Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187562 times)

Offline min440303

  • Lightweight
  • Posts: 192
  • Rep: 2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1960 on: February 29, 2020, 03:28:42 AM »
The new arenas are awesome! Also the sliders inside the workshop makes it much more convenient to build high-customed-part-bots, really appreciate this one. And there're some issues imo of this new build.

The bots are not back to original size, but slightly smaller than those in previous builds. Maybe it's for other purpose but Idk.

Those new weapons look nice, but the weight might not be that suitable. 10kg for a flywheel, 0.5kg for an axe is a bit too fragile and lacking of energy. Resizing is still not enough. If we could tweak the material thickness of them that would be better.

The damage is unrealistically high in the new build, bots seems to be fragile as plastic, which makes me have to tweak the damage slider to 5%, but even so the small weapon parts like spinner teeth still easily fall off.

Also the bouncing problem of new custom wheels is getting more severe. And bots keep give out noises while driving.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 05:19:11 AM by min440303 »
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1961 on: February 29, 2020, 07:03:16 AM »
The new arenas are awesome! Also the sliders inside the workshop makes it much more convenient to build high-customed-part-bots, really appreciate this one. And there're some issues imo of this new build.

The bots are not back to original size, but slightly smaller than those in previous builds. Maybe it's for other purpose but Idk.

Those new weapons look nice, but the weight might not be that suitable. 10kg for a flywheel, 0.5kg for an axe is a bit too fragile and lacking of energy. Resizing is still not enough. If we could tweak the material thickness of them that would be better.

The damage is unrealistically high in the new build, bots seems to be fragile as plastic, which makes me have to tweak the damage slider to 5%, but even so the small weapon parts like spinner teeth still easily fall off.

Also the bouncing problem of new custom wheels is getting more severe. And bots keep give out noises while driving.

Glad you like the sliders!  Those are Whammet and tashic’s work.

The bots are actually back to their original, realistic sizes.  They haven’t been correctly sized for about 12 months now.  I introduced an upscaling factor a looong time ago to attempt to solve beetleweight driving problems. It turns out the root cause of the problem had nothing to do with scale (but it was exacerbated in tiny robots). The root cause has been fixed, so the size scaling factor has been removed.  What you see now is to the correct scale.

I’ll let Whammet tackle the new components.

Noted about damage.  I’m at our school competition now.  There are about 30 spinners here.  Things definitely aren’t breaking as readily as my damage model would suggest.  Granted, these robots are only 85 pounds and not as powerful, but still.

I didn’t realize there was a bouncing problem with the wheels.  Would you mind sending an .RR2Bot file?

Thank you for all of the great feedback!  I feel like we are so close on this!

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1962 on: February 29, 2020, 07:08:59 AM »
I noticed with the latest build that the blade-to-gear axle connection on my custom bar spinner is very weak.  Then again, it is also capable of spinning up to 200 kJ in less than 20 seconds.  Is there something I'm missing durability-wise?  It's actually a 67 kg bar  :confused:

Actually in general, I noticed that all components seem much weaker, even the internal ones like the motors and batteries.  They seem like they break off a lot more easily, which is awesome!  But I'd think the weapons would be a little more robust.

I agree.  I’m looking at the damage one of our robot’s wheels took from their last fight from a drum spinner.  Both wheels cracked (two separate hits) rather than breaking outright.  The in-game model would have them ripping off from a hit from an A28-400-powered 20-pound drum at 1:1 gear ratio and 24 volts.

Offline min440303

  • Lightweight
  • Posts: 192
  • Rep: 2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1963 on: February 29, 2020, 07:49:57 AM »
There are some issues with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]
I've talked about this issue at P93 before, and ya, it still exists. And here's a more obvious example.
 
 

Btw, we kinda have demands of the size scaling factor cuz we've made numbers of bots that are normal-sized in previous builds but now they are slightly a bot small. Also some replicas has many tiny detailings that we cannot make the bot small. It might take us a long as time to rescale them, but with the scale factor we can save a great amount of time rescaling them. It's like, it can rescale all the components that are able to resize(like chassis and all customed stuff) together with other components like motors, batteries and default wheels etc stay unchanged. Would it be something that can be realized?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 08:26:29 AM by min440303 »
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at

Offline WhamettNuht

  • *
  • Posts: 1302
  • Rep: 12
  • Robot Building Drag Queen
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Discord: WhamettNuht #1457
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1964 on: February 29, 2020, 10:05:08 AM »
Just gonna quickly add I won't be tackling the damage/health of any parts atm as I don't have a trustable point for reference.

Weights will be a slow burn but I'll get them out eventually :)
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1965 on: February 29, 2020, 11:48:43 AM »
There are some issues with the new custom wheels. When I replace my old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels with the new ones, some of my bots which used to drive well starts drifting, oversteering and bouncing.

For another, when my 4WD or 8WD bots only have 2 or 4 of the motors running while the other motors shut down, if they are attaching to the old custom rubber wheels or premade wheels, they work fine. But if attaching to new custom wheels, the bot will fly to the air when driving.

Here is one of the examples.

  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]
I've talked about this issue at P93 before, and ya, it still exists. And here's a more obvious example.
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  
  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]  

Btw, we kinda have demands of the size scaling factor cuz we've made numbers of bots that are normal-sized in previous builds but now they are slightly a bot small. Also some replicas has many tiny detailings that we cannot make the bot small. It might take us a long as time to rescale them, but with the scale factor we can save a great amount of time rescaling them. It's like, it can rescale all the components that are able to resize(like chassis and all customed stuff) together with other components like motors, batteries and default wheels etc stay unchanged. Would it be something that can be realized?

I'll take a look tomorrow, but I'm not quite sure I understand the problem.

1. Scaling has been broken for a while.  This build fixes that.
2. What you make in the robot workshop now matches the scale of the arena.  What you see in the workshop is what you get.  This wasn't true before.  The "Normal" you saw before was wrong.  Robots were scaled inconsistently in the arena based on their weight.  That is fixed now.
3. You shouldn't need to rescale anything.  Everything should be as it was before, just now correctly sized in the arena.

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1966 on: February 29, 2020, 11:53:24 AM »
What he meant, is that you could scale the whole bot incl components at the same time with one slider. Something like a Scale factor when youre making a custom part.

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1967 on: February 29, 2020, 12:04:53 PM »
Hmmm.  That would be kind of weird to implement.  Some things can be scaled while others can’t.  Things would definitely come out looking strange.  Here’s an example:

1. I create a robot that has batteries arranged in a brick.  Each battery is immediately adjacent to the next battery.
2. I scale the robot down.  Batteries can’t scale down.  Now the batteries are overlapping each other.

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1968 on: February 29, 2020, 12:05:48 PM »
Hmmm.  That would be kind of weird to implement.  Some things can be scaled while others can’t.  Things would definitely come out looking strange.  Here’s an example:

1. I create a robot that has batteries arranged in a brick.  Each battery is immediately adjacent to the next battery.
2. I scale the robot down.  Batteries can’t scale down.  Now the batteries are overlapping each other.

Players can easily move them, If they need to scale down, they do need to take that into consideration

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1969 on: February 29, 2020, 12:13:40 PM »
Or another case:

1. I make a drivetrain with motors, wheels, and gearboxes.
2. I scale the robot up.
3. Now the wheels don’t reach the ground, and they are completely inside the chassis.

There is all sorts of weirdness that would occur with a scale slider because some components are not scalable.

Offline min440303

  • Lightweight
  • Posts: 192
  • Rep: 2
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1970 on: February 29, 2020, 12:13:58 PM »
We know that, but moving batteries and motors is a thousand times easier than rescaling the whole bot.

For example a bot has 600+ colliders, but only no more than 20 of them are unscalable stuffs. And the rest 500+ has to be rescaled and reconnected accurately like the original one.

Also, if we don't use the scaling factor, we still need to move those unscalable things to right position. It doesn't make any difference, but if we got that scaling factor, we can easily finish the rescaling part.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 01:01:00 PM by min440303 »
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1971 on: February 29, 2020, 01:19:28 PM »
Or another case:

1. I make a drivetrain with motors, wheels, and gearboxes.
2. I scale the robot up.
3. Now the wheels don’t reach the ground, and they are completely inside the chassis.

There is all sorts of weirdness that would occur with a scale slider because some components are not scalable.

Id rather move the motors/belts and batteries in 5 minutes than rescaling the whole bot with 200+ parts in 40 minutes

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1972 on: February 29, 2020, 01:30:37 PM »
Also, please understand that if you scale your 110 kg robot up you won’t make weight.

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1973 on: February 29, 2020, 01:35:18 PM »
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1974 on: February 29, 2020, 01:38:04 PM »
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.
Again, we are aware of that

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1975 on: February 29, 2020, 01:43:43 PM »
I guess I still don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish.  What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?  Things are now scaled correctly.  Whatever looks right in the workshop now matches what you see in the arena.

Offline CodeSilver23

  • RR2 Enthusiast and Design Innovator
  • Heavyweight
  • Posts: 561
  • Rep: -2
  • Stars v Legends founder, Inventor of the Wheel-fix
    • https://www.youtube.com/c
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Channel
    • Awards
  • See profile for gamer tags: Yes
  • Discord: CodeSilverGaming
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1976 on: February 29, 2020, 01:46:32 PM »
A scale factor of 1.5 (typical for many of the robots in the 110 kg range) would make the robots mass increase by a factor of 1.5^3 = 3.375X.  This would put the robots at 371 kg.
That still only takes like 5 minutes to fix. Rescaling each individual part takes 10x longer.
Accomplishments:

Offline kix

  • RR2 dev
  • *
  • Posts: 3452
  • Rep: -3
  • H
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1977 on: February 29, 2020, 01:47:04 PM »
I guess I still don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish.  What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?  Things are now scaled correctly.  Whatever looks right in the workshop now matches what you see in the arena.
I dont need to accomplish anything. But it would be a good addition as you can always mess up the scaling while building

Offline cjbruce

  • Super Heavyweight
  • Posts: 963
  • Rep: 11
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1978 on: February 29, 2020, 01:47:16 PM »
Maybe a picture would help?

Why do you want to change the scale of the parts?  Aren’t they scaled correctly now?

Offline CodeSilver23

  • RR2 Enthusiast and Design Innovator
  • Heavyweight
  • Posts: 561
  • Rep: -2
  • Stars v Legends founder, Inventor of the Wheel-fix
    • https://www.youtube.com/c
    • View Profile
    • Youtube Channel
    • Awards
  • See profile for gamer tags: Yes
  • Discord: CodeSilverGaming
Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1979 on: February 29, 2020, 01:49:14 PM »
Maybe a picture would help?

Why do you want to change the scale of the parts?  Aren’t they scaled correctly now?
No that’s not what we mean. We’re just saying that in general it would be a nice addition to the game.
Accomplishments: