Author Topic: Replacing models in DSL?  (Read 3506 times)

Offline -iKa-

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Replacing models in DSL?
« on: July 27, 2016, 10:22:14 PM »
So I'm new here, and I've been playing DSL2.2 with the component freedom mod a fair bit, and a few things have been bothering me, and I was wondering if anyone could explain them.
  • Is it possible to create higher detail models for all of the components? I'm sort of experienced in 3D modelling and would be interested in replacing a few things such as the 259 disc & several other weapons. (if this is actually possible I would gladly model literally everything, summer break has been quite boring so far :P)
  • Is there a way to fix the wonkiness of motors with extenders attached to them with motors on them? I've been trying to create a design with a controllable tail but so far have faced many many problems with the tail doing 50 flips every time I try to activate it, even with servo motors. Similar problem with a different component for my Stinger Replica.
Any help would be highly appreciated!

Offline Badger

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 10:26:11 PM »
It's certainly possible. I'm not sure how to do it myself, but I'm sure one of the more experienced members will give you a hand!
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline R01

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 06:32:13 AM »
It's possible to do higher quality models, however remember that this also increases the loading time. https://wiki.gametechmods.com/index.php?title=Creating_Components this one has a basic guide to get you started. Sadly exporting the original parts is currently not possible. However I've heard that Serge is working on something new which should allow us to do stuff without 3ds max and import the original components back.

As for the unstable motor on extender on motor, best way to keep them controlled(and not bouncing all over the place) is to make them balanced, however this might not fully fix it.
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Offline cephalopod

Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 07:34:52 AM »
It's the skins that need the update more than the models in my opinion.

Also for the 50 flips thing, are you using only an extender? If a motor has very little weight on it it can havok and freak out. Try adding some more.
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Offline R01

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 08:10:50 AM »
It's the skins that need the update more than the models in my opinion.

Also for the 50 flips thing, are you using only an extender? If a motor has very little weight on it it can havok and freak out. Try adding some more.
Think he's doing motor stacking
  • Is there a way to fix the wonkiness of motors with extenders attached to them with motors on them? I've been trying to create a design with a controllable tail but so far have faced many many problems with the tail doing 50 flips every time I try to activate it, even with servo motors. Similar problem with a different component for my Stinger Replica.
Probably to create a Snake like robot that waves around to move forward?
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Offline -iKa-

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 11:36:46 PM »
Thanks for the replies so far! I've got two more questions.
  • Is it possible to make all of the sounds have higher bitrates? I know that everything is encoded in wav files meaning theoretically infinite bitrate. but would it change the loading times a lot?
  • Is it possible to have functioning shaders in the game that cast shadows and do reflections and such properly? Is this game even compatible with the newer havok engine?

Offline cephalopod

Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 03:30:18 AM »
The engine etc is basically hardcoded into the exe, you'll have a hell of a job getting into there. As for the sounds, best thing to do with RA2 is just give it a shot and revert if it doesn't work :)
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Offline Serge

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2016, 10:57:02 PM »
However I've heard that Serge is working on something new which should allow us to do stuff without 3ds max and import the original components back.
Correct - I was thinking of creating a very crude Blender exporter. iKa - what is you typical workflow / software stack (a.k.a. can you do/learn Blender)?

Is it possible to make all of the sounds have higher bitrates? I know that everything is encoded in wav files meaning theoretically infinite bitrate. but would it change the loading times a lot?
Shouldn't be an issue, experiment around and see what the engine does when fed a higher bitrate wave file. If it acts up, we can surely patch it to make it behave.

Is it possible to have functioning shaders in the game that cast shadows and do reflections and such properly? Is this game even compatible with the newer havok engine?
This uses pretty old DX - and that's as far as my DX knowledge goes (sorry, I'm an OpenGL person due to the platforms I work with/on). I'm pretty sure someone more experience with WinAPI/DX hacking could chime in on how possible is it to hack around old pipelines in video games.

And the only thing I know about the Havok engine in this game is this:
Code: [Select]
-------------------------------------
 Havok Hardcore - Version(4545) Build(20021015)
 Client version
 Base system initialized.             
--------------------------------------
I assume a few things might've changed since 2002 ;).
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Offline R01

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2016, 08:07:34 AM »
However I've heard that Serge is working on something new which should allow us to do stuff without 3ds max and import the original components back.
Correct - I was thinking of creating a very crude Blender exporter. iKa - what is you typical workflow / software stack (a.k.a. can you do/learn Blender)?
I've already said it once and will say it again, just do that thing already :P Blender is probably the best free 3d modelling software you can get and quite a lot of people use it from what I've heard, it's the thing right next to 3ds max(and I guess a few other big ones) and having anything that allows people to do custom components without having to pay for 3ds max would definitely open up modding for more people.

Quote
Is it possible to have functioning shaders in the game that cast shadows and do reflections and such properly? Is this game even compatible with the newer havok engine?
This uses pretty old DX - and that's as far as my DX knowledge goes (sorry, I'm an OpenGL person due to the platforms I work with/on). I'm pretty sure someone more experience with WinAPI/DX hacking could chime in on how possible is it to hack around old pipelines in video games.

And the only thing I know about the Havok engine in this game is this:
Code: [Select]
-------------------------------------
 Havok Hardcore - Version(4545) Build(20021015)
 Client version
 Base system initialized.             
--------------------------------------
I assume a few things might've changed since 2002 ;).
Maybe someone could try to see if the ENB Series mod works on it, never bothered to do so since I don't mind the graphics that much.
Edit: quickly tried it and it didn't seem to work.
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Offline Badger

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2016, 10:27:34 AM »
If it uses DX it should be compatible with SweetFX right?
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline -iKa-

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 09:31:20 PM »
iKa - what is you typical workflow / software stack (a.k.a. can you do/learn Blender)?
errr I mean my typical workflow is cinema 4d, but that can export almost any filetype, and if there are any problems I can always just export to STL and convert it from there.

Offline Serge

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 02:22:42 PM »
iKa - what is you typical workflow / software stack (a.k.a. can you do/learn Blender)?
errr I mean my typical workflow is cinema 4d, but that can export almost any filetype, and if there are any problems I can always just export to STL and convert it from there.
Well, you always lose _some_ metadata when transferring between different editing software, but fair enough.
…and I don't think STL does texturing, but I imagine there is another decent interchange format between C4D and Blender.

If it uses DX it should be compatible with SweetFX right?
See, you people know better than me. Of course someone made an universal shader injector for DX.
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Offline -iKa-

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 03:14:35 PM »
If it uses DX it should be compatible with SweetFX right?
So I tried out SweetFX, doesn't really do what I wanted, I mean, it works, but I was more looking for a way to generally improve reflections, shadows, etc.

EDIT: so I made a model of sorts, not actually part of DSL originally but would this be too detailed?

(exclude the tiles on the ground obviously)
All of the cylinders have 36 faces if that matters.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 08:23:45 PM by -iKa- »

Offline -iKa-

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2016, 07:58:41 PM »
It's the skins that need the update more than the models in my opinion.

So after a bit of work, I made this:

Not Jaw-droppingly good, but I can comfortably say it's a start.

EDIT: After further inspection I've realized that something of this size doesn't really have much of a point in getting re-textured. It doesn't seem to do all that much because of the lack of Anisotropic Filtering in RA2. I'm gonna make another progress report after a slightly bigger modification.

Offline Badger

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 08:13:28 PM »
lookin good. Did you do anything with that cool motor model?
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline Badnik96

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2016, 12:25:37 AM »
IIRC the guys behind the Robot Wars modpack got shaders and anti-aliasing to work with RA2. I don't entirely remember the extent of that and how they did it, but it's possible at the very least.

Offline R01

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2016, 08:12:23 AM »
IIRC the guys behind the Robot Wars modpack got shaders and anti-aliasing to work with RA2. I don't entirely remember the extent of that and how they did it, but it's possible at the very least.
Would be interested in getting Anti Aliasing to work, will mess around with RW pack.
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Offline cephalopod

Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2016, 10:10:10 AM »
iirc it was external graphics card based software or something
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Offline -iKa-

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Re: Replacing models in DSL?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2016, 01:41:37 PM »
IIRC the guys behind the Robot Wars modpack got shaders and anti-aliasing to work with RA2. I don't entirely remember the extent of that and how they did it, but it's possible at the very least.

Yeah, but there's anti-aliasing and anisotropy. Anti-aliasing smooths out edges of models, anisotropic filtering smooths out rendering of textures so you don't get jagged lines on textures. They're pretty much the same thing but for different elements of graphics.

That said, even just anti-aliasing would be quite nice, but the MSAA I've tried out doesn't work that well (at least the one from SweetFX, it doesn't seem to do much to it).