gametechmods
Robot Arena => Showcases => Ironforge TC Showcases => Topic started by: The Red Blur on August 17, 2015, 05:01:20 PM
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well, hey everyone, I'm the Red Blur, but you all can call me Chris, if you want, I'm still a total noob for building robots, and only came across this brilliant program thanks to one of my friends, you may know him as 'Ecolusian' around these parts. Anyway, onto my bot:
Red Blur Beta (don't ask what happened to Alpha * shudders*)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/46243red blur beta.png)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/50790red blur beta inside.png)
This is my first proper bot, it has titanium 1 armour
I'm not sure what category the robot fits into, but I use piston-powered blades to stab at my opponent whilst also blasting them with two banhammers attached to either side, this enormous amount of air required is supplied through three air tanks at the back.
There is one ballast at the back of the vehicle
Any tips to make this better?
~Red
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Oy vey.
Another shot of the inside wouldn't go amiss.
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Look around at other showcases (Geice, Mr. AS, RedAce, 090901) to get the idea of what a proper machine should look like.
In general building, build your chassis around your components. That means try to minimalise the amount of empty space in your robot.
You also have a lot of flimsy extender work. Look at Naryar's extender work tutorial. Although it's in DSL, the basis still stands.
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I'll try to get another shot of the inside next time I get to my computer (on mobile rn)
Is it possible you could give me a link to this extender tutorial?
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https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=17300.0 (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=17300.0)
It's in here, along with plenty of other useful information and guidance.
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So, from what Im getting here, I should use just one baseplate with multiple extenders to attach both ot the banhammers and pistons together?
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Actually, looking at it again, I don't think you even need any extenders in the first place. Also, there are way too many batteries in there. Look at the showcases I mentioned earlier and this very helpful guide (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=17938).
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I need the extenders, as the burst pistons cant be mounted to a baseplate directly, and the banhammers would be too close to the chasis without them. The ridiculous amount of batteries is because I need more amps to make the actual robot faster whilst giving it a decent amount of battery life.
So, is there any actual IMPROVEMENTS you could suggest, rather Tha speculating on what is wrong with it, as we all know it wont be great, considering its my first bot.
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That's not how it works. You have four motors, which all draw 10 amps - 40 amps total - you want to have them last the fight, so put in 50 - 60 amps of batteries.
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Is that how it works? Makes sense, I guess. Sorry, being an absolute total noob. :baffled:
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So, is there any actual IMPROVEMENTS you could suggest, rather Tha speculating on what is wrong with it, as we all know it wont be great, considering its my first bot.
How do you expect to improve something if you don't see the weaknesses on it? You can't ask for advice without critiscm.
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Sorry, it was late and I was really irritable...
Now, if you think there is something wrong with the extenders, point out what could be wrong with them, please.
~Red
EDIT: I have made some changes to my bot, removing the batteries and replacing them with two diehards and a pack of duracell to bring it up to 50 amps.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/82730Beta inside 2.png)
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First off, you should be picking a weightclass to aim for. Without ballasts, that bot should weigh somewhere just below 200 or 400kg to be a MW or HW.
I would also very much recommend getting rid of the extenders on your pistons and just moving the pistons forward - You're wasting weight there which could be used on more weaponry on the piston itself. Speaking of, consider using a weapon array on each piston to attach up to 5 weapons to each piston, which will really enhance your damage potential and weapon durability.
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I'm probably gonna aim for a middleweight, as I want it to be relatively speedy, so I'll try removing the extenders on the pistons to try and shave off some weight (plus, they broke offf way too easily). I'll be back with some pics later.
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sorry this took so long. been really busy. anyway, here are my changes so far.
-I have moved the pistons forward, reducing the weight taken up by extenders.
-I have centralised the weight to help with stability
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/39612robot.png)
However, as we can see, the actual bot is still 46.9 kg too heavy. Has anyone here got any ideas to be able to shave off some more weight?
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You could probably just use one piston, with a sideways extender (or weapon array or something) to hold the spikes. You could probably also swap to a two wheel drive system, using better motors and wheels, as that would let you get away with less batteries (all spin motors take the same amount of power, because Robot Arena is a really good game.) Also, the chassis doesn't need those spike things in the back, but fixing that would mean starting over, and they look kinda cool, so whatever. If you do redesign the chassis, though, try to make it shorter (as in, height), and then make the robot invertible with some bigger wheels. A shorter chassis would also help save weight.
Wait and see if anyone tells me that I don't know what I'm talking about before you do any of that, though.
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you can press f11 ingame and it saves a bmp to your screenshots folder
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Gee, helpful, Reier. I just crop it to save everyone time when looking at the bot.
I may think about redesigning the chassis, although I may keep the back design, because I want form as well as function, although, I've never thought about a sideways extender.
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You could probably just use one piston, with a sideways extender (or weapon array or something) to hold the spikes. You could probably also swap to a two wheel drive system, using better motors and wheels, as that would let you get away with less batteries (all spin motors take the same amount of power, because Robot Arena is a really good game.) Also, the chassis doesn't need those spike things in the back, but fixing that would mean starting over, and they look kinda cool, so whatever. If you do redesign the chassis, though, try to make it shorter (as in, height), and then make the robot invertible with some bigger wheels. A shorter chassis would also help save weight.
Wait and see if anyone tells me that I don't know what I'm talking about before you do any of that, though.
All of this is true. However, make the blades shorter and use weapon arrays connected by a extender to attach them. Also, the flamers still will not be able to do much while the bot is pushing the enemy away with the spikes. A side hammer configuration may work if you externally mount Snappers.
And no need to snap at Reier, he was merely making a joke which also had a point: Your cropping is kinda arse. Just do a small sort of splash design: 1 inside shot, 1 outside shot from profile section of bot lab, carefully cut out the pictures (just the bot view, not anything else other than Name and Weight from the profile.) and stick the Name, Weight and write in the armor, then save as PNG and go.
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Wait... There are specific snapper and weapon array pieces? -_-' God, I am such a noob
I'm not sure what you mean by 'flamers", though. Do you mean the banhammers?
Also. I'm not exactly sure what you asked me to do with the picture files. Some sort of splash design? Uh...
Forgive me for being slightly dumb -_-"
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Wait... There are specific snapper and weapon array pieces? -_-' God, I am such a noob
I'm not sure what you mean by 'flamers", though. Do you mean the banhammers?
Also. I'm not exactly sure what you asked me to do with the picture files. Some sort of splash design? Uh...
Forgive me for being slightly dumb -_-" NO. joking
Snappers are a kind of burst motor, as well as DDT's and Beta's.
Weapon arrays are parts from the extender section which allows you to attach up 3-5 parts onto a single array. They help you attach more weapons to things. Use a 60 cm extender, attach with middle side attach point, use opposite side to attach arrays then attach blades to the arrays.
Flamers are terms from DSL when there was a flamethrower. They still can be called that, but yes, they are replaced in Ironforge by the Ice Cannon and Banhammer that you are using.
Heres a sort of example of what i mean. Yes, this is one of my bots but shh....
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/46067Tombsclone.png) Put a inside shot and a outside shot in one major picture. Add weight, name and like I forgot to do, armour.
Also, thats how a weapon array is used. It attaches the knifes to the drums.
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Hi all, an update for all of you. I have decided to scrap the red blur beta mk. II for a new robot, this robot features burst motors, a first for me, and has a self-righting mechanism of my own design. More on it, as soon as possible. THE RED BLUR BETA MK. III IS BORN!
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i assume this is your bot with the new swag custom parts?
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And now, for the main event....
This is my new bot, Red Blur Mk. III, featuring spinners and snappers (including some custom battery and swordblade skins).
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/86494halp.png)
In this bot, treads are used to move, as, frankly, they're much smoother to move with.
The snappers are used to move two drums forwards, these drums have three custom skinned swordblades on each.
There is also a self-righting mechanism on the back, featuring a snapper and a 60cm light extender. Yes, I have tested it. Yes, it does work.
So, any improvements to make here?
~Red
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So it's like a sidehammer/horizontal spinner? That's neat. What's the ninja star for?
If you could find the weight, some wedges could probably help you trap stuff more easily.
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the ninja star is a sort of spinning grinder, to use a back-up, if the extenders break on my main weapons.
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you could lower your bot a bit, also whats the ninja star for?
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That chassis is huge, you could shrink that down a whole lot to save weight- when you do that the srimech shouldn't be necessary since you can make it invertible. The motors are very exposed too and if you're going for standard realism those arms going right through the batteries and such wouldn't be allowed in a tournament .
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Make it invertible and put your snappers at the front of the bot.
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-motors are exposed.
-Chassis is too big.
Okay. Got it.
One thing I must mention, though. WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH MAKING BOTS INVERTIBLE? I mean, it just makes it more difficult to drive, as it flips the controls.
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because if its not you lose when it gets flipped
and invertibility is better than a srimech because it weighs less so you can use the weight for other things
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because if its not you lose when it gets flipped
and invertibility is better than a srimech because it weighs less so you can use the weight for other things
Exactly this. You just adapt to slightly off controls. Or just make reverse controls for when you are upside down.
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first, welcome to the showcases. now for advice...
second build :needs a less huge chassis (by that you gain weight to be used in drive, batteries, or weapons, although it doesn't need batteries) and a skin so it's not a big red thing. the frontal weapon is random and uneffective, go for horizontal/vertical ninja stars attached properly (aka directly to the motor), or hammers.
first build: hammers have been added in haste but that's your first build. you'll learn to use weapons effectively later. Anyways please make that bot invertible so it can run if flipped on it's back.
on that point about using weapons effectively... when you add weapons you need to think about the design of your weapon, and how the weapon works with your other weapon systems, if you have some.
right now I don't think this ninja star on anglers is going to work. anglers are somewhat weak and fragile anyways, and risk being ripped off before the weapon.
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I personally dont see the point in this design. Seems too large for a bot and will get battered, the skin is flat red and makes me want to commit suicide via Judas Cradle, and the design seems like the hybrid has no synergy. If you did this, Id say have ninja stars and grind down the opponents and have them rotate towards your bot while another weapon attacks it further.
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the skin is flat red and makes me want to commit suicide via Judas Cradle
that was unneeded >:-(
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, and the design seems like the hybrid has no synergy. If you did this, Id say have ninja stars and grind down the opponents and have them rotate towards your bot while another weapon attacks it further.
can you explain what you mean by this in English, please?
Also, I have just a "flat red skin", as I don't really know how to change the skin of a bot. :(
Lastly,
makes me want to commit suicide via Judas Cradle.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/57319C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_59239488.jpg)
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Also, I have just a "flat red skin", as I don't really know how to change the skin of a bot. :(
From the "Paint Shop" tab, on the lower left, click the "Export Paint Template" button. Edit that image, then slap it back onto your bot via the "Import Custom Paint" button.
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Thanks, thrack, will do.
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chris, buddy, what he means is get rid of that grinder at the front, there useless(just ask coal miner *thatsastockjokedwm8*) and get a new weapons system. 2 spinning ninja stars (not on bursts) either side of your robot so spinning counter clockwise but have them either side of you bot at the front so that bot can actually fit between the gaps, then have another set of weapons (with bursts or whatever you come up with) to attack them either side like those spinners you got there or hammers. the spinners lose spinning energy the more extenders ya got on em so just not have any at all and only use them IF absolutely nessecary. finally make sure you do this after you lower your chassis, a good glitch for that is to drag the height bar when desiging your chassis all the way to the top and then click the very bottom of the bar, it will get it really low for you so you have more weight for motors, weapons and batteries. finally finally, just make it invertible buddy, take your motors your gonna use up half the height of your chassis and just place a wheel on em thats just big enough so its not too small so that your a sitting duck, but not big enough so you have barely any grip and get violated by pop-ups (trust me, their evil). im done now so good luck with that buddy, i got yo back =)
love ecolusian :heart_smiley:
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makes me want to commit suicide via Judas Cradle.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/57319C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_59239488.jpg)
Yeah take everything Avalanche says with a pinch of salt. He's still yet to prove his own building ability despite being here for ~5 years.
Really the overview is make everything as efficient as you can. Invertability weighs less than a srimech, static blades weigh less than swingy ones (even if you put the snappers at the front you'd use less weight on extenders), small chassis weighs less, and you need less batteries because less snappers. In all this means... more weapons! :) You definitely need a lot more on there, I'd doubt 6 blade things would be sufficient on a LW, let alone a HW.
Good luck in your improvements, hope the majority of people here are giving you sound advice. :)
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WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH MAKING BOTS INVERTIBLE? I mean, it just makes it more difficult to drive, as it flips the controls.
When driven by an AI (like in a tournament or whatever), it can drive just as easily either way up.
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also so you are not useless when inverted.
"it makes it more difficult to drive" is just a lazy excuse i'm afraid.
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Wait, wait wait. So, Craaig, are you saying that he is worse than me?
Also, I have begun work on the robot that can invert and has this grinder/spiker design. (probably not the correct technical terms but nyeeh)
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Hey I said nothing comparing you 2, don't put words in my mouth :P I haven't looked at his building enough and you haven't shown us enough for me to really judge that one I guess?
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No, Avalanche is just rude or posts edgily sometimes.
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, and the design seems like the hybrid has no synergy. If you did this, Id say have ninja stars and grind down the opponents and have them rotate towards your bot while another weapon attacks it further.
can you explain what you mean by this in English, please?
Also, I have just a "flat red skin", as I don't really know how to change the skin of a bot. :(
Lastly,
makes me want to commit suicide via Judas Cradle.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/57319C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_59239488.jpg)
If you had stated you didn't know how to skin then I would have told you how. Just was outright ugly. Another way of skinning is going into the paint part of the bot lab and fiddling about to see what you like.
Also, I was trying to state that there is not a real point to having the spinners on snappers. Just doesn't seem necessary and it doesn't work well. Why have them on there when in fact it just means they are out the way, doing less damage most the time and the extenders can and will be torn off if hit.
Here is a example of innovation, like you have done with this weapon design.
A ordinary spinner is like a boat made out of wood.
A good spinner hybrid innovation would have the spinners bring bots closer to the bot and have a extra weapon, such as a axe or hammer attack the top also. That is like a boat made out of Steel.
And then your innovative design is like a boat made out of Bread. Yes, its innovative but the innovation does not actually improve the boat because it will get soggy and break apart and be useless.
Put the weight you gain by not messing on with special snapper gear to use by adding more weapons.
And finally, this one is for craaig.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/21852screenshot_14.PNG)
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/46287New Skin Onslaught.png)
5 years of no improvement what so ever? I don't think so.
And yes, when it comes to new showcases I become Edge Snowflake, destroyer of hopes and dreams. Or just a d*ck. Your call.
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Dude calm down. I never said you hadn't improved. I mean yeah, that's a lot better, but of course you could still improve it.
All I was doing was being as harsh to you as you were to him. Hell, I think I was nicer to you :P
Politeness, yo.
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No, Avalanche is just rude or posts edgily sometimes.
I think he just gets a pleasure out of whacking people he thinks are inferior to him.
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.
And yes, when it comes to new showcases I become Edge Snowflake, destroyer of hopes and dreams.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/76634C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_Screen-Shot-2015-01-21-at-09_02_48.png)
Anyway, I still don't get what you mean, by "pulls bot closer", however I'm trying to work on a design based on what ecolusian interpreted your answer to be. You'll see it soon.
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Hey, everyone!
Today I am treating you to two different bots! Both of these bots may seem familiar to you, as I used them in the challenges against Thrackerzod and Ecolusian, respectively ( of which I lost both :( )
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/43649Flaming memorial.png)
As the splash notes, this is the first iteration of my signature bot, the flaming memorial! It uses steel armour.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/33134Burning Horizon.png)
And this is the, frankly, pretty sh**, bot called the burning horizon, this is loosely based off of the flaming memorial, and has titanium armour.
[moverightfast]Thoughts? Tips? [/moverightfast]
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For the 2nd bot, you have a TON of empty space. try shrinking the chassis so you can barely fit all your components in. Otherwise, I'm not too familiar with ironforge, so I can't comment on your weapon/motor choices.
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Yeah not even gonna talk about the first one seem as though it's so unrealistic.
The second one could use a lot of chassis shrinking and probably a switch to lighter wheels rather than tracks.
Also why are the weapon motors on extenders? you could save a lot of weight just by putting them on the anchors.
Really not enough weaponry for a middleweight, I'll be honest with you. Shrink the chassis and concentrate on 1 weapon system rather than going for weird hybrids with meh synergy.
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Yeah not even gonna talk about the first one seem as though it's so unrealistic.
That's because I was building to an ironforge unrealistic build style. I didn't stack anything, so the bot is perfectly legal.
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Yes, I know.
And I don't build unrealistically so I'm not gonna give advice on stuff I'm less informed about, despite seeing things which I think would be very beneficial.
Also hardly anyone has built IF Unrealistic.
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long reier advice™ ahead
Build what you want but basically noone builds unrealistic in ironforge so you won't have anyone to fight against fairly. The main thing that makes it unrealistic is the snapper blades passing through he wheels and motors, as well as the spinners on the front going through each other. In the standard ruleset this wouldn't be allowed, so like in tournaments and stuff.
As for the design itself its ok i guess, it seems a bit messy though with all the different types of weapons. I'm sure simplifying the frontal weapons and ditching the back ones will improve it. If you want to keep a similar design to this with small grindy spinners I might try rebuilding the chassis and making a sort of trapping setup with plows on the sides and wedges or something. You might want to try making an HS with just 1 motor and strong weapons, take a look at the HW-Undercutter bot in the AI ironforge comes with. The flamethrowers do not help you here and they just keep things from hitting your spinners.
Also to save weight I'd highly recommend 2WD. wheels weigh a lot, I'd go for maybe firebird drive if I were you. It's plenty fast for this kind of design. 4 RC motors are not very strong and the setup I explained is faster and lighter. Also if you ditch the snappers and go 2d you only need 2 carbatts which will also save you a lot of weight for more weapons and armor.
on the second one I think your weapons can be improved quite a bit, they kind of work against each other as-is. The range of your hammer is short of your zteks, so basically to use it you will have to somehow get your oppenent on top of your weapon motors which is difficult and you risk losing your weapons quickly. Not to mention if they're on top of your zteks then your spinners can't even hit them. What you want to try for is widen your spinners a lot (like put them farther apart) and make it so your hammer reaches much farther than your spinners. see how the hammers in this robot are super long, angled, and light. (https://wiki.gametechmods.com/images/8/89/Ham-mer_Sandwich_2_Pic_2.jpg) You also want a piercing type weapon for a hammer instead of a sledge unless your hammer arm is reaaaaally long. Like I said on the other one if possible try to make this a more trapping-type setup with some armor wings on the side to guide things toward the spinners and you honestly need wedges on hammer bots.
Honestly its nice to minimize empty space like people said but guys it's really not as big of a deal in ironforge because the chassis armor is so much stronger than in stock/dsl. External armor was mandatory in dsl because the armors sucked but its not as dangerous here to have an exposed chassis, especially if its sloped.
For both of them it'd really help us if instead of you saying "steel armor" you'd say if it's steel 3 or 5 or whatever. Theres a lot of variance between the 4 thicknesses of each armor.
you probably want to download some cool custom textures to avoid having to paint your robot solid red also ;)
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first is a horrible mess of components. please clean that up. oh and the weapons don't work together.
second is much less messier but a sawbot/hammer like that... what are you doing ? the weapons don't work together at all.
not that i disapprove of hybrids but when you just add weapons without thinking how they work together, it's not worth it building hybrids.
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A'ight, I know it's been forever, but I'm finally here with a bot that's.... kind of competent
I'll apologise for the abysmal splash quality, 'cause I thrown it together in 5 minutes :P
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/85407Arthurian Legend.png)
I've been working on this bot for a while, and it incorporates a cheeky strategy to keep it in DSL-S. Essentially, what happens, is that as the blades get shot forwards by the piston, the burst motor attached to the shield covering most of the front of the bot raises upwards and out of the way. I also added the hammer on the back to allow the bot to protect it's behind, as well :P
Anyway, any refinement tips?
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Uh... what's the point of the box on the front? The back hammer is pretty pointless since it's rarely going to actually hit anything. You should probably put the weight down to a middleweight as well instead of an anorexic heavyweight
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Uh... what's the point of the box on the front? The back hammer is pretty pointless since it's rarely going to actually hit anything. You should probably put the weight down to a middleweight as well instead of an anorexic heavyweight
The point of the "box on the front", as I have said before, is that it is a shield for the main weapon, and for a good portion of the bot, and this raises as the weapons come forward to keep it at a DSL-S standard. And, actually, the hammer did work quite well against some reforged bots I was fighting against. I know that I need to add some weight, though.
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It actually would still be DSL-Standard if it poked through the shield. The reason for this is that, reasonably, you could cut out a small hole in the shield for the spikes to go through, and therefore doing so would not horribly violate physics.
Also, you don't need back-facing weaponry. It might seems useful when you drive the bot, but any AI driving the bot will never use it.
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i highly doubt that can beat any of the reforged ai
and as everyone else has said, that box design is pointless. just put the armor on sides of the piston.
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it's cool that you're trying to be innovative. it's definitely unique, but like boby said you need to aim for either 125, 200, or 400.
I know that the piston shield is the main feature of this bot, but there's more weight efficient ways to pull off a concept like this. Most people trying to do a similar thing generally just use a row of weapons or plows in front of the piston ram to protect it (with enough space in the middle to allow the piston to extend and keep it DSL-S) which isn't as original, but it's more practical and efficient.
Keep building whatever you want, I'm glad you're being original. But also keep in mind alternatives, generally there's a way to save weight on whatever setup you build no matter what it is.
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What everyone else has said is all good, obviously. The shield is redundant, but who knows if you could make it a hell of a lot larger it could be used to trap bots lolz
Innovation is always important, but it needs to be twinned with, at the very least, a solid approach to efficiency. Otherwise your innovative concepts will never realise the potential they could have.
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that shield is pointless as it is. remove the hammer, add wedges and make the shield a trapper, put some teeth in it.