Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 187640 times)

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1800 on: February 15, 2020, 02:08:03 PM »
Hopefully all SvL entrants are safe...

Oh man!  I'm so sorry! Eep!

 :embarr
Maybe you could create a build with the bugfixes and everything but with the old meshes
I mean, if someone wants to make that happen, I’m all for it. I’d probably need to talk to Kupa first though.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1801 on: February 15, 2020, 02:41:49 PM »
Not doing it that way was my call.  WhammetNuht originally created an “old” and “new” version of the motors.  I made the decision to simplify things for newer players who would inevitably wonder why there were two versions with similar names, pick the wrong version, then be absolutely furious when their robots wouldn’t load because we deleted the “old” motors in some future build.  It would be better to rip off the bandaid now than to cause more problems later.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1802 on: February 15, 2020, 02:50:07 PM »
Not doing it that way was my call.  WhammetNuht originally created an “old” and “new” version of the motors.  I made the decision to simplify things for newer players who would inevitably wonder why there were two versions with similar names, pick the wrong version, then be absolutely furious when their robots wouldn’t load because we deleted the “old” motors in some future build.  It would be better to rip off the bandaid now than to cause more problems later.
Maybe just hide them now? Like they can still be ingame but they cant be selected at all


Maybe use old ampflows models for old versions of ampflows and hiding them?

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1803 on: February 15, 2020, 03:08:13 PM »
From what I'm seeing, The Ampflow 30-400's are severely broken, the 40-300's are fine, and the Motoenergy spins the other way now, which is fine, but it's WAY too heavy now. Thankfully all SvL have the same issue, which is the 30-400's, so fixing that should fix all of them.
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Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1804 on: February 15, 2020, 03:11:25 PM »
From what I'm seeing, The Ampflow 30-400's are severely broken, the 40-300's are fine, and the Motoenergy spins the other way now, which is fine, but it's WAY too heavy now. Thankfully all SvL have the same issue, which is the 30-400's, so fixing that should fix all of them.
No kidding about the Etek-R.

Offline Hobo Droo

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1805 on: February 15, 2020, 03:19:29 PM »
One solution to this problem that I can think of is to set the old 30-400s back to the old attachment points. This would fix the problem where old robots have broken motors. The new 30-400s could still have the new attachment points, which would fix the broken robots we have and still keep the new motor attachment points in the game.
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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1806 on: February 15, 2020, 03:53:17 PM »
Brushless motors. I gotta give wham credit, its well made
There is one fatal flaw


Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1807 on: February 15, 2020, 03:58:46 PM »
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?

Offline Team Lightning

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1808 on: February 15, 2020, 04:01:25 PM »
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
Could you change the old motor meshes back too?
EDIT: That would make the attachment points for the old motors more accurate.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1809 on: February 15, 2020, 04:05:40 PM »
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?

It wont be that much of an issue, we could always move the motors a bit more forward/back.

I usually wouldnt do this too however 80+ of my bots are screwed up which is a big number

Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
Could you change the old motor meshes back too?

Jfc no stop it youre not contributing to anyone

Offline Hobo Droo

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1810 on: February 15, 2020, 04:14:03 PM »
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?

I agree with Kix, even if the motors are slightly off, we could easily readjust them and it would be far better than what they are like now. Although it's a shame that there's no perfect way to add the new motors and not mess up legacy robots, it seems like resetting the old motors and hiding them is best option there is.
kevin the cube is gone in fortnite

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1811 on: February 15, 2020, 04:27:41 PM »
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?
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Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1812 on: February 15, 2020, 06:00:43 PM »
Ugh.  It kills me to say this, but there is a way to reset the motors back to a similar configuration we had before, hiding them in the process.  It won’t be perfect though.  Alignment will be off.  Attachment points won’t be in the exact same spots.

But there is a way to make it happen.  I just hate it because it will become a legacy problem that will never go away.

Is it worth doing if the motors don’t go exactly back to the way they were before?
It’s better than our current predicament. I’d feel much better doing minor adjustments on 100 bots than doing major adjustments on 100 bots.
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1813 on: February 15, 2020, 06:45:23 PM »
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?

Not really.  This build has a ton of commits and affected hundreds of lines of code and many hours worth of assets.  The new build would be done specifically to address legacy compatibility.  It might take a few days.

Offline CodeSilver23

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1814 on: February 15, 2020, 06:52:06 PM »
Would it be possible to release the Feb 5 build again but with the Motor gyro fix as the only change?

Not really.  This build has a ton of commits and affected hundreds of lines of code and many hours worth of assets.  The new build would be done specifically to address legacy compatibility.  It might take a few days.
Aight. How long would it take to fix the 30-400’s for the new build? Contemplating whether i should fix all the entries or just wait it out.
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Offline BATTLEMASTER

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1815 on: February 15, 2020, 09:40:39 PM »
I'm really enjoying this new build!  I made a couple test robots and noticed the following:

-Mobility kills are definitely a real deal now with the wheel building tools.  It doesn't take too much effort to use my bar spinner to remove tires from my 4-wheeled drum spinner to immobilize it, just like in real robot combat.

-I love that chassis panels can now break off.  I think it's safe to say that the health bar can go away as KOs are effected by smashing the other robot to pieces in some manner IRL.

-It seems that material resilience is still pretty high compared to what I see on TV.  Shouldn't a bar spinner with 100 kJ of energy absolutely destroy polycarbonate almost regardless of realistic thickness?

-I think the bottom of the chassis should be destroyable.  Any components mounted to the destroyed bottom of the chassis go with it.  So if the bot controller is mounted to the bottom of the chassis and that panel goes away, so does the controller and the bot is KO.

--Building on that thought, perhaps the tree structure of building bots is too limiting in the way these things can actually be destroyed?  IRL bots keep going until they can't, either though mobility issues or complete dismemberment.  I remember seeing a battle between Warhawk and Hydra where Hydra literally dismembered Warhawk, but Warhawk's individual components kept moving based on operator inputs.  The bot got counted out because it was immobilized.  Another example was a fight between Tombstone and some kind of pushbot.  But Tombstone's bar spinner nailed a corner of the push bot and broke the bot in half diagonally.  Yeah, that bot was down for the count.

With that being said, if the way the game works could be converted from the tree structure to some kind of universal interconnectivity, the ways stuff could be destroyed would be less limiting.

-How fine can destruction be made?  Is it reasonable to believe that computers can simulate panels shredding or shattering to some degree based on the materials and type if impact involved?  Realistically, panels may do more than just break off - they may be ripped in half or shattered to pieces too.  Then the bot can puke out batteries, motors, etc.

Looking forward to more progress  :thumbup

EDIT:  Totally destroyed this robot, but even with the side panels gone, it took awhile for the bar spinner to eviscerate it of its motors and batteries.  The damage slider is turned all the way up to 200%, so perhaps it needs to be 400%?

 
Shatterbox II destroyed after awhile.jpg
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 11:30:58 PM by BATTLEMASTER »

Offline Gulden

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1816 on: February 16, 2020, 12:58:19 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.
I have several opinions.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1817 on: February 16, 2020, 02:59:57 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up

Offline Arcane

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1818 on: February 16, 2020, 05:59:55 AM »
Okay, so I’ve had a good amount of time to play around with this build of the game and I have to say the changes to mobility with these new motors have improved drastically. Bots that drove somewhat okay in previous builds have become a lot more mobile. The AP of the Ampflow motors are a little funky but overall I’m really happy with the direction you guys are taking this. Also, the new models for the motors look great.

The LED lights are a great addition to the workshop, I was half expecting them to tank my FPS but I haven’t had any issues at all. The changes to the hot keys are greatly appreciated too.

I’m liking the new arena, especially the camera placement as it allows for some nice screenshots. I’m excited to see what can be made possible now that you guys have an arena building tool.

One thing I would like to ask is if there are any plans to remove the damage scaler from the settings? It’s a small thing but I do occasionally reduce the damage to 10% or 0% to mess around and I would miss that setting if it was removed.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #1819 on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:20 AM »
Future compatibility really shouldn't be something we worry about.  We should expect robots from previous patches to lose viability every now and then.
I'm honestly surprised this is the first time anyone's complained about this.

For you its not a problem, but for me with again, over 80 robots, i feel like i dont wanna refix them all because its too much work and hassle

I was already in hell when i had to redo most of my bots once when they wouldnt show up

I will see what I can do today. 

Guldenflame is right.  You can not expect a piece of software in the Alpha state to remain static.  If so that is bad because it means that the software has been abandoned and will never reach release and maintainance.  There are times when we are going to have to change or remove things that are going to completely invalidate some robots.  Case in point: the flail.  It is broken.  There is no easy way to get it working without a LOT of effort.  This isn't effort that is worth the time considering how many other higher-priority things we have to do.

You are also right.  It absolutely sucks to see hundreds of hours of work become deprecated by a software decision someone else made.  If there are any Flash developers still out there, they know what I'm talking about.

With that being said, I'm going to try to restore the AmpFlow motors to the way they previously worked, but hiding them in the process.  If I succeed, they will still exist in your old robot and still work, but will no longer be available in the list.  If you accidentally delete the motor, it is gone and you will need to use the new version.