Author Topic: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback  (Read 1444 times)

Offline TheOrcCorp

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BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« on: September 15, 2019, 12:21:52 PM »
Hello all,
             short and sweet: I want to know your thoughts on Bot Of The Month and Challenge Belt as they currently stand. Do you like the current formats they have? Do you think they need to be reverted back to older ways/different ideas?  What would make these events better or worse in your eyes?

This might seem like a small issue to start with but I figured I may as well lend you all my ears while I work on the bigger issues.

Cheers!
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Offline F1Krazy

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 12:26:01 PM »
BOTM is fine, apart from the increasing schedule slippage where whoever's in charge of making the threads keeps forgetting. I think there was one month that got missed entirely. So it just needs to be a little better organised.

As for Challenge Belt, I don't even know what the current format is. Is it still just a matter of putting yourself forward as a challenger and waiting your turn?
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Offline Nightraven Shade

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 12:26:18 PM »
If we are going to keep the challenge belt then make it so it's relevant and always active. Either via number one contender tournament or by having a forfeit system if it isn't defended after a set amount of time. It keeps it active and encourage people to actually challenge for it, perhaps have a leader board for it based on how many times have won/lost matches for it so there's some sort of objective or bragging rights.

I would also adjust the rules a bit in that the Challenger sets the rules (provided not to stupid) and the champion must agree to them of forfeit. This is to encourage some tactical play, ( if racing robo you would say no flippers for example, or hoppin say no spinners.) Same with picking the arena the Challenger can set one they feel most comfortable with. This puts the champion at a disadvantage but also means they have to prove there skill in holding the belt, hopefully will also encourage new builds and for people feel more confident in challenges as they can fit the rules for there build style.

Offline NickyDustyOwl

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 12:28:49 PM »
Challenge Belt is fine, people need to start challenging people alot more

terms of BOTM, nothing much, kinda boring now.
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Offline kix

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2019, 12:30:33 PM »
I think there was one month that got missed entirely. So it just needs to be a little better organised.
One month had one entry as sad as it is
This month there are already more enteries
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Offline KupaTec

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2019, 01:30:33 PM »
I would like to offer a newcomers perspective if I may?

I think BOTM is in a good place right now, if a little dead sometimes so I won't really comment on that. I was a little confused how to enter at first but that's just cos I didn't read things properly.

However the Challenge Belt is a completely incomprehensable thing to me. I don't understand how to put my name forward or what defines the titles and rules. I've read through the stickied threads a couple of times now to figure it out and the closest instruction for entering I've found is: "challenge the current champion" with no guidance as to how. Should i drop them a PM; make a post; or reply to the latest challenge? Again, I may have missed something but I'm still pretty confused about the whole thing, which is a shame cos I would love to take part one day. 

Offline Reier

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2019, 02:13:32 PM »
i really liked the FOTEPX method of taking bots from showcases since it rewarded you for showcasing which is GTM's lifeline. just takes more effort is all
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Offline TheOrcCorp

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2019, 02:56:43 PM »
Thanks everyone for the feedback so far! Really appreciate it!

BOTM:

So far, it seems people are okay with the format but I do feel recently that we haven't had many entries. Kix did mention this month we apparently have more which is good but perhaps we need something to encourage people to enter.
-FOTEPX's idea does seem good, perhaps we could do that with either the most liked robot from each showcase each month being entered into BOTM? (Perhaps a tad too gimmicky?)
-Perhaps a monthly award for the GTM users that win BOTM?

Challenge Belt:
Yeah, there is a "queue" for the belt atm but it gets forgotten about.
- As an idea, I think a bracket for each meta could be done in the first 2 weeks or so of the month to determine a contender, with the match against the current holder being held seperately.
- Challenge Belt award for the current holder?

These are just my ideas, please discuss this more! I feel this has been fairly productive so far!

Thanks!
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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2019, 02:59:20 PM »
i think once in a while, we could go back to the old BOTM and have a theme
as for the challenge belt, we could use a total revamp
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Offline Hoppin

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2019, 03:14:38 PM »
As for Challenge Belt, I don't even know what the current format is. Is it still just a matter of putting yourself forward as a challenger and waiting your turn?

Yes.

Personally, I think the current way is fine, but it just needs more over sight. Bild has been sat on that belt for ages. Also maybe implement some rule to prevent this kinda of inactivity

From personal experience, doing that mini tournament is pretty time consuming and just exhausting to do, especially at that rate
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Offline Nightraven Shade

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2019, 05:04:07 PM »

Personally, I think the current way is fine, but it just needs more over sight. Bild has been sat on that belt for ages. Also maybe implement some rule to prevent this kinda of inactivity

From personal experience, doing that mini tournament is pretty time consuming and just exhausting to do, especially at that rate

With the inactivity I would still say having the belt defended once a week is easy to so can strip the current holder if it's not defended after maybe missing 3 weeks (non consecutive) miss one week it's a warning miss a second week at any time during current reign a second warning miss a third week your stripped of title. This also means only those that can be active will hold the title.

If the mini tournament is to time consuming would a challenge leaderboard be an option?
You can challenge anyone ( each person a max of once per month officially) if they accept once result is added to board the winner gets points. Use this for all challenges you can effectively always have someone top of the leaderboard so they can jump the queue every three months.
It will get people.more active when testing or building bots rather then just waiting for a tournament, it allows to fix issues before submitting bots for tournament and it will give people a chance to learn hosting in a more relaxed manner.

Offline Reier

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2019, 11:09:47 PM »
i never paid much attention to the challenge belt before but I do like the idea. I was talking to 8bean a little bit ago and he had the great idea of making it a Parsec-based MP thing or at least a companion belt which uses parsec, which I think is fantastic. Not only would it give people an incentive to build and drive (and push the meta forward), but it would probably be big enough to reach all of the ra2 subgroups to some capacity if it was hosted here which would help the schism. PVP matches are so much better than AI matches, seriously. it's not even close. They're not even really harder to host. i really hope this is considered.
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Offline 8bean

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2019, 11:25:00 PM »
i never paid much attention to the challenge belt before but I do like the idea. I was talking to 8bean a little bit ago and he had the great idea of making it a Parsec-based MP thing or at least a companion belt which uses parsec, which I think is fantastic. Not only would it give people an incentive to build and drive (and push the meta forward), but it would probably be big enough to reach all of the ra2 subgroups to some capacity if it was hosted here which would help the schism. PVP matches are so much better than AI matches, seriously. it's not even close. They're not even really harder to host. i really hope this is considered.
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fr tho all the other metas have virtually become wastelands but something like this could help bring them back. Since it is parsec based it would make the playing field a little more even due to most highly optimized designs for competitive bots being highly focused on AI up until this point. This would make a good starting point for any players who haven't tried out one of the standard metas and would provide a different challenge to more experienced veterans.
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Offline kix

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2019, 11:46:53 PM »
Just gonna say I liked the FOTEPEX botm (makes people actually want to post on showcases)

And a Parsec companion belt for metas other than irl would be sweet
That would mean that other people would need to play other metas, and i remember some challenge belts where only one person entered because it was something something unrealistic
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Offline Reier

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2019, 01:43:25 AM »
Just gonna say I liked the FOTEPEX botm (makes people actually want to post on showcases)

And a Parsec companion belt for metas other than irl would be sweet
That would mean that other people would need to play other metas, and i remember some challenge belts where only one person entered because it was something something unrealistic

see, this shallow fatalistic attitude is the exact stuff we are trying to avoid. no one is forcing you to do anything. stop taking a dump on other people trying to improve the forum.
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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2019, 02:03:36 AM »
I agree with Plerco about the FOTPEX-style BOTM. The only issue is that trawling through peoples' showcases to get bots is a giant pain in the arse for whoever hosts it. Maybe we could add some kind of checkbox that people can tick when they post to their showcase that signifies that they want to put the bot in the running for BOTM, and then all submissions get sent to the BOTM account. Probably a pipe dream but hey it's a possibility.

I like the idea of a PvP challenge belt. That said I can see some flaws. For starters, connection plays a huge role in PvP fights, just because of the nature of parsec as a service, and it would kinda suck to have a better bot/better driver lose because of connection. I also think that the core issues of the challenge system need to be dealt with first. Currently there's basically no way of telling who the actual belt holders in each meta are. Maybe have a section on the front page with the current belt holders, and how long they've held it for? Would also incentivise people to enter the challenge belt to get their name up on the front page.
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Offline pokebro14

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2019, 03:37:48 AM »
Yeah fotpex BOTM was a good way of doing it.
Also that check book thing robo thought of is also a good idea.
For challenge belt I feel like it just wasn't organised enough. Maybe it's just me but I feel like having 1 person to host all the challenge belt matches would be a decent idea since there's consistency and it'd probably easier to keep track  idea.
As for regular challenge matches I have a weird idea.
So on the front page there will be a box titled 'looking for fights' or something along those lines. In that box there will be a small list of people who have requested to do a match. By hovering your mouse over it the ruleset for that match will appear if you like the rules you can tick a box which shows that person you are interested. To request a challenge match and appear in the box you would simply fill out a small form and send it. The person who made the request will then get notifications on people who are interested with the person being able to chose from the people who are interested to do it.
I dunno its weird but it's just an idea I liked since I think it helps the organisation of the challenge matches.
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Offline TheOrcCorp

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Re: BOTM and Challenge Belt Feedback
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 05:05:22 AM »
Lots of responses, thanks again everyone! I'm gonna try and summarise your points....

BOTM:
- Sometimes BOTM could have a themed month (Makes the event more varied which I think would be cool)
- People seem to prefer FOTEPX's idea for BOTM (I would like to give this a test run with a checkbox or notification from the person to say "Hey, I updated my showcase and want this robot to be sent for BOTM please!" Might require some testing but think this would be a good direction to go in.)

Challenge Belt:

- Challenge Belt could use a dedicated host (Absolutely think this is vital.)
- Have the title defended once a week (Yup, I think I can agree with this too.)
- Parsec Challenge Belts for the metas (I am down for this, think this could be a great idea!)
- Have Challenge Belt title holders on the front page somewhere (I feel this is important, BOTM winnners get to be on the front page. I'll talk with 09 and see if we can get some restructuring going...that being said I can't remember who any of the title holders are. We don't want to overload the front page though, while Poke's idea is cool...not sure how we'd organise it.)

As an additional idea: I'm thinking of designing Challenge Belt/BOTM themed awards to the people that win these events. Might be another good way to go "Oh, they're holding the belt? Gonna have to challenge for that soon."

This has been very helpful, thanks for all the ideas so far! I've got a good idea what direction to go in but I'm still up for listening to more ideas if you may have them!
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