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Robot Arena => Showcases => Ironforge TC Showcases => Topic started by: Redalert on November 27, 2018, 11:32:35 AM

Title: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 27, 2018, 11:32:35 AM
FIRST ironforge bot- meet RP1
LW, 6 pole spikes, 10 mm aluminum, STRONG drive.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on November 27, 2018, 11:52:27 AM
for future reference 200kg is MW in ironforge weightclasses.

FS are hard to make good in IF just because nearly every weapon has normals and you do not want normals on an FS if you can help it. razors and beaters/hammers are the only weapons that have none, but they either suffer from low HP or low damage so it's hard to get it to work well. You can work with weird inverted cone setups for your weapons but good luck.

in other words, your weapons will do almost no damage currently unless you just ram people. I'd recommend downgrading your weapon motors to the small ztek as I really think what you've got now is overkill. using the weight to add more weapons/external armor is much more important. if you are determined to do an FS, some sort of trapping setup with plows may be worth a try to help protect you and feed opponents into your weapons.

1 carbatt and 2 duracels is also the same weight as your current battery setup and will last longer. I would also recommend 2 ballasts or so since you can add up to 4 without it counting against your weightclass. it would help you not get knocked around so much with your fast drive.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 27, 2018, 12:02:16 PM
for future reference 200kg is MW in ironforge weightclasses.

FS are hard to make good in IF just because nearly every weapon has normals and you do not want normals on an FS if you can help it. razors and beaters/hammers are the only weapons that have none, but they either suffer from low HP or low damage so it's hard to get it to work well. You can work with weird inverted cone setups for your weapons but good luck.

in other words, your weapons will do almost no damage currently unless you just ram people. I'd recommend downgrading your weapon motors to the small ztek as I really think what you've got now is overkill. using the weight to add more weapons/external armor is much more important. if you are determined to do an FS, some sort of trapping setup with plows may be worth a try to help protect you and feed opponents into your weapons.

1 carbatt and 2 duracels is also the same weight as your current battery setup and will last longer. I would also recommend 2 ballasts or so since you can add up to 4 without it counting against your weightclass. it would help you not get knocked around so much with your fast drive.

BIG help. Thanks. Again, this is my first bot, so it's not perfect. Also, I rammed 2 bots with this bot so far, and they got a BIG ouchie. This is why it has powerful drive. I do see your point about lower weapon motors. Whenever I run this bot at full speed, and rotate the spinners, It'll flop around until I stop the drive.

About normals, Are you suggesting razors?
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on November 27, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
also why i suggested ballasts.

razors could work but I would attach them onto the ends of beaters probably since they will fall off fast. alternatively some users have used crushing teeth like this (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/497266218814799882/501084894521458703/unknown.png?width=597&height=503) but in a shallower cone. can't say how well it works cause I haven't made an FS with that setup but I doubt it's worse than razors.

ballasts will help your stability, as will wider wheelbase and/or side armor.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 27, 2018, 01:30:32 PM
also why i suggested ballasts.

razors could work but I would attach them onto the ends of beaters probably since they will fall off fast. alternatively some users have used crushing teeth like this (https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/497266218814799882/501084894521458703/unknown.png?width=597&height=503) but in a shallower cone. can't say how well it works cause I haven't made an FS with that setup but I doubt it's worse than razors.

ballasts will help your stability, as will wider wheelbase and/or side armor.

So this is what it sounds like- LW face spinner with ballists to keep front end down, car battery for power, crushing teeth on disks, and snowplows for protection and for luring opponents to the weapons.
Other than that, it sounds like the drive's perfect.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on November 27, 2018, 11:10:16 PM
What Reier showed is more of a top spinner / HS than an FS. He's basically saying it's not worth keeping the FS structure, though if you want to keep it an FS then the crushing teeth should be attached like this:
So that the crushing teeth (edit) are facing out (and you probably want 4 of them also). I'm pretty sure that crushing teeth do damage with point.
Or you could avoid this issue by using beater bars and/or razors.

Having a wedge is also probably a really good idea so that you could gutrip somewhat and not get hamstrung by bots that do have a wedge. (Cutting edges would be better for gutripping though and razors would be the best).

In general side plows are more important on designs with a narrow weapon. The FS isn't in dire need of them but they would definitely help (but at the same time don't put too much weight in that stuff). Your chassis armor could definitely be downgraded a little if you add this sort of protection.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 28, 2018, 07:25:00 AM
Okay! sounds good. I'll see if I can reboot the FS today.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 28, 2018, 12:02:32 PM
It's definitely better now. Lots of protection, 10 mm. Aluminum, 2 car batts, same powerful drive,  4 irons and a central razor tip.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on November 28, 2018, 01:22:35 PM
you know ironforge says where the weapon normals are in the description?
iron spikes are one of the worst weapons you can use in that setup. find something that does damage on the side like crushing teeth or use beaters + razors otherwise your weapon will do no damage like this setup. you also need way more weapons than you've got for a MW. you can drop the chassis armor by a decent amount to get the weight.

I'm also pretty sure you've lost your invertibility by adding that top panel. I still recommend ballasts too but its your choice.
the armor/width is an improvement as are the batteries. you can even swap out a car bat for a nifty if you need the weight cause you'll still have enough power.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 28, 2018, 01:33:44 PM
you know ironforge says where the weapon normals are in the description?
iron spikes are one of the worst weapons you can use in that setup. find something that does damage on the side like crushing teeth or use beaters + razors otherwise your weapon will do no damage like this setup. you also need way more weapons than you've got for a MW. you can drop the chassis armor by a decent amount to get the weight.

I'm also pretty sure you've lost your invertibility by adding that top panel. I still recommend ballasts too but its your choice.
the armor/width is an improvement as are the batteries. you can even swap out a car bat for a nifty if you need the weight cause you'll still have enough power.

Why are irons so bad? This new bot delivers 1000+ points of damage when it rams opponents with them. Could you show me what the crushing teeth look like?

It sounds like you're suggesting those crushing teeth and razors...

It's also still invertible :))))
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on November 28, 2018, 02:00:35 PM
irons have normals in ironforge.

the crushing teeth look like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/taVqE6D.png)

i'd also suggest angling your side trappers outwards and maybe sticking a couple of weapons on them to trap hs more effectively
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 28, 2018, 02:29:55 PM
irons have normals in ironforge.

the crushing teeth look like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/taVqE6D.png)

i'd also suggest angling your side trappers outwards and maybe sticking a couple of weapons on them to trap hs more effectively

It's 199.6 kg. Any add-ons will decrease effectiveness and will make it really underweight. I also don't see the image... As always, I appreciate the recomendations!
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 28, 2018, 02:41:44 PM
Better?
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on November 28, 2018, 06:21:16 PM
Better?
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I can't tell if this is serious or not but I'll link this again.
(https://i.imgur.com/OhE2cQW.png)
Have them facing outwards so that if you hit a component or a bot from the side it actually does damage.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 29, 2018, 08:30:26 AM
Got'it.

Anyway, I did more ironforge building, and developed some deadly designs...
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first 2 pics show the LW of my first team. It's very good and can even take on MW HS.- 1 mm. Titanium.
next 2- the MW. It's a popup with no collision meshes- 5 MM. Titanium.
final 2- the HW. it has quite a few blades, no collision meshes, and lots of protection- wedges, dark armor, 10 mm. Steel.

All three of these are legal.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 29, 2018, 08:37:27 AM
fights...
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 29, 2018, 12:03:15 PM
I just built a new LW HS...
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self-explanatory, 3 mm. Titanium. It has a self-righting mechanism.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on November 29, 2018, 04:06:13 PM
what weights are these
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 30, 2018, 08:41:30 AM
what weights are these

poker- LW
popup- MW
hammer- HW it's uuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnddddddddeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhtttttt:(

the HS I just posted is a LW.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on November 30, 2018, 11:18:07 AM
 ..
yea i can read what you posted above

the weights please not the weightclasses
just becase im pretty sure youre not using the ironforge weightclasses. ironforge doesnt use the same kgs for weightclasses that the other metas do
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on November 30, 2018, 12:42:19 PM
..
yea i can read what you posted above

the weights please not the weightclasses
just becase im pretty sure youre not using the ironforge weightclasses. ironforge doesnt use the same kgs for weightclasses that the other metas do

Good point. I'd love to do more Ironforge today, hopefully after all these reboots I'm doing in Stock...
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 03, 2018, 09:04:37 AM
Oh yeah, more ironforge bots!!!
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INSANE drum spinner.

This bot's got 3 hammers and insane power.
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HUGE. Literally. I's like HUGE and it is HUGE! (I mean it's really big by the second "HUGE")
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CMN- my best VS. 10 mm. Steel.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 03, 2018, 09:06:29 AM
I was testing a full-body spinner when.....
BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Spectacular hit.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 03, 2018, 02:12:46 PM
static wedges = no. dont do that ever

if you ever need 10mm steel to meet the weight limit, that means you can do more to make it better. make the wedges wider while you're at it
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 04, 2018, 10:41:54 AM
static wedges = no. dont do that ever

if you ever need 10mm steel to meet the weight limit, that means you can do more to make it better. make the wedges wider while you're at it

What's wrong with static wedges?

Also, 10 mm. Steel is THE BEST.



I don't mean to not follow your advice. I appreciate your advice, and I do try to follow it.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 04, 2018, 10:43:57 AM
Find instructions for my Wandering Spinner collection here!
https://gametechmods.com/forums/tutorials-and-tips/redalert's-guide-to-building-wandering-spinners/

My first Shell Spinner is shown below. 10 MM. Titanium and 212.8 kg.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 04, 2018, 04:14:06 PM
What's wrong with static wedges?

Also, 10 mm. Steel is THE BEST.

wedges need to be on a burst motor or similar in order to properly press into the ground and slide under chassis. a static component doesn't do this.

10mm steel is overkill on nearly every robot and you could be using the weight better elsewhere.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 05, 2018, 10:05:18 AM
What's wrong with static wedges?

Also, 10 mm. Steel is THE BEST.

wedges need to be on a burst motor or similar in order to properly press into the ground and slide under chassis. a static component doesn't do this.

10mm steel is overkill on nearly every robot and you could be using the weight better elsewhere.

...So wedge hinges are terrible. I'll keep that in mind.

Also, Probably getting fancy with extenders can take up weight in ways you would want.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 05, 2018, 12:01:20 PM
I just finished a LW poker/rammer hybrid. 10 mm. Titanium.
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I used a LOT of stacked steel blades to create the poking and ramming assemblies.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 05, 2018, 12:13:25 PM
...So wedge hinges are terrible. I'll keep that in mind.

no wedge hinges are fine, theyre burst motors with no power
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 05, 2018, 01:25:44 PM
...So wedge hinges are terrible. I'll keep that in mind.

no wedge hinges are fine, theyre burst motors with no power

Oh. O.K. So I can still use wedge hinges.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Billy5545 on December 05, 2018, 04:38:04 PM
...So wedge hinges are terrible. I'll keep that in mind.

no wedge hinges are fine, theyre burst motors with no power

Oh. O.K. So I can still use wedge hinges.
Yeah. While I'm not a master or fan of Standard, I saw that most builders often use hinges rather than bursts for their wedge there, so yeah, they are fine, both in DSL and IF
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 06, 2018, 08:35:59 AM
Completed LW poker download here!
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 06, 2018, 12:04:12 PM
New Bot.

It...Is...DANGEROUS.

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There are 8 blades on each hammer, plus flamethrowers. It's VERY well-defended.

Funny fact- it has a spiked "tail" that it can whip around. It also serves as a stabilizer.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 06, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
pretty sure youre overweight for shw, cut down the chassis armor and those backwards facing plows and see if you can't get it to 600
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 06, 2018, 01:41:57 PM
pretty sure youre overweight for shw, cut down the chassis armor and those backwards facing plows and see if you can't get it to 600

How's it a superheavyweight?
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: TheRoboteer on December 06, 2018, 02:10:02 PM
pretty sure youre overweight for shw, cut down the chassis armor and those backwards facing plows and see if you can't get it to 600

How's it a superheavyweight?
Weights in Ironforge are different to in other mods. There's a guide on the splash screen as the game loads in
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 06, 2018, 03:05:11 PM
pretty sure youre overweight for shw, cut down the chassis armor and those backwards facing plows and see if you can't get it to 600

How's it a superheavyweight?
because we told you like 4 times that the weight classes in ironforge are different than in other mods
it says right on the loading screen

LW - 125
MW - 200
HW - 400
SHW - 600
but you can add up to 4 ballasts (200) on top of any of them and it won't count to the weight limit
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 06, 2018, 03:07:48 PM
pretty sure youre overweight for shw, cut down the chassis armor and those backwards facing plows and see if you can't get it to 600

How's it a superheavyweight?
because we told you like 4 times that the weight classes in ironforge are different than in other mods
it says right on the loading screen

LW - 125
MW - 200
HW - 400
SHW - 600
but you can add up to 4 ballasts (200) on top of any of them and it won't count to the weight limit

Oh. Thank You. That means some of my HW are SHW.

I was basing it off of other bots like Clickbeetle's that are LW. and weigh 220 kg.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on December 06, 2018, 03:19:40 PM
(I put the weigtclasses here and then got ninjad  :( )

Your shell spinner does not have a shell. The point is to use the shell spinner plates to protect the chassis and then you can take advantage of the multiple connection points on the plates. Also, the pole spike (whatever its called in IF) on top is wasted weight. The batteries are good and although there are some gaps in the chassis I like the shape.

Your rammer: it's kind of hard to see what you did in the picture but it looks like you attached the steel blades off of each other. While this does let you get high amount of damage, if the middle blade is knock off then the whole array comes off. That will make the robot very inconsistent. It's better to use a weapon array in this scenario. Also, the cutting edges at the base should probably be angled forwards a bit.

Demolition team: There's a lot of armor in places where there shouldn't be. The backs of the corralling arms don't need to be protected (and its silly that they were protected when the wheels aren't). The top center snowplow is forward in a way that reduces the range of your weapon. Also the tail is better off being an extender. 10mm steel is just wasted weight. In any kind of battle (even against normally-weighted SHW) I would see this robot just loosing by points do to how little the offensive capabilities are for its weightclass. With the way the weapon is designed, if there's any kind of angle when it comes down and hits the opponent, only two blades are going to connect. It's better to go for a horizontal array of blades using the weapon arrays.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 07, 2018, 08:08:09 AM
It's always a good idea to fill your bot with armor. I've been owned by VS that attack the top. I destroyed many VS with this new design. You never know what type of bot you will be fighting...

Perhaps the shell spinner is really a cage spinner?

Anyway, wandering spinner that uses VIBRATION to hop around.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 07, 2018, 12:00:25 PM
Wandering Spinner that uses mini wheels for locomotion.
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5 mm. Titanium.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Plerco on December 07, 2018, 10:53:11 PM
Aren’t wandering spinners supposed to have one wheel or something
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 08:40:32 AM
Aren’t wandering spinners supposed to have one wheel or something

not always! they just have to be able to move forward and bounce off walls!

Anyway,
segment of a TINY multibot. Weighs 1/3 of a typical LW, but has 3/4 of the damage potential.
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Shell spinner. Good at absorbing solid hits.
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WaNdErInG SpInNeR ThAt BoUnCeS ArOuNd On An OfF-SeT SpInNeR. It'S VeRy PoWeRfUl.
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 12:38:22 PM
Redforge will be my first Ironforge AI pack. Here are the bots I've developed for it so far...

This MW is called, "Detonator", but should really be called "Pointless Bot." 5 mm. Steel and 288 kg.
It functions like a motorized barrel with spikes.
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LW HS on the same team. Rather fun build. 5 mm. Aluminum and 128 kg. (UNDERWEIGHT)
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 10, 2018, 01:00:17 PM
200kg is MW and 125kg is LW in ironforge so both are overweight. likewise your multibots from earlier would be over 125kg if combined. ballasts are the only things that don't count to the weight limit.

you really need to pay more attention to normals in IF and stock, many of your weapons do super low damage because the tips don't face in useful ways, eg your full-body drum thing. the blades won't hit anyone unless you rotate them 90 degrees. it says on the descriptions in IF if and where the weapons have normals.

on your recent bots they need some work to be effective. due to your confusion on the weightclasses I would hazard a guess that you are still fighting against bots lighter than yours which will skew your test results.

your LW multibot is overweight as I said, and that weapon could use some work. You definitely want to ditch the ninja star, they are trash as a dedicated HS weapon.

likewise the shell spinner has a very ineffective weapon setup with beaters (super low dmg) attached in a way that they don't hit well combined with being attached to fragile shell panels with no protection. The ninja star is a waste of weight, and you have a ton of batteries and again one drive motor when you need 2. I would recommend shrinking the entire bot including the chassis and shell and then adding more weapons that also extend further out.

the alarm clock from hell has waaaay too many batteries for a MW (?) and they are a huge waste of weight. weird and ineffective weapon placement. to be honest, i'm not sure you can salvage this. it's a fun concept but I don't think there is a good way to make it effective in combat. it will do almost no damage against a competent robot.

the full body drum thing again has very bizarre and ineffective weapon placement. you want to either avoid weapons with normals or at least put the normals actually facing the opponent so as much surface area as possible will hit them. you also probably want to widen your wheelbase a lot so that bots can actually fit between your wheels and get hit by your weapons. Most MWs are wider than your bot.

the LW on the bottom is probably the best of these but it also needs some major work. again, useless weapons in odd places, meaning the blades. very odd position of the ninja stars, and again ninja stars are garbage on HS. press f12 in the botlab to see their collision mesh. batteries are good this time. not really sure what to recommend, maybe turn it into more of a NWB juggler-type design. a non-invertible LW with exposed wheels and two weak HS and a flamethrower with no wedge and poor armor panels seems like a bit of a disaster.

-----

again, I'm trying to help. I wouldn't be so blunt if I saw you listened to advice better. but there's no need to be defensive, we've all had to start somewhere. it really is okay, you're not CONDEMNED if you don't make perfect bots every time after a month on the forum.
I'd say the main thing you should work on at the moment are less haphazard weapon setups (and to pay attention to the 125, 200, 400kg weight limits please!). try to make the normals hit as much surface area as possible on the opponent. you do have potential and I'm glad you post frequently.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 01:32:01 PM
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

okay. I'll remember that. Thanks.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on December 10, 2018, 05:07:22 PM
In general I find it hard to continue giving advice in this thread since the same mistakes are made over and over again with no respect to what we said in the past. For example I think the batteries are a pretty straight forward thing to understand. All spin motors draw only 10 amps, so a single black battery can power two of them. Additionally, black batteries have the best electotal meaning that there's no reason to use more of them than what is necessary to meet the amp requirement. However, you seem to have a tendency to stuff extra batteries wherever there is room to, without concerns to the extra weight or the excessive chassis sizes. If you want to build competitive bots that preform well against others then you have to start caring about how you spend weight and take heed to the advice that is littered throughout this thread. That means making the chassis smaller to meet your needs, instead of accepting its size and filling it up.

A short summery of the tendencies include excessive batteries, excessive armor, bad weapon placement, and useless extensions off the robot. For example, the "Shell Spinner" has way too many batteries, a huge chassis, a ninja star that will never do damage (while protecting worse than armor would), and beater bars placed in a way so that there's only about 10 cm of contact area between the plate and the farthest reaching point. Additionally, we only get the weightclass and armor on half the robots, we rarely get the full weight in kilograms, and there's this curious obsession with building one-wheeled spinners that wouldn't show controlled movement or ever be tournament legal, all of which makes it very difficult to provide advice. If you consider your robots "art" and are not interested in advice that would make them better (as suggested by disregarding the basic building guidelines we have laid out), then let us know. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to post more advice here if it means repeating what has already been said a dozen times. If you want to improve, then reread the comments in this thread (and your stock thread) and try to understand Reier's post above. Build by those rules, and we can go from there.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 10, 2018, 06:32:47 PM
agree heavily with uberpyro.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 07:58:32 PM
In general I find it hard to continue giving advice in this thread since the same mistakes are made over and over again with no respect to what we said in the past. For example I think the batteries are a pretty straight forward thing to understand. All spin motors draw only 10 amps, so a single black battery can power two of them. Additionally, black batteries have the best electotal meaning that there's no reason to use more of them than what is necessary to meet the amp requirement. However, you seem to have a tendency to stuff extra batteries wherever there is room to, without concerns to the extra weight or the excessive chassis sizes. If you want to build competitive bots that preform well against others then you have to start caring about how you spend weight and take heed to the advice that is littered throughout this thread. That means making the chassis smaller to meet your needs, instead of accepting its size and filling it up.

A short summery of the tendencies include excessive batteries, excessive armor, bad weapon placement, and useless extensions off the robot. For example, the "Shell Spinner" has way too many batteries, a huge chassis, a ninja star that will never do damage (while protecting worse than armor would), and beater bars placed in a way so that there's only about 10 cm of contact area between the plate and the farthest reaching point. Additionally, we only get the weightclass and armor on half the robots, we rarely get the full weight in kilograms, and there's this curious obsession with building one-wheeled spinners that wouldn't show controlled movement or ever be tournament legal, all of which makes it very difficult to provide advice. If you consider your robots "art" and are not interested in advice that would make them better (as suggested by disregarding the basic building guidelines we have laid out), then let us know. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to post more advice here if it means repeating what has already been said a dozen times. If you want to improve, then reread the comments in this thread (and your stock thread) and try to understand Reier's post above. Build by those rules, and we can go from there.

Protection, protection, and more protection. The weapon star is there for protection. Beater bars places as shown to achieve balance between longevity (after bouncing off walls) and damage.

Beater bars are chosen because of HP. This WS already deals up to 2,500+ hitpoints when it hits another bot.

Yes, I accept your advice, but that's Wandering Spinner Science. It's "Whacky" (pun intended.) There has to be plenty of batteries so the WS can keep full power, since it will not strike an opponent as often.

weapons. Action and reaction. Same thing.


Wandering Spinners are something that I've been doing for my whole RA2 life, and that's how I get to build them like this.

Big chassis= Stability- Depending on the fighting style...

And again, WS aren't built for tournaments.

Advice on original average bots- easy to take in. Wandering spinners- not so much.

One more thing- I tried typical battery setups- the WS DIED. half-way through the match.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 10, 2018, 10:42:00 PM
if you are so adamant in repeatedly ignoring sound advice there is no reason for us to give it anymore. wish you the best on your own. good luck.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 10, 2018, 10:57:24 PM
so what youre saying is you dont care about what we say because your fun robots are for fun and you dont want us criticizing them because you dont think we can make them better

despite the fact that reier and uberpyro are probably the two best active ironforge builders on the site

i just dont understand why its so hard to just listen
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 03:54:01 PM
so what youre saying is you dont care about what we say because your fun robots are for fun and you dont want us criticizing them because you dont think we can make them better

despite the fact that reier and uberpyro are probably the two best active ironforge builders on the site

i just dont understand why its so hard to just listen

I know they're the best IronForge builders. I can understand comments on standard bots, but not really on WS.
I don't also mean to reject anyone. I'm sorry.
I do care about your advice. I do know you can make them better.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 11, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
so the worst robots you build that are the ones that you also build the most are the ones you want the least amount of feedback on.

then why post them at all?
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 04:27:28 PM
so the worst robots you build that are the ones that you also build the most are the ones you want the least amount of feedback on.

then why post them at all?

They're previews of bots I just put instructions for on my guide to WS.

Here's a bot you can comment on-
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 04:29:57 PM
Double post- It's overkill on the batteries. Are the weapons good or not?
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on December 11, 2018, 11:26:29 PM
I don't know why I'm still trying but here's what comes to mind off the top of my head:

1) use edits instead of double posts
2) What is its intended weightclass? What is its armor and weight in kg?
3) Don't make robots have weaponry on both sides. You end up splitting your offensive capabilities and cutting your damage potential in half, assuming you can get more weapons to contact at a time when they are bunched together
4) Why is what appears to be a SHW+ rammer being driven by 4 slimbodies? That must be very slow for its bot type. Also make sure you're following the weightclasses laid out earlier in this thread.
5) Better to orient sledgehammers with the long edge facing the opponent to increase the hurtbox surface (so you can get multiple to contact at a time, a hinge for effe might help).
6) Don't use DSL bar for armor, especially when armor plates fit. DSL bar has a noticeably lower HP-to-kg ratio compared to armor panels, as is the case for all weapons. In simple words, you're using heavy things (weapons) when the lighter things (panels) actually have more HP.
7) Your robot only needs 2 black batteries. 1 if you make it 2 wheeled.
8) Make your robot 2-wheeled since its more weight efficient
9) I'm pretty sure 1 airtank is enough if you only have the icy things
10) What's the point with the heavy side armor if the top and bottom are exposed?
11) Don't bother having the side armor protect the sledgehammers, that just decreases their contact area and what they can hit.
12) While your chassis management demonstrates drastic improvement in this robot, I would suggest actually not having an I-shaped chassis. Chassis weight goes by surface area in this game (to be somewhat realistic) so more convex chassis shapes will always be more weight-to-area efficient.
13) Your robot, as it is, is extremely vulnerable to wedged robots. Add a wedge or think of some strategy to counter wedges (i.e. low weapons).
14) Attaching all of your weapons on dark extenders is inefficient when you could just attached them with baseplate anchors directly, and entertains the possibility that the entire array gets knocked off as a whole. I would use seperate baseplate anchors, unless you want to try eFFeing to mesh the weapons together.

That should be good for a start.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 12, 2018, 06:16:07 AM
I don't know why I'm still trying but here's what comes to mind off the top of my head:

1) use edits instead of double posts
2) What is its intended weightclass? What is its armor and weight in kg?
3) Don't make robots have weaponry on both sides. You end up splitting your offensive capabilities and cutting your damage potential in half, assuming you can get more weapons to contact at a time when they are bunched together
4) Why is what appears to be a SHW+ rammer being driven by 4 slimbodies? That must be very slow for its bot type. Also make sure you're following the weightclasses laid out earlier in this thread.
5) Better to orient sledgehammers with the long edge facing the opponent to increase the hurtbox surface (so you can get multiple to contact at a time, a hinge for effe might help).
6) Don't use DSL bar for armor, especially when armor plates fit. DSL bar has a noticeably lower HP-to-kg ratio compared to armor panels, as is the case for all weapons. In simple words, you're using heavy things (weapons) when the lighter things (panels) actually have more HP.
7) Your robot only needs 2 black batteries. 1 if you make it 2 wheeled.
8) Make your robot 2-wheeled since its more weight efficient
9) I'm pretty sure 1 airtank is enough if you only have the icy things
10) What's the point with the heavy side armor if the top and bottom are exposed?
11) Don't bother having the side armor protect the sledgehammers, that just decreases their contact area and what they can hit.
12) While your chassis management demonstrates drastic improvement in this robot, I would suggest actually not having an I-shaped chassis. Chassis weight goes by surface area in this game (to be somewhat realistic) so more convex chassis shapes will always be more weight-to-area efficient.
13) Your robot, as it is, is extremely vulnerable to wedged robots. Add a wedge or think of some strategy to counter wedges (i.e. low weapons).
14) Attaching all of your weapons on dark extenders is inefficient when you could just attached them with baseplate anchors directly, and entertains the possibility that the entire array gets knocked off as a whole. I would use seperate baseplate anchors, unless you want to try eFFeing to mesh the weapons together.

That should be good for a start.

Okay! sounds like this-
>reboot the rammer to use all baseplate anchors
>add a wedge
>better motors
>make the robot only 2wd
>add armor everywhere
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 12, 2018, 08:12:16 AM
Okay, I'm upgrading the rammer. SO far, this is how it is.
>2 car batts
>twinbird drive with fat tires
>sledgehammers on naseplate anchors.

working on- armor and wedges.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 12, 2018, 09:58:03 AM
dude no one cares if youre working on it just post the bot when it's finished
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 12, 2018, 12:01:33 PM
Ok.

Here's the rebooted bot. 399.7 kg. I think...
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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: UberPyro on December 12, 2018, 12:16:30 PM
Hey, that actually looks half decent. You can spread the wedges out a bit (and also light skirts tend to be fine). Having some regular hammers is also an idea. I'm not sure what the orange batts are going but other than that this looks relatively good.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 12, 2018, 12:55:51 PM
Hey, that actually looks half decent. You can spread the wedges out a bit (and also light skirts tend to be fine). Having some regular hammers is also an idea. I'm not sure what the orange batts are going but other than that this looks relatively good.

Well, that's music to my ears...

Anyway, I looked at the Ironforge 2.2 AI, and all the HW bots weigh around 600kg.

Also, new HW popup. Blades on both extenders and other blades.
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New WS in my building guide.
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It's VERY good.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Badnik96 on December 12, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
they weigh 600 because theyre using their 200kg of free ballasts

Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Reier on December 12, 2018, 04:24:05 PM
my goodness how hard is it to read

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Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: geese on December 12, 2018, 04:52:55 PM
now I see why 123 committed seppuku

also the majority of the bots in the default IF AI are meant to be IRL. they're not really a good measurement of a bots strengths
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 13, 2018, 07:09:45 AM
Uhh... one of the HW bots in Party Time doesn't have any ballasts, and it weighs 601.0 kg.

...so that popup's a SHW. So what...
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 13, 2018, 12:32:07 PM
New bot for RedForge Ai...
remove the 2 ballasts, and it weighs 121.0 kg.
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5 mm. Aluminum, I think...

I wanted to make a bot that would appear similar to bots like the ones in Robot Wars. It's better than the wammers in the AI that came with IronForge because of the sheer amount of weight at the front of the bot.
Title: Re: Redalert's IronTech
Post by: Redalert on December 14, 2018, 11:54:04 AM
Okay, I wanted a realistic bot, so I threw this drum spinner together in about 20 minutes.
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Problems-
> 3 ballasts make it weigh 350 kg. and make it slow
> Drum only hits opponents if it strikes an edge or incline.

Improvements- better drum setup.

MW flipper for RedForge. Pretty much all the other bots are much tougher than this bot, so if you want a weak opponent? Fight this bot!
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3 mm. Titanium, and slightly damaging.