Author Topic: The Mighty Reier's "legal monopoly on this meta" Ironforge extravaganza  (Read 35506 times)

Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #100 on: January 01, 2016, 05:40:11 PM »
i mean it just has no wedges so it will never win against a robot that does
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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #101 on: January 01, 2016, 08:57:17 PM »
time for some quick experimenting

had these on the table for ages but never really built them.
so like SnS ok. annoying and has no real counters. if they have strong enough drive they shove away pretty much everything and have tons of weight for weapons because the only other thing they need weight for is drive. they're basically rammers that always can hit you, especially if they use the 100% broken meltrybrain py. without meltybrain they're not too unbearable but with it they're just disgusting (its honestly just as much of an AI exploit as a powerful design, if not more so).
SO
how do you beat them consistently?
iunno
but
I HAVE SOME SUPER GIMMICKY ROBOTS THAT SORT OF WORK but more not really

prepare for hilarity (note: poorly built, these are very early prototypes)



its pretty dumb when you have to make a type of but that is designed to counter a single and only a single bot type to the detriment of effectiveness against all others. this is why sns are banned for the most part in IF (and popups are on shaky ground, but thats for another time).

anyway most of my testing was done against the HW SnS that comes with the pack which is brutal but sadly nowhere near as obnoxious as many other SnS. basically it is always able to flank you since it knocks your front end to the right. so I tried to come up with some goofy designs that negate this advantage with ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh success.
they're supposed to be able to face a SnS at all times in theory or at least make it so getting knocked away isn't so punishing. I just barely beat the SnS when I drove these, which means an AI is just straight up doomed since its too dumb to turn and go forward.

something like ramjet is one of the best bets to counter this design as far as I know. But even that design simply can't turn fast enough to always face a good SnS.

anyway, be glad that the bot type is mostly banned. as I've said before, its not the design of the SnS that makes it so powerful, its meltybrain that is borderline AI cheating because it removes the other bot's ability to move (and arguably isn't possible to drive like IRL).


« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:59:54 PM by Reier »
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Offline Badger

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #102 on: January 02, 2016, 12:24:34 AM »
They look interesting. I'm not too familiar with meltybrain, does anyone have a video showing what it does?
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline Conraaa

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #103 on: January 02, 2016, 04:03:18 AM »
Meltybrain is when a robot moves forward by spinning


Offline Badger

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #104 on: January 02, 2016, 06:17:48 AM »
Cool, thanks. Does it affect other bot's AI weirdly in RA2? Why is it considered cheap or cheating?
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline Naryar

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #105 on: January 02, 2016, 06:58:48 AM »
it's just that ironforge motors are very powerful for their weight, hence SnS are equally as powerful.

Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #106 on: January 02, 2016, 02:30:01 PM »
Cool, thanks. Does it affect other bot's AI weirdly in RA2? Why is it considered cheap or cheating?
its because RA2 AI is too dumb to rush down a flanking opponent. It will always try to face its opponent and THEN go forward instead of doing both like a human would. , but just start a match with the HW-SnS bot in the pack vs a non-SnS bot and you'll see what I mean. it basically immobilizes the opponent with stupidity, keeping them from attacking.

it's just that ironforge motors are very powerful for their weight, hence SnS are equally as powerful.
It's not just that, because then a rammer with similar drive and weapons would theoretically stand a chance (and does, if the SnS uses one of the old FBS pys) but it gets slaughtered too since it, again, can't turn and go forwards at the same time.
you never saw SnS as prevalent before meltybrain came out, because they just couldn't out-muscle many bots. No one thought they were OP then. But now since they don't have to and just flank, they're much more common.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 05:26:08 PM by Reier »
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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "certified genuine bigfoot hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #107 on: January 02, 2016, 09:32:29 PM »


BW for a challenge VS redace, i don't really mind if he sees it. kind of a similar idea to fung shui with the drive motor, a very stock approach. Ninja stars are really the only major thing I think needs a change in ironforge, the small ones have extremely high hp and the large have low for their weight imo. small ninja stars are very spammable for their insane hp. anyway



hey by the way, does anyone know the hitbox of the icepick in IF? is the normal only on the actual blade part or is it on the entire length of the weapon?
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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "slight halitosis trooper" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #108 on: February 26, 2016, 07:10:59 PM »
I paced the floor for hours. Still no closer to success than I had been in the weeks I'd been working on my magnum opus. I was close to complete despair. What if I had been wrong the whole time? what is my true purpose? Thoughts raced in my mind as I stared down at my feet again. Still pacing. I decided to sit down in a dark hole in my basement and think over my options. 1. I could finish this task I had been set on since my inception. 2. I could sink myself into a manic spiraling depression. I chose the latter.
It must have been months since I saw another human or since anyone other than CCTV saw me. I had eaten nothing but spam and gluten free foods for this entire week. Dragging myself out of bed, I wept for several straight hours about my failure to complete my task, my true purpose. Purposeless, I sank into my couch and turned on the tv. it was TLC. but suddenly, a glimmer of hope. I realized something that never had the impact to me that it did in this moment. this channel was complete garbage. and it made me realize that nothing, not even my failure, could be this bad. probably not even gluten free foods, though that's debatable. filled with a new power that I had not felt in ages, I turned off the tube and stood bolt upright. I would not let this challenge defeat me any longer. I had the power the whole time. In mere seconds I booted up RA2. I knew what I had to do. badger was going down.

actual story:
reier saw the challenge topic that badger talked to him about like 9 years ago that he forgot about so he sat in front of his computer and drew a random shape in the chassis screen and put random parts on it and it took like 15 minutes.
the end



anyway so this is my challenge bot vs trb (the good one) and basically I just threw it together haphazardly and it luckily isn't completely terrible unlike the ones I actually put thought and effort into :) It's pretty stable and the chassis (tite 3) doesn't get hit much. blah blah wedge is average whine blah whatever blah.
I actually really like using durable weapons in IF more than higher dmg ones, they outlast the weaker HP weps and it works out pretty good in this case. if you fight an HS with your VS you need all the help you can get.
its also 174.9 not 171.9



also heres my HW challenge bot vs redace (no wedges as per the rule) before he beat me with my own sun tzu strategies
tite 3. works ok. I was expecting him to likely enter a rammer or HS or something which this thing does pretty good against.


haven't built a lot lately to be honest. my time with RA2 comes and goes... I'll have a period eventually where I'll build a ton of great crap again, don't worry. i have some other generic robots but they're not really worth showcasing.


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Offline Badnik96

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "slight halitosis trooper" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2016, 07:48:40 PM »
Lazytrain looks really cool. Always been a fan of sleek designs like that one.

Offline Scrap Daddy

Re: The Mighty Reier's "slight halitosis trooper" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #110 on: March 02, 2016, 09:08:01 PM »
I really like Crazy Train. The sheet wedges look great.

Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "super battle in the world" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #111 on: April 05, 2016, 02:16:04 PM »
was lookin at click's undercutter and it made me want to make an undercutter that was good because they usually arent that good. messed with some setups and stuff and I wanted to go with a dual disk approach because why not (and i just want to use perms like that)



problem with this one though is the weapons are too close together up-down for opponents to fit in between to get their wheels cut off by the bottom one. and if they fit between anyway, the top one is just pointless. that one was basically a mediocre counter-rotating HS. so I messed with it a bit.



its not perfect yet by any means but it's getting there. basically the crushing teeth should hopefully de-weapon some nasty opponents while the undercutter does its thing. the top one has to be smaller (and the tribar helps) so the bottom disk can even reach. you actually don't need the top one to be very powerful either, because you don't want it knocking aside opponents, it just needs to be strong enough to move the tribar. I may actually remake it with a stronger bottom and weaker top motor. bottom disk motor may be a little on the weak side, it needs to spin with a bot on top of it after all.

anyway blah blah rambling but I like to show WIPs just as much as finished bots to show you guys my process. I'll keep working on this one.
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Offline Scrap Daddy

Re: The Mighty Reier's "super battle in the world" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #112 on: April 05, 2016, 06:41:48 PM »
I like the second one a lot. The weapon breaking tribar up top is a good idea.

Offline Clickbeetle

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "super battle in the world" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2016, 02:00:32 AM »
Nice, looks a bit messy but it's still a WIP so no big deal.

But why even make the top spin?  If the point is mostly to deweapon the opponent why not use static weapons?

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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "super battle in the world" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2016, 02:39:39 AM »
its also a backup weapon in case the undercutter is torn off, i may downgrade the motor though
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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "maid with the flaxen chest hair" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #115 on: January 07, 2017, 03:02:28 PM »
long time no see KIDDOS
join me on my endless crusade to find a good counter to popups that isn't some silly stilt VS.

so, popups. probably the consistently best robot type in ra2, assuming it has a good wedge. they're generally flat and have a ton of armor. in ironforge, they are less damaging compared to other mods, but make up for that by being even more durable. they are tough to beat, and not counting out-wedging them (hit or miss), they basically have one weakness. they have a very low weapon count.

so on today's episode of bob ross, we are going to try and make a happy little popup killer. and if by some happy accident we succeed, then by golly gee i'll be right more happy than a squirrel in a nut farm yall YEEEEEE



so this is sort of a successor to mango tango and that terrible gnome patrol robot a few pages back. basically the whole robot is covered in its weapon, with '88,600hp' of weps (more on this in a sec). also it has 50,200hp of armor if you count the tribars. if you look close you can see the entire chassis is actually covered in dark armor, its just hard to see because the armor is attached with the bigger side out.

i like the robot a lot but its got some major probs.

first, the weapons are attached in a suicidal way. half of the beaters are attached onto each other, so the effective hp of them is basically half that of the 88,600hp its supposed to be. more than most popups, but also factor in popups do way more damage and often hit in a single spot, so basically a popup just clears the weapons out of a tiny area and destroys that part. I want to attach them in a smarter way but I can't think of a decent setup that doesn't compromise something else. even still, beaters do like noooo damage so that alone basically kills the bot

second, its just not heavy enough. ideally the thing needs to sit fairly still on top of a popup and just grind it, but the thing is ironforge bursts all are trying their best DBZ impressions and knock you into orbit each time. by the time this thing stabilizes after bouncing several thousand times the popup just glides up and does it again. i thought about making it a MW to cheese the ironforge ballast system to basically get more ballast weight for the weight class:




but then you start running into the same problem when I tried to make aneurysm a MW. there is a lowest common denominator on size, which happens to be the 60cm disk. i can't make it any smaller without exposing the chassis and also the next size smaller wheel is wayyy too tiny even with the 40cm disk. so basically you got this big goofy flailing tin can that gets its wheels always knocked off cause there's no weight for side or chassis armor or even a gold 'you tried' sticker.



this one is a little bit better but then i realized it was basically a complete ripoff of one of CB's bots just with more armor and different (better imo) sideguards. still works a lot better than the one above though


eee
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Offline Reier

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "mr rogers vs the hulk" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #116 on: January 28, 2017, 10:52:22 PM »
love me all the ACTION!!!! in the showcases
ugh

plan b for anti-wedge strats
you tell me if this is on the side of "wow reier this is such a good concept" or "wow how is he mentally functional"

SO
the question is: how do you beat a superior wedge from the front?



 :dance:


yeah so
this thing kinda works but it is so awkward. and it has to be huge to fight MWs that are huge. I wish the wedge part could be a bit wider but the only wedge options in IF are small narrow skirts or huge goofy wide + long skirts with no short + wide options.

so I was like hey lets do a double version of this since 2 is better than one


boyyo was i wrong tho

these things are so bad. they are huge but somehow not big enough. the concept is solid but at this size the side wedges cannot close fast enough to make a difference. in DSL this might work better with the variety of components and slower drive.

so i had one last dummy idea up my sleeve


its supposed to turn quickly to the left when the front wedges hit each other  :dumb)
it cant even drive straight but actually its probably the best of these. but then again its not very fulfilling to win a race when all the other contestants are paraplegics
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Offline Thrackerzod

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Re: Re: The Mighty Reier's "mr rogers vs the hulk" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #117 on: January 29, 2017, 06:10:40 AM »
So, it's a side hammer, but the hammer is a wedge?

Any chance this could work as a LW design?  I would think that would allow it to be smaller, but it also has the problem of having less weight available, obviously.

i never quite know what to say about your bots dude

Offline Reier

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Re: Re: The Mighty Reier's "mr rogers vs the hulk" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #118 on: January 29, 2017, 02:48:43 PM »
So, it's a side hammer, but the hammer is a wedge?

Any chance this could work as a LW design?  I would think that would allow it to be smaller, but it also has the problem of having less weight available, obviously.

the idea is it the wedge hammer knocks the opponent's wedge in the air a bit, and it actually works when it hits. it's just hitting it that is a super pain, especially cause the bot can't really drive straight now

LW i just dont think in ironforge you are going to have enough weight since a beta is the only burst strong enough to move an arm like this
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Offline The Red Blur

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Re: The Mighty Reier's "mr rogers vs the hulk" Ironforge extravaganza
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2017, 06:34:14 AM »
love me all the ACTION!!!! in the showcases
ugh

plan b for anti-wedge strats
you tell me if this is on the side of "wow reier this is such a good concept" or "wow how is he mentally functional"

SO
the question is: how do you beat a superior wedge from the front?

(Image removed from quote.)

 :dance:


yeah so
this thing kinda works but it is so awkward. and it has to be huge to fight MWs that are huge. I wish the wedge part could be a bit wider but the only wedge options in IF are small narrow skirts or huge goofy wide + long skirts with no short + wide options.

so I was like hey lets do a double version of this since 2 is better than one


boyyo was i wrong tho

these things are so bad. they are huge but somehow not big enough. the concept is solid but at this size the side wedges cannot close fast enough to make a difference. in DSL this might work better with the variety of components and slower drive.

so i had one last dummy idea up my sleeve


its supposed to turn quickly to the left when the front wedges hit each other  :dumb)
it cant even drive straight but actually its probably the best of these. but then again its not very fulfilling to win a race when all the other contestants are paraplegics

This... Is actually a pretty cool idea. Theoretically, this could work. Maybe you could just use straight-up burst pistons, so it hits quicker? If you bound another button for a weapon, potentially you could knock the wedge up, and then hit the underside? I dunno, maybe I'm talking crap. Still, could be worth a shot.

EDIT: Of course, I'm talking more in LW terms, because I'm not sure it could work for MW, due to size differences.