gametechmods
Robot Arena => Showcases => Ironforge TC Showcases => Topic started by: Clickbeetle on July 08, 2014, 01:39:02 AM
-
Just got Ironforge and built a pile of bots. Nothing super serious yet, just trying out different designs to see what works and what doesn't.
Here's Tumbleweed, the first bot I built. It's inspired by Pro-AM / Kumite.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/69800tumbleweed.jpg)
I like this design and want it to work... but it doesn't. It can beat none of the MWs. The weapon doesn't have enough reach and doesn't do enough damage anyway.
Next I tried making Slambot Iron Edition.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/25299slambotiron.jpg)
Looks pretty cool... but is really bad in combat. It gets stuck on its side far too often. I could make it better, except that it seems everything I do turns it into a Havok bomb. Wider chassis? Havok. Remove those side skirts? Havok. I'm lucky I got one stable enough to not explode.
Finally I got something that works. Here's Falling Star.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/13786fallingstar.jpg)
It can't beat either of the VS for obvious reasons, or the shell spinner or SnS because fast melty brain bots are stupidly annoying, but it destroys anything else. I suspect it would be considerably less good if there were more bots with wedges, though.
Altas Undas was an attempt at upgrading Tumbleweed.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/8122altasundas.jpg)
Still doesn't work. The weapon packs a lot of momentum, but damage is low. I'm beginning to suspect that these steel blades don't work well on VS. Also, it's highly unstable. It self-rights easily, but one gyro dance is often all it takes to give the opponent the advantage. It can beat one HW... if you count Damage Tester.
I got tired of losing to every bot, so lastly I built Poot Slap, a generic HS that abuses the weapon array.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/99491pootslap.jpg)
This thing is too powerful for its own good. It can score over 12,000 damage in a single hit, but often throws itself to the ceiling in the process and then has trouble self righting. But even with questionable stability, it's powerful enough to win some fights.
-
I built a duspan bot like Falling Star but it sucks. Slambot Iron looks pretty sweet.
-
I'm really liking that VS.
-
Slambot Iron Edition and Tumbleweed look the best to me.
-
Yeah, don't expect most IRL bots to fair well against the current sample bots. You need to build things closer to standard if you want a fair chance against those. Of course, they will be replaced once I receive some IRL teams.
Also, it's not the blades, it's the angle and how you block most of the collision with those disc.
-
Bah, Blood Runner-type designs will kinda always fail. Unless you abuse heavy plows or caster armor.
Tumbleweed should be the name of a robot that rolls on himself as well !
-
Here's a cool bot that makes no attempt at being IRL. Pokers are boss in this mod.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/89131punjistick.jpg)
5mm steel armor. The sickle on top stops bots from jumping over the wedge and also helps it self-right.
-
That's insanely cool.
-
i would put the sickle in a forward position if I were you, but i understand it compromises extender effectiveness.
-
The underpoker and slambot are amazing and the latter should work better than it does.
-
Building more Ironforge this weekend just for fun. I haven't really played it since the new weight limits were introduced (hence the weights in my first post in this thread).
After seeing RedAce's March BOTM entry, I had to see if I could make a proper Ice Phoenix clone with two wings. Turns out I could.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/25741ironphoenix.jpg)
(I made a typo in the splash; the weight should be 597.7, not 797.7.)
I had to use some eFFe glitching to attach the blades, which I know is frowned upon in Ironforge, but it's an artbot so oh well.
That said, it's actually not terrible in combat. Better than Ice Phoenix, at least.
Next I wanted to build something competitive. I was watching videos from Motorama on Youtube and was inspired by Vile Ant and Low Blow.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/57069undertaker2.jpg)
Very powerful and good at hitting wheels, but it takes a long time to spin up and it loses its own wheels as often as the opponent. I tried adding some wheel guards but I can't get anything that doesn't look cobbled-together ugly. Still a pretty good bot though, and it can still maneuver and fight with only one wheel.
Then I was inspired by Nyx with its lifting arm and wanted to build a 180-degree (or as close as RA2 can get) flipper.
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/60703nix.jpg)
It actually works pretty well! It tends to be more flippy and less lifty than Nyx, but sometimes (often enough) it can do the full 180 degree body-slam.
Unlike Nyx though, self-righting is a pain for some reason. Those extenders on the back are essential for tipping Nix back on its treads.
-
Iron Phoenix looks metal !
180 degree flipper ? Maybe you should try bfe'ing the start/end positions of the burst.
-
Nice job with Iron Phoenix. I knew someone had to make a better version of the homage than what I did for BOTM. (Although, I couldn't get exactly what I was going for since the weight limit was HW and not SHW)
And I swear you built something like Undertaker 2 before (twice). But that and Nix is pretty cool as well.
-
Really cool to see you playing Ironforge, we need more people building cool stuff! Iron Phoenix looks sick. Do the wheels last long on Undertaker vs popups?
-
on undertaker you could make wheelguards by rotating the light panels out so that the inside touches where it does now and the outside part goes past the wheels like this
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/16685undertakerwheel.png)
also on some of my bots I axle load a DSL disk outside of the wheel and it works pretty well actually. its realistic imo because you could just add a shield on the wheel irl.
I really believe in ironforge you don't need insanely powerful weapon motors. in DSL you could put some weaker weapons on a duel perm and stay reasonably competitive, but the super high HP of weapons relative to their DP makes it much harder to knock them off compared to DSL, generally making it better to have more weapons instead of a powerful motor for your weapon imo.
in other words I doubt you need a 6mag. It takes forever to spin up with whatever you use due to your huge disk, i actually might shrink the entire bot a bit (disk, body, maybe wheels) and using the extra weight to make it tougher in armor and weapons. it looks very fragile to me. I doubt making it a bit smaller would hurt its effectiveness. it would be pretty easy too, most of your bot is extenders anyway.
also shameless plug but download my ironforge AI back those bots are tougher than the default ones :P
nix is cool but I can see its slow drive hurting it. looks great though. so is phoenix. what is the tail attached to?
-
I really believe in ironforge you don't need insanely powerful weapon motors. in DSL you could put some weaker weapons on a duel perm and stay reasonably competitive, but the super high HP of weapons relative to their DP makes it much harder to knock them off compared to DSL, generally making it better to have more weapons instead of a powerful motor for your weapon imo.
in other words I doubt you need a 6mag. It takes forever to spin up with whatever you use due to your huge disk, i actually might shrink the entire bot a bit (disk, body, maybe wheels) and using the extra weight to make it tougher in armor and weapons. it looks very fragile to me. I doubt making it a bit smaller would hurt its effectiveness. it would be pretty easy too, most of your bot is extenders anyway.
The thing is, Undertaker needs to be huge for the blades to reach under other spinners and hit their chassis and wheels. I could make it smaller and add more weapons but then I'm just building a generic HS.
(And yes, I did build another Undertaker in DSL a few years ago. It was basically the same design except it had a roll cage on top instead of invertibility. I'm surprised anyone remembers that.)
That said, you might be right about the weapon motor. I did build it with a 4-Firebird first and upgraded to the 6 later to try to improve the spinup time. (Also because of new player "must use biggest motor" syndrome.) And it was still good with the 4.
Iron Phoenix's tail is attached to a Snapper+.
-
making it smaller was more to get you weight for other things like wheelguards, but using a 4mag may be all you need for weight. the spinup time will still be super slow though but there's not much you can do to fix that with a disk that size
-
OK I think I'm starting to get the hang of Ironforge. This is my best bot so far:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/93037tumblebug.jpg)
The only bots that give Tumblebug trouble are HS, which it can't beat at all, and certain VS and popups (which it can beat, but not always).
It's called Tumblebug because it's either rolling bots in front of it like a ball of dung (a tumblebug is a type of dung beetle) or rolling around itself. It's pretty evenly balanced on both sides of the wheels, which makes it very stable but also prone to popping wheelies. Beating VS and gutrippers depends on keeping the weapons facing the opponent, which is a bit of a crapshoot (pun intended). But when it works, it hits HARD and deweapons anything not a rammer.
Not sure whether this bot would be classed as IRL or standard. It's certainly an IRL design but I can't see those clear panels being used on a real bot.
-
I'm gonna be "that guy" and ask "hey click wtf happened to your admin title"?
Bot looks alright, but personally I would make it wider so that it stands more of a chance against HS/SNS without getting it swept away. I also feel that you can use N12's instead of Cobra wheels.
-
I'm gonna be "that guy" and ask "hey click wtf happened to your admin title"?
It's still there, just invisible. Something to do with the board rearrangements preparing for RA3, or something. So for the moment I'm an undercover admin.
Bot looks alright, but personally I would make it wider so that it stands more of a chance against HS/SNS without getting it swept away. I also feel that you can use N12's instead of Cobra wheels.
I tried N12's at first and it wasn't as good. For one thing, they have significantly less HP. For another, being smaller, they tilt the bot up at an angle, which puts the bottom edge of the front support panels out further in front and makes it harder to hit bots with the weapon.
I suppose I could ditch the wheel guards and use bigger front plates to make it wider. It wouldn't be so cute but it might do better against HS. I'll give it a try.
-
I like it as is, but if you did ditch the wheelguards in place of wider front plates, you probably wouldn't need wheelguards anymore.
-
i can see having major problems getting stuck on your side if you make the front panels wider though
-
Bot for Reier's online tournament. He suggested building something hard to AI, and I thought, not much is harder than bots with servos. (I've done it, but it's not easy.)
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
The idea here was that I could make a saw arm with the motor acting as a counterweight, so it can move up and down quickly. Which works.
The trouble is, the weapon spins so fast that the recoil knocks the arm all the way back, so it has to swing around 180 degrees to hit the opponent again, rinse and repeat. So I need the spike in the rear, which hits the floor and prevents the arm from swinging back too far, so I can get more consistent damage. It also prevents the bot from doing wheelies and improves the wedges. Unfortunately, it also makes self-righting impractical. (It can be done, but the arm usually ends up facing backwards.)
If it gets a good pin on you though, watch out. Those blades can KO bots without top armor in seconds.
Have not played Ironforge in a long time and not familiar with the current metagame. Already have a couple of ideas for a possible Falling Star 3. More plows is on the list.
-
in IF you can totally get away with less weapon power with more weapons unlike DSL. you could probably use just a yellow ztek and not see much difference. might let you get a better setup for selfrighting too.
2 light plows in a V on the front might be better too with the higher fracture and all.
-
MW dump. If another MW Centauri happens, and I have time to enter it, I'll be ready.
in IF you can totally get away with less weapon power with more weapons unlike DSL. you could probably use just a yellow ztek and not see much difference. might let you get a better setup for selfrighting too.
2 light plows in a V on the front might be better too with the higher fracture and all.
Problem: Ironforge servos are not strong enough to lift the saw arm without the motor in the back acting as counterweight.
Problem 2: I am well aware that Perms are way too powerful for this application, but there are no other belt-drive motors.
So I need a counterweight, but I want it to be a functional counterweight. Not a wasteofweight. What can I use besides a weapon motor?
My first idea was to make the chassis rotate as part of the saw arm and use my free ballasts as counterweight. I'm confident that it WOULD work, except that it becomes a Havok bomb as soon as I put wheels on the servo.
My second idea was this:
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
With the arm in the up position, the Ban Hammer protects the arm and deals some passive damage. In the down position, it deals fire damage in conjunction with the ninja stars, hastening the rate at which I can deplete chassis HP. It's also heavy enough for the arm to move up and down with absolutely no lag time.
Other upgrades from Falling Star 2:
- MOAR PLOWS for better spinner defense.
- No need for a rear kickstop on the weapon arm, so it can easily self-right and immediately get the weapon back in position.
- If the ninja stars break, it still has a rotary flamethrower and strong defense to win by points.
- Better drive and uses all four ballasts for improved control. It is much easier to maneuver around the Octagon without clipping the flippers with this bot.
- Bonus: It drives perfectly straight in reverse!
I really wish I could upgrade some of those light components to dark (particularly the plows and the weapon arm) but I'm extremely strapped for weight. I did try using the lighter, non-hammer flamethrower, but that doesn't protect the arm, which it turns out is pretty necessary.
(Also yes I totally ripped off SawBlaze's logo. This might as well be the Ironforge version of SawBlaze.)
In the vein of "unique designs that are hard to AI", I also made this thing:
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Obvious inspiration from 2016 Bombshell's horizontal spinner module.
Actually, this is truly impossible to AI effectively. The decision to run in undercutter or overcutter mode is entirely subjective and beyond the abilities of AI. (The best you could do would be some sort of adaptive-AI thing where it changes tactics if it loses, like Seism 13.)
It's cool, but not really that great. Much like Bombshell, it is a hard counter for about 2-3 very specific designs, and mediocre against everything else. It could possibly be improved.
Finally, I've seen a few HUGE designs in Ironforge, but they all use the transparent discs for wheels, or even vertical treads. Why not try those 200 cm motorcycle wheels that are quite honestly NEVER going to be used for anything else? 12,000 HP ain't bad!
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Problem/actually sort of not a problem depending on how you look at it: The torque of the weapon spinning up actually causes the hammer to swing around, so it's sort of a cross between HUGE and the original concept of Axe Backwards. By throttling the weapon back and forth, it can even become a thwackbot like Gabriel. The downside is that the hammer is always in front of the bot, so it's kind of hard to hit things with the main weapon. (Unless you turn around, but then the weapon will be spinning downward.)
Could possibly be improved. Maybe lighter spinner, heavier hammer?
-
These are all super cool, I hope we get to fight again at some point