gametechmods

Robot Arena => Modifications => Topic started by: Bildschirm on July 28, 2019, 02:22:08 AM

Title: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Bildschirm on July 28, 2019, 02:22:08 AM
MOD DOWNLOADS:

IRL Coloured Drums Mod v1.0
IRL Coloured Bars Mod v1.11

Future plans:

Patch for the IRL 12mm Round Extenders

Anti Crash Patch v2.0 (I try to make it work, hopefully)

DSL 2.3 (will be a new one)
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Bildschirm on July 28, 2019, 02:22:28 AM
Hello there! :P

First of, some of you may saw it in discord and I'm finished!

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

The IRL drum Mod is finally here! :P
It includes all three sizes of drums in all IRL colours!

Thats pretty much it, you can download it in the downloads section obviously :P
I will note it as a 1.0 version, so i can edit it when there are problems without much confusion :P

When there are problems, please let me know so i can fix them! :P

Thats it, byyyye! :P
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: pokebro14 on July 28, 2019, 02:27:20 AM
Bild you are a saint
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Team Code Pinkish Red Robotics on July 28, 2019, 06:12:11 AM
Hello there! :P

First of, some of you may saw it in discord and I'm finished!

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

The IRL drum Mod is finally here! :P
It includes all three sizes of drums in all IRL colours!

Thats pretty much it, you can download it in the downloads section obviously :P
I will note it as a 1.0 version, so i can edit it when there are problems without much confusion :P

When there are problems, please let me know so i can fix them! :P

Thats it, byyyye! :P
Heck yeah, now we don't have to wait until September 20th to get them from area 51.
(In other words, Thank you bild, very cool!)
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Bildschirm on August 01, 2019, 07:24:43 AM
Hi y'all!

I made slight adjustments to the existing bars mod from 090901, featuring the DSL bars in all IRL colours.
v1.1

The changes i made were:


  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]    [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Thats pretty much it, download it when you want do find your coloured bars quicker! =3

Thats me out then, the next thing I will be dealing with is probably a 2.0 crash patch... we will see how that will go! :P
(I think I will share some updates with you all! =3)


Version Tree:
v1.11
Fixed:
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Bildschirm on August 05, 2019, 03:06:52 PM
Research for the the true crash patch

Hi all!

This may be complex to understand for some people but whatever!

So first of I wanted to know why the anti crash patch from beetle starts to make bots wierd and stuff.

Its actually simple when you think about it.
Lets start talk about how a physic engine works (very basic, don't worry :P)

The engine looks at the collision mesh for the component and calculates the volume out of it. Then, the engine calculates stuff like attraction to the floor with the mass of the component, center of gravity... etc.
Thats pretty much it and this is were beetles tactic didnt worked out.
He made a 2D collision mesh, meaning the volume will be automaticly 0. Since everything regarding to calculate that is multiply or division, soit will always stay at 0!
The mass will be the same since you feed that information to the game. That means you basicly connect components with just a mass and no gravity to your bot, making the 2D collision components like move in space. It also gets worse with more weight, logically.
That also affects the components with no collision mesh at all.

Thats pretty much it! I don't see much ways at all to make a working anti crash patch at all.

Possiblilities:

Make the game bigger, so the physic engine doesn't need to deal with so little collision boxes.
Just waaaaaaaaaaaay to much work. Senseless to do for such a small community too.

I can actually put the weight to 0 of the small components, making a working anti crash patch since the componets woudnt have force to producing major havoks or crashes. (like the 1st anti crash patch)
The problems would be that all bots will be lighter and that would make it super incompatible in general. Also, it allows for infinite armour and probably more rules for tournaments to limit them.

I could also delete the collision mesh and set the mass to 0 to prevent it getting used as armour.
That would work with the anglesd extenders but would cause problems with the small tooths and wedge edges.


Thats all I found out fo far!

When we can't agree to 0kg items that get potencially abused as armour, I think, it will look pretty grim for an anti crash patch.
 
When you have an idea, just write it down in the comments, right? =3
Bye and have a great day! =3







Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: geese on August 05, 2019, 11:24:31 PM
I'll echo what I said on the discord, i think going with the 3rd option for the majority of components would be the best, and then going with option 2 for the wedge edges. that way they'll still work as wedges, and they aren't nearly as exploitable as something like 10cms with no weight

steel shark can be set to hidden since nobody legit uses them, and matildas could probably be left alone

Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Billy5545 on August 06, 2019, 12:39:47 AM
I'll echo what I I said on the discord, i think the going with the 3rd option for the majority of components would be the best, and then going with option 2 for the wedge edges. that way they'll still work as wedges, and they aren't nearly as exploitable as something like 10cms with no weight

steel shark can be set to hidden since nobody legit uses them, and matildas could probably be left alone
I did use Steel shark teeth on V2, and I remember a CW drum Jamie made that has them. Though the latter is an old bot, so yeah
Title: Re: Bilds evolvement for ra2 mods =3
Post by: Bildschirm on August 06, 2019, 10:55:14 PM
Ok, after some thoughts:

I will do the angled extenders and wedge edges first.

Angled extenders will haveno mass and no hitbox to prevent it getting used as armour.

Wedge edges wont have mass but will remain their hitbox since you can't spam them as armour.

I will do those two and we will see if the game improves crashing wise! =3

Thats me out again! :p
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on August 11, 2019, 06:28:17 AM
for those who missed our woke arena 2 chats, the wedgelets also seem to be on the unstable side


idk what bild is planning, but more than likely they're gonna get lengthened to 30cm (collision mesh can be enlarged further if needed)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527932002834317363/610022404063887373/unknown.png)
more stable in my testing, and far better for making angles with on an extenderbot
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Jaydee99 on August 11, 2019, 06:40:39 AM
Ahh they're cool
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Bildschirm on August 11, 2019, 07:38:03 AM
Happy that I said that they should be 30cm long! I think I wasn't the only one who got annoyed about the lengh. The lengh also helps to make it more stable. (Basicly saying what Geese did)

Anyways, planning to make wedges damageless and appliying wedges with round off tips for weapons.
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Billy5545 on August 11, 2019, 05:46:38 PM
Round off tips? Is that only for the mesh or does that also include visual change, thus the chisel is not sharp anymore, but more like rounded hammer?
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on August 13, 2019, 03:49:25 AM
Round off tips? Is that only for the mesh or does that also include visual change, thus the chisel is not sharp anymore, but more like rounded hammer?
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/527932002834317363/610754209679278082/unknown.png) 
extremely hot take: the standard wedgelets are actually terrible for use as wedges. even with the blunted tip, both the angled and flat wedges would almost always wedgelock
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: kix on August 13, 2019, 12:02:27 PM
Time for me to ruin 2.31 by adding a bunch of hseless sh**.
(Seriously if you help with adding belted/beltless stuff i can help
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on August 13, 2019, 02:51:25 PM
Time for me to ruin 2.31 by adding a bunch of hseless sh**.
(Seriously if you help with adding belted/beltless stuff i can help
idk what bild was planning, but I'd rather just fix/improve the existing components first (since tbh there is no actual discussion on what is getting changed)
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on August 16, 2019, 03:46:31 PM
I have 0 idea what bild is doing rn so I'm just going to propose some more changes since these are relatively minor and easy to implement.

- give all chassis armors the same HP/kg efficiency.
the ratio for this would be whatever is currently the most efficient or potentially higher

- give batteries an HP value that scales with weight
as recently discovered, batteries that take damage lose about half of their electotal, and batteries by default only have an HP value of 400. making HP scale with weight would also help make the heavier batteries slightly more useful considering their size

- give all weapons a 1:1 piercing to concussion ratio for their current damage potential
Would make DP more accurate as all weapons would have equal p/c ratios. actual DP would remain unchanged (for reference, typhoons already have a 1:1 ratio of 1.75p, 3.5c)

- remove the edge damage from mini/mechavore disks so that only the teeth will deal damage
currently they deal damage with both the edge and their teeth. no other stats will be changed (aside from a 1:1 ratio as seen above if people agree)

this one isn't as easy, but it was previously discussed on discord
- redo the collision mesh for various teeth as ra2 can't handle concave meshes 
this would include ripping teeth, matildas, and cutting teeth (think C shape weapons)
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Bildschirm on August 24, 2019, 06:52:15 AM
I have 0 idea what bild is doing rn so I'm just going to propose some more changes since these are relatively minor and easy to implement.

- give all chassis armors the same HP/kg efficiency.
the ratio for this would be whatever is currently the most efficient or potentially higher

- give batteries an HP value that scales with weight
as recently discovered, batteries that take damage lose about half of their electotal, and batteries by default only have an HP value of 400. making HP scale with weight would also help make the heavier batteries slightly more useful considering their size

- give all weapons a 1:1 piercing to concussion ratio for their current damage potential
Would make DP more accurate as all weapons would have equal p/c ratios. actual DP would remain unchanged (for reference, typhoons already have a 1:1 ratio of 1.75p, 3.5c)

- remove the edge damage from mini/mechavore disks so that only the teeth will deal damage
currently they deal damage with both the edge and their teeth. no other stats will be changed (aside from a 1:1 ratio as seen above if people agree)

this one isn't as easy, but it was previously discussed on discord
- redo the collision mesh for various teeth as ra2 can't handle concave meshes 
this would include ripping teeth, matildas, and cutting teeth (think C shape weapons)

I think that all would be pretty nice indeed!
I hasn't active since a windows update pretty much fried my PC and I have no motivation fixing it but we will get there eventually...
(Fixing the problem would include to reinstall windows yay)
When the problem is fixed, it will go alot faster I think.

Thats all i have to say now, byyye3
Title: improving dsl stability
Post by: geese on November 02, 2019, 04:53:05 AM
no gyro btw
https://youtu.be/-p0qtGnfPIk

unfortunately this probably won't be released as ra2 is the most broken ****ing game and we need to accept that and stop pretending like its supposed to be a half decent simulator or abandon it
Title: Re: improving dsl stability
Post by: TheOrcCorp on November 02, 2019, 05:10:57 AM
no gyro btw
https://youtu.be/-p0qtGnfPIk
Interesting! I didn't think we'd get here but it looks promising!
Quote
unfortunately this probably won't be released as ra2 is the most broken ****ing game and we need to accept that and stop pretending like its supposed to be a half decent simulator or abandon it
Hmmmm I wonder who said this? :really_makes_you_think:
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on November 02, 2019, 06:27:59 AM
still not as good as the ARC physics engine ofc
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on November 02, 2019, 07:13:55 AM
so, the video that was posted uses bilds unreleased patch that makes all the crashy components 0kgs with no collision mesh. despite technically having no collision mesh, they are still somehow damageable and can be broken off. and yes, they have to be 0kgs to prevent gyro. builders/tournament hosts are probably going to want to use an unpatched game for building/checking bots to ensure that they stay within the weight limits

first off, i want to make it clear that this patch doesn't eliminate 100% of all crashes/havoks related to small parts. it is however, a very noticeable improvement over what we currently have. also, bots with motors attached directly to a meshless part have a higher chance of agoding

one thing that I have found is that the no mesh gmfs can probably be changed is swapping to a 2d mesh for 10cm and angled extenders. it'll give them better hit detection in terms of stopping things phasing through them, and fme they have about equal stability as a collision meshless gmf. keeping the original 3d mesh at 0kgs also does work in helping with stability, but i don't think it's as effective as going full meshless/2d

also wedge edges have their original mesh at 0kgs. it works fine as they really aren't as bad the 10cms or angled pieces. those parts kind of need to go either 2d or full meshless

me and a few other will prolly keep playing around and see if can find something better to use so stay tuned ig

Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Badnik96 on November 02, 2019, 07:29:43 AM
you guys are funny
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on November 03, 2019, 04:53:43 PM
you guys are funny
clownworld forums


also update, bild's patch really doesn't work too well in actual battle. idk if it's because of how many parts fall off or what, but its not as promising as it was in testing. also it cause agod on quite a few bots (flatline, radpole, and a few other fairly well known bots icr).

more than likely the best way forwards is going to be enlarging the mesh is the best way to go for stability. also you don't have ****ed up weights from the 0kg parts, although the wedge edge might have to stay 0kgs with a mesh.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622901082900791326/640680276627816459/unknown.png)
this is about as small as it can go while being what i consider to be stable.

and it seem to work in actual battle
https://youtu.be/wkBpuxdDN2o
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: CodeSilver23 on November 03, 2019, 04:57:07 PM
You guys are the life support that keep this community breathing. Everybody please give a round of applause to these wonderfully insane people.  :claping
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: geese on November 03, 2019, 05:05:26 PM
You guys are the life support that keep this community breathing. Everybody please give a round of applause to these wonderfully insane people.  :claping
no man, its the BOOMERS who inject us with their wisdom from 50 years ago

also if anyone's wondering, i did try a rectangular mesh like the 20cms
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/640689310269571094/unknown.png)
it sadly wasn't that stable, and it might cause a bunch of bots to be unbalanced
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: TheRoboteer on November 03, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
You guys are the life support that keep this community breathing. Everybody please give a round of applause to these wonderfully insane people.  :claping
no man, its the BOOMERS who inject us with their wisdom from 50 years ago

also if anyone's wondering, i did try a rectangular mesh like the 20cms
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/640689310269571094/unknown.png)
it sadly wasn't that stable, and it might cause a bunch of bots to be unbalanced
TFW someone doesn't value my opinion on how a forum I haven't used in 5 years should be run

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Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: Nohpp on November 03, 2019, 07:33:28 PM
So glad my crippling autism was cured in time for this
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: geese on November 08, 2019, 06:46:40 AM
small update: this is the current WIP plan for the angled extenders and 10cm.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/642341105538695188/unknown.png)
essenitally this involves adding a 2nd set of angled parts with a different mesh to help improve external use compatibility
- top left: longer mesh with the same width as the default mesh
- bottom left: shorter and fatter mesh
- right: 10cms now have the mesh shifted downwards towards the default AP (as do the angled parts)
the base uncolored angles and 10cms probably aren't going to be changed as i know some people who don't use bfe still use them to do their internals

i will try to see if i can reduce the size of the meshes even more, but i don't think i can really go that much smaller with how heavily spammed these parts are

wedge edges are done like this. the actualy mesh ended up being a little longer than whats shown
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/622901082900791326/640806471864680448/unknown.png)
i may potentially make an alt set that's thicker on the y-axis as some bots like claymore that use them in conjunction with triangle plates have issues with the current mesh

i do realize that an alternate set of parts may cause backwards compatibility issues with people who don't have the pack installed, so right now this isn't final, and there is a very good chance that both meshes end up completely different

 finally, yes, some bots will have compatibly issues. however out of the 20 or so bots ive been testing with on parsec, only 2 of them actually needed to have modifications done, and said modifications took less than 5 minutes each (if you're wondering, both bots were non-bfe'd extender bots with relativity complex internal frames)
if people really cba to update their bots, or if you unironically think all of your bots are going to be unfixable, then do let me know so that i know that people are against this. i will say though that the patch does actually work in making extenderbots 10x more playable (ask plerco or kix who helped me test)
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: TheRoboteer on November 08, 2019, 10:20:28 AM
I'm fine with the prospect of having to update my bots personally. My worry previously was that I'd have to either do a complete rebuild or do it in a questionable legality way by swapping certain meshes back to the old ones, but if there's gonna be 2 sets of angle extenders with different collision meshes then it'll be fine.
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: geese on January 19, 2020, 07:07:25 AM
https://youtu.be/2W6aedMq6OA
ok forget the last few posts I found a better way to do it that doesn't mess up bot compatibility

btw wedge edges are stable at around 4kgs with default mesh
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Bildschirm on January 19, 2020, 10:28:09 AM
Activate Windows.

I'm keep reading about making the items heavier. Woudn't that be a big issue with compatibly?
I mean, even when we have two versions, woudn't nearly everyone ends up using the normal ones just because of the possibility to have a finished bot that cant drive because of the larger hitboxes?
Love the idea with the plate edges btw
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2020, 11:09:25 AM
Compatibility is overrated, it would be nice to force people to build sh** instead of entering ancient sh**-tier bots. Also would force people to download the correct version of the game.
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Hoppin on January 19, 2020, 01:31:26 PM
Compatibility is overrated, it would be nice to force people to build sh** instead of entering ancient sh**-tier bots. Also would force people to download the correct version of the game.

smh Paladin homie, never forget
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Badger on January 19, 2020, 02:43:56 PM
Compatibility is overrated, it would be nice to force people to build sh** instead of entering ancient sh**-tier bots. Also would force people to download the correct version of the game.

smh Paladin homie, never forget
🙏
Title: Re: DSL 2.31 in progress...
Post by: kaiser on January 19, 2020, 03:44:42 PM
So glad my crippling autism was cured in time for this


Hey, it's you
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: kix on January 19, 2020, 05:16:13 PM
Wtf, lets not go off topic.
The heavier parts might be a woke lvl 7 gamer idea. If it really improves the stability, release it so people test on a separate copy
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: geese on January 19, 2020, 06:34:24 PM
Activate Windows.

I'm keep reading about making the items heavier. Woudn't that be a big issue with compatibly?
I mean, even when we have two versions, woudn't nearly everyone ends up using the normal ones just because of the possibility to have a finished bot that cant drive because of the larger hitboxes?
Love the idea with the plate edges btw
i'm not going with the two version idea since i found out how to make the enlarged hitbox pass through the arena. tldr: the 10cm is a wheel and the enlarged mesh is a traction zone. there's a longer explanation over in the ow server

also people suck dixx and deserve to have their bots overweight if they can't shave off a few kgs from their bots. especially if they're a bfe flatmotor scrub.

that being said i will look into more options for the wedge edges
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: geese on January 20, 2020, 08:43:33 AM
https://youtu.be/VvXwyeQbb7s
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/668830978310930472/unknown.png)
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: Bildschirm on March 03, 2020, 12:28:50 AM
https://youtu.be/VvXwyeQbb7s
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/668830978310930472/unknown.png)
That would mean that you need to register every small component as a "Wheel" right? I changed for testing with bfe a "wheel" into a component. The traction zone got a solid hitbox.

Also i have no idea why the bot wont start gyroing since you give it essentially a larger box somewhere else but when it works, i'm down for it!

Please test this on spinners and see if the spinup times are changing. I just don't want someone to make a patch with all xomponents, only to notice that there are still problems with gravity.
Title: Re: DSL 2.31/crash patch in progress...
Post by: geese on March 03, 2020, 12:37:10 AM
https://youtu.be/VvXwyeQbb7s
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/668830978310930472/unknown.png)
That would mean that you need to register every small component as a "Wheel" right? I changed for testing with bfe a "wheel" into a component. The traction zone got a solid hitbox.

Also i have no idea why the bot wont start gyroing since you give it essentially a larger box somewhere else but when it works, i'm down for it!

Please test this on spinners and see if the spinup times are changing. I just don't want someone to make a patch with all xomponents, only to notice that there are still problems with gravity.
spinners work fine. they don't gyro since the component still has mass/an actual mesh

also you need to set an actual traction zone line in the txt, with the node name of whatever you want your traction zone to be.