Starcore AI Pack 4.0 Reboot

[Starcore]

>>> You can be involved in updating and tuning the Starcore AI v4.0 pack to current Stock standards. <<<

It has been about 8 to 10 years since I was last actively involved in RA2 (amazing that it has been that long) and I am trying to see how much interest there is in my finishing Starcore v4 Alpha2 into a completed release.

That would include additional quality teams as there are new ideas to show off and updates to the UI, splash screen, botlab and the like to make it more fun. (That could be you)

I am reaching out to everyone to see if people would like to see something like that happen and who would be willing to be involved in helping, adding, testing and tuning.

My time is limited but I do recognize this is a loose thread in my life and that it would be fun for people for us to pull together favorite Stock bots, UI features, maps, botlab, etc from over the last decade plus.

Also, for Starcore v4 is there any bots or teams you feel are not effective enough to help teach RA2 techniques and bot combat and need to be dumped?

Across 210+ bots I am sure there are some lemons by today's standards. While it is nice to be the toughest bot pack around the key goal was and is to teach by example(s).

Separately I realize that DSL has grown in scope and range to keep RA2 interesting and fun. As a Founding Father of DSL that makes me very proud and happy. So I don't know if there is a need to update a Stock RA2 pack in today's world. ,

What do you think?

Starcore

[Jammy Dodger]

i would be willing to help :D

[Avalanche]

Honestly? I don't know.

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

I feel maybe creating an DSL Standard pack would be best, maybe using Mr. AS's rebalance pack, because Stock is kind of stagnant currently.

[Dreamcast]

Honestly? I don't know.

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

Then help encourage growth, or don't try to stop it. I remember you posted a good point during an IRL vs. Stock-Unrealistic argument.

If you wish to support a meta, do a tournament for it or keep quiet with the complaints please because you won't change the majority's favorite meta by simple persuasion.

This was a good point, a meta's proponents should promote activity in that meta. However, now I feel there is a contradictory caveat: Stock players need to stop moaning, but the humblest one should consider developing an AI pack for DSL.

[Dark-Al]

Honestly? I don't know.

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

Then help encourage growth.

Dreamcast is right. If we help and revive Stock with a new Starcore pack. We can encourage more people to build more Stock bots over the basic Pop-ups, SNS and HS bots fest. For example we could build a few Gut-ripper bots or VS bots for a change instead. I know that not everyone will help and I understand that for numerous reasons like with the Wiki, but if everyone can play a part we'll get somewhere at least.

As for me, I would like to help. But I feel my stock skills aren't up to scratch. But I'll may give it a try.

[Starcore]

This is in part why I am asking if it is worth it to update the Starcore v4 pack?

DSL and Starcore Stock are the 2 branches of the fork we started so many years ago.

Stock for people that wanted to play with what came with the original game and could be presented to each other in unmodified versions of the game. The key rule was always: What could be built in the RA2 botlab?

DSL for people that wanted closer to Real Life robotics and representations of the bots they have seen with reasonably fair and balanced parts but definitely more than what Stock RA2 provided.

Starcore Stock AI packs have always been about helping people through example on bot and AI building techniques.

Is that needed anymore?

Do you have enough Stock packs to sate your interests and needs?

Is something like Starcore AI v4.0 effectively a dead horse?

While it would be nice to enhance the UI, Botlab, additional arenas included, patched for wide monitors and the like is that acceptable and desired for a Stock pack?

Starcore

[Avalanche]

Honestly? I don't know.

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

Then help encourage growth, or don't try to stop it. I remember you posted a good point during an IRL vs. Stock-Unrealistic argument.

If you wish to support a meta, do a tournament for it or keep quiet with the complaints please because you won't change the majority's favorite meta by simple persuasion.

This was a good point, a meta's proponents should promote activity in that meta. However, now I feel there is a contradictory caveat: Stock players need to stop moaning, but the humblest one should consider developing an AI pack for DSL.

Contradiction or not, I have a point. What could a new pack cover that hasn't been already?

I said "maybe" for a reason: I was simply proposing an idea. Hell, I don't really like DSL-S, i just felt with a new pack on a new mod (which just got a new rebalance) the meta might be able to be updated, improved. But what can really be done with Stock?

I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I think it should be considered.

This is in part why I am asking if it is worth it to update the Starcore v4 pack?

DSL and Starcore Stock are the 2 branches of the fork we started so many years ago.

Stock for people that wanted to play with what came with the original game and could be presented to each other in unmodified versions of the game. The key rule was always: What could be built in the RA2 botlab?

DSL for people that wanted closer to Real Life robotics and representations of the bots they have seen with reasonably fair and balanced parts but definitely more than what Stock RA2 provided.

Starcore Stock AI packs have always been about helping people through example on bot and AI building techniques.

Is that needed anymore?

Do you have enough Stock packs to sate your interests and needs?

Is something like Starcore AI v4.0 effectively a dead horse?

While it would be nice to enhance the UI, Botlab, additional arenas included, patched for wide monitors and the like is that acceptable and desired for a Stock pack?

Starcore

I personally think it's a dead horse, but I don't build much Stock.

[090901]

i like stock and we need more oddball stock bots 

[Dreamcast]

Contradiction or not, I have a point. What could a new pack cover that hasn't been already?

I said "maybe" for a reason: I was simply proposing an idea. Hell, I don't really like DSL-S, i just felt with a new pack on a new mod (which just got a new rebalance) the meta might be able to be updated, improved. But what can really be done with Stock?

I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I think it should be considered.

And what of DSL-S? What can be done in DSL-S that hasn't been done before? Literally everything has been done. Just because the parts are "rebalanced" does not mean you can make a new bot type.

[Mecha]

I feel maybe creating an DSL Standard pack would be best, maybe using Mr. AS's rebalance pack, because Stock is kind of stagnant currently.

Why don't you **** off

[Avalanche]

I feel maybe creating an DSL Standard pack would be best, maybe using Mr. AS's rebalance pack, because Stock is kind of stagnant currently.

Why don't you **** off

apologies for responding to starcore's wish for feedback

Contradiction or not, I have a point. What could a new pack cover that hasn't been already?

I said "maybe" for a reason: I was simply proposing an idea. Hell, I don't really like DSL-S, i just felt with a new pack on a new mod (which just got a new rebalance) the meta might be able to be updated, improved. But what can really be done with Stock?

I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I think it should be considered.

And what of DSL-S? What can be done in DSL-S that hasn't been done before? Literally everything has been done. Just because the parts are "rebalanced" does not mean you can make a new bot type.

If everything's been done in DSL-S, then Everything in Stock has also been done. Thing is the current DSL-S meta has slightly more options than stock personally.

Also, why are you all taking this as a personal insult? Good lord.

[doot]

Honestly? I don't know.

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

I feel maybe creating an DSL Standard pack would be best, maybe using Mr. AS's rebalance pack, because Stock is kind of stagnant currently.

The problem is, and this is coming from someone with a bit of stigma towards stock, is that Starcore AI isn't gonna be the same if it was another metagame. Its sorta like making something like LD AI be Retooled-Standard. Feels unnatural is what i'm trying to say here. (that was a bad analogy, i apologise)

Having a Starcore AI pack not be Stock is something that would feel so wrong in my honest opinion here. Starcore AI V4 should hopefully give better designs, what with the 10 or so years of change that has happened to the general stock building scene.

Also,

Why don't you **** off

Real mature, mate. A veteran of RA2 re-appears and that's what he'll see in the comments. Because its easier to tell someone to **** off than to actually give reasoning as to why it is a bad idea.

[Dreamcast]

If everything's been done in DSL-S, then Everything in Stock has also been done. Thing is the current DSL-S meta has slightly more options than stock personally.

Personally? Perhaps make a personal AI pack then.

Also, why are you all taking this as a personal insult? Good lord.

I'm not insulted, but I'll reconsider how I post if I'm coming off that way to everyone.

[Thrackerzod]

Firstly of all, it is super cool that Starcore came back.

Secondly, as you may know, I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Stock building.  As cool as a proper Starcore v4 would be, I don't think I'd do much with it, and I definitely wouldn't do much towards making it (unless I'm allowed to send in my patented VS).  Good luck with whatever you end up doing.

[Dreamcast]

unless I'm allowed to send in my patented VS.

Are you going to charge a fee for licensing?

[Thrackerzod]

unless I'm allowed to send in my patented VS.

Are you going to charge a fee for licensing?

Plan to.

[09090901]

IMO, Starcore was never a max efficiency AI pack in my eyes. While it definitely has effective designs in it, and it certainly helped move stock forward, it's greatest strength has always been the diversity of bots. There are lots of bots in SC you won't see in another AI pack.  Yes bot types aren't all equal, but it's like that in every meta and has been like that since the start of ra2, and as long as rebuilds are built to the best of the design while still resembling their predecessors, bitching about the meta shouldn't be an issue.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

I like this ideal as a whole but honestly I'm not sure how it will work well.
How many people worked on the previous versions? Was it open to everyone?

I feel like making it completely open will make people argue about "superior designs" etc. Personally I feel that my 1WD HSs represent the pinnacle of a particular building style, but I understand that many people would disagree. Especially as that was more of an Inf AI thing.
I would much rather it be a closed affair with input asked for any specific problems faced. Yet how many active member would I trust to do it justice?

Even so, if people ask me for my input on something, I will do so happily. Hit me up if you wanna talk stiltbots :D

[Mr. AS]

Stock's been slowly dying down, and it's kinda become a HS, Popup, SNS fest.

Whenever I see something like this posted, 90% of the time it's from someone that only builds IRL.

Also, fixing up or making slight tweaks to half the bots in an existing AI pack is easier than making something like 100 or 200 new robots from scratch.

[Dreamcast]

I not in a position to look at RA2 again because of a third hardware incident. However I remember some robots that I has issues with. I'll be away, but while I'm gone I will think about which machines were which and come back with some examples of what should be repaired/replaced/renewed/anything else that begins with "r".