Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187723 times)

Offline BATTLEMASTER

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 24
  • Rep: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2080 on: March 07, 2020, 08:41:32 PM »
Something seems very off about the bleeding edge build.  My bar spinner used to top out at 150 kJ or so, but now it's going up to 1.7 million kJ.  Stuff is way too powerful and is causing weapon collisions to glitch the game.  There have been three cases now where somehow player 2 won by KO, which I'm not sure how that's possible.

Offline Hobo Droo

  • Official Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Rep: 7
  • Former Cheater
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2081 on: March 07, 2020, 08:51:17 PM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 
kevin the cube is gone in fortnite

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2082 on: March 08, 2020, 08:23:47 PM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 08:53:12 PM by cjbruce »

Offline min440303

  • Lightweight
  • Posts: 192
  • Rep: 2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2083 on: March 09, 2020, 02:34:13 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
mmm but the real Poison Arrow just uses brushless for its drum and spins up to 9000rpm within 10 seconds. Isn't having more small but powerful spinner bots the initial purpose of creating brushless? Its stats in Feb 16th are to the right point. It's better than ampflows, and weaker than eteks.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 06:45:39 AM by min440303 »
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2084 on: March 09, 2020, 04:33:02 AM »
So a 20kg disc will take 150 seconds to reach his max speed? This sill severely cripple the brushless motors and make them unusable without serious gearing down, in which case it will have terrible rpm, and then it would be useless next to ampflow motors. This is a game remember. Id suggest using feb 16th's brushless stats but lower the torque by a quarter or a third

Offline Team Lightning

  • Addicted to combat robotics, good at annoying people, and wanting to get to -10000 rep XD.
  • Beetleweight
  • Posts: 168
  • Rep: -4
  • Education is important, robots are importanter.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2085 on: March 09, 2020, 06:23:45 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!

Offline min440303

  • Lightweight
  • Posts: 192
  • Rep: 2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2086 on: March 09, 2020, 06:26:28 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at

Offline Team Lightning

  • Addicted to combat robotics, good at annoying people, and wanting to get to -10000 rep XD.
  • Beetleweight
  • Posts: 168
  • Rep: -4
  • Education is important, robots are importanter.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2087 on: March 09, 2020, 06:27:28 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2088 on: March 09, 2020, 06:32:29 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...
You did not read did you, those brushless will be 10 times weaker than they were in feb 16 version.

Offline Team Lightning

  • Addicted to combat robotics, good at annoying people, and wanting to get to -10000 rep XD.
  • Beetleweight
  • Posts: 168
  • Rep: -4
  • Education is important, robots are importanter.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2089 on: March 09, 2020, 06:33:57 AM »
Here's the file of the million joule lightweight:
 

Thanks for this!

With the proper numbers for the 3" brushless motor the robot becomes a lot less usable.  2/3 of its weight is in the weapon, and the weapon spins up really slowly, taking about 10 seconds to get to 3000 RPM.  It maxes out at 300,000 Joules, but in combat it is typically hitting with about 100,000 Joules because of the long spin-up time.

I need to do some hand-calculations to estimate the moment of inertia, but I suspect it is a little off.

EDIT - I did the calculations.  The MOI is off by a factor of 10x or so.  Spinup time is much too short in the game. Correcting the MOI will drop the energy way down.  This 0.5 meter diameter x 13 mm thick steel spinner should have an MOI of approximately 0.7 kg * m^2 and a peak KE of approximately 60,000 Joules.  It should only be at a few hundred joules and a few hundred RPM after 3 seconds, taking about 150 seconds to get to top speed.  It should be completely useless as a weapon in robot combat.
Yay! More realistic! I can’t wait to build something with a brushless!
You'll build nothing with this brushless.
I’ll see...
You did not read did you, those brushless will be 10 times weaker than they were in feb 16 version.
I haven’t used them yet.
EDIT: The 16feb brushless motors.
EDIT 2: why are we getting off topic?

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2090 on: March 09, 2020, 06:42:22 AM »
I haven’t used them yet.
A quick sum up:
Feb 16, we got brushless, they were great, however the torque could be lowered
Feb 28th brushless got a weird buff that made them more than op
Next update would nerf the brushless to the ground to the point where normal brushed motors would work better as a motor for spinning weapons

Offline Team Lightning

  • Addicted to combat robotics, good at annoying people, and wanting to get to -10000 rep XD.
  • Beetleweight
  • Posts: 168
  • Rep: -4
  • Education is important, robots are importanter.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2091 on: March 09, 2020, 06:44:36 AM »
I haven’t used them yet.
A quick sum up:
Feb 16, we got brushless, they were great, however the torque could be lowered
Feb 28th brushless got a weird buff that made them more than op
Next update would nerf the brushless to the ground to the point where normal brushed motors would work better as a motor for spinning weapons
Ahh... I see. Brushless motors will be crappy.

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2092 on: March 09, 2020, 06:48:07 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.

Offline Team Lightning

  • Addicted to combat robotics, good at annoying people, and wanting to get to -10000 rep XD.
  • Beetleweight
  • Posts: 168
  • Rep: -4
  • Education is important, robots are importanter.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2093 on: March 09, 2020, 06:55:48 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2094 on: March 09, 2020, 06:57:38 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
However it will be total trash for HW bots which is not really great as most people make HW bots

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2095 on: March 09, 2020, 07:26:35 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2096 on: March 09, 2020, 07:29:43 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.
And there goes the compactness of a brushless

Offline WhamettNuht

  • *
  • Posts: 1302
  • Rep: 12
  • Robot Building Drag Queen
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Discord: WhamettNuht #1457
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2097 on: March 09, 2020, 08:15:49 AM »
Guys, I'm in talks with a manufacturer whose brushless motors have been used in some notable HW spinners on Battlebots. They are happy for us to use their product once they've seen some initial renders from me.

Please watch this space :)
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2098 on: March 09, 2020, 08:59:59 AM »
The 3” brushless will be in the same ballpark as an AmpFlow A28-150.  Not useless by any stretch, and completely appropriate for drive once they are geared down.  It would be an absolutely killer motor for a featherweight.  It has the highest power to weight ratio of any motor in the game.
We need a six inch brushless.

I agree that we need some bigger brushless motors for heavyweight weapons. Let me talk to Wham to see what we can come up with.
And there goes the compactness of a brushless

Brushless are still more compact.  The brush assemblies add quite a bit of length to the brushed motors.

I just want to avoid something silly like adding uber-motors with physically impossible power densities.  Here's a good discussion of the brushless use in heavyweight robot combat.  If you read down a little bit, the author talks about how and why you can get higher power densities.  Whether you used brushed or brushless you are going to have to add gearing (and the associated extra space) for drive motors:

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/powering-a-battlebot

Offline RoboticCombatUk

  • Antweight
  • Posts: 69
  • Rep: -3
  • Shut up, bitch
    • Who cares?
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Skype: Fuck that
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #2099 on: March 09, 2020, 09:00:28 AM »
Would there be an AI pack released for these Battlebots (in RR2)?