Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187534 times)

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2100 on: March 09, 2020, 09:02:30 AM »
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2101 on: March 09, 2020, 09:06:48 AM »
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2102 on: March 09, 2020, 09:20:59 AM »
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff

Here's the plan:

1. We are going to create a new, larger mesh for the existing brushless motor.  The size of the mesh will be dictated by the physics necessary to get as close as possible to the torque and speed numbers we had in the February 16th version of the game.  The old mesh had a can size of 3" diameter by 1.2" long.  The new mesh will be substantially larger than 3"x1.2", but smaller than the biggest brushed motors in the game.

2. We will rename the motor to represent its new physical dimensions.  It won't be called the 3" brushless motor, but maybe the "Heavyweight Brushless Motor", or perhaps something more specific.  Ideally we will be able to use a model from a real-life motor manufacturer that fits the specs we had before.

The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.

PS - The next build should fix the phasing issue.

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2103 on: March 09, 2020, 09:25:20 AM »
Tbh id first fix the fundimental issues that we are having rn before you add more stuff into the game, id say as of now, keep the feb 16 brushless, and fix the weapon phasing issue, and we would have a solid build that would be great base for tournaments and other stuff
I gotta agree with this. At least for now. I’m just wanting to get started on filming for SvL, and I’m not sure if I can get the free cam for the arena to be compatible with Feb 16.
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Offline min440303

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2104 on: March 09, 2020, 09:30:55 AM »
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 09:57:18 AM by min440303 »
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Offline RoboticCombatUk

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2105 on: March 09, 2020, 10:28:02 AM »
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2106 on: March 09, 2020, 11:29:42 AM »
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?

I'm not sure what you are asking.

1. We do not have permission to include any robots from Battlebots (TM) in the game.  If you want to make or download a replica of one, that is up to you.

2. The default AI code is going to be rewritten from scratch at some point in the future.  The code that currently comes with the game will be useless after the rewrite.  You won't need to download anything except for the game itself.  The code for each robot is stored in that robot's .RR2Bot file, so if you share a robot you are also sharing its AI code.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2107 on: March 09, 2020, 11:44:48 AM »
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.

min440303,

I'm going to use Lotus's spinner in conjunction with a TP Power TP100 brushless motor (the same motors used in a lot of heavyweights) to calibrate the new MOI and KE computations.

There is a great online calculator that shows the basic computation at http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html.  Here's what I'm shooting for:

Screen Shot 2020-03-09 at 11.39.45 AM.png

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2108 on: March 09, 2020, 11:57:15 AM »
The goal of all of this is that you guys won't have to do a motor swap from your February 16th build, but the motor itself will be larger.
This can be a solution. Btw when will the bot scaling tool be out? Cuz we may need to upscale our bots to fit the bigger mesh of brushless.

min440303,

I'm going to use Lotus's spinner in conjunction with a TP Power TP100 brushless motor (the same motors used in a lot of heavyweights) to calibrate the new MOI and KE computations.

There is a great online calculator that shows the basic computation at http://runamok.tech/RunAmok/spincalc.html.  Here's what I'm shooting for:

 [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]
Ok that seems like a good thing, it is a nice middleground between a brushed A40 and an ETEK. I just hope it doesnt have a negative impact

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2109 on: March 09, 2020, 12:05:45 PM »
Also, please note that all of the numbers in the game are currently for 24 Volts.  We are planning to support all the way up to 48 Volts.  All of the motors will be a lot more peppy once we increase the voltage.

You will have control over voltage by controlling the LiPo "S" rating of the batteries.  We haven't figured out the UI for this in the Robot Workshop yet.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2110 on: March 09, 2020, 12:13:11 PM »
We are replacing the 3" Brushless Motor with the TP100.  The TP100 is about 4" diameter x 4" length.

Once it is geared down it should have higher top-end power than an AmpFlow A40-300 or an NPC T64, in about half the size and weight.  It won't be usable for drive unless you gear it down first.

Offline min440303

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2111 on: March 09, 2020, 12:23:17 PM »
We are replacing the 3" Brushless Motor with the TP100.  The TP100 is about 4" diameter x 4" length.

Once it is geared down it should have higher top-end power than an AmpFlow A40-300 or an NPC T64, in about half the size and weight.  It won't be usable for drive unless you gear it down first.
Okay that's cool enough.
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Offline Hobo Droo

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2112 on: March 09, 2020, 03:25:40 PM »
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?

My intent is to have AI programming be part of the in-game experience.  You can go with the default AI, or modify the code using the in-game editor.

Please note that once we get the physics, damage, and weapon systems worked out over the next few months, I intend to go back and rewrite AI with all of the new inputs.

I expect that lots of people will be posting AI code here on GTM that people will be able to copy-paste into the game for their robots.
But, does that mean that all these bots from 'Battlebots' I can find and if so, what codes do they need?

Like Chris said, there are no robots from Battlebots in the game. Kix and a few others are working on a replica pack here that should be released relatively soon: https://gametechmods.com/forums/robot-rumble-2-0/robot-rumble-community-replica-pack-(wip)/msg769813/#msg769813
The default AI should work for most of them, but for the flippers and hammers KupaTec has made a customizable hammer AI here: https://pastebin.com/BrSbFbEn
And I have made a customizable flipper AI here: https://pastebin.com/J3SP1T5h
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 07:19:58 PM by Hobo Droo »
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2113 on: March 09, 2020, 09:03:24 PM »
The March 9th build is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

[Updates in the March 9th Build]​

[Added] Replaced 3" Brushless Motor prefab with the TP Power TP100. This is a real-life brushless motor used by many heavyweights.  At 4" diameter x 4" length, the TP100 is physically larger than the previous 3" Brushless Motor.  It also uses the realistic torque and speed numbers of the actual motor.  The previous torque and speed values for the 3" Brushless Motor were both impossibly high.  The new motor will require gear reduction to be used as a drive motor.

[Added] New Drive Motors: Beetle Gear Motor: Perfect for Beetleweights. Inspired by the gear motor a large number of UK Beetleweights use. Drill Gearbox Motor: Fantastic for Featherweights & Lightweights. Inspired by the gearbox motors taken from cheap handheld Drills a lot of UK featherweights use. Scooter DC Motor: Great for Middleweights. Just something mid powered for all robots who require it! 4S Lipo Battery: The first of many new batteries to come. Ideal for Beetleweights.​

[Added] Spinner teeth to go with the flywheel bases and shell spinner bases.

​[Added] Added a tint color for tintable components.

[Added] New Components: Extra Decorations, Weapons added + amended

[Added] Added Spinner_Wobble_Controller to spinners. As a spinner takes damage, its center of mass becomes more and more offset. This causes the robot to wobble more and more, and makes driving more difficult.​

[Changed] Added Combined_Damageable_Object.cs. This script will track combined damage to a weapon so everything breaks off together.​

[Changed] Amended the Beetle Gear Motors with various gear ratios. Also amended the power of the SG Servo to be in line with a 10kg Servo. Offers better flipping power to Beetle's.

​[Changed] Changed the NPC T-64 to make the axle sit on '0' as well as the facing on a side panel automatically face at a more convenient rotation.

[Changed] Moved body and axle of F30-400 motor so that it was aligned with the axis.

[Changed] Added code in the SpinnerCollisionHandler onCollisionStay to stop the spinner entirely if the spinner is penetrating an immovable object by more than 10% of its radius. This is necessary to prevent the spinner from floating inside the floor while still spinning. 

[Changed] Tweaked DamageableObject.cs so that parts take 3 hits to break off. Also, the minimum damage threshold for a part has been eliminated so that all damage, no matter how small, will accumulate.​​

[Changed] New mesh for the flywheel bases [Amended] Updated weights for vast majority of components to be more realistic + competitive."​

 [Bug Fix] Updated Shape_Info of Drum_Spinner components with Robot_Resources_Control_Object.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed a bug with the robot_resources_control script, that sometimes showed the wrong component when it had a problem, making fixing the right component difficult.

[Bug Fix] Fixed a problem with the default tint, where the cloned components got their tint reset to the default one. Fixed the weight of scalable/materiable components where changes in scale/material didn't count to the weight calculation.​

​[Reverted] Reverted Robot_Reconstruction.massScaleFactor back to 0.1. The increased mass of a massScaleFactor of 1.0 caused the following bugs: 1. The increased chassis weight caused the chassis to scrape on the ground. This problem can be seen in Nuclear Crisis. 2. The increased mass caused impacts to be excessive. This can be compensated in spinner impulse response. 3. The interaction between the increased mass of the chassis and the reduced mass of vertical spinners caused vertical spinners to flip backward too easily (Circumvolution and S3).

[Bug Fix] Reduced force and torque values of motors and linear actuators by massScaleFactor.

[Bug Fix] Adjusted Combined_Damageable_Object so that when a spinner breaks off it only sets the first part's damage to 0. This means the part breaks off together rather than shattering into all of its component pieces.

[Bug Fix] Fixed the problems with the axle of motors: -Fixed axles being offset from their normal positions, the axle position was for some reason not calculated correctly on motors that didn't have (1,1,1) local scale. I now set it as (1,1,1) before getting the axle initial position and then reset it after. -Fixed the axles of the new A40-300 moving to the center of the robot, in the hingejoint the "auto configure connected anchor" option was unchecked and that meant it didn't reset after the axle got it's parent changed. -Fixed the ampflow grarbox not keeping the components aligned with the axle when moving the component.​

[Bug Fix] Amended components. A40-300 is now scaled properly but shouldn't affect previous builds as the motor was just scaled.​

[Bug Fix] Fixed the MOI and KE displayed in Telemetry_Display_Controller. The numbers are now accurate. I also verified spinup time for weapons, and this appears to be accurate as well.​

Offline Hobo Droo

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2114 on: March 10, 2020, 12:02:09 AM »
There are a couple of issues with the latest update.
-Physics are still broken. When a spinner hits something with a significant amount of force, it will teleport around. This happens during matches as well.


-Brushless motors are laggy while being placed. Most of the game runs perfectly smooth, but when a brushless motor is first being placed, it becomes very laggy. After the motor has been placed the game handles fine.


-Flippers are broken and cannot fire. All pneumatic pistons are unable to be controlled, making all flippers completely unusable.

-Old F30-400 motors have been moved downward (this was addressed in the last update and can be fixed easily, so it isn't much of a problem)

-Motors have very poor torque. An E-Tek powered horizontal barely pushes the opponent at all, E-Tek vertical spinners that could once self-right from their own power can't any more, and all lifters, grabbers, and crushers that used motors with rotation limits have been rendered completely useless. There is no gearing that can fix some of the lifters I've made, or allow any of my spinners to have significant power.

-A small diameter spinner that weighs more than a large diameter spinner is better. As you can see in the videos, a smaller spinner that weighs more will spin up much faster and lose less power per hit than a larger diameter spinner with less mass. The large bar spinner takes much longer to spin up and loses all momentum when it hits the box and throws itself, but the heavier, smaller spinner can consistently throw a box into the ceiling and retain its speed.



These problems aside, this game is shaping up to be amazing and I can't wait to see what comes next.
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Offline min440303

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2115 on: March 10, 2020, 12:25:32 AM »
Apart from those issues above, I'll talk about something that I think is really important and some own issues.
All motors spins up really slow, especially at the beginning, both brushed and brushless act like that, examples like Rainbow Circus with etek, or Aftershock with brushless I've posted before, the energy stacks in 10 joules from start, we can even see how slow a spinner is rotating.
And as a result, spinners barely have pushing power(except the crate in test cage) and all the vertical spinners lose their ability to self-right automatically, for motors having far less torque.

Here's a strange personal issue. My flipper Equator uses F30 for drive, but it has become extremely slow in this build. Other bots with A40 or F30 drive well as before(the position of old F30 still not right tho), only this one is having some problem.
Mar 04

Mar 09

Circus

Aftershock

  
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 03:39:22 AM by min440303 »
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2116 on: March 10, 2020, 01:46:22 AM »
Ive tested the game pre work (and im typing this on a bus actually)

I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.


Follow up of some sorts, to say what is good and what is bad.
Well the spinup time is slower which is technically more realistic on small diameter spinners, but the larger it is, the slower it gets, or in hobo's case that is just the motor.


The brushless has no torque whatsoever on 10:0.1 gearing and opposite, its not usable for drive at all.



Flippers dont flip, it seems like the axle doesnt move at all.


When a vertical spinner hits the floor it loses all of its torque, thus making it impossible to selfright

« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 02:39:36 AM by kix »

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2117 on: March 10, 2020, 05:59:09 AM »
Apart from those issues above, I'll talk about something that I think is really important and some own issues.
All motors spins up really slow, especially at the beginning, both brushed and brushless act like that, examples like Rainbow Circus with etek, or Aftershock with brushless I've posted before, the energy stacks in 10 joules from start, we can even see how slow a spinner is rotating.
And as a result, spinners barely have pushing power(except the crate in test cage) and all the vertical spinners lose their ability to self-right automatically, for motors having far less torque.

Here's a strange personal issue. My flipper Equator uses F30 for drive, but it has become extremely slow in this build. Other bots with A40 or F30 drive well as before(the position of old F30 still not right tho), only this one is having some problem.
Mar 04

Mar 09

Circus

Aftershock

  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]    [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

I just checked the numbers with Rainbow Circus, and its weapon's angular acceleration is about right with an MOI of 2.38 kg-m^2.  According to my footage it is taking approximately 5 seconds to get to 1500 RPM.  With an average torque in this interval of approximately 40 Nm, it should take about 10 seconds to get to this speed.

 
Screen Shot 2020-03-10 at 5.41.53 AM.png


For some reason Aftershock is taking 8 seconds to get to 3000 RPM, rather than 5 seconds.  It also isn't getting close to its max RPM of 4800, only topping out at 3542 RPM.  I'm not sure if this is realistic or if air drag is just too high.  According to https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Aftershock, the real-life version was tuned to operate at 2400 RPM, reaching this speed in under two seconds.  Maybe try a gear ratio of 5.4:1?  This should get you to 2000 RPM in around 2 seconds.  This should also double the spinner's torque and hopefully help with self-righting.

 
Screen Shot 2020-03-10 at 5.56.23 AM.png


I'm not sure what is going on with the F30-400.  That is really weird.

Offline Arcane

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2118 on: March 10, 2020, 06:07:51 AM »
I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.

I wouldn’t feel too disheartened Kix, it’s not like this is the final version of the game and there won’t be any more updates.

If I can throw a cheesy metaphor out there, it’s like we’re making armour plating for a chassis that’s not fully built and then getting frustrated that what was a wedge shape has turned into a cut off wedge shape. Maybe we just need to hold off on rep packs and tournaments until we know what we’re working with and in the meantime just have fun with the game.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2119 on: March 10, 2020, 06:08:38 AM »
Ive tested the game pre work (and im typing this on a bus actually)

I feel like you have not listened to me at all and instead of fixing the current issues, you have just added stuff to game.


Follow up of some sorts, to say what is good and what is bad.
Well the spinup time is slower which is technically more realistic on small diameter spinners, but the larger it is, the slower it gets, or in hobo's case that is just the motor.


The brushless has no torque whatsoever on 10:0.1 gearing and opposite, its not usable for drive at all.



Flippers dont flip, it seems like the axle doesnt move at all.


When a vertical spinner hits the floor it loses all of its torque, thus making it impossible to selfright

Sorry for the frustration!

The torque numbers going into the system are real-life values now for all of the motors at 24 volts.  The AmpFlows and ME0708's numbers and performance should not have changed.  I acknowledge the fact that the F30-400 got messed up somehow.  I will look into it.

I will definitely take a look to see what is going on with brushless drive.  I'm assuming I need to test with a 110 kg robot at 10:1 ratio.  Which wheel size should I use?

I added code to increase the chance of bite occurring.  It looks like this has had the side effect of stopping spinners.

I'm not sure what has happened to flippers, though I'm kind of missing one to test with.  Would you mind sending me one that isn't working?

Vertical spinners not self-righting is a big problem.  I need to come up with a better balance of "bite ability" vs stopping the spinner.