Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187554 times)

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1900 on: February 25, 2020, 03:26:19 AM »
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Yeah well considering that axes mostly do internal damage and mostly dent armor in, maybe that could be taken into consideration?

I was going to email about this, but might aswell mention it here haha!

I was thinking robot health should now be determined by the health of the control board. Obviously once armour panels have been knocked off, any direct hits would cause massive damage and immobilize a robot instantly (therefore giving crushers/axes/spikes/drills a fighting chance) but I thought this could then be worked around by players just hoarding a bunch of armour shapes around their control boards (which I know isn't unusual for real life robots, but even so). So on top of damage health, what about 'Impact' health? The more velocity & KJ's a control board is put under from impacts according to the parts around it, the more damage it takes? Therefore flippers, hammers, rammers, ect. also have a fighting chance.

And of course heat damage from any flamethrowers/CO2 vents ;)

If we still want to get rid of the health bars aswell, we could always do a variation of the LED component which changes colour/flashes according to the control boards health? (So Green=Good health, Amber=Sustained Damage, Red=Low Health, Flashing Red=Health Warning, Off=Robot immobilized). It wouldn't be too dissimilar to how robots IRL require power LED's.
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1901 on: February 25, 2020, 05:44:02 AM »
I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm thinking axe damage might have to be based on impulse.  Axes have maybe 1% of the KE of a spinner.
Yeah well considering that axes mostly do internal damage and mostly dent armor in, maybe that could be taken into consideration?

I was going to email about this, but might aswell mention it here haha!

I was thinking robot health should now be determined by the health of the control board. Obviously once armour panels have been knocked off, any direct hits would cause massive damage and immobilize a robot instantly (therefore giving crushers/axes/spikes/drills a fighting chance) but I thought this could then be worked around by players just hoarding a bunch of armour shapes around their control boards (which I know isn't unusual for real life robots, but even so). So on top of damage health, what about 'Impact' health? The more velocity & KJ's a control board is put under from impacts according to the parts around it, the more damage it takes? Therefore flippers, hammers, rammers, ect. also have a fighting chance.

And of course heat damage from any flamethrowers/CO2 vents ;)

If we still want to get rid of the health bars aswell, we could always do a variation of the LED component which changes colour/flashes according to the control boards health? (So Green=Good health, Amber=Sustained Damage, Red=Low Health, Flashing Red=Health Warning, Off=Robot immobilized). It wouldn't be too dissimilar to how robots IRL require power LED's.

Maybe it is just semantics, but robots don’t typically have a “control board”.  Do you mean the radio receiver?  This is and the battery/electrical distribution system would be the single points of failure in our robots,

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1902 on: February 25, 2020, 06:24:04 AM »
I think he meant cb just for simplicity's sake, the distribution system got me thinking. I assume that we will be able to power individual motors with individual receivers, and batteries, so if a weapon battery bursts and eventually dies, the weapon will just stop functioning, same goes with receiver

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1903 on: February 25, 2020, 07:06:30 AM »
I think he meant cb just for simplicity's sake, the distribution system got me thinking. I assume that we will be able to power individual motors with individual receivers, and batteries, so if a weapon battery bursts and eventually dies, the weapon will just stop functioning, same goes with receiver

A typical electronics setup would be
Radio transmitter-> radio receiver

Motors are not powered by the receiver.  They are powered by speed controllers (ESCs).  The speed controllers for each motor get power from a single battery system, and a control signal from the radio receiver. 

If you knock out the radio receiver, the robot shuts down.  If you knock out power, the robot shuts down.  If you knock out anything else, you will only disable one motor.

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1904 on: February 25, 2020, 08:53:14 AM »
I was actually thinking of the Speed Controller. Afterall, that is the main central hub where all of the robot is connected to. If that goes, then all motors, batteries, and receivers have nothing to feed off of.
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1905 on: February 25, 2020, 09:08:50 AM »
I was actually thinking of the Speed Controller. Afterall, that is the main central hub where all of the robot is connected to. If that goes, then all motors, batteries, and receivers have nothing to feed off of.

Ahh.  I see.  We use separate speed controllers for each motor on our robots.  We can combine speed controllers, but the maximum I am familiar with are 3-channel speed controllers.  This would work for three motors, but many designs use more than three motors.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1906 on: February 25, 2020, 09:44:39 AM »
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1907 on: February 25, 2020, 09:53:30 AM »
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.

Agreed! Love this idea!
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1908 on: February 25, 2020, 10:35:25 AM »
I'm thinking that the right way to do this might be something like the following:

1. A user picks and places their motors.
2. A little table appears in the upper left corner containing all of the electronics that need to be placed.  If it has been placed already it should be grayed out.

For example, a robot like Tombstone with 2 drive motors and 1 weapon motor would have the following:

1. The user places the two drive motors (2 x A40-300) and the weapon motor (1 x ME0708).
2. The table in the upper left would include the following components:

Battery Pack (24 volts minimum)
1 x power switch
1 x radio receiver
3 x high power Electronic Speed Controllers

Once all of the necessary electronic components are place, the "TEST" button would light up.

EDIT - PS, for those of you how know Tombstone, it doesn't actually use a speed controller for the weapon motor.  It uses a high current relay instead.  Every time they tried to run the motor with a speed controller it fried the speed controller right away.  I think Ray Billings might have mentioned something like 1800 Amps of current were drawn when the motor started.

Agreed! Love this idea!

Yup this would be very well to have.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1909 on: February 25, 2020, 10:47:59 AM »
We would need to figure out the UI for parallel vs series batteries.  For example, if someone were using LiPo batteries and wanted 33.3 volts with enough capacity to last the match, they might want:

9S / 4P

That means a total of 36 cells to get the required voltage and Amp-Hour capacity.  Oof.  We are going to have to think about how the UI is going to work for this...

For reference, we will need to build something like the Team Tentacle Amp-Hour calculator into the game:

http://runamok.tech/squid/newtorquecalc.htm

Offline BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1910 on: February 25, 2020, 06:27:47 PM »
Also circumvolution is only a 16kg spinner, and at that size its... Not really supposed to be durable

I don't know anything about Circumvolution (tried Googling it and nothing came up), but one of Tombstone's blades weighs around 30 kg alone, so I think it would make sense for a 16 kg bot to be OHKO'd by that weapon.

If a robot simulator is desired, I definitely think that OHKOs should be a thing, but I understand if certain bot building limitations make it hard to design a bot to prevent that from happening.  I imagine one would have to design a frame, the way the frame is bolted or welded together, how the body plates attach to the frame, etc.

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1911 on: February 25, 2020, 07:20:54 PM »
Also circumvolution is only a 16kg spinner, and at that size its... Not really supposed to be durable

I don't know anything about Circumvolution (tried Googling it and nothing came up), but one of Tombstone's blades weighs around 30 kg alone, so I think it would make sense for a 16 kg bot to be OHKO'd by that weapon.

If a robot simulator is desired, I definitely think that OHKOs should be a thing, but I understand if certain bot building limitations make it hard to design a bot to prevent that from happening.  I imagine one would have to design a frame, the way the frame is bolted or welded together, how the body plates attach to the frame, etc.
Circumvolution isn’t a replica, it’s an RR2 bot made by Cyar Skirata.
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Offline Hobo Droo

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1912 on: February 26, 2020, 01:49:07 AM »
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.
kevin the cube is gone in fortnite

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1913 on: February 26, 2020, 06:14:06 AM »
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.

That is intentional.  The 3 inch wheels were meant as temporary stand-ins for the foam wheels used in US antweight kits like the Fingertech Viper.  They weigh almost nothing.  If you wanted to use one with an actual heavyweight, it would just be a foam decoration, completely ripping off at the slightest touch.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1914 on: February 26, 2020, 06:39:36 AM »
A problem I’ve run into while building is that the 3-inch wheels have almost no health (0.05 hp). This makes it extremely difficult to make low or smaller robots, since the wheels come off at the slightest touch. The 4-inch wheels have hundreds of times more health than the 3-inch and can withstand a much more realistic amount of hits, so I’m not sure if this lack of HP is intentional or not.

That is intentional.  The 3 inch wheels were meant as temporary stand-ins for the foam wheels used in US antweight kits like the Fingertech Viper.  They weigh almost nothing.  If you wanted to use one with an actual heavyweight, it would just be a foam decoration, completely ripping off at the slightest touch.
but what if i have to use it on a hw?
Will there be an option?

Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1915 on: February 26, 2020, 07:02:39 AM »
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1916 on: February 26, 2020, 07:10:19 AM »
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Yeah I think the issue with the health of the new wheels (not the 3 inch foam one) is that the weight of a 3x3x3 scaled rim is not even .1 kg, but the tires at that scale are like 16 kg.
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Offline WhamettNuht

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1917 on: February 26, 2020, 07:23:03 AM »
Yeah I'm aware.... I'm still trying to find a good base line for all stats on the parts (low level and high level) then ratio them across all parts. But there's been some other things being developed that have taken my attention away from that for the time being. It will be done though! :)
Damn I should probably put something fancy in this bit huh?

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1918 on: February 26, 2020, 08:58:00 AM »
Oh yea btw, when can i expect the next update? I am hosting a tournament that has something that is a secret.

Offline min440303

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1919 on: February 26, 2020, 11:12:36 AM »
You should be able to make something very similar (or even better and smaller!) with the Wheel Builder components. Granted they're not perfect currently and probably as weak as the current 3 inch wheel, but that is what they are there for :)
Yeah I think the issue with the health of the new wheels (not the 3 inch foam one) is that the weight of a 3x3x3 scaled rim is not even .1 kg, but the tires at that scale are like 16 kg.
Therefore I set the rims as decorations.;)
Mad but not mad.

Stuff I kinda done at