Author Topic: Redalert's IronTech  (Read 862 times)

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2018, 08:08:09 AM »
It's always a good idea to fill your bot with armor. I've been owned by VS that attack the top. I destroyed many VS with this new design. You never know what type of bot you will be fighting...

Perhaps the shell spinner is really a cage spinner?

Anyway, wandering spinner that uses VIBRATION to hop around.
 

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 12:00:25 PM »
Wandering Spinner that uses mini wheels for locomotion.
 

5 mm. Titanium.

Offline Plerco

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 10:53:11 PM »
Aren’t wandering spinners supposed to have one wheel or something
Notable Tournament Stuff, because ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2018, 08:40:32 AM »
Aren’t wandering spinners supposed to have one wheel or something

not always! they just have to be able to move forward and bounce off walls!

Anyway,
segment of a TINY multibot. Weighs 1/3 of a typical LW, but has 3/4 of the damage potential.
 


Shell spinner. Good at absorbing solid hits.
 


WaNdErInG SpInNeR ThAt BoUnCeS ArOuNd On An OfF-SeT SpInNeR. It'S VeRy PoWeRfUl.
 

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2018, 12:38:22 PM »
Redforge will be my first Ironforge AI pack. Here are the bots I've developed for it so far...

This MW is called, "Detonator", but should really be called "Pointless Bot." 5 mm. Steel and 288 kg.
It functions like a motorized barrel with spikes.
 


LW HS on the same team. Rather fun build. 5 mm. Aluminum and 128 kg. (UNDERWEIGHT)
 

Offline Reier

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2018, 01:00:17 PM »
200kg is MW and 125kg is LW in ironforge so both are overweight. likewise your multibots from earlier would be over 125kg if combined. ballasts are the only things that don't count to the weight limit.

you really need to pay more attention to normals in IF and stock, many of your weapons do super low damage because the tips don't face in useful ways, eg your full-body drum thing. the blades won't hit anyone unless you rotate them 90 degrees. it says on the descriptions in IF if and where the weapons have normals.

on your recent bots they need some work to be effective. due to your confusion on the weightclasses I would hazard a guess that you are still fighting against bots lighter than yours which will skew your test results.

your LW multibot is overweight as I said, and that weapon could use some work. You definitely want to ditch the ninja star, they are trash as a dedicated HS weapon.

likewise the shell spinner has a very ineffective weapon setup with beaters (super low dmg) attached in a way that they don't hit well combined with being attached to fragile shell panels with no protection. The ninja star is a waste of weight, and you have a ton of batteries and again one drive motor when you need 2. I would recommend shrinking the entire bot including the chassis and shell and then adding more weapons that also extend further out.

the alarm clock from hell has waaaay too many batteries for a MW (?) and they are a huge waste of weight. weird and ineffective weapon placement. to be honest, i'm not sure you can salvage this. it's a fun concept but I don't think there is a good way to make it effective in combat. it will do almost no damage against a competent robot.

the full body drum thing again has very bizarre and ineffective weapon placement. you want to either avoid weapons with normals or at least put the normals actually facing the opponent so as much surface area as possible will hit them. you also probably want to widen your wheelbase a lot so that bots can actually fit between your wheels and get hit by your weapons. Most MWs are wider than your bot.

the LW on the bottom is probably the best of these but it also needs some major work. again, useless weapons in odd places, meaning the blades. very odd position of the ninja stars, and again ninja stars are garbage on HS. press f12 in the botlab to see their collision mesh. batteries are good this time. not really sure what to recommend, maybe turn it into more of a NWB juggler-type design. a non-invertible LW with exposed wheels and two weak HS and a flamethrower with no wedge and poor armor panels seems like a bit of a disaster.

-----

again, I'm trying to help. I wouldn't be so blunt if I saw you listened to advice better. but there's no need to be defensive, we've all had to start somewhere. it really is okay, you're not CONDEMNED if you don't make perfect bots every time after a month on the forum.
I'd say the main thing you should work on at the moment are less haphazard weapon setups (and to pay attention to the 125, 200, 400kg weight limits please!). try to make the normals hit as much surface area as possible on the opponent. you do have potential and I'm glad you post frequently.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 03:26:20 PM by Reier »

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2018, 01:32:01 PM »
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

okay. I'll remember that. Thanks.

Offline UberPyro

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2018, 05:07:22 PM »
In general I find it hard to continue giving advice in this thread since the same mistakes are made over and over again with no respect to what we said in the past. For example I think the batteries are a pretty straight forward thing to understand. All spin motors draw only 10 amps, so a single black battery can power two of them. Additionally, black batteries have the best electotal meaning that there's no reason to use more of them than what is necessary to meet the amp requirement. However, you seem to have a tendency to stuff extra batteries wherever there is room to, without concerns to the extra weight or the excessive chassis sizes. If you want to build competitive bots that preform well against others then you have to start caring about how you spend weight and take heed to the advice that is littered throughout this thread. That means making the chassis smaller to meet your needs, instead of accepting its size and filling it up.

A short summery of the tendencies include excessive batteries, excessive armor, bad weapon placement, and useless extensions off the robot. For example, the "Shell Spinner" has way too many batteries, a huge chassis, a ninja star that will never do damage (while protecting worse than armor would), and beater bars placed in a way so that there's only about 10 cm of contact area between the plate and the farthest reaching point. Additionally, we only get the weightclass and armor on half the robots, we rarely get the full weight in kilograms, and there's this curious obsession with building one-wheeled spinners that wouldn't show controlled movement or ever be tournament legal, all of which makes it very difficult to provide advice. If you consider your robots "art" and are not interested in advice that would make them better (as suggested by disregarding the basic building guidelines we have laid out), then let us know. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to post more advice here if it means repeating what has already been said a dozen times. If you want to improve, then reread the comments in this thread (and your stock thread) and try to understand Reier's post above. Build by those rules, and we can go from there.

Offline Reier

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2018, 06:32:47 PM »
agree heavily with uberpyro.

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2018, 07:58:32 PM »
In general I find it hard to continue giving advice in this thread since the same mistakes are made over and over again with no respect to what we said in the past. For example I think the batteries are a pretty straight forward thing to understand. All spin motors draw only 10 amps, so a single black battery can power two of them. Additionally, black batteries have the best electotal meaning that there's no reason to use more of them than what is necessary to meet the amp requirement. However, you seem to have a tendency to stuff extra batteries wherever there is room to, without concerns to the extra weight or the excessive chassis sizes. If you want to build competitive bots that preform well against others then you have to start caring about how you spend weight and take heed to the advice that is littered throughout this thread. That means making the chassis smaller to meet your needs, instead of accepting its size and filling it up.

A short summery of the tendencies include excessive batteries, excessive armor, bad weapon placement, and useless extensions off the robot. For example, the "Shell Spinner" has way too many batteries, a huge chassis, a ninja star that will never do damage (while protecting worse than armor would), and beater bars placed in a way so that there's only about 10 cm of contact area between the plate and the farthest reaching point. Additionally, we only get the weightclass and armor on half the robots, we rarely get the full weight in kilograms, and there's this curious obsession with building one-wheeled spinners that wouldn't show controlled movement or ever be tournament legal, all of which makes it very difficult to provide advice. If you consider your robots "art" and are not interested in advice that would make them better (as suggested by disregarding the basic building guidelines we have laid out), then let us know. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to post more advice here if it means repeating what has already been said a dozen times. If you want to improve, then reread the comments in this thread (and your stock thread) and try to understand Reier's post above. Build by those rules, and we can go from there.

Protection, protection, and more protection. The weapon star is there for protection. Beater bars places as shown to achieve balance between longevity (after bouncing off walls) and damage.

Beater bars are chosen because of HP. This WS already deals up to 2,500+ hitpoints when it hits another bot.

Yes, I accept your advice, but that's Wandering Spinner Science. It's "Whacky" (pun intended.) There has to be plenty of batteries so the WS can keep full power, since it will not strike an opponent as often.

weapons. Action and reaction. Same thing.


Wandering Spinners are something that I've been doing for my whole RA2 life, and that's how I get to build them like this.

Big chassis= Stability- Depending on the fighting style...

And again, WS aren't built for tournaments.

Advice on original average bots- easy to take in. Wandering spinners- not so much.

One more thing- I tried typical battery setups- the WS DIED. half-way through the match.

Offline Reier

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2018, 10:42:00 PM »
if you are so adamant in repeatedly ignoring sound advice there is no reason for us to give it anymore. wish you the best on your own. good luck.

Offline Badnik96

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2018, 10:57:24 PM »
so what youre saying is you dont care about what we say because your fun robots are for fun and you dont want us criticizing them because you dont think we can make them better

despite the fact that reier and uberpyro are probably the two best active ironforge builders on the site

i just dont understand why its so hard to just listen

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 03:54:01 PM »
so what youre saying is you dont care about what we say because your fun robots are for fun and you dont want us criticizing them because you dont think we can make them better

despite the fact that reier and uberpyro are probably the two best active ironforge builders on the site

i just dont understand why its so hard to just listen

I know they're the best IronForge builders. I can understand comments on standard bots, but not really on WS.
I don't also mean to reject anyone. I'm sorry.
I do care about your advice. I do know you can make them better.

Offline Reier

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 04:19:12 PM »
so the worst robots you build that are the ones that you also build the most are the ones you want the least amount of feedback on.

then why post them at all?

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 04:27:28 PM »
so the worst robots you build that are the ones that you also build the most are the ones you want the least amount of feedback on.

then why post them at all?

They're previews of bots I just put instructions for on my guide to WS.

Here's a bot you can comment on-
 


Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 04:29:57 PM »
Double post- It's overkill on the batteries. Are the weapons good or not?

Offline UberPyro

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 11:26:29 PM »
I don't know why I'm still trying but here's what comes to mind off the top of my head:

1) use edits instead of double posts
2) What is its intended weightclass? What is its armor and weight in kg?
3) Don't make robots have weaponry on both sides. You end up splitting your offensive capabilities and cutting your damage potential in half, assuming you can get more weapons to contact at a time when they are bunched together
4) Why is what appears to be a SHW+ rammer being driven by 4 slimbodies? That must be very slow for its bot type. Also make sure you're following the weightclasses laid out earlier in this thread.
5) Better to orient sledgehammers with the long edge facing the opponent to increase the hurtbox surface (so you can get multiple to contact at a time, a hinge for effe might help).
6) Don't use DSL bar for armor, especially when armor plates fit. DSL bar has a noticeably lower HP-to-kg ratio compared to armor panels, as is the case for all weapons. In simple words, you're using heavy things (weapons) when the lighter things (panels) actually have more HP.
7) Your robot only needs 2 black batteries. 1 if you make it 2 wheeled.
8) Make your robot 2-wheeled since its more weight efficient
9) I'm pretty sure 1 airtank is enough if you only have the icy things
10) What's the point with the heavy side armor if the top and bottom are exposed?
11) Don't bother having the side armor protect the sledgehammers, that just decreases their contact area and what they can hit.
12) While your chassis management demonstrates drastic improvement in this robot, I would suggest actually not having an I-shaped chassis. Chassis weight goes by surface area in this game (to be somewhat realistic) so more convex chassis shapes will always be more weight-to-area efficient.
13) Your robot, as it is, is extremely vulnerable to wedged robots. Add a wedge or think of some strategy to counter wedges (i.e. low weapons).
14) Attaching all of your weapons on dark extenders is inefficient when you could just attached them with baseplate anchors directly, and entertains the possibility that the entire array gets knocked off as a whole. I would use seperate baseplate anchors, unless you want to try eFFeing to mesh the weapons together.

That should be good for a start.

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #57 on: Today at 06:16:07 AM »
I don't know why I'm still trying but here's what comes to mind off the top of my head:

1) use edits instead of double posts
2) What is its intended weightclass? What is its armor and weight in kg?
3) Don't make robots have weaponry on both sides. You end up splitting your offensive capabilities and cutting your damage potential in half, assuming you can get more weapons to contact at a time when they are bunched together
4) Why is what appears to be a SHW+ rammer being driven by 4 slimbodies? That must be very slow for its bot type. Also make sure you're following the weightclasses laid out earlier in this thread.
5) Better to orient sledgehammers with the long edge facing the opponent to increase the hurtbox surface (so you can get multiple to contact at a time, a hinge for effe might help).
6) Don't use DSL bar for armor, especially when armor plates fit. DSL bar has a noticeably lower HP-to-kg ratio compared to armor panels, as is the case for all weapons. In simple words, you're using heavy things (weapons) when the lighter things (panels) actually have more HP.
7) Your robot only needs 2 black batteries. 1 if you make it 2 wheeled.
8) Make your robot 2-wheeled since its more weight efficient
9) I'm pretty sure 1 airtank is enough if you only have the icy things
10) What's the point with the heavy side armor if the top and bottom are exposed?
11) Don't bother having the side armor protect the sledgehammers, that just decreases their contact area and what they can hit.
12) While your chassis management demonstrates drastic improvement in this robot, I would suggest actually not having an I-shaped chassis. Chassis weight goes by surface area in this game (to be somewhat realistic) so more convex chassis shapes will always be more weight-to-area efficient.
13) Your robot, as it is, is extremely vulnerable to wedged robots. Add a wedge or think of some strategy to counter wedges (i.e. low weapons).
14) Attaching all of your weapons on dark extenders is inefficient when you could just attached them with baseplate anchors directly, and entertains the possibility that the entire array gets knocked off as a whole. I would use seperate baseplate anchors, unless you want to try eFFeing to mesh the weapons together.

That should be good for a start.

Okay! sounds like this-
>reboot the rammer to use all baseplate anchors
>add a wedge
>better motors
>make the robot only 2wd
>add armor everywhere

Offline Redalert

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #58 on: Today at 08:12:16 AM »
Okay, I'm upgrading the rammer. SO far, this is how it is.
>2 car batts
>twinbird drive with fat tires
>sledgehammers on naseplate anchors.

working on- armor and wedges.

Offline Badnik96

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Re: Redalert's IronTech
« Reply #59 on: Today at 09:58:03 AM »
dude no one cares if youre working on it just post the bot when it's finished