Author Topic: GTM Discord - The issue.  (Read 3181 times)

Offline Hoppin

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GTM Discord - The issue.
« on: May 24, 2018, 04:43:21 AM »
I think I need to make a statement on the current attitude that some members have within the discord. It's a matter of being aggressive to new users and general attitudes which I believe are left by the old discord.

A mob mentality in terms of baiting users, a often times up right mocking them is frequently used on the discord when it comes to new users that don't necessarily agree with the opinions generally viewed by the server or general conflict between attitudes of users. Not only this, it's that I feel the 'no rules' vibe of the previous discord has allowed members to blur the line between what isn't and what is ok. From this, other users within a similar mindset will then proceed to egg on one or both parties, creating more conflict between them, it creates a cycle of bullying which effects new users, and those who look to have new members join. This creates a community on that discord that becomes rather self-destructive. It's highly disappointing for members that wish to expand the community.

I understand that GTM isn't the super nice community, in which everyone's friendly to each other, sunshine and rainbows or whatever. But it's coming to a point in which the user base's attitude needs to change. This general poking the bear attitude to bait people is down right stupid.

I'm just straight up tired with some consistent actions taken by some members of the community on discord. GTM isn't toxic community, but the discord, in it's current state, is.
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Offline Badger

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 05:13:47 AM »
The discord isn't the place for new users and it never has been. The issue with this is that so much of the community activity has moved away from the forum and onto the discord, devaluing the forum. Without the discord, GTM seems a bit dead outside of tournament SBV threads. I've seen a nice uptick in showcase posts lately but the trend is that showcases, especially those outside of IRL building, are being basically abandoned. I think showcase activity is important for bringing new members into the community and encouraging them to build and improve.

Part of the reason that the discord gained popularity is because the playground was removed and the site censored (limitations that the discord at the time didn't have). Doing the same to the discord will just kill the discord.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline Thyrus

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 05:47:47 AM »
So you say new members should stay away from the discord but instead stay on the forum that doesn't offer them anything?
I don't pay too much attention to the gtm discord so I don't know what exactly is going on there. I can see some new members acting really newbish and I sometimes sit in front of the screen and shake my head but I try to stay silent most of the time and keep a neutral point of view towards em. It can be annoying and it's easy to make fun of them but if the forum is kinda dead why don't we/you try to take the new members and properly introduce them to the forum and help them out?
Some of them may only stay for a few days or weeks but there can always be one guy that has the potential to turn everything around to create the next big thing.

Offline Badger

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 05:51:09 AM »
So you say new members should stay away from the discord but instead stay on the forum that doesn't offer them anything?
I don't pay too much attention to the gtm discord so I don't know what exactly is going on there. I can see some new members acting really newbish and I sometimes sit in front of the screen and shake my head but I try to stay silent most of the time and keep a neutral point of view towards em. It can be annoying and it's easy to make fun of them but if the forum is kinda dead why don't we/you try to take the new members and properly introduce them to the forum and help them out?
Some of them may only stay for a few days or weeks but there can always be one guy that has the potential to turn everything around to create the next big thing.
I'm saying that the issue is the movement of content away from the forum and onto the discord (for a plethora of reasons, this being one), not that the discord isn't a hugbox.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline 09090901

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 06:32:47 AM »
Whether you guys agree with it or not, the discord is just not some off-topic ground like some of you guys think, it's very much a part of GTM at this point. For new and more active users it is 100% the more preferable venue being both more active and more interconnected with other discord communites. Your actions and relations on the discord very much carry over to the main GTM forum as well as those outside it.

If some of you guys didn't know yet, GTM is a hated community. The whole "gtm is toxic" meme isn't made up, we are by far the most disliked community in the robot combat/ra2 scene. And before any of you asshats say "lol who cares what they think" just keep in my mind people aren't jumping into GTM completely fresh off the bus. Literally every member we've had join in the past year to year and a half has been part of another robot combat related community. People both in and outside of our community take their opinion on us from what they experience both on the forum and the discord, and  whether we want to say it's representative of us or not, 90% of the time it's not a positive experience in regards to the discord. People know about GTM and RA2, it's not that we're some obscure site that kids can't find or don't know about, they just don't want to join when they hear how horrible our userbase is (or when they do join our userbase scares them away)

You guys don't have to agree with us any of this, I don't care. But we've tried our best these past months to improve our relations and reputation both with the wider robot combat scene and also with each other. Some of you guys aren't doing anything but sh**ting all over what we've made progress on, and at this point we're done with trying to change this communities attitude. If you aren't willing to change the way you act then I don't see any other solution besides permabanning you from both the discord and forums. 

Also fyi for a few of you, the majority of users on this site aren't edgy lolmeme sh**posters. It only seems that way when you literally force them out to other communities with constant garbage posting and '''banter'''. I realized that far too late on the first discord server, and I now realize I picked the wrong side in the drama.
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Offline cephalopod

Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 06:39:32 AM »
Geese is bang on and we need to take action now, as someone who often finds themselves as an onlooker of GTM rather than an active participant these days.
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Offline Meganerdbomb

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 07:15:28 AM »
Just delete the Discord and make GTM forum-only tbh. Member created discords can exist, but unofficially.
Also who cares what the "community" thinks of GTM? We're a video game forum dedicated to RA2, not a robot combat community. How many total conversion mods have other communities released? 90% of the people that come here from other communities contribute absolutely nothing to the forum anyway. And, yes GTM is a FORUM, not a discord community, and it should stay that way. The discord is killing activity on the forum imho.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 09:15:15 AM by Meganerdbomb »
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline Dreamcast

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 10:16:54 AM »
What is Robot Arena 2 dedicated too? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to be a robot combat video game. In the past, you could have argued that "A vehicle-fighting game separate from anything else." But that was back when people played unrealistically, and robot combat was at its nadir, but these things are not true today. Most newbies over the past few years have been building realistically, why? An important reason is that most newbies have been robot combat fans and want to build in real life. Robot combat people are involved in communities related to robot combat. Robot combat people have loyalty to these communities and sometimes swear by the community consensus.

There are few Robot Arena 2 fans who play our game for the sake of the game. The amount is few due to the game no longer being alive. The game is not on store shelves, advertised, or officially supported. The only way a fan community grows for a dead game is by word of mouth, and the word on the street at best says GTM is meat grinder full of bad behavior that will spit you out like you're trash.

Offline Meganerdbomb

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 12:14:47 PM »
What is Robot Arena 2 dedicated too? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to be a robot combat video game. In the past, you could have argued that "A vehicle-fighting game separate from anything else." But that was back when people played unrealistically, and robot combat was at its nadir, but these things are not true today. Most newbies over the past few years have been building realistically, why? An important reason is that most newbies have been robot combat fans and want to build in real life. Robot combat people are involved in communities related to robot combat. Robot combat people have loyalty to these communities and sometimes swear by the community consensus.

There are few Robot Arena 2 fans who play our game for the sake of the game. The amount is few due to the game no longer being alive. The game is not on store shelves, advertised, or officially supported. The only way a fan community grows for a dead game is by word of mouth, and the word on the street at best says GTM is meat grinder full of bad behavior that will spit you out like you're trash.
WeLl, yes, there's obviously a huge overlap between RA2 fans and the Robot Combat community as a whole, but we are still ultimately an RA2 community. Also, it seems like all the bad reputation is coming from activity on the Discord, hence why it's time to delete the Discord.
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline FightingBotInformal

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 12:21:08 PM »
What is Robot Arena 2 dedicated too? Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to be a robot combat video game. In the past, you could have argued that "A vehicle-fighting game separate from anything else." But that was back when people played unrealistically, and robot combat was at its nadir, but these things are not true today. Most newbies over the past few years have been building realistically, why? An important reason is that most newbies have been robot combat fans and want to build in real life. Robot combat people are involved in communities related to robot combat. Robot combat people have loyalty to these communities and sometimes swear by the community consensus.

There are few Robot Arena 2 fans who play our game for the sake of the game. The amount is few due to the game no longer being alive. The game is not on store shelves, advertised, or officially supported. The only way a fan community grows for a dead game is by word of mouth, and the word on the street at best says GTM is meat grinder full of bad behavior that will spit you out like you're trash.
WeLl, yes, there's obviously a huge overlap between RA2 fans and the Robot Combat community as a whole, but we are still ultimately an RA2 community. Also, it seems like all the bad reputation is coming from activity on the Discord, hence why it's time to delete the Discord.
After the Discord would be deleted, wouldn't that basically mean all the "toxicity" would flow from the Discord to the main forum?
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Offline Meganerdbomb

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 12:22:40 PM »
Maybe, but the forum has been pretty firmly controlled for a while now, and if it did, at least it means people are actually using the forum
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline Hoppin

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 12:25:26 PM »
Whether you guys agree with it or not, the discord is just not some off-topic ground like some of you guys think, it's very much a part of GTM at this point. For new and more active users it is 100% the more preferable venue being both more active and more interconnected with other discord communites. Your actions and relations on the discord very much carry over to the main GTM forum as well as those outside it.

If some of you guys didn't know yet, GTM is a hated community. The whole "gtm is toxic" meme isn't made up, we are by far the most disliked community in the robot combat/ra2 scene. And before any of you asshats say "lol who cares what they think" just keep in my mind people aren't jumping into GTM completely fresh off the bus. Literally every member we've had join in the past year to year and a half has been part of another robot combat related community. People both in and outside of our community take their opinion on us from what they experience both on the forum and the discord, and  whether we want to say it's representative of us or not, 90% of the time it's not a positive experience in regards to the discord. People know about GTM and RA2, it's not that we're some obscure site that kids can't find or don't know about, they just don't want to join when they hear how horrible our userbase is (or when they do join our userbase scares them away)

You guys don't have to agree with us any of this, I don't care. But we've tried our best these past months to improve our relations and reputation both with the wider robot combat scene and also with each other. Some of you guys aren't doing anything but sh**ting all over what we've made progress on, and at this point we're done with trying to change this communities attitude. If you aren't willing to change the way you act then I don't see any other solution besides permabanning you from both the discord and forums. 

Also fyi for a few of you, the majority of users on this site aren't edgy lolmeme sh**posters. It only seems that way when you literally force them out to other communities with constant garbage posting and '''banter'''. I realized that far too late on the first discord server, and I now realize I picked the wrong side in the drama.

Geese has really just explained it better than I ever could.

To respond to badger in regards to that discord isn't for the new members as a first visit, maybe like 6 months ago, but now given discords huge impact on communities since it's release it's starting to become the primary way to join other communities and it's not something we should simply disregard as an add on to the forum.

Just delete the Discord and make GTM forum-only tbh. Member created discords can exist, but unofficially.
Also who cares what the "community" thinks of GTM? We're a video game forum dedicated to RA2, not a robot combat community. How many total conversion mods have other communities released? 90% of the people that come here from other communities contribute absolutely nothing to the forum anyway. And, yes GTM is a FORUM, not a discord community, and it should stay that way. The discord is killing activity on the forum imho.

I simply don't understand why you think the two cannot co-exist. GTM is now far larger than just supporting Ra2 content, whilst it may be primarily focused on it. Staff are looking for every way to appeal to more and more people outside it. This isn't 2011 anymore dude.
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Offline Meganerdbomb

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2018, 12:36:07 PM »
Right now Discord is absolutely killing activity on the forum and apparently killing our reputation as well. It's literally the cancer killing GTM, and it's time for it to go. It may not be 2011, but in 2011, GTM was actually good, so it's not a bad thing to go off of.
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline Badger

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2018, 01:00:48 PM »
MNB is hitting the nail on the head IMO
GTM is now far larger than just supporting Ra2 content, whilst it may be primarily focused on it. Staff are looking for every way to appeal to more and more people outside it. This isn't 2011 anymore dude.
This is plain wrong. Almost all the activity on GTM (the forum) is tournament threads and the occasional camwhore thread post.
GTM has it's niche and trying to expand to become a general-purpose robotics forum, when that role has already been filled by multiple other sites/communities, will hurt the site more than help.

If you do want to expand GTM, the first point of contact is the forum. The only way to get to the discord without a direct invite is through the forum. If you really do want to expand GTM, you have to expand the forum userbase, and nobody's going to want to use a dead forum that's mostly used for archiving tournament signups/SBVs. Discord activity has taken all/nearly all the non-tournament content away from the forum.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline jdg37

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2018, 01:04:54 PM »
I’m not the most qualified to make this argument given that I’ve navigated to a less-active/Discord only position due to IRL busyness, but GTM is the heart of the community, and can exist without the convenience of the Discord.  The Discord however would lose a lot without GTM itself as the core resource.

And like badger said, if we want the community to grow, we have to have an open place for showcasing why it’s worth joining.  A members only Discord isn’t that place.

Offline Dark-Al

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2018, 01:14:30 PM »
Personally with the current issues about the behavior on the discord, I very much in agreement to many of the issues that have been already mentioned on this current board. During the times of the old discord, I was disgusted with the treatment I got from a few users and even got as far as me getting upset when I was mocked at by some of my actions like "I don't know the concept of wheels" when that saying was put into a quite a hurtful way which almost caused me to leave the discord; and with the way I acted must differently to other users, caused some of my posts being mocked upon by many of the less mature members, that caused me to limit my posts in nothing more than fear of posting something that will cause me to be frowned upon. When most of  those issues was on back on the old discord and those users who caused these problems are either banned, left the site or matured, I still feel that the whole issue still lingers with the current discord with many new users joining the boards, in fear that whatever you post on the discord or the main site could be mocked and cause the user to leave the discord, though this issue isn't to the same extent as the old discord but I do not want the new discord to descend into the same problems with the last discord.

One last point, with the current memes being posted around like "gtm is toxic" or "join the real discord" just need to stop. In serious situations, posting those memes aren't going to help solve anything. We all know that the site and discord has a problem with toxicity, but that's the past, we need to look forward to the future and think of a solution to help solve the current toxicity problem and make the discord much more enjoy, easier place for newer members to get into. Joining the "real discord" isn't going to solve the problem since that discord channel is pretty much the playground reincarnated into a meme fest, just like what the old discord became with new users having a much tougher time trying to fit into a channel that mocks then for their posts or who they are.

Offline Hoppin

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2018, 01:46:25 PM »
MNB is hitting the nail on the head IMO
GTM is now far larger than just supporting Ra2 content, whilst it may be primarily focused on it. Staff are looking for every way to appeal to more and more people outside it. This isn't 2011 anymore dude.
This is plain wrong. Almost all the activity on GTM (the forum) is tournament threads and the occasional camwhore thread post.
GTM has it's niche and trying to expand to become a general-purpose robotics forum, when that role has already been filled by multiple other sites/communities, will hurt the site more than help.

If you do want to expand GTM, the first point of contact is the forum. The only way to get to the discord without a direct invite is through the forum. If you really do want to expand GTM, you have to expand the forum userbase, and nobody's going to want to use a dead forum that's mostly used for archiving tournament signups/SBVs. Discord activity has taken all/nearly all the non-tournament content away from the forum.

GTM does support non ra2 related content, sure it may not be the most popular by far, but it certainly has to potential to grow in activity.

In regards to the  your point about GTM being the main attraction, I certainly see your point, it's where people download Ra2 and from there they can find the public discord. But discord is more active due to there being a general place to chat with continuous, not possessing this one post at a time. It's at a much more easy of access in terms of interacting with other members. What gets posted onto the forums, also gets put onto the discord, it being linked with the forums.

Expanding into other activities certainly doesn't hurt the site at all. It helps bring in new members and can raise activity overall.

Reputation always is able to improve, hence why I decided to make this post. It's no reason to completely wipe the discord.
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Offline 09090901

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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2018, 01:51:35 PM »
People aren't just gonna start using the forums more without the discord, they're just going to be more active in other communities.
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Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2018, 02:29:59 PM »
Ok, so maybe I'm being a bit too "edgy".
Here's a more straightforward list of my points.

1. GTM is still THE premier RA2 community. Other major robot combat communities are focused on IRL robot combat or fantasy tournaments and stuff. Yes, the IRL community is the main thing keeping the game alive right now, but GTM is still the center for that game. It's the only niche we have.
2. GTM is primarily a forum, and if its only purposely is to host a link to a discord chat, that's a problem. I was on a forum before that got an IRC chat, and it killed the forum.
3. The Discord is full of sh**posting. That's not neccessary a bad thing, but it is right now because apparently the Discord is the face of the community. That's a problem.
4. The Discord should be a supplement to the forum, not a replacement. Otherwise, both will be dead within a year or so.
im just waiting for meganerdbomb to come along and kick things into gear.

Offline kill343gs

Re: GTM Discord - The issue.
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2018, 06:03:22 PM »
All this jargon that we're apparently attempting to become a real robotics forum first is BS.

The fact of the matter is, we need to be able to appeal to those people either way, because they are our ONLY target demographic. Essentially, the only way we get new people in here is through interest in real robot combat. And if you lot want to chase off every single person who pokes their head in and killing what we've worked our asses off to make happen here, then you are the problem. Stop pointing fingers at the discord as an entity, because it's actually done a lot to bring people of the community together between people like you's tirades.

It's 2018. The message board as a medium is dying. This is an undeniable fact. We had several large official skype chats, as well as two official discord servers. This is nothing new. People want to chat live, and they will find a way to do it one way or another. The best thing we can do now, until I get the energy / support / means to enact some other ideas myself and the staff have kicking around, is to continue to use the forum in a way that makes the best use of the format, as an archive and a landing point for people who are interested in the medium.

We will continue working to repair our relationships and unburden our reputation. I'll keep pushing by myself if I have to. And if you feel the need to be a sh** person for the sake of a few mental chuckles, then I'll wipe you from the history books.


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