Poll

What do you like doing most in RA2/RA3/robot combat games?

Building robots
Local single player battles with manually-controlled robots
Local multiplayer battles  with manually-controlled robots (PvP with controllers or a shared keyboard)
AI-only tournament battles
Other?  Please comment below.

Author Topic: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development  (Read 15335 times)

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #120 on: December 22, 2017, 02:00:03 PM »
I like the idea of the pneumatic system having its own individual components. it feels like those parts could be adapted to serve in a similar fashion in crusher/hydraulic systems as well.

That's what we were thinking too.  The extra parts definitely take up space, so there is now a balancing act to do, and you really need to decide if the extra space is worth it, versus just using motors.  It is also possible to run a pneumatic system without a buffer tank, but the amount of force produced is extremely limited by the rate of evaporation of the CO2 as it leave the high pressure tank.

Eruption is the gold standard, so I did some tweaking to get the numbers to feel right.  I'm thinking it is okay to have a pneumatics system that is less powerful than Eruption's but going much more powerful than that would be so weight- and space-inefficient that it shouldn't be worth the tradeoff.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #121 on: December 22, 2017, 02:03:38 PM »
The new builds are up on our brand new itch.io page!

Here is the link:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

In addition to this thread, we will be posting periodic updates on Twitter: https://twitter.com/robotrumblegame

The official website also contains a signup page for game-related emails.  When we are ready to go into beta testing, we are planning to use the email list for beta testers, so please sign up there if you are interested in Beta testing (hopefully next year!).  The official game website is: http://robot-rumble.com

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #122 on: December 22, 2017, 02:07:11 PM »


This is a picture of a 5-robot battle.  Note the lines indicating each robot AI's path to its target.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #123 on: December 22, 2017, 02:08:55 PM »


Sumo Basho!

This is a tricky arena against an AI opponent.  There isn't much space, and it is easy to accidentally fall off.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #124 on: December 22, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »


10" AmpFlow wheels.  They are all you can add at the moment.  :smile:

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2017, 03:00:56 PM »
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:

seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2017, 03:54:53 PM »
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(Image removed from quote.)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Drat!  I will try to fix it tonight.  Sorry about that!

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2017, 04:51:25 PM »
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(Image removed from quote.)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Fixed!  I accidentally included just the .exe, rather than the .zip with all of the files.

Offline yugitom

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2017, 09:00:01 PM »
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:


Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2017, 09:41:33 PM »
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

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Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2017, 04:04:33 AM »
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!
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Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #131 on: December 23, 2017, 08:12:56 AM »
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Ahh yes!  Our first crash logs! :)

There are four of us building the game, and I was hoping that if were stable for all four of us on different machines that it would be stable for pretty much everyone.  I'm using a 2013 11" MacBook Air with Intel graphics myself, and it is running pretty well, but I do have 8 GB of RAM.  Maybe I can dust off an old Windows laptop from the closet to see if I can reproduce the crash...

Would you mind sending the crash log to developers@nerdislandstudios.com?

Also, details of your machine's OS and specifications would be really helpful.  Thank you so much!

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2017, 08:33:07 AM »
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:
(Image removed from quote.)

Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.

Agreed on all counts! 

Right now Eruption's "tactics" consist of the following:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. Fire flipper the instant you collide with enemy.
3. Back up slightly until the flipper is reset.
4. Repeat step #1.

Carbide is even simpler:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. When in range, turn on spinner.


We did a bunch of play testing with my robotics club students, and they found that the computer AI is frustratingly difficult to beat.  The computer is 100% agressive, and unlike in RA2, there is no "thinking delay" for the computer to evaluate its list of tactics.  All in all, I thought it was really good training for my students, who are going to take their real-life robots into battle at the end of February, but not so great for a game where it would be nice to be able to win against a computer opponent every once in a while.

There needs to be a balance, and, unless the game is designed to be AI vs AI, it isn't fair that a computer has zero reaction time when a human has a reaction time on the order of 2/10ths of a second.  On the flip side, the computer is stupid when it comes to hazards.  Right now it is not really avoiding hazards, it just marks an area around a hazard that is "not drivable".  As a human, you can exploit these areas by positioning yourself or the computer in them, then watch as the computer tries to get back to a drivable area.  It also doesn't have any sense of positioning itself or you with respect to the hazard, so you can use that to force the AI into a hazard.

I'm hoping that as I build out the AI system, things will start to come into better balance between computer and human.  We'll see. :)


After reading through a decade and a half of game development threads on here, I understand the sentiment about losing faith in abandoned development efforts.   The good news is that this is not Nerd Island Studios' first multi-year project, it is the fifth, and I am committed to seeing this one through.  It is, however, the most ambitious project I have ever started, and has required the development of more tech than any of the other projects.  We are shooting for a total development time of about 2000 hours, and I think we are on track for a mid-2019 launch.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2017, 09:55:14 AM »
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!

Oh man, thanks for all of the great feedback!

1.  Thanks for pointing out camera control mapping.  I'm working on a MacBook without quick access to F-keys, so we might do number keys instead.  Either way, controls up at the top of the keyboard would probably work great. 
2.  Self-righting should be working.  I must have accidentally nerfed it when I rebuilt the pneumatics system.
3.  Damage is our next big thing to tackle.  Right now, damage is based entirely on Joules of energy absorbed, not on force.  This works great for things like "my robot just bashed into a wall and is taking internal damage as components are jostled", but completely ignores things like pincher weapons that apply a consistent force over time.  Right now I am thinking a hybrid of the two might be best.
4. Countdown timer -- check! :)
5. I'll defer to @tashic regarding the component maker. 
6. The ability to make arbitrary 3D shapes exists, but right now there is no texturing/materials.
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
8. I will defer to @tashic regarding attachment points as well.

This is a great list.  I expect to knock out a least a few of these over the next month or so.  The biggest one is damage, followed by a more robust AI system.  The game still doesn't feel right, with AI being *too* perfect.

Offline kix

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2017, 10:30:54 AM »
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
Prolly 4, as it would then be 1,2,3,4
Keep up the good work, and take your time (all of you guys)
Doing RW2016 arena ATM so if you need one, i can send you a model
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Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #135 on: December 23, 2017, 10:44:53 AM »
Okay, so you actually added quite a lot of my suggestions! Nice one!  :claping

The only thing that doesn't seem to be added is:

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

...But I understand your point about getting the damage system right first before adding ripping off components as a factor.

Hmm... What else can I think of to add?

-More Robots!!!

-When I did the 4-bot rumble in the test arena, if me or my opponent died, the fight just ended instead of the remaining two fighting it out to a win. I'm guessing this is because 2+ players hasn't been properly implemented yet, and those two extra robots you added aren't recognised by the game as p3 and p4? Hmm...

-Whenever either the human or the AI wins a fight, the controls get jammed and the bot just keeps on doing whatever the last input was. For example, if you were going forward when you won the fight, you'll just keep going forward and run into a wall. I think you should be able to control your robot after the fight, instead of having it taken away from you.

-RUMBLE MODE!!! Select your bot, select "Rumble Mode" for the opponent bot, and then a slider shows up, that can go from 2 to 99. Yes, 100-bot rumbles. I don't care if it runs at 0.1FPS, I want it. The however-many bots are selected at random from the pool, as long as they're at the correct weight class.

-Ooh, speaking of weight classes, how about adding that in next? I know right now all the bots are HW, but just labelling them as such should help when you do add MW's, LW's, FW's, AW's etc...

Can't think of anything else right now, but I'm pretty sure stuff'll come to me around the same time the next update rolls around. Until then, keep up the hard work!


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Offline Tashic

Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #136 on: December 23, 2017, 05:51:00 PM »

- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker

- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)


There already is a component maker, the way it works is that you make individual macro-parts (flippers, hammers, discs, whatever)
that I called "structures" by using groups of "shapes", and I have made a ra2 chassis style tool to make custom shapes.
These macro-parts can then be used in the "robot assembly" part of the botlab.

I'm still thinking how to handle attachment points, with the system that I made I don't think something exactly like ra2 is good, I can see attachments useful to set a custom "origin" point that isn't the center of the grid (or the center of mass as I will probably change).
I'm thinking of adding a snap function for moving/rotating/scaling parts in 3d space to allow for an easier time making symmetric robots if you don't want to type the exact values in the input fields.
And I plan to make a "center" function mainly for axles and wheels/spinners.

I'm now trying to figure out a way to make the system feel more natural, as I see it's not the most intuitive. But hopefully it will be worth it with a degree of freedom higher than in our current dsl ra2.

Offline dragonsteincole

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #137 on: December 23, 2017, 07:08:56 PM »
Regarding attachment points, I think Kerbal Space Program has a decent builder which may be applicable to this game. There are attach points that are pre-defined on certain items, where you can only attach AP to AP. i.e a wheel onto a motor's axle. But also allowing other parts to snap freely onto a surface or part. i.e a tooth on a bar/disc for weapons, skirts on bodywork. It also has options for symmetry, precise snapping to a surface, translation and rotation tools as well, which I think would work well for a bot builder, in comparison to RA2 which is closer to LEGO-style building.

It would be nice to have defined weightclasses as well, but not have the limits, or the number of weightclasses be a set, unchangeable value.

Offline Tashic

Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #138 on: December 23, 2017, 07:17:19 PM »
Yea, in fact I got heavy inspiration from KSP itself, with the move/rotate tools.

Offline cjbruce

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Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
« Reply #139 on: January 01, 2018, 06:28:59 PM »
I just put Robot Rumble 2.0 on an iPhone 7 Plus, and here is the result:



The game runs solidly during combat, but the BotLab crashes as soon as you try to load it.  This might be fine -- a limited action-oriented version of the game for mobile/Apple TV/console, with the BotLab and Arena Builder reserved for the full version on Windows/Mac/Linux.

Speaking of which, has anyone tried the Linux build yet?  It should work okay, but I don't have a machine set up to test it.

Sometime over the next few days I am going to try to get the game running on Apple TV for local multiplayer with two controllers.