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Messages - TheRoboteer
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681
« on: July 05, 2018, 02:06:19 PM »
The only reason I didn't vote for Leviathan was the black text on a black background in the splash 
682
« on: July 04, 2018, 01:37:40 PM »
The areas around the wedgelets, weapon supports and in front of the wheels look pretty messy to me. The odd clusters of grey and black just don't look good IMO. They'd be better all 1 colour, or with the grey bits having a clear theme to them rather than just kinda being dotted around almost at random.
683
« on: July 04, 2018, 12:51:58 PM »
How are Apotheosis' beaters out of alignment in the splash image? They're literally both attached to the same thing
684
« on: July 04, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »
I'd be behind the whole "building IRL solely for spectacle" idea if building IRL wasn't such a ballache. Why would I bother building something superfluous that takes 10x longer to build and is, at best, maybe a quarter as effective, when I could just build something in less than an hour that would keep the crap out of any IRL bot I know of? This is why I support DSL-S over DSL-IRL; it's the fundamental bedrock which all the DSL-IRL bots are built off of.
It's the main problem I've had since starting Complete Edition, really, and the only way to solve it in a way that makes both parties happy is to make two separate mods. Balance all the motors and weapons to DSL-S standards, people'll complain the motors aren't realistic enough. Balance all the motors and weapons to IRL standards and the DSL-S meta pretty much becomes Ironforge. It's a no-win situation, because I simply don't have the time required for the upkeep of two separate branches of DSL. So, if I had to pick one...
DSL-IRL will adapt and change to get the most out of the DSL-S toolbox. Just look at how DSL-IRL changed from 2.1 to 2.2, and then from 2.2 to using DSC's multicoloured components. It's a symbiotic, constantly evolving process. For DSL-IRL to keep evolving, DSL-S needs to be placed first because it's what everyone's using to build DSL-IRL. There is no DSL-IRL pack out there - the last one that attempted that was Avalanche's attempt, and we all know how spectacularly that went down. Hate to break it to you, DSL-IRL fans; you're in our yard, and if I needed a better example of this, TheRoboteer summed it up best-
This is also why I think the current effort to try to objectively balance components for an inherently subjective meta is, to be frank, dumb. People talk about nerfing the mech disc or typhoon teeth, or buffing bursts, but that doesn't work because as you say, everyone has a different definition of IRL.
This is a fine example of the confusion people find themselves in when trying to balance DSL-S to DSL-IRL standards. In DSL-S, there is no debate that Typhoon Teeth, Mechavore Discs and Minion Discs are overpowered, but in DSL-IRL it's allowed to slide, granted that the builder doesn't exploit it's OP-ness. So, let's theorize, and say that DSL 2.3 nerfs those 3 criminal weapons. What'd happen then to DSL-IRL? Answer: Actually very little. You might see an uptick in those weapons being used, but overall, the meta would shift very little. Even if it was a great shift, DSL-IRL would still stay DSL-IRL. You cannot break that - where there's a will, there's a way. People've been doing replicas since the Stock days, for god's sakes. If people can manage in as limited a toolbox as that, I can guarantee you that balancing 3 components isn't going to ruin everything for you.
TL;DR - Play the game however you want. Just keep in mind what allowed you to play the game the way you do in the first place.
This is all just patently untrue. DSL-IRL is a TOTALLY different animal to DSL-S and if you think you can balance them both at the same time you're incredibly naive. Hell, 2.2 was an attempt to do just that and look how that turned out. DSL-S isn't the bedrock that DSL-IRL is based off at all. If that was the case DSL-IRL designs would all just be the kind of thing you see in DSL-S except with supports for weapons and other minor changes to make them fit within the IRL ruleset. That's not the case though as literally anyone who ACTUALLY PLAYS IRL could tell you. I'm not trying to claim that rebalancing those 3 components is going to destroy IRL as a meta or anything, and if you think that I was then I feel that you've missed the point of my argument entirely. What I was saying is that, as you say yourself, rebalancing those components will change very little. Whatever the next most OP component after those 3 is will simply step up to take the place that Typhoon teeth or Mech discs currently occupy. That's power creep, which I'd advise you look up as it's a very real problem when people try to balance stuff. What I was also saying is that the only surefire way to make everyone happy in terms of balance is for tournament hosts to decide for themselves what they think is OP and what isn't, and for people entering those tournaments to suck it up and build to the ruleset that the host outlines. As just about everyone in this thread has mentioned, IRL is an INHERENTLY subjective meta, and trying to balance it, and an objective meta like DSL-S at the same time is incredibly misguided.
685
« on: July 03, 2018, 06:12:36 PM »
686
« on: July 03, 2018, 11:36:13 AM »
You're absolutely right that IRL bots suck at fighting compared to DSL-S bots (or at least they should if people are actually sticking to what IRL is all about: making sh** that looks cool), but to say they can't provide entertaining fights is wrong IMO.
When they're fighting other IRL bots they can provide some great fights. I think a good analogy would be something like IRL is your regular run of the mill car while DSL-S bots are like a Formula 1 car. If you put them against each other the racing/fighting will be sh** because the DSL-S bot/F1 car completely outclasses the other, but as long as you only fight/race against cars/bots of the same type they both provide great spectacles.
I don't really see how subjectivity is an issue as long as folks are aware that it is inherently subjective. Every time I enter an IRL tournament I accept the possibility that my bot is gonna be rejected, or that the host's requirements for what is IRL are more lax than mine and that my bot will be wrecked. As long as all bots are held to the same standards then I really don't see the issue there.
This is also why I think the current effort to try to objectively balance components for an inherently subjective meta is, to be frank, dumb. People talk about nerfing the mech disc or typhoon teeth, or buffing bursts, but that doesn't work because as you say, everyone has a different definition of IRL. A far better solution is for hosts to just set rules based on what they think is IRL and for them to ACTUALLY ENFORCE those rules and reject sh** that doesn't follow them (which far too many hosts seem to be sh** scared of doing ATM) and for people entering said tournaments to simply build to the rules of said tournament.
I absolutely agree with what (I think) is the crux of this post though which is (I think) that if you're concerned about winning and you want to build efficient sh** you should be playing DSL-S rather than trying to crowbar 16 typhoon teeth onto an IRL bot and bank on hosts' refusal to reject sh** to win tournaments.
687
« on: July 01, 2018, 07:40:40 PM »
Flatmotor should stay CB2. There's no way a motor that small would be able to chuck out the horsepower it offers.
While I agree that the flat should be CB2 (and I'd even go further personally in that I think tournament hosts should stop accepting bots that use it) for the sake of balance, brushless motors exist IRL and kick out buttloads of power at small sizes and low weights.
688
« on: July 01, 2018, 06:21:41 PM »
Hot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerf
Is it the large ones, small ones, or both?
Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?
If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.
The real issues with them are that they're pretty easy to spam even without sacrificing in other areas, plus they have a pretty nice collision model, and a decent looking, versatile appearance which can fit with many designs, while most of the alternatives such as the DSL teeth look kinda ugly in many applications, or don't have as good of a collision mesh. As a result of all of that you end up seeing bots with like 15+ typhoon teeth and rarely do you see bots, especially effective ones, with anything else.
Sooo... it's more that people just prefer them for aesthetic reasons and ease of placement? That doesn't sound like a nerf is the answer.
Do you have any specific examples of alternatives with "bad" collision mesh? Would "fixing" these help?
Not just that, but that's an additional issue on top of the balancing problems that they also have.
689
« on: July 01, 2018, 05:31:44 PM »
If was re-designing DSL from scratch, I would make all the motors slightly bigger to force less compact designs.
Hmm. Just out of interest why don't you want people making compact designs? I know a fair few people ATM wish most of the motors were actually SMALLER from conversations that have been going on in the discord lately. I'm not in that camp personally but I think I'm in the minority in that area, and I'm interested to hear your take on it.
690
« on: July 01, 2018, 05:03:47 PM »
Hot take: Typhoon teeth are a bigger problem then mechavore disks (at least at HW level) and should be first in line to get a nerf
Is it the large ones, small ones, or both?
Also the Typhoon teeth have almost the exact same stats as the DSL teeth. Are those overpowered too?
If so, I suspect the problem lies in the x2 stat multiplier for components with one-dimensional normals. The teeth actually have 1.5-D normals and this may make a bigger difference than I thought.
The real issues with them are that they're pretty easy to spam even without sacrificing in other areas, plus they have a pretty nice collision model, and a decent looking, versatile appearance which can fit with many designs, while most of the alternatives such as the DSL teeth look kinda ugly in many applications, or don't have as good of a collision mesh. As a result of all of that you end up seeing bots with like 15+ typhoon teeth and rarely do you see bots, especially effective ones, with anything else.
691
« on: June 30, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »
I'm off in Manchester
Best city
692
« on: June 30, 2018, 06:42:01 AM »
All 3 of these look sweet. The new Deadgnaws looks really good and polished and I look forward to seeing it fight. Tusk is super cute too. Really is amazing how well you can get the likeness of these creatures you build down while still having it be a functional bot, Orc.
Pummelwhack is sweet too, though I do have a bit of advice for this one. With the ~30KG you have left I think I'd try to fill some of those gaps in top a bit. Will provide some additional protection to the internals as well as make it look a bit more polished I think. Other than that looks great!
693
« on: June 30, 2018, 06:18:21 AM »
Actually coming 2nd with a subpar sh**post.
Howd no one guess me. Like the splash is me 101
I guessed it was you from the font but I didn't actually post it since that would require actually contributing something to a BOTM thread
694
« on: June 29, 2018, 12:11:37 PM »
I think it looks cool man, I think a disc would suit the shape better than a bar but that might just be personal opinion
Thanks! I went for a bar because I felt that if I went to a disc it would feel like too much of a clone of S5 Wild Thing for me.
695
« on: June 28, 2018, 08:02:27 PM »
Aaaaand here's another. This one's my SHW for the next Orc's Wars I think and my feelings about it are very much mixed. The name I think is a nice descriptor of the bot itself  . My goal with this one was to do something that wasn't a vert or a flipper since most of the rest of my lineup is one of those, so this is what I came up with. I was also insistent on having a dual perm for the weapon motor once I'd decided on an HS, so I went for an S5 wild thing style design. Drive is dual NPC fasts but the tyres have ridiculous grip so it's actually not that slow, and the weapon is powered by a dual perm as mentioned. Srimech is a medium VDMA and the armour is pretty ridiculous with the sides of the wedge having 2 layers of steel plates, plus steel angle corners on top of that to deflect other HSes. How it'll perform is yet to be seen.
696
« on: June 28, 2018, 12:13:15 PM »
The small front wheels and the wedge ends overlapping the wedge itself looks a bit weird.
Cleaned it up a tad, though I've kept the front wheels because I think it would look really generic without them
697
« on: June 28, 2018, 11:28:21 AM »
Another one. This was originally supposed to be an SHW but in a pretty new problem for me I just wasn't able to get it up to weight so it came out as a slightly underweight HW instead. 4WD flipper which I'm pretty happy with looks wise. Drive is 2 TWMR2s and 2 Astros so it's pretty zippy, and weapon power is 2 medium VDMAs. Weight is 749.2KG overall
698
« on: June 26, 2018, 07:48:38 AM »
And here is a CW version of it for the OWO CW division. Very happy with how it looks actually. Dropped to 4WD slimbodies from 6WD, and down to very small VDMAs from mediums but other than that it's largely the same. Battery life may well be an issue on this version though as it only has one of the big tall black batts for power. 599.6KG
699
« on: June 25, 2018, 06:55:36 AM »
It's so simple but my god, I love it! 
Thanks man! Was originally intended to be my CW entry for OWO but that didn't pan out. Will have to come up with something else for that Niiice, I like the use of that plow, Its like killertron and behemoth had a child.
The plough was basically the main driving force for making this bot so I'm glad it came out okay that plow is just adorable I love it, it's also nice to see you do MW builds too, I think I preferred it with the white sides but that's just me
The sides on the first version weren't actually white, that was just the light bouncing off due to the angle of the first screenshot. Thanks though!
700
« on: June 25, 2018, 05:25:35 AM »
Here's a new one. This was supposed to be a CW but it rapidly gained weight and so in the end I actually had trouble getting it into the HW limit let alone the CW one (It weighs 798.9KG). Drive is provided by 6 slimbodies, while the front snowploughs act as a flipper, powered by 2 medium VDMA R/Ps. Construction is mostly aluminium, save for the polycarb panels on the top and the rear wedge which is steel.
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