Author Topic: DSL 2.3  (Read 2163 times)

Online Tails. inc

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2018, 08:23:58 AM »
If you need new components i could dust off my 3ds max and do some stuff
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Offline FOTEPX

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Re: DSL 2.3 Beta
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2018, 09:28:45 AM »
If you need new components i could dust off my 3ds max and do some stuff

I don't think we need new components as much as we need to optimise and improve what's already there. You're free to give that a shot, though!


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Offline geese

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2018, 01:31:26 PM »
Can you consider looking at the 2.2 tracks? They almost constantly AGOD compared to the ones in IF and even retooled
lra2 is a god compared to geice lol...

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2018, 04:40:55 PM »
Can you consider looking at the 2.2 tracks? They almost constantly AGOD compared to the ones in IF and even retooled

I'll compare and contrast, try and see what the issue is.


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Online Billy5545

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2018, 06:29:47 PM »
- New Python-based idea that probably won't work but will be really cool if it does.  Basic concept is to enable "overvolting" motors for more power, at the risk of triggering battery fires.  Might be able to work this through the Arenas __init__.py, but have not tested... as I said, probably won't work.
That idea sounds good. How about making that idea larger by adding the concept of malfunction, where random components can fail, damaging or destroying them. It will be based on chance

Offline cephalopod

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2018, 06:43:16 PM »
- New Python-based idea that probably won't work but will be really cool if it does.  Basic concept is to enable "overvolting" motors for more power, at the risk of triggering battery fires.  Might be able to work this through the Arenas __init__.py, but have not tested... as I said, probably won't work.
That idea sounds good. How about making that idea larger by adding the concept of malfunction, where random components can fail, damaging or destroying them. It will be based on chance

I dunno I'd rather keep that sort of rng random crit stuff out of ra2...

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2018, 01:46:21 AM »
- New Python-based idea that probably won't work but will be really cool if it does.  Basic concept is to enable "overvolting" motors for more power, at the risk of triggering battery fires.  Might be able to work this through the Arenas __init__.py, but have not tested... as I said, probably won't work.
That idea sounds good. How about making that idea larger by adding the concept of malfunction, where random components can fail, damaging or destroying them. It will be based on chance

I dunno I'd rather keep that sort of rng random crit stuff out of ra2...

If it works, it will not be luck-based.  I've played too much Pokemon to willingly introduce that sort of hax into RA2.

Rather, my idea is that if you take a hit over X points of damage, you'll get a lipo fire (or something like it anyway, given that there are no actual lipo batteries in DSL).  The value of X depends on a variety of factors.  But the really cool thing I want to try is overvolting; the battery fire bit is just a possible way to balance it.

I should just do this and see if it works instead of posting about it.

If you need new components i could dust off my 3ds max and do some stuff

I don't think we need new components as much as we need to optimise and improve what's already there. You're free to give that a shot, though!

Belted E-teks would be nice.  I was planning on using the Nightmare replica E-tek and fiddling with the belt length to make standard versions.  But those are really the only new components I'd like to see.

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2018, 07:08:16 AM »
Oh the overvolting idea I think is really cool adding that sort of risk-reward. But the 'random component failure' that Billy suggested outside of that battery system is something I personally would strive to avoid

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2018, 07:10:35 AM »
Oh the overvolting idea I think is really cool adding that sort of risk-reward. But the 'random component failure' that Billy suggested outside of that battery system is something I personally would strive to avoid
So, it shouldn't be like IRL, where unrealiable component(s) randomly fail

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2018, 07:28:44 AM »
Oh the overvolting idea I think is really cool adding that sort of risk-reward. But the 'random component failure' that Billy suggested outside of that battery system is something I personally would strive to avoid
So, it shouldn't be like IRL, where unrealiable component(s) randomly fail
I agree with Craig. Its just not fun for anyone

Offline Nightraven Shade

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2018, 08:23:17 AM »
Rather then it being random why not have it consider placement a battery right on edge of chassis that takes to many hits will be destroyed same as external motors give batteries a HP value and all them to pass through chassis
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:56:11 AM by Nightraven Shade »

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2018, 12:19:40 PM »
Oh the overvolting idea I think is really cool adding that sort of risk-reward. But the 'random component failure' that Billy suggested outside of that battery system is something I personally would strive to avoid
So, it shouldn't be like IRL, where unrealiable component(s) randomly fail
nah. it's a game not a simulator. RA2 doesn't have other basic features of real life that you would need in addition to it either, like structural integrity or fall damage, etc
having random failure isn't fun. it isn't fun in real life either...

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Re: DSL 2.2 Complete Edition
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2018, 12:25:20 PM »
Oh the overvolting idea I think is really cool adding that sort of risk-reward. But the 'random component failure' that Billy suggested outside of that battery system is something I personally would strive to avoid
Yes it would kinda suck for tournaments but I think I would like to see a version of the game with that

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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2018, 05:06:39 PM »
IT WORKS



You can now run bots at 24V (default), 36V, 48V, 60V, or 72V, depending on how many control boards you add!

The solution I came up with is slightly janky, so I'm thinking about adding another control board component that is called a "voltage regulator" to make it appear more realistic less unrealistic.

This will be a godsend especially to IRL builders who want a realistically powerful bot, but without needing to somehow artfully fit a huge clunky dual Perm somewhere in the build.  Instead of running a dual Perm at 24V, you could run a Magmotor at 72V.  (Disclaimer: I don't actually know the relative power levels of all the motors at different voltages.)

Obviously adding 8 kg worth of control boards to make your bot twice as powerful is an overpowered mechanic and, as it stands, no one would ever use a dual Perm again.  That's why I came up with the battery fire idea, which I will start working on next.

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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #54 on: July 15, 2018, 05:13:25 PM »
IT WORKS



You can now run bots at 24V (default), 36V, 48V, 60V, or 72V, depending on how many control boards you add!

The solution I came up with is slightly janky, so I'm thinking about adding another control board component that is called a "voltage regulator" to make it appear more realistic less unrealistic.

This will be a godsend especially to IRL builders who want a realistically powerful bot, but without needing to somehow artfully fit a huge clunky dual Perm somewhere in the build.  Instead of running a dual Perm at 24V, you could run a Magmotor at 72V.  (Disclaimer: I don't actually know the relative power levels of all the motors at different voltages.)

Obviously adding 8 kg worth of control boards to make your bot twice as powerful is an overpowered mechanic and, as it stands, no one would ever use a dual Perm again.  That's why I came up with the battery fire idea, which I will start working on next.

This is certainly an interesting mechanic to implement, but the issue raised is that you can use motors designed for antweights and have them with the power of heavyweight motors, for much less of the cost. I suggest adding limits per motor and possibly so they drain the battery faster.

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Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #55 on: July 15, 2018, 05:14:12 PM »
How are you gonna maintain the division between drive motors and weapon motors, or do you plan to abandon that?

Edit: to expand on this, say I have a bot with a dual perm that I overvolt to 72V or whatever. With the mod as it is now affecting all motors, drive and weapon, equally, I'm gonna be able to use copals or astros or something for drive and still have my bot go at reasonable speeds, which just doesn't really seem right to me when you have a giant motor like a dual perm for your weapon. Is there any way to maybe only have the overvolt effect apply to weapon motors or something?
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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #56 on: July 15, 2018, 05:16:34 PM »
you could also add heavier reskinned control boards as "overvolting modules", problem is that checking that the builders use these and not just 5 control boards is a self-imposed thing
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Offline FOTEPX

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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2018, 05:20:08 PM »
This is certainly an interesting mechanic to implement, but the issue raised is that you can use motors designed for antweights and have them with the power of heavyweight motors, for much less of the cost. I suggest adding limits per motor and possibly so they drain the battery faster.

I agree - certain motors should, if possible, have hard voltage limits, where if the voltage goes over this limit, the motor's a LOT more prone to LiPo fires, or just flat-out refuses to work.

Either way, it's great to see progress on this!  :claping


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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2018, 05:34:04 PM »
As a closer emulation to robot combat. I like it and am interested by the effects this has. But as a game, this skews all balance, astroflights drive would be pretty meta. Dual Perm 72v sounds insane. It's a risky balancing act for this. I hope to see it develop more tho.

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Re: DSL 2.3
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2018, 05:41:26 PM »
This is certainly an interesting mechanic to implement, but the issue raised is that you can use motors designed for antweights and have them with the power of heavyweight motors, for much less of the cost. I suggest adding limits per motor and possibly so they drain the battery faster.

It's not quite that bad.  I just did a quick test, and 72V Copals (LOL, imagine that in real life) are about the same as 24V Astroflights on a heavyweight.  You can use them, but it's still not going to be fast.

I would really want to make running high voltage reduce battery life, but so far as I know, there is no Python command to do that.

The problem is that the plus.describe() command I'm using only returns component IDs and basic types (ControlBoard, SpinMotor, Weapon, etc.).  You can't get names of specific components.  Otherwise, I would make custom "high voltage" batteries with reduced total power, and have the game look for those, instead of this weird control board workaround.  This also means I can't make the voltage only apply to certain motors.  Although, I could limit it based on weight class.

How are you gonna maintain the division between drive motors and weapon motors, or do you plan to abandon that?

Edit: to expand on this, say I have a bot with a dual perm that I overvolt to 72V or whatever. With the mod as it is now affecting all motors, drive and weapon, equally, I'm gonna be able to use copals or astros or something for drive and still have my bot go at reasonable speeds, which just doesn't really seem right to me when you have a giant motor like a dual perm for your weapon. Is there any way to maybe only have the overvolt effect apply to weapon motors or something?

Nothing I can do about that unfortunately.  Except that a 72V dual Perm would be completely overkill for anything below SHW class (and maybe even for SHW), and at that weight level, even 72V Astroflights aren't going to be great for drive.

As a closer emulation to robot combat. I like it and am interested by the effects this has. But as a game, this skews all balance, astroflights drive would be pretty meta. Dual Perm 72v sounds insane. It's a risky balancing act for this. I hope to see it develop more tho.

Indeed.  I'll try to balance it by adding a risk of battery fires, but if it's still overpowered, I can always reduce the bonus you get for overvolting (so maybe 72V gives you 2x or 1.5x power instead of 3x).

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