flamethrowers? It would be cool to have it, and be able to change the distance the fire can go, and colors.
Another thing, I think it would be a good idea to have eletrical damage like in RA2. Like, you hit something and a motor stops working, or a bot hits one of your wheels and that motor stops working. It's just an idea, but it would be nice tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 06, 2020, 08:37:57 PM
Just put up a new 06January2020 Bleeding Edge Build:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

The purpose of this build is to test driving with your big spinners.  I reduced the mass of all big spinners by about 90% from where they were this should significantly improve the stability of the simulation for big heavy spinners.

In particular, if you have a shell spinner let me know how it drives with this build!

Okay. So... First off, I imagine you already know this, but this test does make spinners nearly incapable of scoring effective hits.

You are correct.  I removed spinner hit impulse response from this build so that it would be easier to isolate driving problems.  I was finding that for Mental Breakdown the spinner had an annoying habit of bumping into the ground and making the robot really hard to drive.  I will put the spinner hit impulse response back in once we are happy with the driving feel.

My verts handle so well they're actually harder to aim because of the oversteer. Circumvolution in particular is pretty ridiculous, it almost feels like it steers faster than without the weapon, though that's probably just a psychological thing from me over-correcting.

My more standard horizontals basically feel like they don't have a weapon at all, in all aspects of handling, despite one of them having a "32 kg" flywheel with the torque to spin up in under 3 seconds.

My shell and my ring both have basically the same problem; they feel like they've already lost their weapons, and their opponents don't notice their hits at all.

This feedback is incredibly helpful!  Thank you!

I think I might have just solved the problem for good.  I am adding mass to the chassis in the original location of the spinner.  The amount of mass added is exactly equal to the amount of mass lost as the spinner gains speed.  The idea is to avoid the gyroscopic instability by reducing the the mass of the spinner, but to maintain the weight and inertia of the robot overall.

Thank you thank you for testing with your robots!

New build is on its way tomorrow morning!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 06, 2020, 08:45:57 PM
While I'm here, I might as well also mention: This test does actually fix the suicidal torque when I use the srimech on non-wheelfixed versions of Panic Attack. Unfortunately it also makes it too flimsy.

The issue still remains though with it being effectively unable to steer when I gear the weapons low without the wheelfix.
The problem there being that with the wheelfix, they go completely limp when put under any minor shock from moving parts of opponents. With both gearboxes on each weapon set to 10/1 - meaning a total ratio of 100/1, the effective limit of a single gearbox - they move fast enough that it isn't an issue in battle.
But the wheelfix makes them unuseable at the more authentic speed given by setting each gearbox at 10/0.4 - a speed at which the torque would have little enough of an effect that I'd be able to use the srimech effectively.

So right now the choice with the bot is between being nearly incapable of steering, and being nearly incapable of self-righting.  :dead:

Do you have limits set on the srimech motor?  The wheelfix shouldn't actually do anything if that is the case.  If the code sees that limits are set, it should treat it exactly the same as if a wheel is attached.  I just checked both versions of Panic Attack you sent, and neither of them have a Spinner Mass Reducer -- both have limits set on the motor.  Both versions should behave exactly the same.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 07, 2020, 02:59:54 AM
While I'm here, I might as well also mention: This test does actually fix the suicidal torque when I use the srimech on non-wheelfixed versions of Panic Attack. Unfortunately it also makes it too flimsy.

The issue still remains though with it being effectively unable to steer when I gear the weapons low without the wheelfix.
The problem there being that with the wheelfix, they go completely limp when put under any minor shock from moving parts of opponents. With both gearboxes on each weapon set to 10/1 - meaning a total ratio of 100/1, the effective limit of a single gearbox - they move fast enough that it isn't an issue in battle.
But the wheelfix makes them unuseable at the more authentic speed given by setting each gearbox at 10/0.4 - a speed at which the torque would have little enough of an effect that I'd be able to use the srimech effectively.

So right now the choice with the bot is between being nearly incapable of steering, and being nearly incapable of self-righting.  :dead:

Do you have limits set on the srimech motor?  The wheelfix shouldn't actually do anything if that is the case.  If the code sees that limits are set, it should treat it exactly the same as if a wheel is attached.  I just checked both versions of Panic Attack you sent, and neither of them have a Spinner Mass Reducer -- both have limits set on the motor.  Both versions should behave exactly the same.

Yup. Limits are set. Both do the exact same 90 degree arc, but the non-wheelfixed one runs better, while being kinda flimsy.

Make sure all four weapon gearboxes on the non-wheelfixed one are set to 10/1, to match the wheelfixed one, then put each of them in the test area and give the srimech a waggle.
If your simulation is running roughly the same as mine, then on the jan 6 build you should see the non-wheelfixed version twitch faintly (reasonably good), while the wheelfixed one pivots clear into the air (practically kills the robot in battle.)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 07, 2020, 05:36:31 AM

Yup. Limits are set. Both do the exact same 90 degree arc, but the non-wheelfixed one runs better, while being kinda flimsy.

Make sure all four weapon gearboxes on the non-wheelfixed one are set to 10/1, to match the wheelfixed one, then put each of them in the test area and give the srimech a waggle.
If your simulation is running roughly the same as mine, then on the jan 6 build you should see the non-wheelfixed version twitch faintly (reasonably good), while the wheelfixed one pivots clear into the air (practically kills the robot in battle.)

Shoot.  The work I am doing right now shouldn't affect the way these robots are handled, nor should it treat them any differently.  All I have been doing for the past two weeks has been spinner stuff.  I will try fiddling with the two robots as you have suggested to see if I can find any differences in the way they are reconstructed for combat...

I just put up the 07January2020 bleeding edge build.  Would you mind taking a look at the driving again for your horizontal and vertical spinners?

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

For this build, I added the makeup mass to the chassis.  The overall mass of the robot shouldn't change even when the spinner RPM increases and its mass drops.  This should mean that the robot's inertia and weight should remain the same even when the spinner is spinning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 07, 2020, 06:08:54 AM
Here's what I'm seeing for both "Panic Attack" and "Panic Attack WF".  I can't really tell a difference between the two versions.  Both versions were capable of lifting the 100 kg crate with both the lifting forks and the srimechs.

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/PanicAttackSrimech.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 07, 2020, 03:43:33 PM
New build coming soon!

[Restored] Spinner collision impulse response is now back to 50% of the value it had in the late-December builds.  In those builds, all of the spinner's angular momentum was converted into linear momentum via P  = L / radius.  Converting only 50% of the angular momentum into linear momentum feels about right to me for "good hits".   Please let me know if hits feel good!

[Added] Added sparks for spinner hits against steel.

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/sparks.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 07, 2020, 04:35:49 PM
Oh that looks satisfying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 07, 2020, 07:20:05 PM
The 07January2020 Alpha Build is up on itch.io!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

I'm really excited about this one.  Please let me know how driving and spinner hits feel!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 07, 2020, 09:35:46 PM
Honestly the hits is kinda feeble to me.
And the sparks look nice but a bit weird
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 3g on January 07, 2020, 10:39:14 PM
So basically all of my bots have lost their gyro with this new build, even the ones with huge spinners. And it was working fine in the Jan 01 build
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 04:41:45 AM
Ok so tested the new build.
The good:
-Sparks actually are great.
The bad:
-Gyro is non existant
-Driving seems to be lower and more sluggish than the previous builds
-The hits seem to be mixed bag. My hits seem to be okay, i can hit the bot and the weapon will not slow down immensly. Some bots fail to do that
-When a disc/bar spinner hits the ground it loses all the torque and the bot doesnt even react properly, its like the bar weighs 0 kilos. Craplectric ant self right like that anymore, it just tumbles until it self rights, even tho the spinner is running at 150+ mph when it hits the ground.
-You can see this in the vids below:
Old build:
https://youtu.be/qabFoaLViC0 (https://youtu.be/qabFoaLViC0)
New build:
https://youtu.be/TQSuMP7w-4M (https://youtu.be/TQSuMP7w-4M)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 05:16:46 AM
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

'cause I'm thinking its SLIDER TIME!  :claping

I'm putting in a slider to control the maximum amount of spinner mass reduction.

I'm also thinking I need to increase the amount of kickback that occurs on a spinner glancing blow.  That should help a with the self-righting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 05:37:03 AM
Ok so tested the new build.
The good:
-Sparks actually are great.

I'm glad you like them!  They need some tweaking, but I thought they weren't bad for a first attempt.

The bad:
-Gyro is non existant

The slider should help with that.  I'm thinking that we put in a slider that goes from 0% - 50%.  In the 01January2020 build, I had minimum spinner masses of around 30%, depending on RPM.  In the current build my minimum spinner masses are around 1%.

-Driving seems to be lower and more sluggish than the previous builds

Now that the overall robot mass is kept constant, all robots should maintain their inertia.  We got use to the inertia dropping once the spinner got up to speed.  Maybe this explains the sluggishness?

-The hits seem to be mixed bag. My hits seem to be okay, i can hit the bot and the weapon will not slow down immensly. Some bots fail to do that

The hit response depends on bite.  If bite is small, then a glancing blow occurs and there isn't much kick.  If bite is big, then a "good hit" occurs and the spinner will stop instantly and create a large amount of kick (impulse).

-When a disc/bar spinner hits the ground it loses all the torque and the bot doesnt even react properly, its like the bar weighs 0 kilos. Craplectric ant self right like that anymore, it just tumbles until it self rights, even tho the spinner is running at 150+ mph when it hits the ground.

I'm planning to increase the kick on glancing blows.  This should help with the self-righting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 06:02:55 AM
So basically all of my bots have lost their gyro with this new build, even the ones with huge spinners. And it was working fine in the Jan 01 build

True!  The purpose of these recent builds is to see what happens when the mass of spinning objects is reduced to almost nothing.  This is true in pretty much every other game.  I think you are right -- having gyro is a good thing.  Maintaining mass at 100% does create all sorts of instability though, so it is a balancing act to drop the amount of mass until the problems go away.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 06:04:29 AM
Honestly the hits is kinda feeble to me.
And the sparks look nice but a bit weird

Buffing the kickback! :)

I have some good spark footage I need to look at again on my phone.  Just had the kids do some grinding with the angle grinder -- I'm thinking of trying to match that...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 07:09:24 AM
Ok so tested the new build.
The good:
-Sparks actually are great.

I'm glad you like them!  They need some tweaking, but I thought they weren't bad for a first attempt.

Well considering we didnt have sparks till now, they are really fine

The bad:
-Gyro is non existant

The slider should help with that.  I'm thinking that we put in a slider that goes from 0% - 50%.  In the 01January2020 build, I had minimum spinner masses of around 30%, depending on RPM.  In the current build my minimum spinner masses are around 1%.


Ayy another slider, i can mess with!

-Driving seems to be lower and more sluggish than the previous builds

Now that the overall robot mass is kept constant, all robots should maintain their inertia.  We got use to the inertia dropping once the spinner got up to speed.  Maybe this explains the sluggishness?


it kinda does, but if i gear up the motor (or down), in theory, the bot should drive faster, but in game the bot bounces

-The hits seem to be mixed bag. My hits seem to be okay, i can hit the bot and the weapon will not slow down immensly. Some bots fail to do that

The hit response depends on bite.  If bite is small, then a glancing blow occurs and there isn't much kick.  If bite is big, then a "good hit" occurs and the spinner will stop instantly and create a large amount of kick (impulse).


The issue is that there is no kick at all. You can hit the opponent, your disc will stop and the kick would be non existant. It just stops. In the vidd, Gaulin Hit Craplectric and the drisc just stopped,
Craplectric wasnt kicked, nor was Gaulin.

-When a disc/bar spinner hits the ground it loses all the torque and the bot doesnt even react properly, its like the bar weighs 0 kilos. Craplectric ant self right like that anymore, it just tumbles until it self rights, even tho the spinner is running at 150+ mph when it hits the ground.

I'm planning to increase the kick on glancing blows.  This should help with the self-righting.
I hope it does
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 07:49:00 AM
-Driving seems to be lower and more sluggish than the previous builds

Now that the overall robot mass is kept constant, all robots should maintain their inertia.  We got use to the inertia dropping once the spinner got up to speed.  Maybe this explains the sluggishness?


it kinda does, but if i gear up the motor (or down), in theory, the bot should drive faster, but in game the bot bounces


I just found (and fixed) a contributor to the problem.  My previous approach to compensating for the loss of spinner weight was to add an extra gravitational force at the location of the spinner.  I forgot to remove this when I added the Makeup Mass to the chassis.  The net result of having both is that the gravitational force on the spinner was twice as strong.  In my "Tombclone"-style spinner this meant that the spinner was pulled down hard, and the wheels weren't getting any grip.  Driving was incredibly sluggish.  With the extra gravity force removed the driving went back to normal.

Depending on the location and weight of the spinner, this could have either a small or large effect on the driving characteristics of a given robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 08, 2020, 08:05:16 AM
In theory, the less bite, the more sparks, and theyll also be propelled farther. In Kix's fight video, it looks like He's fighting with a saw...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 08, 2020, 12:28:16 PM
The sparks are lovely! Might need a slightly higher threshold for hits that produce them, but I think they're much needed! I also think I found when a spinner is knocked off, if the sparks where being emitted as it was happening they remain where the part broke off?

Certain bots also seem to float/rock, as if they weigh as much as a feather?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 08, 2020, 01:21:19 PM
It just occurred to me that the one spinner I forgot to test on the jan 6 build is my currently bug-riddled very early Barber-Ous clone (from back in the bugglebots build), which has been undriveable since part damage came in.

Having done that test now, it still has the same problems as always, despite the 10% weapon weight. Given it has steering troubles (before I even turn the weapon on) just about identical to un-wheelfixed Panic Attack, I'm starting to suspect they might both be victims of the same bug.

Here's the bot, Roller - I'm bad at coming up with names without specific inspiration :3 - incase it helps track the issue down for good.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Meanwhile, time to see if any of the bots fare better in the new build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 08, 2020, 02:01:16 PM
Ah... I can't test the new build, my PC can't extract the zip of Jan 7.
Says the archive is corrupt.

I've tried downloading again, hasn't helped.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 03:23:58 PM
Shoot!  Sorry about that.  I have a new build coming soon.  It has 3 new physics sliders.  These are going to be temporary.  Once we have tested driving and impacts on a bunch of different robots I am planning on removing the sliders.  Or swapping them out for something else.  Like damage effects. :)

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/physicssliders.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 04:00:29 PM
Stuff in the 08January2020 Build:

[Bug Fix] Disabled the extra gravitational torque added to spinners. This was originally added to compensate for the weight reduction that happened as spinners gained speed. Now that Makeup Mass is a thing, it is doubling the effective weight of the spinner and shifting the center of gravity so that wheel grip is adversely affected.

[Tweaked] Reduced duration of sparks to a single hit.

[Changed] Sparks are only emitted on glancing blows.

[Changed] Restored spinner collision impulse response to its previous value, 100% conversion of angular momentum into linear momentum. The only exception to this is when a part breaks off, in which case the linear impulse is dependent on how much energy is lost.

[Added] Clamped spinner mass reduction factor: massReductionFactor = Mathf.Clamp(RPMsPerMassReduction / currentRPM, minimumMassReduction, 1.0f);

[Added] Set default minimum mass reduction to 10%.

[Added] Sliders and settings support for "Spinner Pushout", "Spinner Impulse", and "Minimum Spinner Mass". This should allow playtesters to tweak the settings for driving and impact feel.

Spinner Pushout: This is the amount of radial impulse (push) applied when the spinner blur cylinder (no longer visible) overlaps something.  A big value pushes the spinner and the object apart more violently.

Spinner Impulse: This is the amount of tangential impulse (kick) applied when the spinner blur cylinder overlaps something.  A big value kicks the target forward and spinner backward.

Minimum Spinner Mass: This is the minimum percentage of mass a spinner can be reduced to.  Larger values increase gyroscopic effects.  Too much gyroscopic effects make robots unstable.  Please note that this instability is due to the limitations of a computer's physics engine.  In real life gyroscopic effects tend to make things more stable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 04:16:19 PM
[Changed] Sparks are only emitted on glancing blows.
Idea: More sparks = Bigger blows, like small hits would emit a tiny ammount of sparks and really big ones would emit lot of sparks. Will we also get sparks on alu material?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 08, 2020, 04:23:39 PM
[Changed] Sparks are only emitted on glancing blows.
Idea: More sparks = Bigger blows, like small hits would emit a tiny ammount of sparks and really big ones would emit lot of sparks. Will we also get sparks on alu material?

I agree, but don't worry about it for a couple of builds tbh. Just focus on getting this physics stuff sorted :)

And I wouldn't say so as aluminium doesn't spark in the same way steel would (in fact I don't think it sparks at all). I would maybe say when it gets to that point for materials like aluminium, plastic, ect. maybe just having chips/small debris instead of sparks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 04:27:18 PM
[Changed] Sparks are only emitted on glancing blows.
Idea: More sparks = Bigger blows, like small hits would emit a tiny ammount of sparks and really big ones would emit lot of sparks. Will we also get sparks on alu material?

I agree, but don't worry about it for a couple of builds tbh. Just focus on getting this physics stuff sorted :)

And I wouldn't say so as aluminium doesn't spark in the same way steel would (in fact I don't think it sparks at all). I would maybe say when it gets to that point for materials like aluminium, plastic, ect. maybe just having chips/small debris instead of sparks.
Huh alu might not actually spark yeah. Now i kinda wish we had titanium material in this game XD
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 04:28:15 PM
The 08January2020 build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 08, 2020, 04:28:33 PM
Huh alu might not actually spark yeah. Now i kinda wish we had titanium material in this game XD

Extra materials may be on the list for wayyy in the future.... :P

Anyway, I just tried the new build and personally I really like having all three physics sliders at about 2/3 of the way :P
Although I do find that the game now makes my laptop heat up like a mother----
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 08, 2020, 04:46:42 PM
[Changed] Sparks are only emitted on glancing blows.
Idea: More sparks = Bigger blows
I don’t think that’s the way to go. I’d prolly go with glancing blow= straight line of sparks, and big blow=more spread out sparks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 05:39:26 PM
ok ngl at 150/150/20% i feel like its great
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 05:54:43 PM
ok driving is still an issue:
https://youtu.be/axZQ24VtyHE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on January 08, 2020, 06:13:18 PM
I can't seem to select bots to play at all. Here's a screen recording of the issue below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3E-t8EGvg

I'm not sure when this started happening, as I haven't given RR2 a go in a good while and there's been a lot of software and hardware updates since the last time I got it to work. I'm currently on Windows 10 with an AMD RX 5700XT GPU with the latest video drivers. I'm on a dual monitor setup (one 1080p and one 4k), and the issue is the same no matter which monitor I have the game on, in fullscreen or in windowed, even if I disable one of the monitors.

Also, and more importantly, the music slider doesn't save it's setting between restarts which is REALLY annoying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 08, 2020, 06:59:31 PM
I can't seem to select bots to play at all. Here's a screen recording of the issue below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd3E-t8EGvg

I'm not sure when this started happening, as I haven't given RR2 a go in a good while and there's been a lot of software and hardware updates since the last time I got it to work. I'm currently on Windows 10 with an AMD RX 5700XT GPU with the latest video drivers. I'm on a dual monitor setup (one 1080p and one 4k), and the issue is the same no matter which monitor I have the game on, in fullscreen or in windowed, even if I disable one of the monitors.

Also, and more importantly, the music slider doesn't save it's setting between restarts which is REALLY annoying.
Aw **** i remember one if my friends having this issue. Idk how did we fix it. I think we wiped appdata game stuff, or he made a bot. As for the music, you can remove it by deleting musicstreams(or whatever is the 10mb one) file in the streaming folder in data folder.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 07:06:36 PM
ok driving is still an issue:

This one looks like the wheel joints aren’t stiff enough to hold up the robot.  Not sure what the fix is, but I would need to play with it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 07:08:37 PM
Badger, welcome back!

  Sorry about that!  I suspect that you have some old .RR2Bot files that the newer versions of the game can’t load.  I like the idea of clearing out the app data folder.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 08, 2020, 07:34:01 PM
Okay, so... In this build, my verts work quite well, but there are issues. Note, this is with the sliders set to what feels like the best middle ground for my bots.

Circumvolution seems to have too little gyro (large lightweight flywheel), I have a 30kg drum that seems to restrict its bot's mobility a tad too much, and smaller lighter drums seem too fragile.
Then of course there's Roller, which along with un-wheelfixed Panic Attack still has crippling problems even when idle.

Front and overhead horizontals seem better than they have been, but... maybe a little too hindered for mobility.

My shell and ring do better in this build than a lot of previous ones. They feel about right at the moment, the weapons being powerful but still as vulnerable as they should be to being rushed.

On the whole, impact seems pretty good for heavier weapons, but I feel like speed isn't imparting as much energy as it really should compared to mass, making the heavier spinners objectively better right now than the faster ones.

On a side note: when Wheely Big Cheese is inverted and fires its flipper, it launches itself close to three metres into the air. I'm wondering if this has to do with its wheels (which for authenticity and balance I never wheelfixed) being made lighter?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 08, 2020, 09:14:06 PM
Great feedback here!

By any chance are you using settings similar to kix?  I would like to settle on some values for these things so we can move on to other stuff.

Also, would someone mind asking the rest of the folks on Discord?  More opinions = better.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 09, 2020, 05:41:53 AM
ok driving is still an issue:

This one looks like the wheel joints aren’t stiff enough to hold up the robot.  Not sure what the fix is, but I would need to play with it.
This is what we refer to when the bots bounce. Way early builds didnt have the issue at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 05:51:38 AM
ok driving is still an issue:

This one looks like the wheel joints aren’t stiff enough to hold up the robot.  Not sure what the fix is, but I would need to play with it.
This is what we refer to when the bots bounce. Way early builds didnt have the issue at all.

Gotcha!  I thought the bouncing problem was related to vertical spinners.

Would you mind sending me that .RR2Bot file?  I don't have any similar robots to test with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 06:19:32 AM
Okay, so... In this build, my verts work quite well, but there are issues. Note, this is with the sliders set to what feels like the best middle ground for my bots.

Awesome!  What are your slider settings?

Circumvolution seems to have too little gyro (large lightweight flywheel), I have a 30kg drum that seems to restrict its bot's mobility a tad too much, and smaller lighter drums seem too fragile.

Ugh.  High speed is the bane of the physics simulation.  The faster the things spin the more cheating (mass drop) we have to do, and the larger the discrepancy between robots.

Then of course there's Roller, which along with un-wheelfixed Panic Attack still has crippling problems even when idle.

I will take a look at Roller again.  It might be that the robot is so old that it is beyond fixing...

Front and overhead horizontals seem better than they have been, but... maybe a little too hindered for mobility.

My shell and ring do better in this build than a lot of previous ones. They feel about right at the moment, the weapons being powerful but still as vulnerable as they should be to being rushed.

Woohoo!  Physics for the win!

On the whole, impact seems pretty good for heavier weapons, but I feel like speed isn't imparting as much energy as it really should compared to mass, making the heavier spinners objectively better right now than the faster ones.

My first guess is that this is related to spinner bite.  Fast spinners suffer from bite problems, and you really have to drive fast at an opponent to get a good bite.  That being said, spinners need to feel good in the game regardless of what spinners are like in real life.

On a side note: when Wheely Big Cheese is inverted and fires its flipper, it launches itself close to three metres into the air. I'm wondering if this has to do with its wheels (which for authenticity and balance I never wheelfixed) being made lighter?

I'm not sure.  The makeup mass added to the chassis should offset the light wheels.  However, we are working within the limitations of a discrete physics engine at 200 ticks per second.  This can create weird interactions between rigidbodies.  I.e. For an inverted robot the chassis pushes the wheels up, then a short time later the wheels pull the chassis up.  If you have a chain of more than 2 rigidbodies (srimech -> chassis -> wheels) stacked on top of each other this whole process can get really wonky with large impulses.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 09, 2020, 07:02:13 AM
Damage is at 50
Pushout is 0
Impulse is 100
Minimum mass is 50
That's the best way I could get all of my non-bugged spinners to be at least be useable, since they're mostly at extremes one way or the other.

As for the speed thing, the problem for me is with Circumvolution. 16kg flywheel, does less than 2000 RPM, but it's got such a large diameter that the teeth do 152mph. The way it's built they have no problems engaging with the target bot, but they just don't seem to impart much energy despite the whole wheel stopping.
I occasionally get a good throw, but mostly it just does little bounces. And where it used to lever the robot forward as it accelerated, it just doesn't now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 07:46:46 AM
Damage is at 50
Pushout is 0
Impulse is 100
Minimum mass is 50
That's the best way I could get all of my non-bugged spinners to be at least be useable, since they're mostly at extremes one way or the other.

As for the speed thing, the problem for me is with Circumvolution. 16kg flywheel, does less than 2000 RPM, but it's got such a large diameter that the teeth do 152mph. The way it's built they have no problems engaging with the target bot, but they just don't seem to impart much energy despite the whole wheel stopping.
I occasionally get a good throw, but mostly it just does little bounces. And where it used to lever the robot forward as it accelerated, it just doesn't now.

Have you tried 100% pushout? I'm a little uncomfortable setting it to 0%, for fear that we might have the situation where 2 spinners get locked inside each other.  Then again, that is unlikely as long as we keep the bite threshold low.  The "Good Hit" threshold is currently set to bite > 1 mm.

I haven't mentioned it before, but I have been tweaking one more number.  It represents how quickly the minimum mass is reached.  In the 2019 builds a 1000 RPM spinner would have 50% of its original mass.  In the 08January2020 build, a 200 RPM spinner would have 50% of its original mass.  I suspect the quicker mass drop is what is causing Circumvolution to no longer lever the robot forward upon sudden acceleration.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 09:36:44 AM
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build:

EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

By any chance is this working correctly in the 08January build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 10:01:42 AM
CyarSkirata,

I just had a look at Roller.  I think it is having problems with having so much mass being off-center from the robot.  I suspect that small rounding errors are throwing it off balance which cause the entire robot to wobble and shake.  The problem went away as I reduced the mass of the spinner below 10%.

We might be bumping up against a limitation of the physics engine.  The tradeoff seems to be between having spinners that feel nice and weighty, but are unstable, vs spinners that spin reliably without issues but don't have the gyroscopic effects.  We can always increase the "kick" when it hits something, so maybe it is a tradeoff we can live with?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 10:59:05 AM
So it appears that once angular momentum gets over approximately 2 kg * m^2 / second, things get wonky.  I've confirmed this on Mental Breakdown and Roller.  Mental Breakdown tops out at around 5, and Roller tops out at around 7.  It looks like I need to enforce mass reduction to make sure these levels aren't reached.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 09, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
My brain is melting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on January 09, 2020, 11:43:27 AM
My brain is melting.

Welcome to game development! It's 1% fun and 99% slamming your head against a concrete wall.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 09, 2020, 12:04:19 PM
We might be bumping up against a limitation of the physics engine.  The tradeoff seems to be between having spinners that feel nice and weighty, but are unstable, vs spinners that spin reliably without issues but don't have the gyroscopic effects.  We can always increase the "kick" when it hits something, so maybe it is a tradeoff we can live with?
I'm for unstable spinners, because they are more realistic.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 09, 2020, 12:55:13 PM
CyarSkirata,

I just had a look at Roller.  I think it is having problems with having so much mass being off-center from the robot.  I suspect that small rounding errors are throwing it off balance which cause the entire robot to wobble and shake.  The problem went away as I reduced the mass of the spinner below 10%.

We might be bumping up against a limitation of the physics engine.  The tradeoff seems to be between having spinners that feel nice and weighty, but are unstable, vs spinners that spin reliably without issues but don't have the gyroscopic effects.  We can always increase the "kick" when it hits something, so maybe it is a tradeoff we can live with?

I'm getting increasingly suspicious that Mac and PC simulate the game completely differently.
The problem I have is that even without turning on the weapons of Roller or un-fixed Panic Attack, they just can't steer well enough to so much as manoeuvre around the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 01:14:03 PM
I'm getting increasingly suspicious that Mac and PC simulate the game completely differently.
The problem I have is that even without turning on the weapons of Roller or un-fixed Panic Attack, they just can't steer well enough to so much as manoeuvre around the arena.

It is possible, though I suspect that it might be more related to CPU/GPU load than PC vs Mac.

On my computer if I keep Roller's weapon off I can drive around slowly.  It skids around more than I would like, but it is okay.  It gets all bumpy within a second after I turn on the weapon.

Both versions of Panic Attack that you sent me drive perfectly fine.  A little slow, but they are big robots.

The version of Mental Breakdown that kix sent me a while ago drives like an absolutely maniac.  Super-maneuverable.  It overshoots like crazy when the computer AI is driving.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 01:21:31 PM
We might be bumping up against a limitation of the physics engine.  The tradeoff seems to be between having spinners that feel nice and weighty, but are unstable, vs spinners that spin reliably without issues but don't have the gyroscopic effects.  We can always increase the "kick" when it hits something, so maybe it is a tradeoff we can live with?
I'm for unstable spinners, because they are more realistic.

The good:

I love the fact that we get crab walking and gyroscopic tilt for free as a result of the simulation.

The bad:

I hate the fact that spinners automatically unbalance themselves because of rounding errors.  Even if a spinner is perfectly balanced, if angular momentum gets too high a spinner will teleport from place to place as the restoring impulse overshoots every tick.

My challenge is that I would like to keep the good stuff but get rid of the bad stuff.  In Roller's case, the moment you turn on the spinner the robot starts hopping around.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 03:27:01 PM
kix,

I tried lowering Beta by lifting the wheels up 5 mm.  Sure enough, the bouncing stopped.  The issue is that the wheel joints have more compliance than they do in real life.  In the game, putting 50 kg or so sideways on the joint pushes the axle about 1 cm.  In real life the defection would be more like 0.001 cm.  To resolve this, the physics system overshoots slightly, causing a bounce effect.

Lowering the robot isn't a good solution, however, as it has the side effect of reducing the robots traction.  The lowered version of the robot accelerates significantly more slowly than the version you sent to me.

Unfortunately, I don't have a really good way to deal with this short of creating a "Magic Movement" system like exists in RA2 and RA3.  I really really don't want to do that.  I tried, and still have the code in place, but it completely changes the way robots drive. It complicates everything from driving to handling to weapons to component breakage.  I can try tweaking friction coefficient and the spring constant for the joints, but I don't know how far I can go without throwing off all other motion-related things in the game.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 04:00:47 PM
kix,

I spoke too soon.  I just tried increasing the Physics Velocity Solver Iteration Count from 4 to 10.  I'm seeing a small increase in CPU usage, and the jittering has mostly stopped.  I'll try to get this out to you for testing tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 09, 2020, 04:07:33 PM
kix,

I spoke too soon.  I just tried increasing the Physics Velocity Solver Iteration Count from 4 to 10.  I'm seeing a small increase in CPU usage, and the jittering has mostly stopped.  I'll try to get this out to you for testing tomorrow.
Tbh im not too fussed about the increased cpu usage as my pc is pretty good, but as long as bots stop doing the bounce thing ill be more than happy

What i also noticed about hammers/axes with motors, the bot forcefully jumps up. I thought that it was the hammer (the tip of it weighs alot), but when the tip fell off the bot did the same thing. I can show footage
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 09, 2020, 04:12:54 PM
Speaking about hammers, I tried to make a sawbot and this happened:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Could you please fix it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 09, 2020, 04:55:11 PM
Speaking about hammers, I tried to make a sawbot and this happened:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Could you please fix it?
Saws dont work. Idk when will the official fix happen, but atm a "fix" would be to attach the saw on a wheel
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 07:02:35 PM
Speaking about hammers, I tried to make a sawbot and this happened:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Could you please fix it?
Saws dont work. Idk when will the official fix happen, but atm a "fix" would be to attach the saw on a wheel

Hmm.  I hadn’t really thought about saws.  For now can you designate a small piece of the arm as “rubber” to prevent the generation of a blur cylinder on the arm?  Once this is done the saw itself can be built as normal.

Edit - Sawbots work fine.  They just follow the spinner rules, which means they don't really "saw" so much as "hit".

Edit #2 - I just noticed that telemetry isn't coming through properly for the spinner.  This is my first go at an overhead saw on an arm and I need to do a little digging to figure out why the telemetry isn't coming through correctly.  I did get the spinner up to speed and it sent one of the orange cones flying.  I haven't checked to see if it is doing damage correctly yet.

Here's Beta modified as a sawbot:

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/betasawbot.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 09, 2020, 09:01:19 PM
kix,

I just posted a new 09January bleeding edge build.  I think this one fixes the jitter for Beta.  All I did was changed the Default Velocity Solver Iterations in Physics Settings from 4 to 10.  Let me know what you think!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 09, 2020, 11:01:48 PM
I'm really liking the new build.  Although I think it takes too long to completely dismember a bot made of aluminum when using a heavy blade at 200% damage and 100% physics settings (not 200%)...

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Can't wait until the new damage system is implemented since it would save me time building my bots with individual chassis plates!  Although it allows me to make complex designs that are just fun to smash apart  heck

I did notice that when I smash two wheels off of a robot that it starts to jitter.  I'm not sure why, if that's just a computer-control thing or what.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 09, 2020, 11:41:21 PM
Seems bots become clumsy and hard to drive since Jan 7th build
Jan 3rd
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Jan 7th(also 8th)
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Plus: Almost everytime when two spinners crash into each other, they get stuck.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 3g on January 10, 2020, 12:20:22 AM
In my opinion, having no gyro takes away the experience of having the bot perform like it would IRL. For example, I have a replica of Black Dragon and Minotaur built in the game, gyro is the main thing for both bots to self-right
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 04:22:15 AM
kix,

I just posted a new 09January bleeding edge build.  I think this one fixes the jitter for Beta.  All I did was changed the Default Velocity Solver Iterations in Physics Settings from 4 to 10.  Let me know what you think!

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)
Well i do see some minor improvements, but noting really that stopped jittering completely
It does seem like the wheels have no traction and they jitter because of that. Now gearing down could help, but that also means that its gonna be way slower and more terrible to drive.

I will say it again. The pit lit part of the arena is the only part where you can drive the bots on, and they wouldnt jitter
https://youtu.be/JZlclD8dT0A (https://youtu.be/JZlclD8dT0A)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 06:18:19 AM
see some minor improvements, but noting really that stopped jittering completely
It does seem like the wheels have no traction and they jitter because of that. Now gearing down could help, but that also means that its gonna be way slower and more terrible to drive.

I will say it again. The pit lit part of the arena is the only part where you can drive the bots on, and they wouldnt jitter

You are right!  The arena floor was set to generic "Metal", while the pit is "Steel".  The only difference between the two materials is that "Metal" was set to use the minimum friction coefficient of the material, while "Steel" used the average.

I'm not seeing a difference in the jittering (which doesn't appear too bad on my computer), but am seeing a noticeable difference in traction.  Beta definitely has more traction with the Steel floor.  Maybe we need a "friction" slider in the physics tab?  :bigsmile:

I should have a bleeding edge build up with the change in the next 10 hours...

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 07:25:15 AM
see some minor improvements, but noting really that stopped jittering completely
It does seem like the wheels have no traction and they jitter because of that. Now gearing down could help, but that also means that its gonna be way slower and more terrible to drive.

I will say it again. The pit lit part of the arena is the only part where you can drive the bots on, and they wouldnt jitter

You are right!  The arena floor was set to generic "Metal", while the pit is "Steel".  The only difference between the two materials is that "Metal" was set to use the minimum friction coefficient of the material, while "Steel" used the average.

I'm not seeing a difference in the jittering (which doesn't appear too bad on my computer), but am seeing a noticeable difference in traction.  Beta definitely has more traction with the Steel floor.  Maybe we need a "friction" slider in the physics tab?  :bigsmile:

I should have a bleeding edge build up with the change in the next 10 hours...


As long as it stops the jittering, im more than happy. There are fair amount of people wit bots that jitter.worst case scenario, set the floor material to steel.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 10, 2020, 08:08:13 AM
I'm getting increasingly suspicious that Mac and PC simulate the game completely differently.
The problem I have is that even without turning on the weapons of Roller or un-fixed Panic Attack, they just can't steer well enough to so much as manoeuvre around the arena.

It is possible, though I suspect that it might be more related to CPU/GPU load than PC vs Mac.

On my computer if I keep Roller's weapon off I can drive around slowly.  It skids around more than I would like, but it is okay.  It gets all bumpy within a second after I turn on the weapon.

Both versions of Panic Attack that you sent me drive perfectly fine.  A little slow, but they are big robots.

The version of Mental Breakdown that kix sent me a while ago drives like an absolutely maniac.  Super-maneuverable.  It overshoots like crazy when the computer AI is driving.

This is what Roller and Panic Attack look like on my end.
Smooth simulation quality, but both bots are far more broken than you've described on your end.

But, one thing to note is that the test area doesn't break Panic Attack. Only actually going into battle does.
https://youtu.be/S2gJpr8WiM4
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 08:18:36 AM
I'm getting increasingly suspicious that Mac and PC simulate the game completely differently.
The problem I have is that even without turning on the weapons of Roller or un-fixed Panic Attack, they just can't steer well enough to so much as manoeuvre around the arena.

It is possible, though I suspect that it might be more related to CPU/GPU load than PC vs Mac.

On my computer if I keep Roller's weapon off I can drive around slowly.  It skids around more than I would like, but it is okay.  It gets all bumpy within a second after I turn on the weapon.

Both versions of Panic Attack that you sent me drive perfectly fine.  A little slow, but they are big robots.

The version of Mental Breakdown that kix sent me a while ago drives like an absolutely maniac.  Super-maneuverable.  It overshoots like crazy when the computer AI is driving.

This is what Roller and Panic Attack look like on my end.
Smooth simulation quality, but both bots are far more broken than you've described on your end.

But, one thing to note is that the test area doesn't break Panic Attack. Only actually going into battle does.
https://youtu.be/S2gJpr8WiM4
Try driving on the pit floor, it might work there
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 10, 2020, 09:29:00 AM
Already have. It doesn't.
The problem is with the weapons, not friction.

Or... Well. It hasn't helped when I've ended up there in battle. I'll try again going there deliberately once I'm back at my PC, to see if anything's happened to that in the current build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 09:36:53 AM
Building the "Steel" (instead of "Metal") floor build now.  I should have it up within the next few hours on /bleedingedgebuilds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 10, 2020, 09:48:16 AM
Cyar, send me the bot. I fixed NULL, so I might be able to fix Panic Attack.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 10:44:00 AM
The 10January bleeding edge build is up.  This build is identical to the 09January bleeding edge build, except the "Metal" floor has been replaced by a "Steel" floor.  This should improve traction in the arena.

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 10:54:01 AM
CyarSkirata,

Here are the 2 versions of Panic Attack that I have been testing with:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]    [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on January 10, 2020, 11:49:06 AM
Hey all!

So for the past couple weeks or so I've been working on bringing the previously discussed ArenaModTool to reality. cjbruce was kind enough to invite me to join the dev team in order to bring the idea to life so I thought it best to keep you guys updated on the progress!

At the moment most of the work has been done on the backend framework, so we have full export/import support for modded arenas. Next I need to work on updating the UI in the BattleBotSelection screen in order to dynamically add the new arena(s) to the menu and then work will commence on adding in extra features for the created arena(s) to bring them up to the same spec as the current built in arenas.

Here is a quick example of an arena I threw together in a couple of minutes with the bear minimum for it to be playable just to test things in the ModTool:
(https://i.imgur.com/9pGohrp.png)

And here is the same arena running in game:
(https://i.imgur.com/kBvBI2m.png)

Just because the Arena I'm using to test interactions and get everything running is simple don't think that is the limit! Thanks to Unity's excellent support for 3D models and advanced lighting you can pretty much make anything you can think of! If you guys have any questions, suggestions, or want to know anything about the project just drop me a message here or on the Discord.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on January 10, 2020, 01:15:45 PM
I can’t fault the work that’s going into this game.

Really great to see another member onboard with the development too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 01:57:34 PM
Tested the new build and beta does not seem to be doing better. I really dont know what is causing the jitteriness. Try looking at 2.01 build from April or so. The driving was spot on there
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 10, 2020, 02:35:19 PM
I noticed with the new steel floor there is this weird clanking that seems to be coming from that rolling pin. Here's a video, play it with sound:
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
I noticed with the new steel floor there is this weird clanking that seems to be coming from that rolling pin. Here's a video, play it with sound:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
I second this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 10, 2020, 02:52:00 PM
I figured out what was wrong with my sawbot! When limits are set, motor shafts on the arm stay at the original location!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 03:54:14 PM
I noticed with the new steel floor there is this weird clanking that seems to be coming from that rolling pin. Here's a video, play it with sound:

Oops!  Need to get Callum on this.  Thats what I get for having the sound down while I test the game...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
New bleeding edge build is coming out tomorrow.  I have added sliders to adjust the following:

Physics Tick Rate (100 - 500 ticks per second)
Physics Default Solver Velocity Iterations
Physics Default Iterations

I might try adding a few more sliders to see if we can figure out a fix to the jittering problem.  I have noticed that if I increase the physics tick rate to 300 I the jittering in Beta seems to become a smooth oscillation back and forth.  It just about doubles the time spent in physics per frame though.  My baby laptop CPU is getting HOT.

EDIT: kix, I'm kind of dying to see if your computer can handle 500 ticks per second.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 04:02:30 PM
New bleeding edge build is coming out tomorrow.  I have added sliders to adjust the following:

Physics Tick Rate (100 - 500 ticks per second)
Physics Default Solver Velocity Iterations
Physics Default Iterations

I might try adding a few more sliders to see if we can figure out a fix to the jittering problem.  I have noticed that if I increase the physics tick rate to 300 I the jittering in Beta seems to become a smooth oscillation back and forth.  It just about doubles the time spent in physics per frame though.  My baby laptop CPU is getting HOT.
Thats weird. The fix might not be that? What if the wheels have too much grip or something which cause it to jump?

500? OOOH i also want to see that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 10, 2020, 04:23:09 PM
What if we had 2 versions for RR2? One that is for High end Desktops and one for laptops?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 10, 2020, 05:24:39 PM
I just put up a bleeding edge build called "10.5January2020".  These have the new physics sliders.  Please note that today's previous build was called "10January2020".

kix, go nuts! :)

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

PS - Except for the bumpiness with Beta, I'm kind of liking the fact that I can run the game at 100 ticks/second on my laptop.  Once I get AI Miniscript under control, this should mean that people with really old computers have a shot at being able to run the game with graphics turned way down.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 10, 2020, 05:58:52 PM
Tested the build with 500tick and boy is it amazing. However
You can see some issues in the vid:
https://youtu.be/RdK3SkoEOLA
Its still a massive improvement

EDIT: What do the other 2 sliders do on the right?
PS. The smooth oscillation is actually just beta having lwered wheels for previous builds
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 10, 2020, 07:15:51 PM
At 500 ticks/sec, the jitter doesn't exist.  The jitter barely exists at 450 ticks, and only occurred for about half a second after I kicked the third (out of 4) wheels off my opponent.  At 400 ticks, the jitter comes back at full force after losing a wheel.  Note that this never happens after my opponent loses its drum spinner.  At 425 ticks, the jitter from losing one wheel goes away.

I'm running the other physics settings at 50%.  When the jitter occurred, I tried tweaking those but they didn't seem to make a difference at all.  It was the tick setting at 425 that seemed to make the jitter stop.

EDIT:  It appears I was wrong about the 425 ticks.  I still had an instance of jitter knocking a wheel off, but the chance of it happening seems significantly reduced.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 08:36:56 AM
Yup.  You guys are right.  There was a bug in the breakage code. 

When all of the parts connected to a spinner (a.k.a. a single wheel) are broken off, it was supposed to set the remaining mass (a.k.a. just the axle) to have a mass of something just higher than zero.  Instead it was setting the remaining mass to be equal to the original mass.   This meant that the robot would shake and wobble like crazy when everything was broken off other than the axle itself.

New build coming soon...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 08:43:00 AM
Yup.  You guys are right.  There was a bug in the breakage code. 

When all of the parts connected to a spinner (a.k.a. a single wheel) are broken off, it was supposed to set the remaining mass (a.k.a. just the axle) to have a mass of something just higher than zero.  Instead it was setting the remaining mass to be equal to the original mass.   This meant that the robot would shake and wobble like crazy when everything was broken off other than the axle itself.

New build coming soon...
Nice, how about the 500 tick lagging like crazy on certailn bots, even tho the cpu usage was not full?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 11, 2020, 09:15:28 AM
Yup.  You guys are right.  There was a bug in the breakage code. 

When all of the parts connected to a spinner (a.k.a. a single wheel) are broken off, it was supposed to set the remaining mass (a.k.a. just the axle) to have a mass of something just higher than zero.  Instead it was setting the remaining mass to be equal to the original mass.   This meant that the robot would shake and wobble like crazy when everything was broken off other than the axle itself.

New build coming soon...
Nice, how about the 500 tick lagging like crazy on certailn bots, even tho the cpu usage was not full?
I watched the video, and it looks like it was only when you were in the fire pit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 09:22:45 AM
Yup.  You guys are right.  There was a bug in the breakage code. 

When all of the parts connected to a spinner (a.k.a. a single wheel) are broken off, it was supposed to set the remaining mass (a.k.a. just the axle) to have a mass of something just higher than zero.  Instead it was setting the remaining mass to be equal to the original mass.   This meant that the robot would shake and wobble like crazy when everything was broken off other than the axle itself.

New build coming soon...
Nice, how about the 500 tick lagging like crazy on certain bots, even tho the cpu usage was not full?
I watched the video, and it looks like it was only when you were in the fire pit.
It aint the flame pit. Its the bot im certain
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 09:25:56 AM
New bleeding edge build is up.  11January2020.  This one fixes the bug where the mass of the remaining axle on broken off components is way too big:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 10:48:58 AM
Rainbow Circus is unplayable on my computer, even at 100 ticks per second.  I need to look into why that is.  I suspect it is because of a large number of moving colliders.

Edit:  That’s the main reason I want to get the component modding tool working.  It is the easiest way to reduce the number of physics colliders for complex parts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 11, 2020, 10:50:27 AM
When I ripped a wheel off in the 11January build, the bot still gyrodances around.
EDIT: The rolling pin doesn't even rotate with my settings, so that fixes the annoying clanking.
EDIT 2: Can you send me Rainbow Circus? I have a VERY powerful laptop I would like to try it on.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 11:12:54 AM
When I ripped a wheel off in the 11January build, the bot still gyrodances around.
EDIT: The rolling pin doesn't even rotate with my settings, so that fixes the annoying clanking.
EDIT 2: Can you send me Rainbow Circus? I have a VERY powerful laptop I would like to try it on.

Darn it!  Something is going wrong to cause the gyro dancing but I’m not sure what.

Lightning, I will trade you Rainbow Circus for the robot with the gyro dancing!  :smile:

I’m not in front of my computer right now, but will send it when I get back.

As far as the roller noise goes, it should be an easy fix, but I wanted to check with Callum first before I start messing with anything audio related.  He’s the audio guru.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 11, 2020, 11:15:21 AM
Any robot with premade wheels does it. I think when a part is broken off of a motor, the motor should stop functioning. That might fix it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 11:17:37 AM
Maybe also add a group function for currently built bots that use ingame components, because cmt is gonna mean that bots should be rebuilt
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 11, 2020, 11:19:01 AM

Maybe also add a group function for currently built bots that use ingame components, because cmt is gonna mean that bots should be rebuilt
CMT????? What is that?

Lightning, I will trade you Rainbow Circus for the robot with the gyro dancing!  :smile:

If you look at my showcase, Takedown does the weird gyro thing. I include a download link on my showcase for the bots I post.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 01:54:33 PM
I did a little performance testing for 3 robots using the Unity profiler.  The times shown here are only significant insofar as they are relative to each other.

The complexity of the robot is almost directly proportional to the time spent in physics processing.

Rainbow Circus 2 is a shell spinner with 125 components.  It is pretty much unplayable on my laptop.  kix saw significant slowdowns on this robot on his computer, particularly as it passed through the flame pit and all of the colliders triggered collisions with the flame trigger volume.

Mental Breakdown is a simple vertical spinner with 32 components.  It runs well on my laptop at 100 ticks/second.  It slows down, but is still playable at 300 ticks/second.

HUGE Spinny is a "Tombclone" with 18 components.  It also runs well on my laptop, slightly better than Mental Breakdown.


Rainbow Circus 2 has about 7x the part count, and spends about 10x the amount of time spent in the CPU compared to HUGE Spinny.

In order to make cool-looking robots we need to figure out a more efficient way to create visual complexity than simply adding components.  The simplest way to do this is to get the RR2 Component Modding Tool (CMT???) up and running.  This will allow you to create something really cool-looking in Blender, then pull it into Unity and have Unity create a single mesh collider for it.  With such a tool in place we could reduce the number of colliders in Rainbow Circus 2's shell from 109 down to 1.  I expect that this would reduce physics frame time by 90%.


(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/3robotrelativeperformance.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 01:59:17 PM

EDIT: What do the other 2 sliders do on the right?
PS. The smooth oscillation is actually just beta having lwered wheels for previous builds

I saw this entry in the Unity manual regarding these values, and figured it was worth playing with them to see if they would reduce jittering:

https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Physics-defaultSolverVelocityIterations.html (https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Physics-defaultSolverVelocityIterations.html)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
I did a little performance testing for 3 robots using the Unity profiler.  The times shown here are only significant insofar as they are relative to each other.

The complexity of the robot is almost directly proportional to the time spent in physics processing.

Rainbow Circus 2 is a shell spinner with 125 components.  It is pretty much unplayable on my laptop.  kix saw significant slowdowns on this robot on his computer, particularly as it passed through the flame pit and all of the colliders triggered collisions with the flame trigger volume.

Mental Breakdown is a simple vertical spinner with 32 components.  It runs well on my laptop at 100 ticks/second.  It slows down, but is still playable at 300 ticks/second.

HUGE Spinny is a "Tombclone" with 18 components.  It also runs well on my laptop, slightly better than Mental Breakdown.


Rainbow Circus 2 has about 7x the part count, and spends about 10x the amount of time spent in the CPU compared to HUGE Spinny.

In order to make cool-looking robots we need to figure out a more efficient way to create visual complexity than simply adding components.  The simplest way to do this is to get the RR2 Component Modding Tool (CMT???) up and running.  This will allow you to create something really cool-looking in Blender, then pull it into Unity and have Unity create a single mesh collider for it.  With such a tool in place we could reduce the number of colliders in Rainbow Circus 2's shell from 109 down to 1.  I expect that this would reduce physics frame time by 90%.


(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/3robotrelativeperformance.png)

Problem with the tool is that personally i wouldn't allow custom components for my tournament. Unless there is a way to block it. Someone could enter a bit with low weight and extremely high hp count
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 02:07:29 PM

Problem with the tool is that personally i wouldn't allow custom components for my tournament. Unless there is a way to block it. Someone could enter a bit with low weight and extremely high hp count

I was thinking that you would set a material and the tool would automatically compute the weight and hp upon creation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 11, 2020, 02:14:49 PM
I'll want to add that while the tool is not a bad idea, I'm not much of a fan of having to use that and Blender or whatever if I want cool looks and have a still durable component. I'm more for just doing everything in game and see where it ends.
With that I am more fond of the idea of grouping bits together in game where it'll look good and still be durable enough.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 02:15:45 PM
I'll want to add that while the tool is not a bad idea, I'm not much of a fan of having to use that and Blender or whatever if I want cool looks and have a still durable component. I'm more for just doing everything in game and see where it ends.
With that I am more fond of the idea of grouping bits together in game where it'll look good and still be durable enough.

Maybe also add a group function for currently built bots that use ingame components, because cmt is gonna mean that bots should be rebuilt
CMT????? What is that?

"Component Modding Tool"?


Lightning, I will trade you Rainbow Circus for the robot with the gyro dancing!  :smile:

If you look at my showcase, Takedown does the weird gyro thing. I include a download link on my showcase for the bots I post.

I just loaded up Takedown and didn't see the gyro dancing in the latest build.  Are you using the 11January bleeding edge build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 02:17:32 PM
I'll want to add that while the tool is not a bad idea, I'm not much of a fan of having to use that and Blender or whatever if I want cool looks and have a still durable component. I'm more for just doing everything in game and see where it ends.
With that I am more fond of the idea of grouping bits together in game where it'll look good and still be durable enough.

I agree that Blender is intimidating.  I would love to eventually get a lot of the tool features built into the main game, but this should be a good start.

Grouping is a pretty big undertaking.  @tashic, any thoughts on getting something like this working?  Maybe we could reuse the chassis compound collider code?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 02:19:40 PM

Problem with the tool is that personally i wouldn't allow custom components for my tournament. Unless there is a way to block it. Someone could enter a bit with low weight and extremely high hp count

I was thinking that you would set a material and the tool would automatically compute the weight and hp upon creation.
Idk, setting a material not ingame is kinda eh. There can always be a chance that the modded part is better than the ingame part. Again, this modding tool is great for motors and parts like that
but for components i dont find it too good
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 11, 2020, 02:23:58 PM
I'll want to add that while the tool is not a bad idea, I'm not much of a fan of having to use that and Blender or whatever if I want cool looks and have a still durable component. I'm more for just doing everything in game and see where it ends.
With that I am more fond of the idea of grouping bits together in game where it'll look good and still be durable enough.

I agree that Blender is intimidating.  I would love to eventually get a lot of the tool features built into the main game, but this should be a good start.

Grouping is a pretty big undertaking.  @tashic, any thoughts on getting something like this working?  Maybe we could reuse the chassis compound collider code?
Eventually there will be more than enough people that would rather not go through multiple programs in order to finish up a bot that looks nice, I'd think.
Kix also brings up fair points.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 03:20:17 PM
Fair enough.  In any case we are going to need the modding tool to speed up our part-creation process, so we might as well make it available to everyone.

I have some ideas on how to do in-game grouping, but it is going to take a lot of work and troubleshooting to get things like collisionshapes, component breakage, hit points, center of mass, etc working correctly.  Basically we will need to redo a lot of the things we had to do to get a whole robot working.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
I have some ideas on how to do in-game grouping, but it is going to take a lot of work and troubleshooting to get things like collisionshapes, component breakage, hit points, center of mass, etc working correctly.
Honestly:
collision shapes - Atm maybe not really necessary untill much later builds
omponent breakage - If you would group parts, i guess you would have combined HP and once it reaches 0, the whole struture falls off
hit points - Huh, thats the one thing that my knowledge is non existant.
center of mass - i guess if you did that before grouping, that wouldnt be an issue
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 11, 2020, 04:02:15 PM
I'll want to add that while the tool is not a bad idea, I'm not much of a fan of having to use that and Blender or whatever if I want cool looks and have a still durable component. I'm more for just doing everything in game and see where it ends.
With that I am more fond of the idea of grouping bits together in game where it'll look good and still be durable enough.

Maybe also add a group function for currently built bots that use ingame components, because cmt is gonna mean that bots should be rebuilt
CMT????? What is that?

"Component Modding Tool"?


Lightning, I will trade you Rainbow Circus for the robot with the gyro dancing!  :smile:

If you look at my showcase, Takedown does the weird gyro thing. I include a download link on my showcase for the bots I post.

I just loaded up Takedown and didn't see the gyro dancing in the latest build.  Are you using the 11January bleeding edge build?
Download Red Ring of Death from my showcase, fight it versus Takedown AI, and tear a wheel off of Takedown. I am using the 11January build. My physics slider settings are 500 ticks a second, and 100 on the other two. The thing is you have to wait a little bit for it to start glitching. I built these bots in an earlier build so maybe that’s why they’re glitching.

Now can you send me Rainbow Circus? The laptop I use can run the game at more than 90 fps
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 05:55:28 PM
Here's Rainbow Circus 2.  Cyar, this is one of your creations, correct?

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 11, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
Here's Rainbow Circus 2.  Cyar, this is one of your creations, correct?

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
No it was made by Minthemad
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 11, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
I've downloaded that circus to have a look, set tick to 500. Saw no dropping in performance at all on my PC.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 11, 2020, 06:51:33 PM
I've downloaded that circus to have a look, set tick to 500. Saw no dropping in performance at all on my PC.

That's a good data point.  Would you mind sharing your PC specs?

4 x Rainbow Circus, all CPU controlled is my worst-case scenario for testing.  AI Miniscript currently takes up about 8 ms per robot for me, so 4 robots automatically drops my frame rate below 30 fps no matter what my physics settings are.

After we get physics and damage sorted out, reworking the AI system is next on my list.  My first priority is to rewrite everything so it doesn't take up so darn much CPU time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 12, 2020, 05:39:16 AM
I've downloaded that circus to have a look, set tick to 500. Saw no dropping in performance at all on my PC.

That's a good data point.  Would you mind sharing your PC specs?

4 x Rainbow Circus, all CPU controlled is my worst-case scenario for testing.  AI Miniscript currently takes up about 8 ms per robot for me, so 4 robots automatically drops my frame rate below 30 fps no matter what my physics settings are.

After we get physics and damage sorted out, reworking the AI system is next on my list.  My first priority is to rewrite everything so it doesn't take up so darn much CPU time.
Sure thing.

Intel Core i7 8700 cpu @ 3.20GHz
32GB RAM (2x 16 GB)
Nvidia GeForce 980 Ti (6GB GPU memory)

Those are the most important specs to look at I believe.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 06:52:31 AM
New build coming today.  I finally isolated and fixed the source of the problem with the gyro dancing and unrealistic behaviors when everything is broken off an axle.

TL:DR - The mass of the remaining axle will be set to 0.00001 kg in the simulation.  This should prevent weirdness.

The full story:

[Bug Fix] Fixed a bug where the remaining mass of the axle alone was set to several kilograms when the last part attached to the axle is broken off.  This was causing robots to gyrodance and jitter unrealistically.  I also identified the source of the extra mass -- see "POTENTIAL BUG SOURCE" below.

POTENTIAL BUG SOURCE - I just noticed that the "Axle" subassemblies on motors and actuators comes with its own rigidbody.  For the Ampflow A40-300 motors, this "Axle" rigidbody has a mass of 4 kg.  I tried reducing the axle mass to something more realistic, like 1 kg.  This was a TERRIBLE change.  It made robots drive poorly, with the wheels bouncing and not gripping.  Apparently we had set this default axle mass value years ago in the very early stages of the game and completely forgotten about it.

From now on, every time we create a motor with an axle, we need to make sure that the axle has sufficient mass, maybe 4 kg for a 110 kg robot?  When everything breaks off except for the axle the mass of the axle will be set to 0.00001 kg.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 12, 2020, 06:55:17 AM
New build coming today.  I finally isolated and fixed the source of the problem with the gyro dancing and unrealistic behaviors when everything is broken off an axle.

TL:DR - The mass of the remaining axle will be set to 0.00001 kg in the simulation.  This should prevent weirdness.

The full story:

[Bug Fix] Fixed a bug where the remaining mass of the axle alone was set to several kilograms when the last part attached to the axle is broken off.  This was causing robots to gyrodance and jitter unrealistically.  I also identified the source of the extra mass -- see "POTENTIAL BUG SOURCE" below.

POTENTIAL BUG SOURCE - I just noticed that the "Axle" subassemblies on motors and actuators comes with its own rigidbody.  For the Ampflow A40-300 motors, this "Axle" rigidbody has a mass of 4 kg.  I tried reducing the axle mass to something more realistic, like 1 kg.  This was a TERRIBLE change.  It made robots drive poorly, with the wheels bouncing and not gripping.  Apparently we had set this default axle mass value years ago in the very early stages of the game and completely forgotten about it.

From now on, every time we create a motor with an axle, we need to make sure that the axle has sufficient mass, maybe 4 kg for a 110 kg robot?  When everything breaks off except for the axle the mass of the axle will be set to 0.00001 kg.
Ayy the issue that has been haunting us for months has finally been resolved
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 07:11:45 AM
I have some ideas on how to do in-game grouping, but it is going to take a lot of work and troubleshooting to get things like collisionshapes, component breakage, hit points, center of mass, etc working correctly.
Honestly:
collision shapes - Atm maybe not really necessary untill much later builds
omponent breakage - If you would group parts, i guess you would have combined HP and once it reaches 0, the whole struture falls off
hit points - Huh, thats the one thing that my knowledge is non existant.
center of mass - i guess if you did that before grouping, that wouldnt be an issue

I'm looking at fixing 2 things with a component grouping system:

1. CPU load:  With 100+ colliders, Rainbow Circus 2 is unplayable on my computer.  I would like to be able to reduce all robots to <30 colliders so that students can play the game on school computers.  This will open the game up to schools, which I think is important.
2. Ease of building:  Modular component subassemblies could significantly reduce the time it makes to create an intricately detailed robot.

I think I'm beginning to understand why user-created components (made using a Component Modding Tool) are not ideal for anyone trying to host a tournament.  There would need to be all sorts of checks in place in the tool to make sure people don't make things that are game-breaking.  Unless such checks were reliable enough for tournament use I understand that it would be easiest to say "no user-made components are allowed".  This is not at all dissimilar to the safety impound and inspection that we have to do in real-life tournaments.  It is a pain in the neck!

The Component Modding Tool could easily solve the CPU load problem (#1 above), but only for non-tournament use by players willing to download and use Unity and Blender.  For someone skilled in Blender, the person could create something way cooler looking than anything that one could create with our rudimentary in-game tools (#2 above).  Both of these use cases for the Component Modding Tool require players who are willing to invest a lot more time and energy than a typical person.

I'm not opposed to the idea of component grouping for these reasons, but it is going to take significant time and effort to get a system working.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 07:19:09 AM

Ayy the issue that has been haunting us for months has finally been resolved

Don't jinx it! :)

Also, this change should only affect the builds where stuff broke off an axle.  This began with the 19December2019 Alpha build.

Finding the source of the bug does provide another thing we are going to have to carefully tweak though.  The more mass we add to the axle (currently 4 kg for the big motors), the stiffer the wheels are when they are driving, but also the more slowly they respond to motor inputs.  My plan for now is to leave the motors as they are and only change them if we need to. (I'm looking at you, beetleweights!)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 12, 2020, 07:34:33 AM
If the aim is to also have this run well on school computers (don't know what general specs for those are these days), then something like grouping would also be quite ideal.
Now I also see why you want to lessen load so much. I should probably keep an eye on how much load the game puts on my system (gave specs on previous page), given that this is a own built gaming PC. Will add that when the game is running, I do notice my fans are spinning up a lot and then keeping that constant. Even in workshop or something.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 07:50:36 AM
The new 12January2020 bleeding edge build is up.  This one sets the mass of the remaining axles when everything else is broken off to 0.00001 kg.

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

I need to switch over to contract work to make money for the company this week.  I would like to use this build as an Alpha.  Please let me know if this is good enough to play with for a while! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 08:19:19 AM
The problem with the gyrodancing didn't go away. I'm thinking that if the motors stopped after a wheel is torn off, then the glitch will be fixed.
EDIT: The problem is fixed, apparently I mistook the gyro created by the wheels for the glitch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 08:56:49 AM
The problem with the gyrodancing didn't go away. I'm thinking that if the motors stopped after a wheel is torn off, then the glitch will be fixed.
EDIT: The problem is fixed, apparently I mistook the gyro created by the wheels for the glitch.

Awesome!  There is still pretty significant gyro caused by the remaining wheel due to the extra 4 kg mass added by the remaining wheel's axle.

I'm thinking maybe we need another slider to play around with the ratio of wheel mass / chassis mass.  Currently, with the extra 4 kg added to the axle, wheel mass is between 4-5% of chassis mass.

My hypothesis is that as you raise the percentage of wheel mass to chassis mass:

Pros: Joint stiffness would increase, reducing the annoying bounciness of wheels.
Cons:  Wheel gyroscopic effects would also increase, throwing the robot out of balance and potentially causing it to gyro dance on its side once the wheel gets going fast enough.

Only one way to find out.  Its slider time!!! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 12, 2020, 09:04:49 AM
I tried the circus bot again, but this time multiple in the arena at once.
So, 4 was the engine wanting to commit suicide. 3 went well until collision; then the frames drop. 2 was fine. Frame drops only happens when components went clipping into each other.
This is run on the bleeding edge released today.

Unrelated but something that has also been a thing. AI on own robots being reset to the default of the game after installing a new version of the game (drag & drop over the previous version). This is a bit annoying since some of my bots just no long use their hammer or flipper until I give them their AI again.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 12, 2020, 09:30:15 AM
I do notice my fans are spinning up a lot and then keeping that constant. Even in workshop or something.
Well from my experience, the fps is uncapped, and at uncapped fps, gpu runs at 100%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 12, 2020, 10:24:13 AM
When I checked performance monitoring, GPU ran at about 30 to 35%...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 11:23:20 AM
I tried the circus bot again, but this time multiple in the arena at once.
So, 4 was the engine wanting to commit suicide. 3 went well until collision; then the frames drop. 2 was fine. Frame drops only happens when components went clipping into each other.
This is run on the bleeding edge released today.

Excellent.  This helps bracket the problem down.  I would like to get the game to the point where it defaults to 300 physics ticks per second and runs at 60 fps on a  midrange laptop with 4 AI driven opponents with 50 colliders each.  It is going to take a lot of optimizing to get there, but I think it is possible.

Unrelated but something that has also been a thing. AI on own robots being reset to the default of the game after installing a new version of the game (drag & drop over the previous version). This is a bit annoying since some of my bots just no long use their hammer or flipper until I give them their AI again.

Ah yes.  The AI rewrite.  It will happen, I promise!  Right now the AI system is just as bad as physics.  It takes just as much CPU time.  That is my fault, and I intend to fix it.  The fix will include reimagining how AI is saved and loaded.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on January 12, 2020, 12:08:18 PM
Good to know that this AI rewrite issue will be tackled eventually.
Should note that all the results with the circus bots was on 500 ticks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 12, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
The problem with the gyrodancing didn't go away. I'm thinking that if the motors stopped after a wheel is torn off, then the glitch will be fixed.
EDIT: The problem is fixed, apparently I mistook the gyro created by the wheels for the glitch.

Awesome!  There is still pretty significant gyro caused by the remaining wheel due to the extra 4 kg mass added by the remaining wheel's axle.

I'm thinking maybe we need another slider to play around with the ratio of wheel mass / chassis mass.  Currently, with the extra 4 kg added to the axle, wheel mass is between 4-5% of chassis mass.

My hypothesis is that as you raise the percentage of wheel mass to chassis mass:

Pros: Joint stiffness would increase, reducing the annoying bounciness of wheels.
Cons:  Wheel gyroscopic effects would also increase, throwing the robot out of balance and potentially causing it to gyro dance on its side once the wheel gets going fast enough.

Only one way to find out.  Its slider time!!! :)
How about if a motor has nothing on it, it auto turns off,
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
How about if a motor has nothing on it, it auto turns off,
I've been trying to say this for weeks!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 02:36:51 PM
But then you don’t get the cool spinning axle with nothing on it!  :smile:

You might be right.  Lets see how this feels.  If we don’t like it we can always change it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 02:37:59 PM
I think the cool spinning axle is causing the glitching.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 12, 2020, 02:40:29 PM
But then you don’t get the cool spinning axle with nothing on it!  :smile:

You might be right.  Lets see how this feels.  If we don’t like it we can always change it.
Tbh i dont think that people will notice cool spinning axle in a match

EDIT: Can we get an sparks slider? Atm I kinda miss the sparks on low impact.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 02:43:05 PM
Yeah, you can’t even tell that the axle is spinning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 03:03:02 PM
I think the cool spinning axle is causing the glitching.

Sort of.  The root cause was the fact that the axle masses were outrageously high (4kg, making each wheel about 10% of the mass of the chassis) and spinning.  If the axle mass wasn't so high then when the wheel broke off the resulting mass would have been so small that the spinning axle wouldn't have created gyro dancing issues.

I think we might need the axle masses to be unrealistically large, but I can't be sure until we have had a chance to test different values on lots of different robots to see if it affects drivability.  Unity recommends that the mass ratio between two jointed rigidbodies not exceed 10:1.  If the wheel/axle combination is smaller than what Unity suggests that the resulting simulation might get unstable.  I put in a new physics slider on the next build to test this out.

For now, lets test to see if we need the extra axle mass.  Set the slider all the way to 1% and see if robots still drive okay.  If so then we can set the axle masses to more realistic values (around 1 kg for an Ampflow A40-300).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 03:04:37 PM
EDIT: Can we get an sparks slider? Atm I kinda miss the sparks on low impact.

Yeah baby! :)

Sparks are so satisfying!  I know they aren't always realistic, but stupid and over the top are what we live for in robot combat!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
EDIT: Can we get an sparks slider? Atm I kinda miss the sparks on low impact.

Yeah baby! :)

Sparks are so satisfying!  I know they aren't always realistic, but stupid and over the top are what we live for in robot combat!
Yay! My sawbot doesn’t spark like it should, so I am all for SPARK SLIDER!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 12, 2020, 03:40:12 PM
The spark slider didn't make it into today's Alpha build (coming soon!), but please remind me when I get back from my game dev hiatus next week!

The 12January2020 Alpha Build is up on itch.io:


https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


Here's what I have for the Alpha Build.  Basically it incorporates all the changes in the past few day's worth of Bleeding Edge Builds.  I also fixed the banging arena auger:

[Updates in the January 12th Build]

[Changed] Changed the arena floor material to "Steel".   This increases the traction of most robots.

[Added] Added sliders for physics tick rate. This can be used to tweak physics smoothness versus game frame rate.​  High end machines can support smooth play at 500 physics ticks per second.  Low end machines might need to reduce this to 100 physics ticks per second.

[Added] Added a Physics Mass Wheel Ratio Slider.  Default Wheel Mass Ratio is now set at 10%.​​  This is going to be using for testing driving behavior on a wide variety of robots.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed bug where spinner mass was still very large when all parts were broken off an axle. This was causing gyro dancing and uncontrolled behavior for many robots.  Now the mass is reduced to a very small amount. 

[Bug Fix] Raised height of Arena Auger so it didn't continuously bash itself into the floor, causing a continuous loud "bang" "bang" "bang" sound.​
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
The spark slider didn't make it into today's Alpha build (coming soon!), but please remind me when I get back from my game dev hiatus next week!
Dang it... I really wanted to make an arc welder XD.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 12, 2020, 03:53:56 PM
And about breakable armor plates, can’t you just treat the plates as components?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 12, 2020, 07:49:49 PM
The discussion has gone so fast.
For me the most satisfying spinner slider settings is 150%/150%/50%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 13, 2020, 01:54:39 PM
And about breakable armor plates, can’t you just treat the plates as components?

The chassis is special because it is the only component with separate armor plates.  It will need its own special set of rules for breakage.  Next week! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on January 14, 2020, 12:31:58 PM
Just a quick update from me on the first pass of the new Arena handling system.
The very basic framework for all the systems are in place now so soon enough you should
be seeing all new arenas using the new system!

As I said before I am expecting the first internal release to be ready for February and have
started on the documentation to help even Unity Novices get the most out of the tool, so
hopefully the first public release won't be too far away (no promises though).

Alongside all this I've updated the UI for the arena selection in order to add in the ability to
scroll through the list in preparation for the no doubt countless stages you guys will come up with!

(https://i.imgur.com/lpk5YLm.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 14, 2020, 01:17:54 PM
Just a quick update from me on the first pass of the new Arena handling system.
The very basic framework for all the systems are in place now so soon enough you should
be seeing all new arenas using the new system!

As I said before I am expecting the first internal release to be ready for February and have
started on the documentation to help even Unity Novices get the most out of the tool, so
hopefully the first public release won't be too far away (no promises though).

Alongside all this I've updated the UI for the arena selection in order to add in the ability to
scroll through the list in preparation for the no doubt countless stages you guys will come up with!

(https://i.imgur.com/lpk5YLm.png)
>Looks at top secret.
>Laughs in non-malicious intention
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 14, 2020, 08:48:36 PM
I can’t wait to see the level editor!  So cool!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 15, 2020, 03:01:02 AM
With Kupa's addition of the extended Arena Selector screen, there may be some new Arena's popping up soon....

Watch this space ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 15, 2020, 06:28:27 AM
Where can I download the arena builder and CMT?
EDIT: When are you going to fix telemetry?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on January 15, 2020, 10:07:58 AM
With Kupa's addition of the extended Arena Selector screen, there may be some new Arena's popping up soon....

Watch this space ;)
Trust me, you guys are in for a treat! As a little extra to this: Custom Arenas now support preview images so now they can stand out with even more customisation!

Where can I download the arena builder and CMT?
The CMT is going to be tackled after the ArenaModTool. Neither are available yet, but once the documentation is in a place where it is user friendly, and the framework for the AMT is done I think the plan is to create a GitHub project for it as that will allow for easy maintenance and updating as well as allowing you guys to potentially collaborate with the creation of new features and such.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 15, 2020, 02:30:43 PM
Ok so we stumbled upon this. Something is wrong with collisions, also the fact that physics is unoptimised, casuing the whole match to run at low fps at 500tick (my cpu usage was at maybe 30%)
https://youtu.be/VGp2I0YeSaw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 15, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
I've just done some testing with a crusher, and I can confirm that gearing anything down further than a total of about 100/1 results in the entire robot being incapable of rotating faster in battle (not in the test area) than the speed of the geared object itself.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 15, 2020, 03:20:57 PM
Just a quick update from me on the first pass of the new Arena handling system.
The very basic framework for all the systems are in place now so soon enough you should
be seeing all new arenas using the new system!

As I said before I am expecting the first internal release to be ready for February and have
started on the documentation to help even Unity Novices get the most out of the tool, so
hopefully the first public release won't be too far away (no promises though).

Alongside all this I've updated the UI for the arena selection in order to add in the ability to
scroll through the list in preparation for the no doubt countless stages you guys will come up with!

(https://i.imgur.com/lpk5YLm.png)
>Looks at top secret.
>Laughs in non-malicious intention
Bass intensifies as Ali-A intro rolls.  heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on January 15, 2020, 06:22:49 PM
Ok so we stumbled upon this. Something is wrong with collisions, also the fact that physics is unoptimised, casuing the whole match to run at low fps at 500tick (my cpu usage was at maybe 30%)
https://youtu.be/VGp2I0YeSaw

Ah, yes. My overhead bar decided to fly around and destroy everything while we were fighting it. It looked like it stopped being able to collide but could still do damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2020, 05:46:34 AM
I've just done some testing with a crusher, and I can confirm that gearing anything down further than a total of about 100/1 results in the entire robot being incapable of rotating faster in battle (not in the test area) than the speed of the geared object itself.

Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file, or is it possible to replicate this with Panic Attack?

Edit: Panic Attack is really difficult to edit because the robot is so dense.  Could you send an .RR2Bot file that shows the problem?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2020, 06:09:57 AM
Ok so we stumbled upon this. Something is wrong with collisions, also the fact that physics is unoptimised, casuing the whole match to run at low fps at 500tick (my cpu usage was at maybe 30%)

I love it!  This is so great!

I'm probably suffering from "Developer Eyes Syndrome" and can't see everything that you guys see, but I see 2 things here that need fixing:

1. The spinners should have come to a stop.  Either or that or they should have broken off.  For whatever reason that didn't happen and the now-invisible blur cylinders were still spinning and working their magic.

2. The lag is due to the fact that there is a literal pile of colliders on top of each other, all interacting.  The only way to minimize this is to reduce the number of interacting colliders.

Have you guys found a reliable way to reproduce #1?  It looks like P2 and P3's spinners didn't come to a stop, even though they were out of the arena.  Is this correct?  Were the weapons still turned on for P2 and P3?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 16, 2020, 08:56:39 AM
I've just done some testing with a crusher, and I can confirm that gearing anything down further than a total of about 100/1 results in the entire robot being incapable of rotating faster in battle (not in the test area) than the speed of the geared object itself.

Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file, or is it possible to replicate this with Panic Attack?

Edit: Panic Attack is really difficult to edit because the robot is so dense.  Could you send an .RR2Bot file that shows the problem?

If your Mac is capable of reproducing the problem at all, then all you need to do is stack two gearboxes, set both to 10/0.1, and put a long steel block or something extending off the side of the axle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2020, 09:28:42 AM
Ok so we stumbled upon this. Something is wrong with collisions, also the fact that physics is unoptimised, casuing the whole match to run at low fps at 500tick (my cpu usage was at maybe 30%)

I love it!  This is so great!

I'm probably suffering from "Developer Eyes Syndrome" and can't see everything that you guys see, but I see 2 things here that need fixing:

1. The spinners should have come to a stop.  Either or that or they should have broken off.  For whatever reason that didn't happen and the now-invisible blur cylinders were still spinning and working their magic.

2. The lag is due to the fact that there is a literal pile of colliders on top of each other, all interacting.  The only way to minimize this is to reduce the number of interacting colliders.

Have you guys found a reliable way to reproduce #1?  It looks like P2 and P3's spinners didn't come to a stop, even though they were out of the arena.  Is this correct?  Were the weapons still turned on for P2 and P3?

I think I have found and fixed the "Pit Blender" problem.  It turns out that when a robot is disabled, it would lose player input and maintain the existing state of the control signals.  Super scary when this happens in a real-life competition -- you have to wait until the batteries die on the robot.

In any case, this will be fixed in the next release.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on January 16, 2020, 10:20:42 AM
Ok so we stumbled upon this. Something is wrong with collisions, also the fact that physics is unoptimised, casuing the whole match to run at low fps at 500tick (my cpu usage was at maybe 30%)

I love it!  This is so great!

I'm probably suffering from "Developer Eyes Syndrome" and can't see everything that you guys see, but I see 2 things here that need fixing:

1. The spinners should have come to a stop.  Either or that or they should have broken off.  For whatever reason that didn't happen and the now-invisible blur cylinders were still spinning and working their magic.

2. The lag is due to the fact that there is a literal pile of colliders on top of each other, all interacting.  The only way to minimize this is to reduce the number of interacting colliders.

Have you guys found a reliable way to reproduce #1?  It looks like P2 and P3's spinners didn't come to a stop, even though they were out of the arena.  Is this correct?  Were the weapons still turned on for P2 and P3?

I think I have found and fixed the "Pit Blender" problem.  It turns out that when a robot is disabled, it would lose player input and maintain the existing state of the control signals.  Super scary when this happens in a real-life competition -- you have to wait until the batteries die on the robot.

In any case, this will be fixed in the next release.

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2020, 10:42:12 AM

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.

Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot files for P2 and P3?  I want to see if there is something weird going on...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 16, 2020, 12:00:58 PM

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.

Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot files for P2 and P3?  I want to see if there is something weird going on...

P2 and 1 as in player.

The actual bots were Infrared and Circumvolution.
I can send the latter,
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

And while I'm at it, here's the version of it where I was testing a crusher. You'll need to set a second one of the gearboxes to 10/0.1 to get the result where it barely steers in battle. Just like with Panic Attack, the issue doesn't effect it at all in the workshop test area.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2020, 12:46:21 PM
Cyar,

Thank you!  I'll take a look today.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on January 16, 2020, 06:32:33 PM

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.

Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot files for P2 and P3?  I want to see if there is something weird going on...

Here's the bot file for Infrared. I'm not sure what physics stats we were using though, as this was on Kix's computer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Sircreepalot2 on January 16, 2020, 09:38:32 PM
Woah, this is awesome! Can't believe someone actually went ahead and made the whole thing.  Awesome stuff!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 17, 2020, 07:30:19 AM
Thanks!  It is an ongoing effort by mostly GTM community members.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 17, 2020, 08:48:48 AM

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.

Here's the bot file for Infrared. I'm not sure what physics stats we were using though, as this was on Kix's computer.

I think I got it!  When the last component is broken off an axle, the mass of the remaining axle is set to 0.000001 kg.  I incorrectly determined what the "last component" meant.  When the colored bars were broken off of Infrared, the game thought that they were the last component, and had set the mass remaining to 0.000001 kg.  What you see in the video is the underlying steel bar that is teleporting all over the place because it has almost no inertia (mass).  I fixed it in the system, and should have a new build up today.

For Infrared, I also noticed that the colored bars are attached directly to the axle and not to the underlying steel bar.  This means that the colored bars will break off as a separate piece, kind of like a thin strip of plastic.  The manual fix is to attach the colored pieces to the underlying steel bar and mark them as "decoration" material.  I'm not sure if there is a way to automatically attach the entire strip to the underlying bar and mark them as "decoration".
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 17, 2020, 11:33:04 AM
I was hoping to get an Alpha build out today. 

Right now I'm trying to track down a crashing bug that occasionally happens when Infrared and Circumvolution collide.  For some reason the 08January, 12January, and current builds crash to the Main Menu when the two robots collide in a certain way.  I haven't been able to replicate the crash in the Unity Editor, so I'm going to need to do some more digging...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 17, 2020, 12:04:34 PM

The buggy spinners started midway through the fight, when nobody was even in the pit. I could still drive the robot fine. We got this to happen a second time, but nothing after that. We don’t have a consistent method of triggering the glitch. P2 was the main source of the problem. At some point the bar started teleporting off of the axle and was able to clip through the floor and other robots. The same thing happened to P1 later, but not quite to the same extent.

Here's the bot file for Infrared. I'm not sure what physics stats we were using though, as this was on Kix's computer.

I think I got it!  When the last component is broken off an axle, the mass of the remaining axle is set to 0.000001 kg.  I incorrectly determined what the "last component" meant.  When the colored bars were broken off of Infrared, the game thought that they were the last component, and had set the mass remaining to 0.000001 kg.  What you see in the video is the underlying steel bar that is teleporting all over the place because it has almost no inertia (mass).  I fixed it in the system, and should have a new build up today.

For Infrared, I also noticed that the colored bars are attached directly to the axle and not to the underlying steel bar.  This means that the colored bars will break off as a separate piece, kind of like a thin strip of plastic.  The manual fix is to attach the colored pieces to the underlying steel bar and mark them as "decoration" material.  I'm not sure if there is a way to automatically attach the entire strip to the underlying bar and mark them as "decoration".
This is where grouping would work
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 17, 2020, 05:45:04 PM
The 17January2020 build is out:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

[Added] Added Hotkeys and Hotkeys selection screen in the Robot Workshop.  What hotkeys would you like to see to speed up your workflow?

[Bug Fix] Fixed the incorrect calculation of the location of the center of mass for components that are scaled in the workshop.  This was causing robots like S3 to tip over immediately, as well as the robot Rainbow Circus 2 to tip over once its shell had been removed.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem that would allow you to delete both mirrored components if one of the two was selected, but wouldn't allow it if the other was selected instead.

[Bug Fix] Once robots are Out Of The Arena (pitted or otherwise), the robot is marked as disabled and the control signals are automatically set to zero. This should prevent the crazy situation where spinning weapons still spun in the pit, turning the arena pit into a blender that kept throwing pieces everywhere.  See kix's video from a few posts back.

[Bug Fix] I had incorrectly assumed that only one object could be attached to an axle, and all other objects must then be attached to that. This resulted in me setting the mass of the entire rigidbody to 0.000001 kg even when there were other components still remaining. I now check to make sure all components are truly gone before setting the rigidbody mass to zero. This should fix the bar spinner teleportation on Infrared we saw in kix's video.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 18, 2020, 08:24:58 AM
Can you fix the telemetry?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 18, 2020, 11:43:25 AM
Can you fix the telemetry?

I can try!  Can you point me to a few .RR2Bot files with the symptoms?  The more, the better!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 18, 2020, 12:35:07 PM
yo when are you also adding the hotkeys like:
Delete button - Delets a component, basically a hotkey to the red X
Ctrl-Z - Undo a move
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on January 18, 2020, 03:40:32 PM
I haven't looked at this in a long time but something that allows for very precise movement with wasdqz or wasd-shift-space in amounts of ~0.01 a la movepixel was one of the things I remember wanting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on January 18, 2020, 03:44:56 PM
I haven't looked at this in a long time but something that allows for very precise movement with wasdqz or wasd-shift-space in amounts of ~0.01 a la movepixel was one of the things I remember wanting.
You can edit the coordinates of components to like 3 decimal places
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 18, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Can you fix the telemetry?

I can try!  Can you point me to a few .RR2Bot files with the symptoms?  The more, the better!
I mean the glitch where the telemetry screen doesn't turn off when the telemetry button is pressed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 18, 2020, 04:39:04 PM
Just solved a lingering bug with spinners that caused the game to crash back to the main menu during a fight.  I don’t know how much of a problem it was for you guys but it was driving me nuts not being able to fight two spinners against each other.

I think that is the last of the crashing bugs.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 18, 2020, 08:26:40 PM

And while I'm at it, here's the version of it where I was testing a crusher. You'll need to set a second one of the gearboxes to 10/0.1 to get the result where it barely steers in battle. Just like with Panic Attack, the issue doesn't effect it at all in the workshop test area.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

I have been messing around with Circumvolution C, and I can't seem to get it to exhibit the behavior you were referring to.  With the gearbox set to 10:0.1, I see the same steering performance as with the gearbox set to 1:1.  Would you mind sending a copy of the robot where you see the effect?

One thing to note is that, in general, CPU usage is 4x higher in combat than it is in the test arena.  In the test arena, the computer only has to run a single robot's worth of physics.  In combat, the CPU has to run 2 x physics + 2 x AI code.  Not only that, but there are WAY more potential colliding colliders in combat.  Maybe this is the slowdown you are seeing?  Do you see a driving performance improvement if you set the physics tick rate to 100 ticks/second?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on January 18, 2020, 09:06:11 PM
I haven't looked at this in a long time but something that allows for very precise movement with wasdqz or wasd-shift-space in amounts of ~0.01 a la movepixel was one of the things I remember wanting.
You can edit the coordinates of components to like 3 decimal places
I'm well aware of this, it's just that in very precise builds like my Nightmare build it's too difficult to math out where everything should be, and the build time would go down rapidly if there were movepixel-esque controls rather than having to edit the coordinate, see if its close enough, edit it again, etc.

I'm going to quote the old post I made in here, because it outlines some stuff that really ought to have hotkeys.

Is there anyway I can see what features are planned for future versions? Anyway, I have some suggestions after building in the botlab for some time. A lot of suggestions and a lot of them are complex, so I don't expect you to agree with all of them or try to implement much of what's here in the near future, I know you guys are busy.
I know you guys are not nearly done with the botlab and that given time you guys will make it great, but talking about the botlab right now as it is, it's still pretty clunky in the sense that it takes a very long time to use the controls and the tools given to you to make the botlab do what you want it to do. First of all, I think keyboard shortcuts would improve the building experience 1000%. Things like pressing x to focus the x coordinate, delete for deleting components, arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating, basically all the buttons and fields in the interface should have some keyboard mapping because clicking on everything takes forever. Remapping keys would also be great, i.e. i much prefer RMB to MMB for panning. As it is, it's very easy to make mistakes by putting the wrong numbers into the coordinates or into the wrong coordinates, and it's also way too easy to get yourself into a situation where you move something too far away and can only fix it through editing the bot file. An undue button would be a great help for this, and additionally some way to control the max distance from origin of all the components and toggle the room that you are in would all be huge helps. It's also really easy to get objects stuck inside of others, and there's currently a glitch where some small objects won't be able to be selected unless you exit and join the workshop. A lot of these issues could also be helped by having an expandable tree view of all the components like in the bot file and being able to select components like that. Being able to turn off blur from being too close would also be great. When using the moving sliders, they go in increments of .025, and if the component isn't currently at a multiple of .025 then it snaps to a multiple: there should be some way to turn the snapping to a multiple off, because a lot of the more complex builds will not use those multiples very often. This also applies to the rotation and size sliders. There should be a way to control what interval the moving axes move by, either through a field or through several hotkeys which are each set to common values, i.e. .01 and .005 with .025 as the default. It would be great if there was some way to change the directions of the coordinate system so that it doesn't have to be determined by what the object is sitting on, a lot of the times I just want the normal xyz directions. It would be fantastic if there was a way to copy the x, y, or z coordinate of one object and then set the coordinate to another in a streamlined fashion, e.g. hold x while clicking on another object. It would also be great if there was some way to clone mirrors of objects and flip each of the components. It would be nice if we could smooth components along a certain rotational axis. For the chassis and custom object builder it would be great if we could change the numerical values of the xy coordinates via text field of each of the vertices like we can for objects in the rest of the builder.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 18, 2020, 09:13:10 PM

And while I'm at it, here's the version of it where I was testing a crusher. You'll need to set a second one of the gearboxes to 10/0.1 to get the result where it barely steers in battle. Just like with Panic Attack, the issue doesn't effect it at all in the workshop test area.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

I have been messing around with Circumvolution C, and I can't seem to get it to exhibit the behavior you were referring to.  With the gearbox set to 10:0.1, I see the same steering performance as with the gearbox set to 1:1.  Would you mind sending a copy of the robot where you see the effect?

One thing to note is that, in general, CPU usage is 4x higher in combat than it is in the test arena.  In the test arena, the computer only has to run a single robot's worth of physics.  In combat, the CPU has to run 2 x physics + 2 x AI code.  Not only that, but there are WAY more potential colliding colliders in combat.  Maybe this is the slowdown you are seeing?  Do you see a driving performance improvement if you set the physics tick rate to 100 ticks/second?

You need more than one of the gearboxes geared down, producing a total gear-down greater than 100/1. Try setting all three gearboxes at 10:1. So it should be 1000:1 total.

Also, while I'm here, I've still never seen the game stop considering something a spinner because it has rubber on it, but I feel like that's supposed to be a thing now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 19, 2020, 07:13:04 AM


I have been messing around with Circumvolution C, and I can't seem to get it to exhibit the behavior you were referring to.  With the gearbox set to 10:0.1, I see the same steering performance as with the gearbox set to 1:1.  Would you mind sending a copy of the robot where you see the effect?

One thing to note is that, in general, CPU usage is 4x higher in combat than it is in the test arena.  In the test arena, the computer only has to run a single robot's worth of physics.  In combat, the CPU has to run 2 x physics + 2 x AI code.  Not only that, but there are WAY more potential colliding colliders in combat.  Maybe this is the slowdown you are seeing?  Do you see a driving performance improvement if you set the physics tick rate to 100 ticks/second?

You need more than one of the gearboxes geared down, producing a total gear-down greater than 100/1. Try setting all three gearboxes at 10:1. So it should be 1000:1 total.

Shoot.  That means I need to figure out where the rest of the gearboxes are. :)

EDIT:  Here's what I am seeing with the first gearbox at 10:1 and the second at 10:0.1

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/circumvolutions.gif)

Also, while I'm here, I've still never seen the game stop considering something a spinner because it has rubber on it, but I feel like that's supposed to be a thing now.

Uh oh.  I hadn't considered that people would use rubber to circumvent weapon spinners entirely.  This is bad because it completely sidesteps the weapon damage system.  By placing rubber on a spinner, you are telling the game that this isn't a spinner -- it is a wheel.  Wheels don't get the (now invisible) Weapon_Blur_Cylinder, and so therefore can't damage anything.

I have an idea for a no-user-input-required fix that just finds the outermost component.  If the outermost component is rubber, it treats it as a wheel.  If not, then it treats it as a weapon.  This can be recomputed every time you knock off a piece, so that a spinning object can first be a wheel, then when its rubber gets ripped off it becomes a weapon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 19, 2020, 07:46:50 AM
Something bad happened.
When I was building something for about 2 hours, I accidentally clicked the Option 1(convex) collision generation when editing the chassis. Then my bot died.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Is there any way to bring it back to life?
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 19, 2020, 10:26:45 AM
Something bad happened.
When I was building something for about 2 hours, I accidentally clicked the Option 1(convex) collision generation when editing the chassis.
Is there any way to bring it back to life?
 

Oh no!  Looking into it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 19, 2020, 05:54:43 PM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 19, 2020, 06:48:24 PM
Shoot.  That means I need to figure out where the rest of the gearboxes are. :)

EDIT:  Here's what I am seeing with the first gearbox at 10:1 and the second at 10:0.1

There are three gearboxes between the e-tek and the crusher arm. One straight and two 90 degree.


Uh oh.  I hadn't considered that people would use rubber to circumvent weapon spinners entirely.  This is bad because it completely sidesteps the weapon damage system.  By placing rubber on a spinner, you are telling the game that this isn't a spinner -- it is a wheel.  Wheels don't get the (now invisible) Weapon_Blur_Cylinder, and so therefore can't damage anything.

I have an idea for a no-user-input-required fix that just finds the outermost component.  If the outermost component is rubber, it treats it as a wheel.  If not, then it treats it as a weapon.  This can be recomputed every time you knock off a piece, so that a spinning object can first be a wheel, then when its rubber gets ripped off it becomes a weapon.

I mentioned it because it doesn't happen, at all, but someone said something at some point that I took to mean that it was supposed to be a thing. So I thought it was a bug that it wasn't happening.

It would be useful to be able to make something not be a spinner though, without the extra few kg of wheelfixing. Custom wheels beyond a certain size are crippled by using the spinner physics.
Yesterday, in Parsec Rumble 2, Wheely Big Cheese danced into the pit because as soon as it left the floor it started doing weird soft gyro in the air, and when it landed it did weird moon-gravity dancing that made it hard to get both wheels back on the floor.

And while I'm on the subject of wheels: Rubber parts beyond a few centimeters on wheelfixed components (such as custom wheels) gets insta-destroyed by so much as lightly grazing another robot. Meaning - say - that it doesn't much matter how tough a steel cylinder custom wheel is, because the entire rubber tread on that wheel disintegrates once the two bots meet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 19, 2020, 07:08:49 PM
Something bad happened.
When I was building something for about 2 hours, I accidentally clicked the Option 1(convex) collision generation when editing the chassis.
Is there any way to bring it back to life?
 

Oh no!  Looking into it!

Just uploaded the fix!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 19, 2020, 07:09:45 PM
19January2020 Alpha Build is out!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This one has 2 bug fixes:

[Bug Fix] Fixed spinner crashing bug which caused robots with spinning weapons to crash back to the Main Menu screen.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem with the convex chassis option which caused robots to sometimes disappear and be replaced by magenta shapes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on January 19, 2020, 07:30:20 PM
Something bad happened.
When I was building something for about 2 hours, I accidentally clicked the Option 1(convex) collision generation when editing the chassis.
Is there any way to bring it back to life?
 

Oh no!  Looking into it!

Just uploaded the fix!

Thank you! That's sweet!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 19, 2020, 08:39:16 PM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.
I actually got the same issue as well, but only when the weapon or wheel comes off. It's easiest to replicate with a bot I'm attaching to this as it's weapon falls off fairly easily in fights. Please find a fix to this!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 19, 2020, 09:53:48 PM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 20, 2020, 07:01:08 AM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Not a doable thing at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 07:05:40 AM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.
I actually got the same issue as well, but only when the weapon or wheel comes off. It's easiest to replicate with a bot I'm attaching to this as it's weapon falls off fairly easily in fights. Please find a fix to this!

1. Which glitch are you referring to?  Beetle Crab has almost nothing in common construction-wise with botlab robots, so it is unlikely to be a related issue.
2. Are you running the latest version?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 20, 2020, 07:22:37 AM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.
I actually got the same issue as well, but only when the weapon or wheel comes off. It's easiest to replicate with a bot I'm attaching to this as it's weapon falls off fairly easily in fights. Please find a fix to this!

1. Which glitch are you referring to?  Beetle Crab has almost nothing in common construction-wise with botlab robots, so it is unlikely to be a related issue.
2. Are you running the latest version?
I am running the latest version, and the glitch I am referencing is the glitch where Beetle Crab is sluggish and hovers.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 07:24:17 AM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.
I actually got the same issue as well, but only when the weapon or wheel comes off. It's easiest to replicate with a bot I'm attaching to this as it's weapon falls off fairly easily in fights. Please find a fix to this!

Awesome!  I will try to take a look today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 07:25:28 AM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Not a doable thing at all.

We can keep it on the list of requests, but it would require getting rid of the current tree structure for robot construction.  The tree structure is a core feature of the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 20, 2020, 07:40:30 AM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Not a doable thing at all.

We can keep it on the list of requests, but it would require getting rid of the current tree structure for robot construction.  The tree structure is a core feature of the game.
Couldn't you put a button in the workshop that allows you to connect one part to another?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 07:54:28 AM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Not a doable thing at all.

We can keep it on the list of requests, but it would require getting rid of the current tree structure for robot construction.  The tree structure is a core feature of the game.
Couldn't you put a button in the workshop that allows you to connect one part to another?

Yes, we could add a button, but there is a lot more work to be done than that.

When the robot is reconstructed from the .RR2Bot file, all of the scripts assume that the robot is built with a tree structure.  In a logical tree, branches split and never come back together.  Everything that we have coded, reconstruction, component links, component breakage, and the damage system, all assume that each component has only one parent.  If we were to change this underlying assumption it would break pretty much everything in the game.  It isn't an impossible task to change this assumption, but it would take a significant chunk of time to fix and troubleshoot all of the bugs.

Bottom line: It is a significant (months? a year?) amount of work just to allow a spinner to be powered by two motors.  We have other things that are higher on the priority list.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 08:12:18 AM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.

Can you send me the robot with the glitch?  I have a potential fix for the robot that CodeSilver sent, but I want to make sure it works with yours as well.

I also need to check a few more robots to make sure the fix doesn't create some undesirable consequences.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 20, 2020, 08:16:23 AM
Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.
Not a doable thing at all.

We can keep it on the list of requests, but it would require getting rid of the current tree structure for robot construction.  The tree structure is a core feature of the game.
Couldn't you put a button in the workshop that allows you to connect one part to another?

Yes, we could add a button, but there is a lot more work to be done than that.

When the robot is reconstructed from the .RR2Bot file, all of the scripts assume that the robot is built with a tree structure.  In a logical tree, branches split and never come back together.  Everything that we have coded, reconstruction, component links, component breakage, and the damage system, all assume that each component has only one parent.  If we were to change this underlying assumption it would break pretty much everything in the game.  It isn't an impossible task to change this assumption, but it would take a significant chunk of time to fix and troubleshoot all of the bugs.

Bottom line: It is a significant (months? a year?) amount of work just to allow a spinner to be powered by two motors.  We have other things that are higher on the priority list.
What if the button didn’t actually assign a part more than one parent component, but instead linked two parts together? Would that work?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 20, 2020, 08:54:31 AM
I was able to replicate the Beetle Crab glitch with a beetleweight robot I made.

Can you send me the robot with the glitch?  I have a potential fix for the robot that CodeSilver sent, but I want to make sure it works with yours as well.

I also need to check a few more robots to make sure the fix doesn't create some undesirable consequences.
Here is the botfile for the glitchy beetleweight:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
What if the button didn’t actually assign a part more than one parent component, but instead linked two parts together? Would that work?

There is still plenty of work to do to get it working.  I will put it on the feature request board.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on January 20, 2020, 11:32:01 AM
Now that hotkeys are a thing, how about giving me ideas on what features you want to have available on keyboard and with what key to activate it.
They can be stuff that already has a button assigned to it but would benefit from a keyboard shortcut for experienced players, but also stuff that is only usable through keyboard as they would be impractical in the UI or needs to work together with the mouse.

The hotkeys for functions that are on different sections of the botlab can have the same key, for example snap to grid in the shape creator can have the same key as the snap function when adding components to the robot.

Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.

As cjbruce said, the robot is saved as a tree structure and that makes this specific feature pretty tricky to implement as I have to rework quite a bit the system to allow for this.
I have had this feature in mind however, and I would be interested in implementing this, but I still haven't found a satisfactory way of doing that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 20, 2020, 01:35:38 PM
Now that hotkeys are a thing, how about giving me ideas on what features you want to have available on keyboard and with what key to activate it.
They can be stuff that already has a button assigned to it but would benefit from a keyboard shortcut for experienced players, but also stuff that is only usable through keyboard as they would be impractical in the UI or needs to work together with the mouse.

The hotkeys for functions that are on different sections of the botlab can have the same key, for example snap to grid in the shape creator can have the same key as the snap function when adding components to the robot.

Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.

As cjbruce said, the robot is saved as a tree structure and that makes this specific feature pretty tricky to implement as I have to rework quite a bit the system to allow for this.
I have had this feature in mind however, and I would be interested in implementing this, but I still haven't found a satisfactory way of doing that.
Hotkeys that i really want that would help with building:
Delete key would delete a part.
Undo button and a hotkey for it (idk which one)

As for the motors, in my opinion, thats not really a massive worry, however i would like the option to attach multiple belts on a motor
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on January 20, 2020, 01:54:06 PM
Now that hotkeys are a thing, how about giving me ideas on what features you want to have available on keyboard and with what key to activate it.
They can be stuff that already has a button assigned to it but would benefit from a keyboard shortcut for experienced players, but also stuff that is only usable through keyboard as they would be impractical in the UI or needs to work together with the mouse.

The hotkeys for functions that are on different sections of the botlab can have the same key, for example snap to grid in the shape creator can have the same key as the snap function when adding components to the robot.

Question:  Is there a way to make it so two motors spin one weapon?  For an example, I have a design that has two motors driving the same bar spinner, each with a separate belt drive going from the motor to the spinner.

As cjbruce said, the robot is saved as a tree structure and that makes this specific feature pretty tricky to implement as I have to rework quite a bit the system to allow for this.
I have had this feature in mind however, and I would be interested in implementing this, but I still haven't found a satisfactory way of doing that.

x, y, z to focus the x, y, z box for editing position
arrow keys / wasd + shift + space for quickly adjusting positions, preferably with a way to control step size
almost every single button on the interface should have something bound to it just to speed things up
an undue button
toggle table / room existence
a way to select components very far away since I remember it being easy to necro robots that way (a tree view of the components would be the best way to do this though)
toggle zoom-in blur
toggle coordinate system to be based off parent component or just normal xyz coordinates
align center of current component with center of another in a particular dimension, e.g. hold x or y or z while clicking on a different component or something
some of these just need options settings rather than a hotkey
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 02:13:36 PM
An undo system would make a big improvement in usability.  I understand it isn’t a trivial thing to create but it would help a lot.

CTRL-Z to undo
either CTRL-Y or Shift-CTRL-Z for redo

Some other useful ones (I’m not sure if they are in yet):
M to move
S to scale
R to rotate
M + X + right or up key to move 1 millimeter in the X direction

If we are feeling really saucy we could copy the Blender hot keys:  G, R, S, etc
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 20, 2020, 03:15:01 PM
Agreed on having Del for delete, and I think it would make it even quicker to have Enter as Confirm and maybe Backspace/Esc for Cancel?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 20, 2020, 05:41:39 PM
I have a possible idea for how to do multiple motors running a weapon.

What if there were a way of making the *weapon*  the start of the branch, maybe with a special axle or something, and having it be spun by two motors that extend from that branch?

If it worked, it might also be a solution to making hubmotors actually work as they should.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 20, 2020, 05:48:29 PM
Also, Chris, did you see the video I posted a bit back of what the Panic Attack steering issue looks like?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 08:04:00 PM
Also, Chris, did you see the video I posted a bit back of what the Panic Attack steering issue looks like?

I didn’t see it.  Would you mind resending the link?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 20, 2020, 08:16:34 PM
I have a possible idea for how to do multiple motors running a weapon.

What if there were a way of making the *weapon*  the start of the branch, maybe with a special axle or something, and having it be spun by two motors that extend from that branch?

If it worked, it might also be a solution to making hubmotors actually work as they should.

But what happens when one motor breaks?  Is each motor powered separately?  Does the spinner keep spinning?   Lots of stuff would need to be figured out.  It would be its own special system with special rules.  Kind of like pneumatics.  The motors would need to be aligned.  Weird to think about how it would work...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 20, 2020, 08:26:12 PM
I have a possible idea for how to do multiple motors running a weapon.

What if there were a way of making the *weapon*  the start of the branch, maybe with a special axle or something, and having it be spun by two motors that extend from that branch?

If it worked, it might also be a solution to making hubmotors actually work as they should.

But what happens when one motor breaks?  Is each motor powered separately?  Does the spinner keep spinning?   Lots of stuff would need to be figured out.  It would be its own special system with special rules.  Kind of like pneumatics.  The motors would need to be aligned.  Weird to think about how it would work...
The only way I can see it work is if it's 1 motor that looks like 2? Idk, maybe click one motor, then click an option, then click the other motor, and tadaa! now it looks like 2 motors powering 1 thing, but the game sees it a 1 motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on January 21, 2020, 06:46:37 AM
I feel like the simplest solution would just be to make a "dual" variant of each motor, like the 2-mag, 4-mag etc. from DSL. That way, it's still technically one motor, so it doesn't require any changes to the existing game mechanics, but it has the same stats as two motors joined together.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on January 21, 2020, 10:13:55 AM
I feel like the simplest solution would just be to make a "dual" variant of each motor, like the 2-mag, 4-mag etc. from DSL. That way, it's still technically one motor, so it doesn't require any changes to the existing game mechanics, but it has the same stats as two motors joined together.

Personally I think that would be an ok sort term fix. I would like to see the ability to join two motors that both run separate weapon belts to the same weapon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 21, 2020, 06:24:21 PM
The spark slider didn't make it into today's Alpha build (coming soon!), but please remind me when I get back from my game dev hiatus next week!
Reminder: CREATE SPARK SLIDER
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 21, 2020, 06:51:08 PM
I just wanted to double my motor power going to my vertical bar spinner, kind of like how Yeti had three motors driving its drum spinner in the latest season.

I'm wondering if some kind of tree inversion could be possible only for weapons where two motor connections go to the same weapon.  At least that's how I'd visualize it in something like LabView.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 21, 2020, 06:55:00 PM
I noticed something (or lack thereof) where I had a bot that lost half of its weapon. It didn't spaz around like it should have. Here's a video:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2020, 08:40:15 PM
I noticed something (or lack thereof) where I had a bot that lost half of its weapon. It didn't spaz around like it should have. Here's a video:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Which one lost half of its weapon?

I took out the center of mass recalculation code because I’m still working on spinner and wheel physics and I need to eliminate some variables.

My big issue right now is that we are doing a hack to improve drivability.  The hack is not scaling to smaller robots.  This manifests as the problem you see in Beetle Crab where the robot will spontaneously float up on its side.  Beetleweights are in a bad place right now if they have an active weapon.  I need to nail this down to make driving consistent across weight classes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 22, 2020, 01:43:48 AM
Also, Chris, did you see the video I posted a bit back of what the Panic Attack steering issue looks like?

I didn’t see it.  Would you mind resending the link?

https://youtu.be/S2gJpr8WiM4
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 22, 2020, 05:32:59 AM
Also, Chris, did you see the video I posted a bit back of what the Panic Attack steering issue looks like?


It looks like you are using the 08January build for this video.  Do you still have the problem in the 12January builds and later?  For the 12January build I changed the arena floor from "Metal" to "Steel" so that it matches the Robot Workshop floor.  With this change I was able to make Panic Attack and Roller drive the same on both surfaces.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 22, 2020, 06:29:08 AM
I noticed something (or lack thereof) where I had a bot that lost half of its weapon. It didn't spaz around like it should have. Here's a video:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Which one lost half of its weapon?

I took out the center of mass recalculation code because I’m still working on spinner and wheel physics and I need to eliminate some variables.

My big issue right now is that we are doing a hack to improve drivability.  The hack is not scaling to smaller robots.  This manifests as the problem you see in Beetle Crab where the robot will spontaneously float up on its side.  Beetleweights are in a bad place right now if they have an active weapon.  I need to nail this down to make driving consistent across weight classes.
The eggbeater (player 1) lost half of its weapon but didn’t spaz around like it should have. Condo the fact that half of the eggbeater weighs 11 kg, it should have jumped around like crazy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 22, 2020, 07:17:12 AM
I noticed something (or lack thereof) where I had a bot that lost half of its weapon. It didn't spaz around like it should have. Here's a video:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Which one lost half of its weapon?

I took out the center of mass recalculation code because I’m still working on spinner and wheel physics and I need to eliminate some variables.

My big issue right now is that we are doing a hack to improve drivability.  The hack is not scaling to smaller robots.  This manifests as the problem you see in Beetle Crab where the robot will spontaneously float up on its side.  Beetleweights are in a bad place right now if they have an active weapon.  I need to nail this down to make driving consistent across weight classes.
The eggbeater (player 1) lost half of its weapon but didn’t spaz around like it should have. Condo the fact that half of the eggbeater weighs 11 kg, it should have jumped around like crazy.
Did you not read this line?
Chris: I took out the center of mass recalculation code because I’m still working on spinner and wheel physics and I need to eliminate some variables
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on January 22, 2020, 09:34:19 AM
At the itch.io page you were talking about a damage multiplier. How can I access that? Someone probably said it, but I didn't have a look at this page for months, so sorry for that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on January 22, 2020, 09:41:57 AM
I found it, sorry
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 22, 2020, 09:48:06 AM
Also, Chris, did you see the video I posted a bit back of what the Panic Attack steering issue looks like?


It looks like you are using the 08January build for this video.  Do you still have the problem in the 12January builds and later?  For the 12January build I changed the arena floor from "Metal" to "Steel" so that it matches the Robot Workshop floor.  With this change I was able to make Panic Attack and Roller drive the same on both surfaces.

I have this problem in every build since part damage was added, and in the case of Panic Attack (and Circumvolution with the crusher) the severity varies based on how severe spinner gyro is in a given build, but always remains too much for the bot to be playable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 22, 2020, 10:57:49 AM
Rats.  I'm having trouble replicating the issue.  Could you send me an updated version of either robot that shows the problem?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 22, 2020, 07:30:14 PM
Huh... Circumvolution with the claw suddenly doesn't get the problem anymore... Weird.

Well here's Panic Attack again, though I'm pretty sure this is identical to the last version I sent.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 23, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
I'm getting into the nitty gritty of physics now.  I'm looking at wheel mass, axle mass, and center of mass locations.

So far I have found that Panic Attack's driving is dependent on the value of the "Wheel Mass Ratio" slider.  At 1%, Panic Attack drives great, but other robots' wheels wig out.  At 10% Panic Attack drives poorly, but other robots drive well.  At 50% Panic Attack is completely immobile.

CyarSkirata, can you confirm this on your end?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 23, 2020, 10:43:09 AM
It might be because Panic Attack is so long, and that the wheel friction is too much for it to be able to turn. Maybe you can add wheels to the game that have less friction?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 23, 2020, 12:25:36 PM
CyarSkirata, can you confirm this on your end?

I'll check it in the morning.

It might be because Panic Attack is so long, and that the wheel friction is too much for it to be able to turn. Maybe you can add wheels to the game that have less friction?

The wheel-base isn't actually all that far off square, and the handling problems are directly related to the srimech. They only happen in general use if I have the srimech geared down by a total of *more than* 100/1, and under those conditions the effect is reduced by having the srimech sticking up vertically, rather than pointing horizontally forwards.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 23, 2020, 01:02:36 PM
CyarSkirata, can you confirm this on your end?

I'll check it in the morning.

It might be because Panic Attack is so long, and that the wheel friction is too much for it to be able to turn. Maybe you can add wheels to the game that have less friction?

The wheel-base isn't actually all that far off square, and the handling problems are directly related to the srimech. They only happen in general use if I have the srimech geared down by a total of *more than* 100/1, and under those conditions the effect is reduced by having the srimech sticking up vertically, rather than pointing horizontally forwards.
Why is it geared up so much? Does it not function properly at a lower gearing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on January 23, 2020, 01:23:39 PM
Regarding the Panic Attack issue, it drives perfectly fine  with 15% wheel mass ratio when its weight is lowered to 110 KG.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 23, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
Maybe the drive system should be reworked?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 23, 2020, 04:04:00 PM
I found some weird things today.  I should be able to post more tomorrow.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 23, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
Why is it geared up so much? Does it not function properly at a lower gearing?

It's geared down. Because it's horribly broken if it moves any faster than that, not to mention inauthentic.
Issue being that at the moment, it's even more horribly broken if it moves slow enough, unless you're willing to compromise every other bot by changing settings.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 23, 2020, 08:44:33 PM
I'm getting into the nitty gritty of physics now.  I'm looking at wheel mass, axle mass, and center of mass locations.

So far I have found that Panic Attack's driving is dependent on the value of the "Wheel Mass Ratio" slider.  At 1%, Panic Attack drives great, but other robots' wheels wig out.  At 10% Panic Attack drives poorly, but other robots drive well.  At 50% Panic Attack is completely immobile.

CyarSkirata, can you confirm this on your end?

Yup, confirmed. It looks like for the first time we might be seeing Panic Attack do the same stuff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 24, 2020, 04:07:44 PM
I found a problem with the location of the center of mass of wheels.  For some reason wheels have center of masses that are off-center.  This is causing all sorts of wobble once the wheel rotates, and is even causing some robots to spontaneously flip over on their sides or back.

Robots that use the largest wheels are the least affected.  Beetleweights are completely unplayable.

We are working on a fix now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 24, 2020, 06:18:07 PM
I found a problem with the location of the center of mass of wheels.  For some reason wheels have center of masses that are off-center.  This is causing all sorts of wobble once the wheel rotates, and is even causing some robots to spontaneously flip over on their sides or back.

Robots that use the largest wheels are the least affected.  Beetleweights are completely unplayable.

We are working on a fix now.
Could this fix the jittering on low tick and oscillation on high tick?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 24, 2020, 07:36:01 PM
I believe so.  We won’t know until we have a fix in place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 26, 2020, 05:03:42 PM
I believe so.  We won’t know until we have a fix in place.
How long until this fix is released? I can't wait to see if this fixes the gyrodancing glitch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 26, 2020, 05:09:55 PM
Working on it.  I’m trying a million little things to solve the problem at its source without luck.

In the end I might have to go back and manually fix the center of mass of wheels after the entire assembly is created.  I know this will work for wheels but would not fix any similar problems that might arise for weapons.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 26, 2020, 05:41:22 PM
Working on it.  I’m trying a million little things to solve the problem at its source without luck.

In the end I might have to go back and manually fix the center of mass of wheels after the entire assembly is created.  I know this will work for wheels but would not fix any similar problems that might arise for weapons.
How do I edit the file in Unity? Can I just import the .exe or do you have to send me the project file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 26, 2020, 06:05:53 PM
Working on it.  I’m trying a million little things to solve the problem at its source without luck.

In the end I might have to go back and manually fix the center of mass of wheels after the entire assembly is created.  I know this will work for wheels but would not fix any similar problems that might arise for weapons.
How do I edit the file in Unity? Can I just import the .exe or do you have to send me the project file?
You pretty much need to have the project, and then compile it to a working game

Id help but given my limited unity knowledge i probably would look at it with more questions than answers
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 26, 2020, 11:18:52 PM
Me and Hobo checked a couple of my robots and found an actual, confirmable case of part size scaling up the health too much.

I have a robot with some crushing claws, each part's model being 2cm thick and set to steel 50. They each have a health pool of around 158hp.
Wheely big cheese has cylinders for wheels which are 44cm in diameter, 15 cm thick, and set to steel 1. They each have a health pool of 202hp.

Both the crusher weapon and the wheels are non-wheelfixed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on January 26, 2020, 11:51:57 PM
Adding onto what Cyar was talking about, I built SMEEEEEEE in RR2, but made the wedge out of a scaled up chassis. For some reason, every robot it fights seems to take amplified damage and falls apart incredibly easy, even though SMEEEEEEE is just a wedge.

Here's the file:
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 27, 2020, 01:55:59 PM
HP for custom parts is currently based on the mass of the component.  I’m not sure if this helps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 27, 2020, 05:25:45 PM
What's weird is the gyrodancing glitch with the wheels only occurs on direct attachments.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 06:19:22 AM
I think I finally found and have a fix for the center of mass issues!

I'm planning to upload a bleeding edge build today.  This one will include a COMTracker that will show the local of the center of mass of all rigid bodies.

You guys are going to love the COMTrackers.  They are an obnoxious magenta. :)

Team Lightning, I concur with the direct attachments issue.  With this new build, the COM should be recomputed correctly immediately after the robot spawns, and whenever parts fall off.  You should be able to see if the COM is in the wrong spot right away.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on January 28, 2020, 07:46:44 AM
Sounds like a great addition to the game!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 09:32:09 AM
The new 28January2020 Bleeding Edge Test Build is out:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

This build is designed to help solve the problems we are having with driving and other physics weirdness like robots spontaneously deciding to lean over on their side for no apparent reason.  The root cause has been an improperly computed location of the center of mass, particularly for wheels that are attached directly to motors.  This problem has made beetleweights completely impossible.  Beetleweights appear to be driving correctly now.

For this bleeding edge build I have included COMTrackers that visualize the location of the center of mass of each rigidbody.  Any time you add a motor and attach something to it, you are adding an additional rigidbody.

Please give it a try and let me know if you are still seeing issues.

[Added] Added COMTracker.cs to track the location of all the centers of mass of every rigidbody on a robot.

[Added] Added COM_Controller.cs. This script should correctly compute the COM of a rigidbody based on the center of mass of each of its Component_Info components. This can be done repeatedly at runtime. I still need to do extensive testing to make sure the script works in all cases. If it does, then it should be possible to apply the script to things that have lost parts due to damage, as well as broken pieces lying around the arena.

[Added] Added COM_Controller to rigidbodies spawns when a component breaks off.

[Added] COM_Controller.recomputeCOM() is now called on the original rigidbody when a component breaks off.

[Added] Added more hotkeys (now hotkeys can be shift/ctrl + key): -close pause menu, hotkey screen and help screen with the same keys for opening those screens. -Toggle workbench with B key. -Toggle music with N key. -Cycle through music tracks with ctrl + N. -Confirm on popups is enter, cancel in popups is backspace or escape. -You can move through the botlab sections using the right and left Arrow.

[Removed] Removed the makeup mass code from SpinnerMassReducer. By using the COMTracker spheres, I noticed that the center of mass was not in the right location, and could completely throw off the balance of a robot.

[Changed] Set the axle mass of various motors to 0.000001 kg: AmpFlow A40-300 37 mm Geared 37 mm Ungeared 22 mm Geared
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 28, 2020, 09:49:42 AM
The new 28January2020 Bleeding Edge Test Build is out:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

This build is designed to help solve the problems we are having with driving and other physics weirdness like robots spontaneously deciding to lean over on their side for no apparent reason.  The root cause has been an improperly computed location of the center of mass, particularly for wheels that are attached directly to motors.  This problem has made beetleweights completely impossible.  Beetleweights appear to be driving correctly now.

For this bleeding edge build I have included COMTrackers that visualize the location of the center of mass of each rigidbody.  Any time you add a motor and attach something to it, you are adding an additional rigidbody.

Please give it a try and let me know if you are still seeing issues.

[Added] Added COMTracker.cs to track the location of all the centers of mass of every rigidbody on a robot.

[Added] Added COM_Controller.cs. This script should correctly compute the COM of a rigidbody based on the center of mass of each of its Component_Info components. This can be done repeatedly at runtime. I still need to do extensive testing to make sure the script works in all cases. If it does, then it should be possible to apply the script to things that have lost parts due to damage, as well as broken pieces lying around the arena.

[Added] Added COM_Controller to rigidbodies spawns when a component breaks off.

[Added] COM_Controller.recomputeCOM() is now called on the original rigidbody when a component breaks off.

[Added] Added more hotkeys (now hotkeys can be shift/ctrl + key): -close pause menu, hotkey screen and help screen with the same keys for opening those screens. -Toggle workbench with B key. -Toggle music with N key. -Cycle through music tracks with ctrl + N. -Confirm on popups is enter, cancel in popups is backspace or escape. -You can move through the botlab sections using the right and left Arrow.

[Removed] Removed the makeup mass code from SpinnerMassReducer. By using the COMTracker spheres, I noticed that the center of mass was not in the right location, and could completely throw off the balance of a robot.

[Changed] Set the axle mass of various motors to 0.000001 kg: AmpFlow A40-300 37 mm Geared 37 mm Ungeared 22 mm Geared

There is no windows build download link
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 09:55:28 AM
Sorry about that! 

RR2-Windows-28January2020-BleedingEdgeTestBuild.zip is up now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 28, 2020, 11:12:49 AM
Ok so a quick test, and i can tell that driving didnt really improve. 420-500 tick is still way to go without jitter

One thing i did notice is that there is no more weird oscillation where the bot feels like its too light and has next to no gravity, which is a good thing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on January 28, 2020, 12:48:48 PM
Imma just post these pics here as I saw this on Twitter:
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 01:41:21 PM
Ok so a quick test, and i can tell that driving didnt really improve. 420-500 tick is still way to go without jitter

One thing i did notice is that there is no more weird oscillation where the bot feels like its too light and has next to no gravity, which is a good thing

For most heavyweight robots there shouldn't be too much difference.

The bad COM calculation only caused the following problems that I am aware of:

1. All robots with wheels attached directly to motors (rather than through a gearbox) had COMs that were farther out along the axis.  This was pretty much unnoticeable for heavyweights, but crippling for beetleweights.  1.5 kg Beetleweights couldn't steer at all, and often had wheels floating above the ground.  30 kg robots were still drivable, but they suffered from severe steering problems.

2. When parts broke off, there was no change to COM of the remaining robot.

3. When parts broke off, they would sometimes have a weird COM that caused them to suspend awkwardly in the air.

Under the new build, please check to see that the COM of your rigidbodies are always inside the robot.  You shouldn't see much, if any, magenta on your robot.  If you see a big magenta line then I did something wrong and need to take a look.  Please send me the .RR2Bot file.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 01:42:05 PM
Imma just post these pics here as I saw this on Twitter:

More to come on this soon!  :claping
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 28, 2020, 02:09:21 PM
Hey guys!

Sorry for being quiet but I have been INCREDIBLY busy working on the game as the new creative director for the game!  :cool:

As posted on Twitter, there are some new arenas coming to the game soon:

The School Tournament Arena

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A request from cjbruce, this arena is a replica of the real life arena his students fight their robots in! Perfect for the lighter weights.

Parking Lot

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Location: London, England

"Amateur bot builders from here and the surrounding areas meet regularly to pit their machines against each other in this improvised cage-arena. But be warned - the lack of security cameras means there's no holds barred!"
Hazards include four shredding spinners and a barrier of tires to pin your opponent up on.

The Twisted Circus

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Location: Paris, France

"This arena is the ultimate test of your driving skills! As part of their show interlude, this circus hosts Robot Builders to provide some destructive entertainment for their audience. Just make sure you've taken your motion sickness tablets!"

No damaging hazards, although your driving skills WILL be tested! An example of just what is possible within the game compared to other similar titles.


There is still a LOT more to come, so please keep on watching this space!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 28, 2020, 02:35:03 PM
Okay, so my bot RIPtear mk2 looked like this:

Is this good or bad?
EDIT: The image attachment system broke for me :( .
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 28, 2020, 02:43:46 PM
Anything pink is a temporary indication for the COM calculator.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 02:50:11 PM
Okay, so my bot RIPtear mk2 looked like this:

Is this good or bad?
EDIT: The image attachment system broke for me :( .

It looks like there is a COM sphere that is slightly to the right of a bar.  That's weird.  It looks like you have a COM that might be outside of the bounds of the robot.

Can you send me the .RR2Bot file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 02:54:58 PM
WhamettNuht found a crashing bug.  I forgot to account for the case where the rigidbody has zero mass (all of the components are broken off).  This caused a divide by zero condition which would crash the game to the main menu.  The fix will set the affected rigidbody's COM to the origin point of the object.

Bug fix coming soon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 28, 2020, 03:08:09 PM
Okay, so my bot RIPtear mk2 looked like this:

Is this good or bad?
EDIT: The image attachment system broke for me :( .

It looks like there is a COM sphere that is slightly to the right of a bar.  That's weird.  It looks like you have a COM that might be outside of the bounds of the robot.

Can you send me the .RR2Bot file?
Here ya go:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 28, 2020, 03:28:12 PM
Ok so this sawbot crashes the game when it hits something at high speed and force.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 28, 2020, 03:39:02 PM
A request from cjbruce, this arena is a replica of the real life arena his students fight their robots in! Perfect for the lighter weights.

How come every school in existence seems to have robot fighting except for any of the ones I ever went to?  :frown:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 04:11:34 PM
Ok so this sawbot crashes the game when it hits something at high speed and force.

Crash fix coming soon.  It was a stupid mistake that was easy to spot and fix.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 28, 2020, 04:50:32 PM
Ok so this sawbot crashes the game when it hits something at high speed and force.

Crash fix coming soon.  It was a stupid mistake that was easy to spot and fix.
How soon?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 28, 2020, 05:35:08 PM
Idk if the fix will fix this, but small parts tend to clip into opponent. Lets say a small spinner tooth hits an opponents, the tooth will most likely get stuck and it will be that way until it breaks off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 28, 2020, 07:10:31 PM
Idk if the fix will fix this, but small parts tend to clip into opponent. Lets say a small spinner tooth hits an opponents, the tooth will most likely get stuck and it will be that way until it breaks off

Nope.  That is something that happens with compound colliders and discrete physics like we are using.  I tried switching to continuous physics a few times, but it made wheels bounce all over the place so I switched back.

The blur cylinder completely eliminates the problem if we set it to turn on at a low enough speed.  Maybe I can play with this a bit.  It will only work for spinner weapons though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 29, 2020, 03:52:33 AM
Idk if the fix will fix this, but small parts tend to clip into opponent. Lets say a small spinner tooth hits an opponents, the tooth will most likely get stuck and it will be that way until it breaks off

Nope.  That is something that happens with compound colliders and discrete physics like we are using.  I tried switching to continuous physics a few times, but it made wheels bounce all over the place so I switched back.

The blur cylinder completely eliminates the problem if we set it to turn on at a low enough speed.  Maybe I can play with this a bit.  It will only work for spinner weapons though.
Well spinners pretty much cause the issues

Now there is an issue where if a part reaches 0hp and breaks off it will get stuck in the bot and cause the bot to gyro and not drive in general. How about when the part reaches 0hp and breaks off, it disables collision, launces upwards and then regains collision while in air.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 29, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
The 29January2020 Alpha build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This one fixes the crashing bug introduced in the Bleeding Edge Build.

It also adds a 12V AmpFlow A28-150 motor.   This is a less-powerful lower voltage motor we use for our lightweight class robots.

The COMTrackers are no longer visible in this build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 29, 2020, 01:20:54 PM
I haven't said anything about it until now since it slipped my mind, but I've been having an interesting situation with Panic Attack these last few builds.

The slow-weapon version no longer gets phantom gyro until the main body of the srimech comes off the gearbox, but every version still has that issue from jan 17 of having too much traction to steer properly.

Also: Is it possible to turn off the pink COM spears of doom on detached parts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 29, 2020, 01:38:45 PM
I haven't said anything about it until now since it slipped my mind, but I've been having an interesting situation with Panic Attack these last few builds.

...every version still has that issue from jan 17 of having too much traction to steer properly.

This effect happens in real life too.  4-wheel tank steering can be problematic.  With 2 wheels, the wheels only have to roll forward or backward when turning.  Whenever you have four wheels with some wheels in front of others the wheels have to skid sideways.  The longer the wheelbase compared to the width, the more pronounced this affect.  The better the traction, the more pronounced the effect.

I believe that the solution for Panic Attack is to shorten and widen the wheelbase as much as possible, though I haven't tried.

I'm planning to set the Wheel Mass Ratio at 10-15% for future builds.  Panic Attack drives best when I set it at 1%, but this makes other robots completely undriveable as the wheels skitter all over the place and aren't capable of pushing the chassis.

Also: Is it possible to turn off the pink COM spears of doom on detached parts?

Done!  Check out the Alpha build I just posted.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 29, 2020, 04:39:51 PM
It also adds a 12V AmpFlow A28-150 motor.   This is a less-powerful lower voltage motor we use for our lightweight class robots.
Ok but when are we getting brushless motors?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 29, 2020, 04:43:42 PM
We’ve got one in the art pipeline.  I haven’t decided how to handle the performance characteristics.  Maybe it is only usable with a belt drive?  Maybe it has very little low speed torque?  Has anyone built a real robot with brushless motors?  A heavyweight?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 29, 2020, 04:58:30 PM
We’ve got one in the art pipeline.  I haven’t decided how to handle the performance characteristics.  Maybe it is only usable with a belt drive?  Maybe it has very little low speed torque?  Has anyone built a real robot with brushless motors?  A heavyweight?
There are many HW bots with Brushless motors, Pulsar/Magnetar is one (iirc it used brushless motors for drive). Atm the issue is that many compact bots have to rely on weaker motors for their spinners, where bigger bots just can use the montenegry(etek) motors.
For the compensation for the motor itself to not be overused. Well IRL as you possibly know, Brushless motors are more fragile and are tend to overheat easily. Because the game atm has no overheating. Maybe compensate with the motor being heavy (unlike irl where its lighter than brushed), till we get overheating stuff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 29, 2020, 07:04:08 PM
We’ve got one in the art pipeline.  I haven’t decided how to handle the performance characteristics.  Maybe it is only usable with a belt drive?  Maybe it has very little low speed torque?  Has anyone built a real robot with brushless motors?  A heavyweight?
There are many HW bots with Brushless motors, Pulsar/Magnetar is one (iirc it used brushless motors for drive). Atm the issue is that many compact bots have to rely on weaker motors for their spinners, where bigger bots just can use the montenegry(etek) motors.
For the compensation for the motor itself to not be overused. Well IRL as you possibly know, Brushless motors are more fragile and are tend to overheat easily. Because the game atm has no overheating. Maybe compensate with the motor being heavy (unlike irl where its lighter than brushed), till we get overheating stuff.
For overheating, couldn't you add a variable that is incremented whenever the motor is on but not spinning?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 29, 2020, 07:52:07 PM
My Tombstonish horizontal spinner is much easier to control with the COG correction :claping  Actually, I find all my bots much easier to control!

Totally looking forward to the new damage system so I don't have to go crazy building ultra-destructable bots :dance:

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 01:34:53 AM
I believe that the solution for Panic Attack is to shorten and widen the wheelbase as much as possible, though I haven't tried.

The issue I have with that is twofold. Partly that there isn't really room to do that without clipping until multiple wheels can be belted to one motor, partly that the real thing - albeit with six wheels - had a wheelbase just as long as this one and handled fine.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 30, 2020, 03:06:45 AM
The issue I have with that is twofold. Partly that there isn't really room to do that without clipping until multiple wheels can be belted to one motor, partly that the real thing - albeit with six wheels - had a wheelbase just as long as this one and handled fine.

Have you tried building the robot with 6 wheels? Having two wheels in the middle of the robot will most likely give Panic Attack more control when turning as it has more of a 'pivot point'.

If you're concerned about weight, you could always have the front pair of wheels motor'ed and the back ones mounted to a free axle?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on January 30, 2020, 04:01:46 AM
I think, I found an issue with the new build. Some asymmetrical spinners, that were balanced before are now unbalanced
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 06:05:24 AM
I think, I found an issue with the new build. Some asymmetrical spinners, that were balanced before are now unbalanced

The COM calculation has changed several times over the past few months.

Method #1 - The first iteration weighted ALL colliders based on their volume.  Even ones that shouldn't have been included (i.e. invisible colliders that were used as attachment points for the Botlab).

Method #2 - The next few iterations removed the invisible colliders, but assumed all colliders had the same material density.  This means that selecting "steel" or "aluminum" for a collider farther out didn't shift the COM.

Method #3 - One of the most recent iterations attempted to determine the COM based on the location and mass of each component (i.e. the entire shape) rather than using the individual colliders.  This is the desired method, but due to a bug in the calculation it did not correctly account for non-uniform scaling of the component.  In the case of Panic Attack, Method #3 placed the srimech's COM about 1.5 meters out in front of the robot.  This caused the srimech to respond too slowly.  Also, if broken off, the srimech would hang vertically from a point in the air.

For the current 29January Alpha Build, I have reverted to Method #2 above.  It isn't what I want, but at least it doesn't sometimes place COMs 1 meter outside of the robot.

I would really like to get Method #3 working correctly.  In the meanwhile, just be mentally prepared to tweak the balance of asymmetrical spinners over the next few builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 06:06:20 AM
I believe that the solution for Panic Attack is to shorten and widen the wheelbase as much as possible, though I haven't tried.

The issue I have with that is twofold. Partly that there isn't really room to do that without clipping until multiple wheels can be belted to one motor, partly that the real thing - albeit with six wheels - had a wheelbase just as long as this one and handled fine.

Maybe we can play around with friction coefficient to see if we can better match reality?

I sense another slider in our future! :)

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 30, 2020, 07:28:17 AM
Oh yeah i forgot to ask this back yesterday, but when are we getting elastics? Something to retract arms of flippers
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 08:10:45 AM
I believe that the solution for Panic Attack is to shorten and widen the wheelbase as much as possible, though I haven't tried.

The issue I have with that is twofold. Partly that there isn't really room to do that without clipping until multiple wheels can be belted to one motor, partly that the real thing - albeit with six wheels - had a wheelbase just as long as this one and handled fine.

Maybe we can play around with friction coefficient to see if we can better match reality?

I sense another slider in our future! :)

Another thing to consider is that the real life Panic Attack wasn't driven by someone using a keyboard.  It was driven with a very expensive controller with high precision analog sticks (i.e. not the relatively inexpensive ones that come in an Xbox or PS4 controller).  This enabled the driver to carefully control the signal to the wheels.

Panic Attack turns fairly quickly with the keyboard if you don't try to drive forward or backward at the same time as you turn.  I am hoping to get a Spektrum WS2000 USB receiver to pair with our Spektrum DX6 radio transmitters.  This will allow me to test the RR2 driving dynamics with the actual controllers we use in real life.  I am curious to put Panic Attack through a series of tests to see how the simulated robot performs compares to the real robot.

Does anyone know if Panic Attack's creator is on GTM? :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 08:12:30 AM
Likewise, does anyone have any real-life experience with 4-wheeled robots?  It would be nice to get some turning and driving feel feedback.

All of our robots use 2 wheel drive.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 30, 2020, 09:57:45 AM
Likewise, does anyone have any real-life experience with 4-wheeled robots?  It would be nice to get some turning and driving feel feedback.

All of our robots use 2 wheel drive.

Our former featherweight was four wheeled skid steering.

Feel free to email me about this :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 11:31:08 AM
Panic Attack turns fairly quickly with the keyboard if you don't try to drive forward or backward at the same time as you turn.

Okay... Now I'm confused.
I have the exact opposite problem. I can only get it to turn at a decent rate by getting up some speed and drifting it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 12:14:08 PM
The issue I have with that is twofold. Partly that there isn't really room to do that without clipping until multiple wheels can be belted to one motor, partly that the real thing - albeit with six wheels - had a wheelbase just as long as this one and handled fine.

Have you tried building the robot with 6 wheels? Having two wheels in the middle of the robot will most likely give Panic Attack more control when turning as it has more of a 'pivot point'.

If you're concerned about weight, you could always have the front pair of wheels motor'ed and the back ones mounted to a free axle?

Like I said in that same post, there isn't room. :/
There physically isn't enough space inside the chassis to do that without clipping parts.

EDIT: To clarify, the back end of the motor for each front wheel sits right where the gearbox axle would need to go for the middle wheel, even if I did remove the motors for the rear wheels. Unless I belted the middle wheels from the existing positions of the rear gearboxes, at which point the belt would be clipping with both the motor and gearbox.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 12:20:50 PM
Also: Is it possible to turn off the pink COM spears of doom on detached parts?

Done!  Check out the Alpha build I just posted.

Oh, and if you mean the Jan 29 build, I was already using it when I asked that.

EDIT: Sorry for the multipost there, I kept checking back and seeing more things I needed to mention or reply to that were unrelated enough to feel weird adding onto existing posts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 12:47:45 PM
Panic Attack turns fairly quickly with the keyboard if you don't try to drive forward or backward at the same time as you turn.

Okay... Now I'm confused.
I have the exact opposite problem. I can only get it to turn at a decent rate by getting up some speed and drifting it.

What is your setting for Wheel Mass Ratio?  I've been using 10%.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 01:15:21 PM
Panic Attack turns fairly quickly with the keyboard if you don't try to drive forward or backward at the same time as you turn.

Okay... Now I'm confused.
I have the exact opposite problem. I can only get it to turn at a decent rate by getting up some speed and drifting it.

What is your setting for Wheel Mass Ratio?  I've been using 10%.

Mine's at 10 too
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 03:00:35 PM
Panic Attack turns fairly quickly with the keyboard if you don't try to drive forward or backward at the same time as you turn.

Okay... Now I'm confused.
I have the exact opposite problem. I can only get it to turn at a decent rate by getting up some speed and drifting it.

What is your setting for Wheel Mass Ratio?  I've been using 10%.

Mine's at 10 too

Here are my slider settings for the 29January2020 Alpha Build:

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/physicsslidersettings.png)

Here's what I'm seeing with Panic Attack.  It turns very similarly to other robots.  It took 0.70 seconds to complete a 180 degree turn after I hit the right arrow key.

Is the robot taking significantly longer than this to complete a turn for you?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/gifs/panicattackturning.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 30, 2020, 03:09:41 PM
Could it be the tick rate?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 30, 2020, 03:30:09 PM
COMING SOON TO THE GAME:

Updated model for AmpFlow A28-150 + individual gearbox

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

AND - I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on January 30, 2020, 03:37:59 PM
damn these look HOT


gj
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 30, 2020, 03:41:09 PM
COMING SOON TO THE GAME:

Updated model for AmpFlow A28-150 + individual gearbox

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

AND - I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
I love you man
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on January 30, 2020, 04:10:21 PM
I love you man

You'll love me even more when you know I've got a brushless motor in the works lol
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 30, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
I love you man

You'll love me even more when you know I've got a brushless motor in the works lol
Oh yessss
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on January 30, 2020, 06:25:08 PM
Is the robot taking significantly longer than this to complete a turn for you?

Yup, longer than that.

In other news, I just built a thwackbot that works perfectly in the test area, but I can't make it thwack in the arena. :(
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 30, 2020, 06:40:18 PM
COMING SOON TO THE GAME:

Updated model for AmpFlow A28-150 + individual gearbox

 

AND - I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 30, 2020, 07:11:24 PM
Is the robot taking significantly longer than this to complete a turn for you?

Yup, longer than that.

In other news, I just built a thwackbot that works perfectly in the test area, but I can't make it thwack in the arena. :(
Yeah, my thwackbot couldnt do that since jan 9 update. It seems like its slow motion. The arm swings so slowly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on January 30, 2020, 08:54:21 PM
I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

But can you accurately simulate the annoyance of the holes not being mirrored on either side  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 30, 2020, 09:08:10 PM
All thwackbots will need to be rebalanced after the build that I’m working on now. 

I finally got the the center of mass calculation working correctly based on components.  This means it should be really easy to adjust a thwackbot by putting a shape out near the edge and adjusting its thickness or material.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 31, 2020, 05:41:57 AM
I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

But can you accurately simulate the annoyance of the holes not being mirrored on either side  :mrgreen:

Ooo!  What a fun challenge!

@tashic? :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on January 31, 2020, 06:31:28 AM
Is the spark slider coming anytime soon?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on January 31, 2020, 06:53:46 AM
I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

But can you accurately simulate the annoyance of the holes not being mirrored on either side  :mrgreen:

Ooo!  What a fun challenge!

@tashic? :)
No, no, no, pls no
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on January 31, 2020, 12:42:59 PM
COMING SOON TO THE GAME:

Updated model for AmpFlow A28-150 + individual gearbox

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

AND - I have managed to bag the game permission to use NPC. For the time being they have let us use the T-64 motor.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
I'm really looking forward to those!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on January 31, 2020, 09:25:23 PM
Is there a place folks are uploading their RR2 creations for others to download?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 01, 2020, 06:42:12 AM
Is there a place folks are uploading their RR2 creations for others to download?

Not yet, as far as I'm aware. But I do know there are one or two ideas in the works.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 01, 2020, 08:44:46 AM
Is there a place folks are uploading their RR2 creations for others to download?
I upload my bots in my showcase.
Here's a link: https://gametechmods.com/forums/robot-rumble-2-0-showcases/team-lightning's-showcase/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 01, 2020, 09:25:04 PM
Thank you for sharing!  I was disappointed to see that GTM doesn't have a repository for any RR2 bots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 02, 2020, 10:02:47 AM
Thank you for sharing!  I was disappointed to see that GTM doesn't have a repository for any RR2 bots.
You’re welcome. If you want to, you can modify them and post them on my showcase so I can get ideas.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 02, 2020, 03:36:23 PM
All thwackbots will need to be rebalanced after the build that I’m working on now. 

I finally got the the center of mass calculation working correctly based on components.  This means it should be really easy to adjust a thwackbot by putting a shape out near the edge and adjusting its thickness or material.
When is this build coming out?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 02, 2020, 03:43:47 PM
Soon!  I was hoping to put the new arenas in the build, but they aren’t quite ready.

I can do a build with just the physics if you would like.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 02, 2020, 03:48:30 PM
Soon!  I was hoping to put the new arenas in the build, but they aren’t quite ready.

I can do a build with just the physics if you would like.
YES, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 02, 2020, 04:35:16 PM
YAY DOUBLE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I know I've brought this up before, but
Can you fix the telemetry?
I can try!  Can you point me to a few .RR2Bot files with the symptoms?  The more, the better!
I mean the glitch where the telemetry screen doesn't turn off when the telemetry button is pressed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 05:22:44 AM
Just fixed the telemetry button in the robot workshop.  It now toggles correctly.

I should have a new Alpha build up within the next few hours.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 03, 2020, 06:23:12 AM
Just fixed the telemetry button in the robot workshop.  It now toggles correctly.

I should have a new Alpha build up within the next few hours.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 06:26:16 AM
The 03February2020 Build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


[Updates in the February 3rd Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed manual Center of Mass (COM) calculation bug. COM is now computed correctly based on the location and mass of components, rather than the location of colliders.  If COM was important to a robot (i.e. an overhead thwackbot), the robot will need to be rebalanced.  This can be done by changing shape materials, changing thickness of the shape, shifting the location of components, or by adding or removing components.

[Added] New shape prefabs. The new geo cylinders and hollow cylinders make for some beautiful discs! The hollow box is great for chassis components.

[Added] New Aluminium Treadplate amour​​

[Added] More hotkeys added on these parts of the botlab:

-Intro screen (enter to start);

-chassis screen;

-shape creator;

-overview screen.

[Changed] Refined the list of the hotkey screen:

-Made the window bigger to fit more hotkeys when necessary;

-Merge certain combination of keys (when an action has both left and right shift buttons, it just shows "shift", same thing done for ctrl and notmal/keypad digits);

-Depending on the section of the botlab the player is in, it shows the appropriate hotkeys;

[Changed] Now the hotkeys can trigger the popups that appeared when a non interactable element was clicked.​

[Removed] Removed sliders for Wheel Mass Ratio, Spinner Mass Ratio, Spinner Impulse, and Spinner Pushout. User feedback has converged on values for these variables, and the sliders appear to no longer be necessary. The gamewide values for these are now hard coded as follows: Wheel Mass Ratio = 0.1 Minimum Spinner Mass Ratio = 0.1 Spinner Impulse = 1.0 Spinner Pushout = 1.0​

[Changed] Changed materials of the motors.

[Bug Fix] Fixed Telemetry Toggle button in Robot Workshop test cage. It now toggles the telemetry display on and off.​
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 03, 2020, 10:37:25 AM
The 03February2020 Build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


[Updates in the February 3rd Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed manual Center of Mass (COM) calculation bug. COM is now computed correctly based on the location and mass of components, rather than the location of colliders.  If COM was important to a robot (i.e. an overhead thwackbot), the robot will need to be rebalanced.  This can be done by changing shape materials, changing thickness of the shape, shifting the location of components, or by adding or removing components.

[Added] New shape prefabs. The new geo cylinders and hollow cylinders make for some beautiful discs! The hollow box is great for chassis components.

[Added] New Aluminium Treadplate amour​​

[Added] More hotkeys added on these parts of the botlab:

-Intro screen (enter to start);

-chassis screen;

-shape creator;

-overview screen.

[Changed] Refined the list of the hotkey screen:

-Made the window bigger to fit more hotkeys when necessary;

-Merge certain combination of keys (when an action has both left and right shift buttons, it just shows "shift", same thing done for ctrl and notmal/keypad digits);

-Depending on the section of the botlab the player is in, it shows the appropriate hotkeys;

[Changed] Now the hotkeys can trigger the popups that appeared when a non interactable element was clicked.​

[Removed] Removed sliders for Wheel Mass Ratio, Spinner Mass Ratio, Spinner Impulse, and Spinner Pushout. User feedback has converged on values for these variables, and the sliders appear to no longer be necessary. The gamewide values for these are now hard coded as follows: Wheel Mass Ratio = 0.1 Minimum Spinner Mass Ratio = 0.1 Spinner Impulse = 1.0 Spinner Pushout = 1.0​

[Changed] Changed materials of the motors.

[Bug Fix] Fixed Telemetry Toggle button in Robot Workshop test cage. It now toggles the telemetry display on and off.​

The build is amazing. I have nothing much negative to say about it.
Only issue is that i find NPC to be a bit too weak of a drive motor. Seems like torque might need to go up a bit
Oh and i used to use arrow keys to move tabs is a bad thing, especially for people who use arrows to change the part location numbers
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gauche Suede on February 03, 2020, 11:19:47 AM
I haven't downloaded this build yet but I just wanna ask, is there a way to create true spherical armor in this game? I've always didnt like how RA2's chassis creation had no way to handle actual spheres (or pure triangles)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 03, 2020, 11:46:20 AM
I haven't downloaded this build yet but I just wanna ask, is there a way to create true spherical armor in this game? I've always didnt like how RA2's chassis creation had no way to handle actual spheres (or pure triangles)
chassis creation is like ra3 (so just like RA2, but with more than 2 layers)
You cann attach sphere parts (or half sphere)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 12:40:16 PM
I haven't downloaded this build yet but I just wanna ask, is there a way to create true spherical armor in this game? I've always didnt like how RA2's chassis creation had no way to handle actual spheres (or pure triangles)

Two techniques:

1. Create a series of quadrilaterals in the shape creator and assemble them into a dome.
2. Scale a half-sphere to the necessary dimensions.

Please understand that according to a computer, a sphere is just a smoothed multifaceted polyhedron with lots of faces.

In the game, if you manually assemble the faces yourself (technique #1 above), the faces will break off in chunks.  If you were to use a single half-sphere piece, it would break off as a single piece.

EDIT - Robot Rumble 2 has a built-in shape creation tool that can be used for arbitrary shapes, not just the chassis.  This opens up the ability to built pretty much whatever you want if you have enough time and patience.  It is an EXTREMELY stripped down 3D modeling tool.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 03:25:36 PM
For the next build I’m going to start the process of reducing the number of colliders.  This should speed up physics and prevent little shapes from getting stuck inside of robots when they break off.

So far, Panic Attack has almost 300 colliders.  Circumvolution has 260.  I’m going to try to get all robots below 50 colliders using some tricks.  I hope to have something out to you guys in the next few days.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 03, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
So the gyrodancing glitch is back :/. Yay.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 04:43:57 PM
So the gyrodancing glitch is back :/. Yay.

What do you mean when you use the words “gyro dancing glitch”? 

To me gyro dancing is the result of applying a steering input to a rapidly spinning vertical spinner. This is not a glitch.  It is something that i happens in real life.

Is it possible to post a video that clearly shows the behavior you are concerned about?  If it is truly gyro dancing, then it doesn’t need to be fixed because it is the correct behavior.  If it is something other than gyro dancing, let’s come up with a better name for the concerning effect.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on February 03, 2020, 05:29:20 PM
Oh and i used to use arrow keys to move tabs is a bad thing, especially for people who use arrows to change the part location numbers

I have to agree with Kix here, I frequently use the arrow keys to change part location/size/colour tint number and it’s been frustrating to have this hot-keyed to changing tabs.

Everything else added in this build is exceptional work and from what I can see so far is working as intended, I’m looking forward to putting the new shapes to use.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 03, 2020, 05:38:13 PM
So the gyrodancing glitch is back :/. Yay.

What do you mean when you use the words “gyro dancing glitch”? 

To me gyro dancing is the result of applying a steering input to a rapidly spinning vertical spinner. This is not a glitch.  It is something that i happens in real life.

Is it possible to post a video that clearly shows the behavior you are concerned about?  If it is truly gyro dancing, then it doesn’t need to be fixed because it is the correct behavior.  If it is something other than gyro dancing, let’s come up with a better name for the concerning effect.
The glitch I’m talking about is the one where you tear off someone’s wheel and they gyro around like they have a drum spinner even if they are weapon less.
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build: EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 06:01:07 PM
So the gyrodancing glitch is back :/. Yay.

What do you mean when you use the words “gyro dancing glitch”? 

To me gyro dancing is the result of applying a steering input to a rapidly spinning vertical spinner. This is not a glitch.  It is something that i happens in real life.

Is it possible to post a video that clearly shows the behavior you are concerned about?  If it is truly gyro dancing, then it doesn’t need to be fixed because it is the correct behavior.  If it is something other than gyro dancing, let’s come up with a better name for the concerning effect.
The glitch I’m talking about is the one where you tear off someone’s wheel and they gyro around like they have a drum spinner even if they are weapon less.
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build: EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

Ah.  Gotcha.  Maybe we can call it the “tilting glitch”?  I’ll look at it as soon as I can.  I’m pretty sure I know where the mistake is...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 03, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
So the gyrodancing glitch is back :/. Yay.

What do you mean when you use the words “gyro dancing glitch”? 

To me gyro dancing is the result of applying a steering input to a rapidly spinning vertical spinner. This is not a glitch.  It is something that i happens in real life.

Is it possible to post a video that clearly shows the behavior you are concerned about?  If it is truly gyro dancing, then it doesn’t need to be fixed because it is the correct behavior.  If it is something other than gyro dancing, let’s come up with a better name for the concerning effect.
The glitch I’m talking about is the one where you tear off someone’s wheel and they gyro around like they have a drum spinner even if they are weapon less.
I noticed this glitch in the 03January build: EDIT: The robot that is gyrodancing has no spinning weapons.

Ah.  Gotcha.  Maybe we can call it the “tilting glitch”?  I’ll look at it as soon as I can.  I’m pretty sure I know where the mistake is...
I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 03, 2020, 06:31:38 PM
Rubber wheels seem to be registered as spinners again.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 03, 2020, 06:32:16 PM
Rubber wheels seem to be registered as spinners again.
I noticed that too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 06:56:07 PM
Rubber wheels seem to be registered as spinners again.

What are the symptoms you are seeing?

EDIT - This was fixed many builds ago.

EDIT #2 - Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file that exhibits the symptoms you are seeing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 03, 2020, 06:56:53 PM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 03, 2020, 09:03:34 PM
Rubber wheels seem to be registered as spinners again.

What are the symptoms you are seeing?


Well, any rubber wheels will show up in the telemetry as spinners, which didn't happen in previous builds.
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 03, 2020, 10:39:28 PM
Circumvolution has had an occasional problem for awhile where when a part of the flywheel breaks off, child components of that part will stay attached, hovering and still a capable part of the weapon.

Sometimes, the central axle will come off from the impacts of the teeth on an opponent (already concerning), and only take one of the flywheel sections with it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 04, 2020, 05:10:48 AM
Only issue is that i find NPC to be a bit too weak of a drive motor. Seems like torque might need to go up a bit
Ok so the NPC motor isnt slow as i thought, the rubber material seems to not have any grip at all
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 04, 2020, 05:38:32 AM
Circumvolution has had an occasional problem for awhile where when a part of the flywheel breaks off, child components of that part will stay attached, hovering and still a capable part of the weapon.

Sometimes, the central axle will come off from the impacts of the teeth on an opponent (already concerning), and only take one of the flywheel sections with it.

This is a result of how the components are attached to each other in the tree structure.

Each component has a parent.  If a parent breaks off, all of the children also break off.  If a component's parent has not broken off, the component and all of its children remain.

In Circumvolution's case, this means that there are many many bits and pieces attached to other bits and pieces.  It is easy to lose track of which piece is parented to which when building.

I am looking to do some automatic collider reduction.  This should help reduce the problem, but won't eliminate it entirely.  Fewer colliders = things break off in larger chunks.  It would still be possible for something to break off in an unrealistic way if components were attached to components in a weird way.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 04, 2020, 05:56:56 AM
Well, any rubber wheels will show up in the telemetry as spinners, which didn't happen in previous builds.
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Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file?

I have a hunch, but don't have a good robot to test with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 04, 2020, 06:11:01 AM
Circumvolution has had an occasional problem for awhile where when a part of the flywheel breaks off, child components of that part will stay attached, hovering and still a capable part of the weapon.

Sometimes, the central axle will come off from the impacts of the teeth on an opponent (already concerning), and only take one of the flywheel sections with it.

This is a result of how the components are attached to each other in the tree structure.

Each component has a parent.  If a parent breaks off, all of the children also break off.  If a component's parent has not broken off, the component and all of its children remain.

In Circumvolution's case, this means that there are many many bits and pieces attached to other bits and pieces.  It is easy to lose track of which piece is parented to which when building.

I am looking to do some automatic collider reduction.  This should help reduce the problem, but won't eliminate it entirely.  Fewer colliders = things break off in larger chunks.  It would still be possible for something to break off in an unrealistic way if components were attached to components in a weird way.

I didn't lose track of it though. :/
When I reworked it to add the beefed up axle, I even re-attached *everything* to the axle.

Also, on that note, it's impossible to break off the decorative parts of Panic Attack's srimech.
As in: when the main plate of the srimech breaks off, everything decorative stays attached.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 04, 2020, 06:28:56 AM

...the rubber material seems to not have any grip at all

...more evidence to my hunch.  I assume you are creating custom wheels...

By any chance did you send a copy of the .RR2Bot file for the affected robot(s)?


Wheels should not get Blur Cylinders or Spinner Mass Reducers.  If a wheel has them, the spinning wheel's behavior (driving a robot) will be replaced by spinning weapon behavior (launching things around on impact). 

The game's current definition of when to add the spinner mass reducer and blur cylinder is pretty convoluted.  A "Blur Cylinder" (a cylindrical weapon collider) and a "Spinner Mass Reducer" (a bit of logic that reduces the mass of a spinner so it doesn't go nuts at high RPM) are added to anything attached to a motor, unless any of the following are true.


I think I need to redefine "wheel" as anything that is attached to a motor assigned to "Left Drive" or "Right Drive".  I think this will be much more clear than the system I am using above.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 04, 2020, 07:29:38 AM

I didn't lose track of it though. :/
When I reworked it to add the beefed up axle, I even re-attached *everything* to the axle.

Also, on that note, it's impossible to break off the decorative parts of Panic Attack's srimech.
As in: when the main plate of the srimech breaks off, everything decorative stays attached.

Gotcha.  The problem is that an axle is not currently defined as its own component.  It doesn’t have health, at least not by itself.  It can’t be hit or take damage. Rather, it is part of a motor.  In order to break things off of the axle, they must have their own collider.  Since the collider is removed from anything marked as decorative, the decorative pieces attached directly to the axle won’t come off until the motor itself is destroyed.

Need to think about this...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 04, 2020, 08:59:56 AM

...the rubber material seems to not have any grip at all

...more evidence to my hunch.  I assume you are creating custom wheels...

By any chance did you send a copy of the .RR2Bot file for the affected robot(s)?


Wheels should not get Blur Cylinders or Spinner Mass Reducers.  If a wheel has them, the spinning wheel's behavior (driving a robot) will be replaced by spinning weapon behavior (launching things around on impact). 

The game's current definition of when to add the spinner mass reducer and blur cylinder is pretty convoluted.  A "Blur Cylinder" (a cylindrical weapon collider) and a "Spinner Mass Reducer" (a bit of logic that reduces the mass of a spinner so it doesn't go nuts at high RPM) are added to anything attached to a motor, unless any of the following are true.

  • if (comps.Length > 0 && comps[0].comp_type == CompType.Wheel) addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to wheels.
  • //if (comps.Length > 0 && comps[0].armorMaterial.name == "Rubber") addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to rubber things.
  • if (hinge.useLimits == true) addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to hinges with limits.
  • if (hinge.useSpring == true) addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to hinges with limits.
  • if ((int)hinge.limits.min != 0) addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to hinges with limits.
  • if ((int)hinge.limits.max != 0) addWeaponBlurCylinderAndSpinnerMassReducer = false; // Do not add to hinges with limits.

I think I need to redefine "wheel" as anything that is attached to a motor assigned to "Left Drive" or "Right Drive".  I think this will be much more clear than the system I am using above.
Ive done a multi piece wheel, placed a rim, then a hollow part that is rubber
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 04, 2020, 03:39:05 PM

...the rubber material seems to not have any grip at all

...more evidence to my hunch.  I assume you are creating custom wheels...

By any chance did you send a copy of the .RR2Bot file for the affected robot(s)?


Wheels should not get Blur Cylinders or Spinner Mass Reducers.  If a wheel has them, the spinning wheel's behavior (driving a robot) will be replaced by spinning weapon behavior (launching things around on impact). 

I think I need to redefine "wheel" as anything that is attached to a motor assigned to "Left Drive" or "Right Drive".  I think this will be much more clear than the system I am using above.
Ive done a multi piece wheel, placed a rim, then a hollow part that is rubber

Fixed.  Blur cylinders and spinner mass reducers are no longer added if the assembly is driven by a left or right drive motor.

I'll upload it soon. 

Now I need to take a crack at the issue CyarSkirata brought up: When you attach decorative materials directly to an axle, the materials don't have a collider and therefore can't be broken off.  Maybe if you attach decorative materials directly to an axle, they break off immediately as soon as you spawn the robot?  Would that be weird?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 04, 2020, 04:02:21 PM
Now I need to take a crack at the issue CyarSkirata brought up: When you attach decorative materials directly to an axle, the materials don't have a collider and therefore can't be broken off.  Maybe if you attach decorative materials directly to an axle, they break off immediately as soon as you spawn the robot?  Would that be weird?
I think that the component tree is not good. IIRC a main part of the wedge on my bot has fallen off, however smaller parts that were attached to it stay on. The materials weren't decorative on then
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 04, 2020, 05:41:02 PM

I didn't lose track of it though. :/
When I reworked it to add the beefed up axle, I even re-attached *everything* to the axle.

Also, on that note, it's impossible to break off the decorative parts of Panic Attack's srimech.
As in: when the main plate of the srimech breaks off, everything decorative stays attached.

Gotcha.  The problem is that an axle is not currently defined as its own component.  It doesn’t have health, at least not by itself.  It can’t be hit or take damage. Rather, it is part of a motor.  In order to break things off of the axle, they must have their own collider.  Since the collider is removed from anything marked as decorative, the decorative pieces attached directly to the axle won’t come off until the motor itself is destroyed.

Need to think about this...

Oh. When I said axle, that's not what I meant. I meant that I added a beefed up steel cylinder to the spinner, and made every other section of the weapon be child parts to that.

It's entirely possible for that cylinder - the parent part to the entire weapon - to come off from the teeth hitting opponents. On top of that, when that parent part does come off, it very rarely takes its child parts with it.

As for Panic Attack:
The srimech has three aluminium components attached to the main slab. Each of those parts has decorative parts attached to it.
When those break off, the decorative parts attached to them go with them. When the main slab breaks off, the decorative parts attached to it don't go with it. They remain attached to the gearbox.
The skirts also take their decorative parts with them when they break off.

Having talked about the issues with the two bots together, I do now have a theory. Perhaps the fault lies specifically in the components that are attached directly to the axle? Since that's the case both for the main plate of Panic Attack's srimech, and the cylinder in Circumvolution's weapon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 04, 2020, 06:20:33 PM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 04, 2020, 08:38:21 PM
Also I noticed that music for the main menu is COMPLETELY NONEXISTENT!!!! :vista:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 05, 2020, 02:04:13 AM
I have a question, will we have a slider inside the custom shape bar? It's really painful to click the arrow button to destroy my finger and the mouse
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 05:38:52 AM
Also I noticed that music for the main menu is COMPLETELY NONEXISTENT!!!! :vista:

Menu and music design is a slow process.  Expect things like this to slowly get sorted out as we get closer to beta.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 05:44:25 AM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 05:49:58 AM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Its basically the thing when the wheel falls off and the motor spins at full power and it causes the bot to lift on that side
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 05, 2020, 05:58:49 AM
Also I noticed that music for the main menu is COMPLETELY NONEXISTENT!!!! :vista:

Please note I am currently in the process of redesigning the UI so elements such as this will be sorted upon the new UI's release.


I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Its basically the thing when the wheel falls off and the motor spins at full power and it causes the bot to lift on that side

I noticed the same happens. When I was testing out some new Bug weight components it was even more noticeable once the wheels came off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 06:02:33 AM
I noticed the same happens. When I was testing out some new Bug weight components it was even more noticeable once the wheels came off.
A fix would be to turn off the motor once the wheel is off, aka there is nothing on the motor
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 06:16:27 AM


Oh. When I said axle, that's not what I meant. I meant that I added a beefed up steel cylinder to the spinner, and made every other section of the weapon be child parts to that.

It's entirely possible for that cylinder - the parent part to the entire weapon - to come off from the teeth hitting opponents. On top of that, when that parent part does come off, it very rarely takes its child parts with it.

As for Panic Attack:
The srimech has three aluminium components attached to the main slab. Each of those parts has decorative parts attached to it.
When those break off, the decorative parts attached to them go with them. When the main slab breaks off, the decorative parts attached to it don't go with it. They remain attached to the gearbox.
The skirts also take their decorative parts with them when they break off.

Having talked about the issues with the two bots together, I do now have a theory. Perhaps the fault lies specifically in the components that are attached directly to the axle? Since that's the case both for the main plate of Panic Attack's srimech, and the cylinder in Circumvolution's weapon.

Thank you for this excellent writeup!  I was able to reproduce the problem exactly as you described with Panic Attack in the editor.

The tree structure looks fine.  The fault lies with the breakage script.  When I break off the main slab (called "Cube"), the decorations are logically still linked to it, but the breakage script doesn't take them with to form the new broken game object.

The weird thing is that the breakage script works just fine for a simpler robot I built.  I put 6 cubes in a chain.  If I reduced the health of cube #3 to zero, cubes #3, 4, 5, and 6 all broke off together, exactly as they were supposed to.  It turns out that the problem lies with branched trees.  If more than one component is attached to something attached to a motor, none of the branches would break off.

I found the bug and should be able to push a fix today.

Cyar, thank you!  You are awesome!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 05, 2020, 06:34:15 AM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Its basically the thing when the wheel falls off and the motor spins at full power and it causes the bot to lift on that side
That’s pretty much what I was thinking it was. I recall recommending a fix for this glitch, but I need to find it.
EDIT: kix’s fix was the one I was thinking about.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 06:45:58 AM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Its basically the thing when the wheel falls off and the motor spins at full power and it causes the bot to lift on that side
That’s pretty much what I was thinking it was. I recall recommending a fix for this glitch, but I need to find it.
EDIT: kix’s fix was the one I was thinking about.

Gotcha!  I thought I disabled the motor anytime everything was broken off in a previous build.  I'll take a look at it again today.

So weird...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gauche Suede on February 05, 2020, 07:27:27 AM
Does this game's damage system support crushers? My friend who's a big fan of Razer really wants to play a game where crushers are viable
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 07:32:12 AM
Does this game's damage system support crushers? My friend who's a big fan of Razer really wants to play a game where crushers are viable

Not yet.  There are a few stubbed-in things for crusher mechanics, but no damage occurs with them.

They are on my to-do list.  I hope to get to them soon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 07:32:55 AM
Does this game's damage system support crushers? My friend who's a big fan of Razer really wants to play a game where crushers are viable
Nah this game uses the rigidbody system like ra2 has. However if a bot has a hole somwhere, there is a chance that you could grab it
I have a possible solution but however its more complicated to explain
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 09:03:59 AM
Does this game's damage system support crushers? My friend who's a big fan of Razer really wants to play a game where crushers are viable
Nah this game uses the rigidbody system like ra2 has. However if a bot has a hole somwhere, there is a chance that you could grab it
I have a possible solution but however its more complicated to explain

What did you have in mind?  I wasn't thinking along the lines of ripping off small parts, but I think I like where you are going with the idea.  It might be computationally expensive though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 10:09:04 AM
What did you have in mind?  I wasn't thinking along the lines of ripping off small parts, but I think I like where you are going with the idea.  It might be computationally expensive though.
For the hole i meant, if there was a hole in the design, like something that was built, there is a chance that a crusher could grab that.
As for the idea. Ok so few things would be needed:
1. A hydraulic ram that has high pressure but is slow.
2. A premade part, now how would it work. Maybe the tip has something on it like a script. How would it work? Lets take the round spike premade model, now it would have collision, however the tip would have a passthru script and if it detects a part that is from the opponent, the spike would sink in and act like a magnet, basically grabbing it untill a collision happens that breaks the opponent free.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 10:37:55 AM

I’ll call it the spazzing glitch.

Can you send me an .RR2Bot file?  COMs are showing up in the correct spot when I pop a wheel off my robots.
Any robots in my showcase will work. The only requirement is they have to be direct drive with prebuilt wheels.

Could you point me to one in particular that is frustrating?  The faster I can pinpoint the problem, the faster I can get the build out.
Its basically the thing when the wheel falls off and the motor spins at full power and it causes the bot to lift on that side
That’s pretty much what I was thinking it was. I recall recommending a fix for this glitch, but I need to find it.
EDIT: kix’s fix was the one I was thinking about.

Gotcha!  I thought I disabled the motor anytime everything was broken off in a previous build.  I'll take a look at it again today.

So weird...

I think I might have found a possible fix, but I can't tell if my fix is doing anything because I can't reliably reproduce the bug.

kix, does Mental Breakdown show the bug?

In which arena are you guys seeing the problem?  Does it occur in the Robot Workshop test cage?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 05, 2020, 10:46:28 AM
I've been having another go at getting my thwackbot to work, and I feel like part of the problem is a lack of traction with the arena floor.

It uses the stock 12.5 inch wheels, and in the workshop test area it thwacks so hard it bounces the wheels up off the ground, but out in the arena it needs a several metre run-up to turn over at all, and when it does do so it's too sluggish to have any real impact even if it did hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 10:53:31 AM
I've been having another go at getting my thwackbot to work, and I feel like part of the problem is a lack of traction with the arena floor.

It uses the stock 12.5 inch wheels, and in the workshop test area it thwacks so hard it bounces the wheels up off the ground, but out in the arena it needs a several metre run-up to turn over at all, and when it does do so it's too sluggish to have any real impact even if it did hit.

The Wheel Mass Ratio slider only affected the battle arena.  This means that wheel behavior is different between the Robot Workshop test cage and the battle arena.

I overlooked this fact in my zeal to remove the sliders.  Both the test cage and the battle arena should behave the same in the upcoming build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 11:28:38 AM
kix, does Mental Breakdown show the bug?

In which arena are you guys seeing the problem?  Does it occur in the Robot Workshop test cage?
I dont have mental breakdown, but removing a wheel shows that it doesnt do it in the test cage. Craplectric Jr. did do that but iirc it was on an older build
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 01:14:39 PM
Would someone mind posting their absolutely worst case robot showing the following problem:

1. A wheel breaks off.
2. The robot tilts unnaturally.

None of the robots I have built seem to have the problem.  I have tried to replicate the issue without success, but have a few changes I would like to try.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 05, 2020, 02:19:15 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the robot has to be driving when the wheel is taken off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on February 05, 2020, 02:25:13 PM
Just wanna say I really like the most recent version with the hollow shapes.
I figured I could finally make a ring spinner now, so instead I had the brilliant idea of putting the E-Tek big motor inside a drum as hub motor, creating this gyro-mad monster called Chaos Assembly 0.3
I've even attached the botfile for those who wanna try control this thing.


(https://i.postimg.cc/pLTqfZXz/Chaos-Assembly-0-3.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 02:27:18 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the robot has to be driving when the wheel is taken off.

Gotcha.  I think I might have a robot with the problem.  I tried setting the chassis mass to almost nothing and put a really powerful motor on.

I drove forward.  The robot went nuts.

Do you have another robot I could try with just to make sure?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 05, 2020, 02:38:59 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the robot has to be driving when the wheel is taken off.
Gotcha.  I think I might have a robot with the problem.  I tried setting the chassis mass to almost nothing and put a really powerful motor on.I drove forward.  The robot went nuts.Do you have another robot I could try with just to make sure?

No.



Would someone mind posting their absolutely worst case robot showing the following problem:

1. A wheel breaks off.
2. The robot tilts unnaturally.

None of the robots I have built seem to have the problem.  I have tried to replicate the issue without success, but have a few changes I would like to try.


I don't have a robot, but here's a video:

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
I fail to see any issues in that video, it was just sliding
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 03:34:48 PM
Thank you for sending the video.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to look at, but here's what I see:

0.00 - P1 starts off inverted, and is missing a wheel.
0.01 - P1 is hit by P2 and flips over so it is right side up.
0.03 - P1 is hit again and flips over.
0.04 - The camera is switched.
0.05 - P1 slowly crawls backward along the floor as its spinner repeatedly catches the ground.
0.06 - P1 hits the side hard with its spinner, jumping up into the air.
0.07 - P2 hits P1, launching it upward with its spinner.
0.08-0.10 - P1 floats weirdly forward.

Is this weird floating from 8 - 10 seconds what you were referring to?

You mentioned that you don't have a robot now, but you did before.  Does it appear that the problem you were seeing before has been mitigated somewhat?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 03:45:47 PM
05February2020 Alpha build is out.  I think it fixes every bug mentioned since the 03February build:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


[Added] Added display of the number of colliders in the robot to the top of the Robot Workshop screen. If the collider count > 50, then it displays red. This is to discourage lots of colliders. The collider count can be reduced by setting a shape to "Decorative". This will disable the collider for the shape, and it will break off with whatever it is attached to.

[Added] WheelRim and WheelTyre component types made, when you make the components, they should show up in the wheels section of the botlab, under Tyres and Rims.

[Changed] COMTrackers are now only added in Robot_Reconstruction.cs and Comp_In_Robot_Tree.cs if in the Unity Editor. They should no longer be added for the built game.

[Bug Fix] Blur Cylinders and Spinner Mass Reducers are no longer added to Hinge Joints if the motor that the joint is driven by has a Control_Motor_Left or Control_Motor_Right script attached. This should solve the problem when people make homemade wheels out of rubber cylinders.

[Bug Fix] Fixed preblem with some hotkeys being activated when editing input fields. Was mainly a problem when trying to move left and right in the inputfield text but ended up moving to different sections.

[Bug Fix] Fixed bug where if multiple things were attached to the first component on a hinge joint, they wouldn't all break off together.

[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2020, 04:14:43 PM
Just wanna say I really like the most recent version with the hollow shapes.
I figured I could finally make a ring spinner now, so instead I had the brilliant idea of putting the E-Tek big motor inside a drum as hub motor, creating this gyro-mad monster called Chaos Assembly 0.3
I've even attached the botfile for those who wanna try control this thing.


Ooo!  Fun to drive!

Nicely done!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 05, 2020, 04:36:38 PM
I'm so glad you all love the new hollow shapes! They were definitely something I wanted to bring in the moment I joined the team haha!

I've recently noticed aswell the Geo Cylinders automatically come up with a scaling of 11.545/10/11.545. I'll get this fixed soon.

With that said, we're all working hard to develop the game further to a finished product. I was asked to redo all of the current components in the game.

Here are the new meshes for:

AmpFlow A30-400

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

AmpFlow F40-300

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

And a new 33mm Brushless Motor

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Cjbruce wanted the new motors to connect to the chassis panels with the axle poking outwards (like it naturally would if you was to fix it on).
He also requested we remove the AmpFlow's back axle's attachment point, as in reality, you wouldn't use these. So please note once these new meshes are brought into the game there will be a change over period for you all to change the motors in your robots to these new ones before we remove the old ones. The same will apply for all new and re-done components, but all time frames for change over ect. will be brought to your attention with plenty of notice :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 04:50:49 PM
pls tell me that that brushless is made for hw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 05, 2020, 04:58:11 PM
pls tell me that that brushless is made for hw

Currently for bug weights. lighter and heavier weight brushless motors to come :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 05, 2020, 05:00:44 PM
pls tell me that that brushless is made for hw

Currently for bug weights. lighter and heavier weight brushless motors to come :)
awww, well its still a thing. Guess ill have to wait
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 06, 2020, 02:20:32 PM
Some new components also coming:

An updated Motenergy ME0708

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Pancake E-Tek Motor

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Heavy Duty Brushless

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Also - in regards to my previous message about a change over period - the current AmpFlows will be changed to the new ones. This won't cause a serious error to your robots, however you will need to edit your robots to accomodate the new changes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 06, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
How do the rims and tires work?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on February 06, 2020, 02:35:33 PM
BRUSHLESS BABY
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 06, 2020, 02:48:12 PM
How do the rims and tires work?

They're something new I'm working on. So for now just please watch this space :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 06, 2020, 03:15:34 PM
BRUSHLESS HYPE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 06, 2020, 05:01:19 PM
BRUSHLESS BABY

Still need to figure out the game mechanics for brushless motors!

I’m thinking:

1. They need more gear reduction.
2. They have very poor starting torque.  I just got some numbers on this versus AmpFlow, so we should be set on this.
3. They tend to break more easily (lower health).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 06, 2020, 05:21:47 PM
BRUSHLESS BABY

Still need to figure out the game mechanics for brushless motors!

I’m thinking:

1. They need more gear reduction.
2. They have very poor starting torque.  I just got some numbers on this versus AmpFlow, so we should be set on this.
3. They tend to break more easily (lower health).
Fact: Magnetar from RW used brushless motors for drive and weapon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on February 06, 2020, 05:24:41 PM
BRUSHLESS BABY

Still need to figure out the game mechanics for brushless motors!

I’m thinking:

1. They need more gear reduction.
2. They have very poor starting torque.  I just got some numbers on this versus AmpFlow, so we should be set on this.
3. They tend to break more easily (lower health).
Fact: Magnetar from RW used brushless motors for drive and weapon

**** off Kix
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 06, 2020, 05:29:24 PM
BRUSHLESS BABY

Still need to figure out the game mechanics for brushless motors!

I’m thinking:

1. They need more gear reduction.
2. They have very poor starting torque.  I just got some numbers on this versus AmpFlow, so we should be set on this.
3. They tend to break more easily (lower health).
Fact: Magnetar from RW used brushless motors for drive and weapon

**** off Kix
Im here fighting for the brushless **** off
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 06, 2020, 06:09:23 PM
I'm just wondering about why brushless motors would be deemed to break more easily.  For an example, some diesel locomotives use brushless traction motors with one of the benefits being that you don't have to maintain the brushes, so I thought they'd actually be tougher by getting rid of a weakpoint in the works.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 06, 2020, 07:01:59 PM
There isn’t that much data on heavyweight brushless motors in comparison to brushed motors.

Loads in a diesel engine are about as different from robot combat as you can get.  I used to work on diesel and other powerplant and propulsion systems.  We had absolutely massive motors and generators.  The systems were designed to operate over decades of use.  Robot combat motors have to last for a few hundred seconds.  They are much smaller are must be able to handle crazy accelerations.

Most heavyweights use brushed motors.  There are reasons for that.  I want to be very careful to not make brushless motors “godlike” and so clearly better that there is no reason to ever use a brushed motor in your design.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 06, 2020, 07:33:17 PM
Having said all that, I don’t have any personal experience with brushless motors in robot combat.  I’m just guessing, and am really hoping to get a data dump from someone who has actually tried them in the larger weight classes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 06, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
Panic Attack's issues with having too much traction are fixed, and so is the srimech torque. The version with the slow un-wheelfixed weapons still struggles to steer, but the fast version is back in business. :)

Sadly, no improvement in having the thwackbot be able to thwack in the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 06, 2020, 09:05:08 PM
Would someone mind posting their absolutely worst case robot showing the following problem:

1. A wheel breaks off.
2. The robot tilts unnaturally.

None of the robots I have built seem to have the problem.  I have tried to replicate the issue without success, but have a few changes I would like to try.

My clusterbot has developed this bug sometime since the last time I tested it.
The wheels are pretty exposed, so I suggest putting one of them in the arena under AI control and using Circumvolution (reach, side-wedges and good bite for getting at the sides) to pull the wheels off while it tries to fight back, to test the bug under combat conditions, where the target bot is moving pretty much all the time.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 07, 2020, 03:43:08 AM
Having said all that, I don’t have any personal experience with brushless motors in robot combat.  I’m just guessing, and am really hoping to get a data dump from someone who has actually tried them in the larger weight classes.

I may have a contact..... Watch this space.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 07, 2020, 06:51:15 AM
I'm just wondering about why brushless motors would be deemed to break more easily.

Because they do... at least, currently. As kix said, Pulsar/Magnetar exclusively used brushless components, and it was one of the most unreliable combat robots I've ever seen. It was an incredible piece of engineering, and very powerful when it worked, but being cutting-edge has its drawbacks.

If I have some spare time at the weekend, in between PWS fights, I gotta try out the latest build. Hollow cylinders in particular are a godsend, and something I've been wanting for months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 07, 2020, 07:05:55 AM
They could implement the overheating function, if its overused it breaks because of high temperatures
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on February 07, 2020, 07:35:31 AM
I'm just wondering about why brushless motors would be deemed to break more easily.

Because they do... at least, currently. As kix said, Pulsar/Magnetar exclusively used brushless components, and it was one of the most unreliable combat robots I've ever seen. It was an incredible piece of engineering, and very powerful when it worked, but being cutting-edge has its drawbacks.
And if they didn't, why would you ever use the other motors the game has to offer. Brushless motors are smaller, lighter, more convenient, and pretty much as powerful as you'll ever need. Without some balancing factor there you might as well remove the other motors from the game because they'll never get used if brushlesses don't have a drawback
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KupaTec on February 07, 2020, 07:42:51 AM
 Quick update on the progress of the AMT as I keep forgetting to keep you guys updated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chZ_uPGRyTc

We have the beginnings of Active Hazard support in the ways of "Button" (Pit Release) and "Trigger" (Flipper) style hazards. These use the inbuilt Unity Animation Controller Component which opens up a lot of possibilities for the user without having to resort to complex coding. Multiple animations can be triggered (As seen with the Pit Release also modifying the lighting) at the same time and I'll also be adding in support to play sounds when triggered (so you can have an alarm when the pit is released or a violent thud with your hammer). As you can also see from the video the Countdown Timer is now working as expected.

The final step to bring the new arena system up to the same level as the old system is to get the FreeCam working and then it's just a bit of polishing work.

EDIT: I apparently don't know how to use the attachment system so have a YouTube vid instead
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 07, 2020, 07:44:58 AM
I like what im seeing, arena hype i guess
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 07, 2020, 09:45:54 AM
Would someone mind posting their absolutely worst case robot showing the following problem:

1. A wheel breaks off.
2. The robot tilts unnaturally.

None of the robots I have built seem to have the problem.  I have tried to replicate the issue without success, but have a few changes I would like to try.

My clusterbot has developed this bug sometime since the last time I tested it.
The wheels are pretty exposed, so I suggest putting one of them in the arena under AI control and using Circumvolution (reach, side-wedges and good bite for getting at the sides) to pull the wheels off while it tries to fight back, to test the bug under combat conditions, where the target bot is moving pretty much all the time.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

I'm not seeing anything too weird here.  The COMs are in the correct location when the wheels break off and the rigidbody masses are set to 0.00001 kg like they are supposed to be.  Is it possible that the behavior that you are seeing is actually the correct result of the angular momentum of the big, fast vertical spinner?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on February 07, 2020, 04:20:37 PM
Just wanna say I really like the most recent version with the hollow shapes.
I figured I could finally make a ring spinner now, so instead I had the brilliant idea of putting the E-Tek big motor inside a drum as hub motor, creating this gyro-mad monster called Chaos Assembly 0.3
I've even attached the botfile for those who wanna try control this thing.


Ooo!  Fun to drive!

Nicely done!
Fun to drive he says. Lol! Glad to see it being enjoyed.

Now I can't wait for more different motors to make stuff with that probably shouldn't exist.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 07, 2020, 05:13:03 PM
I'm not seeing anything too weird here.  The COMs are in the correct location when the wheels break off and the rigidbody masses are set to 0.00001 kg like they are supposed to be.  Is it possible that the behavior that you are seeing is actually the correct result of the angular momentum of the big, fast vertical spinner?

The issue isn't with getting gyro. It's with getting something that resembles gyro, but the robot will - for example - end up with one side completely hovering while it drives back and forth in a straight line, or take a vert hit and be sent spinning through the air but only be capable of spinning on the axis of the axle that's lost its wheel.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 07, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
I'm not seeing anything too weird here.  The COMs are in the correct location when the wheels break off and the rigidbody masses are set to 0.00001 kg like they are supposed to be.  Is it possible that the behavior that you are seeing is actually the correct result of the angular momentum of the big, fast vertical spinner?

The issue isn't with getting gyro. It's with getting something that resembles gyro, but the robot will - for example - end up with one side completely hovering while it drives back and forth in a straight line, or take a vert hit and be sent spinning through the air but only be capable of spinning on the axis of the axle that's lost its wheel.
Yeah this issue has been happening for quite a while now. This video might be able to show you more:
https://youtu.be/qZxGEP5GIfk (https://youtu.be/qZxGEP5GIfk)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 07, 2020, 06:46:57 PM
I think I learned a little something about brushless motors.  I didn't realize that they weighed less compared to brushed motors.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 07, 2020, 07:00:42 PM
This looks like a center of mass issue.  I need to track this down.

Is it possible that there is a part that is broken off and stuck inside the robot?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 07, 2020, 07:02:45 PM
I think I learned a little something about brushless motors.  I didn't realize that they weighed less compared to brushed motors.

They do.  No brushes or commutator, plus the extra length of shaft.

Robert Cowan has a nice comparison in his beetleweight drive tutorial video.  The brushless motors are about 30% less mass, and quite a bit shorter.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 07, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
This looks like a center of mass issue.  I need to track this down.

Is it possible that there is a part that is broken off and stuck inside the robot?
I’m 100% sure there isn’t anything stuck inside. The so called “gyro” only happens when one of the wheels come off of a drive motor. The bot I used in the video only gyros a little bit when both wheels are intact. This “invisible gyro” issue happens with every single bot I have, both my own and all tournament entries. Maybe if a motor is controlled with the drive function, you could set it up to not include gyro in its physics?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 07, 2020, 08:22:05 PM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 08, 2020, 12:40:16 AM
uh...
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
there seems to be a glitch with the A28-150 gearbox
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 08, 2020, 03:50:20 AM
How do the rims and tires work?

They're something new I'm working on. So for now just please watch this space :)

Introducing:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

THE WHEEL BUILDER

Comprised of 10 hubs and 15 tires, the wheel builder allows you to make any sort of wheel you may want for your robot!

-All rims can have a material and tint set to them.
-All tires are recolourable. Whether you want Sewer Snake's reds or Carbide's yellows - now you can have whatever you want!
-All parts are fully scaleable, with the attachment points balanced to ensure pure '0' every time.
-Once myself or the team have gotten round to stat balancing, every combination of hub and tire will bring it's own pros and cons to allow for true competitive gameplay.

Release of the Wheel Builder is subject to establishing of stats, but they are at least in development! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 08, 2020, 06:01:13 AM
Is it just me, or are the video settings in the 05 February build totally broken? The game defaults to 1024x800 with medium graphics, and reverts back to that no matter what you set it to. It also opens in fullscreen even when fullscreen isn't ticked.

Typical, I can finally play the game in decent quality and it's forcing me to play in potato quality again 😂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 08, 2020, 07:19:51 AM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.

I agree.  This should already be true as of the 05February bulls:


[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 08, 2020, 07:24:03 AM
Is it just me, or are the video settings in the 05 February build totally broken? The game defaults to 1024x800 with medium graphics, and reverts back to that no matter what you set it to. It also opens in fullscreen even when fullscreen isn't ticked.

Typical, I can finally play the game in decent quality and it's forcing me to play in potato quality again 😂

Try setting them in the combat arena.  I believe that is the only place where settings will stick.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 08, 2020, 08:43:23 AM
Is it just me, or are the video settings in the 05 February build totally broken? The game defaults to 1024x800 with medium graphics, and reverts back to that no matter what you set it to. It also opens in fullscreen even when fullscreen isn't ticked.

Typical, I can finally play the game in decent quality and it's forcing me to play in potato quality again 😂

Try setting them in the combat arena.  I believe that is the only place where settings will stick.
Nope that doenst work, i use the kupatec modtool and 1080p fix
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 08, 2020, 09:08:57 AM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.

I agree.  This should already be true as of the 05February bulls:


[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
With this fix the motors slow down gradually, but the robots still havok around for 3-4 seconds. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 08, 2020, 09:12:27 AM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.

I agree.  This should already be true as of the 05February bulls:


[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
With this fix the motors slow down gradually, but the robots still havok around for 3-4 seconds.

Roger.  Power is off, but more needs to be done to get the speed down.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 08, 2020, 09:30:04 AM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.

I agree.  This should already be true as of the 05February bulls:


[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
With this fix the motors slow down gradually, but the robots still havok around for 3-4 seconds.

Roger.  Power is off, but more needs to be done to get the speed down.
Could you send me the project file as a .rar?
EDIT: I want to look at the code for motors so I can see if there's a value that can be changed to make the motors stop immediately.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 08, 2020, 10:34:31 AM
I think a fix would be to have motors without anything attached to them immediately stop spinning.

I agree.  This should already be true as of the 05February bulls:


[Bug Fix] Set mass of remaining axles to 0.00001f if all attachments break off a motor.

[Bug Fix] Set Motor_Script.maxrpm to zero if all attachments break off. Previously this was only true for spinners, but now it is true for wheels as well.
With this fix the motors slow down gradually, but the robots still havok around for 3-4 seconds.

Roger.  Power is off, but more needs to be done to get the speed down.
Could you send me the project file as a .rar?
EDIT: I want to look at the code for motors so I can see if there's a value that can be changed to make the motors stop immediately.

Unfortunately, no.  This is a commercial project.  The code is not open source.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 08, 2020, 11:21:24 AM
How do the rims and tires work?

They're something new I'm working on. So for now just please watch this space :)

Introducing:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

THE WHEEL BUILDER

Comprised of 10 hubs and 15 tires, the wheel builder allows you to make any sort of wheel you may want for your robot!

-All rims can have a material and tint set to them.
-All tires are recolourable. Whether you want Sewer Snake's reds or Carbide's yellows - now you can have whatever you want!
-All parts are fully scaleable, with the attachment points balanced to ensure pure '0' every time.
-Once myself or the team have gotten round to stat balancing, every combination of hub and tire will bring it's own pros and cons to allow for true competitive gameplay.

Release of the Wheel Builder is subject to establishing of stats, but they are at least in development! :)

Hell yeah!!! Love the development! Slam bam thank you Wham!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 10, 2020, 09:25:57 AM
uh...
there seems to be a glitch with the A28-150 gearbox

Wow.  Nice catch!  I'm taking a look at it now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 10, 2020, 04:58:30 PM
Quick question: will we be getting more shapes like quarter cylinders/spheres, letters, and square side wedges in the near future?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 10, 2020, 05:08:28 PM
Quick question: will we be getting more shapes like quarter cylinders/spheres, letters, and square side wedges in the near future?

I can certainly do more shapes but I'd prefer to wait until I've finished the new UI so that there is more organisation for handling more components.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 10, 2020, 08:33:39 PM
uh...
there seems to be a glitch with the A28-150 gearbox

Wow.  Nice catch!  I'm taking a look at it now.

Fixed the A28-150 gearbox for the upcoming build!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 12, 2020, 10:01:37 AM
Ok so i did some testing around with the bots that have 600+ colliders, thanks rep makers, appreciate that.


One thing im having a feeling about is that the game may be only limiting itself to max 4 cores/ 4 threads. Im not sure on this one, maybe thats why my cpu usage cant reach 100% (6c/12t), again, im not exactly sure on this one.


And uh ok so resolution settings do nothing, nothing at all, no fps gain/decrease.
https://youtu.be/5w_bHSP4LqQ (https://youtu.be/5w_bHSP4LqQ)
Even did windowed mode of the game and scaled down the window down to this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675006573772537874/677179764519206935/unknown.png)
even changed the res to 4k as in the yt vid


Then i tried gfx quality settings.
Mid/ High are the same, low however
https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968 (https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968)

It might be shadows or post processing that is making stuff lag.


Also what ive noticed, when the bots are upside down, and if you drive the motors at full speed, on 100 tick, the premade wheels wheels spaz out.
EDIT: Premade wheels do that too:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 12, 2020, 03:15:54 PM
Motors don't stop if they are attached to a gearbox, belt, or chain. :/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 13, 2020, 11:40:06 AM
Ok so i did some testing around with the bots that have 600+ colliders, thanks rep makers, appreciate that.


One thing im having a feeling about is that the game may be only limiting itself to max 4 cores/ 4 threads. Im not sure on this one, maybe thats why my cpu usage cant reach 100% (6c/12t), again, im not exactly sure on this one.


And uh ok so resolution settings do nothing, nothing at all, no fps gain/decrease.
https://youtu.be/5w_bHSP4LqQ (https://youtu.be/5w_bHSP4LqQ)
Even did windowed mode of the game and scaled down the window down to this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/675006573772537874/677179764519206935/unknown.png)
even changed the res to 4k as in the yt vid


Then i tried gfx quality settings.
Mid/ High are the same, low however
https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968 (https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968)

It might be shadows or post processing that is making stuff lag.


Also what ive noticed, when the bots are upside down, and if you drive the motors at full speed, on 100 tick, the premade wheels wheels spaz out.
EDIT: Premade wheels do that too:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
How's your CPU/GPU utilisation while playing? No change in FPS from 768p to 4k is a good pointer to it being a huge CPU bottleneck, possibly due to your CPU not being able to keep up with the physics engine? Try lowering the physics engine tickrate, if that's an option in the game. If neither your GPU or CPU are pinned at 100% utilisation, I'd take a wild uneducated guess at there being a weird bottleneck somewhere in the rending pipeline.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 13, 2020, 12:03:16 PM
How's your CPU/GPU utilisation while playing? No change in FPS from 768p to 4k is a good pointer to it being a huge CPU bottleneck, possibly due to your CPU not being able to keep up with the physics engine? Try lowering the physics engine tickrate, if that's an option in the game. If neither your GPU or CPU are pinned at 100% utilisation, I'd take a wild uneducated guess at there being a weird bottleneck somewhere in the rending pipeline.
The game has tickreate
however 100tick is not desirable due to wonky driving, aka bots bounce while driving.
My cpu/gpu never reach 50% in the game at all, no matter what tick
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 13, 2020, 12:24:45 PM
I think I might have come up with a potential solution for the motor gyro phenomena. Won’t be able to test it until tonight, so I’ll let you guys know then.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 13, 2020, 06:47:52 PM
Also, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is a basic visual:
https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ (https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ)

My idea didn't work, so cjbruce please fix this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 14, 2020, 06:39:49 AM
Sorry for being incommunicado.  I’ve been out with the flu for the past few days.

CodeSilver, thank you for the video.  It is super clear and easy to reproduce.   When I get my strength back I will have a look.

kix, by any chance are you using KupaTech’s screen resolution hack?  The way I understand it, the hack sets the resolution of the screen one frame after the screen loads.  This means you will never see any resolution other than the one hard-coded by the hack.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 14, 2020, 07:07:05 AM
kix, by any chance are you using KupaTech’s screen resolution hack?  The way I understand it, the hack sets the resolution of the screen one frame after the screen loads.  This means you will never see any resolution other than the one hard-coded by the hack.
Uh i do, however you can turn it off which is convenient. I turned it off when i did the testing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 14, 2020, 04:37:39 PM
Sorry for being incommunicado.  I’ve been out with the flu for the past few days.

CodeSilver, thank you for the video.  It is super clear and easy to reproduce.   When I get my strength back I will have a look.

kix, by any chance are you using KupaTech’s screen resolution hack?  The way I understand it, the hack sets the resolution of the screen one frame after the screen loads.  This means you will never see any resolution other than the one hard-coded by the hack.
Can you post the code for this hack?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 14, 2020, 04:59:19 PM
Also, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is a basic visual:
https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ (https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ)

My idea didn't work, so cjbruce please fix this.

CodeSilver23, you are a genius.  With the help of the video I was able to find an eliminate the problem.  The errant gyroscopic effect that you have shown should be gone in the next build.

For the physics geeks out there:

Unity has really lousy physics documentation.  I had assumed that when you change the mass of an attached rigidbody, the moments of inertia would be recomputed as well.  In our case, I was setting the mass of the rigidbody to a very small number (0.000001 kg) when all of the components break off an axle.  I had assumed (incorrectly) that this would cause the moments of inertia (which directly affect angular momentum and gyroscopic effects) to be nearly zero as well.

I was wrong.  CodeSilver23 was spot on in his video.  What he was seeing could only be gyroscopic effects.  I turned on a display of moment of inertia and sure enough, the MOI was set to 1 kg * m^2 in all dimensions.  This is an insanely huge moment of inertia for a wheel.  Apparently, Unity decided that since it could no longer compute an MOI because there was nothing attached, instead of setting the MOI to 0 it set MOI to 1.  This is crazy.  It also explains the ridiculousness that happens when you break everything off.

In any case, it should be fixed now.  I tried to go back and find and fix all of the weird quirks that I introduced when I didn't know the root cause of the problem.  Hopefully I got everything, but please let me know if you find more stuff cropping up in the next build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 14, 2020, 05:09:46 PM
Also, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is a basic visual:
https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ (https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ)

My idea didn't work, so cjbruce please fix this.

CodeSilver23, you are a genius.  With the help of the video I was able to find an eliminate the problem.  The errant gyroscopic effect that you have shown should be gone in the next build.

For the physics geeks out there:

Unity has really lousy physics documentation.  I had assumed that when you change the mass of an attached rigidbody, the moments of inertia would be recomputed as well.  In our case, I was setting the mass of the rigidbody to a very small number (0.000001 kg) when all of the components break off an axle.  I had assumed (incorrectly) that this would cause the moments of inertia (which directly affect angular momentum and gyroscopic effects) to be nearly zero as well.

I was wrong.  CodeSilver23 was spot on in his video.  What he was seeing could only be gyroscopic effects.  I turned on a display of moment of inertia and sure enough, the MOI was set to 1 kg * m^2 in all dimensions.  This is an insanely huge moment of inertia for a wheel.  Apparently, Unity decided that since it could no longer compute an MOI because there was nothing attached, instead of setting the MOI to 0 it set MOI to 1.  This is crazy.  It also explains the ridiculousness that happens when you break everything off.

In any case, it should be fixed now.  I tried to go back and find and fix all of the weird quirks that I introduced when I didn't know the root cause of the problem.  Hopefully I got everything, but please let me know if you find more stuff cropping up in the next build.

Thats why we are here, to test stuff and troubleshoot them.

Now how about the wheels jiggling when they are not touching the ground at 100tick?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 14, 2020, 05:23:21 PM
Ok so i did some testing around with the bots that have 600+ colliders, thanks rep makers, appreciate that.


One thing im having a feeling about is that the game may be only limiting itself to max 4 cores/ 4 threads. Im not sure on this one, maybe thats why my cpu usage cant reach 100% (6c/12t), again, im not exactly sure on this one.

To be honest, I'm not a skilled enough programmer to figure out how to split the biggest CPU loads over more than a single core.  Physics is the biggest load right now, and it is notoriously difficult and/or impossible to split it over multiple CPUs.

And uh ok so resolution settings do nothing, nothing at all, no fps gain/decrease.

Even did windowed mode of the game and scaled down the window down to this

even changed the res to 4k as in the yt vid

Would it be possible for you to run the plain-vanilla version of the game without the KupaTec hack?  On my end the screen resolution settings work.  The resizing/scaling is wonky, but KupaTec is actually planning to do a rewrite of this for the near future.

On my end, the more I boost up the resolution, the more the frame rate drops.  Graphics quality doesn't have nearly as big of an effect as screen resolution, indicating my poor laptop GPUs are definitely fill rate limited.



Then i tried gfx quality settings.
Mid/ High are the same, low however
https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968 (https://youtu.be/T2eusgmW968)

It might be shadows or post processing that is making stuff lag.


Its hard to say.  It is surprising that your computer has issues with graphics settings on low.  What kind of a graphics card do you have?


Also what ive noticed, when the bots are upside down, and if you drive the motors at full speed, on 100 tick, the premade wheels wheels spaz out.
EDIT: Premade wheels do that too:

Let me look into this.  I suspect the crazy high RPMs are throwing off the wheels.  It might not be easily fixable.  Let me think about it a little bit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 14, 2020, 05:51:47 PM
Ok so:
A. I could try and yeah it would change the fps. However even in vanilla version pre kupatec thing would not really change the fps. The difference is only around 100fps. (And the game is doing 200+fps on highest settings)

B. The game does not have issues on low. You see its opposite. Fps gets better, however what i noticed on low is that the shadows are off, and maybe each part has its own shadows to calculate which kills the fps on high part count bots. My gpu is a 8gb Sapphire RX580

C. Weird thing is that light parts on a spinner that are approx the same weight dont do this thing at all
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 08:51:16 AM
I'm going to try to get out a build while I have a clear head.  This one has several things that change the game in major ways:

1. The chassis plates can now be broken off.  This means that every component that you add to the robot can become exposed.  This means that "Robot Health" effectively becomes a meaningless idea.  You can continue bashing pieces off a robot until there is nothing left to bash.  I'm strongly leaning toward eliminating the health bars at the top of the screen, as they don't have any meaning anymore.

The "Robot" itself is effectively the bottom plate of the chassis.  It can't be broken off from itself.  The camera tracks it.  The "P1" icon hovers above it.  All other pieces are attached to it via a tree structure.  One question is lingering in my mind: should the bottom chassis plate be invulnerable?  If not, what should the consequences be for hitting it?  On a good hit should we roll a die and randomly destroy something attached to it?


2. The first of the new arenas built with KupaTec's new "Arena Modding Tool" (AMT) is going to be included in this build.  It is a shameless duplicate of the school arena that my students will be competing at on February 28-29.  It is a smaller box, suitable for lightweights.  It has polycarbonate walls, 8" steel angle iron guard rails, and an arena spinner hazard.

The Arena Modding Tool makes it possible for you guys to create and share your own arenas.  KupaTec and WhamettNuht are the geniuses behind the tool and the new arenas.  Expect more arenas soon!


3. We are in the process of removing old arenas, robots, menu systems, UI, and other stuff that has developed and mutated over the years.  Over the next few months, expect to see a lot of stuff disappear and be replaced by newer, shinier versions.  And you know what that means? New bugs!!! 

All kidding aside, we are consolidating things down so that there is only one menu system (instead of one for every screen), one set of rules for robot behavior (instead of one for each robot), one set of rules for arena construction (instead of one for each arena), etc.  It should significantly reduce the amount of bugs that need to be squashed.


With this build you are seeing the start of the transition of the game from its current Alpha state into a future Beta state.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 08:52:59 AM
Also, for those who don't know what I'm talking about, here is a basic visual:
https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ (https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ)

My idea didn't work, so cjbruce please fix this.

CodeSilver23, you are a genius.  With the help of the video I was able to find an eliminate the problem.  The errant gyroscopic effect that you have shown should be gone in the next build.

For the physics geeks out there:

Unity has really lousy physics documentation.  I had assumed that when you change the mass of an attached rigidbody, the moments of inertia would be recomputed as well.  In our case, I was setting the mass of the rigidbody to a very small number (0.000001 kg) when all of the components break off an axle.  I had assumed (incorrectly) that this would cause the moments of inertia (which directly affect angular momentum and gyroscopic effects) to be nearly zero as well.

I was wrong.  CodeSilver23 was spot on in his video.  What he was seeing could only be gyroscopic effects.  I turned on a display of moment of inertia and sure enough, the MOI was set to 1 kg * m^2 in all dimensions.  This is an insanely huge moment of inertia for a wheel.  Apparently, Unity decided that since it could no longer compute an MOI because there was nothing attached, instead of setting the MOI to 0 it set MOI to 1.  This is crazy.  It also explains the ridiculousness that happens when you break everything off.

In any case, it should be fixed now.  I tried to go back and find and fix all of the weird quirks that I introduced when I didn't know the root cause of the problem.  Hopefully I got everything, but please let me know if you find more stuff cropping up in the next build.
I'm going to try to get out a build while I have a clear head.  This one has several things that change the game in major ways:

1. The chassis plates can now be broken off.  This means that every component that you add to the robot can become exposed.  This means that "Robot Health" effectively becomes a meaningless idea.  You can continue bashing pieces off a robot until there is nothing left to bash.  I'm strongly leaning toward eliminating the health bars at the top of the screen, as they don't have any meaning anymore.

The "Robot" itself is effectively the bottom plate of the chassis.  It can't be broken off from itself.  The camera tracks it.  The "P1" icon hovers above it.  All other pieces are attached to it via a tree structure.  One question is lingering in my mind: should the bottom chassis plate be invulnerable?  If not, what should the consequences be for hitting it?  On a good hit should we roll a die and randomly destroy something attached to it?


2. The first of the new arenas built with KupaTec's new "Arena Modding Tool" (AMT) is going to be included in this build.  It is a shameless duplicate of the school arena that my students will be competing at on February 28-29.  It is a smaller box, suitable for lightweights.  It has polycarbonate walls, 8" steel angle iron guard rails, and an arena spinner hazard.

The Arena Modding Tool makes it possible for you guys to create and share your own arenas.  KupaTec and WhamettNuht are the geniuses behind the tool and the new arenas.  Expect more arenas soon!


3. We are in the process of removing old arenas, robots, menu systems, UI, and other stuff that has developed and mutated over the years.  Over the next few months, expect to see a lot of stuff disappear and be replaced by newer, shinier versions.  And you know what that means? New bugs!!! 

All kidding aside, we are consolidating things down so that there is only one menu system (instead of one for every screen), one set of rules for robot behavior (instead of one for each robot), one set of rules for arena construction (instead of one for each arena), etc.  It should significantly reduce the amount of bugs that need to be squashed.


With this build you are seeing the start of the transition of the game from its current Alpha state into a future Beta state.
When's this build coming out?
EDIT: I'm gonna guess soon?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 09:09:29 AM
The 15February2020 Alpha Build is out!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


It comes with a pretty big list of changes.  Thank you to everyone on the team and to everyone on GTM who contributed so much in the past few weeks! :claping

[Updates in the February 15th Build]​

[Added] Chassis armor Shape_Plates now pop off when their associated DamageableObject have health < 0.  This means that it is now possible to break off the protective armor plates of the chassis, exposing the motors on the inside.​

[Added] ARENA MODDING TOOL: Arenas created with the Arena Modding Tool are now playable.

[Added] WHEEL BUILDER: This is a new tool available in the Robot Workshop that allows you to create custom wheels.  Try it and see what you think!

[Added] New Robot Workshop Hotkeys:

Added hotkeys for the Electronics - Extras sections, including using wasdqe to use the move/rotate/scale components. When adding components, wasdqe can be used to rotate the component before attaching it to the robot.​

[Added]  33mm Brushless Motor

[Added] New mesh for the AmpFlow A30-400

[Added] New mesh for the AmpFlow F40-300

[Added] New Motenergy motor

[Added] New Heavy Brushless motor

[Added] New Pancake E-Tek motor​

[Added] LET THERE BE LIGHT! Some LED's for the Extras. The lights are baked to reduce strain on the CPU, but despite this they still look really good!

[Added] New Component: Ball Caster. Should eliminate a lot of driving and mobility issues.​​

[Changed] Changed the direction of the NPC and A28 motors 

[Changed] Updated materials for 33mm Brushless​ Motor

[Changed] Tweaked position of AmpFlow A28-150 gearbox so that it sits flush with the motor.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed bug where Blur Cylinders were erroneously added to custom-made wheels attached to drive motors. This was caused because Robot_Reconstruction only checked to see if the previous component had a Control_Motor_ script attached. It now checks recursively up the "previous component" heirarchy to see if any of the parents have the script.

[Bug Fix] Set the hinged rigidbody's angular velocity to zero immediately when all of the attached components break off and only the axle is left.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem with the Ampflow A28-150 gearbox axle moving out of it's position.

[Bug Fix]Found and fixed the root cause of a series of gyroscopic effect bugs clearly outlined by CodeSilver23 on GTM:

https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ (https://youtu.be/DzgswRreqHQ)

The root cause is that when a rigidbody doesn't contain any colliders, its inertia tensor is set to (1,1,1). This is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE set of moments of inertia. When the rigidbody gets up to several thousand RPM, the gyroscopic effects become overwhelming. The fix was to set the MOIs to 0.00001.​
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on February 15, 2020, 10:14:44 AM
So I see we've reset the sizes of the components added by the previous updates lol

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 10:19:38 AM
I LOVE the new look of Kat 3!   :laughing

I have no idea what caused that, but would be happy to take a look.  Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot for it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
The thing is if you are going to fix it, i do not want to resize stuff then
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 11:13:15 AM
The thing is if you are going to fix it, i do not want to resize stuff then

What sort of things are getting messed up?  Can you see a pattern to it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 11:17:46 AM
Can you rotate the meshes for the ampflow a40-300 and f30-400 180 degrees?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 11:22:53 AM
The thing is if you are going to fix it, i do not want to resize stuff then

What sort of things are getting messed up?  Can you see a pattern to it?

From what ive seen atm, the tri cylinders, hex cylinders  and octo cylinders are all badly sized.

One nitpick is that the new motors dont have the proper attachment points. Now all of them are attachable on the axle which is weird by itself, but new modes of the same motors have their axle points on the side. Ill prolly provide a video
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on February 15, 2020, 11:25:22 AM
The thing is if you are going to fix it, i do not want to resize stuff then

What sort of things are getting messed up?  Can you see a pattern to it?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong. It seems to be the 3 non-hollow components added in the previous update; Hexagon/Triangle/The Other One. They all had bizarre base sizes (around 11.0 X/Y/Z) if these have been reset to the same as the rest (1.0) then that would explain why it’s stretched the components out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 11:40:17 AM
One nitpick is that the new motors dont have the proper attachment points. Now all of them are attachable on the axle which is weird by itself, but new modes of the same motors have their axle points on the side. Ill prolly provide a video
I’ve had the same problem. All of my bots are broken. :/
EDIT: I don’t use the octagonal/hexagonal/triangular prisms, so the resizing doesn’t affect me.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 11:43:20 AM
The thing is if you are going to fix it, i do not want to resize stuff then

What sort of things are getting messed up?  Can you see a pattern to it?

Someone correct me if I’m wrong. It seems to be the 3 non-hollow components added in the previous update; Hexagon/Triangle/The Other One. They all had bizarre base sizes (around 11.0 X/Y/Z) if these have been reset to the same as the rest (1.0) then that would explain why it’s stretched the components out.
I can confirm that. The scaling for the hex, tri, and Octo cylinders were along the lines of 11.5, 5, 11.5 in the previous build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 11:44:44 AM
The AmpFlow motors have been facing the wrong way ever since they were first put in the game.  If you check out the photos on AmpFlow’s website you can see what I mean.

In addition they previously could be mounted on either side.  As part of the cleanup process we fixed this so that they can only be mounted where the bolt holes lie.  To be honest, this has been driving me nuts for years and I’m happy to have it fixed.

Mounting should now only occur in one side where the bolt pattern is, and the models are now flipped.

Let me check through the notes on the poorly scaled shapes, but I believe they are the correct size now.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 11:49:58 AM
Great, I’ve gotta bfe all of my bots. :/ I’ve got over seventy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 15, 2020, 11:57:27 AM
Will we have smaller size scales (<0.1) for shapes in the future? I was impressed with how those three kinds of cylinders scales and was able to make some tiny components.

Also, many of us are all starving for a tool that can delete the entire component, it's been nightmare when you gonna delete a component within hundreds of colliders.

Edit: Or maybe a way to directly replace the motor that the components attach to
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on February 15, 2020, 11:59:19 AM
I was working on my old bots to fix the drives. Came across this. It wants to attach on the side. This is on the new Ampflow 40-300.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xjW5BX6c/ZZZ-bug.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 15, 2020, 12:02:24 PM
Guys - I’m not being funny but please don’t forget this is a work in progress game.

Everything and anything within it is subject to change.

I did mention that the changing of motor directions, ect would most likely cause some frustration among the current community but ultimately it’s something we wanted fixed for all upcoming builds.

At this point the best bit of advise I can give you all is just don’t get too attached to anything in the game as it could all change very easily! But ultimately we hope that such sacrifices will be for the better good in the long run :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on February 15, 2020, 12:31:41 PM
Guys - I’m not being funny but please don’t forget this is a work in progress game.

Everything and anything within it is subject to change.

I did mention that the changing of motor directions, ect would most likely cause some frustration among the current community but ultimately it’s something we wanted fixed for all upcoming builds.

At this point the best bit of advise I can give you all is just don’t get too attached to anything in the game as it could all change very easily! But ultimately we hope that such sacrifices will be for the better good in the long run :)

From my perspective, and maybe I’m speaking out of place here, however I was unsure if the changes I’d seen in the update (stretched components) we’re intentional or not. If it’s intentional then I know to adjust my builds accordingly, if it’s not and it’s an error then there’s no point making any changes in case the error gets fixed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 12:36:06 PM
Guys - I’m not being funny but please don’t forget this is a work in progress game.

Everything and anything within it is subject to change.

I did mention that the changing of motor directions, ect would most likely cause some frustration among the current community but ultimately it’s something we wanted fixed for all upcoming builds.

At this point the best bit of advise I can give you all is just don’t get too attached to anything in the game as it could all change very easily! But ultimately we hope that such sacrifices will be for the better good in the long run :)

Wham with all due respect, we are not sh**ting on this game, we are just pointing out what is broken so yall dont miss a thing. Lightning is on his own tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on February 15, 2020, 12:39:07 PM
I just shared something that I'm fairly certain is a bug. Further, I just go with the changes as they come.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 12:54:26 PM
Guys - I’m not being funny but please don’t forget this is a work in progress game.

Everything and anything within it is subject to change.

I did mention that the changing of motor directions, ect would most likely cause some frustration among the current community but ultimately it’s something we wanted fixed for all upcoming builds.

At this point the best bit of advise I can give you all is just don’t get too attached to anything in the game as it could all change very easily! But ultimately we hope that such sacrifices will be for the better good in the long run :)

Wham with all due respect, we are not sh**ting on this game, we are just pointing out what is broken so yall dont miss a thing. Lightning is on his own tho
I'm just reflecting on the update. I currently don't have any working bots, so I can't test it. Also, don't call me Lightning, cause there's another guy who's username is Lightning S.
EDIT: The NPC T-64 motors are an awesome addition to the game. I'm currently working on a Last Rites rep, and any other motor wouldn't have worked. Also, why are the ME0708s so heavy now? All my bots that use them are now superheavyweights. Its kinda annoying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 01:22:18 PM
I just shared something that I'm fairly certain is a bug. Further, I just go with the changes as they come.

Agreed!  There are a lot of motor changes in this build.  We were bound to screw something up.

The motor sitting at a right angle is definitely not right.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 01:23:10 PM
I just shared something that I'm fairly certain is a bug. Further, I just go with the changes as they come.

Agreed!  There are a lot of motor changes in this build.  We were buns to screw something up.

The motor sitting at a right angle is definitely not right.
Yeah, but you can do fun stuff with it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 01:32:44 PM
Guys - I’m not being funny but please don’t forget this is a work in progress game.

Everything and anything within it is subject to change.

I did mention that the changing of motor directions, ect would most likely cause some frustration among the current community but ultimately it’s something we wanted fixed for all upcoming builds.

At this point the best bit of advise I can give you all is just don’t get too attached to anything in the game as it could all change very easily! But ultimately we hope that such sacrifices will be for the better good in the long run :)

From my perspective, and maybe I’m speaking out of place here, however I was unsure if the changes I’d seen in the update (stretched components) we’re intentional or not. If it’s intentional then I know to adjust my builds accordingly, if it’s not and it’s an error then there’s no point making any changes in case the error gets fixed.

WhamettNuht, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the scaling errors of the components was a mistake in the last build.  In your commit notes from 9 days ago you had written:

"Updated the Geo Cylinders scaling issues."

Wasn't this a fix put in place in the current build to address the problem that Arcane mentioned about the 05February build?

Arcane said, "Someone correct me if I’m wrong. It seems to be the 3 non-hollow components added in the previous update; Hexagon/Triangle/The Other One. They all had bizarre base sizes (around 11.0 X/Y/Z) if these have been reset to the same as the rest (1.0) then that would explain why it’s stretched the components out."

Its always a little risky to build with brand new components.  They have a higher chance of being tweaked down the line as we find bugs.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 01:35:07 PM
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 01:36:46 PM
FWIW,

Here's an image of an AmpFlow A40-300.  It clearly shows the 4 mounting bolt holes.  It has been mounting on the wrong side of the motor in the game since the beginning.  With WhamettNuht on board to rework all of the models it was time to fix the bug.

(https://www.robotmarketplace.com/resize?po=http%3a%2f%2fwww.robotcombat.com%2fproducts%2fimages%2fA40-300-1.jpg&bw=1000&w=1000&bh=1000&h=1000)

Thank you for being patient.  Growing pains!  Game is improving! Yay!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 01:37:53 PM
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...

Oh man!  I'm so sorry! Eep!

 :embarr
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 01:56:46 PM
FWIW,

Here's an image of an AmpFlow A40-300.  It clearly shows the 4 mounting bolt holes.  It has been mounting on the wrong side of the motor in the game since the beginning.  With WhamettNuht on board to rework all of the models it was time to fix the bug.
Its all gud and all, we will adapt, but the thing is that most of us got used to the old mounting system. Its not only this game only. Ive been playing RA2 for around 5 years, and the way you attach the motors is to attach them directly onto the bottom of the chassis. Thats why i got sourfaced
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 02:04:38 PM
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...

Oh man!  I'm so sorry! Eep!

 :embarr
Maybe you could create a build with the bugfixes and everything but with the old meshes
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 02:06:35 PM
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...

Oh man!  I'm so sorry! Eep!

 :embarr
Maybe you could create a build with the bugfixes and everything but with the old meshes

Im pretty sure that that might be his plan
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 02:08:03 PM
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...

Oh man!  I'm so sorry! Eep!

 :embarr
Maybe you could create a build with the bugfixes and everything but with the old meshes
I mean, if someone wants to make that happen, I’m all for it. I’d probably need to talk to Kupa first though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 02:41:49 PM
Not doing it that way was my call.  WhammetNuht originally created an “old” and “new” version of the motors.  I made the decision to simplify things for newer players who would inevitably wonder why there were two versions with similar names, pick the wrong version, then be absolutely furious when their robots wouldn’t load because we deleted the “old” motors in some future build.  It would be better to rip off the bandaid now than to cause more problems later.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 02:50:07 PM
Not doing it that way was my call.  WhammetNuht originally created an “old” and “new” version of the motors.  I made the decision to simplify things for newer players who would inevitably wonder why there were two versions with similar names, pick the wrong version, then be absolutely furious when their robots wouldn’t load because we deleted the “old” motors in some future build.  It would be better to rip off the bandaid now than to cause more problems later.
Maybe just hide them now? Like they can still be ingame but they cant be selected at all


Maybe use old ampflows models for old versions of ampflows and hiding them?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 03:08:13 PM
From what I'm seeing, The Ampflow 30-400's are severely broken, the 40-300's are fine, and the Motoenergy spins the other way now, which is fine, but it's WAY too heavy now. Thankfully all SvL have the same issue, which is the 30-400's, so fixing that should fix all of them.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
From what I'm seeing, The Ampflow 30-400's are severely broken, the 40-300's are fine, and the Motoenergy spins the other way now, which is fine, but it's WAY too heavy now. Thankfully all SvL have the same issue, which is the 30-400's, so fixing that should fix all of them.
No kidding about the Etek-R.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 15, 2020, 03:19:29 PM
One solution to this problem that I can think of is to set the old 30-400s back to the old attachment points. This would fix the problem where old robots have broken motors. The new 30-400s could still have the new attachment points, which would fix the broken robots we have and still keep the new motor attachment points in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 03:53:17 PM
Brushless motors. I gotta give wham credit, its well made
There is one fatal flaw

https://youtu.be/ZelvmmyG9wg
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 03:58:46 PM
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 15, 2020, 04:01:25 PM
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
Could you change the old motor meshes back too?
EDIT: That would make the attachment points for the old motors more accurate.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 15, 2020, 04:05:40 PM
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?

It wont be that much of an issue, we could always move the motors a bit more forward/back.

I usually wouldnt do this too however 80+ of my bots are screwed up which is a big number

Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
Could you change the old motor meshes back too?

Jfc no stop it youre not contributing to anyone
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 15, 2020, 04:14:03 PM
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?

I agree with Kix, even if the motors are slightly off, we could easily readjust them and it would be far better than what they are like now. Although it's a shame that there's no perfect way to add the new motors and not mess up legacy robots, it seems like resetting the old motors and hiding them is best option there is.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 04:27:41 PM
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 06:00:43 PM
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
It’s better than our current predicament. I’d feel much better doing minor adjustments on 100 bots than doing major adjustments on 100 bots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 15, 2020, 06:45:23 PM
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?

Not really.  This build has a ton of commits and affected hundreds of lines of code and many hours worth of assets.  The new build would be done specifically to address legacy compatibility.  It might take a few days.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 15, 2020, 06:52:06 PM
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?

Not really.  This build has a ton of commits and affected hundreds of lines of code and many hours worth of assets.  The new build would be done specifically to address legacy compatibility.  It might take a few days.
Aight. How long would it take to fix the 30-400’s for the new build? Contemplating whether i should fix all the entries or just wait it out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 15, 2020, 09:40:39 PM
I'm really enjoying this new build!  I made a couple test robots and noticed the following:

-Mobility kills are definitely a real deal now with the wheel building tools.  It doesn't take too much effort to use my bar spinner to remove tires from my 4-wheeled drum spinner to immobilize it, just like in real robot combat.

-I love that chassis panels can now break off.  I think it's safe to say that the health bar can go away as KOs are effected by smashing the other robot to pieces in some manner IRL.

-It seems that material resilience is still pretty high compared to what I see on TV.  Shouldn't a bar spinner with 100 kJ of energy absolutely destroy polycarbonate almost regardless of realistic thickness?

-I think the bottom of the chassis should be destroyable.  Any components mounted to the destroyed bottom of the chassis go with it.  So if the bot controller is mounted to the bottom of the chassis and that panel goes away, so does the controller and the bot is KO.

--Building on that thought, perhaps the tree structure of building bots is too limiting in the way these things can actually be destroyed?  IRL bots keep going until they can't, either though mobility issues or complete dismemberment.  I remember seeing a battle between Warhawk and Hydra where Hydra literally dismembered Warhawk, but Warhawk's individual components kept moving based on operator inputs.  The bot got counted out because it was immobilized.  Another example was a fight between Tombstone and some kind of pushbot.  But Tombstone's bar spinner nailed a corner of the push bot and broke the bot in half diagonally.  Yeah, that bot was down for the count.

With that being said, if the way the game works could be converted from the tree structure to some kind of universal interconnectivity, the ways stuff could be destroyed would be less limiting.

-How fine can destruction be made?  Is it reasonable to believe that computers can simulate panels shredding or shattering to some degree based on the materials and type if impact involved?  Realistically, panels may do more than just break off - they may be ripped in half or shattered to pieces too.  Then the bot can puke out batteries, motors, etc.

Looking forward to more progress  :thumbup

EDIT:  Totally destroyed this robot, but even with the side panels gone, it took awhile for the bar spinner to eviscerate it of its motors and batteries.  The damage slider is turned all the way up to 200%, so perhaps it needs to be 400%?

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on February 16, 2020, 12:58:19 AM
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 02:59:57 AM
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on February 16, 2020, 05:59:55 AM
Okay, so I’ve had a good amount of time to play around with this build of the game and I have to say the changes to mobility with these new motors have improved drastically. Bots that drove somewhat okay in previous builds have become a lot more mobile. The AP of the Ampflow motors are a little funky but overall I’m really happy with the direction you guys are taking this. Also, the new models for the motors look great.

The LED lights are a great addition to the workshop, I was half expecting them to tank my FPS but I haven’t had any issues at all. The changes to the hot keys are greatly appreciated too.

I’m liking the new arena, especially the camera placement as it allows for some nice screenshots. I’m excited to see what can be made possible now that you guys have an arena building tool.

One thing I would like to ask is if there are any plans to remove the damage scaler from the settings? It’s a small thing but I do occasionally reduce the damage to 10% or 0% to mess around and I would miss that setting if it was removed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 08:00:20 AM
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up

I will see what I can do today. 

Guldenflame is right.  You can not expect a piece of software in the Alpha state to remain static.  If so that is bad because it means that the software has been abandoned and will never reach release and maintainance.  There are times when we are going to have to change or remove things that are going to completely invalidate some robots.  Case in point: the flail.  It is broken.  There is no easy way to get it working without a LOT of effort.  This isn't effort that is worth the time considering how many other higher-priority things we have to do.

You are also right.  It absolutely sucks to see hundreds of hours of work become deprecated by a software decision someone else made.  If there are any Flash developers still out there, they know what I'm talking about.

With that being said, I'm going to try to restore the AmpFlow motors to the way they previously worked, but hiding them in the process.  If I succeed, they will still exist in your old robot and still work, but will no longer be available in the list.  If you accidentally delete the motor, it is gone and you will need to use the new version.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 08:30:37 AM
I'm really enjoying this new build!  I made a couple test robots and noticed the following:

-Mobility kills are definitely a real deal now with the wheel building tools.  It doesn't take too much effort to use my bar spinner to remove tires from my 4-wheeled drum spinner to immobilize it, just like in real robot combat.

Awesome!  Its good to hear that immobility is starting to feel right.  Mobility is key to the entire fight in real life.

-I love that chassis panels can now break off.  I think it's safe to say that the health bar can go away as KOs are effected by smashing the other robot to pieces in some manner IRL.

That's what I'm thinking too.  I'm just wondering if anything should go there.  Gas?  A robot tree status showing what remains?  Nothing?


-It seems that material resilience is still pretty high compared to what I see on TV.  Shouldn't a bar spinner with 100 kJ of energy absolutely destroy polycarbonate almost regardless of realistic thickness?

I can vouch for this.  In our real-life robots, the 1/2" polycarbonate we used as side armor would just explode the instant it was glanced by a spinner.  We stopped using polycarbonate last year and haven't looked back.

-I think the bottom of the chassis should be destroyable.  Any components mounted to the destroyed bottom of the chassis go with it.  So if the bot controller is mounted to the bottom of the chassis and that panel goes away, so does the controller and the bot is KO.

Roger.  It is pretty simple to make the effect happen mechanically.  Just need to write a few lines of code.  I wanted to see how everyone feels first though.

--Building on that thought, perhaps the tree structure of building bots is too limiting in the way these things can actually be destroyed?  IRL bots keep going until they can't, either though mobility issues or complete dismemberment.  I remember seeing a battle between Warhawk and Hydra where Hydra literally dismembered Warhawk, but Warhawk's individual components kept moving based on operator inputs.  The bot got counted out because it was immobilized.  Another example was a fight between Tombstone and some kind of pushbot.  But Tombstone's bar spinner nailed a corner of the push bot and broke the bot in half diagonally.  Yeah, that bot was down for the count.

With that being said, if the way the game works could be converted from the tree structure to some kind of universal interconnectivity, the ways stuff could be destroyed would be less limiting.

The tree structure that we came up with has been 3 years and thousands of development hours in the making and is the core of the whole game.  It is a pretty sweet (and complicated) bit of tech at this point.  If we are going to change anything about it at this point I want to be darn sure it is worth it. 

@something, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Battlebots robots are actually multiple robots in a single chassis.   They use multiple people running independent transmitter/receivers, each controlling completely isolated electrical systems.  If one system breaks, the rest can still work.  Multibot battles are already in the works.  Maybe down the road we can think about making 2 multi bots into a single robot?


-How fine can destruction be made?  Is it reasonable to believe that computers can simulate panels shredding or shattering to some degree based on the materials and type if impact involved?  Realistically, panels may do more than just break off - they may be ripped in half or shattered to pieces too.  Then the bot can puke out batteries, motors, etc.

Maybe.  In a traditional game a professional artist manually goes in and creates two versions of every part, an intact one and a broken one (or multiple broken ones depending on time and budget). In our game it is a MUCH harder challenge.  YOU are the artist who made the part in the first place.  We can't put it on the players to make a bunch of broken version of parts, and developing the tool set to do this is extremely involved.  The price tag of our game will pale in comparison to the $1500/year that Adobe charges for 3ds Max.  They can hire A LOT more programmers than we can to make the tool set good, and they have been iterating since the 1990s. 

Whatever broken versions of shapes exist in our game must be made by a computer-generated algorithm.  I haven't seen/found/developed one that meets our needs yet.  Hopefully with the larger team we will be able to put our heads together and come up with something.

EDIT:  Totally destroyed this robot, but even with the side panels gone, it took awhile for the bar spinner to eviscerate it of its motors and batteries.  The damage slider is turned all the way up to 200%, so perhaps it needs to be 400%?

Motors need to be a lot less robust than they are now.  The casing on an Ampflow A28-150 is reasonably thick, but it doesn't stand a chance against a direct hit from a spinner in real life.  Thats why motors go on the inside.  (I'm looking at you, Nightmare! :))

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

New version of this arena coming soon!  The lighting only shows up correctly on a mac.  I mistakenly assumed it was working on Windows before I published it.  I promised the real version is much more colorful!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 10:17:24 AM
The motor reversion looks like it is working flawlessly.  I'm hoping to have a rough cut out in the next 12 hours.  The new meshes are missing for the new versions of the A40-300 and F30-400, but I'm hoping to have that fixed before we publish the build.

The old versions of the motors will no longer be visible in the list of motors, but will still exist in the game so that the old robots don't break.

My apologies to anyone caught in the middle.  This coming build will break anything you have created using the A40-300 or F30-400 with the 15February2020 build.

PS -  I fixed the mass on the ME0708.  I have no idea what happened, but it suddenly became a 35 kg motor. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 16, 2020, 10:25:36 AM

My apologies to anyone caught in the middle.  This coming build will break anything you have created using the A40-300 or F30-400 with the 15February2020 build.

PS -  I fixed the mass on the ME0708.  I have no idea what happened, but it suddenly became a 35 kg motor. :)
Yay so my etek thwack will survive AND be in the correct weight class!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 11:09:14 AM
Ok finally back from not being home and:

Well in one hand im feeling happy about the revert, on the other i feel like i shouldnt have said about restoring the motors.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 16, 2020, 11:48:21 AM
Outside of the issue with the 30-400’s, the only other problems I’ve seen is when you go into a fight in the test arena, it immediately starts instead of prompting you to press a button when you’re ready. Also, I feel like the axle for the pancake etek should be a lot shorter, as the current length of it kinda defeats its purpose. The last nitpick I have is that the rims weigh nearly nothing, yet the tires get really heavy. If we could adjust the thickness of both, that’d be great.
Overall, this build is amazing, but it’s improvements have been greatly overshadowed by the incompatibility of bots in previous builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 01:23:23 PM
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 02:35:33 PM
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 02:47:10 PM
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?
EDIT: It doesn't have to be 100% complete.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 02:49:12 PM
The 16February2020 builds are up:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

[Updates in the February 16th Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed the lighting/shaders/color in the School Tournament Arena for Windows machines.

[Bug Fix] Restored the ME0708 motor mass to the correct mass of 12.7 kg.  For some reason it got set to 35 kg in the 15FEBRUARY builds.

[Reversion] MOTORS REVERTED TO THE 05FEBRUARY2020 VERSIONS - Due to the fact that the February 15th build reduced the attachment points and flipped the orientation of the motors by 180 degrees for the A40-300 and F30-400 motors, causing pretty much every robot players had previously built to suddenly become wonky, we have restored the settings of the motors for pre-existing robots.

This means you shouldn't have to go back and change your .RR2Bot files.

The old versions of the motors are still in the game, but no longer listed as an option to be selected.

IMPORTANT - Please note that this should restore any robots made with these motors in the 05FEBRUARY or earlier builds.  This also means that any robots made with the 15FEBRUARY build using the A40-300 or F30-400 will have incorrect motor positioning.  Robots made with the 16FEBRUARY build will work as normal.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 02:49:40 PM
Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?

Why the **** are you so annoying with these requests? If its not finished, they wont release it, you know it, we know it, everyone knows it.



Ayy new build. Okay so if i used the (New motors i should be fine i guess)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 02:53:29 PM
The 16February2020 builds are up:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

[Updates in the February 16th Build]

[Bug Fix] Fixed the lighting/shaders/color in the School Tournament Arena for Windows machines.

[Bug Fix] Restored the ME0708 motor mass to the correct mass of 12.7 kg.  For some reason it got set to 35 kg in the 15FEBRUARY builds.

[Reversion] MOTORS REVERTED TO THE 05FEBRUARY2020 VERSIONS - Due to the fact that the February 15th build reduced the attachment points and flipped the orientation of the motors by 180 degrees for the A40-300 and F30-400 motors, causing pretty much every robot players had previously built to suddenly become wonky, we have restored the settings of the motors for pre-existing robots.

This means you shouldn't have to go back and change your .RR2Bot files.

The old versions of the motors are still in the game, but no longer listed as an option to be selected.

IMPORTANT - Please note that this should restore any robots made with these motors in the 05FEBRUARY or earlier builds.  This also means that any robots made with the 15FEBRUARY build using the A40-300 or F30-400 will have incorrect motor positioning.  Robots made with the 16FEBRUARY build will work as normal.
Yay! Thanks!


Where is the arena modding tool?
EDIT: the new arena building capability sounds awesome, so I would like to try it out.

KupaTec has it at the moment, with WhammetNuht working on the new arenas with it.  There are still quite a few features they are looking to put in before we release it to the public.
Ok. Could you put out a preview version on /bleedingedgebuilds?

Why the **** are you so annoying with these requests? If its not finished, they wont release it, you know it, we know it, everyone knows it.



Ayy new build. Okay so if i used the (New motors i should be fine i guess)
They released the game and it isn't complete.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 02:55:28 PM
They released the game and it isn't complete.

Game and a mod tool arent the same thing lol. They cant release a thing that can potentially break the game

Not only did you request a game project which is private, but also an unfinished tool

Stop with the childish requests or mods will have to intervene
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 02:56:41 PM
They released the game and it isn't complete.

Game and a mod tool arent the same thing lol. They cant release a thing that can potentially break the game
The zip isn't affected. Just unzip it again because the arenas are in the default windows 64 data folder.
EDIT: The arenas aren't stored in a place that they would break the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 16, 2020, 03:09:56 PM
They released the game and it isn't complete.
If Kupa and Wham aren't in a position where they're comfortable enough to release the AMT, then it clearly isn't in a functional enough state to make high quality arenas in. It's completely reasonable to want the tool, but it's going to be released no matter what and I'm sure you can muster the patience to wait. If you want to make arenas so badly, just use blender for now, as anything you make in there can easily be imported into the AMT later on. Pestering Kupa to release the tool is not going to make it come any faster, and there is no point in releasing it when it isn't done. Just be patient.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 03:14:07 PM
They released the game and it isn't complete.
If Kupa and Wham aren't in a position where they're comfortable enough to release the AMT, then it clearly isn't in a functional enough state to make high quality arenas in. It's completely reasonable to want the tool, but it's going to be released no matter what and I'm sure you can muster the patience to wait. If you want to make arenas so badly, just use blender for now, as anything you make in there can easily be imported into the AMT later on. Pestering Kupa to release the tool is not going to make it come any faster, and there is no point in releasing it when it isn't done. Just be patient.
Yeah. IK ive gotta be patient.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 03:47:44 PM
Oh yeah btw, the old motors are not hidden in the motors section
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 04:17:33 PM
Oh yeah btw, the old motors are not hidden in the motors section

Darn it!  Time for another build!

Stupid flu makes brain fuzzy hard to think.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 04:26:03 PM
Oh yeah btw, the old motors are not hidden in the motors section

Darn it!  Time for another build!

Stupid flu makes brain fuzzy hard to think.

Also, the new A40-300 have broken axle points. Instead of spinning in z direction its spinning in x direction
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 04:54:23 PM
Oh yeah btw, the old motors are not hidden in the motors section

Darn it!  Time for another build!

Stupid flu makes brain fuzzy hard to think.

Also, the new A40-300 have broken axle points. Instead of spinning in z direction its spinning in x direction

Oof.  Thanks for pointing that out.  I was afraid that was going to happen with the rush job I did this morning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 16, 2020, 04:58:56 PM
The school arena still looks like this for me:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The chassis damage is so realistic! Thank you RR2 devs!
EDIT 2: After looking at the file in notepad, maybe the reason its broken is its encoded in carriage return, not carriage return and line feed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 06:38:11 PM
The school arena still looks like this for me:
 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
EDIT: The chassis damage is so realistic! Thank you RR2 devs!
EDIT 2: After looking at the file in notepad, maybe the reason its broken is its encoded in carriage return, not carriage return and line feed.

I somehow managed to upload the MacOS version of the arena for the Windows build.  One of the quirks of the arena builder is that it has to create a version for each platform.  Windows uses DirectX, while MacOS uses OpenGL or Metal.  We’re currently trying to streamline the process.  I tried to add the correct version to the build by manually, but made a mistake in the process.

I’m glad you like the chassis damage.  On the surface it’sa little thing, but from a game design perspective I think it potentially changes the way the game is played.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 16, 2020, 06:39:09 PM
Maybe.  In a traditional game a professional artist manually goes in and creates two versions of every part, an intact one and a broken one (or multiple broken ones depending on time and budget). In our game it is a MUCH harder challenge.  YOU are the artist who made the part in the first place.  We can't put it on the players to make a bunch of broken version of parts, and developing the tool set to do this is extremely involved.  The price tag of our game will pale in comparison to the $1500/year that Adobe charges for 3ds Max.  They can hire A LOT more programmers than we can to make the tool set good, and they have been iterating since the 1990s. 

I think the closest thing to this I can think of is whatever makes destructible terrain work in some combat games, or soft-body physics simulators like Rigs of Rods, the latter of which can be pretty CPU-intensive.  I'm just a dreamer, not a programmer  :dumb)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 16, 2020, 06:53:27 PM

I think the closest thing to this I can think of is whatever makes destructible terrain work in some combat games, or soft-body physics simulators like Rigs of Rods, the latter of which can be pretty CPU-intensive.  I'm just a dreamer, not a programmer  :dumb)

On a AAA game team sizes are typically around 1000 people, with several hundred artists working full time to produce broken terrain pieces.

Because our meshes  are user-generated, we would have to create our own breakage algorithm.

Alternatively, we currently have an asset that will do real-time mesh deformation, but it is low-poly and looks terrible.

We are still in the trying things out stage.  We have a long way to go still.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 16, 2020, 06:53:34 PM
Soft body physics is not only cpu intensive but pricy too.

There are voxels too, but that is just not really good enough.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 16, 2020, 08:32:40 PM
it seems E-teks are turned to the opposite direction, and NPCs still heading the ground, would these be fixed?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 17, 2020, 02:26:13 AM
I've been having problems with Circumvolution's flywheel again. This is the exact same version of the bot that you already have so you should be able to test it. I'll also send an updated version when I've put the new motors in.

Frequently, damage caused to a part on the flywheel is dealt to one of the parts further back in the parent chain.
That parent part promptly comes off after taking only the tiniest fraction of the damage its HP should be able to absorb.
When this happens, that parent part rarely takes more than a few of its child parts with it, and never takes all of them.

Typically this manifests as a tooth hitting an opponent, one of the parts of that tooth taking the last bit of damage needed to finish it off, and at that point that entire quarter of the weapon comes off whole along with the heavy steel-50 cylinder that serves as the root for the entire weapon, while the other three quarters of the weapon remain attached despite now missing their shared parent part.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 17, 2020, 03:03:53 AM
There are some issues with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 17, 2020, 03:20:58 AM
Also, the new A40-300 have broken axle points. Instead of spinning in z direction its spinning in x direction

Could you send me some screenshots of what you're currently seeing? I'll take a look at this tonight.

And regarding anything wheel builder - please note I am currently balancing a lot of values, ect. I have a feeling a lot of bouncing, driving, ect. issues might be down to incorrect weights. I'm currently trying to find a low-level and high-level stat range I am happy with then I'll apply these across all parts as balanced values.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 17, 2020, 03:38:45 AM
Also, the new A40-300 have broken axle points. Instead of spinning in z direction its spinning in x direction

Could you send me some screenshots of what you're currently seeing? I'll take a look at this tonight.

And regarding anything wheel builder - please note I am currently balancing a lot of values, ect. I have a feeling a lot of bouncing, driving, ect. issues might be down to incorrect weights. I'm currently trying to find a low-level and high-level stat range I am happy with then I'll apply these across all parts as balanced values.

Heres one better:
https://youtu.be/-vvx_gar8XQ
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 17, 2020, 04:06:54 AM
Ta muchly,

It looks like it should just be a hinge joint issue. Hopefully it will be easy for me to fix haha!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 17, 2020, 08:11:30 AM

On a AAA game team sizes are typically around 1000 people, with several hundred artists working full time to produce broken terrain pieces.

Because our meshes  are user-generated, we would have to create our own breakage algorithm.

Alternatively, we currently have an asset that will do real-time mesh deformation, but it is low-poly and looks terrible.

We are still in the trying things out stage.  We have a long way to go still.

One thing i didnt think about sooner, maybe for damage:

ok so what if you used a scratch for the condition of the parts, the more scracthed it is, less hp it has, maybe dynamic scratches? Where the hit occurs the scratch is there?
Now its not perfect, what about the axes? Axe bots dont do scratches. What if you did fake dents? Basicaly a bumpmap transparent texture that has like 90% transparency, That way the dented part would be darker.

As for the deformation. Maybe if a big hit that usually would deform a part, in this case it would shift rotate the part a small bit in the rotation of the weapon

This is much easier to do than some of the other much more difficult system.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 17, 2020, 10:56:43 AM
There's some issue with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Sorry about that!  I will try to take a look at it tonight.

I suspect you found a bug in my drive motor finding logic.  Hopefully it’s an easy fix.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 17, 2020, 10:57:55 AM
Also, the new A40-300 have broken axle points. Instead of spinning in z direction its spinning in x direction

Could you send me some screenshots of what you're currently seeing? I'll take a look at this tonight.

And regarding anything wheel builder - please note I am currently balancing a lot of values, ect. I have a feeling a lot of bouncing, driving, ect. issues might be down to incorrect weights. I'm currently trying to find a low-level and high-level stat range I am happy with then I'll apply these across all parts as balanced values.

Heres one better:
https://youtu.be/-vvx_gar8XQ (https://youtu.be/-vvx_gar8XQ)

Ok a follow up:
https://youtu.be/-8FUTqk11Ac (https://youtu.be/-8FUTqk11Ac)

I think powerrave noticed this before

Ok a thing i would also wish is that the disc wouldnt fall off because of the self damage, basically, if there was a system where you could assign 2 parts to hold the disc together, or the game could assign the closest ones from the centre of the disc/drum , and if one breaks off, the disc would fall off then
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 17, 2020, 12:24:35 PM
The school arena still looks like this for me:

EDIT: The chassis damage is so realistic! Thank you RR2 devs!
EDIT 2: After looking at the file in notepad, maybe the reason its broken is its encoded in carriage return, not carriage return and line feed.

I somehow managed to upload the MacOS version of the arena for the Windows build.  One of the quirks of the arena builder is that it has to create a version for each platform.  Windows uses DirectX, while MacOS uses OpenGL or Metal.  We’re currently trying to streamline the process.  I tried to add the correct version to the build by manually, but made a mistake in the process.

I’m glad you like the chassis damage.  On the surface it’sa little thing, but from a game design perspective I think it potentially changes the way the game is played.
Could you post the windows school arena file?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on February 17, 2020, 01:00:17 PM
Ok a follow up:
https://youtu.be/-8FUTqk11Ac (https://youtu.be/-8FUTqk11Ac)

I think powerrave noticed this before

Ok a thing i would also wish is that the disc wouldnt fall off because of the self damage, basically, if there was a system where you could assign 2 parts to hold the disc together, or the game could assign the closest ones from the centre of the disc/drum , and if one breaks off, the disc would fall off then
Yeah I have shown it before where I found it during the reworking of Miasma. Had a gearbox mounted on the side of the new 40-300.

Pic again for reference:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjW5BX6c/ZZZ-bug.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 17, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
Yeah I have shown it before where I found it during the reworking of Miasma. Had a gearbox mounted on the side of the new 40-300.
Yeah k im actually turning into a boomer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 17, 2020, 01:41:29 PM
Still some fine-tuning issues for the coding guys to sort out but the A40-300 motor should be back to working as intended for the next build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 17, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
Still some fine-tuning issues for the coding guys to sort out but the A40-300 motor should be back to working as intended for the next build.
Will the brushless motor be fixed for the next build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 17, 2020, 07:52:31 PM
Okay, so... I've just tried the feb16 build, and Circumvolution's gotten catastrophically worse for reasons I can't figure out. The entire robot disintegrates at the slightest provocation, and the weapon is simply incapable of damaging anything more than exposed wheels during its brief existence. If anything, the shrapnel is probably more dangerous than the robot itself.

I even built a completely new robot to the same concept with fewer parts (such as using a hollow cylinder for the flywheel) and that one's even worse. I've seen its wheels break seemingly just from the weight of the robot pressing down on them, and the flywheel consistently just comes clean off after it scores one or occasionally two of its pathetic hits.

 :vista:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 18, 2020, 03:14:05 AM
Still some fine-tuning issues for the coding guys to sort out but the A40-300 motor should be back to working as intended for the next build.
Will the brushless motor be fixed for the next build?

What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 18, 2020, 05:18:29 AM
Still some fine-tuning issues for the coding guys to sort out but the A40-300 motor should be back to working as intended for the next build.
Will the brushless motor be fixed for the next build?

What's wrong with it?

Attachment points are supper finnicky, there is one precise pixel where you can attach a part on it. I already posted a vid of me struggling to attach stuff

In other news, the hollow cylinders have the normal cylinder mesh which i understand because unity, however there is one other thing that semi broken

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/679285516528517130/unknown.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 18, 2020, 07:43:12 AM
Okay, so... I've just tried the feb16 build, and Circumvolution's gotten catastrophically worse for reasons I can't figure out. The entire robot disintegrates at the slightest provocation, and the weapon is simply incapable of damaging anything more than exposed wheels during its brief existence. If anything, the shrapnel is probably more dangerous than the robot itself.

No worries!  This should be pretty easily balance-able.

I even built a completely new robot to the same concept with fewer parts (such as using a hollow cylinder for the flywheel) and that one's even worse. I've seen its wheels break seemingly just from the weight of the robot pressing down on them, and the flywheel consistently just comes clean off after it scores one or occasionally two of its pathetic hits.

 :vista:

The only damage that should exist in the game right now is due to spinner hits.  A robot pressing down on its wheels shouldn't do any damage.  Do you think its weapon is damaging its own wheels?

Also, just curious, but what damage slider setting are you using?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 18, 2020, 07:50:49 AM
I even built a completely new robot to the same concept with fewer parts (such as using a hollow cylinder for the flywheel) and that one's even worse. I've seen its wheels break seemingly just from the weight of the robot pressing down on them, and the flywheel consistently just comes clean off after it scores one or occasionally two of its pathetic hits.

 :vista:

The only damage that should exist in the game right now is due to spinner hits.  A robot pressing down on its wheels shouldn't do any damage.  Do you think its weapon is damaging its own wheels?

Also, just curious, but what damage slider setting are you using?

The first tests were on 25. I then turned it up to 100 in the hope that maybe the opposing bots would start taking damage - since Circumvolution and its new sibling would struggle to get much more fragile - but nothing seemed to actually change.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 18, 2020, 08:26:27 AM
One thing i have noticed is that rammers actually cause damage, Oh and that the self damage is still present, you see the disc will hit the floor and fall off, realistically, the chain "might fall off", in this case its the disc
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 18, 2020, 09:32:59 AM
Here's a small issue, I cannot copy my custom shapes
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 18, 2020, 03:16:37 PM
I just uploaded an update to the game which fixes the brushless motor's attachment points being too small. They'll now be easier to attach to.
I also fixed an issue with the A40-300 motor's axle having a slight wobble due to the AP being slightly off.
Should be up in the next build :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 18, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
I just thought of a theory regarding one of the issues I've been seeing with flywheels.

Perhaps damage is now being calculated based on the size or weight of the individual part that scores the hit? That would explain why I see bars doing just fine but all the flywheels I have do basically nothing, since said flywheels all have their teeth attached as separate components rather than included as part of the main body of the weapon.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 18, 2020, 06:37:14 PM
I just thought of a theory regarding one of the issues I've been seeing with flywheels.

Perhaps damage is now being calculated based on the size or weight of the individual part that scores the hit? That would explain why I see bars doing just fine but all the flywheels I have do basically nothing, since said flywheels all have their teeth attached as separate components rather than included as part of the main body of the weapon.

When I get some time tomorrow I will show you a list of the damage that happens in combat with Circumvolution.

Again, all of this is in flux.  I’m pretty happy with the mechanics of spinner damage.  We just need to work on the numbers now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 19, 2020, 08:41:23 AM
I finally sat down to take a look to see what kinds of damage numbers are coming out of two Circumvolutions fighting each other.  Here's what I have happening over the span of 1.4 seconds of combat:

SPINNER HIT AGAINST ENEMY
1 hit
206 damage due to kinetic energy (in Joules)

SPINNER HIT FLOOR CAUSING SELF DAMAGE
1 hit
127 damage due to kinetic energy (in Joules)

PUNCTURE DAMAGE AGAINST ENEMY
64 hits
2953 damage due to impulse (in Newton-seconds)

The damage is overwhelmingly being cause not by the spinner collider (spinner hits), but by the individual teeth overlapping the other robot's colliders at low speeds (puncture damage).  This is not even close to what we want.  Puncture damage should only occur if the force is high enough to exceed the shear strength of the material.  The puncture damage system needs to be updated.  It should be a relatively easy fix.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 19, 2020, 08:47:43 AM
The puncture damage system needs to be updated.  It should be a relatively easy fix.

Does this mean you want me to come up with some spikes + crusher components aswell? ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 19, 2020, 09:08:19 AM
The puncture damage system needs to be updated.  It should be a relatively easy fix.

Does this mean you want me to come up with some spikes + crusher components aswell? ;)

I think so.  I don’t like the fact that any old shape can cause puncture damage.  I think it leads to the situation that Cyar has been pointing out where the robots fall apart but there is no clear reason why. 

Just like spinner hits very clearly cause spinner damage, hardened tips should be the only things causing puncture damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 19, 2020, 09:25:19 AM
The puncture damage system needs to be updated.  It should be a relatively easy fix.

Does this mean you want me to come up with some spikes + crusher components aswell? ;)

I think so.  I don’t like the fact that any old shape can cause puncture damage.  I think it leads to the situation that Cyar has been pointing out where the robots fall apart but there is no clear reason why. 

Just like spinner hits very clearly cause spinner damage, hardened tips should be the only things causing puncture damage.

Lets start a new email chain on this. I've had some ideas already haha!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Witherana on February 19, 2020, 11:22:38 AM
hey i wanna ask, how do ya acces the arena builder or is it still locked away?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 19, 2020, 04:49:43 PM
hey i wanna ask, how do ya acces the arena builder or is it still locked away?
Atm it is currently unavailable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 19, 2020, 06:37:50 PM
Atm it is currently unavailable.

Probably a good thing until stuff is finalized.  I can only imagine the tears if something changes and it invalidates a bunch of arenas!

There's two sides to the robot compatibility thing.  One, this game is in an alpha state, so changes where robots can be made incompatible between versions are to be expected.  There's no denying that.

The other side is that people think that the game is far enough along to even build so many bots to mess with!  I think that says a lot about the progress with the alpha alone  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 20, 2020, 03:34:21 PM
OK so...

Using a 3 inch brushless

https://youtu.be/PkHPVDf2zP8
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 21, 2020, 03:46:37 AM
OK so...

Using a 3 inch brushless

https://youtu.be/PkHPVDf2zP8

You mean that's not right? :P

Lol, I'll take a look later on.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 21, 2020, 05:21:19 AM
I've been thinking of composing some music loops for the game now that I have a bit of extra storage space for Cubase projects. Is there anything in particular you'd like?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 21, 2020, 09:24:17 AM
I've been thinking of composing some music loops for the game now that I have a bit of extra storage space for Cubase projects. Is there anything in particular you'd like?

Thank you for the offer!  Let me think about this a bit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 21, 2020, 09:53:46 AM
PS, Cyar, I’m tracking down the improper spinner breakage bugs in Circumvolution.  I think I have fixed them all.  Now that they are fixed a new problem has arisen.  When three out of the four quarters break off the weapon becomes so unbalanced that it teleports all over the arena.  I have a few potential fixes in.  We’ll see.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on February 22, 2020, 12:33:33 AM
PS, Cyar, I’m tracking down the improper spinner breakage bugs in Circumvolution.  I think I have fixed them all.  Now that they are fixed a new problem has arisen.  When three out of the four quarters break off the weapon becomes so unbalanced that it teleports all over the arena.  I have a few potential fixes in.  We’ll see.

Hmm. Hopefully something does work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 22, 2020, 01:04:30 PM
PS, Cyar, I’m tracking down the improper spinner breakage bugs in Circumvolution.  I think I have fixed them all.  Now that they are fixed a new problem has arisen.  When three out of the four quarters break off the weapon becomes so unbalanced that it teleports all over the arena.  I have a few potential fixes in.  We’ll see.

Hmm. Hopefully something does work.

Got it:

1. Bug Fix - I think I found and fixed all of the cases where a component breaks off but doesn't taken all of its children with it.
2. Bug Fix - When a spinner becomes so unbalanced that its remaining bits teleport all over the arena, those pieces now break off instead.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 22, 2020, 01:57:45 PM
PS, Cyar, I’m tracking down the improper spinner breakage bugs in Circumvolution.  I think I have fixed them all.  Now that they are fixed a new problem has arisen.  When three out of the four quarters break off the weapon becomes so unbalanced that it teleports all over the arena.  I have a few potential fixes in.  We’ll see.

Hmm. Hopefully something does work.

Got it:

1. Bug Fix - I think I found and fixed all of the cases where a component breaks off but doesn't taken all of its children with it.
2. Bug Fix - When a spinner becomes so unbalanced that its remaining bits teleport all over the arena, those pieces now break off instead.
Wait so discs will now get unbalanced when they lose parts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 22, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
Yes.  I need to check the notes, but spinners becoming unbalanced has been a thing for a few builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 22, 2020, 06:17:54 PM
Working on spinner vs spinner damage now.  A high part count spinner like Circumvolution has the advantage against a single spinning bar.  More stuff to break off =more survivable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 23, 2020, 10:56:47 AM
Ok so i did some testing

so the bots can spin up to 346mph then the bot lifts off like a plane and the disc gets bent

Underneath, this bot can technically reach 450mph, however the game just does its thing

Might test damage at higher/lower speeds to see if damage is dynamically calculated, because i fear it may not be the case
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 23, 2020, 01:07:39 PM
Ok so i did some testing

so the bots can spin up to 346mph then the bot lifts off like a plane and the disc gets bent

Underneath, this bot can technically reach 450mph, however the game just does its thing

Might test damage at higher/lower speeds to see if damage is dynamically calculated, because i fear it may not be the case

In the existing build the maximum damage that can occur is 34% of a particular part’s health.  This eliminates one-hit kills.  For the next build I would like to set the maximum to 100% of the part health, but damage not propagated to the parent.  This way you can always knock off just the one part and whatever is attached to it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 23, 2020, 01:38:11 PM
Ok so i did some testing

so the bots can spin up to 346mph then the bot lifts off like a plane and the disc gets bent

Underneath, this bot can technically reach 450mph, however the game just does its thing

Might test damage at higher/lower speeds to see if damage is dynamically calculated, because i fear it may not be the case

In the existing build the maximum damage that can occur is 34% of a particular part%u2019s health.  This eliminates one-hit kills.  For the next build I would like to set the maximum to 100% of the part health, but damage not propagated to the parent.  This way you can always knock off just the one part and whatever is attached to it.
ey
The thing i notice is that small weak hits do knock out parts that are pretty tough, also weapons seem to fall out relativley easy

Edit: One more thing i notice is that the motors are boosted if on a hinge or another motor/pneumatic burst/linac. Basically they spin up faster
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 23, 2020, 01:49:17 PM
Ok so i did some testing

so the bots can spin up to 346mph then the bot lifts off like a plane and the disc gets bent

Underneath, this bot can technically reach 450mph, however the game just does its thing

Might test damage at higher/lower speeds to see if damage is dynamically calculated, because i fear it may not be the case

In the existing build the maximum damage that can occur is 34% of a particular part%u2019s health.  This eliminates one-hit kills.  For the next build I would like to set the maximum to 100% of the part health, but damage not propagated to the parent.  This way you can always knock off just the one part and whatever is attached to it.
ey
The thing i notice is that small weak hits do knock out parts that are pretty tough, also weapons seem to fall out relativley easy

Edit: One more thing i notice is that the motors are boosted if on a hinge or another motor/pneumatic burst/linac. Basically they spin up faster

I need to get rid of the existing impulse damage code.  I haven’t done that yet.  Pretty much all of the damage that is occurring is impulse based.  A few posts back I wrote some numbers down which quantifies this.  Spinners should be the main damage source.  They operate based on kinetic energy rather than impulse.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 23, 2020, 01:53:06 PM
Ok so i did some testing

so the bots can spin up to 346mph then the bot lifts off like a plane and the disc gets bent

Underneath, this bot can technically reach 450mph, however the game just does its thing

Might test damage at higher/lower speeds to see if damage is dynamically calculated, because i fear it may not be the case

In the existing build the maximum damage that can occur is 34% of a particular part%u2019s health.  This eliminates one-hit kills.  For the next build I would like to set the maximum to 100% of the part health, but damage not propagated to the parent.  This way you can always knock off just the one part and whatever is attached to it.
ey
The thing i notice is that small weak hits do knock out parts that are pretty tough, also weapons seem to fall out relativley easy

Edit: One more thing i notice is that the motors are boosted if on a hinge or another motor/pneumatic burst/linac. Basically they spin up faster

I need to get rid of the existing impulse damage code.  I haven’t done that yet.  Pretty much all of the damage that is occurring is impulse based.  A few posts back I wrote some numbers down which quantifies this.  Spinners should be the main damage source.  They operate based on kinetic energy rather than impulse.

Ok so an issue like this wont exist no more
https://youtu.be/dZM29oS7CcA
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 23, 2020, 03:18:19 PM
Parts can still break off.  This includes the spinner itself.

My plan for spinners is that upon a hit, both the spinner and the target take damage.

If the target is invulnerable, then all of the damage goes to the spinner.

Otherwise, damage will be distributed based on the current health of the spinner and the target.  If the spinner has more health than the target, then the target will take a larger fraction of the energy as damage.  The opposite is also true.  If the spinner has very little health, it will take most of the damage and will very likely break off.

Here's what I have:

float selfRatio = target.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float targetRatio = selfDO.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float selfActualDamage = selfDO.takeDamage(damage * selfRatio);
                float targetActualDamage = target.takeDamage(damage * targetRatio);

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Sage on February 24, 2020, 06:13:11 AM
ya but can you sload in this game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2020, 09:10:40 AM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 24, 2020, 10:03:52 AM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful

Oh yeah, how will axes do damage?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2020, 10:55:10 AM
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 24, 2020, 11:13:55 AM
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Yeah well considering that axes mostly do internal damage and mostly dent armor in, maybe that could be taken into consideration?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2020, 12:49:43 PM
Parts can still break off.  This includes the spinner itself.

My plan for spinners is that upon a hit, both the spinner and the target take damage.

If the target is invulnerable, then all of the damage goes to the spinner.

Otherwise, damage will be distributed based on the current health of the spinner and the target.  If the spinner has more health than the target, then the target will take a larger fraction of the energy as damage.  The opposite is also true.  If the spinner has very little health, it will take most of the damage and will very likely break off.

Here's what I have:

float selfRatio = target.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float targetRatio = selfDO.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float selfActualDamage = selfDO.takeDamage(damage * selfRatio);
                float targetActualDamage = target.takeDamage(damage * targetRatio);

In practice the above damage model is pretty terrible.  A big heavy spinner will absolutely dominate a spinner made out of smaller pieces without taking any damage itself. 

My Tombclone is just mercilessly destroying Circumvolution.  I don't like that.  I want to reward people for building beautiful creations that work well, not the big dumb box with ton o' health.

Back to the drawing board...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 24, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
Parts can still break off.  This includes the spinner itself.

My plan for spinners is that upon a hit, both the spinner and the target take damage.

If the target is invulnerable, then all of the damage goes to the spinner.

Otherwise, damage will be distributed based on the current health of the spinner and the target.  If the spinner has more health than the target, then the target will take a larger fraction of the energy as damage.  The opposite is also true.  If the spinner has very little health, it will take most of the damage and will very likely break off.

Here's what I have:

float selfRatio = target.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float targetRatio = selfDO.health / (selfDO.health + target.health);
                float selfActualDamage = selfDO.takeDamage(damage * selfRatio);
                float targetActualDamage = target.takeDamage(damage * targetRatio);

In practice the above damage model is pretty terrible.  A big heavy spinner will absolutely dominate a spinner made out of smaller pieces without taking any damage itself. 

My Tombclone is just mercilessly destroying Circumvolution.  I don't like that.  I want to reward people for building beautiful creations that work well, not the big dumb box with ton o' health.

Back to the drawing board...
An option to turn the multi part spinner into a single part spinner? Keep the collision. Also circumvolution is only a 16kg spinner, and at that size its... Not really supposed to be durable
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2020, 06:45:05 PM
I’m getting happy with spinner vs spinner damage now.  Circumvolution wins unless Tombclone takes off its wheels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 24, 2020, 07:09:38 PM
As much as i feel happy about it. I wonder, what are the differences between the weapons weight/kj/inertia/speed wise
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 25, 2020, 03:26:19 AM
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Yeah well considering that axes mostly do internal damage and mostly dent armor in, maybe that could be taken into consideration?

I was going to email about this, but might aswell mention it here haha!

I was thinking robot health should now be determined by the health of the control board. Obviously once armour panels have been knocked off, any direct hits would cause massive damage and immobilize a robot instantly (therefore giving crushers/axes/spikes/drills a fighting chance) but I thought this could then be worked around by players just hoarding a bunch of armour shapes around their control boards (which I know isn't unusual for real life robots, but even so). So on top of damage health, what about 'Impact' health? The more velocity & KJ's a control board is put under from impacts according to the parts around it, the more damage it takes? Therefore flippers, hammers, rammers, ect. also have a fighting chance.

And of course heat damage from any flamethrowers/CO2 vents ;)

If we still want to get rid of the health bars aswell, we could always do a variation of the LED component which changes colour/flashes according to the control boards health? (So Green=Good health, Amber=Sustained Damage, Red=Low Health, Flashing Red=Health Warning, Off=Robot immobilized). It wouldn't be too dissimilar to how robots IRL require power LED's.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2020, 05:44:02 AM
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Yeah well considering that axes mostly do internal damage and mostly dent armor in, maybe that could be taken into consideration?

I was going to email about this, but might aswell mention it here haha!

I was thinking robot health should now be determined by the health of the control board. Obviously once armour panels have been knocked off, any direct hits would cause massive damage and immobilize a robot instantly (therefore giving crushers/axes/spikes/drills a fighting chance) but I thought this could then be worked around by players just hoarding a bunch of armour shapes around their control boards (which I know isn't unusual for real life robots, but even so). So on top of damage health, what about 'Impact' health? The more velocity & KJ's a control board is put under from impacts according to the parts around it, the more damage it takes? Therefore flippers, hammers, rammers, ect. also have a fighting chance.

And of course heat damage from any flamethrowers/CO2 vents ;)

If we still want to get rid of the health bars aswell, we could always do a variation of the LED component which changes colour/flashes according to the control boards health? (So Green=Good health, Amber=Sustained Damage, Red=Low Health, Flashing Red=Health Warning, Off=Robot immobilized). It wouldn't be too dissimilar to how robots IRL require power LED's.

Maybe it is just semantics, but robots don’t typically have a “control board”.  Do you mean the radio receiver?  This is and the battery/electrical distribution system would be the single points of failure in our robots,
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 25, 2020, 06:24:04 AM
I think he meant cb just for simplicity's sake, the distribution system got me thinking. I assume that we will be able to power individual motors with individual receivers, and batteries, so if a weapon battery bursts and eventually dies, the weapon will just stop functioning, same goes with receiver
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2020, 07:06:30 AM
I think he meant cb just for simplicity's sake, the distribution system got me thinking. I assume that we will be able to power individual motors with individual receivers, and batteries, so if a weapon battery bursts and eventually dies, the weapon will just stop functioning, same goes with receiver

A typical electronics setup would be
Radio transmitter-> radio receiver

Motors are not powered by the receiver.  They are powered by speed controllers (ESCs).  The speed controllers for each motor get power from a single battery system, and a control signal from the radio receiver. 

If you knock out the radio receiver, the robot shuts down.  If you knock out power, the robot shuts down.  If you knock out anything else, you will only disable one motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 25, 2020, 08:53:14 AM
I was actually thinking of the Speed Controller. Afterall, that is the main central hub where all of the robot is connected to. If that goes, then all motors, batteries, and receivers have nothing to feed off of.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2020, 09:08:50 AM
I was actually thinking of the Speed Controller. Afterall, that is the main central hub where all of the robot is connected to. If that goes, then all motors, batteries, and receivers have nothing to feed off of.

Ahh.  I see.  We use separate speed controllers for each motor on our robots.  We can combine speed controllers, but the maximum I am familiar with are 3-channel speed controllers.  This would work for three motors, but many designs use more than three motors.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2020, 09:44:39 AM
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 25, 2020, 09:53:30 AM
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.

Agreed! Love this idea!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 25, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.

Agreed! Love this idea!

Yup this would be very well to have.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
We would need to figure out the UI for parallel vs series batteries.  For example, if someone were using LiPo batteries and wanted 33.3 volts with enough capacity to last the match, they might want:

9S / 4P

That means a total of 36 cells to get the required voltage and Amp-Hour capacity.  Oof.  We are going to have to think about how the UI is going to work for this...

For reference, we will need to build something like the Team Tentacle Amp-Hour calculator into the game:

http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm (http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 25, 2020, 06:27:47 PM
Also circumvolution is only a 16kg spinner, and at that size its... Not really supposed to be durable

I don't know anything about Circumvolution (tried Googling it and nothing came up), but one of Tombstone's blades weighs around 30 kg alone, so I think it would make sense for a 16 kg bot to be OHKO'd by that weapon.

If a robot simulator is desired, I definitely think that OHKOs should be a thing, but I understand if certain bot building limitations make it hard to design a bot to prevent that from happening.  I imagine one would have to design a frame, the way the frame is bolted or welded together, how the body plates attach to the frame, etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 25, 2020, 07:20:54 PM
Also circumvolution is only a 16kg spinner, and at that size its... Not really supposed to be durable

I don't know anything about Circumvolution (tried Googling it and nothing came up), but one of Tombstone's blades weighs around 30 kg alone, so I think it would make sense for a 16 kg bot to be OHKO'd by that weapon.

If a robot simulator is desired, I definitely think that OHKOs should be a thing, but I understand if certain bot building limitations make it hard to design a bot to prevent that from happening.  I imagine one would have to design a frame, the way the frame is bolted or welded together, how the body plates attach to the frame, etc.
Circumvolution isn’t a replica, it’s an RR2 bot made by Cyar Skirata.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on February 26, 2020, 01:49:07 AM
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 26, 2020, 06:14:06 AM
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.

That is intentional.  The 3 inch wheels were meant as temporary stand-ins for the foam wheels used in US antweight kits like the Fingertech Viper.  They weigh almost nothing.  If you wanted to use one with an actual heavyweight, it would just be a foam decoration, completely ripping off at the slightest touch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 26, 2020, 06:39:36 AM
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.

That is intentional.  The 3 inch wheels were meant as temporary stand-ins for the foam wheels used in US antweight kits like the Fingertech Viper.  They weigh almost nothing.  If you wanted to use one with an actual heavyweight, it would just be a foam decoration, completely ripping off at the slightest touch.
but what if i have to use it on a hw?
Will there be an option?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 26, 2020, 07:02:39 AM
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 26, 2020, 07:10:19 AM
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Yeah I think the issue with the health of the new wheels (not the 3 inch foam one) is that the weight of a 3x3x3 scaled rim is not even .1 kg, but the tires at that scale are like 16 kg.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 26, 2020, 07:23:03 AM
Yeah I'm aware.... I'm still trying to find a good base line for all stats on the parts (low level and high level) then ratio them across all parts. But there's been some other things being developed that have taken my attention away from that for the time being. It will be done though! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 26, 2020, 08:58:00 AM
Oh yea btw, when can i expect the next update? I am hosting a tournament that has something that is a secret.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 26, 2020, 11:12:36 AM
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Yeah I think the issue with the health of the new wheels (not the 3 inch foam one) is that the weight of a 3x3x3 scaled rim is not even .1 kg, but the tires at that scale are like 16 kg.
Therefore I set the rims as decorations.;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Sage on February 26, 2020, 12:35:16 PM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful


bruh rude
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 26, 2020, 12:44:16 PM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful


bruh rude
Not false tho, is it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 26, 2020, 12:58:21 PM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful


bruh rude

I am curious what it meant though.  I assume from the context that it was something people did to improve the game. 

Even though the act of "sloading" might not be relevant to RR2, it is helpful for me to understand what the original problem was that people were trying to solve.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 26, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful


bruh rude

I am curious what it meant though.  I assume from the context that it was something people did to improve the game. 

Even though the act of "sloading" might not be relevant to RR2, it is helpful for me to understand what the original problem was that people were trying to solve.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t sloading (snapper loading?) a way to get components in weird places in ra2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 26, 2020, 08:13:02 PM
Btw is the next update coming? There are too many small issues with the latest build which makes it inconvenient to play for several days.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 26, 2020, 09:06:18 PM
I'm just fine with playing with the build that came before this one.  I don't make it a habit of downloading and working with the latest one each time in case something breaks.  After all, the lead dev seems to have school to focus on.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on February 26, 2020, 09:11:27 PM
ya but can you sload in this game

Pardon my ignorance, but what does it mean to “sload”?

Boomer ra2 term that is obsolete and not useful


bruh rude

I am curious what it meant though.  I assume from the context that it was something people did to improve the game. 

Even though the act of "sloading" might not be relevant to RR2, it is helpful for me to understand what the original problem was that people were trying to solve.

There are two parts to designing a competitive robot in RA2. One part is the actual theory and engineering that goes into designing an effective competitive robot. The other part is using highly convoluted and arcane glitches to construct said robot, allowing you to make designs that would otherwise be impossible. Snapper loading is one of those glitches.

Here's a pretty well-sited 2008 boomer video of Sage (the boomer up above) using snapper loading to place objects: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DxRxaNZmeo

The tl;dr of this is that snapper loading (particularly snapper loading + eFFe) allows you to create robots with intersecting parts, e.g. cram lots of weapons together or have weapons going through a plow, etc. Afaik RR2 allows everything to intersect, so none of this matters and there is no problem.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 27, 2020, 01:43:08 AM
I'm just fine with playing with the build that came before this one.  I don't make it a habit of downloading and working with the latest one each time in case something breaks.  After all, the lead dev seems to have school to focus on.
Well, If you want to join in the community, make better bots and enter tournaments then you have to catch up with the latest build. And if bots should be broken, that would be just inevitable, else you can still get back to use the early version.

Also I just want to get sure if it's gotta be a moment before next build, not urging, cuz many big things may gonna happen in the game which I really look forward to.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 06:12:30 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I’m trying to get one out today.

I’m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 27, 2020, 06:47:02 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I’m trying to get one out today.

I’m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Yay! Bugfixes! (No I’m not being sarcastic)


About the AMT, any updates?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 06:51:45 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I%u2019m trying to get one out today.

I%u2019m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Yay! Bugfixes! (No I%u2019m not being sarcastic)


About the AMT, any updates?

Lets say that yall need to prepare your unity knowledge

As for the wobble, maybe the axle is the reason of teleportation?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 27, 2020, 06:57:26 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I%u2019m trying to get one out today.

I%u2019m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Yay! Bugfixes! (No I%u2019m not being sarcastic)


About the AMT, any updates?

Lets say that yall need to prepare your unity knowledge

As for the wobble, maybe the axle is the reason of teleportation?
Ah, crap. I have no unity knowledge. :/ Ah, well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 06:58:12 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I%u2019m trying to get one out today.

I%u2019m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Yay! Bugfixes! (No I%u2019m not being sarcastic)


About the AMT, any updates?

Lets say that yall need to prepare your unity knowledge

As for the wobble, maybe the axle is the reason of teleportation?
Ah, crap. I have no unity knowledge. :/ Ah, well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Neither have i ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 27, 2020, 06:59:25 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I%u2019m trying to get one out today.

I%u2019m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.
Yay! Bugfixes! (No I%u2019m not being sarcastic)


About the AMT, any updates?

Lets say that yall need to prepare your unity knowledge

As for the wobble, maybe the axle is the reason of teleportation?
Ah, crap. I have no unity knowledge. :/ Ah, well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Neither have i ;)
I can’t wait!!!!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 07:00:34 AM

There are two parts to designing a competitive robot in RA2. One part is the actual theory and engineering that goes into designing an effective competitive robot. The other part is using highly convoluted and arcane glitches to construct said robot, allowing you to make designs that would otherwise be impossible. Snapper loading is one of those glitches.

Here's a pretty well-sited 2008 boomer video of Sage (the boomer up above) using snapper loading to place objects:

The tl;dr of this is that snapper loading (particularly snapper loading + eFFe) allows you to create robots with intersecting parts, e.g. cram lots of weapons together or have weapons going through a plow, etc. Afaik RR2 allows everything to intersect, so none of this matters and there is no problem.

Thank you for this!

Just for the record, we do intend to start creating restrictions on part placement at some point.  For example, you shouldn’t be able to place a motor inside another motor.

The sloading question was actually a great question at its core.  Although the word “sloading” is specific to RA2, I foresee a similar issue arising with RR2.  It all comes down to how we handle it though.  Maybe an option in settings to allow components to intersect that is off by default?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on February 27, 2020, 07:02:07 AM

There are two parts to designing a competitive robot in RA2. One part is the actual theory and engineering that goes into designing an effective competitive robot. The other part is using highly convoluted and arcane glitches to construct said robot, allowing you to make designs that would otherwise be impossible. Snapper loading is one of those glitches.

Here's a pretty well-sited 2008 boomer video of Sage (the boomer up above) using snapper loading to place objects:

The tl;dr of this is that snapper loading (particularly snapper loading + eFFe) allows you to create robots with intersecting parts, e.g. cram lots of weapons together or have weapons going through a plow, etc. Afaik RR2 allows everything to intersect, so none of this matters and there is no problem.

Thank you for this!

Just for the record, we do intend to start creating restrictions on part placement at some point.  For example, you shouldn’t be able to place a motor inside another motor.

The sloading question was actually a great question at its core.  No “sloading” is specific to RA2, but I foresee a similar issue arising with RR2.  It all comes down to how we handle it though.  Maybe an option in settings to allow components to intersect that is off by default?
Good idea. Or you could leave it as it is and Have a setting that highlights intersections
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 07:02:30 AM
The AMT won’t take a whole lot of Unity knowledge.  You should be able to handle it if you are comfortable in any 3D modeling tool like Blender.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 07:55:48 AM
The AMT won’t take a whole lot of Unity knowledge.  You should be able to handle it if you are comfortable in any 3D modeling tool like Blender.
No chris thats false, the animations are pita, i can PM you the hell
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 07:58:26 AM
The AMT won’t take a whole lot of Unity knowledge.  You should be able to handle it if you are comfortable in any 3D modeling tool like Blender.
No chris thats false, the animations are pita, i can PM you the hell

Sorry about that!

I stand corrected.  I haven’t tried it myself.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 07:59:47 AM
The AMT won%u2019t take a whole lot of Unity knowledge.  You should be able to handle it if you are comfortable in any 3D modeling tool like Blender.
No chris thats false, the animations are pita, i can PM you the hell

Sorry about that!

I stand corrected.  I haven%u2019t tried it myself.

I honestly dont know how you managed to do animations for test arena as mine, animations just straight reset after a second
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 09:16:09 AM
Sorry for the delay!  I’m trying to get one out today.

I’m not satisfied with spinner imbalancing.  It is creating a really bad teleporting wobble when you knock something off the spinner.  So far my fixes have created more problems than they have solved.  I do have one more thing to try though.

Found a bug.  Now I need to trace it to its core and squash the bug.

I'm really hoping to get this build out today!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 12:38:38 PM
It turns out the mass of the objects broken off are being incorrectly calculated.  Sometimes this results in the mass remaining to be zero even when there is stuff still attached.  I need to rework this.

I'm still hoping to get a build out in the next few hours...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 03:57:04 PM
New build is up! 27February2020:

http://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (http://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

TONS OF NEW COMPONENTS!

[Updates in the February 27th Build]

[Added] Added 3 new arenas.  They were all built using the Arena Modding Tool:

-School Tournament Arena

-Parking Lot

-The Twisted Circus

[Added] First batch of new Weapon's components + modifications to pre existing ones in accordance to new component factors. Many more new weapons + extras to come!​

[Added] New component types and category buttons for weapons (piercing/spinning/swinging/misc) and extras (lighting/decorative/misc).​

[Added] Added the option to copy values from other components in the materials section of the botlab.​

[Added] Now components can be set as scalable, materiable and tintable from the inspector.​

[Added] Hotkeys added:
-Increase/decrease scale factor.
-Toggle local/absolute movement of components.
-Toggle on/off movement of components attached to the selected component when scaling it. Changed the hotkey system a bit:
-By defalue hotkeys don't activate if the mouse left mouse button is held, this is to avoid problematic behaviours that can occur if some hotkeys are activated when dragging stuff. -Even hotkeys that attached to buttons and other interactables now get raycasted to see if they are covered, before they could be activated when the screen was covered by popups creating problems. This check can be deactivated for non problematic functions.

[Added] Added hotkeys for the materials and controls tabs. Fixed the move through tabs hotkeys not activating. Now component/material/brushes lists use an actual scroll rect and have scroll bars.

[Replaced] Replaced existing spinner damage with an entirely new damage model.  Take a look!

[Removed] Removed all other forms of damage.

[Tweaked] Reduced the axle mass of all of the motors to .00001 kg. The axle mass is no longer a useful quantity. Any mass here artificially inflates the mass of the robot without any benefit.  You should notice that the mass of your existing robots has dropped slightly.  Yay!​

[Bug Fix] Fixed the teleporting spinner bug. This was caused by the massOfBrokenOffObject was incorrectly computed, causing a spinner's mass to erroneously be set to 0, even when it had parts remaining.​

 [Bug Fix] The erroneously low MOI and KE values in the telemetry display have been fixed.​

​[Bug Fix] Fixed all (???) instances of components not breaking off all of their children with themselves.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed the problem with the new A40-300 having transmission components attach at 90°.

[Bug Fix] Amended: A40-300 motor's attachment has been fixed to pure 0 to eliminate wobble. Brushless motors attachment points have been enlarged to make them easier to attach to.​​​

[Bug Fix] Amended the A40-300 motor. Now spins in the right direction. I managed to fix where the gearbox attaches aswell, but I should probably mention this is due to the boxes now attaching to the hinge joint NOT the actual attachment point. If you also tilt the motor to an angle non-90 then attach a gearbox, the gearbox attaches at a 90 degree angle.

[Bug Fix] Fixed visibility of "Developer Only" components so that they now only show in the editor instead of in the built game.​​



A FEW CAVEATS ABOUT THIS BUILD

Damage System - The new damage system is in place for SPINNERS ONLY.  Nothing else causes damage right now.
AI - Still mostly broken.  For the most part all the AI does is turn on its weapon at the beginning of the match and keep driving at the nearest opponent.  Once the new damage system has been straightened out we will redesign AI around the new approach to damage.
House Robots - Once the game is mature enough we will be replacing all of the house robots with ones built in the robot workshop.  Any bugs that exist in the current robots will be completely replaced by entirely new bugs at that time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 04:22:23 PM
One thing i have noticed that the bots are bigger in size

Maybe thats not a bad thing, maybe the arenas then need to be just upscaled

One thing i did notice that on the new A40 motors, axles with wheels go to centre xyz position in the test area
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 04:31:38 PM
Drat!  I missed that!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 04:34:24 PM
How fast can you dish out a fix?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 04:34:50 PM
How fast can you dish out a fix?

12 hours?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 04:40:11 PM
Ok another thing i noticed, The spinner mass is nonexistant, you can make a 25 kilo bar, but the game will calculate only like up to a kilo of the weapon

Footage:
https://youtu.be/6iDs1n39vLs
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 04:45:54 PM
Hmm.  I swore I had fixed this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development (EDIT)
Post by: kix on February 27, 2020, 04:48:06 PM

Hey its all ok, as long as we can help you by finding this stuff out


After some investigation, the bot scaling is not the same anymore, its seems like a bot may be bigger than it is in the robot selection for battle menu:

In this pic, megabyte isnt as big as Bronco:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/682723789544620032/unknown.png)

In this pic, its not the case at all:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/682724298959487055/unknown.png)

Seems like spinners scale up




Another find is that the flipper piston is much weaker than it used to be
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on February 27, 2020, 07:01:32 PM

There are two parts to designing a competitive robot in RA2. One part is the actual theory and engineering that goes into designing an effective competitive robot. The other part is using highly convoluted and arcane glitches to construct said robot, allowing you to make designs that would otherwise be impossible. Snapper loading is one of those glitches.

Here's a pretty well-sited 2008 boomer video of Sage (the boomer up above) using snapper loading to place objects:

The tl;dr of this is that snapper loading (particularly snapper loading + eFFe) allows you to create robots with intersecting parts, e.g. cram lots of weapons together or have weapons going through a plow, etc. Afaik RR2 allows everything to intersect, so none of this matters and there is no problem.

Thank you for this!

Just for the record, we do intend to start creating restrictions on part placement at some point.  For example, you shouldn’t be able to place a motor inside another motor.

The sloading question was actually a great question at its core.  Although the word “sloading” is specific to RA2, I foresee a similar issue arising with RR2.  It all comes down to how we handle it though.  Maybe an option in settings to allow components to intersect that is off by default?

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff (you know, dreaming about my ideal robot game), and here's my idea.

Clearly motors / batteries / control boards and such cannot intersect with each other in any case. Weapons and extenders / plates / armors should be able to intersect, but only if they are on the same axis as each other. This means that weapons coming off of two different motors should not intersect, neither can they with a weapon coming off the chassis, but 2+ weapons on the same motor can and weapons coming off the chassis can.

Though this seems to make a lot of sense, there are still a lot of more complicated issues from here to solve. For example, suppose a weapon intersects the path of a spinning bar. One way to handle this is to sweep the hitboxes of all items attached to spinners into disks, this way the hitbox is the entire path or where the component could be at any time. This applies both when trying to attach the bar and when trying to place components in the path of the bar, and this way no parts ever intersect. An alternative solution would be to allow things to intersect paths, but allow the robot to have internal physics with itself so that the weapons collide with each other like in real life.

Another thing to consider is that in RA2, we actually allow weapons to cut through armor as long as the plate / chassis is not completely bisected by the path, because theoretically you could cut holes in the parts. I'm thinking this is less of an issue in RR2 though, because we have enough control to mold things to whatever shape we want (e.g. its realistic now).

Edit: Having the ability in-game to allow all intersections would definitely be nice though. The equivalent in RA2 is using the sergepatcher hack. An even more advanced idea would be to make it so that you select the build mode when first creating the robot, and then this sticks with the bot as a certificate for legality in tournaments, or validation could be handled separately by checking for collisions.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 27, 2020, 08:12:08 PM
Fixing the following:

1. Restoring the flipper piston to its previous torque value.
2. Fixing the problem with the incorrect mass of spinners in the telemetry screen.
3. Fixing the robot size/scaling problem.

I'm heading to bed, but should be able to push a new build in the morning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2020, 03:11:25 AM
New build is up! 28February2020:

http://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (http://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

This build mostly just fixes the scaling bugs introduced in the 27February2020 build and pointed out by kix.  The scaling factor was based on weight of the robot and was designed to address some physics issues we were seeing that were more severe at the lower weight classes.  The physics issues were caused by improper COM calculation.  COM was fixed, but the scaling factor was not completely removed until this build.

​[Added] Added sorting options for the list of components: - A-Z and Z-A : should be self explanatory, it uses natural sorting (numbers are compared by their value not alphabetically). -Weight: also self explanatory, for components that can change their material the default material is used. -Size: it calculates the bounding box of the entire component (based on colliders), then the dimensions of the bounding box are added and that is the value that is used to sort the list.​

[Bug Fix] Restored the flipper piston to its previous torque value.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the problem with the incorrect mass of spinners in the telemetry screen.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the robot size/scaling problem.​
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 28, 2020, 03:28:59 AM
I forgot to mention it (and I can't check if it's made the final build) but I also added a new material to armours which will 'Remove' a panel.

So now if you have a robot with a cut out section / space for weaponry, ect., you can now 'remove' that armour panel on the chassis. This hugely saves on weight and looks a lot more realistic.

I also wanna hear from y'all - I'm working on a bunch of new 'Extra' components; mainly the kind of tat you'd use to decorate a robot. (Bulbous eyeballs, googly eyes, plastic skulls & spiders, foil windmills, rainbow feather dusters, ect).

I have a large number of items already done, but is there anything you would like to see added? Taking suggestions! (And before anyone suggests 'Text/Lettering' or 'Decals', I already have some ideas in work for this ;) ).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 28, 2020, 03:41:49 AM
Another thing to consider is that in RA2, we actually allow weapons to cut through armor as long as the plate / chassis is not completely bisected by the path, because theoretically you could cut holes in the parts. I'm thinking this is less of an issue in RR2 though, because we have enough control to mold things to whatever shape we want (e.g. its realistic now).

Well for my tournaments im pretty much requiring from people to actually have holes in designs, or even fake ones. Maybe if we had a component that allows intersection of a component that reduces weight as it is scaled?


Oh i also made RG arena but thats another can of worms
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 28, 2020, 04:00:22 AM
Chris you forgot to fix the A40-300 Axle issue


Okay, you said that a bot with many parts on a spinner will oulast a bot with one part for a spinner health wise

I find that hard to believe as small parts that act as spinner teeth that weight about 2 kilos on 50 steel shear off after a hit. Again, cant you just fuse all parts together with combined HP when in a match? Because atm i cant use these last 2 builds for tournament
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2020, 07:45:07 AM
kix,

I’m at our real-life robotics competition today and tomorrow, so I won’t be able to do much fixing.  I can re-enable an older build on itch.io though. Is there a particular build that I should enable for your tournament?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 28, 2020, 07:58:19 AM
kix,

I’m at our real-life robotics competition today and tomorrow, so I won’t be able to do much fixing.  I can re-enable an older build on itch.io though. Is there a particular build that I should enable for your tournament?

Well i do have 16th feb build as i keep backups, but yeah atm thats the best option

Good luck at the tournament btw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2020, 08:29:39 AM
I just enabled downloads on the 16February build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 28, 2020, 07:39:47 PM
I noticed with the latest build that the blade-to-gear axle connection on my custom bar spinner is very weak.  Then again, it is also capable of spinning up to 200 kJ in less than 20 seconds.  Is there something I'm missing durability-wise?  It's actually a 67 kg bar  :confused:

Actually in general, I noticed that all components seem much weaker, even the internal ones like the motors and batteries.  They seem like they break off a lot more easily, which is awesome!  But I'd think the weapons would be a little more robust.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 29, 2020, 03:28:42 AM
The new arenas are awesome! Also the sliders inside the workshop makes it much more convenient to build high-customed-part-bots, really appreciate this one. And there're some issues imo of this new build.

The bots are not back to original size, but slightly smaller than those in previous builds. Maybe it's for other purpose but Idk.

Those new weapons look nice, but the weight might not be that suitable. 10kg for a flywheel, 0.5kg for an axe is a bit too fragile and lacking of energy. Resizing is still not enough. If we could tweak the material thickness of them that would be better.

The damage is unrealistically high in the new build, bots seems to be fragile as plastic, which makes me have to tweak the damage slider to 5%, but even so the small weapon parts like spinner teeth still easily fall off.

Also the bouncing problem of new custom wheels is getting more severe. And bots keep give out noises while driving.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 07:03:16 AM
The new arenas are awesome! Also the sliders inside the workshop makes it much more convenient to build high-customed-part-bots, really appreciate this one. And there're some issues imo of this new build.

The bots are not back to original size, but slightly smaller than those in previous builds. Maybe it's for other purpose but Idk.

Those new weapons look nice, but the weight might not be that suitable. 10kg for a flywheel, 0.5kg for an axe is a bit too fragile and lacking of energy. Resizing is still not enough. If we could tweak the material thickness of them that would be better.

The damage is unrealistically high in the new build, bots seems to be fragile as plastic, which makes me have to tweak the damage slider to 5%, but even so the small weapon parts like spinner teeth still easily fall off.

Also the bouncing problem of new custom wheels is getting more severe. And bots keep give out noises while driving.

Glad you like the sliders!  Those are Whammet and tashic’s work.

The bots are actually back to their original, realistic sizes.  They haven’t been correctly sized for about 12 months now.  I introduced an upscaling factor a looong time ago to attempt to solve beetleweight driving problems. It turns out the root cause of the problem had nothing to do with scale (but it was exacerbated in tiny robots). The root cause has been fixed, so the size scaling factor has been removed.  What you see now is to the correct scale.

I’ll let Whammet tackle the new components.

Noted about damage.  I’m at our school competition now.  There are about 30 spinners here.  Things definitely aren’t breaking as readily as my damage model would suggest.  Granted, these robots are only 85 pounds and not as powerful, but still.

I didn’t realize there was a bouncing problem with the wheels.  Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file?

Thank you for all of the great feedback!  I feel like we are so close on this!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 07:08:59 AM
I noticed with the latest build that the blade-to-gear axle connection on my custom bar spinner is very weak.  Then again, it is also capable of spinning up to 200 kJ in less than 20 seconds.  Is there something I'm missing durability-wise?  It's actually a 67 kg bar  :confused:

Actually in general, I noticed that all components seem much weaker, even the internal ones like the motors and batteries.  They seem like they break off a lot more easily, which is awesome!  But I'd think the weapons would be a little more robust.

I agree.  I’m looking at the damage one of our robot’s wheels took from their last fight from a drum spinner.  Both wheels cracked (two separate hits) rather than breaking outright.  The in-game model would have them ripping off from a hit from an A28-400-powered 20-pound drum at 1:1 gear ratio and 24 volts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 29, 2020, 07:49:57 AM
There are some issues with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

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I've talked about this issue at P93 before, and ya, it still exists. And here's a more obvious example.
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Btw, we kinda have demands of the size scaling factor cuz we've made numbers of bots that are normal-sized in previous builds but now they are slightly a bot small. Also some replicas has many tiny detailings that we cannot make the bot small. It might take us a long as time to rescale them, but with the scale factor we can save a great amount of time rescaling them. It's like, it can rescale all the components that are able to resize(like chassis and all customed stuff) together with other components like motors, batteries and default wheels etc stay unchanged. Would it be something that can be realized?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 29, 2020, 10:05:08 AM
Just gonna quickly add I won't be tackling the damage/health of any parts atm as I don't have a trustable point for reference.

Weights will be a slow burn but I'll get them out eventually :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 11:48:43 AM
There are some issues with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
I've talked about this issue at P93 before, and ya, it still exists. And here's a more obvious example.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Btw, we kinda have demands of the size scaling factor cuz we've made numbers of bots that are normal-sized in previous builds but now they are slightly a bot small. Also some replicas has many tiny detailings that we cannot make the bot small. It might take us a long as time to rescale them, but with the scale factor we can save a great amount of time rescaling them. It's like, it can rescale all the components that are able to resize(like chassis and all customed stuff) together with other components like motors, batteries and default wheels etc stay unchanged. Would it be something that can be realized?

I'll take a look tomorrow, but I'm not quite sure I understand the problem.

1. Scaling has been broken for a while.  This build fixes that.
2. What you make in the robot workshop now matches the scale of the arena.  What you see in the workshop is what you get.  This wasn't true before.  The "Normal" you saw before was wrong.  Robots were scaled inconsistently in the arena based on their weight.  That is fixed now.
3. You shouldn't need to rescale anything.  Everything should be as it was before, just now correctly sized in the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 11:53:24 AM
What he meant, is that you could scale the whole bot incl components at the same time with one slider. Something like a Scale factor when youre making a custom part.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
Hmmm.  That would be kind of weird to implement.  Some things can be scaled while others can’t.  Things would definitely come out looking strange.  Here’s an example:

1. I create a robot that has batteries arranged in a brick.  Each battery is immediately adjacent to the next battery.
2. I scale the robot down.  Batteries can’t scale down.  Now the batteries are overlapping each other.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 12:05:48 PM
Hmmm.  That would be kind of weird to implement.  Some things can be scaled while others can’t.  Things would definitely come out looking strange.  Here’s an example:

1. I create a robot that has batteries arranged in a brick.  Each battery is immediately adjacent to the next battery.
2. I scale the robot down.  Batteries can’t scale down.  Now the batteries are overlapping each other.

Players can easily move them, If they need to scale down, they do need to take that into consideration
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 12:13:40 PM
Or another case:

1. I make a drivetrain with motors, wheels, and gearboxes.
2. I scale the robot up.
3. Now the wheels don’t reach the ground, and they are completely inside the chassis.

There is all sorts of weirdness that would occur with a scale slider because some components are not scalable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on February 29, 2020, 12:13:58 PM
We know that, but moving batteries and motors is a thousand times easier than rescaling the whole bot.

For example a bot has 600+ colliders, but only no more than 20 of them are unscalable stuffs. And the rest 500+ has to be rescaled and reconnected accurately like the original one.

Also, if we don't use the scaling factor, we still need to move those unscalable things to right position. It doesn't make any difference, but if we got that scaling factor, we can easily finish the rescaling part.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 01:19:28 PM
Or another case:

1. I make a drivetrain with motors, wheels, and gearboxes.
2. I scale the robot up.
3. Now the wheels don’t reach the ground, and they are completely inside the chassis.

There is all sorts of weirdness that would occur with a scale slider because some components are not scalable.

Id rather move the motors/belts and batteries in 5 minutes than rescaling the whole bot with 200+ parts in 40 minutes
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 01:30:37 PM
Also, please understand that if you scale your 110 kg robot up you won’t make weight.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 01:35:18 PM
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 01:38:04 PM
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.
Again, we are aware of that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 01:43:43 PM
I guess I still don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish.  What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?  Things are now scaled correctly.  Whatever looks right in the workshop now matches what you see in the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 29, 2020, 01:46:32 PM
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.
That still only takes like 5 minutes to fix. Rescaling each individual part takes 10x longer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 01:47:04 PM
I guess I still don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish.  What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?  Things are now scaled correctly.  Whatever looks right in the workshop now matches what you see in the arena.
I dont need to accomplish anything. But it would be a good addition as you can always mess up the scaling while building
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 01:47:16 PM
Maybe a picture would help?

Why do you want to change the scale of the parts?  Aren’t they scaled correctly now?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 29, 2020, 01:49:14 PM
Maybe a picture would help?

Why do you want to change the scale of the parts?  Aren’t they scaled correctly now?
No that’s not what we mean. We’re just saying that in general it would be a nice addition to the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 01:49:55 PM
Maybe a picture would help?

Why do you want to change the scale of the parts?  Aren%u2019t they scaled correctly now?

Again, they all are good, It would be a good thing. Picture this: You are making a rep pack with more people in the team. You end up making a complex bot but it is very small compared to others. Atm arcane is painfully downscaling bots one piece by one which takes him several hours. This feature would help immensely toward people like arcane

I can draw up a sketch
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 29, 2020, 01:56:34 PM
Gotcha!  Sorry.  I’m a little dense.  We can put it on the list.

So you were thinking of building a really big robot in its entirety, then scaling the whole robot down to make weight?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 02:08:51 PM
Gotcha!  Sorry.  I’m a little dense.  We can put it on the list.

So you were thinking of building a really big robot in its entirety, then scaling the whole robot down to make weight?

Possibly, or scaling up
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 29, 2020, 03:22:47 PM
And I'm sure this is obvious now but I'd say it only applies to parts which are 'Is Scaleable = True'. I have to be honest and admit this would be helpful.... When I was building reps finding out you hadn't scaled a robot correctly was incredibly frustrating. And even now as I'm rebuilding the stock robots I could do with scaling some up/down (the new Royal Robby - as an example, could do with being scaled up from how I built it).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 29, 2020, 03:52:36 PM
And I'm sure this is obvious now but I'd say it only applies to parts which are 'Is Scaleable = True'. I have to be honest and admit this would be helpful.... When I was building reps finding out you hadn't scaled a robot correctly was incredibly frustrating. And even now as I'm rebuilding the stock robots I could do with scaling some up/down (the new Royal Robby - as an example, could do with being scaled up from how I built it).
Oh yeah about reps, do you want to join the rep building team over on discord, Wham?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 29, 2020, 04:14:56 PM
And I'm sure this is obvious now but I'd say it only applies to parts which are 'Is Scaleable = True'. I have to be honest and admit this would be helpful.... When I was building reps finding out you hadn't scaled a robot correctly was incredibly frustrating. And even now as I'm rebuilding the stock robots I could do with scaling some up/down (the new Royal Robby - as an example, could do with being scaled up from how I built it).
Oh yeah about reps, do you want to join the rep building team over on discord, Wham?

Thank you for the offer, but literally all of my time is now being spent on this game. Any robots I do create are the new stock robots haha!

I even had to move all my reps to a backup folder so I could focus on the new stocks easier. Maybe once the game is done I'll be able to get back to replicas :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 04:53:33 PM
I genuinley dont even know why did he ask
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 29, 2020, 05:19:48 PM
I genuinley dont even know why did he ask
Because you were too much of a beta male to ask him yourself.  heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 29, 2020, 05:24:47 PM
I genuinley dont even know why did he ask
Because you were too much of a beta male to ask him yourself.  heck

I ****ing did you blind cuck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:25 PM
I genuinley dont even know why did he ask
Because you were too much of a beta male to ask him yourself.  heck

I ****ing did you blind cuck
Lmao I know that I’m just screwing with you
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on February 29, 2020, 05:46:41 PM
Wow... I must say it's been a while since I've gotten this kind of attention... I feel like the GTM Bridget Jones lol
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on February 29, 2020, 11:10:54 PM
While romping around with my bar spinner I straight-up destroyed the opposing robot's Motenergy motor (seen at the bottom of the screen shot).  That's quite the detail with that motor's 3D model!

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The rotor was actually wobbling as it spun down!  Haha I bent that thing up good  heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 01, 2020, 01:47:53 AM
While romping around with my bar spinner I straight-up destroyed the opposing robot's Motenergy motor (seen at the bottom of the screen shot).  That's quite the detail with that motor's 3D model!

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

The rotor was actually wobbling as it spun down!  Haha I bent that thing up good  heck

I am SOOOO glad someone noticed I put in that detail!!

If you look closely at the motor as it’s spinning you should see the inner coil spinning aswell :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 01, 2020, 03:02:20 AM
While romping around with my bar spinner I straight-up destroyed the opposing robot's Motenergy motor (seen at the bottom of the screen shot).  That's quite the detail with that motor's 3D model!

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

The rotor was actually wobbling as it spun down!  Haha I bent that thing up good  heck

I am SOOOO glad someone noticed I put in that detail!!

If you look closely at the motor as it’s spinning you should see the inner coil spinning aswell :)

Ya i see the internal coil, when it spins outside the etek
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on March 01, 2020, 03:56:43 AM
Spinners in Feb28 have something weird going on with their mass or something. My verts start to wheely when their weapons are spinning.

It's by far at its most noticeable with S3. Drive forward with the weapon off, it's fine. Drive forward with the weapon on, and it's more overhead thwackbot than vert.
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 01, 2020, 04:59:41 AM
Spinners in Feb28 have something weird going on with their mass or something. My verts start to wheely when their weapons are spinning.

It's by far at its most noticeable with S3. Drive forward with the weapon off, it's fine. Drive forward with the weapon on, and it's more overhead thwackbot than vert.
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My Monsoon has the same issue which makes me have to gear it really slow to avoid it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2020, 07:00:34 AM
Spinners in Feb28 have something weird going on with their mass or something. My verts start to wheely when their weapons are spinning.

It's by far at its most noticeable with S3. Drive forward with the weapon off, it's fine. Drive forward with the weapon on, and it's more overhead thwackbot than vert.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Is it the reaction torque that occurs when the weapon starts up?

Circumvolution is hard to drive too.  It tends to flip on its back a lot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2020, 09:06:20 AM
I have an idea of what might possibly have changed.  I’m not convinced anything has, but I’m not convinced it hasn’t either.  We are, yet again, in firmly undocumented Unity Physics Land.  I changed the masses of all the rigibodies.  My assumption is that this automatically changed all of the moments of inertia.  It is possible that Unity did not do that.  I will need to do some testing to find out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on March 01, 2020, 01:36:24 PM
Spinners in Feb28 have something weird going on with their mass or something. My verts start to wheely when their weapons are spinning.

It's by far at its most noticeable with S3. Drive forward with the weapon off, it's fine. Drive forward with the weapon on, and it's more overhead thwackbot than vert.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Is it the reaction torque that occurs when the weapon starts up?

Circumvolution is hard to drive too.  It tends to flip on its back a lot.

Nothing about acceleration. You can leave it to spin all the way up and it still flips over.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 01, 2020, 07:35:04 PM
My undercutter bot's weapon worked well in Feb 16th build, but it kept hitting the floor in the new build, even when I geared the driving extremely slow the issue still existed, it just couldn't spin up to full speed.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on March 01, 2020, 08:09:23 PM
It seems like there's definitely something up with my vertical dual-bar spinner.  A combined 400 kJ of energy doesn't seem to do any damage to the opposing bot, yet any collisions made against the opposing bot cause my robot to flip over.  It's almost like no energy is being transferred to the target with the vertical spinners.

It makes me wonder now what would happen if I made it a diagonal spinner...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 06:13:42 AM
It seems like there's definitely something up with my vertical dual-bar spinner.  A combined 400 kJ of energy doesn't seem to do any damage to the opposing bot, yet any collisions made against the opposing bot cause my robot to flip over.  It's almost like no energy is being transferred to the target with the vertical spinners.

It makes me wonder now what would happen if I made it a diagonal spinner...

That might be due to bite.  How many RPM are your bars spinning, and what is their radius?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 02, 2020, 09:27:00 AM
What changes were made to physics? And what was the reason behind it? Feb 16 had it pretty spot on, so I guess I'm just confused as to why that needed adjustments...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 09:51:30 AM
What changes were made to physics? And what was the reason behind it? Feb 16 had it pretty spot on, so I guess I'm just confused as to why that needed adjustments...

Prior to the most 28 February build, there were two scaling factors in robot reconstruction:

1. massScaleFactor - Introduced in the very beginnings of the robot workshop.  This was originally set to 0.1.  We had some difficulties very early on trying to get driving to feel good for heavyweights, so this scale factor was introduced to bring the mass of the chassis down to approximately 10 kg.  This just happened to work well with wheel masses of 1 kg.
2. sizeScaleFactor - Introduced about a year ago when we started focusing on beetleweight driving for Bugglebots.  At the time, I couldn't understand why heavyweights drove fine, but beetleweights would randomly float and flip on their sides with no user input.  The only thing I could do that seemed to have any effect was to increase the scale (but not the mass) of the beetleweights so that they were similar in size to heavyweights.  This created all sorts of problems, so I settled on a scale factor that depended on the weight of the robot, but made typical beetleweights be approximately 1.5 times their original size.

In the 29 February build, I set both mass and size scale factors to 1.  We had found and eliminated the root cause of the problems that the scale factors were designed to address. 

The massScaleFactor created a part management problem where we had to manually adjust component torque and force values.  This was prone to error, and causing all sorts of random problems and inconsistencies now that Wham is creating a bunch of components.

The sizeScaleFactor created a problem where what you saw in the robot workshop didn't match what you saw in the arena.  In general, robots were way too big for the arena.  Moreover, scaling was inconsistent between robots.  One robot's A40-300 motor would be a different size than another robot's A40-300 motor.  This made it very difficult to create arenas at the correct scale when every single robot was scaled differently.

I am confident that eliminating the sizeScaleFactor was the right thing to do.  I am less confident that eliminating the massScaleFactor was the right thing to do, as it has exposed a few more things that I didn't anticipate.  One of them is an interaction with another bit of code that causes vertical spinners to more easily flip backward (Circumvolution and S3).  One of them is the fact that the increased weight is pushing down harder on the wheel joints, causing robots with low clearance to scrape against the floor (Nuclear Crisis).  I think these things are fixable, but it is a work in progress.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 02, 2020, 10:31:44 AM
What changes were made to physics? And what was the reason behind it? Feb 16 had it pretty spot on, so I guess I'm just confused as to why that needed adjustments...

Prior to the most 28 February build, there were two scaling factors in robot reconstruction:

1. massScaleFactor - Introduced in the very beginnings of the robot workshop.  This was originally set to 0.1.  We had some difficulties very early on trying to get driving to feel good for heavyweights, so this scale factor was introduced to bring the mass of the chassis down to approximately 10 kg.  This just happened to work well with wheel masses of 1 kg.
2. sizeScaleFactor - Introduced about a year ago when we started focusing on beetleweight driving for Bugglebots.  At the time, I couldn't understand why heavyweights drove fine, but beetleweights would randomly float and flip on their sides with no user input.  The only thing I could do that seemed to have any effect was to increase the scale (but not the mass) of the beetleweights so that they were similar in size to heavyweights.  This created all sorts of problems, so I settled on a scale factor that depended on the weight of the robot, but made typical beetleweights be approximately 1.5 times their original size.

In the 29 February build, I set both mass and size scale factors to 1.  We had found and eliminated the root cause of the problems that the scale factors were designed to address. 

The massScaleFactor created a part management problem where we had to manually adjust component torque and force values.  This was prone to error, and causing all sorts of random problems and inconsistencies now that Wham is creating a bunch of components.

The sizeScaleFactor created a problem where what you saw in the robot workshop didn't match what you saw in the arena.  In general, robots were way too big for the arena.  Moreover, scaling was inconsistent between robots.  One robot's A40-300 motor would be a different size than another robot's A40-300 motor.  This made it very difficult to create arenas at the correct scale when every single robot was scaled differently.

I am confident that eliminating the sizeScaleFactor was the right thing to do.  I am less confident that eliminating the massScaleFactor was the right thing to do, as it has exposed a few more things that I didn't anticipate.  One of them is an interaction with another bit of code that causes vertical spinners to more easily flip backward (Circumvolution and S3).  One of them is the fact that the increased weight is pushing down harder on the wheel joints, causing robots with low clearance to scrape against the floor (Nuclear Crisis).  I think these things are fixable, but it is a work in progress.
Reason I'm asking is because SvL's arena free-cam might not be compatible with the most stable version of the game, Feb 16. Still crossing my fingers on it, but if not, I'm a little worried about how all the entries will react to the removal of the MassScaleFactor. Hopefully, this all works out in the end and I can get started on filming.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 01:26:32 PM
I'm hammering out bugs now.  I want things to be at least as stable as they were for the 16 January build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 02, 2020, 01:47:25 PM
I think that your number 1 priority would be to fix the A40 motor, it has been an issue for a couple of builds now
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 02:45:11 PM
I think that your number 1 priority would be to fix the A40 motor, it has been an issue for a couple of builds now

Could you send a screenshot?  I'm not seeing the issue in the inspector.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 02, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
I think that your number 1 priority would be to fix the A40 motor, it has been an issue for a couple of builds now

Could you send a screenshot?  I'm not seeing the issue in the inspector.
The one where the axle goes to 0/0/0 location when in test area and the battles
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 03:29:22 PM
I haven’t seen it.  Is it for the old motor or the (new) one?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 02, 2020, 03:41:15 PM
I haven’t seen it.  Is it for the old motor or the (new) one?
New one, try attaching a wheel to the motor that isnt in 0/0/0 position and then go to the test bot section
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
I haven’t seen it.  Is it for the old motor or the (new) one?
New one, try attaching a wheel to the motor that isnt in 0/0/0 position and then go to the test bot section

I see it now.  I have no idea what is causing it.  Definitely will look into it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 02, 2020, 08:57:52 PM
I found something weird  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Where's my disc
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 03, 2020, 05:07:24 AM
Apologies about that - there's still some aspects of the Parking Lot arena I need to fix haha! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 03, 2020, 06:34:48 AM
Something I noticed with the new build is Last Rite’s teeth break on contact with anything. Also, are the physics add riders supposed to be visible? And tick rate is hidden. I think what I’ll try to do is copy the arenas onto 16 February and play that. I love the new arenas though, nice job! :) Keep on developing!
EDIT: I don’t mean to start a flame war. I’m just noting these things.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 03, 2020, 07:09:30 AM
I haven’t seen it.  Is it for the old motor or the (new) one?
New one, try attaching a wheel to the motor that isnt in 0/0/0 position and then go to the test bot section

I see it now.  I have no idea what is causing it.  Definitely will look into it!

When you first added the new motors back in uhh Feb 15 build iirc, they worked with no issues. Also idk size wise, but is NPC really that large compared to Amp A40?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 03, 2020, 10:57:59 AM
We're working on the A40-300 (New) problem.  Still haven't found anything yet.  We don't see anything wrong with the motor prefab.

Here is the drawing for the NPC T64:

http://robotcombat.com/products/images/npc-64038.pdf (http://robotcombat.com/products/images/npc-64038.pdf)

Here is the drawing for the A40-300:

http://www.ampflow.com/a40-300.GIF (http://www.ampflow.com/a40-300.GIF)

They both use the same motor diameter (4 inches), but the T-64 has an integral gearbox that makes it 10 inches long.  The A40-300 does not have a gearbox, so it is only 7 inches long.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 03, 2020, 11:36:12 AM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 03, 2020, 12:13:34 PM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.

Ah i really love this thing you said, maybe you should enable an option to disable breaking stuff off if on an axle

Just out of curiosity. Does the multi part spinner get combined HP as a single component, or does it have the HP of the base part?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 03, 2020, 01:35:14 PM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.

Ah i really love this thing you said, maybe you should enable an option to disable breaking stuff off if on an axle

Just out of curiosity. Does the multi part spinner get combined HP as a single component, or does it have the HP of the base part?

It adds up the total health of the spinner components and consolidates them into a single number.  Right now health = mass * (health per mass of the material).  More mass = more health.

Circumvolution Spinner = 250 health
Tombclone Spinner = 500 health

Tombclone can do thousands of Joules of damage on a single hit, so Circumvolution's spinner is destroyed every single time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 03, 2020, 01:40:59 PM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.

Ah i really love this thing you said, maybe you should enable an option to disable breaking stuff off if on an axle

Just out of curiosity. Does the multi part spinner get combined HP as a single component, or does it have the HP of the base part?

It adds up the total health of the spinner components and consolidates them into a single number.  Right now health = mass * (health per mass of the material).  More mass = more health.

Circumvolution Spinner = 250 health
Tombclone Spinner = 500 health

Tombclone can do thousands of Joules of damage on a single hit, so Circumvolution's spinner is destroyed every single time.

Tbh irl Hori would beat a vert easily. If you are uncomfortable with it you can always add a small HP multiplier
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 03, 2020, 05:45:16 PM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.

Ah i really love this thing you said, maybe you should enable an option to disable breaking stuff off if on an axle

Just out of curiosity. Does the multi part spinner get combined HP as a single component, or does it have the HP of the base part?

It adds up the total health of the spinner components and consolidates them into a single number.  Right now health = mass * (health per mass of the material).  More mass = more health.

Circumvolution Spinner = 250 health
Tombclone Spinner = 500 health

Tombclone can do thousands of Joules of damage on a single hit, so Circumvolution's spinner is destroyed every single time.

Tbh irl Hori would beat a vert easily. If you are uncomfortable with it you can always add a small HP multiplier
Else lower the damage slider to let the fight last longer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on March 03, 2020, 07:19:26 PM
For this next build I have combined spinners into a single damageable object.  This means that the whole spinner will break off together.

My Tombclone will break off Circumvolution's spinner in a single hit every single time.  It makes for really short fights.

Ah i really love this thing you said, maybe you should enable an option to disable breaking stuff off if on an axle

Just out of curiosity. Does the multi part spinner get combined HP as a single component, or does it have the HP of the base part?

It adds up the total health of the spinner components and consolidates them into a single number.  Right now health = mass * (health per mass of the material).  More mass = more health.

Circumvolution Spinner = 250 health
Tombclone Spinner = 500 health

Tombclone can do thousands of Joules of damage on a single hit, so Circumvolution's spinner is destroyed every single time.

Tbh irl Hori would beat a vert easily. If you are uncomfortable with it you can always add a small HP multiplier
Else lower the damage slider to let the fight last longer

I mean, that isn't universal, IRL it depends on the individual spinners and how they meet. In my experience, the only inherent horizontal advantage is more from the way their manoeuvres change where on the weapon's path you're meeting it, since that lets them hit the side of the vert almost every time regardless of the vert's efforts to avoid it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on March 03, 2020, 08:36:35 PM
I'm experiencing a lot of trouble working around rims.  For an example, I'm working on a bot inspired by HUGE and am trying to attach a rod to each rim to prevent immobilization by tipping the whole bot onto its side.  However, I accidentally attached a cylinder shape to the center of the rim, and cannot remove said cylinder shape.  Every time I try to select the cylinder, the workshop selects the rim instead and tells me that I can't delete the rim with components attached to it.  It seems like an issue with bounding boxes and it doesn't matter how big the rim is (I have this issue mounting tires to the rim too).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 03, 2020, 09:13:44 PM
I'm experiencing a lot of trouble working around rims.  For an example, I'm working on a bot inspired by HUGE and am trying to attach a rod to each rim to prevent immobilization by tipping the whole bot onto its side.  However, I accidentally attached a cylinder shape to the center of the rim, and cannot remove said cylinder shape.  Every time I try to select the cylinder, the workshop selects the rim instead and tells me that I can't delete the rim with components attached to it.  It seems like an issue with bounding boxes and it doesn't matter how big the rim is (I have this issue mounting tires to the rim too).
resize the tire on one side or shift+right arrow
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
I'm experiencing a lot of trouble working around rims.  For an example, I'm working on a bot inspired by HUGE and am trying to attach a rod to each rim to prevent immobilization by tipping the whole bot onto its side.  However, I accidentally attached a cylinder shape to the center of the rim, and cannot remove said cylinder shape.  Every time I try to select the cylinder, the workshop selects the rim instead and tells me that I can't delete the rim with components attached to it.  It seems like an issue with bounding boxes and it doesn't matter how big the rim is (I have this issue mounting tires to the rim too).

Unfortunately it is a collision aspect which means all the rims are essentially one solid cylinder. Unity doesn't allow for things such as hollow collisions unless you incorporate a lot of individual collision meshes into one, which cjbruce wants to avoid as it would push the number of active collisions up too high. The best way to do it is to scale parts that get in the way, or if you zoom in close enough to a part you can bypass it's collision and select parts that are inside. Unfortunately this is the only way the game can handle these parts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 04:17:50 AM
I'm experiencing a lot of trouble working around rims.  For an example, I'm working on a bot inspired by HUGE and am trying to attach a rod to each rim to prevent immobilization by tipping the whole bot onto its side.  However, I accidentally attached a cylinder shape to the center of the rim, and cannot remove said cylinder shape.  Every time I try to select the cylinder, the workshop selects the rim instead and tells me that I can't delete the rim with components attached to it.  It seems like an issue with bounding boxes and it doesn't matter how big the rim is (I have this issue mounting tires to the rim too).

Unfortunately it is a collision aspect which means all the rims are essentially one solid cylinder. Unity doesn't allow for things such as hollow collisions unless you incorporate a lot of individual collision meshes into one, which cjbruce wants to avoid as it would push the number of active collisions up too high. The best way to do it is to scale parts that get in the way, or if you zoom in close enough to a part you can bypass it's collision and select parts that are inside. Unfortunately this is the only way the game can handle these parts.

When cmt comes out, ill see if i can do some juju magig for hollow stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 05:42:47 AM
This past weekend I had the opportunity to watch about 30 different spinners fight each other, then walk through the pits to see what damage had occurred.  The spinner robots were all around 85 pounds, and they mostly had small-ish vertical spinners.  They were only a handful of horizontal spinners in the mix.  A few observations:

1. Most of the horizontal spinners broke.  The broken ones I looked at tended to have weapon axles that were more than 8 inches apart.
2. When a spinner broke it was because the entire axle came out.  This occurred due to a combination of axle bending (long, thin axle = bad) and frame bending (warped frame = axle pops out).  A 1500 Joule spinner with an 8" long x 3/4" diameter steel axle bent and popped out every time it hit anything solid.  They lost two consecutive axles that way.
3. The spinners were driven mostly by Ampflow A28-150s or A28-400s at 24 volts.
4. Most of the horizontal spinners were larger than 12" in diameter.
5. None of the vertical spinners broke.
6. Most of the vertical spinners were less than 12" in diamater.

Some inferences:

1. Larger diameter spinners break more often.
2. Spinners with bearings farther apart break more easily.

I'm thinking of maybe trying to incorporate the "larger spinner = more dangerous to itself" idea into the game.  My Tombclone has a long bar.  Maybe it is more prone to self damage by accidentally hitting the wall or the floor?  It also tends to send itself flying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 06:11:22 AM
This past weekend I had the opportunity to watch about 30 different spinners fight each other, then walk through the pits to see what damage had occurred.  The spinner robots were all around 85 pounds, and they mostly had small-ish vertical spinners.  They were only a handful of horizontal spinners in the mix.  A few observations:

1. Most of the horizontal spinners broke.  The broken ones I looked at tended to have weapon axles that were more than 8 inches apart.
2. When a spinner broke it was because the entire axle came out.  This occurred due to a combination of axle bending (long, thin axle = bad) and frame bending (warped frame = axle pops out).  A 1500 Joule spinner with an 8" long x 3/4" diameter steel axle bent and popped out every time it hit anything solid.  They lost two consecutive axles that way.
3. The spinners were driven mostly by Ampflow A28-150s or A28-400s at 24 volts.
4. Most of the horizontal spinners were larger than 12" in diameter.
5. None of the vertical spinners broke.
6. Most of the vertical spinners were less than 12" in diamater.

Some inferences:

1. Larger diameter spinners break more often.
2. Spinners with bearings farther apart break more easily.

I'm thinking of maybe trying to incorporate the "larger spinner = more dangerous to itself" idea into the game.  My Tombclone has a long bar.  Maybe it is more prone to self damage by accidentally hitting the wall or the floor?  It also tends to send itself flying.

That idea is good, however when you look at it, in HW divisions, bigger horizontal bars tend do be more dangerous to other bots if driven well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 08:23:07 AM
Totally agree.

The game makes a distinction between hitting an opponent and hitting an immovable object.  It would be straightforward to increase self damage for large diameter spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 09:13:11 AM
Totally agree.

The game makes a distinction between hitting an opponent and hitting an immovable object.  It would be straightforward to increase self damage for large diameter spinners.
Current form of self damage is the weapon falling off which happens unrealistically often and its very sensitive, id recommend more of an internal shock
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 09:32:55 AM
Current form of self damage is the weapon falling off which happens unrealistically often and its very sensitive, id recommend more of an internal shock

Which again - goes back to my thing about the damage system being moved to the health of internal components including impact damage ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
Current form of self damage is the weapon falling off which happens unrealistically often and its very sensitive, id recommend more of an internal shock

Which again - goes back to my thing about the damage system being moved to the health of internal components including impact damage ;)

But how do we communicate to players that damage is accumulating?  The nice thing about something falling off is that it is very visual.

90% of the robot KOs this weekend were because the little wires that go to the receiver popped out after a hit.  It is an incredibly unsatisfying way to lose.  There is no warning, and it sucks when it happens.  Your robot stops working.

Even though losing like this is completely realistic, I don't want RR2 players to feel like every time they lost it was because of an unlucky hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 04, 2020, 09:44:17 AM
Would it be possible to have parts warp visually based off of damage received? And maybe more total damage taken = slower spin up time and maybe motors shutting off entirely?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 09:52:45 AM
Current form of self damage is the weapon falling off which happens unrealistically often and its very sensitive, id recommend more of an internal shock

Which again - goes back to my thing about the damage system being moved to the health of internal components including impact damage ;)

But how do we communicate to players that damage is accumulating?  The nice thing about something falling off is that it is very visual.

90% of the robot KOs this weekend were because the little wires that go to the receiver popped out after a hit.  It is an incredibly unsatisfying way to lose.  There is no warning, and it sucks when it happens.  Your robot stops working.

Even though losing like this is completely realistic, I don't want RR2 players to feel like every time they lost it was because of an unlucky hit.

As I had suggested, maybe doing a new version of the LED which indicates a colour according to health. And besides - we have the armour panels which can now fall off which is always good.

And to be honest I was thinking to make things fairer of maybe having 'Impact' health work a bit like a pump kind of system.... if you hit the opponent, the impact level goes up but can recover itself. The more you hit an opponent in a row (Axe, Flipper, Rammer, ect.) the less time the bar has to recover and can be pushed to the critical health level.

Just trying to think of a way to make all weapons have a fairer fighting chance rather than spinners just being the elite.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 09:54:47 AM
Would it be possible to have parts warp visually based off of damage received? And maybe more total damage taken = slower spin up time and maybe motors shutting off entirely?
Visual warp is gonna be kinda awful to make with rigidbodies, ra2 is having one for chassis and you can see how well that works. I could see a uhh component deteriation system with scratches, dents (with bumpmapping) and uhh fractures, I like the slower spin up. Now for the wires breaking off, maybe if you could have a visible wire once the advanced wiring system exists, we could cut the wires off with the weapon in a battle? This way you wont lose to wire falling off, you would lose to wire getting cut instead
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 09:58:57 AM
Visual deformation looks terrible right now.  It would take a lot of work to make it subtle and probably only mediocre looking.  Not worth the time, IMO.

An LED system could work.  Maybe that is enough?  I’m not so keen on a “self healing” mechanic.  It just seems like this is so gamey and not at all representative of the real world.  I think I would be a lot more okay with hits putting a robot off balance though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 10:03:12 AM
Visual deformation looks terrible right now.  It would take a lot of work to make it subtle and probably only mediocre looking.  Not worth the time, IMO.

An LED system could work.  Maybe that is enough?  I%u2019m not so keen on a %u201Cself healing%u201D mechanic.  It just seems like this is so gamey and not at all representative of the real world.  I think I would be a lot more okay with hits putting a robot off balance though.

Honestly for an axe, the stronget the armour the longer the bot lasts. I think a perfect example where a bot was axed to death was between THZ and Spawn Again where the bot just slowly died.

how does the visual deformation look like rn btw?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 10:08:06 AM
Visual deformation looks terrible right now.  It would take a lot of work to make it subtle and probably only mediocre looking.  Not worth the time, IMO.

An LED system could work.  Maybe that is enough?  I’m not so keen on a “self healing” mechanic.  It just seems like this is so gamey and not at all representative of the real world.  I think I would be a lot more okay with hits putting a robot off balance though.

After all - Power LEDs are required in real life robots, so might as well use this to our advantage.

And if not self restoring I like the idea of slowing down an opponent. That could also play into our previously mentioned idea about instead of just eliminating a robot on instant knockout, doing a 10 second count down. In real life competitions once a robot has been immobilised they still count it down rather than just going 'Oh your bot aint moving it's out'. Then players can dance around the arena for a bit, ect. lol. Maybe with this in mind we could make robot's less responsive as well as gradually slowing down? Twitching motors, one drive motor slower than the others, ect. ect.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 10:09:27 AM
Honestly for an axe, the stronget the armour the longer the bot lasts. I think a perfect example where a bot was axed to death was between THZ and Spawn Again where the bot just slowly died.

how does the visual deformation look like rn btw?

Wouldn't this be from that Mesh Deform script we currently have in the back log of the game?? Albeit I haven't played around with this feature yet for new arena props but I'm still sceptical on how they would work for them hahaha
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 10:25:39 AM
Honestly for an axe, the stronget the armour the longer the bot lasts. I think a perfect example where a bot was axed to death was between THZ and Spawn Again where the bot just slowly died.

how does the visual deformation look like rn btw?

Wouldn't this be from that Mesh Deform script we currently have in the back log of the game?? Albeit I haven't played around with this feature yet for new arena props but I'm still sceptical on how they would work for them hahaha

Ah yes, mesh deform, dark ages we live in XD
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 04, 2020, 10:35:06 AM
I’m thinking more of visual deformation, while keeping the mesh the same. If there is a dent in the wedge, the game only has it there visually, while the wedges mesh will remain the same. Also, maybe have hinges bend and become stiff when it gets hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 10:46:44 AM
Visual deformation looks terrible right now.  It would take a lot of work to make it subtle and probably only mediocre looking.  Not worth the time, IMO.

An LED system could work.  Maybe that is enough?  I’m not so keen on a “self healing” mechanic.  It just seems like this is so gamey and not at all representative of the real world.  I think I would be a lot more okay with hits putting a robot off balance though.

After all - Power LEDs are required in real life robots, so might as well use this to our advantage.

And if not self restoring I like the idea of slowing down an opponent. That could also play into our previously mentioned idea about instead of just eliminating a robot on instant knockout, doing a 10 second count down. In real life competitions once a robot has been immobilised they still count it down rather than just going 'Oh your bot aint moving it's out'. Then players can dance around the arena for a bit, ect. lol. Maybe with this in mind we could make robot's less responsive as well as gradually slowing down? Twitching motors, one drive motor slower than the others, ect. ect.

There is some precendent for slowing down an opponent.  Wheel guards are notorious for this when they get bashed in.  Wheels get stuck or they move really slowly.

I like it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 10:50:39 AM
Also, we had a lot of electrical problems where wheels would become intermittent.  They would work sometimes, but then stop working or stutter for a few seconds, then work again.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 10:52:15 AM
Visual deformation looks terrible right now.  It would take a lot of work to make it subtle and probably only mediocre looking.  Not worth the time, IMO.

An LED system could work.  Maybe that is enough?  I’m not so keen on a “self healing” mechanic.  It just seems like this is so gamey and not at all representative of the real world.  I think I would be a lot more okay with hits putting a robot off balance though.

After all - Power LEDs are required in real life robots, so might as well use this to our advantage.

And if not self restoring I like the idea of slowing down an opponent. That could also play into our previously mentioned idea about instead of just eliminating a robot on instant knockout, doing a 10 second count down. In real life competitions once a robot has been immobilised they still count it down rather than just going 'Oh your bot aint moving it's out'. Then players can dance around the arena for a bit, ect. lol. Maybe with this in mind we could make robot's less responsive as well as gradually slowing down? Twitching motors, one drive motor slower than the others, ect. ect.

There is some precendent for slowing down an opponent.  Wheel guards are notorious for this when they get bashed in.  Wheels get stuck or they move really slowly.

I like it.

Thanks, haha. I would also say about some sort of particle effect coming from damaged motors but in reality I'm fairly sure they don't do this - all the smoke, ect, that comes from damaged components comes from things like the batteries. Another thing to consider?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 10:53:17 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 10:54:15 AM


Thanks, haha. I would also say about some sort of particle effect coming from damaged motors but in reality I'm fairly sure they don't do this - all the smoke, ect, that comes from damaged components comes from things like the batteries. Another thing to consider?

Yes to particle effects!!!

I don't care if it isn't strictly realistic.  More player feedback = better.

EDIT: Particle effect for anything with electricity flowing through it.  Batteries should smoke like crazy.  When a piece of electronics goes bad it should give off a puff of smoke, then spark.  Motors should do this too if they get hit.  Lots of smoke, then sparks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 10:58:41 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??



Thanks, haha. I would also say about some sort of particle effect coming from damaged motors but in reality I'm fairly sure they don't do this - all the smoke, ect, that comes from damaged components comes from things like the batteries. Another thing to consider?

Yes to particle effects!!!

I don't care if it isn't strictly realistic.  More player feedback = better.

Agreed - more particles! Hahaha. We previously spoke about new particle damage effects for armour types, ect., so might aswell! (Could always have some sparks emit from damaged motors, smoke from batteries, small vents of gas from damaged pneumatics, ect.?)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 11:00:22 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??
I assume like in ra2 when a bot loses its tooth
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 11:05:31 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??
I assume like in ra2 when a bot loses its tooth

As an example, maybe like that fight when Tombstone's blade snapped? (I think it was against Witch Doctor? Can't remember 100% though). But I like that idea, as long as the AI are then made aware of it. It annoyed me to no end how in RA2 once a spinner was damaged they'd just wobble for the rest of the fight. Maybe once a spinner registers it's blade has broken and they are wobbling, only fire their weapon once the opponent is a certain distance? They won't get much spin up, but they can still score some hits (which is personally what I end up doing in this situation).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 11:09:25 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??


Rotate all of the components 5 degrees off axis, and shift the COM by 1 centimeter for a heavyweight (less for beetleweights).  This should give a really annoying wobble.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 11:11:25 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??


Rotate all of the components 5 degrees off axis, and shift the COM by 1 centimeter for a heavyweight (less for beetleweights).  This should give a really annoying wobble.

Oh!!! So not enough to throw the robot around but just enough to vibrate it? Throw the driving off, ect.? I like it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 11:21:37 AM
Ooo...  How about spinners get wobbly once they lose half their health?  It would throw off the driving of the robot, and it might be worth it to just spin up if you really needed to.

How do you mean? Like they vibrate on the axle rather than detach??


Rotate all of the components 5 degrees off axis, and shift the COM by 1 centimeter for a heavyweight (less for beetleweights).  This should give a really annoying wobble.

Oh!!! So not enough to throw the robot around but just enough to vibrate it? Throw the driving off, ect.? I like it.

Exactly.  The bent spinners I looked at on Saturday were a maximum of 5 mm off center.  I think 10 mm would be a little more obvious for the purposes of the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 11:23:03 AM
Whether the script can calculate the amount of throw-off by the size of the bounding box of the spinner?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 11:28:08 AM
Whether the script can calculate the amount of throw-off by the size of the bounding box of the spinner?

Yup.  I have the radius of the spinner already.  Just do maybe 5% of the radius.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 11:38:59 AM
Ok off this topic: I have a possible idea:
Burst pistons that you have could be resizable. Smaller the piston is, less co2/hydraulics/nitrogen can enter the piston, thus less pressure and less powerful flippers. Maybe split between vertical scaling and horizontal scaling? So we can make short but wide bursts, or tall and slim ones
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 11:42:41 AM
Ok off this topic: I have a possible idea:
Burst pistons that you have could be resizable. Smaller the piston is, less co2/hydraulics/nitrogen can enter the piston, thus less pressure and less powerful flippers. Maybe split between vertical scaling and horizontal scaling? So we can make short but wide bursts, or tall and slim ones

Pneumatics are on the list.  We need to get electrical distribution systems working first though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 03:40:04 PM
Spinner wobble is working now.  As the spinner gets more and more damaged, it wobbles more and more.  This makes driving more difficult.

Also, @tashic found and fixed the bug with the A40-300 (New) motor.  Go tashic!

New build coming soon...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Spinner wobble is working now.  As the spinner gets more and more damaged, it wobbles more and more.  This makes driving more difficult.

Also, @tashic found and fixed the bug with the A40-300 (New) motor.  Go tashic!

New build coming soon...

Love to hear that, might use this latest version for robogames if the damage isnt busted :)


A question for future release? Are we gonna get more compact batteries? Atm most batts are oversized
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 04, 2020, 04:05:13 PM
Spinner wobble is working now.  As the spinner gets more and more damaged, it wobbles more and more.  This makes driving more difficult.

Also, @tashic found and fixed the bug with the A40-300 (New) motor.  Go tashic!

New build coming soon...

Love to hear that, might use this latest version for robogames if the damage isnt busted :)


A question for future release? Are we gonna get more compact batteries? Atm most batts are oversized

It’s on my list :P
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 04:46:39 PM
I reduced damage by quite a bit.  Spinners take a lot longer to come off, and they start working annoyingly before they do.  I still want to do another round of testing before I put the build out though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 04:49:52 PM
I reduced damage by quite a bit.  Spinners take a lot longer to come off, and they start working annoyingly before they do.  I still want to do another round of testing before I put the build out though.
Need a tester? ;)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 05:06:43 PM
I reduced damage by quite a bit.  Spinners take a lot longer to come off, and they start working annoyingly before they do.  I still want to do another round of testing before I put the build out though.
Need a tester? ;)

Bleeding Edge Build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 04, 2020, 05:08:18 PM
Maybe
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 04, 2020, 05:28:11 PM
I reduced damage by quite a bit.  Spinners take a lot longer to come off, and they start working annoyingly before they do.  I still want to do another round of testing before I put the build out though.
Need a tester? ;)
I can test too
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 04, 2020, 05:53:39 PM
I reduced damage by quite a bit.  Spinners take a lot longer to come off, and they start working annoyingly before they do.  I still want to do another round of testing before I put the build out though.
Need a tester? ;)

Bleeding Edge Build?
Well I’m free at 8 so I can give you a quick response.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 04, 2020, 08:26:00 PM
I just posted a 04March2020 Bleeding Edge Build:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

In this build, spinners break off together.  Damage has been severely reduced.  Spinners now wobble.  A ton of bugs were fixed:


[Added] Added Combined_Damageable_Object.cs. This script will track combined damage to a weapon so everything breaks off together.

[Added] Added a tint default color field to the component_Info script, this is for tintable components and allows to have components that aren't white by deault.

[Added] New Components: Extra Decorations, Weapons added + amended, and I also changed the NPC T-64 to make the axle sit on '0' aswell as the facing on a side panel automatically face at a more convenient rotation.

[Added] Added Spinner_Wobble_Controller to spinners. As a spinner takes damage, its center of mass becomes more and more offset. This causes the robot to wobble more and more, and makes driving more difficult.

[Changed] Moved body and axle of F30-400 motor so that it was aligned with the axis.

[Changed] Amended components. A40-300 is now scaled properly but shouldn't affect previous builds as the motor was just scaled.

[Changed] Tweaked DamageableObject.cs so that parts take 3 hits to break off. Also, the minimum damage threshold for a part has been eliminated so that all damage, no matter how small, will accumulate.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem with the default tint, where the cloned components got their tint reset to the default one.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the weight of scalable/materiable components where changes in scale/material didn't count to the weight calculation.

[Reverted] Reverted Robot_Reconstruction.massScaleFactor back to 0.1. The increased mass of a massScaleFactor of 1.0 caused the following bugs:

1. The increased chassis weight caused the chassis to scrape on the ground. This problem can be seen in Nuclear Crisis.
2. The increased mass caused impacts to be excessive. This can be compensated in spinner impulse response.
3. The interaction between the increased mass of the chassis and the reduced mass of vertical spinners caused vertical spinners to flip backward too easily (Circumvolution and S3).

[Bug Fix] Reduced force and torque values of motors and linear actuators by massScaleFactor. This means the real-life values can be saved in the Component_Info, but the values are reduced in the Rotation_Component_Script and Linear_Component_Script.

[Disabled] Disabled physics collisions between spinner parts and everything else. This should help reduce physics CPU time and prevent weird collisions.

[Added] Added code in the SpinnerCollisionHandler onCollisionStay to stop the spinner entirely if the spinner is penetrating an immovable object by more than 10% of its radius. This is necessary to prevent the spinner from floating inside the floor while still spinning.

[Bug Fix] Adjusted Combined_Damageable_Object so that when a spinner breaks off it only sets the first part's damage to 0. This means the part breaks off together rather than shattering into all of its component pieces.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the problems with the axle of motors: -Fixed axles being offset from their normal positions, the axle position was for some reason not calculated correctly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 04, 2020, 08:59:55 PM
Ok so everything kills everything... a LW vert can launch a box into the ceiling whilst phasing into the floor... and the 30-400s and 40-300s are screwed up again.
In other news, the custom components are amazing!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 04, 2020, 09:23:58 PM
1.Old F30s [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

2.Bots don't gyro

3.Spinner's energy become incredibly high.

4.Those custom decorations are beautiful as hell.

5.When my disc spinner gives a hit, it sometimes just clips into its opponent and does tons of damage like a grinder to the opponent also itself, instead of sending the bot to the air. (sometimes it send both bots to the air, but randomly happens)   [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]   Also the disc breaks from small parts but not the whole one together. It's strange that in Feb 16th only the tooth would fall off first and then the whole spinner, but in this build those all stuff inside the disc fall off separately.  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

6.Nuclear Crisis's disc hits the floor more severely.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 04, 2020, 11:41:26 PM
Adding on to what Min and Code were saying, most spinners have drastically increased in power.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
My lightweight breaks the scales with how much energy it holds
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 05, 2020, 02:29:07 AM
Adding on to what Min and Code were saying, most spinners have drastically increased in power.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
My lightweight breaks the scales with how much energy it holds
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
I mean, you are using a HW brushless motor on a lw

Will give the new build a go now that im awake
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 05, 2020, 03:10:06 AM
Adding on to what Min and Code were saying, most spinners have drastically increased in power.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
My lightweight breaks the scales with how much energy it holds
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
I mean, you are using a HW brushless motor on a lw

Will give the new build a go now that im awake
That’s true, but it was working at realistic speeds and energy in the February 16th build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 05, 2020, 03:16:25 AM
Ok so now that ive finally booted up the game:

- Old A30 motors are moved, however that is an easy fix we can do by moving them manually, so no big issues
- New A40 motors are fixed, thank you
- The game still launches at 100 tickrate which can cause problems in test lab. One bot has crashed due to high rpm before i went into a battle.
- Bots are extremely violent. At 11000 rpm, the spinner wil hit 200000kj, sometimes in test lab it will clip thru the floor, but only sometimes
- Ive noticed that the jump from 5 mil alu to 5 mil steel is really large. Lets take Sloped shell spinner, Alu 5 and it weighs 38 kilos, Steel 5 and it weighs 110 kilos, i cant change the thickness so yeah. something is off.
- Pressing Del to delete a part is a godsend
- After some testing, lightweights do tend to have higher kj than usual, a 10 kilo weapon can hit 400mph with a 3 inch brushless and can achieve more kj then a hw bot, around 600kj, might limit the tip speed for my tournament for a tempfix
- If a part is thin, it will clip thru the ground.
Few fatal flaws:
- The disc wobble is a great idea: In theory, in practice, when a bot tries to self right using that bar (something like gigabyte, but its not a shell), the bar will damage itself even at low speeds. Self damage is again too high, abd the shake personally might be too high, id lower it slightly(Maybe not for now as we dont know if the violent sudden shaking is because when a weapon clips thru opponent, it possibly could deal a lot of damage to iself and the opponent)
- The biggest issue is that the bots have no impact, the spinners on the bots pretty much go inside other bots and melt the parts they clipped in off.

This is what i have gathered from testing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 05, 2020, 06:07:22 AM
Lots of great feedback here.  You guys found bugs WAY faster than I would have.  Thank you!

For this build I disabled collisions with the all of the colliders that made up the part and am relying entirely on the (now invisible, but still there) blur cylinder and my custom-written collision handler.  This is the cause of spinners being inside of other things weirdly.  I had hoped I had solved all of the edge cases to this, but apparently I haven't.  Thank you for finding them! :)

Aluminum density = 2760 kg / m^3
Steel density =  7861 kg / m^3

Steel is about 3 x the weight for the same thickness.  I'm pretty sure Wham intends to go back and tweak things.

In previous builds, the F30-400's origin was set on the side of the motor.  This needed to be reset to the center of the motor.  This does shift the motor down. 

min440303, please let me know if this isn't fixable by shifting the motor back up and the wheels back down.

I will take a look at energies again.  I did a LOT of fiddling with physics in the past few days.  Eventually I reset the massScaleFactor back to 0.1, but this involved adjusting a lot of other things as well that were dependent upon it.  Also, the brushless motor spinner model doesn't exist yet, and I haven't checked the torque and speed numbers for the 3" brushless motor to verify that they are realistic.

Hobo Droo, I'm having trouble with the video.  Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot file with the million Joule spinner?

CodeSilver, would you mind sending me the lightweight that launches the box through the ceiling and phases itself into the floor?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 05, 2020, 07:18:45 AM
Lots of great feedback here.  You guys found bugs WAY faster than I would have.  Thank you!

For this build I disabled collisions with the all of the colliders that made up the part and am relying entirely on the (now invisible, but still there) blur cylinder and my custom-written collision handler.  This is the cause of spinners being inside of other things weirdly.  I had hoped I had solved all of the edge cases to this, but apparently I haven't.  Thank you for finding them! :)

Aluminum density = 2760 kg / m^3
Steel density =  7861 kg / m^3

Steel is about 3 x the weight for the same thickness.  I'm pretty sure Wham intends to go back and tweak things.

In previous builds, the F30-400's origin was set on the side of the motor.  This needed to be reset to the center of the motor.  This does shift the motor down. 

min440303, please let me know if this isn't fixable by shifting the motor back up and the wheels back down.

I will take a look at energies again.  I did a LOT of fiddling with physics in the past few days.  Eventually I reset the massScaleFactor back to 0.1, but this involved adjusting a lot of other things as well that were dependent upon it.  Also, the brushless motor spinner model doesn't exist yet, and I haven't checked the torque and speed numbers for the 3" brushless motor to verify that they are realistic.

Hobo Droo, I'm having trouble with the video.  Would you mind sending the .RR2Bot file with the million Joule spinner?

CodeSilver, would you mind sending me the lightweight that launches the box through the ceiling and phases itself into the floor?
Ya it can be fixed by moving them to right position.

3" brushless is good, with LW, HW and HW are all being extremely more powerful, and at least in Feb 16 brushless is doing well in all weight class. So it should have nothing to do with the brushless motor.

Actually almost all spinners have a chance to phase themselves into the floor, maybe it's just because the spinner is too powerful and push itself into the floor by the reacting force while hitting the crate.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 05, 2020, 08:13:30 AM


3" brushless is good, with LW, HW and HW are all being extremely more powerful, and at least in Feb 16 brushless is doing well in all weight class. So it should have nothing to do with the brushless motor.

Actually almost all spinners have a chance to phase themselves into the floor, maybe it's just because the spinner is too powerful and push itself into the floor by the reacting force while hitting the crate.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Oof!  I haven't verified the numbers on the 3" brushless.  I'm a little afraid what I might find when I look. :)

In order to solve the phasing problem I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to reenable collisions on the spinner part colliders.  One day I hope to make a proper single compound collider out of all of them.  The tradeoff is that it will increase the physics load having all of those spinning colliders.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 05, 2020, 08:26:15 AM
In order to solve the phasing problem I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to reenable collisions on the spinner part colliders.  One day I hope to make a proper single compound collider out of all of them.  The tradeoff is that it will increase the physics load having all of those spinning colliders.
We never had any issues with old colliders
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 05, 2020, 09:51:10 AM
I just went back and verified the torque and speed numbers for the 3" brushless and it was WAY off.  It had about 8x the amount of torque as it should have, and ran at 2x the speed.  Even though it has a 3" diameter, the motor itself is really short.  The rotors and stators are approximately 1/2 the size of the rotors and stators for an AmpFlow A28-150, so it has about 1/2 the torque.  From personal experience, the A28-150 struggles to move a 60 lb robot around the arena if it isn't geared down.  I don't imagine an ungeared motor of this size would move a 110kg heavyweight at all.

If you were planning to use a 3" brushless for drive, it will need to be significantly geared down.  Probably with about a 10:1 gear ratio.

min440303, Nuclear Crisis will need to be geared down in order to be drivable.  It doesn't move at all in its current ungeared state.

We will probably need to add some bigger brushless motors to the game.

EDIT: The next build will have the updated torque and speed numbers for the 3" brushless motor.  This is going to break a lot of robots!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 05, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
I have a little request, could we bring back the ready button for the test arena? Cuz I ehhhh, used to take pics for bots using free cam at the freezing time before starting the battle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 05, 2020, 01:01:09 PM
I have a little request, could we bring back the ready button for the test arena? Cuz I ehhhh, used to take pics for bots using free cam at the freezing time before starting the battle.
I second this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on March 07, 2020, 08:41:32 PM
Something seems very off about the bleeding edge build.  My bar spinner used to top out at 150 kJ or so, but now it's going up to 1.7 million kJ.  Stuff is way too powerful and is causing weapon collisions to glitch the game.  There have been three cases now where somehow player 2 won by KO, which I'm not sure how that's possible.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 07, 2020, 08:51:17 PM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 08, 2020, 08:23:47 PM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 09, 2020, 02:34:13 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
mmm but the real Poison Arrow just uses brushless for its drum and spins up to 9000rpm within 10 seconds. Isn't having more small but powerful spinner bots the initial purpose of creating brushless? Its stats in Feb 16th are to the right point. It's better than ampflows, and weaker than eteks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 04:33:02 AM
So a 20kg disc will take 150 seconds to reach his max speed? This sill severely cripple the brushless motors and make them unusable without serious gearing down, in which case it will have terrible rpm, and then it would be useless next to ampflow motors. This is a game remember. Id suggest using feb 16th's brushless stats but lower the torque by a quarter or a third
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 09, 2020, 06:23:45 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 09, 2020, 06:26:28 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 09, 2020, 06:27:28 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 06:32:29 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...
You did not read did you, those brushless will be 10 times weaker than they were in feb 16 version.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 09, 2020, 06:33:57 AM
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...
You did not read did you, those brushless will be 10 times weaker than they were in feb 16 version.
I haven’t used them yet.
EDIT: The 16feb brushless motors.
EDIT 2: why are we getting off topic?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 06:42:22 AM
I haven’t used them yet.
A quick sum up:
Feb 16, we got brushless, they were great, however the torque could be lowered
Feb 28th brushless got a weird buff that made them more than op
Next update would nerf the brushless to the ground to the point where normal brushed motors would work better as a motor for spinning weapons
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 09, 2020, 06:44:36 AM
I haven’t used them yet.
A quick sum up:
Feb 16, we got brushless, they were great, however the torque could be lowered
Feb 28th brushless got a weird buff that made them more than op
Next update would nerf the brushless to the ground to the point where normal brushed motors would work better as a motor for spinning weapons
Ahh... I see. Brushless motors will be crappy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 06:48:07 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 09, 2020, 06:55:48 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 06:57:38 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
However it will be total trash for HW bots which is not really great as most people make HW bots
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 07:26:35 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 07:29:43 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.
And there goes the compactness of a brushless
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on March 09, 2020, 08:15:49 AM
Guys, I'm in talks with a manufacturer whose brushless motors have been used in some notable HW spinners on Battlebots. They are happy for us to use their product once they've seen some initial renders from me.

Please watch this space :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 08:59:59 AM
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.
And there goes the compactness of a brushless

Brushless are still more compact.  The brush assemblies add quite a bit of length to the brushed motors.

I just want to avoid something silly like adding uber-motors with physically impossible power densities.  Here's a good discussion of the brushless use in heavyweight robot combat.  If you read down a little bit, the author talks about how and why you can get higher power densities.  Whether you used brushed or brushless you are going to have to add gearing (and the associated extra space) for drive motors:

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/powering-a-battlebot (https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/powering-a-battlebot)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: RoboticCombatUk on March 09, 2020, 09:00:28 AM
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 09:02:30 AM
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 09:06:48 AM
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 09:20:59 AM
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff

Here's the plan:

1. We are going to create a new, larger mesh for the existing brushless motor.  The size of the mesh will be dictated by the physics necessary to get as close as possible to the torque and speed numbers we had in the February 16th version of the game.  The old mesh had a can size of 3" diameter by 1.2" long.  The new mesh will be substantially larger than 3"x1.2", but smaller than the biggest brushed motors in the game.

2. We will rename the motor to represent its new physical dimensions.  It won't be called the 3" brushless motor, but maybe the "Heavyweight Brushless Motor", or perhaps something more specific.  Ideally we will be able to use a model from a real-life motor manufacturer that fits the specs we had before.

The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.

PS - The next build should fix the phasing issue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 09, 2020, 09:25:20 AM
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff
I gotta agree with this. At least for now. I’m just wanting to get started on filming for SvL, and I’m not sure if I can get the free cam for the arena to be compatible with Feb 16.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 09, 2020, 09:30:55 AM
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: RoboticCombatUk on March 09, 2020, 10:28:02 AM
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 11:29:42 AM
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?

I'm not sure what you are asking.

1. We do not have permission to include any robots from Battlebots (TM) in the game.  If you want to make or download a replica of one, that is up to you.

2. The default AI code is going to be rewritten from scratch at some point in the future.  The code that currently comes with the game will be useless after the rewrite.  You won't need to download anything except for the game itself.  The code for each robot is stored in that robot's .RR2Bot file, so if you share a robot you are also sharing its AI code.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 11:44:48 AM
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.

min440303,

I'm going to use Lotus's spinner in conjunction with a TP Power TP100 brushless motor (the same motors used in a lot of heavyweights) to calibrate the new MOI and KE computations.

There is a great online calculator that shows the basic computation at http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html (http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html).  Here's what I'm shooting for:

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 09, 2020, 11:57:15 AM
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.

min440303,

I'm going to use Lotus's spinner in conjunction with a TP Power TP100 brushless motor (the same motors used in a lot of heavyweights) to calibrate the new MOI and KE computations.

There is a great online calculator that shows the basic computation at http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html (http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html).  Here's what I'm shooting for:

 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Ok that seems like a good thing, it is a nice middleground between a brushed A40 and an ETEK. I just hope it doesnt have a negative impact
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 12:05:45 PM
Also, please note that all of the numbers in the game are currently for 24 Volts.  We are planning to support all the way up to 48 Volts.  All of the motors will be a lot more peppy once we increase the voltage.

You will have control over voltage by controlling the LiPo "S" rating of the batteries.  We haven't figured out the UI for this in the Robot Workshop yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 12:13:11 PM
We are replacing the 3" Brushless Motor with the TP100.  The TP100 is about 4" diameter x 4" length.

Once it is geared down it should have higher top-end power than an AmpFlow A40-300 or an NPC T64, in about half the size and weight.  It won't be usable for drive unless you gear it down first.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 09, 2020, 12:23:17 PM
We are replacing the 3" Brushless Motor with the TP100.  The TP100 is about 4" diameter x 4" length.

Once it is geared down it should have higher top-end power than an AmpFlow A40-300 or an NPC T64, in about half the size and weight.  It won't be usable for drive unless you gear it down first.
Okay that's cool enough.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 09, 2020, 03:25:40 PM
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?

Like Chris said, there are no robots from Battlebots in the game. Kix and a few others are working on a replica pack here that should be released relatively soon: https://gametechmods.com/forums/robot-rumble-2-0/robot-rumble-community-replica-pack-(wip)/msg769813/#msg769813
The default AI should work for most of them, but for the flippers and hammers KupaTec has made a customizable hammer AI here: https://pastebin.com/BrSbFbEn
And I have made a customizable flipper AI here: https://pastebin.com/J3SP1T5h
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 09, 2020, 09:03:24 PM
The March 9th build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

[Updates in the March 9th Build]​

[Added] Replaced 3" Brushless Motor prefab with the TP Power TP100. This is a real-life brushless motor used by many heavyweights.  At 4" diameter x 4" length, the TP100 is physically larger than the previous 3" Brushless Motor.  It also uses the realistic torque and speed numbers of the actual motor.  The previous torque and speed values for the 3" Brushless Motor were both impossibly high.  The new motor will require gear reduction to be used as a drive motor.

[Added] New Drive Motors: Beetle Gear Motor: Perfect for Beetleweights. Inspired by the gear motor a large number of UK Beetleweights use. Drill Gearbox Motor: Fantastic for Featherweights & Lightweights. Inspired by the gearbox motors taken from cheap handheld Drills a lot of UK featherweights use. Scooter DC Motor: Great for Middleweights. Just something mid powered for all robots who require it! 4S Lipo Battery: The first of many new batteries to come. Ideal for Beetleweights.​

[Added] Spinner teeth to go with the flywheel bases and shell spinner bases.

​[Added] Added a tint color for tintable components.

[Added] New Components: Extra Decorations, Weapons added + amended

[Added] Added Spinner_Wobble_Controller to spinners. As a spinner takes damage, its center of mass becomes more and more offset. This causes the robot to wobble more and more, and makes driving more difficult.​

[Changed] Added Combined_Damageable_Object.cs. This script will track combined damage to a weapon so everything breaks off together.​

[Changed] Amended the Beetle Gear Motors with various gear ratios. Also amended the power of the SG Servo to be in line with a 10kg Servo. Offers better flipping power to Beetle's.

​[Changed] Changed the NPC T-64 to make the axle sit on '0' as well as the facing on a side panel automatically face at a more convenient rotation.

[Changed] Moved body and axle of F30-400 motor so that it was aligned with the axis.

[Changed] Added code in the SpinnerCollisionHandler onCollisionStay to stop the spinner entirely if the spinner is penetrating an immovable object by more than 10% of its radius. This is necessary to prevent the spinner from floating inside the floor while still spinning. 

[Changed] Tweaked DamageableObject.cs so that parts take 3 hits to break off. Also, the minimum damage threshold for a part has been eliminated so that all damage, no matter how small, will accumulate.​​

[Changed] New mesh for the flywheel bases [Amended] Updated weights for vast majority of components to be more realistic + competitive."​

 [Bug Fix] Updated Shape_Info of Drum_Spinner components with Robot_Resources_Control_Object.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed a bug with the robot_resources_control script, that sometimes showed the wrong component when it had a problem, making fixing the right component difficult.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem with the default tint, where the cloned components got their tint reset to the default one. Fixed the weight of scalable/materiable components where changes in scale/material didn't count to the weight calculation.​

​[Reverted] Reverted Robot_Reconstruction.massScaleFactor back to 0.1. The increased mass of a massScaleFactor of 1.0 caused the following bugs: 1. The increased chassis weight caused the chassis to scrape on the ground. This problem can be seen in Nuclear Crisis. 2. The increased mass caused impacts to be excessive. This can be compensated in spinner impulse response. 3. The interaction between the increased mass of the chassis and the reduced mass of vertical spinners caused vertical spinners to flip backward too easily (Circumvolution and S3).

[Bug Fix] Reduced force and torque values of motors and linear actuators by massScaleFactor.

[Bug Fix] Adjusted Combined_Damageable_Object so that when a spinner breaks off it only sets the first part's damage to 0. This means the part breaks off together rather than shattering into all of its component pieces.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the problems with the axle of motors: -Fixed axles being offset from their normal positions, the axle position was for some reason not calculated correctly on motors that didn't have (1,1,1) local scale. I now set it as (1,1,1) before getting the axle initial position and then reset it after. -Fixed the axles of the new A40-300 moving to the center of the robot, in the hingejoint the "auto configure connected anchor" option was unchecked and that meant it didn't reset after the axle got it's parent changed. -Fixed the ampflow grarbox not keeping the components aligned with the axle when moving the component.​

[Bug Fix] Amended components. A40-300 is now scaled properly but shouldn't affect previous builds as the motor was just scaled.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed the MOI and KE displayed in Telemetry_Display_Controller. The numbers are now accurate. I also verified spinup time for weapons, and this appears to be accurate as well.​
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 10, 2020, 12:02:09 AM
There are a couple of issues with the latest update.
-Physics are still broken. When a spinner hits something with a significant amount of force, it will teleport around. This happens during matches as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_gYQmFsTvs

-Brushless motors are laggy while being placed. Most of the game runs perfectly smooth, but when a brushless motor is first being placed, it becomes very laggy. After the motor has been placed the game handles fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BSbb5wR8-4

-Flippers are broken and cannot fire. All pneumatic pistons are unable to be controlled, making all flippers completely unusable.

-Old F30-400 motors have been moved downward (this was addressed in the last update and can be fixed easily, so it isn't much of a problem)

-Motors have very poor torque. An E-Tek powered horizontal barely pushes the opponent at all, E-Tek vertical spinners that could once self-right from their own power can't any more, and all lifters, grabbers, and crushers that used motors with rotation limits have been rendered completely useless. There is no gearing that can fix some of the lifters I've made, or allow any of my spinners to have significant power.

-A small diameter spinner that weighs more than a large diameter spinner is better. As you can see in the videos, a smaller spinner that weighs more will spin up much faster and lose less power per hit than a larger diameter spinner with less mass. The large bar spinner takes much longer to spin up and loses all momentum when it hits the box and throws itself, but the heavier, smaller spinner can consistently throw a box into the ceiling and retain its speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_QXHHLoLRI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9xbI734xTA

These problems aside, this game is shaping up to be amazing and I can't wait to see what comes next.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 10, 2020, 12:25:32 AM
Apart from those issues above, I'll talk about something that I think is really important and some own issues.
All motors spins up really slow, especially at the beginning, both brushed and brushless act like that, examples like Rainbow Circus with etek, or Aftershock with brushless I've posted before, the energy stacks in 10 joules from start, we can even see how slow a spinner is rotating.
And as a result, spinners barely have pushing power(except the crate in test cage) and all the vertical spinners lose their ability to self-right automatically, for motors having far less torque.

Here's a strange personal issue. My flipper Equator uses F30 for drive, but it has become extremely slow in this build. Other bots with A40 or F30 drive well as before(the position of old F30 still not right tho), only this one is having some problem.
Mar 04
https://youtu.be/gvSQTDfeLrg
Mar 09
https://youtu.be/_Z1hNQgxBj4
Circus
https://youtu.be/XBVwjVIDWoI
Aftershock
https://youtu.be/52aqk-Krfrw
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 01:46:22 AM
Ive tested the game pre work (and im typing this on a bus actually)

I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.


Follow up of some sorts, to say what is good and what is bad.
Well the spinup time is slower which is technically more realistic on small diameter spinners, but the larger it is, the slower it gets, or in hobo's case that is just the motor.


The brushless has no torque whatsoever on 10:0.1 gearing and opposite, its not usable for drive at all.



Flippers dont flip, it seems like the axle doesnt move at all.


When a vertical spinner hits the floor it loses all of its torque, thus making it impossible to selfright

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 05:59:09 AM
Apart from those issues above, I'll talk about something that I think is really important and some own issues.
All motors spins up really slow, especially at the beginning, both brushed and brushless act like that, examples like Rainbow Circus with etek, or Aftershock with brushless I've posted before, the energy stacks in 10 joules from start, we can even see how slow a spinner is rotating.
And as a result, spinners barely have pushing power(except the crate in test cage) and all the vertical spinners lose their ability to self-right automatically, for motors having far less torque.

Here's a strange personal issue. My flipper Equator uses F30 for drive, but it has become extremely slow in this build. Other bots with A40 or F30 drive well as before(the position of old F30 still not right tho), only this one is having some problem.
Mar 04
https://youtu.be/gvSQTDfeLrg
Mar 09
https://youtu.be/_Z1hNQgxBj4
Circus
https://youtu.be/XBVwjVIDWoI
Aftershock
https://youtu.be/52aqk-Krfrw
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I just checked the numbers with Rainbow Circus, and its weapon's angular acceleration is about right with an MOI of 2.38 kg-m^2.  According to my footage it is taking approximately 5 seconds to get to 1500 RPM.  With an average torque in this interval of approximately 40 Nm, it should take about 10 seconds to get to this speed.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

For some reason Aftershock is taking 8 seconds to get to 3000 RPM, rather than 5 seconds.  It also isn't getting close to its max RPM of 4800, only topping out at 3542 RPM.  I'm not sure if this is realistic or if air drag is just too high.  According to https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Aftershock (https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Aftershock), the real-life version was tuned to operate at 2400 RPM, reaching this speed in under two seconds.  Maybe try a gear ratio of 5.4:1?  This should get you to 2000 RPM in around 2 seconds.  This should also double the spinner's torque and hopefully help with self-righting.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

I'm not sure what is going on with the F30-400.  That is really weird.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on March 10, 2020, 06:07:51 AM
I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.

I wouldn’t feel too disheartened Kix, it’s not like this is the final version of the game and there won’t be any more updates.

If I can throw a cheesy metaphor out there, it’s like we’re making armour plating for a chassis that’s not fully built and then getting frustrated that what was a wedge shape has turned into a cut off wedge shape. Maybe we just need to hold off on rep packs and tournaments until we know what we’re working with and in the meantime just have fun with the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 06:08:38 AM
Ive tested the game pre work (and im typing this on a bus actually)

I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.


Follow up of some sorts, to say what is good and what is bad.
Well the spinup time is slower which is technically more realistic on small diameter spinners, but the larger it is, the slower it gets, or in hobo's case that is just the motor.


The brushless has no torque whatsoever on 10:0.1 gearing and opposite, its not usable for drive at all.



Flippers dont flip, it seems like the axle doesnt move at all.


When a vertical spinner hits the floor it loses all of its torque, thus making it impossible to selfright

Sorry for the frustration!

The torque numbers going into the system are real-life values now for all of the motors at 24 volts.  The AmpFlows and ME0708's numbers and performance should not have changed.  I acknowledge the fact that the F30-400 got messed up somehow.  I will look into it.

I will definitely take a look to see what is going on with brushless drive.  I'm assuming I need to test with a 110 kg robot at 10:1 ratio.  Which wheel size should I use?

I added code to increase the chance of bite occurring.  It looks like this has had the side effect of stopping spinners.

I'm not sure what has happened to flippers, though I'm kind of missing one to test with.  Would you mind sending me one that isn't working?

Vertical spinners not self-righting is a big problem.  I need to come up with a better balance of "bite ability" vs stopping the spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 10, 2020, 06:13:07 AM
Aftershock has a not that balanced disc, so it may not spin up to full speed. Also Equator is flipper, and the piston doesn't work either. You can check over it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 06:25:41 AM
Ya here is the flipper.

As i said on discord. The new features are nice and all, but stuff being broken is what it tiring me, and as much as i have spent hours in the game, im just losing interest
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 09:40:29 AM
I'm really sorry about the frustration level.  I'm doing my best to get physics to a good place.  I know you guys are putting a ton of time into the game.  You guys are the heroes of this whole endeavor.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 10, 2020, 09:47:18 AM
I’d recommend changing 1 thing at a time. If you don’t like the physics, only work on that for the next build. If you want new parts, work on those in a different build. When you put a sh** ton of stuff into one build, the game becomes pretty much unplayable, or at least has some frustrating glitches. I understand that you want to develop the game as much as possible, but at least make sure that you’re posting stable builds on itch.io. Anything untested should be bleeding edge.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 09:49:24 AM
ju
I’d recommend changing 1 thing at a time. If you don’t like the physics, only work on that for the next build. If you want new parts, work on those in a different build. When you put a sh** ton of stuff into one build, the game becomes pretty much unplayable, or at least has some frustrating glitches. I understand that you want to develop the game as much as possible, but at least make sure that you’re posting stable builds on itch.io. Anything untested should be bleeding edge.

Maybe even private testers
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 09:57:03 AM
Roger.

Either physics changes or content changes, but not both.

The problem is that sometimes new content brings new physics.  This is the case with brushless motors.  It will also be the case with batteries, pneumatics, etc.

The best solution is going to probably involve lots of very small bleeding edge builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 10, 2020, 10:09:40 AM
Would it be possible to go back to the Feb 16 build and then work from that? It might be easier, considering the current build has so many issues. Also, if you’re planning on doing super small bleeding edge builds, maybe take Kix’s idea and get a small team of private testers to help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 10:14:52 AM
Roger.

Either physics changes or content changes, but not both.

The problem is that sometimes new content brings new physics.  This is the case with brushless motors.  It will also be the case with batteries, pneumatics, etc.

The best solution is going to probably involve lots of very small bleeding edge builds.
Pretty much
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 10:59:01 AM
Would it be possible to go back to the Feb 16 build and then work from that? It might be easier, considering the current build has so many issues. Also, if you’re planning on doing super small bleeding edge builds, maybe take Kix’s idea and get a small team of private testers to help.

Scrapping the thousands of small changes we have made since February 16th isn't something I'm comfortable with.

I think the better course of action is to very clearly define what we don't like about the current state.  I suspect that there are probably less than 10 things that need to be addressed.  Fix them.  Move on.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 10, 2020, 11:11:01 AM
You're acting so entitled Kix, jesus christ. Show some respect.

Of course fixing the physics is a top priority, however I would like to see an Action Cam in the game. The lack of one as it is right now is one of the more jarring and annoying aspects of moving from RA2 to RR2 for me. The python code for RA2's implementation is in this pastebin (https://pastebin.com/b4F1GKcL) if that's of any use. Keep working at it champ, and please don't be disheartened by the less than productive comments from certain community members.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 11:51:01 AM
Would it be possible to go back to the Feb 16 build and then work from that? It might be easier, considering the current build has so many issues. Also, if you’re planning on doing super small bleeding edge builds, maybe take Kix’s idea and get a small team of private testers to help.

Scrapping the thousands of small changes we have made since February 16th isn't something I'm comfortable with.

I think the better course of action is to very clearly define what we don't like about the current state.  I suspect that there are probably less than 10 things that need to be addressed.  Fix them.  Move on.
Honestly there arent many issues to be fixed at all, its just that the few issues are pretty large ones and will need some rework.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
No worries guys.  The criticism is welcome, and I really do appreciate the feedback that everyone is giving. 

This is a really tight spot in the development because we have lots of new content with a physics system that needs to be tuned.  Some of the time that means dialing back and breaking things that worked previously.

Criticism is a super-important part of this process.  You guys are on the cutting edge, and we are going to have to iterate the heck out of this to get it right.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 02:01:38 PM
I put in a "flip robot" button for the Robot Workshop test cage.  It should help when we want to test self-righting systems.

In particular, I have been testing it out with min's Aftershock rep with the TP100 motor.  I have found that Aftershock is not capable of self-righting unless the weapon is already spinning when it flips over.

Does anyone know if this is accurate to the real robot?   Can Aftershock self-right from a cold start?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 02:06:46 PM
I put in a "flip robot" button for the Robot Workshop test cage.  It should help when we want to test self-righting systems.

In particular, I have been testing it out with min's Aftershock rep with the TP100 motor.  I have found that Aftershock is not capable of self-righting unless the weapon is already spinning when it flips over.

Does anyone know if this is accurate to the real robot?   Can Aftershock self-right from a cold start?
Aftershock is not capable of self righting from a cold start. However once it hits the floor it fully stops. Its like the disc has no mass
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 02:39:11 PM
I put in a "flip robot" button for the Robot Workshop test cage.  It should help when we want to test self-righting systems.

In particular, I have been testing it out with min's Aftershock rep with the TP100 motor.  I have found that Aftershock is not capable of self-righting unless the weapon is already spinning when it flips over.

Does anyone know if this is accurate to the real robot?   Can Aftershock self-right from a cold start?
Aftershock is not capable of self righting from a cold start. However once it hits the floor it fully stops. Its like the disc has no mass

My hand calculations indicate that Aftershock's motor should need about 10x more torque than the TP100 is capable of producing to self-right from a cold start.  This matches what I see in the game.

My hand calculations also indicate that if Aftershock has enough angular momentum (about 200 kg * m^2 / s^2) it should be able to bounce once to a height of 15 cm, then bounce again and flip itself over.  In the fight between Aftershock and Eruption, Aftershock used tiny little hits to get itself back upright again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEqp6czDAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEqp6czDAk)

The fight starts around 28:00. 

I think kix is correct.  It isn't a matter of increasing the motor torque.  Rather, the correct approach looks to be not completely killing the rotation on each hit, even on the so-called "good hits".  There is too much blur in the video to measure precisely how much speed is lost, but I might be able to figure it out based on how high Aftershock hops when its spinner hits the ground at 28:05.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 02:42:46 PM
I put in a "flip robot" button for the Robot Workshop test cage.  It should help when we want to test self-righting systems.

In particular, I have been testing it out with min's Aftershock rep with the TP100 motor.  I have found that Aftershock is not capable of self-righting unless the weapon is already spinning when it flips over.

Does anyone know if this is accurate to the real robot?   Can Aftershock self-right from a cold start?
Aftershock is not capable of self righting from a cold start. However once it hits the floor it fully stops. Its like the disc has no mass

My hand calculations indicate that Aftershock's motor should need about 10x more torque than the TP100 is capable of producing to self-right from a cold start.  This matches what I see in the game.

My hand calculations also indicate that if Aftershock has enough angular momentum (about 200 kg * m^2 / s^2) it should be able to bounce once to a height of 15 cm, then bounce again and flip itself over.  In the fight between Aftershock and Eruption, Aftershock used tiny little hits to get itself back upright again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEqp6czDAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEqp6czDAk)

The fight starts around 28:00. 

I think kix is correct.  It isn't a matter of increasing the motor torque.  Rather, the correct approach looks to be not completely killing the rotation on each hit, even on the so-called "good hits".  There is too much blur in the video to measure precisely how much speed is lost, but I might be able to figure it out based on how high Aftershock hops when its spinner hits the ground at 28:05.

Seeing that vid, i think that there is prolly 250-500rpm loss.
Might have a better vid of a VS bouncing off

Ok this might be a good vid where Deathroll span at approx half of the rpm before bouncing (maybe even a third). The bot's tip rpm is 5500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3OdFQt1_JY?t=125
Play the vid from 2:05 to see the bouncing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 03:46:09 PM
Building with a few changes now.  I'm going to try to get a bleeding edge build out tonight with the following changes:

[Changed] Increased default torque and RPM numbers for the A28-150 to match the values for 24 volts.  They were previously set for 12 volts.

[Changed] Reduced spinner wobble by setting the max COM offset to 10% of radius. Previously it was set to 20% of radius.

[Changed] Less spinner speed is lost on impact. Instead of a "good hit" causing all KE to be lost, only a fraction of it is lost. This fraction depends on how far the spinner overlaps the floor or other robot. If it overlaps by half of the spinner's radius, then all energy is lost. Otherwise, only some speed is lost.

[Added] Added a "Flip Robot" button in the Robot Workshop Test Cage. This helps to simulate being launched by a flipper and for testing self-righting mechanisms.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
Building with a few changes now.  I'm going to try to get a bleeding edge build out tonight with the following changes:

[Changed] Increased default torque and RPM numbers for the A28-150 to match the values for 24 volts.  They were previously set for 12 volts.

[Changed] Reduced spinner wobble by setting the max COM offset to 10% of radius. Previously it was set to 20% of radius.

[Changed] Less spinner speed is lost on impact. Instead of a "good hit" causing all KE to be lost, only a fraction of it is lost. This fraction depends on how far the spinner overlaps the floor or other robot. If it overlaps by half of the spinner's radius, then all energy is lost. Otherwise, only some speed is lost.

[Added] Added a "Flip Robot" button in the Robot Workshop Test Cage. This helps to simulate being launched by a flipper and for testing self-righting mechanisms.



Have you also fixed the flipper not firing? If so this is gonna turn out to be an amazing build
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 04:37:25 PM
Not yet.  It’s on the list though.  Maybe tomorrow if you like what you see in this one?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 10, 2020, 05:41:29 PM
Not yet.  It’s on the list though.  Maybe tomorrow if you like what you see in this one?
Hmmm interesting
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 08:28:04 PM
The 10March2020 Bleeding Edge Builds are up:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

Bonus!  @tashic got the scaling function working!  Scaling is only possible from the "Electronics" tab in the workshop.  To scale, use the hotkey "Shift-E".  It only scales the scaleable components, like shapes.  Motors, electronics, etc. are not scaled.  If you scale down, you could end up with components inside other components.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 08:38:12 PM
Re-uploading.  Apparently our server was full.  I had to delete some old builds...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 10, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
We cannot unzip the file
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 08:57:28 PM
We cannot unzip the file

Sorry about that!

Please try re-downloading.  Filezilla only got part of the .zip file uploaded before the server filled up.  I believe that both the MacOS and Windows .zip files were corrupted as a result.

EDIT: The MacOS .zip file should be 313 MB.  The Windows .zip file should be 311 MB.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hobo Droo on March 10, 2020, 09:07:15 PM
The Windows .zip is only 267 MB and is missing a couple files.
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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 10, 2020, 09:21:04 PM
Re-uploading again.  This time I changed the filenames slightly:

RR2-Windows-10March2020-BleedingEdgeTestBuild2

My internet connection is a little slow on uploads.  It might take a few minutes before they appear on your end.

PS - kix, I just verified that the Flipper Piston System isn't working.  I have no idea why.  The script is getting the control signal, and the torque and speed numbers are insanely high.  I will have to do some poking around tomorrow.

EDIT: The re-upload is complete.  They should be ready for download.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 11, 2020, 03:03:48 AM
The scaling stuff is awesome! It will save tons of efforts to do some resizing stuff. Really appreciate it! Also, some issues that still might need to be done:

-Flippers don't work

-Old F30s' moving downward

-Looks like spinner wobbling makes the bot drive much slower, when Aftershock's spinner took certain damage, the bot just couldn't move even when the weapon motor was off.

-Motor's starting torque are still really bad, thus lifters, crushers, saws and hammers are useless. And spinners spins up extremely slow at the start no matter how it's geared.

-Spinners easily lose all its speed before delivering a hit.

-Equator's driving issue with F30s

-Lags when placing TP100 brushless
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 11, 2020, 06:02:42 AM
The scaling stuff is awesome! It will save tons of efforts to do some resizing stuff. Really appreciate it! Also, some issues that still might need to be done:

Excellent!  @tashic is a genius. :)

-Flippers don't work

Caveat Emptor!  I have done precisely zero tuning of the pneumatic flippers.  This is because we don't have a pneumatic system yet.  The amount of force and speed created by the existing flippers is purely fictional. :)

-Old F30s' moving downward



-Looks like spinner wobbling makes the bot drive much slower, when Aftershock's spinner took certain damage, the bot just couldn't move even when the weapon motor was off.

This is weird.  The COM offset should not have affect the position of components, except as far as the joint is being stressed when the spinner is spinning.

-Motor's starting torque are still really bad, thus lifters, crushers, saws and hammers are useless. And spinners spins up extremely slow at the start no matter how it's geared.

Caveat Emptor!  We don't have an electrical distribution system model yet.  All motors are set to 24 volts, except for the beetleweight-sized motors.  Robogames and BattleBots both have a 48 volt limit.  Robot Wars has a 75 volt limit.  I'm not sure what our limit is going to be.  Assuming we set it the in-game limit to 48 volts, any motor that can handle voltage higher than 24 volts will suddenly have twice the top speed and significantly more torque.  Torque is limited by the amount of current running through the motor windings.  You need to gear the brushless motor WAY down to increase its torque.  This is worthwhile, however, as it has a much higher top speed than a similar brushed motor.  Here's what I have so far at 24 volts (NOTE - these numbers are subject to change!):

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The brushless is incredibly powerful overall (torque x speed at a given RPM), but you have to gear it way down to take advantage of the power.  Expect to gear it down three times as much as an Ampflow.

Caveat Emptor! - We haven't started on hammers and axes yet.  They are probably going to require pneumatics.

PS - I'm still working out the numbers on some of the newer motors.  In real life, Aftershock uses an LEM170.  It is a 7" diameter motor slightly smaller than an Etek, but quite a bit larger than the 4" brushless in the Aftershock rep.  For now, the "Pancake Etek" is the closest thing in game to an LEM170.

-Spinners easily lose all its speed before delivering a hit.

I'll work on this some more today.  There needs to be some speed loss, but I think it is still too much.  When I flip aftershock, I'm see KE losses of between 1%-25% every time it hits the ground.  In real life I think the numbers should be somewhere between 0.1% - 2%.

-Equator's driving issue with F30s

I am at a loss on this one.  I will need to do some more poking around to see what is happening.  I suspect it might be because the motor is dragging on the ground, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 11, 2020, 06:37:34 AM

PS - I'm still working out the numbers on some of the newer motors.  In real life, Aftershock uses an LEM170.  It is a 7" diameter motor slightly smaller than an Etek, but quite a bit larger than the 4" brushless in the Aftershock rep.  For now, the "Pancake Etek" is the closest thing in game to an LEM170.

You mean LEM170 is the same size as Pancake Etek? That means my Aftershock rep is incredibly small to fit this motor...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 11, 2020, 06:46:24 AM

PS - I'm still working out the numbers on some of the newer motors.  In real life, Aftershock uses an LEM170.  It is a 7" diameter motor slightly smaller than an Etek, but quite a bit larger than the 4" brushless in the Aftershock rep.  For now, the "Pancake Etek" is the closest thing in game to an LEM170.

You mean LEM170 is the same size as Pancake Etek? That means my Aftershock rep is incredibly small to fit this motor...

It is funny that you say that because I believe that Team Shock had the exact same problem.  I believe they intended to use a brushless weapon initially, but then went to the brushed LEM170 when the brushless ESC kept burning up.  They had to redesign to fit the larger motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 11, 2020, 07:53:15 AM
I have extrapolated the torque-speed curves out at 48 volts.  It looks like we are going to run into a few interesting effects/issues:

1. The AmpFlow A40-300 is only rated to 24 volts.  Unless we can figure out how to do separate batteries for drive (24 volts) and weapons (48 volts), the A40-300 won't be an option for robots wanting a higher voltage for their weapons.  We don't have any brushed drive motors in the game that can operate at 48 volts.  I believe a lot of the heavyweight robot builders are running into this problem as well.

2. The ME0708 (or any of the really big motors) will exceed the current capacity of the available ESCs at 48 volts.  This means we will need to put on-off solenoids into the game for the really big motors.  They will only be controllable by an on-off toggle switch at 48 volts, and won't be reversible.

3. At 48 volts, the brushless motor is current-limited for most of its operating range.  This means it will provide the same 8.5 Nm of torque all the way up to 20,000 RPM.  A solenoid-operated ME0708 will provide 70 Nm of torque at the start, but will really rapidly drop off.

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Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 11, 2020, 07:59:21 AM
I have extrapolated the torque-speed curves out at 48 volts.  It looks like we are going to run into a few interesting effects/issues:

1. The AmpFlow A40-300 is only rated to 24 volts.  Unless we can figure out how to do separate batteries for drive (24 volts) and weapons (48 volts), the A40-300 won't be an option for robots wanting a higher voltage for their weapons.  We don't have any brushed drive motors in the game that can operate at 48 volts.  I believe a lot of the heavyweight robot builders are running into this problem as well.

2. The ME0708 (or any of the really big motors) will exceed the current capacity of the available ESCs at 48 volts.  This means we will need to put on-off solenoids into the game for the really big motors.  They will only be controllable by an on-off toggle switch at 48 volts, and won't be reversible.

3. At 48 volts, the brushless motor is current-limited for most of its operating range.  This means it will provide the same 8.5 Nm of torque all the way up to 20,000 RPM.  A solenoid-operated ME0708 will provide 70 Nm of torque at the start, but will really rapidly drop off.

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Whats an IRL example of 8.5 Nm?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 11, 2020, 08:32:01 AM
Maybe for the crude voltage system? Where you can just set the voltage in electronics section. Or differently, atm receivers have set voltage to them? Ik its not realistic at all, but again, until the real system is out it could work temporarily

I have other game related ideas for you that i could pm
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 11, 2020, 09:25:03 AM
I have extrapolated the torque-speed curves out at 48 volts.  It looks like we are going to run into a few interesting effects/issues:

3. At 48 volts, the brushless motor is current-limited for most of its operating range.  This means it will provide the same 8.5 Nm of torque all the way up to 20,000 RPM.  A solenoid-operated ME0708 will provide 70 Nm of torque at the start, but will really rapidly drop off.

Whats an IRL example of 8.5 Nm?

8.5 Newton-meters is equivalent to the following:

1200 ounce-inches
6.7 foot-pounds
75 inch-pounds

At a distance of 1 meter, the motor could apply a force of 8.5 Newtons (approximately 1.9 pounds).  At 10 cm, the motor could apply a force of 85 newtons (approximately 19 pounds).

In real life for most applications, you would gear the motor down to increase the torque and decrease the top speed.

If you wanted to be able to lift a 110 kg heavyweight completely off the ground with a 70 cm long lifter arm, you would need:

110 kg * 9.8 m/s^2 * 0.70 meters = 755 Nm of torque

To do this with a brushless motor capable of 8.5 Nm of torque, you would need a total gear ratio of at least 90 : 1.  In real life, this probably would mean 6-7 stages of reduction.  You would probably want to double this gear ratio just to give yourself some wiggle room.

The A28-150G speed reducer uses 3 reduction stages to achieve an 8.3 : 1 gear ratio.  We just hid all three chains inside the box so you can't see them. :)

EDIT: Changed the calculation to account for the fact that heavyweight robots are not point masses.  You would have to lift their center of mass, which is going to be about 70 cm from the axis of your motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Lightning on March 11, 2020, 04:33:53 PM
Maybe for the crude voltage system? Where you can just set the voltage in electronics section. Or differently, atm receivers have set voltage to them? Atm its not realistic at all, but again, until the real system is out it could work temporarily

I have other game related ideas for you that is game related
What you could do is add a tab for voltage. In the tab, you would select the battery, set its voltage, and then select the motors it powers.
EDIT: You could also make motors that have a higher voltage than they are rated for not work and spark like crazy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: BATTLEMASTER on March 11, 2020, 06:51:10 PM
Robogames and BattleBots both have a 48 volt limit.  Robot Wars has a 75 volt limit.  I'm not sure what our limit is going to be. 

(https://pics.me.me/thumb_why-not-both-i-feel-liketransgenders-took-this-meme-a-37915142.png)

I'm up for variable voltage limits that way different simulations can be run.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 11, 2020, 09:26:54 PM
It is simple to set individual tournament limits.  I was referring to the limits on components.  We don’t currently have anything that goes over 48 volts in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 12, 2020, 08:08:11 AM
There's something weird about the fights, despite the motors being not as powerful as before, the fight itself has some problems that makes it not that satisfying.

-when a vs takes certain damage and starts wobbling hard, seems all motors become weak, and the bot drives much slower. If you turn off the weapon motor, the bot just barely move, and the weapon barely spins up if you turn on the weapon motor again.
https://youtu.be/-vT_0Jf4TH4

-This is an issue on Aftershock, sometimes when the disc takes certain damage and lost some of its parts inside(looks like not all the spinners break in a whole), the spinner stops, and the bot gets drunk and starts floating like this.
https://youtu.be/wMVobE3Cifg

-Spinner barely delivers hits, when it get to its oppoent, instead of releasing pushing power and doing damage, it always only gives out little energy or just comes to a complete stop, which turns those spinners into pushbots. On the other side, spinner does great efforts on its own bot, it's becomes accurate and powerful when hitting the floor and walls
https://youtu.be/HleNCVt1PQc

-There's few moments that spinner is actually doing its job, moreover, sometimes it would suddently make the computer lag then come to a huge unrealistic hit that destroys everything.
https://youtu.be/99_qXz29hRE

-Self-damage is really high. I've set damage slider to 5%, and a spinner of 30 kg starts wobbling hard after 2 or 3 hits and totally breaks into pieces after 4 or 5 hits with its opponent remaining intact.
https://youtu.be/DkyFCoC5B7U
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Just put up the 12March2020 bleeding edge builds:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

[Added] Added more conditions for sparks to occur when the spinner hits the floor. It seems to be tuned to occur very rarely though.

[Changed] Reduced the amount of energy lost when a spinner hits an immovable object to 1/10th its value that occured in the previous build. It is starting to feel a lot better now.

[Changed] Reduced stall torque and no-load RPM for the Motenergy ME0708 so that it is correctly rated for 24 volts. Added a "Max Safe Torque" of 34 Nm. This corresponds to roughly 400 Amps, which the motor can safely pull for 1 minute.

[Changed] Reduced stall torque and max RPM of Pancake Etek motor to be consistent with the real-life LEM170-D127 motor. Added a max safe torque of 50 Nm.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 09:33:26 AM
min440303,

Thanks for the extensive writeup!  Lots of great video to unpack here. 

I think I need to look in two main places:

1. The spinner collision handler code.  I need to make spinner hits more likely to register as a "good hit".  Right now it is too likely that a "glancing blow" will be registered when a spinner hits an opponent.  Glancing blows don't do a whole lot.  They should throw sparks, but even that isn't happening much.
2. The spinner weapon breakage code.  I need to consolidate damage so that all damage is taken by the entire spinner.  Right now it is still possible to break off a piece of the spinner and have it get lodged inside the robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 12, 2020, 09:46:33 AM
Ok so the weapon wobble works... Not too great. I feel like wobble shoudnt appear if youre bot is the one that is dealing the damage to the opponent. It should only appear if you are hitting the floor at high speed or if your spinner is receiving high ammount of damage on the disc itself. Also This bot tends to lose the weapon while hitting the floor at high speed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 12, 2020, 09:54:51 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 09:57:44 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.

Hmmm... Wheelfixing shouldn't be a thing anymore.  How does it work?

Need to fix this...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 12, 2020, 09:58:06 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.
Or... you could change the damage multiplier
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 12, 2020, 09:59:16 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.

Hmmm... Wheelfixing shouldn't be a thing anymore.  How does it work?

Need to fix this...
Please don’t “fix” this just yet. At least not until the damage is fixed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 09:59:20 AM
Ok so the weapon wobble works... Not too great. I feel like wobble shoudnt appear if youre bot is the one that is dealing the damage to the opponent. It should only appear if you are hitting the floor at high speed or if your spinner is receiving high ammount of damage on the disc itself. Also This bot tends to lose the weapon while hitting the floor at high speed.

I think you might be right.  If a spinner hits an opponent, it has presumably been engineered to take the shock load.  I will try reducing/eliminating the damage that occurs to self.

EDIT - I reduced selfDamageTaken to zero when you hit an opponent.  You should see the changes on the next build.   You can still take damage from hitting things that aren't other robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 10:00:43 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.

Hmmm... Wheelfixing shouldn't be a thing anymore.  How does it work?

Need to fix this...
Please don’t “fix” this just yet. At least not until the damage is fixed.

I can't get rid of it if I don't know what it is.  It sounds like an exploitable bug though.  I'm in bug squashing mode!

The right answer is to address the damage problem, then get rid of the exploit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 12, 2020, 10:01:42 AM
Ok so the weapon wobble works... Not too great. I feel like wobble shoudnt appear if youre bot is the one that is dealing the damage to the opponent. It should only appear if you are hitting the floor at high speed or if your spinner is receiving high ammount of damage on the disc itself. Also This bot tends to lose the weapon while hitting the floor at high speed.

I think you might be right.  If a spinner hits an opponent, it has presumably been engineered to take the shock load.  I will try reducing/eliminating the damage that occurs to self.

Ya also what a noticed is that at low speeds self damage occurs, My lw tried to self right and after it succeeded it started to vigorously wobble
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 12, 2020, 10:05:17 AM
Ok so wheelfix kind of has a purpose again, as It is able to nerf a lot of the damage.
Or... you could change the damage multiplier
I have to use both the wheelfix AND 50% damage for matches to be at least somewhat good.
Also the wheelfix is caused by placing a wheel onto the motor/pulley/gearbox, and then place the weapon onto that wheel. This causes the game to use the physics of the wheel and not deal weapon damage, but instead deals impact damage. Tbh, i feel like we should get rid of weapon damage and replace it with only impact damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 12, 2020, 10:21:38 AM
How low are you guys setting the damage slider?  CodeSilver says 50%.

That will give me a number to work from.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 12, 2020, 10:29:55 AM
How low are you guys setting the damage slider?  CodeSilver says 50%.

That will give me a number to work from.

I usually do 70%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on March 12, 2020, 10:32:36 AM
How low are you guys setting the damage slider?  CodeSilver says 50%.

That will give me a number to work from.

I’m quite partial to 40% personally. Also occasionally 0%.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 12, 2020, 10:53:49 AM
I had 100% in the Feb 16 build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 12, 2020, 10:54:33 AM
I'm using 75% in Feb 16th, but have no idea how low in recent builds cuz the damage is kinda weird.

Also for the new bleeding edge, the motors don't work right.
ME0708 is like this
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
And pancake-etek spins up even much slower than TP100 brushless (spinner 1 is brushless, and spinner 2 is PE)
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 13, 2020, 05:46:53 AM
A fact may help: Hits are pretty good when set damage to 0%
https://youtu.be/cbsfuiiZxIE
https://youtu.be/IrxTBX_QhBw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 13, 2020, 09:05:27 AM
From the videos above: looks like too much rotation and not enough translational movement from those hits, the bots look more like beyblades after impacts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 13, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
Hey guys,

We got hit with coronavirus here.  I will still be checking in periodically but development might be slow for a bit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 13, 2020, 03:00:11 PM
Hey guys,

We got hit with coronavirus here.  I will still be checking in periodically but development might be slow for a bit.

All good man, hope youre doing ok
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 13, 2020, 03:20:17 PM
Entire school district over here got shut down as well. Hopefully all of you guys make it through this okay.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 13, 2020, 08:25:30 PM
Hey guys,

We got hit with coronavirus here.  I will still be checking in periodically but development might be slow for a bit.
Stay safe. Hope you guys get through this tough time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on March 14, 2020, 04:49:06 AM
Hey guys,

We got hit with coronavirus here.  I will still be checking in periodically but development might be slow for a bit.
Best to take it easy man. Health is more important.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 18, 2020, 07:27:20 AM
I'm using 75% in Feb 16th, but have no idea how low in recent builds cuz the damage is kinda weird.

Also for the new bleeding edge, the motors don't work right.
ME0708 is like this
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
And pancake-etek spins up even much slower than TP100 brushless (spinner 1 is brushless, and spinner 2 is PE)
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Fixed!  I had a typo and accidentally set the max RPM to 18 instead of 1800.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 19, 2020, 04:01:06 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2020, 04:14:49 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 19, 2020, 04:45:50 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2020, 05:13:46 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 19, 2020, 05:25:05 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...
On a 10:1 ratio it cant even swing. Maybe a dedicated axe motor that has high torque like beta used? (well beta used an etek that was geared), the burst motors launch bots up in the air
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2020, 06:08:36 PM
huh seems like changing gear ratio doesnt change the torque of anything. Atm TerrorHurtz on the latest version cant swing its axe. Its gear ratio is 10:1 and the axe hits 2 rpm, and doesnt lift at all. This took me awhile to figure out

What does it list as the max RPM?  I accidentally typed in 18 RPM instead of 1800 for the pancake Etek.
No, no im actually using a A40 motor for the axe, i limited it to have only 400rpm. In Feb 16 build it works just fine, in current one the torque is non existant

I’m not sure an A40-300 has the torque to do an axe at its limit of 24 Volts unless the axe is really light.  I would need to do some calculations.  It maxes out at 27 Newton-meters.  At a 10:1 gear ratio that is 270 Newtons at one meter.  For a 1kg axe, that gives a max acceleration of 27 g’s, but only briefly.  Its top speed would be around 21 meters per second.  It should take about 1/10th of a second to swing down.  For a 10 kg axe, it would take much longer to swing.  Maybe more than half a second?

Much slower than this and something is wrong...
On a 10:1 ratio it cant even swing. Maybe a dedicated axe motor that has high torque like beta used? (well beta used an etek that was geared), the burst motors launch bots up in the air

Yup.  Those pneumatics systems are way overpowered.

For reference, an Etek-style motor is 8-9 inches in diameter.  The A40-300 is only 4 inches in diameter.  When you see them in person there is no comparison.  Maybe the Pancake Etek for axes once I fix the max RPM?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2020, 06:18:35 PM
Oh!  I forgot to ask:  what is the mass of the axe?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 19, 2020, 06:22:24 PM
Oh!  I forgot to ask:  what is the mass of the axe?
Mass of the axe is 6 kilos, Pancake etek is too big to fit it in. Im pretty sure something is off with the gearing torque tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on March 19, 2020, 06:39:53 PM
Besides axes, lifters don't work well either. An F30 geared at 10:1 cannot even easily lift a 4kg bar itself, not to speak of lifting a 110kg bot. For many spinners as well, their selfrighting mechanism becomes useless.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 20, 2020, 08:20:53 PM
Hey guys,

I'm in the tank at the moment.  With the coronavirus in full swing I am frantically trying to finish one of our free educational resources so that kids can learn chemistry from home.  Its called ChemThink, and a few of them are still stuck in their Flash versions from 2003:

https://www.simbucket.com/welcome-to-simbucket/

I'm hoping to get these conversions done over the next few weeks so I can get back to game dev.  A few of the team members are continuing to work while I'm gone, so hopefully you will see an update or two.

My priority is to get the electric system done so we can get the ME0708 and brushless motors back up to 48 volts where they belong.  24 volts is just so wah wuh.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on March 31, 2020, 11:50:06 AM
So, an idea kept me up last night, and I decided to write everything down so that I could tell you guys. Hopefully it makes sense and doesn’t sound like gibberish.
I think I might have a solution in regards to damage physics and weapon impacts.
Issue: for the Feb 16 build, nonstops if not all impacts cause the weapon to stop moving completely, yet the impacts seem a bit weak. As for the newer builds, all impacts are big impacts and are extremely unrealistic.
Potential solution: use a randomizer to determine how damage is dealt and how they impact. The way the probabilities for each type of hit depend on the shape, type and size of the spinner. Something like a deep six will have a big hit probability of around 90 to 95%, small hit of 5%, and grind of 0%, whereas something like a Minotaur Will have A big hit of 10%, small hit of 20%, and grind of 70%. The potential maximum impact (PMI) will be determined based on the rpm and weapon mass. Something like Whiplash would have a low PMI, whereas a Tombstone or a SOW will have a very high PMI. Robots with a higher PMI will have quicker motor fatigue, meaning it will take longer to spin up after big hits. Now, about the 3 types of hits: Grinding will wear down armor but will not be able to break it, it will also cause it’s opponent to have slowly increased motor fatigue and with steel to steel will create lots of sparks. Small hits will pop its opponent away, will weaken larger parts, and will be able to break off parts with a low maximum hp. Big hits will be the only one that can break off large chunks of armor. Now you might ask, “why shouldn’t I just make the weapon have the highest big hit % and PMI possible?” The answer is simple: higher big hit %= quicker motor fatigue and higher PMI= more self-damage. Making a robot with a lower big hit % and PMI won’t dish out insane hits, but it will be much more reliable and will be more likely to survive a whole 3 minutes in a match against an anti-spinner.
If anyone needs me to explain, simplify, or expand on anything, just ask. I will do the best of my abilities to provide an answer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 16, 2020, 10:18:55 AM
ChemThink is DONE.  It has been 4 years and 2 months since I started working on it.  Oof.  I feel like I just finished my dissertation.  If anyone is curious and wants to learn chemistry (or any other science stuff), here is ChemThink, along with everything else:

https://www.simbucket.com (https://www.simbucket.com)

The really good news is that my docket is now clear to work on the game! :)

@tashic and @WhamettNuht have been working on the new electrical distribution system.  As it stands right now it will take some time to wrap your head around if you have never worked with electrical stuff before.  I'm hoping that it will be a little more straightforward after we let you guys play with it a bit and make changes.  Once this is in place, you will be able to do things like over-volting a motor for higher torque and speed, at the risk of overheating.

I know you guys have been waiting a long time for a tournament-ready build.  I'm thinking that it isn't worth trying to get the electrical distribution system in place for that.  Instead, I would like to do a build where all of the motors are set at their rated voltages, but with their real-life torque values and the overheating model in place.  This will allow MUCH higher ungeared torques for the brushed motors for a fraction of a second.  If you stall your motors at full current for longer than that, your motors will overheat.  Brushless motors will need to be geared down a lot to be able to match the torque of their brushed equivalents, but you won't have to worry about overheating once either type of motor is properly geared.

Here are two real-life resources that were are basing our model on:

http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm (http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm)
http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html (http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html)

What else needs to be done?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 16, 2020, 10:29:50 AM
Here's a screenshot showing our current mockup of the electrical distribution system.  It doesn't do anything yet, but you can make and break connections and get information from the components:

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 16, 2020, 10:54:12 AM
Even tho i am not an electrician, this seems pretty straightforward so im keeping forward to it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on April 17, 2020, 06:10:20 AM
Even tho i am not an electrician, this seems pretty straightforward so im keeping forward to it!

I'm pretty much the same - when it comes to robot building my strength is in fabrication rather than the workings, but I think it's still a good system we have!

It was confirmed for me when Ray Billing's sent cjbruce and myself an electrical diagram of Tombstone and it was essentially the same as what we have going on haha!

Hope you're all looking forward to upcoming builds :)

And more importantly - I hope you're all staying safe!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CyarSkirata on April 24, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
I'm suddenly wondering about an idea for things like hubmotors and axle bots. Would it potentially be viable to have alternative versions of motors and gearboxes where the game considers the axle to be the root part, and the main body the axle?

So you place the gearbox on the robot by its axle, then place the motor on the end of the gearbox.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 24, 2020, 07:51:07 PM
I find myself thinking about this a lot.  As I’m going through and recalibrating motors, I’m constantly thinking things like “How would this work with a crushed motor instead of a brushless motor?”
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SkullKid2000 on May 02, 2020, 03:47:40 PM
To the developer: I've got a quick question. Is it possible to import 3D models into Robot Rumble 2.0?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 02, 2020, 03:58:06 PM
To the developer: I've got a quick question. Is it possible to import 3D models into Robot Rumble 2.0?

Not yet, but the Component Modding Tool is planned once we are comfortable with the Arena Modding Tool.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SkullKid2000 on May 02, 2020, 03:59:05 PM
Thanks for letting me know! Cheers cjbruce :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 02, 2020, 04:32:57 PM
Thanks for letting me know! Cheers cjbruce :)

I know youre plan, and im looking forward to that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 07:29:43 AM
Hey guys,

We're putting up a new Bleeding Edge Build today.  This build has so many changes that I can't detail them all here, but here are the big ones:

1. Electronics and electrical components are now a thing.  In order to make a robot drive, you must include the following:

- A receiver.  Each channel of the receiver must be set to the appropriate type of control from your radio transmitter.  Left Drive, Right Drive, Single Throw Toggle, etc.
- At least one battery.  The battery voltage you pick is important.  If you choose too low of a voltage, your robot will be sluggish.  If you choose too high of a voltage, your motors will overheat and burn out.
- If you have a weapon, you will need either a second battery (usually at a higher voltage) or a battery hub (to save weight).  This hub will send power to your drive ESC (usually a 2x60 Amp ESC) and to your weapon ESC (either another brushed ESC or a brushless ESC, depending on the motor you choose).
- You will need enough ESCs to handle all of your motors.  ESCs are either single-channel or 2-channel.
- Motors.  Most robots nowadays use brushed ESCs for drive, but it is up to you.  Lighter motors heat up (and cool down) more quickly.

2. Motor overheating is now a thing.  You can see the status of your motors in the robot workshop test cage.  If your motor temp goes above 115 Celsius for more than 5 seconds, the motor windings will burn out.  To prevent this from happening motors must be geared down.  Let me repeat this so it is clear:

ALL MOTORS MUST BE GEARED DOWN.

period.  full stop.  This is true for building in real-life too.  These motors are powerful and they will rapidly destroy themselves if you run them at nominal voltage while clamping the rotor.

Unless you plan to run all of your motors at 3.7 volts, pretty much every motor in the game will overheat when you stall it out.  To prevent this, add a gearbox to reduce the current through the motor.

This is going to break lots of existing designs.  Sorry. :(

If you would like a more detailed explanation, I recommend checking out Mark Joerger's wonderful robot combat website at the following URL.  He's the builder of Run Amok, Robotica champion from long ago, and has been answering robot combat questions for decades:

http://runamok.tech/AskAaron.html (http://runamok.tech/AskAaron.html)

To get an idea of how much you will need to gear down your drive motors, please try the following online calculator:

http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm (http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm)

3. We have removed pneumatics and linear actuators from the robot workshop for now to give us time to focus on the electro-mechanical systems.  We will be building out pneumatics and linear actuators over the next few months behind the scenes.  Any existing pneumatics or linear actuators will work differently when we release them.

EDIT: Mark Joerger won Robotica, not Robot Wars.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 07:33:56 AM
The 22May2020 bleeding edge builds are up!  Here's the link:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

***Please note that this build is going to break a lot of your existing designs.  Please see my previous post for details.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 22, 2020, 08:05:05 AM
22-May is missing for windows btw.

EDIT: it is mislabeled as 02-May
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on May 22, 2020, 08:28:53 AM
you guys kick ass. if the pneumatics revamp is anything like this i'm sure you'll knock it out of the park. keep up the good work!

also mark joerger won robotica with a stripped out lawnmower and then proceeded to suck sh** at robot wars with said lawnmower. he also spends his free time complaining about modern combat robotics on facebook. not saying his info isn't valid, just that there's likely better sources than him for modern robot info
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 08:57:11 AM
you guys kick ass. if the pneumatics revamp is anything like this i'm sure you'll knock it out of the park. keep up the good work!

also mark joerger won robotica with a stripped out lawnmower and then proceeded to suck sh** at robot wars with said lawnmower. he also spends his free time complaining about modern combat robotics on facebook. not saying his info isn't valid, just that there's likely better sources than him for modern robot info

Mea culpa - you are correct.  My intent was to imply that he has a lot of technical knowledge in his website that he has graciously shared with the world.  I don't disagree with you about Mark's grumpiness.  Back in my college days "The Facebook" was a paper pamphlet that came out every year and all of us upperclassmen would read it and rate all of the incoming freshmen.  It was a truly horrible thing.  Facebook has only gone downhill since.  I have no idea what Mark posts there, but I try to avoid Facebook at all costs.  GTM is much better. :)

As far as I can tell Mark's advice is pretty solid for the insect classes.  Over the past few months I have been trying to push the game and myself into those weight classes.  I'm hoping to get a tiny robot into a local competition at some point in the next year.

EDIT: Thank you!  We are hoping to get it to the point where it just completely kick-ass as both a simulator and a game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 09:00:53 AM
22-May is missing for windows btw.

EDIT: it is mislabeled as 02-May

Fixed!  It is now labeled as RR2-Windows-22May2020-BleedingEdgeTestBuild.zip
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Arcane on May 22, 2020, 09:03:37 AM
Really intriguing stuff here from what I’ve messed around with so far, can’t wait to sink my teeth into this build a little more later. Great work team!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cephalopod on May 22, 2020, 09:49:45 AM
ALL MOTORS MUST BE GEARED DOWN.

period.  full stop.  This is true for building in real-life too. 

a certain gareth barnaby would argue otherwise (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=418528502368456)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 09:56:02 AM
ALL MOTORS MUST BE GEARED DOWN.

period.  full stop.  This is true for building in real-life too. 

a certain gareth barnaby would argue otherwise

You have to be really really careful about temperature if you do direct drive from a motor. 

I'm struggling with how to convey this to players.  I'm afraid that new players won't understand the relationship between gearing and heat buildup and they will get frustrated because their motors keep destroying themselves and the player won't know why.

There is nothing in the game to prevent people from running a drill motor at 44.1 volts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cephalopod on May 22, 2020, 09:58:07 AM
yeah i know i'm just messing around with you. all his beetles/feathers including our new joint feather are all direct drive brushless, but for game purposes i think this is the right way to go about things :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 10:39:10 AM
yeah i know i'm just messing around with you. all his beetles/feathers including our new joint feather are all direct drive brushless, but for game purposes i think this is the right way to go about things :)

Phew! :)

I really want to support the insect classes.  There are so many builders out there who might be able to use the game to prototype their designs.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 22, 2020, 12:08:45 PM
Tried the build and, its great.
Its a shame that the flippers are gone, but its not an issue

Overheating is great, but imo they overheat too much
A40 motors are overheating when idle if: it is set as servo, and has limited angles

If a battery is not wired to the esc, and if you go to test area, the bot explodes, and when i go back to the lab, parts fall off

The fighting is top notch, the hits are well done, and bots dont self destruct

One thing that is broken is the selfrighting. It is kinda non functional as seen in this vid below:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622944371494486016/713436897200046140/2020.05.22-19.02_03.mp4

Also custom arenas are gone, all the AMT made and the game made (Test arena is still selectable)

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 22, 2020, 12:36:03 PM
The new build is really great and the electronic system is awesome, the hits inside the fights are back to the right position as well. But there're some issues for driving in this build.
For 4WD vertical spinners, when the weapon motor is off, the bot works fine and turns fine, but when the weapom motor's on, the bot could only run in circles instead of turning.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
And for 4WD horizontal spinners, it goes to the opposite, run in circles when the weapon motor's off, and turns fine when the weapon motor's on.

Here are the bots.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 22, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Another issue is, 2WD vertical spinners could barely turn, it's like something's stuck with the floor and make it hard to drive.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
bots here.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  



Edit: Like what kix said, the spinner bite is supposed to be an issue. Especially disc spinners act like there was no teeth on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 03:36:16 PM
You guys are amazing!  Thank you!

I’ll try to get to the bugs as soon as I can.

Also, please attach the .RR2Bot file if you haven’t already.  I can’t really troubleshoot without it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2020, 05:18:16 PM
yeah i know i'm just messing around with you. all his beetles/feathers including our new joint feather are all direct drive brushless, but for game purposes i think this is the right way to go about things :)

Speaking of real life, do you have any idea what is happening with Bugglebots this year?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 06:13:28 AM
Another issue is, 2WD vertical spinners could barely turn, it's like something's stuck with the floor and make it hard to drive.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
bots here.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  



Edit: Like what kix said, the spinner bite is supposed to be an issue. Especially disc spinners act like there was no teeth on it.

Thanks for checking the bite issue.  That is something that will definitely need tweaking.

Afterbite is a little slow to turn, but I think that is because of the gyroscopic effect occurring with the spinner at 3500+ RPM. I geared it down a little bit and it was a little easier.  It might be worth sending the robot to Will Thomas to see what he thinks.  It is tunable, but I want to be really careful about tuning at this point.

I agree that DIRE is sluggish.  I suspect it is because of all of the weight so far forward from the wheelbase.  I tried sticking two ball casters under the front of the chassis.  I'm not sure it helped.  I also noticed that you are running DIRE's weapon with a 0.5:1 gear ratio.  This is low and is leading to long spinup times and a weapon that spins way too fast.  It has a tremendous amount of angular momentum making it difficult to turn because of gyroscopic effect.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 06:42:43 AM
The new build is really great and the electronic system is awesome, the hits inside the fights are back to the right position as well. But there're some issues for driving in this build.
For 4WD vertical spinners, when the weapon motor is off, the bot works fine and turns fine, but when the weapom motor's on, the bot could only run in circles instead of turning.

Oo!  That's neat!  I just checked it out in the Unity editor to see what is happening.  Once the spinner gets up to speed it has so much angular momentum that it is lifting E-Max's inside wheels off the ground during a turn.  This means that only the outside wheels are in contact with the ground.  The outside wheels push the robot forward, but the inside wheels can't push the robot backward.  This means that the robot can no longer turn in place.

2 robot design solutions exist to this:
1. Reduce the angular momentum of the spinner.
2. Increase the wheelbase.

I verified the numbers for E-Max's gyroscopic effect using this online robot combat gyroscopic effect calculator:

http://runamok.tech/insanity/gyroscopiceffect.html (http://runamok.tech/insanity/gyroscopiceffect.html).

These are E-Max's measured values from the game:

Drive Train Width: 700 mm
Drive Motor Speed: 370 RPM
Wheel Diameter: 150 mm
Robot Mass: 131 kg
Weapon Mass Moment of Inertia: 1.06 kg-m^2

Using the numbers above, I get a maximum weapon speed around 1000 RPM before the inside wheels lift off the ground.  1000 RPM is pretty slow for a drum like this.  Maybe try increasing the width of the wheelbase?


 [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
And for 4WD horizontal spinners, it goes to the opposite, run in circles when the weapon motor's off, and turns fine when the weapon motor's on.

Here are the bots.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

I see this happening in Cyber Storm 2.  It appears that the weapon is digging into the ground a little bit and acting as a pivot point for the two wheels.  When you send a signal to turn right or left that creates a rotation about an axis that it shifted toward the axis.  At least that is my guess.

I also suspect that when the spinner gets up to speed it the angular momentum of the spinner tends to keep the whole robot flatter so the "digging in" effect above is reduced.

Maybe either a smaller spinner, or a two-wheeled Tombclone design?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 23, 2020, 08:12:33 AM
Million thx for all the explanations! I'll try to work them out.

It was a bit weird cuz those bots worked fine before, and in this build issues suddenly break out.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 08:40:15 AM
You are welcome!  Thank you for making these great robots.  It makes development so much faster when we have great designs to work with.

One of the big differences with this build is that all of the spinner “scaling factors” have been eliminated.  This means that the moment of inertia is now what it should be for something rotating at the indicated speed.  The result of this is that gyroscopic effects are now much more significant than they were before.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 23, 2020, 08:48:37 AM
After a few tests, I suspect Aftershock's turning issue was not cause by gyroing. I've test some more vertical spinners inside the test cage, and found issues like:
Aftershock's turning issue happened not only when the weapon was on, but also when it was off.
Magnetar's was quite fast at first, but you could actually see it moving more and more slowly.
When Poison Arrow was going to turn, something in the air blocked it from turning.
(All issues above happened when weapon motor's off)


And as you said: There's much more gyro in this build, but I think it's a bit too significant. you can see it on Poison Arrow. It just start gyroing madly even when the drum is 1000rpm, which is definitely unreal.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 09:22:20 AM
After a few tests, I suspect Aftershock's turning issue was not cause by gyroing. I've test some more vertical spinners inside the test cage, and found issues like:
Aftershock's turning issue happened not only when the weapon was on, but also when it was off.
Magnetar's was quite fast at first, but you could actually see it moving more and more slowly.
When Poison Arrow was going to turn, something in the air blocked it from turning.
(All issues above happened when weapon motor's off)


And as you said: There's much more gyro in this build, but I think it's a bit too significant. you can see it on Poison Arrow. It just start gyroing madly even when the drum is 1000rpm, which is definitely unreal.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]

Ah!  There is another effect happening that is new in this build: Motor winding resistance increase as temperature increases.

I haven't looked at the robots yet, but I suspect that as the drive motors are heating up their resistance is increasing.  As this happens, the motor current drops.  This reduces the torque.  I suspect that I might have a typo and/or miscalculation that is causing this heat increase -> torque reduction effect to be much too strong.  I'll try to take a look today.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 09:37:18 AM
Several pages down is a table that shows the pretty significant drop in torque at 125 degrees:

https://www.haydonkerkpittman.com/-/media/ametekhaydonkerk/downloads/white-papers/temperature_effects_on_dc_motor_performance_1.pdf?la=en (https://www.haydonkerkpittman.com/-/media/ametekhaydonkerk/downloads/white-papers/temperature_effects_on_dc_motor_performance_1.pdf?la=en)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 23, 2020, 09:42:33 AM
I wonder if irl, there are motor cooling solutions like fans or heatsinks.

Was asking because imo the motors are overheating too fast
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 09:51:22 AM
http://www.ampflow.com/three_inch_high_performance_motors.htm

I'm not sure what the fan-cooled motors' track performance in robot combat is like though.

The usual solution is to gear the motors down to keep the temperature low.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on May 23, 2020, 12:38:56 PM
Tried the build and, its great.
Its a shame that the flippers are gone, but its not an issue

Overheating is great, but imo they overheat too much
A40 motors are overheating when idle if: it is set as servo, and has limited angles

If a battery is not wired to the esc, and if you go to test area, the bot explodes, and when i go back to the lab, parts fall off

The fighting is top notch, the hits are well done, and bots dont self destruct

One thing that is broken is the selfrighting. It is kinda non functional as seen in this vid below:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622944371494486016/713436897200046140/2020.05.22-19.02_03.mp4

Also custom arenas are gone, all the AMT made and the game made (Test arena is still selectable)

Fun story about the ampflows. When running-in our A28 motors, brand new, just running for 10 minutes on the bench with no load, they ended up hot enough to burn me.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 12:49:54 PM


Fun story about the ampflows. When running-in our A28 motors, brand new, just running for 10 minutes on the bench with no load, they ended up hot enough to burn me.

Oof!  Are you still using them?

We haven't had any problems, but we are only running the A28-150Gs at 24 volts to push a 60 pound robot.

BTW - The girls team's version of "HUGE" (they called it "Colossus") worked really really well!  They did a thwackbot with a crowbar on the end and 22" diameter UHMW wheels.  Thank you for your help!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 05:15:48 PM
Hey guys,

With schools shut down due to COVID here in the US, we were just asked if the game could be used in "virtual summer camps" to teach about robotics and to hold virtual robot combat tournaments.  How do you guys feel about using the game with a bunch of kids and hosting a tournament via Parsec?  I know that we do it here with a bunch of die-hard folks, but is it ready for a bunch of students?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 23, 2020, 05:51:42 PM
Hey guys,

With schools shut down due to COVID here in the US, we were just asked if the game could be used in "virtual summer camps" to teach about robotics and to hold virtual robot combat tournaments.  How do you guys feel about using the game with a bunch of kids and hosting a tournament via Parsec?  I know that we do it here with a bunch of die-hard folks, but is it ready for a bunch of students?

What would be the date and time?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 23, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Not sure.  It might be for an engineering camp this summer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2020, 12:36:12 PM
Not sure.  It might be for an engineering camp this summer.

Oh, i thought it would be sooner, but gladly its not as im busy, and will be for a couple of weeks.
Hosting a tournamet via parsec may or may not be a problem, depending on the ping/input delay, as if i were to host, i would be hosting from EU. I had success hosting to US people so im not that worried.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2020, 02:22:56 PM
Not sure.  It might be for an engineering camp this summer.

Oh, i thought it would be sooner, but gladly its not as im busy, and will be for a couple of weeks.
Hosting a tournamet via parsec may or may not be a problem, depending on the ping/input delay, as if i were to host, i would be hosting from EU. I had success hosting to US people so im not that worried.

The plan is to run the host on the computer at the college.  They have a VR gaming PC and a high-bandwidth connection.  Everyone, including the host, would be within the same city.  I just wanted to know what sort of issues we are going to have if we start advertising this as a thing that people can do with the game.  I would love to open it up to students, but I'm a little scared of the logistics -- parents would be paying money for the experience, and it needs to go well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 24, 2020, 04:11:56 PM
Not sure.  It might be for an engineering camp this summer.

Oh, i thought it would be sooner, but gladly its not as im busy, and will be for a couple of weeks.
Hosting a tournamet via parsec may or may not be a problem, depending on the ping/input delay, as if i were to host, i would be hosting from EU. I had success hosting to US people so im not that worried.

The plan is to run the host on the computer at the college.  They have a VR gaming PC and a high-bandwidth connection.  Everyone, including the host, would be within the same city.  I just wanted to know what sort of issues we are going to have if we start advertising this as a thing that people can do with the game.  I would love to open it up to students, but I'm a little scared of the logistics -- parents would be paying money for the experience, and it needs to go well.
Might want to use Discord or something alongside Parsec to better communicate with those attending. It also might help to plan everything out like build rules. Make sure bots sent in are actually functional.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2020, 05:27:52 PM
Not sure.  It might be for an engineering camp this summer.

Oh, i thought it would be sooner, but gladly its not as im busy, and will be for a couple of weeks.
Hosting a tournamet via parsec may or may not be a problem, depending on the ping/input delay, as if i were to host, i would be hosting from EU. I had success hosting to US people so im not that worried.

The plan is to run the host on the computer at the college.  They have a VR gaming PC and a high-bandwidth connection.  Everyone, including the host, would be within the same city.  I just wanted to know what sort of issues we are going to have if we start advertising this as a thing that people can do with the game.  I would love to open it up to students, but I'm a little scared of the logistics -- parents would be paying money for the experience, and it needs to go well.

Honestly there are 2 worst case scenarios
1. The client has a weaker internet speed than it is required and the input lag/visual lag will be very large
2. The client wont be able to connect to the host, which itself can be resolved by resetting the router of the client (idk if that works all of the times)

Maybe a test hosting session?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on May 24, 2020, 07:01:51 PM


Fun story about the ampflows. When running-in our A28 motors, brand new, just running for 10 minutes on the bench with no load, they ended up hot enough to burn me.

Oof!  Are you still using them?

We haven't had any problems, but we are only running the A28-150Gs at 24 volts to push a 60 pound robot.

BTW - The girls team's version of "HUGE" (they called it "Colossus") worked really really well!  They did a thwackbot with a crowbar on the end and 22" diameter UHMW wheels.  Thank you for your help!

That's awesome! And I think the A28-150G's should work perfect in that size. A few heavyweights even boldly use them. Valkyrie has always just been 2 A28-150 motors, although it's never been tasked with pushing much. Since we used the A28-400G's, we were using the same gearboxes as well, which held up fine for 6 fights at BattleBots and 3 at Robot Ruckus (in thwackbot mode). We won't be using them for 2020 (or 2021... or 2022.......), as we designed in Maytech 8085 Brushless motors. We were swapping the weapon to those motors and decided to change the drive over as well, so that all of the spares can be double-useful.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 3g on May 25, 2020, 03:41:43 PM
One thing you could think about adding to the game is being able to place one wheel in both ends of a belt or chain system. If I have a motor in the back of the robot for an example, and I'm trying to make a 4 WD, I can't place a wheel in the back because the game won't let me. And another thing, is is possible to use only one battery for all motors in a bot? IRL most robots from lower weight classes are powered by only one battery.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 25, 2020, 03:59:24 PM
One thing you could think about adding to the game is being able to place one wheel in both ends of a belt or chain system. If I have a motor in the back of the robot for an example, and I'm trying to make a 4 WD, I can't place a wheel in the back because the game won't let me. And another thing, is is possible to use only one battery for all motors in a bot? IRL most robots from lower weight classes are powered by only one battery.

1. They are planning to add the feature to attach more than one chain/wheel to the motor

2. I think you can use a splitter to do that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cephalopod on May 26, 2020, 05:45:58 AM
yeah i know i'm just messing around with you. all his beetles/feathers including our new joint feather are all direct drive brushless, but for game purposes i think this is the right way to go about things :)

Speaking of real life, do you have any idea what is happening with Bugglebots this year?

i know some of the team are keen to get back at it but others have been pushing for at least a year off given the amount of work needed after filming, this was even before covid kicked off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 06:03:53 AM
That's awesome! And I think the A28-150G's should work perfect in that size. A few heavyweights even boldly use them. Valkyrie has always just been 2 A28-150 motors, although it's never been tasked with pushing much. Since we used the A28-400G's, we were using the same gearboxes as well, which held up fine for 6 fights at BattleBots and 3 at Robot Ruckus (in thwackbot mode). We won't be using them for 2020 (or 2021... or 2022.......), as we designed in Maytech 8085 Brushless motors. We were swapping the weapon to those motors and decided to change the drive over as well, so that all of the spares can be double-useful.

Nice!  I’m excited to see how you feel about the brushless motors vs the AmpFlows.  I felt like I was designing the brushless motor simulation in a vacuum.  We don’t use them in real life, and manufactures data is nonexistent.  In the end I assumed that torque is limited by current over most of the RPM range.  It makes the brushless motors in the game behave like constant torque devices.

1. We are putting the A28-400s in the game for the next build.   Would you be willing to build a mock-up of a certain robot in the game to see how it drives?  We have Colossus, but I was hoping to build simulations at several different weight classes to see how close we can match the real life robots.

2. Would you mind sharing the ESCs you are using in your brushless setup?  Are there any other components we are missing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 09:22:54 AM
New bleeding edge build is out (26May2020)!

[Bug Fix] Fixed crashing bug when a motor is not connected to a battery.

[Bug Fix] Fixed problem where the game tried to find a connection on motors that don't have connections when spawning for combat.

[Bug Fix] game tried to access removed components while looking though the wiring system.

[Bug Fix] sometimes the game changed all channels in the receiver when the player changed only one channel.

[Bug Fix] Arena Menu only showing 1 Custom Arena

[Added] Added A28-400 motor.  This is a bigger version of the A28-150.  Somebody, I'm looking at you! :)

[Added] Motors smoke when their temperature is greater than 115 degrees.

[Potential Bug Fix] Spinners should self-right now.  This needs to be tested across a bunch of robots.

[Tweaked] Increased speed at which the high speed collider is enabled from 30 RPM to 120 RPM. This should make things look a little more realistic.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 26, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
The smoke effect is really epic, huge credits to this.

Bots did self-right, but my bots could also self-right in the last build. And I think the main issue of spinner bite still exist, discs work like no teeth (more like teeth work like smooth cylinder, and even bars work like smooth cylinder)
https://youtu.be/hMRcWBiVcmo

https://youtu.be/StwnMGJzhr0

Also crazy gyro.
https://youtu.be/RlIKPFY6RMw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 12:25:12 PM
I’m glad you like the smoke!  It was supposed to be in the last build but I accidentally disabled it right before we pushed the builds.

Spinner impacts are back on my list!  I need to look at spinner bite again now that the colliders have been reworked.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 02:10:57 PM
Min,

I just had a thought about gyro.  If you were driving the real-life Minotaur you wouldn't push the stick all the way left or right if you felt the robot lifting due to gyro.  You would back off the stick slightly to try to keep the robot flat.  Likewise, you would be continuously adjusting the motor speed so you weren't going full speed all of the time.

If you don't have a game controller with an analog stick at home, you can simulate this input by hooking up the drive motors to 8 or 12 volts.

If you were to try a reduced drive voltage, how does it feel when you are turning with a reduced input signal?  Is gyro controllable?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 26, 2020, 07:37:44 PM
Min,

I just had a thought about gyro.  If you were driving the real-life Minotaur you wouldn't push the stick all the way left or right if you felt the robot lifting due to gyro.  You would back off the stick slightly to try to keep the robot flat.  Likewise, you would be continuously adjusting the motor speed so you weren't going full speed all of the time.

If you don't have a game controller with an analog stick at home, you can simulate this input by hooking up the drive motors to 8 or 12 volts.

If you were to try a reduced drive voltage, how does it feel when you are turning with a reduced input signal?  Is gyro controllable?
If I set drive motors to 8 or 12 volts, its turning speed reduced as well as its linear speed, so...actually I didn't feel much difference, just like the entire bot was slower. As the turning speed reduced, surely the gyro was more controllable, but meanwhile it would be much harder to turn, so yeah.

I don't know much about physics, but as I saw in real battles, when drums like minotaur started gyroing, they would just gyro in place for self-righting.

In my cognition, gyro should be like (Feb 16th)
https://youtu.be/OS-U0xKTxTo
not like(May 26th)
https://youtu.be/8qkEl-gE3yM
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 26, 2020, 07:47:06 PM
Min,

I just had a thought about gyro.  If you were driving the real-life Minotaur you wouldn't push the stick all the way left or right if you felt the robot lifting due to gyro.  You would back off the stick slightly to try to keep the robot flat.  Likewise, you would be continuously adjusting the motor speed so you weren't going full speed all of the time.

If you don't have a game controller with an analog stick at home, you can simulate this input by hooking up the drive motors to 8 or 12 volts.

If you were to try a reduced drive voltage, how does it feel when you are turning with a reduced input signal?  Is gyro controllable?
If I set drive motors to 8 or 12 volts, its turning speed reduced as well as its linear speed, so...actually I didn't feel it much different, just like the entire bot was slower. As the turning speed reduced, surely the gyro was more controllable, but meanwhile it would be much harder to turn, so yeah.

I don't know much about physics, but as I saw in real battles, when drums like minotaur started gyroing, they just turn in place for self-righting.

In my cognition, gyro should be like (Feb 16th)
https://youtu.be/OS-U0xKTxTo
not like(May 26th)
https://youtu.be/8qkEl-gE3yM
Drums gyro way too much in this game, imo. If you have a standard vert with the same weight (or even more) in its weapon, it doesn't gyro as ludicrous as a drum would. I feel like there's something up with a formula you're using that is causing this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on May 26, 2020, 09:27:05 PM
That's awesome! And I think the A28-150G's should work perfect in that size. A few heavyweights even boldly use them. Valkyrie has always just been 2 A28-150 motors, although it's never been tasked with pushing much. Since we used the A28-400G's, we were using the same gearboxes as well, which held up fine for 6 fights at BattleBots and 3 at Robot Ruckus (in thwackbot mode). We won't be using them for 2020 (or 2021... or 2022.......), as we designed in Maytech 8085 Brushless motors. We were swapping the weapon to those motors and decided to change the drive over as well, so that all of the spares can be double-useful.

Nice!  I%u2019m excited to see how you feel about the brushless motors vs the AmpFlows.  I felt like I was designing the brushless motor simulation in a vacuum.  We don%u2019t use them in real life, and manufactures data is nonexistent.  In the end I assumed that torque is limited by current over most of the RPM range.  It makes the brushless motors in the game behave like constant torque devices.

1. We are putting the A28-400s in the game for the next build.   Would you be willing to build a mock-up of a certain robot in the game to see how it drives?  We have Colossus, but I was hoping to build simulations at several different weight classes to see how close we can match the real life robots.

2. Would you mind sharing the ESCs you are using in your brushless setup?  Are there any other components we are missing?

0. So I was told by someone more knowledgeable than me that brushless motors' torque curves (relevant more specifically for weapons) are non-linear. Because the voltage scales with motor speed, meaning that they are not at their peak power until they reach the top of their RPM range.

Max RPM = Max V (voltage), so P=I*Vmax, with constant I (current), yields Max P (power).

Once we have a working robot to test with, I'll be able to actually figure out if this is true or not. But we designed around that mentality. One thing worth noting is that our prior weapon motor controllers, Kelly KDS72200E e-bike controllers, also add 1-2 seconds to spinup due to a built-in soft-start system to limit motor current spikes. Helpful for keeping motors alive, but not helping for drawing apples to apples comparisons.

1. I can try! It's been quite some time since I've fiddled with RR2 so I would have to re-learn controls and whatnot. Seeing many of the things being build, I figure it can't be too impossible for me to build my big boxy robot.

Do you have any kind of controllable current limiting modeled into the game yet? Trying to make a model of HUGE that drives accurately would require current limiting due to its (bad) design in 2019. It was geared for ~26mph, and limited to anywhere between 60A and 100A depending on the fight. This was based on trying to re-use under-sized motor controllers that we already owned, and cheap off-the-shelf gearboxes. This resulted in driving characteristics that were an incredibly slow acceleration up to a high speed. For example, when fighting Hypershock, we actually drove forwards running away from them once they pushed us up to high-ish speeds, since our top speed is technically faster. They just obviously had the acceleration advantage.

2. For 2020, we will be using Trampa VESC 6 Mk.3 motor controllers. Trampa controllers were spoken of very highly by the teams that used them last year, enough so that we felt comfortable making the jump. Still plenty of testing and tuning to do!

Edit: As another thought, current limiting will help a lot in-game (as well as in reality) with motor heat management. A28-400's could never be used to run a robot up to 26mph without current limiting, they would burn up for sure. But hey, HUGE isn't a bot built to push people around haha.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 09:47:12 PM
Hmm.  I hadn’t thought to put a controllable current limiter into the game.  That would probably be helpful.  We don’t do it with our own ESCs, and I didn’t realize it was a thing that people do for brushed ESCs.

Right now brushed ESCs are completely unlimited.  I ended up artificially reducing the torque for drive motors to dull the initial current (and torque) spike.  Drive motors were so torquey initially that the simulation couldn’t keep up and it was causing the lighter robots to jump unrealistically around the arena.

It wouldn’t be difficult to add a current limiter to ESCs.  60-100 amps is low!  I haven’t built a drive system with the A28-400s yet, but I suspect most robots will exceed that unless they are geared down a lot.

It sounds like the brushless motor model might be reasonably close to real life.  I limited current to some suitably small value.  I can’t remember the exact number, but it is something like 25% of what the stall torque would be for a brushed motor.  You might try the brushless motors in game.  They have an insane top speed but their current limiting means they have to be geared way down.  If we can find the numbers for the motors you are using I would be happy to put them in the game for testing purposes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 26, 2020, 09:53:13 PM
RE: Gyroscopic Effects

 For this build I finally removed the “fudge factor” that was included to reduce the moment of inertia if spinners.  MOI in the February 16th build was somewhere around 10% of what it should have been.  That code has been eliminated.

I need to take a deeper look now to verify whether or not the amount of wheel lift we are seeing is true to real life.  It’s time to whip out the calculator! 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 26, 2020, 10:11:42 PM
Ahh yes. Still have one thing to mention.

When I asked about turning issues for verts, you said it was because of all of the weight so far forward from the wheelbase. I tried out some weight tweaking and found it was a thing, but

I had to set the disc and the front wedges to 1mm steel, and the back chassis panel to 50mm steel, then that worked a bit better but the bot would be completely useless with a 2kg disc and 2kg wedge. So yea, something's wrong I think.


Edit: Ball casters didn't help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cephalopod on May 27, 2020, 04:28:45 AM
re: turning a bot with massive gyro, i rewatched this yesterday and sam really demonstrates how tricky turning something with a massive disc can be, literally just tapping the turn button is about as realistic as it gets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_FsG9oETiI
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 27, 2020, 04:48:26 AM
re: turning a bot with massive gyro, i rewatched this yesterday and sam really demonstrates how tricky turning something with a massive disc can be, literally just tapping the turn button is about as realistic as it gets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_FsG9oETiI
Vertical disc spinners did have kinda realistic gyro in the new build, but drums didn't. The width of the spinner would massively increase the gyroing of a bot in this game which was unrealistic. You can see in my vids above, Poison Arrow was already gyroing insanely when the drum was only 1000~2000 rpm.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 27, 2020, 06:05:49 AM
min,

That's a great observation!  A disc and a drum with the same radius and the same mass distribution (automatically true for the game because I'm lazy) will have the same MOI.

From the point of view of gyroscopic effect, the length of the drum should make no difference. 

Try the following using the Run Amok Spinner Kinetic Energy Calculator:  http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html

Thin Disc:
Density = 8000 kg / m^3 (approximately steel)
Thickness = 25 mm (1 inch thick)
Radius = 100 mm (8 inches in diameter)
Mass = 6.28 kg
MOI = 0.0314 kg * m^2

Thick Disc (a.k.a. short drum):
Density = 2000 kg / m^3 (approximately aluminum)
Thickness = 100 mm (4 inches wide)
Radius = 100 mm (8 inches in diameter)
Mass = 6.28 kg
MOI = 0.0314 kg * m^2

The thin disc and the thick disc have the same radius and the same mass, therefore they have the same MOI.  They should have the same gyro lift when you turn.

We can test this in the game by creating a disc weapon and adjusting its properties to maintain a constant spinning mass while varying the length of the drum.  No matter how wide you make the drum, as long as the mass and radius stay the same it should drive the same.  If the gyroscopic effect is different then that is a quirk with Unity's implementation of PhysX that needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 27, 2020, 06:33:01 AM
Yea it is a thing. When I made E-max (the 4WD drum bot) into a 4WD disc spinner without changing the weapon weight, the turning issue caused by gyro just disappeared.

But I think 2WD verts still have some unsolved problems. Just look at my post above.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 27, 2020, 08:21:00 AM
Yea it is a thing. When I made E-max (the 4WD drum bot) into a 4WD disc spinner without changing the weapon weight, the turning issue caused by gyro just disappeared.

But I think 2WD verts still have some unsolved problems. Just look at my post above.

Thanks for checking that.

As far as 2WD drivability issues, there is definitely something weird going on.  The only effective solution I have found is to put all of the weight right over the wheels.  I don’t know why this is true.  That’s the most frustrating part.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 27, 2020, 09:31:21 AM
min, I'm convinced now.

I finally had a chance to sit down and play with the incredible Poison Arrow model you created.  First off, wow!  It is amazing!  The drum is slightly underweight and you geared it a little further down than the real thing, but wow, nice job!

There is definitely a problem with the wheel lift when the drum gets up to speed.  To me it looks like the lift is occurring correctly.  The problem is that it is not setting itself back down when you reverse the condition that created the lift.  This is not physically correct at all. 

I have no idea where the problem is, but one solution is to include a script to reduce the Moment of Inertia.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 27, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
Finally gave the build a proper go, and not a fast check.

So about the bite. I feel like there is a delay between a spinner's tooth collides with the opponent, and when the opponent is sent flying
Gyro is ok, not the best, but im sure that it works like that in irl

Ive seen that titanium is added ingame, its all there for placeholder or? Atm It has no sparks unlike real titanium which sparks like crazy (its all about them spark effects that are melting the cpu)

I cant seem to break parts off, i assume damage is off because of the experiments with the spinner bite and gyro
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 09:19:49 AM
Finally gave the build a proper go, and not a fast check.

So about the bite. I feel like there is a delay between a spinner's tooth collides with the opponent, and when the opponent is sent flying
Gyro is ok, not the best, but im sure that it works like that in irl

For the next build I'm reducing MOI to 30% of its original value.  This should make Poison Arrow very difficult to drive at 8000 RPM, but not completely impossible.

Ive seen that titanium is added ingame, its all there for placeholder or? Atm It has no sparks unlike real titanium which sparks like crazy (its all about them spark effects that are melting the cpu)

Titanium exists, but spark and bite are still on my to-do list.

I cant seem to break parts off, i assume damage is off because of the experiments with the spinner bite and gyro

Correct.  We need to get bite working properly before we turn damage back on.  Damage is very dependent on bite.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
The 28May2020 Bleeding Edge Build is up:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

Just a few tweaks from the build two days ago:

[Bug Fix] Pause menu pauses now.  [TODO] The rest of the menus still need to be consolidated between the different arenas.

[Bug Fix] Belt pulleys and chain sprockets were improperly scaled in some cases.

[Bug Fix] Scaled down the moment of inertia to 30%.  This should make Poison Arrow drivable.

[Bug Fix] Fixed scale of the high speed spinner collider.  It was set to 5% instead of 95% of the spinner's maximum radius.

[Bug Fix] "Reset Bot" in the test cage now resets the telemetry as well.

[Changed] Changed the description for the A28-400 to say "middleweight".

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on May 28, 2020, 11:33:02 AM
Hmm.  I hadn’t thought to put a controllable current limiter into the game.  That would probably be helpful.  We don’t do it with our own ESCs, and I didn’t realize it was a thing that people do for brushed ESCs.

Right now brushed ESCs are completely unlimited.  I ended up artificially reducing the torque for drive motors to dull the initial current (and torque) spike.  Drive motors were so torquey initially that the simulation couldn’t keep up and it was causing the lighter robots to jump unrealistically around the arena.

It wouldn’t be difficult to add a current limiter to ESCs.  60-100 amps is low!  I haven’t built a drive system with the A28-400s yet, but I suspect most robots will exceed that unless they are geared down a lot.

It sounds like the brushless motor model might be reasonably close to real life.  I limited current to some suitably small value.  I can’t remember the exact number, but it is something like 25% of what the stall torque would be for a brushed motor.  You might try the brushless motors in game.  They have an insane top speed but their current limiting means they have to be geared way down.  If we can find the numbers for the motors you are using I would be happy to put them in the game for testing purposes.

We began to swear by current limiting when we were one of very few teams who could keep 48V Ampflow motors alive without them burning up. Their stall current was 700A or something crazy so just the instantaneous spikes were enough to detonate them. Ours ate themselves later due to high-speed issues, but even then the current-limiting prevented any fire on what likely would have otherwise been a short-circuited situation. Twice. The Ragebridge2 controllers we used had it as well as the Kelly controllers, and the VESC6 brushless controllers that we'll be using for 2020 also have current limiting. At this point I see it as a requirement to make a reliable robot.

As for the 60-100A, that was due to compounding faults. The first was under-gearing the drive, which was an intentional choice to save weight. The main issue was that when calculating weapon spinup, we didn't calculate the effects of motor efficiency. Since the Ampflow motors were outputting 30% of their inputted energy as heat, they were swallowing 30% more battery power during a fight than we expected. So we had to re-wire the robot from 2 batteries for drive/2 batteries for weapon to 1 battery for drive/3 batteries for weapon. We did this after the Jasper fight. This meant that 60A was the max current we could run to guarantee that our drive batteries wouldn't die. After fighting Gigabyte and Bronco for three minutes each, we felt comfortable enough with our in-fight battery usage to bump it up to 80A for HyperShock and 100A for Whiplash, if my memory serves correctly. I agree it was super low, and it's why we've done a lot of work to swap away from those parts for 2020. But the rules don't say you have to be fast, you've just got to move!

Here's a link to the motors we're using this year:

https://maytech.cn/products/brushless-hall-sensor-motor-mto8085-160-ha-c

I think limiting the torque of brushless motors, especially on startup, is the right move. The real answer to brushless motor torque is probably some kind of curve that you would need to dyno-test motors to develop, and even then is dependent on ESC choice, ESC settings, the gearing style in the robot, and probably a hundred more things that we don't even know yet. It's telling that even the teams don't truly know how they will perform until it's tested in the robot. Otherwise, sorry to add another wrinkle of complication to your simulation efforts. You're doing awesome work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 28, 2020, 11:51:31 AM
Was still playing May 26th and found something interesting.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
No worries!  You definitely have given me a few more things to chew on.  There is no thermal or electrical model for the battery or ESC.  I need to decide how far to go with this before it isn’t fun.

The Maytech motors are so tiny!  Wow!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 11:56:02 AM
Was still playing May 26th and found something interesting.
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  

This is an interesting case.  I had assumed that anything that doesn't have limits would be a spinner and would get a high speed spinner collider.

I need to think about how to handle this case.  Maybe increase the speed at which the high speed collider becomes active...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 28, 2020, 12:12:05 PM
Poison Arrow did get more drivable in the new build which was great, and I found hits were getting much smaller, it was almost like no impact there, was that normal because of some tweaks?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 28, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
Some feedback i suppose:

The gyro has improved by a bit

The hits are kinda still underwhelming and i still feel like the hits are delayed/not happening, the horizontal shell i made dishes out no damage, idk if its the speed or anything, but i guess i can drop the botfile.

The self righting with the disc is not working at all, when it hits the floor, it just slows down to a halt, ant then the motor overheats:
https://youtu.be/B3ZmLTOBHFE (https://youtu.be/B3ZmLTOBHFE)

Also the game is more unstable, crashes are more often
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 28, 2020, 12:26:42 PM
The hits are kinda still underwhelming and i still feel like the hits are delayed/not happening,
The hits were great in the last two builds I think. They are just massively weakened in this new one.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 12:57:11 PM
Hits are coming soon!

This morning I scratched out a strategy/math for computing the required amount of bite at a given speed.  Shower = less bite required for a good hit, also more bite

As the weapon spins up, a deeper bite is required, but less bite will be available.

Beyond a certain critical RPM and forward speed it will be impossible to bite and the weapon will not do any damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2020, 01:25:07 PM
Crashes?  Uhoh!  Where are crashes occurring?  Can you replicate them reliably?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 28, 2020, 01:35:54 PM
Crashes?  Uhoh!  Where are crashes occurring?  Can you replicate them reliably?
Crashes occur mid match. How to replicate? Hit a bot. Idk if its the Robogames arena or the game, use the 2 bots i sent. If you want the arena, i can PM you the arena, as its not really planned to be released as of now so i wont post it here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 29, 2020, 01:38:22 PM
New bleeding edge build is out (29May2020):

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

Updates:

[Added] Added Ultimate Tensile Strength (UTS) to ArmourMaterial. This is a material property that can be found online for any given material. It will be used together with the spinner's current KE to determine the amount of bite required for a "good hit".  The idea is that harder armors require less bite.  You would have to bite really deeply into UHMW in order to get a good hit.

[Changed] Revised the motor thermal model to make overheating less likely. All motors in the game are now assumed to use NEMA Class F silicone insulation in their windings, rated to 155 degrees.  This is based on testing with my Tombclone and the ME0708. The electrical system now includes both temperature-dependent and temperature-independent resistance. This paves the way for a more complete electrical model of the battery, ESC, and connecting wiring.

[Temporarily Removed] Good Hits - Right now all hits in SpinnerCollisionHandler.cs are hard-coded to be glancing blows. Glancing blows need to be calibrated first. Then good hits. Then code needs to be implemented to distinguish between the two. NOTE - The mathematical framework for determining the difference between a glancing blow and a good hit is already in place. Hopefully it will be ready to go in the next commit or so.

[Bug Fix] Angular momentum and moment of inertia were incorrectly reported after the MOI adjustment implemented in the most recent build. This drastically reduced the amount of impulse applied to the two objects when a spinner hit.  Min and kix, I believe this was the cause of the "weakened hits".  They should be restored to more than their previous amount of oomph.  I will be adjusting them again now that there is a plan for spinner bite.

[Bug Fix] Updated telemetry for spinners to eliminate instances of infinity and NaN. Now things should correctly display with their actual values and update to zero when the motor is destroyed.

[Tweaked] Increased speed at which high speed spinner collider becomes active to 300 RPM (5 revolutions per second). Hopefully this eliminates the problem min was seeing with his robot.

[Bug Fix] Ready button not appearing in Test Arena

[Bug Fix] Main Menu button not working in Test Arena

[Bug Fix] Slider Values in setting menu not updating

[Bug Fix] Settings not saving in Main Menu

[CHANGE] Updated Workshop to use new settings menu

[CHANGE] Slider Values now display whole numbers only

[Bug Fix] Aspect Ratio mismatch to Resoution

[Bug Fix] Resolution being downscaled on scene transition

[CHANGE] Only allow 16:9 Resolutions (for now)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 29, 2020, 03:54:02 PM
[Added] Added Ultimate Tensile Strength (UTS) to ArmourMaterial. This is a material property that can be found online for any given material. It will be used together with the spinner's current KE to determine the amount of bite required for a "good hit".  The idea is that harder armors require less bite.  You would have to bite really deeply into UHMW in order to get a good hit.
I did notice a difference when a bot used UHMW to protect its front compared to Steel, so it works

[Changed] Revised the motor thermal model to make overheating less likely. All motors in the game are now assumed to use NEMA Class F silicone insulation in their windings, rated to 155 degrees.  This is based on testing with my Tombclone and the ME0708. The electrical system now includes both temperature-dependent and temperature-independent resistance. This paves the way for a more complete electrical model of the battery, ESC, and connecting wiring.
It is noticeable, the motors can be geared a bit higher now, which is good

[Bug Fix] Angular momentum and moment of inertia were incorrectly reported after the MOI adjustment implemented in the most recent build. This drastically reduced the amount of impulse applied to the two objects when a spinner hit.  Min and kix, I believe this was the cause of the "weakened hits".  They should be restored to more than their previous amount of oomph.  I will be adjusting them again now that there is a plan for spinner bite.
Again, fairly noticeable as vertical spinners are now able to self Right

[Bug Fix] Resolution being downscaled on scene transition
This is still not working sadly, only place it works is in the multiplayer battle bot selection scene.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 29, 2020, 11:33:07 PM
The hits are even better than before which is brilliant.

And it's always me coming up with some weird stuff in the bunch of new builds.

Idk if it's only me that's having the problem. For 2WD bots (not only verts, all bots with only two wheels in the back), all of them are fast as hell in the new build, and I can't gear the motors to slow them down because of the overheating. if I use batteries with lower volts, the speed is lower, but the driving is a bit awkward, and the bot keeps lifting its front which means the bot should be faster but something's stuck on the floor to prevent it from moving faster like the driving issues I've mentioned before.

Then it comes the situation like: The best gearing I've made is like the first vid below, Aftershock drives really fine when the temp rises up to 70~80, but before that the bot just overdrives madly.

High Volts with low gearing
https://youtu.be/fcmzQtH4JkU

Low volts with high gearing
https://youtu.be/kXj4MxEEKds
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 06:34:23 AM
I just tried Aftershock.  The 10S you are using is pretty high for drive.  According to the Robot Wars wiki Aftershock uses 6S for drive.  I wouldn't be surprised if you had overheating problems.

I swapped out the 10S for 6S, and it drives okay.  I tried messing with the gear ratio a bit, and I'm mostly happy with it.

I'm also really curious to see how it drives using analog sticks on a game controller rather than a keyboard.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 30, 2020, 06:39:13 AM
I just tried Aftershock.  The 10S you are using is pretty high for drive.  According to the Robot Wars wiki Aftershock uses 6S for drive.  I wouldn't be surprised if you had overheating problems.

I swapped out the 10S for 6S, and it drives okay.  I tried messing with the gear ratio a bit, and I'm mostly happy with it.

I'm also really curious to see how it drives using analog sticks on a game controller rather than a keyboard.
How much did you gear it to?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 06:51:58 AM
Somewhere in the range of 8:1 to 12:1.

I think I'm okay with slower driving.  I'm old. :)

Also, I didn't mention it before, but temperatures will be higher in this build.  I increased the room temperature to 40 degrees. I simultaneously increased the temperature limit of the windings to 155.  You should have a lot more room before your windings overheat.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 30, 2020, 06:59:53 AM
Somewhere in the range of 8:1 to 12:1.

I think I'm okay with slower driving.  I'm old. :)

Also, I didn't mention it before, but temperatures will be higher in this build.  I increased the room temperature to 40 degrees. I simultaneously increased the temperature limit of the windings to 155.  You should have a lot more room before your windings overheat.
Ya it should be. As spinner bites became a thing, everytime a spinner hits the floor the temp gets much higher. Especially for verts, sometimes a vert has to hit the floor over 5 times to self-right, although those are small bites, the temp goes up pretty fast. Not sure if it's a thing but I'll just post it here.

  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 30, 2020, 07:06:15 AM
I just tried Aftershock.  The 10S you are using is pretty high for drive.  According to the Robot Wars wiki Aftershock uses 6S for drive.  I wouldn't be surprised if you had overheating problems.

I swapped out the 10S for 6S, and it drives okay.  I tried messing with the gear ratio a bit, and I'm mostly happy with it.

I'm also really curious to see how it drives using analog sticks on a game controller rather than a keyboard.
I should try using a controller for the bots tbh, i could give you feedback i suppose
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 07:24:29 AM
kix, I'm testing now with Green Banana and Bloodspill.  It is a really good combination of robots and has allowed me to focus on how two robots should behave when they hit each other. 

Some numbers:

A "satisfying" collision impulse for these two robots is somewhere between 50-80 Newton-seconds.  A weak impulse is around 10 Newton-seconds.  Above 120 Newton-seconds and the two robots go careening around the arena uncontrollably/unrealistically.

Our sweet spot for satisfying hits is around 60 Newton-seconds.

The problem was how to visually distinguish between "good hits" and "glancing blows".  If they both look the same, players won't know when they have really connected vs just scraping up some armor ineffectually.  I think I've hit upon a difference:

Good hit = robots get pushed away in the direction of the spin

Glancing blow = robots get pushed away from each other radially

All hits can now involve around 60 Newton-seconds of impulse, enough to be satisfying but not enough to break the game.  Glancing blows will be better for self-righting a vertical spinner.  Good hits will cause damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 08:50:08 AM
Somewhere in the range of 8:1 to 12:1.

I think I'm okay with slower driving.  I'm old. :)

Also, I didn't mention it before, but temperatures will be higher in this build.  I increased the room temperature to 40 degrees. I simultaneously increased the temperature limit of the windings to 155.  You should have a lot more room before your windings overheat.
Ya it should be. As spinner bites became a thing, everytime a spinner hits the floor the temp gets much higher. Especially for verts, sometimes a vert has to hit the floor over 5 times to self-right, although those are small bites, the temp goes up pretty fast. Not sure if it's a thing but I'll just post it here.


95 degrees is 60 degrees away from the limit.  That is pretty typical for most motors nowadays.  It should be fine, unless you are seeing smoke...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on May 30, 2020, 08:57:42 AM
Somewhere in the range of 8:1 to 12:1.

I think I'm okay with slower driving.  I'm old. :)

Also, I didn't mention it before, but temperatures will be higher in this build.  I increased the room temperature to 40 degrees. I simultaneously increased the temperature limit of the windings to 155.  You should have a lot more room before your windings overheat.
Ya it should be. As spinner bites became a thing, everytime a spinner hits the floor the temp gets much higher. Especially for verts, sometimes a vert has to hit the floor over 5 times to self-right, although those are small bites, the temp goes up pretty fast. Not sure if it's a thing but I'll just post it here.


95 degrees is 60 degrees away from the limit.  That is pretty typical for most motors nowadays.  It should be fine, unless you are seeing smoke...

Ya I mean, in a 3 minutes fight, this happens all the time. Mostly about 1 minute past there will be smokes everywhere and spinners stop.

Or...maybe spinner vs spinner just should be like this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 30, 2020, 11:56:43 AM
kix, I'm testing now with Green Banana and Bloodspill.  It is a really good combination of robots and has allowed me to focus on how two robots should behave when they hit each other. 

Some numbers:

A "satisfying" collision impulse for these two robots is somewhere between 50-80 Newton-seconds.  A weak impulse is around 10 Newton-seconds.  Above 120 Newton-seconds and the two robots go careening around the arena uncontrollably/unrealistically.

Our sweet spot for satisfying hits is around 60 Newton-seconds.

The problem was how to visually distinguish between "good hits" and "glancing blows".  If they both look the same, players won't know when they have really connected vs just scraping up some armor ineffectually.  I think I've hit upon a difference:

Good hit = robots get pushed away in the direction of the spin

Glancing blow = robots get pushed away from each other radially

All hits can now involve around 60 Newton-seconds of impulse, enough to be satisfying but not enough to break the game.  Glancing blows will be better for self-righting a vertical spinner.  Good hits will cause damage.
I feel like good hits happen most often when one bot gets a “running start” when going to hit its opponent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 11:59:52 AM
“Good Hits” haven’t been released yet.  They will be coming in the next build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 30, 2020, 12:03:27 PM
[Added] Added Ultimate Tensile Strength (UTS) to ArmourMaterial. This is a material property that can be found online for any given material. It will be used together with the spinner's current KE to determine the amount of bite required for a "good hit".  The idea is that harder armors require less bite.  You would have to bite really deeply into UHMW in order to get a good hit.
Wouldnt it be the opposite? I have a feeling that if RotatoR’s wedge was plastic, it would’ve died pretty quickly against Tombstone.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 01:11:58 PM
Spinners rip right through soft materials, scraping them up but never grabbing hold.  UHMW would have fewer hit points, but you need to take a deeper bite to get a good hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 30, 2020, 02:51:48 PM
WhamettNuht has been busy making particle effects for everything.  The goal is to clearly communicate the distinction between a glancing blow and a good hit.  I can’t wait to show you guys!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 02, 2020, 09:08:05 AM
kix,
I have been fighting with stability for Green Banana’s 7000 RPM spinner.  I can’t get it to remain stable.  I’m at my wits end, and suspect that I might need to make some drastic changes to spinner physics to make it work.

Ugh.

Edit: min's Poison Arrow is mostly stable.  It has a lot of gyro lift, but it doesn't self-destruct like Green Banana.  As far as I can tell, the biggest difference is that Green Banana has a very small spinner.  Poison Arrow has a wide drum.  Two thoughts:

1. It takes less radial force to apply a stabilizing torque to a wider drum.

...or...

2. Things are wonky because 3000 RPM coincides with 50 revolutions per second.  At a 100 fps physics tick rate that means that the spinner rotates 180 degrees, computes physics collisions and restoring forces, rotates 180 degrees, computes physics collisions and restoring forces, etc...  At 3000 RPM, the physics forces are always one direction, then 180 degrees opposite, then back to the original direction.  This is the perfect recipe for resonance and exploding spinners.  It is even worse at 6000 RPM.  At this speed the weapon is always in exactly the same position, but with a massive speed.  This means it is always going to experience a huge force in one direction.

To permanently fix the problem I suspect that I will have to somehow keep the real speed of the spinner below 2500 RPM or so, while having a "virtual speed" that goes higher.  It is a mess conceptually.  It breaks physics.  I don't like it.  Agh.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on June 02, 2020, 01:01:19 PM
Maybe it would work to have the spinner itself have a rpm limit, but the game will continue to up the damage like the rpm is still increasing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 02, 2020, 01:06:49 PM
kix,
I have been fighting with stability for Green Banana’s 7000 RPM spinner.  I can’t get it to remain stable.  I’m at my wits end, and suspect that I might need to make some drastic changes to spinner physics to make it work.

Ugh.

Edit: min's Poison Arrow is mostly stable.  It has a lot of gyro lift, but it doesn't self-destruct like Green Banana.  As far as I can tell, the biggest difference is that Green Banana has a very small spinner.  Poison Arrow has a wide drum.  Two thoughts:

1. It takes less radial force to apply a stabilizing torque to a wider drum.

...or...

2. Things are wonky because 3000 RPM coincides with 50 revolutions per second.  At a 100 fps physics tick rate that means that the spinner rotates 180 degrees, computes physics collisions and restoring forces, rotates 180 degrees, computes physics collisions and restoring forces, etc...  At 3000 RPM, the physics forces are always one direction, then 180 degrees opposite, then back to the original direction.  This is the perfect recipe for resonance and exploding spinners.  It is even worse at 6000 RPM.  At this speed the weapon is always in exactly the same position, but with a massive speed.  This means it is always going to experience a huge force in one direction.

To permanently fix the problem I suspect that I will have to somehow keep the real speed of the spinner below 2500 RPM or so, while having a "virtual speed" that goes higher.  It is a mess conceptually.  It breaks physics.  I don't like it.  Agh.
I dont think i really have that issue, i will have to check it again, could be a build problem possibly?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 02, 2020, 02:47:32 PM
Eureka!  The instability occurred because Physics Tick Rate was set at 100 ticks/second.

So:

100 ticks/sec = spinners break at 3000 RPM
200 ticks/sec = spinners break at 6000 RPM
300 ticks/sec = spinners break at 9000 RPM
400 ticks/sec = spinners break at 12,000 RPM
500 ticks/sec = spinners break at 15,000 RPM

Edit:  I suppose we need to design the game so it runs well at 300 ticks/second.  The right answer is probably still to limit the actual RPM to 2500 or so, then fake it above that value.  Things that would need to be faked:

RPM
kinetic energy
angular momentum
motor back EMF / back torque
air drag

It is ironic to me that in order to run the game so that it will handle the cheapest spinner robots (beetleweight spinners at 15,000 RPM), you have to have a more expensive CPU.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on June 02, 2020, 03:41:56 PM
No worries!  You definitely have given me a few more things to chew on.  There is no thermal or electrical model for the battery or ESC.  I need to decide how far to go with this before it isn’t fun.

The Maytech motors are so tiny!  Wow!

Exactly why we went that direction!

And yeah, that does seem like a lot of curves and efficiencies and thermal modeling and math. Maybe if current limiting ends up modeled in, it becomes hard top-end limits for many controllers? Nobody will be having fun with their robot burning out 90 seconds into a fight due to overheating anyhow. So instead there would just be a hard upper limit. Like "Trampa VESC Mk3, Provides 60A up to 14S" or whatever the actual specs are. So then you end up just having a slow robot if you under-gear (like HUGE 2019).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 02, 2020, 03:47:57 PM
Eureka!  The instability occurred because Physics Tick Rate was set at 100 ticks/second.

So:

100 ticks/sec = spinners break at 3000 RPM
200 ticks/sec = spinners break at 6000 RPM
300 ticks/sec = spinners break at 9000 RPM
400 ticks/sec = spinners break at 12,000 RPM
500 ticks/sec = spinners break at 15,000 RPM

Edit:  I suppose we need to design the game so it runs well at 300 ticks/second.  The right answer is probably still to limit the actual RPM to 2500 or so, then fake it above that value.  Things that would need to be faked:

RPM
kinetic energy
angular momentum
motor back EMF / back torque
air drag

It is ironic to me that in order to run the game so that it will handle the cheapest spinner robots (beetleweight spinners at 15,000 RPM), you have to have a more expensive CPU.

Tbh, its 2020, and from what i have heared, either people can run it at 400+tick no problem, or they cant run it at all.
So there should not be a problem to run it at 9000 tip rpm without faking. The question is, how high can we go tickwise? 1000?

IMO faking is a good possibility, but im not a fan of it very much
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 02, 2020, 03:58:15 PM
Part of our target audience is school computer labs and laptops.  With the optimizations in the newest build my Macbook Pro can handle it.  I need to test out school Windows 10 laptops.

We are putting the game on our local community college computers in a few weeks. I’ll know more then...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 07:07:51 AM
The final(???) bleeding edge build is out before the next Alpha:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

This one has quite a few changes, mostly to support particles when you hit things with a spinner.  There are a few performance and stability improvements as well.

[Added] Sparks now occur for hits on Steel, Hardox, and Titanium.

[Added] Shard particles now occur for Wood, Plastic, and Metal.

[Added] Spark and shard particles vary depending on whether the hit was a glancing blow or a solid hit.

[Added] Added UTS for all materials. This is only used for bite. Hard materials are easier to bite. UHMW is very difficult to bite into.

[Added] Spinner hits discriminate between "Good Hit" and "Glancing Blow". Good hits push target in direction of spinner. Glancing blows push robots directly apart. [TODO] This will need testing and tweaking for all softer materials. Right now it is likely that small, fast drum spinners will not be able to damage UHMW at all. [TODO] Damage has not been implemented.

[Changed] Rewritten the Armour Materials List into a more logical order.

[Added] New armours: Cardboard, MDF, HDPE, Carbon Fiber, Expanded Steel, Decoration - Vinyl, Decoration - Faux Fur, Blueprint

[Tweaked] Reduced the default ambient temperature of all motors to 21 degrees. It was previous set for 40 degrees for testing purposes. 21 degrees matches the temperature of most indoor arenas. The reduction in ambient temperature will increase the heat dissipation of motors.

[Bug Fix] Titanium now has the correct density (4500 kg / m^3).  It was previously set to be denser than steel.

[Added] "Remove Plate" material now works!  If you add the "Remove Plate" material to a plate, its collider is removed.  You can now make slots in your chassis.

[Added] Colliders are automatically disabled for certain armors.  These include "Decoration", "Remove Plate", "Vinyl", "Faux Fur", and "Blueprint".  If you set objects to have these materials, everything will pass right through them.  This reduces the physics CPU load significantly for highly decorated robots.

[Changed] Small performance improvements done to the botlab highlight system.  The highlighter is now cleaner looking and more performant. 

[Changed] Check out the cool blue chassis builder!  This was a side benefit of the new shader we are using in the botlab.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a bug where not all of the child colliders in a spinner were being disabled. This was causing problems with some weapons, leading to some spinners being out of balance and not able to get up to speed.

[Tweaked] Default Physics Tick Rate is now set to 300 ticks/second instead. This is based on the game needing to support 8000+ RPM spinners.  The faster you set the tick rate, the higher speed the game will allow spinners to go.  The cost is that high physics tick rates are significantly more demanding on your CPU.  My MacBook Pro can only handle around 300 ticks/second in an AI battle.

[Bug Fix] Motor max RPM is now limited by the physics tick rate in GameSettings. The formula is max RPM = 27 x physics tick rate. This completely prevents the instability that occurs when RPM = 30 x tick rate.  NOTE - This means you need a fast computer to run a 14,000 RPM beetleweight spinner!

[Added] Added warning in spinner telemetry if spinner speed is too fast for the physics tick rate.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on June 03, 2020, 07:22:59 AM
I also made Hubs and Tires lighter as per y'alls request :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 07:25:36 AM
This build is intended to be the summer tournament build.  CodeSilver, kix, would you mind taking a look at it with an eye for how it will play on Parsec/online?

After this build we are going back into development and adding new features and breaking things. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 03, 2020, 09:52:36 AM
There's a thing I've noticed is the fight is even easier to get crashed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 10:09:13 AM
There's a thing I've noticed is the fight is even easier to get crashed.

Drat.  Can you show me how to replicate it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 03, 2020, 10:18:52 AM
There's a thing I've noticed is the fight is even easier to get crashed.
Drat.  Can you show me how to replicate it?
ehhh I don't know how to describe, it just happens randomly. I'll try to record some examples
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 03, 2020, 10:29:46 AM
This build is intended to be the summer tournament build.  CodeSilver, kix, would you mind taking a look at it with an eye for how it will play on Parsec/online?

After this build we are going back into development and adding new features and breaking things. :)
Ill see what i can do
Work, mental state overall and not caring about this forum meant that RR2 has taken a backseat, by a lot actually. I still havent tested the build of the game, but ill download it in a few hours most likely
Also wouldnt it be better for the tournament to have damage on?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 10:45:16 AM
Thank you!  I get it about burnout.  How would you guys feel about a parsec tournament with the developers?  We could come up with a list of improvements while we are at it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 03, 2020, 10:48:50 AM
Thank you!  I get it about burnout.  How would you guys feel about a parsec tournament with the developers?  We could come up with a list of improvements while we are at it.
It would be nice. You guys have discord? We prefer to host it there as voice chat is a godsend
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 11:05:40 AM
We do.  We just started using Discord last week and it has been great so far.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 03, 2020, 11:09:15 AM
We do.  We just started using Discord last week and it has been great so far.
Nice, so how would we go arrangement wise? Im free this week
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 03, 2020, 11:25:59 AM
My laptop gets a bit laggy when doing full-screen recording but it's ok, so yea here's the video.

https://youtu.be/fHv6jzq6Slk

And if you want bots shown in the vid
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 11:43:18 AM
My laptop gets a bit laggy when doing full-screen recording but it's ok, so yea here's the video.

https://youtu.be/fHv6jzq6Slk

And if you want bots shown in the vid

This is gold!  Thank you.  I haven't seen the same problems with my robots, but I suspect I'm not pushing them hard enough. :)

I will try to find and fix the bugs by Friday.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 11:44:26 AM
We do.  We just started using Discord last week and it has been great so far.
Nice, so how would we go arrangement wise? Im free this week

This week we are finding and fixing bugs.  Next week I'm building real-life robots.  What about two weeks from now?  That will give me time to figure out child care too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 03, 2020, 12:04:57 PM
We do.  We just started using Discord last week and it has been great so far.
Nice, so how would we go arrangement wise? Im free this week

This week we are finding and fixing bugs.  Next week I'm building real-life robots.  What about two weeks from now?  That will give me time to figure out child care too.
I might be available in 2 weeks. Yall have a server ill be able to join for the tournament?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 03, 2020, 01:19:41 PM
We do!

How many people do you think might be interested?  Due to family constraints I can only commit to three hours.  Maybe 8 robots total?  That would give us time to talk about stuff as we are going.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 03, 2020, 01:30:00 PM
We do!

How many people do you think might be interested?  Due to family constraints I can only commit to three hours.  Maybe 8 robots total?  That would give us time to talk about stuff as we are going.
Yeah 8 robots is pretty great. If youre thinking of it as a proper tournament. I remember doing 32 bot tournament in few hours, single bracket wise so 16 shouldnt be a gamble, 2 bots per person. Due to timezone differences, i most likely wouldnt be able to do more than 3 hours so thats a thing. You say that youll be ready in two weeks. Any possible date? Tbh date isnt really a problem, im really more interested in time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 04, 2020, 12:09:26 AM
I still have no idea how remove plates work
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 04:07:22 AM
Uh oh.  That looks like a highlighter selection bug.  I'm assuming you are clicking on the turquoise cylinder, but a scale has been applied to it and the highlighter is not scaling correctly.

Removable plate material should work like this:
1. Click on a mesh and select the "Remove Plate" material instead of "Steel".
2. In the botlab the mesh should become invisible.
3. When you go to the test cage, the mesh is invisible and its collider is removed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 04, 2020, 04:14:24 AM
Uh oh.  That looks like a highlighter selection bug.  I'm assuming you are clicking on the turquoise cylinder, but a scale has been applied to it and the highlighter is not scaling correctly.

Removable plate material should work like this:
1. Click on a mesh and select the "Remove Plate" material instead of "Steel".
2. In the botlab the mesh should become invisible.
3. When you go to the test cage, the mesh is invisible and its collider is removed.
Oh it was my comprehension problem. There actually is a smaller cylinder with remove plate placing through the huge cyinder.

I thought it was like placing a remove plate into a steel plate, then I can remove a part of the steel plate like digging a hole in it.

Would this be a thing in the future?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 07:03:49 AM
Unfortunately, no.

Boolean subtraction is crazy hard to do for arbitrary shapes.  It would be awesome to have it though! :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 07:20:52 AM
I found and hopefully fixed a crashing bug that occurred when you stalled out a spinner weapon.  It would only occur for spinner weapons.

The moment of inertia would temporarily become undefined, making physics forces undefined, making it impossible for physics to determine the state of the robot, thus crashing the game.

Does this fit what you guys are seeing for crashes?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 04, 2020, 07:21:19 AM
Unfortunately, no.

Boolean subtraction is crazy hard to do for arbitrary shapes.  It would be awesome to have it though! :)

What about making the part invisible to look like it's removed? I guess it might be the same way as how hollow cylinders are made?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 07:34:29 AM
Unfortunately, no.

Boolean subtraction is crazy hard to do for arbitrary shapes.  It would be awesome to have it though! :)

What about making the part invisible to look like it's removed? I think it might be the same way as how hollow cylinders are made?

The problem with boolean subtraction is that at some point you need to make a new mesh composed of many more triangles than the number of triangles in the original meshes.

The photo below shows an extremely simple example.  The 6-sided cube starts with 12 triangles.  When you slice it with a plane, the resulting 7-sided shape now has 23 triangles.  This gets MUCH worse for more complex shapes like cylinders:

(https://doc.cgal.org/latest/Polygon_mesh_processing/clip_open_close.png)

Boolean subtraction isn't impossible to do, but it is very difficult with a lot of edge cases (pun intended).  When you get it wrong you end up with invisible surfaces and shapes that break physics in unpredictable ways.

EDIT: Once the Arena Modding Tool is complete kupatec is planning to switch over to working on the Component Modding Tool (CMT).  The CMT will allow users to create meshes with arbitrary shapes in Blender, an amazing suite of free software with a complete set of Boolean Subtraction tools.  You will be able to create anything you want, then bring those shapes into the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 04, 2020, 07:45:33 AM
Unfortunately, no.

Boolean subtraction is crazy hard to do for arbitrary shapes.  It would be awesome to have it though! :)

What about making the part invisible to look like it's removed? I think it might be the same way as how hollow cylinders are made?

The problem with boolean subtraction is that at some point you need to make a new mesh composed of many more triangles than the number of triangles in the original meshes.

The photo below shows an extremely simple example.  The 6-sided cube starts with 12 triangles.  When you slice it with a plane, the resulting 7-sided shape now has 23 triangles.  This gets MUCH worse for more complex shapes like cylinders:

(https://doc.cgal.org/latest/Polygon_mesh_processing/clip_open_close.png)

Yea I kinda know that. I mean what if we make the part that's overlaps by the remove plate and steel plate invisible, the collision is still there but it just looks like it's removed.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 07:53:53 AM
You could make all of the surfaces invisible, or none invisible, but you can't make a portion of the surface invisible.  You have to create entirely new surfaces from scratch that conform to the shape you want to remove.  These new surfaces contain many more triangles than you started with.  This involves a lot of complicated algorithms that are really easy to mess up.

The "blur cylinder" that was much-hated and eventually removed was my first attempt at doing procedural mesh creation.  I'm out. :)  tashic's chassis and shape creator is more successful, but these are both much easier to do than boolean subtraction.  I believe it took Blender about 20 years (1998 - 2019) to get their Boolean tool to the point it is today.  The tool is pretty good, but it is still a little buggy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 08:27:42 AM
I think the crashing bug is squashed!  Here is the latest (04June2020) bleeding edge build:

http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/ (http://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/)

[Bug Fix] Fixed crashing bug for spinning weapons caused by an undefined moment of inertia.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 04, 2020, 09:17:22 AM
Now i wonder if we could keep the collision but just make the parts have a hole. Ik roblox has that feature iirc
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 09:21:01 AM
Now i wonder if we could keep the collision but just make the parts have a hole. Ik roblox has that feature iirc

The hard part is creating creating the correct visual display for the mesh.  Once that is done creating a collision shape is done with a single line of code.

EDIT:  For a physics hole it requires more work, but the hardest part is still creating the visual mesh.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 09:23:40 AM
kix, I forgot to ask, but does the new botlab shader keep your GPU cooler?  The new shader should be slightly more efficient.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 04, 2020, 09:55:47 AM
kix, I forgot to ask, but does the new botlab shader keep your GPU cooler?  The new shader should be slightly more efficient.
Tbh, kupa limited the game to 60fps, so my gpu already got cooler back 2 builds ago

Also an idea in controls section. God editing incoming:
Yeah ok this forum is ass and because i cant insert attachment at all i have to upload it to youtube
https://youtu.be/G7V2h1rBnrY
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 04, 2020, 06:34:11 PM
We just heard back from the community college.  They won’t be ready for in person tournaments until October.  That means we have some time.  We will put out this as a stable release tomorrow morning, then take our time getting damage, pneumatics, and crushers working properly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 05, 2020, 05:35:30 AM
We just heard back from the community college.  They won’t be ready for in person tournaments until October.  That means we have some time.  We will put out this as a stable release tomorrow morning, then take our time getting damage, pneumatics, and crushers working properly.
That gives you more time to prepare as people say.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 05, 2020, 07:04:20 AM
Something I'm curious about: As we already have overheating for bots to disable their own motors, would self-damage be as high as before or maybe just get removed and replaced by overheating?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 05, 2020, 08:08:41 AM
Something I'm curious about: As we already have overheating for bots to disable their own motors, would self-damage be as high as before or maybe just get removed and replaced by overheating?

I envisioned physical damage and damage due to heat to be two separate things. 

1. Overheating is completely avoidable if you are willing to play it safe with battery voltage.  The AmpFlows can run all day at the 24 volts for which they are rated.  Maybe we need to include rated voltage in the motor description so people have an idea of what a "safe" voltage is?

2. Over the next few weeks I am going to take what we have learned about damage in previous builds and rewriting damage from scratch.  Is your fear that self damage has been too much of a factor in previous builds?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 05, 2020, 08:36:15 AM

1. Overheating is completely avoidable if you are willing to play it safe with battery voltage.  The AmpFlows can run all day at the 24 volts for which they are rated.  Maybe we need to include rated voltage in the motor description so people have an idea of what a "safe" voltage is?

I think we need this. On the other side, driving motors are not a problem with overheating (at least not for me now). The problem is always with spinner motors like etek or pancake etek. My pancake etek for disc spinners run at 40 volts and 2200 rpm but still overheat within 1 minute fight.
https://youtu.be/t02-iDgeQzw

2. Over the next few weeks I am going to take what we have learned about damage in previous builds and rewriting damage from scratch.  Is your fear that self damage has been too much of a factor in previous builds?


Ya we think the self-damage in previous builds was already a bit too high, and now we also have overheating, so yea, it should be lower.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 05, 2020, 08:55:21 AM
I thought that eteks were prone to overheating too easy. But then i was running them at 48v (although iirc they can easily take 48v)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 05, 2020, 09:06:35 AM
I thought that eteks were prone to overheating too easy. But then i was running them at 48v (although iirc they can easily take 48v)
But shouldn't your headbanging verts survive less time?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 05, 2020, 09:31:31 AM
I thought that eteks were prone to overheating too easy. But then i was running them at 48v (although iirc they can easily take 48v)
But shouldn't your headbanging verts survive less time?
I am using brushless motors for verts, and unlike brushed they can take higher voltages easily afaik
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 05, 2020, 11:42:44 AM
The 05June2020 Alpha Builds are up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Nothing new from the bleeding edge builds that we have previously discussed in the past two weeks.  The big change from the last Alpha Build is that electrical systems are now a thing.  You have to include the following to get a robot to work:

- A receiver.  Each channel of the receiver must be set to the appropriate type of control from your radio transmitter.  Left Drive, Right Drive, Single Throw Toggle, etc.
- At least one battery.  The battery voltage you pick is important.  If you choose too low of a voltage, your robot will be sluggish.  If you choose too high of a voltage, your motors will overheat and burn out.
- If you have a weapon, you will need either a second battery (usually at a higher voltage) or a battery hub (to save weight).  This hub will send power to your drive ESC (usually a 2x60 Amp ESC) and to your weapon ESC (either another brushed ESC or a brushless ESC, depending on the motor you choose).
- You will need enough ESCs to handle all of your motors.  ESCs are either single-channel or 2-channel.
- Motors.  Most robots nowadays use brushed ESCs for drive, but it is up to you.  Lighter motors heat up (and cool down) more quickly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 05, 2020, 11:44:30 AM
I thought that eteks were prone to overheating too easy. But then i was running them at 48v (although iirc they can easily take 48v)
But shouldn't your headbanging verts survive less time?
I am using brushless motors for verts, and unlike brushed they can take higher voltages easily afaik

The brushless motors have current limits. This keeps them a lot cooler, but you have to gear them down to keep spinup time short.

Kix, what voltage/gear ratio are you using for brushless?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 05, 2020, 11:50:42 AM
I thought that eteks were prone to overheating too easy. But then i was running them at 48v (although iirc they can easily take 48v)
But shouldn't your headbanging verts survive less time?
I am using brushless motors for verts, and unlike brushed they can take higher voltages easily afaik

The brushless motors have current limits. This keeps them a lot cooler, but you have to gear them down to keep spinup time short.

Kix, what voltage/gear ratio are you using for brushless?
Ngl gearings don't affect spinup time that much on brushless. On the contrary I think brushless should be geared up to have more tip speed due to its insane cooling ability yet eteks should be geared down to keep away from overheating.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on June 07, 2020, 07:55:12 AM
It's amazing how far this has come. My guess is that it's still to hard for me to build anything in this but it looks great. Keep up the good work guys!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 07, 2020, 08:13:32 AM
Hey all!
Robot Rumble 2 has now an official server!
https://discord.gg/tXwYay9

Come and say hi!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 07, 2020, 10:51:22 AM
It's amazing how far this has come. My guess is that it's still to hard for me to build anything in this but it looks great. Keep up the good work guys!

Thank you!  We’re proud of it, but we still have a looong way to go before it is ready for commercial release.  In the meantime it is crazy cool to see people getting excited about it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 08, 2020, 06:08:01 AM
Phew!

Thanks for that kix!

From here on out, the most active discussions will be on the Official RR2 Discord Server.  I'm still planning to post occasionally here, but if you want the latest scoop head on over to the Discord.  All the cool kids (and older people too!) are doing it!

Official RR2 Discord Server:

https://discord.gg/tXwYay9 (https://discord.gg/tXwYay9)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 19, 2020, 10:25:16 AM
Hey yall!

Time for a minor progress reveal, an addition to the game that is welcome.

Connecting Batteries in Series and Parallel has been added.
What does this do? If you connect multiple batteries in series, the voltage of the motors will rise (sum of the voltages of the connected batteries)
Here is an example of an A40-300 connected to 2 batteries in series, running at 96.2V (48.1V+48.1V)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/514931284825604100/723547780575920180/unknown.png)

If you connect multiple batteries into parallel, the voltage of the motors will be same.Here is an example of an A28-400 running with 2 batteries connected in parallel, running at 37V
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/514931284825604100/723550752575848478/unknown.png)
This can be tested on the bleeding edge build right away, but it will be released in a stable build too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 19, 2020, 12:14:42 PM
Developer’s comment:

Overvolting a motor rated for 24 volts all the way to 96 volts is extremely dangerous and not recommended!  Even though it might be okay in the game (for now), please try to keep the AmpFlows to 48 volts or below.  A lot of competitors have learned the hard way that AmpFlows can fry themselves when run this high.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 19, 2020, 12:43:32 PM
Developer’s comment:

Overvolting a motor rated for 24 volts all the way to 96 volts is extremely dangerous and not recommended!  Even though it might be okay in the game (for now), please try to keep the AmpFlows to 48 volts or below.  A lot of competitors have learned the hard way that AmpFlows can fry themselves when run this high.

That is true indeed. I was just showing what can be done
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 19, 2020, 02:13:37 PM
Developer’s comment:

Overvolting a motor rated for 24 volts all the way to 96 volts is extremely dangerous and not recommended!  Even though it might be okay in the game (for now), please try to keep the AmpFlows to 48 volts or below.  A lot of competitors have learned the hard way that AmpFlows can fry themselves when run this high.

That is true indeed. I was just showing what can be done

I’m going to limit this when I get a chance.  We don’t have a system in place for that yet though.  Maybe if you go above 48 volts the motor melts immediately...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 19, 2020, 04:25:01 PM
Developer’s comment:

Overvolting a motor rated for 24 volts all the way to 96 volts is extremely dangerous and not recommended!  Even though it might be okay in the game (for now), please try to keep the AmpFlows to 48 volts or below.  A lot of competitors have learned the hard way that AmpFlows can fry themselves when run this high.

That is true indeed. I was just showing what can be done

I’m going to limit this when I get a chance.  We don’t have a system in place for that yet though.  Maybe if you go above 48 volts the motor melts immediately...
Tbh, i would keep it as is, as atm, they are kinda saving the flippers. More voltage/more torque for the motor. Atleast keep it till the pneumatics get added
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 19, 2020, 04:28:43 PM
True.  I think if you could go to 96 volts on a motor this size you might see a lot fewer pneumatic systems IRL. Motors are just easier.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 19, 2020, 04:51:51 PM
True.  I think if you could go to 96 volts on a motor this size you might see a lot fewer pneumatic systems IRL. Motors are just easier.
They truly are. We just need to figure out the jankines when on gearing higher than 10:0.1
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development [New Build Up]
Post by: kix on July 06, 2020, 09:12:30 AM
The 05July2020 Alpha Builds are up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

[Short Summary of Updates in the July 5th Build]

NOTE - If you want to see the full gory detail of all of the changes, discussions, and hacks, check out #bug-reports and #feedback-and-ideas on our official Discord server.

[Performance Improvement] Colliders on all attachments are now combined into a single mesh collider.  This should substantially improve physics performance for complicated robots.

[Added] It is now possible to attach batteries in series to create arbitrarily high voltages.  Please note that voltage limits will be enforced in future builds!  Unlimited voltage will exist until we have pneumatics ready.

[Added] LOTS of new components.

[Added] Saw Bots vs High Impact Spinners - The game can now analyze a spinner to determine the location of its "teeth".  If you design a weapon with lots of teeth it will act as a saw bot and grind away when it hits.  If you design it with few teeth it will act as an impacting weapon, delivering a lot of energy in a single blow.

[Changed] The restriction on spinner speed has been removed.  The game now compensates for whatever physics tick rate you have set and computes the correct spinner response.  15,000 RPM antweight spinners should now be possible.


A FEW NOTES ABOUT THIS BUILD

If you are struggling to get your motor electronics working, please head on over to Discord.  We have an active community there with a channel dedicated to #rr2-support:

https://discord.gg/tXwYay9 (https://discord.gg/tXwYay9)

Damage System - The damage system is disabled.

AI - Still mostly broken.  For the most part all the AI does is turn on its weapon at the beginning of the match and keep driving at the nearest opponent.  Once the new damage system has been straightened out we will redesign AI around the new approach to damage.

Once the game is mature enough we will be replacing all of the house robots with ones built in the robot workshop.  Any bugs that exist in the current robots will be completely replaced by entirely new bugs at that time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 25, 2020, 07:52:34 AM
A little sneak peek of what is to come


(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/588371544175280128/736564203925667941/Screen_Shot_2020-07-25_at_7.42.49_AM.png)


Flipper Piston Systems: 30, 60, 90, and 120 mm, Connected Piston System, Pneumatic Piston (linear actuation) and 2 x Rack and Pinion Systems in the back.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on July 25, 2020, 11:20:13 PM
those look dope
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 02, 2020, 06:49:53 PM
Next stable build might include something that is fire (boo, bad pun)

Shout-out to this forum that completely doesnt work, and it wont accept my attachment

Link to the Flamethrowers gif: https://imgur.com/8TZpYCx (https://imgur.com/8TZpYCx)

There is also a turntable ingame (Just like in Robot Wars reboot), but im not even gonna bother
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 090901 on September 02, 2020, 09:36:49 PM
since kix doesnt know how to image tags
(https://i.imgur.com/8TZpYCx.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 03, 2020, 04:09:56 AM
since kix doesnt know how to image tags
(https://i.imgur.com/8TZpYCx.gif)
Nah, i know, i just get the broken pic icon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development [New build up]
Post by: kix on September 23, 2020, 04:02:27 PM
The 23rd September Build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Here is a "short" list of added stuff, for the full changelog list from previous Bleeding Edge builds, join the discord group:
- UI has been revamped.
- Botlab look has been overhauled
- Turntable has been added! now you can do a full 360 of your bot and gif it
- Test Arena has been revamped. OOTA zones are added
- Pneumatics have been added, ranging from pistons themselves (with a rather nice variety), to Gas tanks and Buffer tanks, as shown few posts up
- Gas usage has been implemented.
- Fixed an issue where the spinner would grind the floor instead of properly hitting it
- Servo has been overhauled
- Thermals have been overhauled
- The dreaded resolution issue has been fixed
- FPS lock has been added, based on your monitor's refresh rates
- MANY more additions and performance improvements

A FEW NOTES ABOUT THIS BUILD

If you are struggling to get your motor electronics working, please head on over to Discord.  We have an active community there with a channel dedicated to #rr2-support:
https://discord.gg/tXwYay9 (https://discord.gg/tXwYay9)

This build is now "physics complete".  You should be able to model most combat robots you see in real life in the game: bar spinners, drum spinners, pneumatic flippers, servo-driven lifters and grabbers, wedges, and rambots. 
NOTE - The game doesn't support things like tank treads, omnidirectional wheels, or 4-bar linkages.  We might consider adding them later, but our priority is to finish the game first.  You can simulate many of these motions by combining existing mechanisms in the game.
Damage System - The damage system is disabled.  Damage and component breakage will be the focus of the next stable build.
AI - Still mostly broken.  For the most part all the AI does is turn on its weapon at the beginning of the match and keep driving at the nearest opponent.  Once the new damage system has been straightened out we will redesign AI around the new approach to damage.
Once the game is mature enough we will be replacing all of the house robots with ones built in the robot workshop.  Any bugs that exist in the current robots will be completely replaced by entirely new bugs at that time.
 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Sage on August 31, 2021, 11:31:47 AM
No updates since a year ago? Lame
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on August 31, 2021, 12:13:31 PM
No updates since a year ago? Lame
No mr. Sage man, you see we dont post on gtm anymore, we have transferred to discord as it is waaay better.

Game is going well, we got damage up and running again, we are working on welding, and many more things
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on August 31, 2021, 09:37:24 PM
Yeah, latest builds are now being put on https://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

Latest "stable" build is May 28th where things can catch on fire and batteries drain and stuff. 
July 15th introduces welding (aka components now stick together regardless of what they're parented too).  It's in its infancy so I don't recommend it yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: PixelCrunchX on October 08, 2021, 06:45:59 PM
Looking forward to this! Hopefully it'll turn out better than Robot Arena 3!

(OOPS DID I SAY THAT OUT LOUD)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on December 15, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Since no one's been posting them, this is the most recent update. 

Quote
[Update] We updated to Unity 2020.3.21! This should come with better performance and might fix our mac struggles! It might also introduce some new bugs...
[Bugfix] Changed collision detection on wheels to prevent snipes through the armor
[Bugfix] Fixed a bunch of weight scaling issues (sounds, pneumas etc.)
[Bugfix] Fixed a major part of Groaties/floaties. Stuff that gets broken off can still clip but should be much less dramatic
[Bugfix] Fixed AI, it now runs at half CPU but actually works this time
[Change] New take at spinner physics, involved an epic amount of changes
[Change] Changed mass scaling to be 1:1 (aka 10 times heavier then before). This makes spinners behave better and gives bot a much heavier feel.

Known issues:
- Highlighting in botlab is borked
- Hinged bits/rotating body groups are mostly invincible, welding doesnt work correctly on them yet

Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LScURdGKPRKSirVi3iGGXK23n-tmCvv9/view

Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LzzzQL15tsib_y8Cuey8D1HcGm7QqbE-/view
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on December 24, 2021, 10:36:18 AM
I still have to check out the recent updates. Haven't played this for at least 2 years
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on December 25, 2021, 10:33:38 PM
I still have to check out the recent updates. Haven't played this for at least 2 years

everyone is cracked now
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on January 13, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
New Bleeding Edge is out.  It hasn't been thoroughly tested yet, so don't be surprised when unexpected things happen.

Quote
New Bleeding Edge build: JAN13

This build fixes some issues with welding around hinged groups (everything that spins/rotates)
An important thing to know is that the first placed object on a hinge/chain/belt/etc will be the root component of said group,
this root component part is invincible for now.
Parts that dont have a physical connection to the root component or hinge/chain/belt/etc will fall off on spawn, just like unwelded parts on the chassis.
This can be tricky to fix, because the highlighting of unwelded components it currently not working for hinged groups. This will be fixed later.

The fixed welding causes EVERYTHING apart from root components to be capable of getting damaged, including spinners.
The strenght of a part is mostly determained by the material and the material thickness, set by the slider in the materials tab.
You should always try to get this thickness slider as high as possible on weapons and armor, since this will greatly improve the strength.
You should imagine parts you place as being hollow and that the slider determains the thickness of the walls of the hollow part.
So to get the physical thickness of your part, you should multiply the slider number by two, it will then also be correct with the scaling value.
(A 0.1 scale box will be 10mm thick, the slider will go to a max of 5mm and and the part will then be solid and maximum strength)
There will likely be bots that need fixing, but most weld issues can be fixed by putting an axle through the hinge/chain/belt and the root component.
Just make sure everything is touching physically; parts cant float in midair in the real world either (unless some substances are used. Probably.)

Please report any issues with getting things to weld in #rr2-support and things that seem to actually be bugged in #Bugreports and #Bugchatter
Have fun playing, idlove to hear what you thing of this new build!

Changelog:
[Bugfix] Added massScaleFactor to the strength of sprung hinges (no more weak)
[Change] Upped all spring strengths to be 1:1 with before I broke them
[Bugfix] Added missing sounds to some pneumatics
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug in Weld Manager to have it calculate welds on hinged groups
[Change] Damage is now applied to all individual components and their welds
[Change] Belts etc should no longer dissapear at random

WINDOWS:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TV51VGVjpG0kAX9TSsWTpDq0rM3vktuE/view?usp=sharing

MAC:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TwtO0r1yUbRT735FH6Wj8JgPHMryRsBU/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on January 19, 2022, 12:25:23 PM
This is my job here now.

Quote
New bleeding edge: JAN19!
Today we bring ARM DAMAGE and ENERGY DISSIPATION!

Arm damage: how does it work?
Anything that is not classed as a wheel or spinner and that has a tip speed of more than 0,6 m/s will become an arm capable of doing damage.
The arm does damage based on the kinetic energy it stores at the moment of impact. Kinetic energy is generated by the moment of inertia and speed of the arm.
The damage done is altered by how direct the hit is, how much the material being hit flexes and by what part is doing the impact: Maximum damage will be delivered at the outer tip of the arm and only half damage will be done if you are hitting with a point half way the arm!

Hold up, does that mean my flipper can do damage as well?
Yes, although a flipper generally starts its stroke in contact with the opponent and thus has a very slow- or even no impact, so they wont do much damage.
(Unless there is a mile of acceleration distance and the flipper hits the opponent at massive speed... but then it is basically a hammer...)
Energy Dissipation: how does it work?
So, without getting into really heavy physics: think of hitting a really thick piece of hard steel with a hammer: you will never be able to damage it and it just kinda "gongs" your energy away.
This is now simulated in the game! Every weld/component of a certain material can take a certain amount of abuse without breaking and deforming, in physics we call the point the Yield Strength. (point where something breaks off is the Ultimate Tensile Strength)
You need to beat the Yield Strength with your damage in order to do permanent, lasting damage. Materials like AR-Steel and Titanium have a high yield strength but can still take allot of abuse after they have been permanently deformed and thus are very tough.
Materials like rubber are very elastic but instantly break once you cross this elastic point and a material like Carbon fiber has a very high strength and is a bit flexible, but it will instantly crack once you go above the yield strength!

Okay cool physics and all... but how exactly does the game do this?
Every weld has a maximum amount of hit points (~= ultimate tensile strength * overlap * length * thickness^2).
And every weld has a yield threshold (~= yield strength * overlap * length * thickness^2).
The damage needs to be more than the yield threshold, if it is not enough then the weld will dissipate the damage away and no damage is done.
If the damage IS more than the yield treshold, then all the damage that goes over the yield will take hit points away!
Repeat until broken!

NOTE: Notice how the hit point equation has thickness^2, if you make something twice as thick, it will be FOUR times as strong!
Changes:
[Added] Allot more material variables to help aid in simulation of flex etc.
[Added] Hammer damage! or as I call it "arm damage", swing something at your opponent and it will now do damage! atm it doesnt really care about the hammer head shape (pointy, blunt etc.), but that will come! IMO they are still a bit too clippy, i have some ideas reduce this.
[Added] Energy dissipation! You need to beat a certain energy threshold before you can damage a component/weld. This fixes wheels being broken very easily by spinners AND in the test box AND it much improves the strength of the Tires and Rims, and makes spinners (or in general very thick materials) stronger.
[Change] Switched collision detection of arms to a different option to hopefully reduce clipping and jitter
[Change] Upped the Default Contact Offset from 0.0001 to 0.001, this greatly reduces clipping but might result in slightly different collision interactions (a spinner suddenly slightly hitting the ground)
[Change] Switched collision detection of spinners to a different option to reduce sniping
[Change] CDC can no longer be enabled on chassis components (this caused groaties)
[Change] Enabled the rotation part of Arena damage again.
[Bugfix] Test area props now have correct masses
[Bugfix] Below 100a, the ESC amp limit will round to 1 instead of 10, to make the small ESC,s usable again!
[Bugfix] Fixed all calculations around hinged groups (it was bad...)

Enjoy and let me know what you think!

Windows:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RAorIkj3rjT2zgyWq2vcL1uEpOTJPQ1r/view?usp=sharing

MAC:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19ci37Sr4PJObkl1dHbfSdQWycIgMpAQG/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on January 30, 2022, 12:35:52 PM
Quote
New Bleeding Edge: JAN30!

Changes:
[Added] 2 additional LEM sizes: 170, 200! The 170 likes about 60v and 250/300a, the 200 likes up to 84v and 300/350a, both will do just above 400a for short time
[Change] Changed spinner bite, below a certain bite treshhold spinners are much more likely to grind
[Change] Changed physics stuff around spinners to make them less spastic and hit a little less hard
[Change] Disabled a part of velocityLimiter to not set CCD when something is moving fast. This caused more clipping then it solved
[Change] Stopped velocitylimiter from setting a collisionmode every frame (...?)
[Change] Ever so slightly increased the size of the high speed spinner collider to improve grinding
[Added] Added a slight drag so that spinners spin down (yes this will slightly reduce the maximum spinner speed, deal with it, effect is much worse irl)
[Bugfix] Spawnable crate and additionals are actually 100kg now, also doesnt defy gravity anymore...
[change] Increased the amount of available cameras to 6 (Thank Kris for this)
[Change] Changed a ton of particlesystems to collider with the correct layers, particle FX now look much better
[Change] Improved the look and flow of flamethrowers
[Change] Enabled Speculative collision detection on arm damagers, seems to much reduce clipping, even on pointy tips (only works now because i fixed the velocity limiter thing)
[Bugfix] Fixed a few weird settings on some motors particlesystems
[Bugfix] Fixed a small issue with the collisionmatrix
[Bugfix] LEM's are not scalable...

Enjoy, report bugs and let me know what you think!

Windows:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OPJQBlkmbogl4HqpkvcINS--gcrd5VBv/view?usp=sharing

Mac:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MrnQXJTdeB0VKON79NWd4GiOc2wvmmdx/view?usp=sharing


You'll note that these links list these as V2 due to a few last minute hotfixes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on February 24, 2022, 06:00:17 PM
Quote
New bleeding edge: FEB24

Important!
Hinged groups (arms, spinners, hammers, flippers) can now be broken off with weld damage.
When there is only one part attached to these hinged groups (= invincible root component) they will be broken off!
Belts and chains now respond to the weld system, when they fall off, add a static axle through the pullies!
We noticed gearboxes often dont show up unwelded and dont fall off, while their wheels/spinners randomly fall off: the gearbox is unwelded and needs to be attached to static frame!
There were A TON of bugs fixed creating this, there might be some more left, yet to be discovered...

Procedurally generated spinner hums are still very WIP, especially at higher frequencies they need some work, let us know what you think and how they could be improved!

The weld highlighting system is still not working correctly, sorry for the inconvenience!

We also went through a big project migration, there might be some unforeseen problems, but as far as we know it all works!

Changelog:
[Added] Tetrahedron, half cylinder, sixth cylinder. Attaching the parts is kinda broken atm, USE THESE AT OWN RISK they are WIP
[Added] Superheavyweight weight class
[Added] Spinner hums! still pretty WIP but getting interesting
[Added] Hardox textured variant, rn its paintable where it shouldnt be
[Added] The mighty TriCAT, as inspired by Pardon My French and Madcatter
[Added] Dual TP100 (Say goodbye to those filthy brushes)
[Added] Added motors locking when the maximum rpm/voltage is exceeded for more than 10 seconds: the motor will start to spark, then lock up and short, generally overheating the motor in the process! VOLTAGE LIMITS MATTER NOW!!!
[Added] Belts and chain collisions! (they now need to be "welded" with a static axle through them) (there might be visual bugs around this still)
[Added] Added logic to welding to break off hinged groups in a correct, weld based manner
[Change] Changed FX in botlab (Hello proper green screen...)
[Change] Changed Motor_Script to destroy a motor once Rotor_Max_Rpm is passed for 10 seconds (limits voltage)
[Change] Slightly upped drive motor torque limiter to let robots push better
[Change] Changed wheelmassratiocontroller to subtract the mass it adds, all robots are now physically the same weight, no matter the amount of wheels
[Change] Changed some texture normalmaps (better looking hardox)
[Change] Changed the bot selection menu to three rows
[Change] Set the electronic disable limit to a more realistic 10 joules (50cm drop). 2j was too little.
[Change] Made the armdamager speed threshold higher (10m/s tip) this might give problems for smaller weight classes but we will see about that
[Change] Made spinner hums a little louder
[Change] Updated all motor stats to have correct max_rotor_rpm and voltage values
[Change] Upped the "Flip robot upside down" strength
[Change] If the root component is the only component left in a group, it will break off (otherwise its invincible)
[Change] Some improvements to SpinnerHum sound (no longer plays on pause)
[Change] Tweaked wheel rpms to make them more stable
[Change] Cleaned up spinnerCollisionHandler, it does not aim for (unused) combined damageable objects anymore
[Bugfix] Fixed some collider errors on several motors
[Bugfix] solenoid is now single direction and ON/OFF again
[Bugfix] Both the TP100 and CAT are now inrunner motors as their IRL counterparts(the outside does not spin)
[Bugfix] Arena selection menu is now scrollable
[Bugfix] Fixed wrong tipforce calculation, the other calculations are also likely off
[Bugfix] Reduced sniping of Arm damagers
[Bugfix] Fixed motors being powered while the motor is clearly broken off
[Bugfix] Added logic to not break the game when a hinged group is broken off
[Bugfix] Reordered some damage code so that electronic parts are disabled when they are hit instead of breaking their welds before breaking themselves
[Bugfix] Wheels no longer take damage from the Arena (that took a while...)
[Bugfix] Added AIstate variable back, you guys are going to have to tell me if it works properly...

Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e8t2LI_FB2GkDNYJBv6tOOz09c9_Ik_q/view?usp=sharing

Mac:  Not working atm, will (hopefully) edit later

Edit:  Still no mac build, however this build is notably buggy.  Death hums have also been really irritating to some people.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on March 05, 2022, 04:33:27 PM
We never did get that Mac version.

Quote
New Bleeding edge: MAR5
(Pretty much a FEB24 hotfix)

Changelog:
[Change] modified higher rpm spinner hums, as well as some updated sounds (to make them less annoying)
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where the chassis would be set to 0kg when a wheel is taken off (chassis spazzing outa here)
[Bugfix] Fixed broken off parts getting flipped in the botlab instead of the bot itself

Known issues:
Highlighting of weld is still not working correctly
Chassis parts stay transparant (this is a bug because of Cloud build being broken, the issue occurs because of me doing a local build)

Windows:  https://robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/RR2-Windows-05-MAR-2022-Bleeding-Edge-Build.zip

Mac:  https://robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/RR2-MacOS-05-MAR-2022-Bleeding-Edge-Build.zip

Edit 3/9:  Mac is finally here.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on March 25, 2022, 07:43:11 PM
unity was ****y and didnt want to build cloud
now it does, albeit we have to do it manually
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on April 14, 2022, 08:16:26 PM
Skipped to April 14th, but will include the patch notes of April 13th as well.
Quote
New bleeding edge: APRIL 13
Allot of performance upgrades in this, let me know what improvements you see, enjoy!

Potential issues:
Spinners very "snipey"? doing damage to things they dont really hit?

Changelog:
[Bugfix] Motors will now not randomly spark when not overvolted
[Bugfix] Spinners are now allot less spastic
[Bugfix] Fixed motor "phantom noise" that continued playing after a match was restarted
[Change] Changed spinner damage output: spinners will now do "less" damage to "allot more" things, this likely has some funny effects but we will see (bewerkt)
[Change] Optimised Immobile script for better performance
[Change] Optimised Temperature script for (significantly) better performance
[Change] Optimised Editor COM marker script for better performance
[Change] Disabled component data stream to AIController for a SIGNIFICANT performance increase of all AI scripts
[Change] Added logic to remove all "reverse" meshes and renderers when not in the botlab for a SIGNIFICANT performance increase, especially on high part count robots during fights
[Change] Enabled spinners damaging themselves on static objects
[Change] Rebalanced gyro, drums should now gyro less bad
[Change] Buffed Rubber strength (doesnt really work)
[Change] Upped PSI limit to 2000


New bleeding edge: APRIL 14
Mostly a hotfix for April 13

Changelog:
[Revert] Re-enabled the spinner collision stop timer (so only one component takes damage on a spinner hit)
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where unwired motors create lag
Windows
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ItnHzO2oPYpQznP2nMjU6C4lBpCv2NX9/view?usp=sharing
Mac
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n1Us5hNrwsq5KjDpVYLuDvHETso4osIK/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on April 20, 2022, 10:32:03 PM
I come from the future with a new build (It's still April 20th here)
Quote
New bleeding edge: APRIL 21
Fixed some ennoying issues in regards to ghost collisions and sniping. And some additional ease of life changes!
Enjoy and let me know what you think and report bugs!

Added logging:
I am not completely sure how this works yet, but the game should now generate a log file with all console entries!
This will be very nice for debugging stuff, especially on Mac!
For bug reports ill now often ask for this file!

The logfiles should be created in the following locations:
(idk why the name is different, I can maybe fix that later)

Windows:
%USERPROFILE%\AppData\LocalLow\Nerd Island Studios LLC\Robot Rumble 2.0\Player.log


Mac:
~/Library/Logs/Nerd Island Studios LLC/Robot Rumble 2.0/Player.log


Changelog:
[Added] Added code to spinner collision scripts to much better filter "fake" collisions, this massivly improves sniping and ghost collisions!
[Added] Added code to hammer/arm collision scripts to much better filter "fake" collisions, this massivly improves sniping and ghost collisions!
[Change] Disabled "shock damage" since it didnt really make sense and was more ennoying then it was interesting
[Change] Enabled "sweeping" spinners again, spinners will now damage more then one component per collision
[Change] Tweaked spinner damage output to a more reasonable damage output
[Change] Modified some logic to somewhat improve bite on wedgeless verts
[Change] Reworked weld to break the root component off by its health when all welds to it are broken, now you dont need at least two components to prevent things from falling off! (was honestly super ennoying and dumb)
[Change] Enabled player logs (still testing how this works)
[Change] Upped "non weld" connection strength x3 (atm it doesnt make any sense but at least it will make wheels a little less garbage)
[Bugfix] Fixed an error when Combine meshes only had a single mesh to combine
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug that caused hammers/arms to almost never do damage
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where chains/belts would collide with the simplified group meshes
[Bugfix] Fixed a broken camera reference in bot selection
[BugFix] Fixed and issue where IMPORANT physics numbers would be changed at random, causing differences between botlab and arena fights
[revert] rubber is now correct strength again

IMPORTANT: I tuned to 100% damage again!!

 Win:
 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YI25maT0mbsC3SZW-tLw68v2yo06Hr8d/view?usp=sharing
 
Mac:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BnVTNq1Laxf67wPodwWVyStDpHxiIqF0/view?usp=sharing

Downloading via mac is complicated, so I'll probably only quote this once.
Quote
1. Open terminal
2. Run each of these commands in order
3. Tell terminal to go to your downloads folder where you downloaded the game to cd Downloads
4. Make the game executable chmod +x "RR2_APR14_2022_BLEEDING_EDGE_MAC.app/Contents/MacOS/Robot Rumble 2.0"
5.  Remove the quarantine flag that stops the game from running xattr -r -d com.apple.quarantine RR2_APR14_2022_BLEEDING_EDGE_MAC.app/
6. Close terminal and launch the game! :D
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on May 18, 2022, 03:19:09 PM
Quote
New bleeding edge: MAY16

Changelog:
[Added] Models of camera
[Added] Added "Test" matchtype that enables telemetry mid fight note:  this only works if you change the camera for some reason
[Added] Option for an "infinite time" match, the timer will count up instead of down
[Added] Dark chain!
[Change] Slightly rebalanced spinner damage output
[Change] Added a thing to improve reach verts
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug that caused single part hinged groups to not collide with the floor
[Bugfix] Fixed US style pneumatic system
[Bugfix] Fixed ESC current limit being WACK in 20 different ways
[Bugfix] Quad A28-400 is now centered.
[Bugfix] Arena hazard impulse script now fires more then once
[Bugfix] Fixed heating on LEM 170 and LEM200
[Bugfix] Fixed an issue where electrical components could not be directly disabled by spinners

[Additional] Game has a logfile system, when the game has a bug or something like that it records it in the log file. Please send that when telling about bugs

Win:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y6eGJVd5MlED7_tAmDwsO9zYiBDSnJPi/view?usp=sharing

Mac:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZwP3hnne7CqC-2xuhpU94X4FOk-F1QiB/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on May 23, 2022, 09:26:33 PM
Quote
New bleeding edge: MAY21

Changelog:
[Added] Power output of a motor in telemetry
[Added] Added a static collider on spinners to reduce the distance that they can clip, substantially reducing clipping of spinners
[Added] Added some peculiar logic to Pause Function...
[Added] Robot unsticker! Hit "home" during a fight to reposition all bots back to their spawn location
[Added] Enabled rigidbody interpolation for slightly better motion blur (and something else)
[Added] Added the Slam Cam! a small camera that you can put on your robot, find it under "extra misc"
[Added] Added "totalStrucTuralIntegrity" to display the total weld integrity of a part in the editor
[Change] Tweaked some things in spinner collisions
[Change] Retuned damage output again. The "Anti clip" spinner collider seemed to limit damage output a fair bit
[Change] Added some logic to slightly reduce spinner spasticness
[Change] Changed 0.8,0.8,0.8 grey (slot 2) to 0.7,0.7,0.7 grey which matches many ingame parts
[Change] Made some "things" available  (From what it looks like, some sponsorship stickers and the ability to press F1 and F2 to enable slow-mo)
[Bugfix] Fixed some small issues in motorscript
[Bugfix] Fixed some small issues with telemetry
[Bugfix] Speeds no longer get messed up when one of the motors of a multimotor break
[Bugfix] Fixed some issues with the robot unsticker not working in a compiled build
[Bugfix] Fixed test mode not working
[Bugfix] Fixed Impulse Hazard being super weak
[Bugfix] Made Slam Cam not "Dev-only"
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where the mesh combiner would fail and create massive lag
[Removed] CDC option, it caused more problems then it fixed

How 2 use the Slam Cam
Put it on a bot
Enter an arena fight
The Slam Cam will be activated by any of the unused arena cam slots (so if you have an arena with 6 cams, you CANNOT activate the Cam)

Win:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jYuYjepupRLnpNRrbyoa_1uaGk6aTwiv/view?usp=sharing
 
Mac:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l2mJcXgx6kDka3HPCrp1Ixsdo7VnSN19/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on September 15, 2022, 06:18:11 PM
Quote
New bleeding edge: SEPTEMBER15
IMPORTANT: Linux builds are now available! It is very WIP and may not work!

Changelog:
[Added] Added native Linux support (still needs some more testing)
[Added] Arm damager slider! disables or multiplies the damage done by hammers/flippers/arms
[Added] Trampa VESC 100/250
[Added] CAT X3330
[Added] CAT X1020
[Added] Trampa 60/120 (by Liam)
[Added] CAT 30100 (by Liam)
[Added] VEX BB (by Liam)
[Added] Green Brocc 200a (by Liam)
[Change] Adjusted friction values on many materials to be more realistic
[Bugfix] Fixed telemetry applying gear ratio twice to the torque value
[Bugfix] Fixed telemetry displaying half the actual bite depth
[Bugfix] Disabled CCD on some stock shapes
[Removed] Deleted some old damage code causing groups/wheels to break off at random
[Disabled] Disabled the wheel torque limiter since it is causing some issues and inconsistancies and is not really needed anymore (might cause some robots to bounce/float again maybe?)
Link to the builds:

https://www.robot-rumble.com/bleedingedgebuilds/

It has been awhile, thanks for the patience, have fun with the new build!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on October 17, 2022, 08:11:09 PM
October 17th

Quote
Our revitalized dev team's first game update! It's been great working with the rest of the team, and I think Doyle is happy that he isn't carrying on is own anymore.

Changelog:
[Added] A Workshop button that opens the UserRobots folder in a native file explorer.
[Added] There is now a button next to the Components Attached counter that explains the basics of weld.
[Added] Added a toggle option in Display settings to hide the weld help button.
[Removed] Test Arena from Arena Select menu
[Added] Wreckbots Arena as built-in arena
[Change] The Championship button on the main menu has been changed to an Open Game Folder button that opens the appdata/ApplicationSupport folder in the user's file explorer.
[Added] Main Menu buttons now have small icons (made by @MellowedRose☕)
[Added] Arena Select now has a guide that explains how to add arenas in addition to linking the Discord server, AMT download, AMT tutorial, and the arenas folder

[Change] New spinner mechanics! More precise impacts and more realistic!
        This includes:
        New static and dynamic high speed colliders that detect collisions much more precise
        New damage and impact calculations
        New impact spinner speed reduction
        New Impact filters (No sniping possible in combination with the new HS colliders!)
        New grind mechanic
        New absolute bite calculations that takes in account the speed and direction of the opponent as well
        A basic implementation of ablative and springy bite/impulse reduction
        Improved spark emission
        Improved performance by deleting old, unused calculations

[Change] Motors now actually reach their break even continuous work point
[Change] Motors now heat up and cool down more realistic (slower then earlier)
[Change] All motors now have correct stats (Moto, Ampflow and TP100 are less powerfull, LEM's, NPC's are more powerfull)
[Change] Increased gyro for wide and big diameter spinners
[Change] Different material components now use adapted welding that simulates a bolted connection
[Bugfix] Hinged groups break off correctly without bugs now
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where spinners could not damage some components including other spinners
[Bugfix] Pause now stops all sounds
[Bugfix] Motors now display their continuous current
[Bugfix] Gas splitter now has as many inputs as it visually has (4x input)
[Added] More TP power motors! The TP2030, TP2930, TP3650, TP5680. From BW to HW!
[Added] CAT TrackTail motors! 1:10th and 1:8th scale RC motors for BW and FW!
[Added] PrimalPower X23850! A GIANT flat outrunner that can deliver a whopping amount of power!
[Added] The Green BroccSC VeggieMaster 800A ESC! A ridiculous ESC for the most stupid Brushless setups you can imagine (Temporary model)
[Added] Lynch LEM 200x2. This is litterely two LEM 200's slapped together...
[Added] A range of small brushless outrunners!
[Added] A fixed version of the 3 inch brushless! (the old one is hidden, since completely unrealistic but it wont break old bots now)
[Added] Screws! Bolts! Hex heads! Flat heads! Philips heads! All to make things pretty with.
[Removed] Removed more old damage code that fused broken parts together mid air
[Bugfix] Fixed weight of connected flipper systems
[Bugfix] Debug spinner options are no longer visible in settings mid-fight

Links:
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14_73BEdE3asXFZ-K1bKK6da3jxfIxAFA/view?usp=sharing
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F92lxqzSXVsljVMYn-bJ1LZw-hKwhWm1/view?usp=sharing
Linux: Can be built upon request

The major thing that this build reworks is spinner bite.  Verts no longer throw themselves backwards as much and reach verts actually hit things.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on October 30, 2022, 08:55:13 PM
Quote
Changelog
[Bugfix] The controls button in the settings menu now brings up the controls settings during a battle.
[Bugfix] TP5680, CAT TrackTail 1/8, and CAT TrackTail 1/10 should no longer burn at their max voltage
[Bugfix] Lowered PrimalPower X23850 max RPM to proper stats
[Bugfix] PrimalPower X23850 now weighs its proper weight
[Bugfix] Updated comp_info of PrimalPower motor
[Bugfix] VeggieMaster 800A is no longer scalable
[Bugfix] Weld Help Button should now show up by default for new users
[Bugfix] Fixed ESC current limits resetting at random
[Bugfix] Fixed spinners on arms generating way too big HS collider
[Change] Slight update to LEM texture (LEM2x200 showing mesh centre instead of what looked like 3 motors stacked)
[Change] Updated Visual of Broccsc 200a
[Added] Broccsc 100a, 70a, 40a and 30a ESC's!
[Added] The godly TP100XL
[Change] went over all motors to fix all specs and limits
[Bugfix] Fixed spinner edge detector being way too big on spinners on arms or hinged groups
[Remove] Removed combined_damage_object since it was obsolute and broke spinners off in the test area
[Removed] removed several unused script
[Bugfix] BW with spinners will no longer gyro when their spinners are not spinning
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug where the edge detector would not work and spinners would grind excessively
[Added] Goose! a small brushless motor for beetleweight drive!
[Added] A fitting small gearbox for the 18xx brushless motors
[Change] Minor updates to some motors
[Bugfix] Fixed Goose motor
[Bugfix] Fixed beetle gearbox size
[Changed] Arena add help button is now a question mark instead of a plus sign
[Added] New official RR2 default arena by @LiamHaddev! (edited)
[Bugfix] Game Folder and Open Robot Folder buttons should now work on Mac
[Added] Arena damage! All arenas now apply damage when you ram/fall/slam into them
[Added] Arena Damage is now added to AMT arenas upon instantiation
[Added] Arena Damage Slider
[Bugfix] Damage values can now be adjusted mid-fight
[Change] Fixed values from GOOSE motor
[Bugfix] Fixed some components not having damage applied to their welds
[Remove] Some old scripts that still ran but didnt do anything useful
[Changed] The botlab camera can now be zoomed in more
Hotfix:
[Bugfix] Arena damage slider no longer affects arm damage
[Changed] Set default arena damage to 25%

Links:
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bvbnInsdQNLjRZkrcWghu3GRZy-v7WFV/view?usp=sharing
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UeFFLtsMiuuPQLuFg6a2l2VZ8RqgSOLk/view?usp=share_link
Linux: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Wnmb-I-0XEQBcJe1ODIGfIbBtQX8apKD/view?usp=sharing

Some bug fixes, a new default arena, and an arena-damage slider.  Look forward to seeing what bugs are littering this build.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on December 25, 2022, 07:47:35 PM
Happy Halloween

Quote
Changelog
[Removed] Wreckbots arena due to it being built in an outdated version of AMT
[Changed] The default arenas are now copied to the Arenas folder instead of being loaded from StreamingAssets.  ⚠️ If you use the October Builds after this update, you will need to remove the arenas folder from the October build StreamingAssets ⚠️
[Added] UserRobots is now created when the game first launches. You no longer need to export a robot to have it created.
[Changed] Stock Robots are now copied to the UserRobots folder instead of being loaded for battling.
[Added] Damage and tickrate sliders now have textboxes that let you change the value without having to use the slider
[Bugfix] Damage and tickrate can now be changed mid-fight (for real this time)
[Updated] Concave Collider generator has been updated to version 1.30
[Updated] Rewired has been updated to the latest version
[Change] Rebalanced spinner bite
[Change] Improved edge detection of spinners
[Removed] Some laggy debug statements
[Bugfix] Fixed N20 rpm/volt limit
[Bugfix] 1.8A ESC colliders now matches the model
[Added] New botlab icons by @Mellowed Rose☕
[Updated] Credits now include all developers as well as outside contributors
[Added] The RR2 UK default arena designed by @LiamHaddev!
[Bugfix] Credits scrollview now shows the entire credits
[Bugix] Clicking in the Credits window no longer hides it
[Change] Changed the material slider to properly round and accept decimals more easily
[Bugfix] The New Shape button is no longer off-center
[Changed] RR2 Arena is now 0.5x larger
[Changed] The cameras in the RR2 arena have been adjusted to better positions
[Added] Dual CAT 30100 motor due to popular demand (not added by Doyle ;p)
[Bugfix] Transparent Shape and Chassis now works on Hardox and other textured materials.

Links
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TprD46fmhhfWaFBZciRAkixLZATpM816/view?usp=share_link
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HVJBT8JiCAd2gWy4XOHuiRbHgcl2m28y/view?usp=share_link
Linux: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g10kO200t5-enu6rhruBmmNVt0Cj7C2Z/view?usp=share_link
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 03, 2023, 11:38:48 PM
New update.  Time to nuke your botlabs folks.

Quote
[Added] Goose Mini battery splitter
[Added] Fillet shape (might need a positioning fix)
[Added] Perf Round quarter hollow cylinder (might need a positioning fix)
[Added] Countout timers can now be hidden with Video Settings
[Added] Epilepsy warning in opening splashes
[Added] Octo A28-150 motor
[Added] Goose S2838 motor
[Added] Goose HK3536 outrunner motor, 3000watt cont and good looking...
[Added] Goose HK7050 outrunner motor: Minotaur runs two of these for the drum, make of that what you will...
[Added] A ball bearing! make things spin!
[Added] Goose 4S 14.8v 850mAh battery (NOT PLACABLE YET)
[Added] Many new basic shapes (NOT ALL OF THEM ARE PLACABLE YET, expect update later this week)
[Added] moar Saw!
[Added] New model for the PrimalPower X238/50!
[Added] TP 4070 brushless motor, small but long... very capable!
[Added] By popular demand: Dual A28-150, as found in Skorpios and Defender!
[Added] A smoll RC receiver! only six channels but it will actually fit in your Beetle... It was a beetle right? Wait a 150gram? Bruh... It will fit tho...
[Added] More things that can be made into bot parts by other dear devs that have much better internet then me at this moment in time
[Added] PrimalPower X238/100! An even thiccker and more powerfull version of that flat pancake brushless motor
[Added] Added Super 5Ah Batteries! from 1S till 13S
[Added] Dual CAT X1020[Change] Arena damage is now calculated based on entire robot weight instead of the piece
[Change] Default Arm Damage and Arena Damage are set to 0%
[Change] Increased/reworked the metallic effects on metal materials
[Change] Changes some material textures to make them more realistic
[Change] slightly altered the looks of chains
[Change] Tweaked metallic effects on some motors
[Change] Rebalanced the peak power of TP100, CAT 30010, Motenergy
[Change] Rebalanced spinner bite
[Change] Changes to make wide and medium to big sized beaters and drums bite better
[Change] Shortened axle on beetje brushless gearbox
[Change] Nerfed the Motenergy to 500a continous, but it burns out too fast on solenoid so needs more fix
[Change] Small code tweaks to improve performance
[Change] Optimised AI scripts for better performance when using player only bots
[Change] Optimised velocity limiter to improve performance
[Change] Excluded some code in ComponentWelder that might not be required but massivly reduced performance
[Change] Reworked Spinner bite to be more satisfying and responsive
[Change] Made the outwards impulse on spinners much more sophisticated: HS glance and ping off angled surfaces and verts shoot things backwards instead of always up
[Change] Spinner to spinner collisions now sway more towards the spinner with the higher tip speed, still WIP till it feels right
[Change] Removed some unused calculations fro spinners to slightly increase performance
[Change] Improved edge detection on spinners
[Change] Reworked damage output on spinners to give more damage on a good hit
[Change] Both stock arenas now have roofs
[Change] RR2 UK has Bigger floor zone
[Change] RR2 UK now has one OOTA at the far end of arena and one by the entry gate
[Change] RR2 UK Pit and flipper much smaller
[Change] RR2 UK now has better lighting and camera angles
[Change] RR2 UK flipper and pit are now swapped so the pit is near the OOTA
[Change] RR2 UK flipper activates 2 seconds if you stay on it
***Note: If the arenas don't update, go to your arena folder (not the one in the game files) and delete the rr2 and rr2uk arenas so the game can put the new ones in.***
[Bugfix] Open Game Folder and Open User Robots Folder should now work on Mac
[Bugfix] The WeldHelp setting now toggles in all settings menus
[Bugfix] Parts from spinners and arms now have the correct friction again
[Bugfix] Broken parts from actuated groups nopw have the correct friction again
[Bugfix] Thin custom shapes now get a correct material thickness equal to the one in the UI
[Bugfix] Motors now correctly mute when the game is paused
[Bugfix] Spinners will always make a collision sound instead of sometimes
[Bugfix] CAT 30100 is now rated for 285a continouos to bring it to its realistic cont power of 17kw
[Bugfix] Fixed some bugs with spinners suddenly triggering a huge recoil on very light objects
[Bugfix] Fixed the edge detector sometimes getting stuck in the opponent
[Bugfix] Fixed rpm limit on 3-inch brushless
[Bugfix] Fixed weight from Goose insect weight splitter
[Bugfix] Fixed stats and weight on Goose S2838 motor
[Bugfix] Fixed sizes on some Pro Batteries (10S till 13S are now slightly smaller)
[Bugfix] Fixed a small error in the LEM 130 stats
[Bugfix] Fixed the resistance of the TP100, it needs some tweaking to have its correct peak current
[Bugfix] Fixed a bug that created allot of lag on bots with many basic shapes
[Bugfix] Spinners now properly trigger a collision sound (perhaps a bit spammy sometimes)

Links:
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vGcIpjyk1ML51DRreI0FcovzhKr8qdVw/view?usp=sharing
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZathN5c49Txl4I7B3EV5z8KV8pRJK5Tb/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on July 12, 2023, 01:49:34 PM
Small hotfix.  Mostly to stop lag.

Quote
[Bugfix] Dual CAT x1020 no longer floats when placed
[Bugfix] parts attached to the Dual CAT 30100 are no longer .002 off center
[Bugfix] TP4070 is no longer scalable and should have correct weight
[Changed] Googly Eye no longer moves
[Bugfix] Dual A28-150 is now classified as a multi-motor and has 2 esc inputs
[Revert] Reverted arena damage to not calculate the mass of the entire bot for every contact point, needs more thought or an integral sulution
[Optimisation] tiny optimisation to combinemeshes to not set layers every frame for every component
[Bugfix] Fixed spinners biting super hard on loose parts

Links;
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OM2eNUjKtPOjm9YXDbGKhAvrd85tnSyD/view?usp=sharing
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/11RIZQ6gqrZJ-jKGIkMP-zqTDrnTqfmHu/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on January 03, 2024, 03:31:42 PM
Only been half a year.

Quote
[Added] Goose MAD TORQ brushless motor, as a slightly smaller outrunner compared to the PP
[Added] Added the spinner impulse slider back. Yall wanted to engage in more dumb hits.
[Added] Options to adjust Rotation, Movement Tracking, and Zoom for Cameras.
[Added] Option to disable Immobility Countouts.
[Added] Option to hide Timer in matches.
[Added] Ability to change countdown and timeout text and sounds.
[Added] New animation trigger that is triggered when the countdown starts. (Intro sequences, anyone?)
[Added] New utility script that allows a GameObject to track a players bot position. If the player slot is empty, the GameObject will disable.
[Added] New utility script that allows a GameObject to rotate to face a players bot. If the player slot is empty, the GameObject will disable.
[Added] New utility scripts that allows a GameObject to track and/or face the midpoint between all bots.
[Added] New sound triggers for Timer, Zone, and Countdown. Now you can have custom sounds play whenever, wherever! (Pit button release klaxon. mayhaps)
[Added] Centre of Mass indicator in BotLab, accesible from the sliding options menu.
[Added] Added functionality to increase the directnesOfHit with high bite distance and increase the impact angle, this makes run-up hits much more satisfying
[Added] Telemetry now highlights red when: a motor current more then the continous current is drawn, when a motors max rpm is exceeded and when it overheats!
[Added] Added a blow out effect on gas tanks when they are hit
[Added] Small boi flamethrower for beetles
[Added] Tungsten Carbide material! Tungsten carbides in a Cobalt matrix to be very exact: super heavy, super hard, super brittle!
[Added] Magnesium Alloy! Not entirly the stuff that wants to explode in water: its like lightweight Aluminium, but a little less strong.
[Added] S7 Steel! The famed, the infamous, the wanted, the controversial: Hardened till 54 Rockwell C, as holied by Ray Billings: harder then AR/Hardox, but more brittle.
[Added] TPU! the new surge in lower weightclasses: 3D printed TPU 95A, very flexible and wear resistant, minorly grippy.
[Added] Carbonfiber Nylon/NylonX! Some call it black aluminium...! Perhaps in toughness, but the strongest plastic available!
[Added] Polyurethane Rubber! For those who like casting their own tires! Extremely grippy, but slightly less reliable as classic rubber!
[Added] PLA! The absolute giant of 3D printing, a surprisingly high tensile strength... but we know what happens when it is hit...
[Added] Different looks for each material, if peoples have opinions about these please let me know!
[Added] BroccSC 200A HV! this boi going up to 50v
[Added] Nine new PrimalPower outrunners! Ranging from 370W to 3770W they provide allot of spin for Beetles, Feathers and anything in between!

[Change] Twitter icon to X (blegh)
[Change] Enabled incremental garbage collection, which spreads garbage collection accross several frames, reducing frame spikes
[Change] Nerfed the 300A brushless ESC to 500A peak, its 1000A limit made the Veggmaster obsolute
[Change] Moved Countouts Visible option to Battle Select Screen instead of Settings.
[Change] Match Time, Timer Visibility, Countouts Active, and Countout Visibility now save their state between sessions.
[Change] Complete rewrite of Camera Controller.
[Change] Trigger Zones can now have a delay before they become triggerable.
[Change] Made the Press Start to Begin "button" fit in with the rest of the battle UI.
[Change] Tweaked some logic to improve bite for overhang/exposed weapons
[Change] Sligthly increased the bite of the losing weapon in a spinner to spinner collisions to improve horizontal vs vertical hits
[Change] Blueprint material is now a physicial material that welds and has collisions. its as strong as cardboard and as heavy as aluminium
[Change] Reworked ALL motor smoke particle systems to be less obnoxious, glitchy and more subtle and make them derive from one source
[Change] Reworked ALL ESC and CO particle systems to be less obnoxious, glitchy and more subtle and make them derive from one source
[Change] Reworked ALL Battery particle systems to be less obnoxious, glitchy and more subtle and make them derive from one source
[Change] Changed all component particle systems to the new versions (this was so much more work then expected lmao)
[Change] Reworked the spark effects from spinners to let sparks fly faster and further, makes spinners look more impressive on glancing hits
[Change] Renamed several materials to be more technically specific or more generic (Hardox is now AR500, Titanium is now Titanium Gr. 5, Steel is Mild Steel etc.)
[Change] Reordered the material list: low tier/weaker/lightweight materials working up to exotic/heavy/strong materials and ending with the "specials"
[Change] Minor changes to some material stats: in the back im adding more functionality for said stats, these will come slowly in play!
[Change] Once again a new take on the spinner system using unity's animation curves to tune bite which comes with benefits: very precise control of bite response and much faster to calculate then intricate calculations
[Change] Rebalanced bite with the new curve control: more grinding and less spasm at very low engagement speeds, much better bite for mid range bite and reach weapons, less likely haymakers
[Change] Spark effect speeds are now tied to weapon tip speed
[Change] Fixed stats on many BroccSC's since I had some wrong weights (several became a little lighter!)
[Change] Increased flat spinner impulse efficiency to reduce the amount of "slacking" hits, this should improve the bite balance between bars and discs as well
[Change] Reduced the maximum impulse cap to reduce the impulse of gigantic spinner impacts to 6 times the robot mass (was 7.5)
[Change] Tweaked some impulse modifiers to make better spinners impacts with the arena and glancing impacts

[Bugfix] Dual CAT x1020 collider is now correct
[Bugfix] The build text works again!
[Bugfix] Broken Parts now properly despawn in BotLab on Bot Reset or when leaving a Test Area.
[Bugfix] Weird jump when switching cameras.
[Bugfix] Black cylinders missing from left and right gears in Main Menu.
[Bugfix] Animation Trigger Zones and Timers not working in game.
[Bugfix] Arena Previews not loading in Arena Select screen.
[Bugfix] Fixed some impact reduction values being applied twice causing an excessive reduction of spinner impulse compared to the damage output
[Bugfix] Fixed another bug in spinner vs arena hits, now they are pretty good
[Bugfix] Fixed material names in spinner scripts so that correct spark effects are triggered

Downloads:
Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bN687LIAppFK7KHjCDtUtrFudZixAVc8/view?usp=sharing
Linux: https://drive.google.com/file/d/18JSWxxjxZkcG1faKuVoB0Hak0FvDRP7_/view?usp=sharing
Mac: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19hO59i5aOa7sknbbymzZMbEQvVmdzbrs/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Gulden on March 24, 2024, 01:21:29 PM
I have yet to play this yet, so it might not work.
Quote
[Added] Botlab Panning can now also be done with right mouse button
[Added] PrimalPower E105-10 and E105-20: more outrunners in the 5000-9000w range!
[Added] "P1 Telemetry" Toggle to bot select screen (formerly Test Match mode)
[Added] 3x new PrimalPower NM motors based on the Neumotor 8000 Series and 1x 12000 series motor!
[Added] By popular demand: 3 dumb, disgustingly powerful brushless motors in the PrimalPower X series... 80KW, 100KW and 200KW peaks...
[Added] 90 degree fillet
[Added] 45 degree fillet
[Added] Filleted box
[Added] Box with hexagon hole
[Added] Filleted hollow hexagon
[Added] Filleted hexagon hole box
[Added] Hollow corner 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4
[Added] Hollow corner 1/10, 2/10, 3/10, 4/10 and 6/10
[Added] Hollow box witt internal fillet
[Added] Round hollow box
[Added] Tetrahedon
[Added] Box with filleted triangle hole
[Added] Seperate catagories for brushed and brushless motors! should make finding things at least a little easier for now
[Added] Seperate catagories for brushed and brushless ESC's
[Buff] Upped Motenergy to 500a Cont, which is more then its irl rating but should hopefully make it last for an entire fight with a solenoid
[Changed] New Manipulation Gizmos in BotLab (What's that? You wanted to be able to see the object you're manipulating?)
[Bugfix] Fixed NPC T64 designed voltage to be 24v
[Bugfix] CoM indicator not indicating CoM
[Bugfix] Fixed camera smoothing not working properly in match
[Bugfix] Fixed camera zoom not working properly when switching cameras in match
[Bugfix] Fixed some issues on small scale PrimalPower outrunner models
[Bugfix] Set PP X240150 Dual to be brushless
[Bugfix] Commented "UnityEditor.Experimental.GraphView" in CameraController to allow compilation to work

Windows: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dh149uxTEBvNL3rN3O00E_M69I6sjVYF/view?usp=sharing

Mac: Suffer

Linux: Suffer