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Topics - 09090901
21
« on: July 21, 2020, 08:00:12 PM »
this is the future avalanche wanted It's time we truly push the meta forwards RW 2016 Arena - IRL meta, but you can be as competitive as you want. - Your bots still need proper support, and must still be realistic enough for a poorly ran tournament - 16 entrants max - Double elim - DSL 2.4 HW -3 min fights -Judges Decision will be based on Damage Aggression and Control -If a robot has all of its wheels removed then it will be considered knocked out -I will find some guy to do these matches over parsec with Weapon limits: - 4 large teeth (15-24kgs) ex: large typhoon, ripping teeth, large nightmare, etc) - 6 small teeth (7-14kgs) ex: small typhoons, cutting teeth, heavy DS teeth, etc - 10 small beaters, 8 Medium/large - 2 rep disks max (mechavore/minion) - Ant blades are banned - Max of 200kgs of weapons - Popups, jugglers, flail rams and any other bot type that should be illegal in irl are allowed, but they must follow the IRL style - No burst limits - Wammers are allowed twice the amount of teeth - HS can have 4 large teeth + 2 smalls - Flats are banned on everything besides hybrids, overhead saws, and bots that aren't competitive - Overkills are cool Winner gets AU btw signups open NOW  Bracket https://challonge.com/1dcixipgentrants: 1. bonerbot 2. 313 gangbanger 3. hitler youth fanboy 4. new hampshire juicer 5. evil toaster/pip flag 6. tdg 7. botbuster 8. islander 9. coaster 10. burgerking 11. Christina 12. OJ juicer 13. code 14. 8bean 15. forceofwill 16. hobo
23
« on: July 13, 2020, 04:52:01 PM »
The basics
the main two things that determine damage are:
- Piercing - based solely on velocity, greatly boosted by flails and burst motors
- Concussion - based on momentum, greatly boosted when in movement with your chassis (rammers, sns)
Damage is calculated using the combined speed and momentum of all weapons involved.
The DP formula:
In both 2.2 and Ironforge the DP formula roughly boils down to 2 concussion = 1 piercing. In layman's terms, concussion needs twice the value to deal equal damage to piercing. This is technically correct, however this is only in the case of burst motors, spinners and rammers are a different case, and it also ignores other multipliers such as flails.
How piercing and concussion actually match up:
Assuming both values are equal, piercing is in fact roughly twice as strong as concussion, but only when used on a burst motor. When used on a rammer or another bot that can use the weight of it's chassis in motion, concussion will end up being roughly twice as strong. Spinners however are a little bit more complicated as spinning mass and speed will vary from bot/meta. The best way that I can simplify it is that with unrealistically low spinning mass and high speed, piercing will be stronger than concussion. As mass starts to increase however, the lead starts to shrink, and even shifts to concussion at a certain point with enough mass.
Flails are another beast all together. I don't have 100% certainty on how they work, but from my experience they're roughly a x2 boost to piercing, while also reducing the amount of damage concussion deals on contact. As stated before, damage is done with the combined values, so flails will boost the damage for all piercing weapons involved
What this means for DP:
As said above, DP is only really accurate when dealing with burst motors (it's how click came up with the og formula). Because concussion needs twice the value to be considered equal to piercing under the formula, concussion will be nearly 4x times as strong as piercing on a bot that can use it's entire weight. On a spinner, things are once again more complicated. While it is true that piercing is technically stronger in theory @1:1, this was only with unrealistically low spinning weights. On any sort of realistic spinning setup, piercing does not have a x2 lead over concussion, and as a result concussion can be anywhere from 1.25x-2x times as strong on spinners after the DP formula.
Flails however are where piercing really shines. Even with concussion having twice the value in the DP formula, the boost from flails is still enough to give them the edge over concussion. This is the only reason piercing weapons had any use in 2.1 aside from popups, to be used on flails and also to counter flails. It's also why piercing weapons seem so poor in IF; there's just no real use of flails, and thus no real reason to counter with piercing weapons.
How it affects the metas:
In 2.1 you had somewhat of a triangle between all of the damage types. Concussion would beat piercing, not because it deals more component damage, but because it was balanced at 1.839c = 1p. In return, concussion lost to flail piercing, and flail piercing lost to static piercing as flails would boost piercing on both sides, and flails would usually result in less total weapon weight.
In IF, crushing teeth and beaters are almost universally considered the best weapon to use on spinners. Pure piercing and other mixed weapons are easily de-weaponed with relatively minimal damage dealt in return. As said above, the lack of flails almost completely removes the incentive to use piercing weapons (the only real viable flail design that isn't banned are TRFBD's, and they get rolled by wedgeless VS which are arguably the strongest bot type in IF) and also that piercing is slightly weaker in IF as well (2p=1c compared to 1.839p in 2.1)
Why not as heavily affected, IRL does suffer a tad from DP formula favoring concussion. This is mainly just in the case of the beater bars post colored patch, and also the typhoons to an extent.
Why DP doesn't work:
Plain and simple, piercing and concussion perform differently based on what type of bot they're on. Also, concussion takes the total mass of the objects being struck together into account, and as such, scales based on how heavy the bots are. Piercing has no such scaling as it is based purely on velocity. There's no way to accurately combine all of these attributes into a single stat.
None of the DP formulas also take frequency into account, which as we've learned, can behave as a straight damage multiplier in certain scenarios.
Why heavy weapons suck/need an aggressive efficiency curve:
This is best explained with an example. Say a 7kg razor with 1000hp and a 70kg hammer with 10000hp hit each other for 4k points. The 7kg razor technically only takes 1000 points of damage as it only has 1000hp, while the 70kg hammer takes the full 4k as it has enough HP to spare. After this, the 7kg razor still has another hit due to fracture, and any damage it takes above its fracture is wasted.
This is kind of an extreme, and not really realistic example, but you should get the point. This isn't really a thing in IRL where weapon count is fairly small, but in a meta like DSL-S/IF, this is theoretically giving weapons spam bots an extra 30+ extra fracture hits compared to something that uses large, heavy weapons like sledges.
i still have more to add but this should be a decent start.
*the DP formula used for balancing is actually 1.839/2P and not C, but it's easier to understand it as concussion weapons being 1.839x/2x greater
this has all been known for over 10 years btw
24
« on: July 12, 2020, 09:29:13 PM »
No fancy graphics for this month, sorry
DSL IRL RANKINGS:
1. Robo
2. HoboDrew
3. Bildschirm
4. Neon
5. F1
6. Superbomb
7. KidDelta
8. Plerco
Most Improved
1. Hobo Drew
2. Kid Delta
We're probably going to do a soft restart with this if people are still interested. More than likely with a different/larger council, and also possibly a different system.
25
« on: July 06, 2020, 06:29:45 AM »
same as last year. just vote now on your phones, and discuss somewhere
27
« on: June 23, 2020, 08:56:41 PM »
credits to hobo drew for this absolute GOAT compilation
28
« on: May 29, 2020, 04:59:40 AM »
 https://gametechmods.com/forums/downloads/?sa=view;down=533short, medium, and long. they should work fine from my limited testing, but no guarantees, and I probably won't fix them if there are any issues was going to wait till I had the piglets and other motors done, but to be honest that's probably not going to happen. it's just a waste of time at this point with how the game/community is headed
29
« on: May 23, 2020, 10:59:39 PM »
The IRL Build Style and its consequences have been a disaster for the RA2 community. They have greatly increased the toxicity of those of us who live in “advanced” discord servers, but they have destabilized the forums, have made building unfulfilling, have subjected human beings to indignities, have led to widespread psychological suffering (in OOTA to physical suffering as well) and have inflicted severe damage on the natural world. The continued development of the meta will worsen the situation. It will certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world, it will probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering, and it may lead to increased physical suffering even in “advanced” discord communities.
30
« on: May 14, 2020, 01:04:38 AM »
31
« on: April 28, 2020, 05:28:36 PM »
Legit question
Do people actually care about this place outside of filehosting/tutorials and nostalgia
32
« on: April 21, 2020, 05:25:13 PM »
can we show some respect to the pws champ himself
33
« on: March 29, 2020, 08:58:54 PM »
Orc has chosen step down from his position as a GTM Admin.
We thank him for his contributions to both the RA2 community and GTM
To everyone else: I want you to take a good look around and ask yourself where this community is going. Because I can tell you it's not headed in a good direction
34
« on: March 17, 2020, 03:22:59 PM »
Oh it’s 8 larg beaters in each side so 4 a side and 8 dsl bars on each side as well so again 4 a side
how many beaters are there in total?
35
« on: March 12, 2020, 06:40:31 PM »
here's the ideas people have talked about
-buff spin motors + possibly implement clicks overvolting for both bursts/spin motors. have motor balance be centered around using a single motor for weapons
-add belts to the majority of motors/beltless perms
-greatly increase HP across the board
-buff non-npc drive motors to not be terribly inefficient
-add some more generic shaped weapons (think beaters and typhoons)
- port over things from other mods (extended if drums, etc)
now some hot takes
- cut the six mag and dual perm and have the strongest motor be the perm 132 and maybe the 4 mag.
- balance weapons with a dp limit in mind, equal to the weightclasses (ex: hws get 800dp, cw gets 600, etc). said dp limit would only be used for said artificial limits, and wouldn't be an actual representation of a weapons stats. for instance small typhoons could have 200 each for a max of 4, and an axe could have 800 for a total of 1, but still deal more than the 4 smaller teeth
-resize extenders and panels to be based around increments of 15cm instead of 10cm
- standardize weapon stats/hitboxes. example: all small teeth would weigh 20kgs and have the same stats, the only difference would be cosmetic
36
« on: March 10, 2020, 01:59:50 PM »
stop spamming people's inboxes begging for bots
37
« on: March 09, 2020, 06:49:10 AM »
THIS IS A DRUM:  THIS IS A VS THAT USES DRUMS INSTEAD OF DISCS:  IF YOU'RE NOT SURE WHICH ONE YOUR BOT FALLS INTO, ASK YOURSELF THESE 3 QUESTIONS - IS IT FUNCTIONALY THE SAME BOT BOTH RIGHT SIDE UP AND INVERTED? - DOES IT RELY ON A WEDGE TO GET UNDER OTHER BOTS? - DOES IT NEED TO GET UNDER OTHER BOTS TO MAKE CONTACT WITH THE WEAPON? IF YOU ANSWERED YES, NO, AND NO, THEN CONGRATS, ITS A DRUM. THIS ISNT ****ING HARD, JUST USE SOME COMMON SENSE PLEASE LEARN THE FUKKIN DIFFERENCE AND YES, I KNOW NOBODY USES GTM ANYMORE. IDGAF AUGHHHH/OOOOOOF
39
« on: February 27, 2020, 05:08:18 AM »
Quick breakdown since I don't think there's an actual guide anywhere on how they work. Basics: - Normal determine what part of of a component deals damage - Normals are set in the txt and not the .gmf - Components without normals will deal damage in all directions How they work:  Normals are determined by 3 numbers in the .txt that represent coordinates on the X, Y, and Z axis. These coordinates lead to a point that determines which side of a component will deal damage based upon which way it deviate from the origin. As for true/false, true means that a component will also deal damage in the opposite direction across the same axis, and as you can probably guess, false is the opposite and it means that components will only deal damage in one direction. Going back to the icepick, -1 0 0 means that it will deal damage facing towards the -X axis, and false means that it will only deal damage in one direction, and not on the positive X axis. as for the double-sided icepick:  While the X value is now on the positive axis, having it set to true will cause it to deal damage in both directions. Other: - Normals can also bet set at a 45 degree angle. For instance: normal = false 0.7071 0.7071 0 would be a point at a 45 degree originating from the center. Do note that your values have to be +/-0.7071 for things such as this - Weapons can have normals set in more than one direction by adding another set of XYZ coords. The typhoon tooth for instance has a value of: normal = false -1 0 0 -0.7071 0.7071 0 meaning that it will deal damage facing towards the negative x axis, and also the up to the left at a 45% angle with the second point (pretty sure this is what click meant by 1.5 normals) - If you want to create a disk type weapon such as a saw, a value of normal = true 1 0 0 0 0 1 should be used true 1 0 0 means that it will deal damage across both sides of the Z axis, and true 0 0 1 means that it will also deal damage across the positive and negative Z axis. While at a glance it may seem that it would only deal damage in an + shape, there's a fairly decent margin of error in how the game calculates the damaging zone. A third value of 0 1 0 can also be added if one wishes to make the top/bottom deal damage (although at this point there's no reason to for a weapon to have normals) Hopefully this was fairly easy to understand, even if RA2 modding is fairly dead and the average builder cant even reskin a panel 
40
« on: February 15, 2020, 04:10:37 AM »
protip: torque is what determines drive power, max speed makes no difference in regards to drive speed, and the separate torque stat has minimal affect despite the high values
Nightmare Etek (70kgs)
HP:5000
Max Speed:300
Toruqe:30
Diablo Motor (11kgs)
HP:9000
Max Speed:70
Toruqe:50
harry pottre motour (30kgs)
HP:25000
Max Speed:116
Toruqe:32
Flat Motor (11kgs)
HP:18000
Max Speed:175
Toruqe:20
Slow Flat (11kgs)
HP:18000
Max Speed:60
Toruqe:12
MOE Motor (160kgs)
HP:400
Max Speed:300
Torque:34
wheel Motor (20kgs)
HP:9000
Max Speed:130
Torque:22
TDD Saw Motor (15kgs)
HP:2500
Max Speed:250
Torque:5
torque(seperate stat) = 10000
Ruiner Motor (30kgs)
HP:2045
Max Speed:200
Torque:16
razer motor(20kgs)
HP:8000
Max Speed:32
Torque:32
buster motor(11kgs)
HP:18000
Max Speed:80
Torque:42
Overkill Motor (16kgs)
HP:400
Max Speed:400
Torque:10000000000
torque(seperate stat) = 999999
tdlr: flats are still the best, the moe could probably be legalized, and possibly the harry pottre motour, wheel Motor, and TDD Saw Motor if we consider the flat to be acceptable (which it isn't, but gl getting the zoomers off of their addiction)
diablo would be the new best drive motor tho if legalized
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