Deathmatch 5 - Signups Closed!

[RedAce]

I mean, of course I was going to be excited enough to post the discussion thread for this tournament at least.  Not sure when I would like to get this going, but with how things have been going so far in terms of organization, this might just be a winter project and tournament that might I might work into the year 2020.  I can't believe myself it's almost been over two years since I even started this series.  It just doesn't feel like I've been doing this many for this long already.  Let's hope I can make this tournament series even better once again.  Shall we?

GENERAL RULES:
- DSL 2.2 CW
- IRL Building Style
- 48 Entrants
- One bot per person, but if signups are in a slow enough state, I will allow secondary signups.
- I'm willing to AI to the best of my ability if you are not able to, but don't complain what I AI'd your bot (It will not change once the SBV thread is up unless I have made an obvious mistake during the process.)
- Seeded builders will be allowed to have up to two bots maximum, and can get at least one reserved spot if they wish.  Seeded bots can be automatically re-entered from Deathmatch 4 if they wish.  I will ask if they would like to send an update to the current ruleset, especially if said bot violates a new rule.
- Unseeded entrants will not be reserved, and I cannot allow reserving spots or placeholder bots for any reason.
- While you can re-enter an exact bot that was entered in a previous Deathmatch, I would VERY MUCH APPRECIATE as many updated/newer bots in general.
- Any attempt to exploit a loophole will be rejected immediately.
- You can send your entrant to me through a personal message through GTM or Discord (ThatRedAceGuy#0948 is my tag if you want to add me and/or just send through there)

BUILDING RULES:
- DSL 2.2 Bots Only
- Cruiserweight bots only (399.1 - 600.0 KG)
- Build and enter a design that YOU built yourself  (Yes, I had to make this a rule as I got "placeholder" bots trying to abuse the update rule.  I can understand why, but it makes the 'first come, first serve' thing very scummy)
- I can allow custom AI .py files if you need your entrant to do something specific that would otherwise not be possible with a normal .py file.  However, if it that makes your bot overpowered or is pointless and/or just stupid memes, then the entrant along with the custom AI .py is banned.
- Very Strict IRL Rules Apply.  I will stricter than I ever have been in the past, and I will reject your bot on the smallest of occasions.  I don't ask for much, but do your damndest to make the best you can ever make.  (Obvious Try-Hard bots will be rejected immediately, of course.)
- You must have a bot that must show controlled movement at all times.
- Invincible Armor (i.e. using batteries to defend your bot) is banned
- Shuffers are allowed, and will gain a 200 KG weight bonus, but that 200 KG must be used for the mechanism itself. (Walkers/Hoppers also apply in this category, but don't give me anything that is impossible to AI, unless you can AI it yourself).
- Modular robots are allowed, however, most of the internal and main design MUST remain the same for the interchangeable weaponry/forms, and no more than three configurations
- Multibots are allowed, but the total weight limit must have have a at least a 75:25 weight difference
- Weapon spam will not be tolerated.  With that said, I will limit the number of specific parts for an entrant.  If there is a balance between weapon and it's power, then I can allow it.  (Read the list of limitations for specific components for more details)
- Flamethrower bots are allowed, but using that bot with EternalFlame.py or a similar AI python is NOT.
- Custom AI Pythons (.py's) are allowed, but anything that makes your bot blatantly overpowered or just a meme will be disallowed.
- You can send your own component re-skins as long as you provide the necessary files to me when you enter and the ONLY change to said component(s) is the skin.
- The only cheatbot2 Components allowed are the Flatmotor, Slow Flatmotor, and the Overkill/TTD Servo Motor.  Everything else is banned (This means the AS balance patch and any components not in vanilla RA2 are banned.  Do NOT try and dance around this rule this time.)
- No components or anything similar from DSL 2.3 Beta, or whatever is currently going on.
- BFE, AAM, OBJRA2 and Every Sergepatcher Component Freedom tool, except for the weight bonus one, will be allowed for IRL purposes
- Deliberately terrible bots or joke-bots will be rejected instantly.  Please make something with effort for this.  (Inappropriate names and skins also count)
- If your robot takes too long to load then I reserve the right to reject it (I won't be too strict about this, due to CPU's being very subjective, but if it takes excessively long, I will reject them.  I'd say like close to two minutes is a cut-off)
- If I am feeling mixed opinions towards the legality of your entrant, then I will ask about certain details to make sure.
- You can send me as many updates as you need to.  However, If an updated bot is illegal, then I will use the previous version you sent me.

Component Limitations:

- Large Teeth (Typhoons & Ripping): 2 (4 for HS)
- Small Teeth (Typhoons & Cutting): 4 (6 for HS)
- Large/Medium Beater Bars: 8
- Small Beaters: 10
- Mechavore Discs: 1
- Microvore Discs: 2
- Minion Discs: 1
- Mini Minion Discs: 2
- VDMA Bursts/VDMA Front-Hinged Bursts/Storm Bursts: 2
- Beta Burst: 1

Special Note: Multi-bots are treated as one bot (So you can have 2 Small Typhoon Teeth per multi-bot, resulting in 4 Large Typhoon Teeth total, which is allowed).

Do NOT mix and match specific limitations unless there is VERY specific reason you chose that way (If you must, explain the best you can when you send your bot).

Custom Components/Patches:

This is just a special sub-category to list what components are allowed with download links provided (This will be updated as I go along):

IRL Components by DSC
Non-Damaging Wedgelets by Geese
Coloured Components Pack by Hoppin/SagarisRA2
Colored Drums by Bildschirm
Colored DSL Bars by 090901
Colored Mini Wheels by kix/Geese
Disc Covers by Badnik96 (These can also be reskinned if you'd like to of course)
Component frenZy hammers by Badnik96

BATTLE RULES:
- 3 minute length matches
- The Robot Wars 2016 Arena (Re-skinned) will be used for this tournament
- For people who have entered more than one bot, I will make sure both of your bots do NOT compete in the same heat.
- If a Multibot has 75% of the total bot eliminated, then the whole entrant is considered eliminated, and the heaviest portion of said Multibot will compete in Melees
- Only minor havoks will be shown in a main heat video (or ones that don't really affect any major outcomes), and bots will not be penalized for havoks.  However if a robot havoks more than enough times, then the robot will be eliminated and will be referenced to "technical issues"  (If the builder would like to see a video of the havoks for proof, then I will upload said video, and for the record, I'd say 20 havoks or crashes would be a tipping point for me to just forfeit it and move on).
- If my game crashes for a specific match, then I will take the most salvageable take with the least amount of havoks and do a judge's decisions from the match before the crash.
- If a bot shows no controlled movement at all for about 20 seconds, then I will consider it immobile.  There will be a visible timer for when it becomes noticeable and mostly shows zero sign of doing anything.  It will be displayed as a 10-Second warning timer.
- There will be eight heats released on a weekly format, with randomized draws for heats and battles.
- For the Pit Hazard, things will work a little bit differently.  If multiple bots enter the pit at once, then the last one to enter the pit will be declared the winner.  If one bot enters the pit, miraculously escapes, and another bot follows in the pit and stays, then the one who entered the pit zone first will be declared eliminated.
- Seeded bots will have a dedicated heat draw for them.  So Heat A will have Seed #1, Heat B will have Seed #3, Heat C will have Seed #5, etc.
- In the eight heats, there will be two qualifier three-way melees.  Winners will automatically advance to the heat semi-finals, Losers will move on to the 1-on-1 redemption battles.  The winners will advance into the heat semi-finals.  The Winner of the overall heat will advance to the Grand Final.
- The Grand Final will work slightly differently.  There will be all 1-on-1 battles for the rest of the tournament (The Grand Final Bracket will work depending on the winner of the heats: A vs E, F vs B, C vs G, & H vs D), but there will be also be a rumble to determine fifth place, and third place battle to decide seeds for next series.
- If there is no clear winner at the end, then I will be judging every bot fairly on based on Aggression, Style, and Control.  I will show a replay of the action (if any), and show the winner.  Once a heat is posted, I will post my notes and details on why I made said decision inside a spoiler tag.

Mini-Mayhem:

This is more of a lightweight competition that will be held at the same time as the main competition, but for lightweights.  You do NOT need to enter the main competition to enter this.  All of the above rules apply to this competition, EXCEPT for the following:

- 24 Entrants
- One bot per person
- Lightweight bots only (175.1 - 249.0 KG)
- Shuffers are allowed, and will gain a 150 KG weight bonus, but that 150 KG must be used for the mechanism itself. (Same walker rules apply, but if you're a mad enough lad for this weight class, then go for it lol).
- Modular bots and Multibots won't be allowed for this category
- The list of component limitations will provide what you can use, but Mechavore Discs, Minion Discs, Beta Burst Motors and Storm Front-Hinged Burst Motors are outright banned.
- There will be eight qualifiers held with three bots per melee.  The winner will advance onward to the eliminators.
- The eight bots that win their respective melee, will enter the eliminators that will work the same way as the Grand Final.

Component Limitations:

These are the maximum amount of the specific components you are allowed to have for your bot total.

- Large Beater Bars: 4
- Medium Beater Bars: 5
- Small Beater Bars: 6
- Large Typhoon Teeth: 2
- Small Typhoon Teeth: 3
- Microvore Discs: 1
- Mini Minion Discs: 1
- VDMA Burst Motors (including Front Hinged): 1

Do NOT mix and match specific limitations unless there is VERY specific reason you chose that way (If you must, explain the best you can when you send your bot).

Seeded Bots:

1. F1Krazy- Tearaway!
2. RedAce - Kopter
3. SR - DJ X: Vengeance Remix
4. Nabi - Kirin 3
5. Kix - Craplectric 2!
6. Hoppin - Veorra!
7. Doot - Archon
8. Sagaris - Vespin MkII!

! - Currently violating the new ruleset, so they must be updated before re-entering.

My Entrant(s):

Iguana 2 will be my Seeded Main Deathmatch 5 Entrant.



Agent Orange will be my Second Main Deathmatch 5 Entrant.



XTRMNT will be my Entrant for the Micro Mayhem LW side event.

SIGNUPS:

1. Tearaway Mk II (1) - F1Krazy
2. Iguana 2 (2) - RedAce
3. DJ X: Despair Remix (3) - SR
4. Kirin 3.6 (4) - Nabi
5. Craplectric 2 (5) - Kix
6. Fusion 3 (6) - Hoppin
7. Archon (7) - Doot
8. Vespin MKIII (8) - Sagaris
9. Agent Orange - RedAce
10. Distributor - KILLER
11. Victorious - King Bananan
12. Alloy - Superbomb
13. Proxy - MrBK
14. Solar Storm 5 - Plerco
15. Murderous Beetrute MkII - Double00Rhys2
16. KillerQuack - MrMatthews
17. Apogee II - TheRoboteer
18. 6 Wheels O Fright - Code Red
19. Bored Again - NickDustyOwl
20. DeRipper II - Wen
21. The Red Baron - Nabi
22. Lythanorax - Primeval
23. Gold Ecstasy - IdiotBrickDoctor
24. Sadlads - Geese
25. Cujo 2 - Cringey
26. Clamping Blade - Wambo
27. Streak - Badger
28. FIGHT! - Sevalent
29. Pulse 3 - Hoppin
30. Fire Ant - F1Krazy
31. Air Catcher V3 - NH
32. SnowStorm - NightRaven
33. The Zodiac - SR
34. Contrast - WonderfulProgress
35. Astatine - Hobo Droo
36. Launch Control - KupaTec
37. Hexide - Hard Bot
38. Tsuihou Kai - BSRaven
39. Storm Zer0 - KidDelta
40. SEND IT - Chris-chan (090901)
41. Outlandish Otter - NeonCalypso
42. Sleepwalker - Probably Rob
43. Orcatraz Evo - TheOrcCorp
44. A Large Wheel - 8Bean
45. Rigerding - Kilempel
46. Earth, Wind & Fire - Pokebro
47. Edgy - Guldenflame
48. Garfield - Same Dud


Mini Mayhem:

1. XTRMNT - RedAce
2. Apparition - Superbomb
3. Atrophy - MrMathews
4. Not Hexy Jr - NickDustyOwl
5. Mean Green - Wen
6. Be More Chill - Primeval
7. Jeremy - IdiotBrickDoctor
8. Agarpain - MrBK
9. Volcano - 8Bean
10. Kasho Tsuihou - BSRaven
11. Cryo - SR
12. eYe - KidDelta
13. Stealth Mouse - NH
14. Herb Menace - Hard Bot
15. Revenannt - Hoppin
16. Mormon Boy - Plerco
17. Neutron Solaris - NeonCalypso
18. Limited Piersect - Probably Rob
19. Spinner From The West Europe - Dreamcast
20. AC/DC - Pokebro
21. Dauntless - Sevalent
22. Shrek - Geese
23. TheRoboteer - Bodkin
24. Badger - Pure Britannia

Received
Accepted
Denied/Problems (You will be notified)
(#) Seeded (Automatically Entered/Reserved)
(!) Must be changed to the current ruleset before re-entering (For seeded builders and/or bots only)

[Badger]

IMO CW is a boring weightclass. HW would be cool, or 1000kg if you want to be different. The burst restrictions are ridiculously strict, IMO you don't need to restrict them at all (a common sense approach suffices I think). Good luck doing anything with a single beta. While we're talking about limiting stuff, I think VS and possibly rings should have lower weapon limits than everything else, to promote other bot types.

[09090901]

I'm not really fan of the weapon limits, mainly the beater limits seem a little off

personally I would just do something like

2 large teeth (typhoons, ripping, large nightmares etc)
4 small teeth (typhoons cutting teeth, nightmares)
6 large/medium beaters
8 small beaters/matildas

(this is mainly with vs in mind and the assumption that you have the colored beaters/buff)

edit nvm were going 4/6. ok well uhh large/med beaters could probably be buffed to 8 or 10 since they're weaker 1:1 with small typhoons

it isn't going to be perfectly balanced, but I think we all know that balance isn't a 100% thing in ra2

[RedAce]

IMO CW is a boring weightclass. HW would be cool, or 1000kg if you want to be different. The burst restrictions are ridiculously strict, IMO you don't need to restrict them at all (a common sense approach suffices I think). Good luck doing anything with a single beta. While we're talking about limiting stuff, I think VS and possibly rings should have lower weapon limits than everything else, to promote other bot types.

Deathmatch has been CW since the first one, and I get your point.  HW's are pretty fun, but it wouldn't feel right to abandon the roots of the tournament series really.  Also I'm just going mostly after OW rulesets on the bursts thing.  I might be more lenient on the bursts, but I don't want to try and resurrect the Paladin meme.

Also something like Geese's weapon list might be better suited for a tournament like this.  I will update to such once I get home.
 

[8bean]

Overvolted Battery Pack by Clickbeetle

Are these just batt reskins or is this the overvolting code that click made?

[RedAce]

Overvolted Battery Pack by Clickbeetle

Are these just batt reskins or is this the overvolting code that click made?

Possibly both, depending on how the overvolt thing actually goes.  I'm more than likely going to test it more.

Edit: Changed up the list for the main tournament.  Hopefully it's slightly more balanced, but I don't want to remove it either.  Also I'm considering removing the LW tournament since I'm too afraid not enough people are gonna bother in the end with that.  I'm just feeling all kinds of uncertainty for this at the moment.

[Badger]

Just cause Orc uses it doesn't mean the rule isn't dumb. I'm flattered that people still have Paladin PTSD, but the meta has moved on and gutripper VS would dump on it.

I might actually make something for this, we'll see. Looking forward to it!

[kix]

Seeing horis having 4 Large typhoons makes me sad

[TheOrcCorp]

Just cause Orc uses it doesn't mean the rule isn't dumb. I'm flattered that people still have Paladin PTSD, but the meta has moved on and gutripper VS would dump on it.

I might actually make something for this, we'll see. Looking forward to it!

Sure there are some rules in OW that need changing for next time but the burst rule has been in since OW2 and I've not really heard objections about it. That being said, while I am honoured some people like to copy some of my rules, make sure you're doing it for the right reasons and not just to copy for the sake of it. We need tournament diversity...which honestly Deathmatch does really well and I'm happy it's still CW.

[09090901]

the burst limits were fine and are what the majority of tournaments have used for the past year and a half. bajurs just being a boomer tbh

y'all really don't want something like big oops or gandora/slapshot with more power

[F1Krazy]

- Large Beater Bars: 5*
- Medium Beater Bars: 4*
- Small Beater Bars: 6*

This looks like a typo, should be 4-5-6. Limits look okay other than that, will have to check Tearaway as I believe it has 12 small beaters and the limit is 10.

I for one will definitely enter the LW tournament, though I don't know what with.

[TheRoboteer]

I think burst limits absolutely need to be a thing, but I do think the ones you had there were pretty weird. The 1 VDMA limit in particular was odd to me. A front hinge VDMA only has 120 firing power, where a long VDMA has 300, and this made no distinction between them and instead just limited them both to 1.

Same thing applies to the storm burst, which is straight up banned. It only has 250 firing power, where a 300 firing power burst would have been legal with those initial burst limits you had

[kix]

Honestly i feel like limiting bursts to a single bursts will cripple flippers a bit too much

[Hoppin]

Can't say I'm a big fan of the shift to reduced weapons/burst. I'd actually think the DM4 types went pretty well, despite a grand final of mainly verts (but thats usually ra2 regardless). I think the reduction of bursts has a crippling effect on flippers which people are always preaching about how they need a buff or w/e.

I think going with a flat power cap on bursts is a good shout. Kinda reflects a PSI limit in actually combat robotics.

As for the rest, I actually like the LW side event, think its pretty cute.

I'll be sure to either put 2 microvore discs in Veorra, along with entering Pulse and a LW

[09090901]

if he's actually going to be running the overvolting mod then I can kind of understand the lower burst/weapom caps

otherwise yeah a so glue burst seems overly strict, and the new teeth limits kind of screw over some of the older seeds iirc

[TheRoboteer]

if he's actually going to be running the overvolting mod then I can kind of understand the lower burst/weapom caps

It wasn't that the burst limits were lower that I found weird, it was the fact that no distinction was drawn between an extra short/ front hinge VDMA with 120 power, and a wide VDMA with 300 power.

[09090901]

if he's actually going to be running the overvolting mod then I can kind of understand the lower burst/weapom caps

It wasn't that the burst limits were lower that I found weird, it was the fact that no distinction was drawn between an extra short/ front hinge VDMA with 120 power, and a wide VDMA with 300 power.

either I'm retarded (which I am) and can't find it or he's removed the rulings on bursts

[TheRoboteer]

if he's actually going to be running the overvolting mod then I can kind of understand the lower burst/weapom caps

It wasn't that the burst limits were lower that I found weird, it was the fact that no distinction was drawn between an extra short/ front hinge VDMA with 120 power, and a wide VDMA with 300 power.

either I'm retarded (which I am) and can't find it or he's removed the rulings on bursts

Yeah he removed it.

Previously it said this

 

[09090901]

if he's actually going to be running the overvolting mod then I can kind of understand the lower burst/weapom caps

It wasn't that the burst limits were lower that I found weird, it was the fact that no distinction was drawn between an extra short/ front hinge VDMA with 120 power, and a wide VDMA with 300 power.

either I'm retarded (which I am) and can't find it or he's removed the rulings on bursts

Yeah he removed it.

Previously it said this

  [ Quoting of attachment images from other messages is not allowed ]

that was for the lw side event

i think all of us just skim read the rules and thought the lw typeset was for the cws

[RedAce]

Still tinkering with the balancing on bursts anyway, but still up for discussion.  At least I'm trying anyway.

At the end of the day, I'm still probably not going to open signups this until maybe like in a month or two, so I still got time to get a concrete way of doing this for the best possible medium.  I really want to make this fun here, and I don't want to feel unsure on how I hosted this at the end of the day.  Especially if the end result feels like it's on the bad train-wreck style way.