Author Topic: RA2: Retooled  (Read 23575 times)

Offline WenXiangLee

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #100 on: July 11, 2016, 02:15:05 AM »
Plastic 0.05 is useless armor
But Steel 20 IS OVERKILL ARMOR.

Offline Avalanche

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #101 on: July 11, 2016, 02:55:46 AM »
How do you know that? You haven't played the mod yet. Also, you clearly ignore the potential for Antweights to use these smaller plastic arbors to help them reach the max weight of their class. And UHWs will be wanting to use the largest arm peas there will be lots of UHWs with huge amounts of weaponry.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 05:41:34 AM by Avalanche »
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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2016, 06:32:38 AM »
55 armor choices still seems a bit too much tbh... that's even more than what the RWRA2+ mod has, i get the idea of having no way to be underweight... but it's still overkill imo
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Offline cephalopod

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2016, 06:41:22 AM »
I think it's a cool mechanic.

The only slight downside is I think it'll remove the mental tug of war a lot of people play with 'I need this armour on this, so I need to drop weight somewhere else' because you can just get just slightly less strong armour and not have to drop the weight.

Offline WenXiangLee

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2016, 07:00:24 AM »
Can we use Plastic 0.5 for building antweight bot?

But still cool.

Also
There is Titanium 20?

Offline Badger

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2016, 07:07:46 AM »
I think 55 armor choices will just be clutter, tbh.

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2016, 09:38:43 AM »
I think its a great idea

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2016, 10:48:19 PM »
I see this being very helpful for the same reasons craaig thinks is a downside. hate having to swap armor for one more razor, then look for something else to add with the extra weight.

very hyped for the beta.

Offline WenXiangLee

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2016, 03:44:28 AM »
it's beta released?

Offline Mr. AS

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2016, 05:31:08 PM »
Yep.

I've decided that this is more of an alpha than a beta, but the content is still the same.

https://gametechmods.com/uploads/files/8146Retooled Alpha.rar

^download link

and here's the readme listing how to install and the features of this mod thus far:


TL;DR, paste this over a clean copy of stock. You'll be left with the rookies team and a few stock AI bots that will crash if you try to load them, but I've also included 3* AI teams for you to play around with and test bots against.

*the SHW of the 3rd team doesn't exist yet, since it requires a special component that I haven't made.

To do:
-more components
   -currently ~50% complete with default components, 30% complete with cheatbot2 components
   -these numbers don't take into account any components that get left on the cutting room floor
-complete building the other 15 AI teams
-further edit the UI
-decide weather or not 55 armors is unnecessary or not. You guys should voice your opinions on this after trying it out. General opinion is pretty mixed right now. I'm not inclined to remove features but if it's still excessive, then I'll cut it down to something like 20 or 30. done

Known issues, mostly minor stuff that will be fixed in later releases:
-weapon z tek Large and Largest have slightly off APs (as in, very slightly. You probably won't notice it until you read this).
-skirt hinge can attach outside the chassis done
-steering unit axle weight could be better
-car steering lacks a stylized preview image. It's skin has not yet been finalized.
-medium drum has a weird AP on the bottom, even though the APs appear fine in component preview. might be an ID issue. done

Feel free to report any bugs and/or massively imbalanced components you find. I'm still at the point where I can easily go through and make balance changes to most variables. Right now I'm thinking about toning down normals weapons and the slamhammers.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 09:18:48 PM by Mr. AS »
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Offline Naryar

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #110 on: July 15, 2016, 04:52:42 AM »
55 armor choices seem too much to me. Like... 40 would be more than enough, from the starting 16.

0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 10, 15, 20. Ten for each material.

Steel 20 would be overkill but maybe usable for UHW's, and Plastic 0.25 would be neat to get ALL that weight for antweights.

2 centimeters of steel is already pushing the borders of realism and entering into tank armor, and so is 0.25 mm plastic.

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #111 on: July 17, 2016, 09:38:01 AM »
I think the burst motors need to be looked at again. I like the speed but they're way too weak, 50-ish kilos of weapons on a long arm and even the heaviest burst can't retract.

Offline I Like Tacos

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2016, 08:32:12 PM »
This is a pretty cool mod so far, although I've noticed a few issues with some component models.

All of the rai wheels, the disks, and the flag seem to have messed up mesh normals. It makes the shading look weird. Most likely it could be fixed by scaling some axis of the verticies by -1.

Also, the rad motor is kind of weird. The attachment points and the axle aren't centered, so you can't have even wheels.

Offline Mr. AS

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #113 on: July 22, 2016, 11:42:26 PM »
wall o' text ahead

Had some fun with Clickbeetle's thrusters. I actually sent Click a PM asking if I could edit+include some of his parts in my mod or not... back in May. He never responded.  :confused: If he comes out and says that he's not cool with it though, I'll swap out the model for something else.



They come in 5 sizes and all of them are short enough to fit in a minimum height chassis (as well as put a control board/battery on top of them). Red thrusters are your standard fare boosters. Press extend to Sanic it up, the usual. Blue thrusters are more powerful and use "base = BurstPiston" instead of "base = ServoPiston". What this means is that you get larger boosts of speed out of warp boosters, at the price of it not being a constant speed boost.

I feel boosters can bring a lot to the table. You can use them to simulate floor magnets a la Bite Force, increase speed in a given direction, make a helicopter, or just fling yourself into the air like this is Super Mario or something. Before anyone asks, you can make a robot that entirely uses thrusters for movement, but it'll be a complete pain in the ass to control and aim at your opponent.  :dumb)

Here's a roughly 500kg robot getting under Search & Destroy XL, a SHW:



and here's the same robot, but with warp boosters, slamming into the Octagon's invisible ceiling:


You can also make designs that counter existing bot archetypes. What's a popup to do when you use thrusters to just push yourself off it's wedge? Or how about a SnS that gets hopped on by another robot? Or a HS that gets box rushed by a pain train of thrusters and car steering?
It should be noted, however, that thrusters are fairly heavy and require a reliable supply of gas. So don't just go and slap one on any old robot and think that it'll be instantly better because of it. Hint: it won't. This isn't like those dumb OP ironforge flamethrowers that autowin DPS fights for you. You have to put some thought into it and decide if you would actually benefit from a thruster or two. Thrusters are also exclusive to Extreme Mode (aka cheatbot2). I'll get you guys to use cheatbot2 one of these days.

BASICALLY: I balanced thrusters, and now people will actually have a reason to use them since they're in a TC mod now. Eyy.


On the problems brought up with the current release:

Tested out the burst motors myself, and I kind of agree. Went ahead and doubled the retract value of burst motors. The robots I've AI'd so far haven't started havoking to hell yet since the change, which is good.

I've trimmed the fat off of the armor selections down to 40, which I think should be OK (idk if you guys agree tho). 10 of each armor like in RW:RA2. Also re-organized the armor selection so that plastic 10 is weaker than aluminum 1, and aluminum 10 is weaker than titanium 1, et al. This makes it easier to estimate what armor you put on your robot based off of what sound it makes when you hit it. You know plastic = weak and steel = not weak.
Also, no more armor below 5.5kg2 (1 kg2 armor is just havok bait) and nothing above 80kg2 (nobody's going to use steel 20, let's be real). Each armor type also has different gaps between armor choices:

Armor Type / Range of weights (weight gap between each armor thickness)
Plastic / 5.5-10 (0.5)
Aluminum / 11-20 (1)
Titanium / 22-40 (2)
Steel / 44-80 (4)

a few other misc problems have been ironed out as well. RAD motors are being looked at... I thought that they were fixed before I released the alpha, but I might have actually only fixed one of the 5 RAD motors that you can choose from. :facepalm:

I'll take a look at the shading and see what I can do. It seems to more-or-less be exclusive to the botlab though. Shading is determined by the tm_row BS at the bottom, right?
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Offline WenXiangLee

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #114 on: July 23, 2016, 08:09:31 AM »
uber cool
i can play with this bot right now


(Image removed from quote.)

They come in 5 sizes and all of them are short enough to fit in a minimum height chassis (as well as put a control board/battery on top of them). Red thrusters are your standard fare boosters. Press extend to Sanic it up, the usual. Blue thrusters are more powerful and use "base = BurstPiston" instead of "base = ServoPiston". What this means is that you get larger boosts of speed out of warp boosters, at the price of it not being a constant speed boost.

I feel boosters can bring a lot to the table. You can use them to simulate floor magnets a la Bite Force, increase speed in a given direction, make a helicopter, or just fling yourself into the air like this is Super Mario or something. Before anyone asks, you can make a robot that entirely uses thrusters for movement, but it'll be a complete pain in the ass to control and aim at your opponent.  :dumb)

Here's a roughly 500kg robot getting under Search & Destroy XL, a SHW:

(Image removed from quote.)

and here's the same robot, but with warp boosters, slamming into the Octagon's invisible ceiling:
(Image removed from quote.)

You can also make designs that counter existing bot archetypes. What's a popup to do when you use thrusters to just push yourself off it's wedge? Or how about a SnS that gets hopped on by another robot? Or a HS that gets box rushed by a pain train of thrusters and car steering?
It should be noted, however, that thrusters are fairly heavy and require a reliable supply of gas. So don't just go and slap one on any old robot and think that it'll be instantly better because of it. Hint: it won't. This isn't like those dumb OP ironforge flamethrowers that autowin DPS fights for you. You have to put some thought into it and decide if you would actually benefit from a thruster or two. Thrusters are also exclusive to Extreme Mode (aka cheatbot2). I'll get you guys to use cheatbot2 one of these days.
it very cool

Offline Geice

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2016, 02:19:06 PM »
40 armors sound much better.

Oh, and small typo, the 150kg sledgehammer is called a slammhammer in the dropdown menu.

Offline R01

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #116 on: July 23, 2016, 02:29:21 PM »
How do those thrusters work exactly? As far as I can understand they're servo/burst pistons with a high speed value and collision box to touch the ground?
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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2016, 02:35:08 PM »
these are really tight AS
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Offline Mr. AS

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #118 on: July 30, 2016, 09:44:16 PM »
Fixed a few more typos + bugs. Lighting seems to be determined by all these "MESH_TVERT's" in the .gmf, but I can't seem to figure out how to fix the lighting for the components that have weird shading. I'll keep trying at it, but it's not as much of an issue IMO as the RADs having broken APs.

I think Firebeetle explained the best how Thrusters work:

I know a component like this seems like bogus, but in all reality it's just a servo piston that takes advantage of a flaw in the programming. I discovered the glitch whilst building HOJ2- that when the end position for a piston's prismatic is set to a negative number instead of the usual positive, the piston won't move and instead all the force is directed into the bot.
Thus to operate the rocket jet, you need some air tanks and need to wire them to 'extend'. (Sadly they can't go in reverse with 'Retract'; it does nothing.)

Warp Jets (the blue thrusters) function the same as regular Thrusters, except they use "base = BurstPiston" instead of "base = ServoPiston", so they're wired with a Fire command instead of an Extend one.

New baseplate anchors, and some decorations.



The red extender-looking things are Multiextenders. They're basically DSL's multiextender on roids. and has two APs on the sides every 0.05 in-game units (raising a component by one tick using CTRL is 0.05). It has some lighting issues, but I'm hoping to fix that by the time the beta is released, hopefully some time in August. They can also be attached at an angle for even more FUN.

The longer baseplate anchors are called anchor arrays. You know how the regular baseplate anchor is roughly 1 chassis square wide? The anchor arrays are roughly 2, 3, 4, and 5 chassis squares wide. It's also worth noting that the multiextender and anchor arrays have no collision and weigh 0.0 kg, just like the baseplate anchor.

Not really much to say on the decorations. The red and blue ornaments are 1kg, and the decorative spikes are 1, 2, and 3kg.

The female attachment points on the ME and the anchor arrays are a bit cramped though. Example:

So I may have to make a new, longer AP model so that it's easier to click on an individual AP when they're all clustered up.

Deconstruction Crew's SHW, and new handmade botlab background:

Need to edit the text color of a few things so that it doesn't blend into the background as much. I also plan on redoing the other UI background eventually.

There's also a few new wheels on the bot, but there isn't really much to say about them. Maybe I'll put all the wheels into an excel chart for easy reference.
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Offline WenXiangLee

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Re: RA2: Retooled
« Reply #119 on: July 30, 2016, 09:47:14 PM »
SHW Drum look awesome.