Poll

Which do you prefer.

3 Metas (Stock, Ironforge, and DSL-S)
21 (55.3%)
2 Metas (Stock and Ironforge)
14 (36.8%)
1 Meta (Stock, Ironforge, or DSL-S)
3 (7.9%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Author Topic: GTMCS 2: Discussion  (Read 3713 times)

Offline NeonCalypso

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2017, 06:18:52 PM »
Good thing we have dsl-s and not retooled, I'm hyped.
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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2017, 07:23:43 PM »
I think the problem is IRL can be competitive if everyone goes in with the intention to win but if you do this currently you are hounded for it.. But DSL-S/Ironforge S has hardly any grasp on reality outside of "don't stack or intersect" and generally just is a pain in the ass to build for. Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
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Offline Dreamcast

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2017, 07:29:43 PM »
I voted two metas. (#virtuesignaling) But DSL-S could get a good amount of entries.

How well (intended tournament size, percentage of slots filled, speed of signups etc.)? How well did the last stock tournament do? The allure of an official tournament was strong before and I'd need some proof in order to say that it's no longer present.

Offline Mr. AS

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2017, 07:31:20 PM »
Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
This way, we can have the problems of both IRL and DSL-S.
How you make Alarm Clock Pizza is:
Step 1: You buy an alarm clock from the store, and then you have to break it and put it in the sauce.
Step 2: Fold the sauce in 5 slices and put it in the dough.
Step 3: Paint the eggs with a pitcher of a clock showing what time you want to wake up and eat pizza for breakfast.
Step 4: Put the eggs in the dough.
Step 5: Make it flat into a round shape and draw the time you want on it.
Step 6: Put some old steel to prevent other peple from stealing it.
Step 7: Make it flat and cut into 60 slices 1 for each minute in 1 our.
Step 8: Put in the oven set the timer to 30048813.2884 seconds and put the temperature on 'Volcano' setting.
Step 9: If you think it is take to long, then get yor alarm clock and set it to now so that it will ring and you can take it out.
Step 10: Take it out uv the uvin wen it is redy and go to bed. In the morning eat pizza and also eat yor hands bi mistake.

Offline 090901

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2017, 07:53:35 PM »
But DSL-S/Ironforge S has hardly any grasp on reality outside of "don't stack or intersect" and generally just is a pain in the ass to build for.
IDK what you are smoking, but building a decent DSL-S bot should take way less time than building a good stock (don't have to worry about stacking/snapper loading/axle loading) or an IRL bot (no fooling around with RO7 break/attachment hermaphroditism/lining sh** up/skinning). If anything, DSL-S style realistic building is probably the best way to prove who is truly the """best""" competitive bot builder now a days since Sergepatcher came out and anybody can fire it up and never has to worry about doing glitches in stock again.

I think the problem is IRL can be competitive if everyone goes in with the intention to win but if you do this currently you are hounded for it..
I just don't think it works as a true competitive meta in a GTMCS where you can get forum titles and sizzile, due to the fact it's not that easy to draw a line in the sand as to where a bot is no longer "IRL" and no matter how hard it's vetted, someone's gonna slip thru/abuse a certain weapon/etc and then a bunch of people are going to throw a sh**fit. You are still welcome to enter "competitive IRL" bots in the DSL-S bracket if it happens however.

Good thing we have dsl-s and not retooled, I'm hyped.
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Offline Reier

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2017, 08:08:20 PM »
Standard has like the most simple building rules ever. Don't stack anything and make sure nothing intersects anything that you couldnt theoretically cut a slot into. Let's just do a rule set that any knuckle draggin moron can understand and let's just see who makes the best machine.

IRL is way too subjective for a competitive tournament. It is totally fine for showcasing. Unfortunately, with RA2 and its wonky physics, an effective design in the game is not an effective design IRL. Can we just get over this and build the best we can with what we've got instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?

AGAIN: IRL is totally fine for showcases and aesthetic reasons. It is awful for competitive tournaments unless you want to arbitrarily gimp yourself and build something inferior ingame even though it may look good irl. Frankly, I'd like to build to make something good rather than something pretty.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 08:40:18 PM by Reier »
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Offline UberPyro

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2017, 09:53:52 PM »
I agree with Reier. I know this has already basically been said, I know that I may be biased, and I know that I'm not that active, but here's what I think:

Given that:
1) The GTMC is (the most) competitive tournament
2) Anything "competitive" implies competitors want to WIN
3) Competitors will try to make the best robot they can within given restraints (because they want to win)
4) IRL legality is fuzzy and subjective

It's reasonable to conclude that there will be a lot of try-hard robots that cut close into the legality of an IRL robot, and this puts a lot of pressure on the tournament host to be fair (because the metagame essentially hinges on the leniency of the hosts).

By contrast DSL-S is much more black-and-white. There are either chassis bisections, or there aren't. There is an intersection between moving parts, or an intersection with batteries/motors, or there aren't.

Why do we still have IRL tournaments, then? Because its less about trying to win. Of course, competitors still want to win, but IRL tournaments are not as competitive by design, competitors care less about winning and more about fun, and then they work with less of an incentive to interfere with IRL legality. There's an appeal that comes from how these tournaments look, as Reier has said. Make an IRL tournament too competitive, and problems arise.

Offline Reier

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »
^yes

Some sort of hybrid of IRL and Competition might be a good idea.
standard is already a medium between stock-unrealistic (formerly the only way people built, really) and IRL
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Offline Gulden

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2017, 10:34:23 PM »
Off topic: If we are doing DSL (Standard or IRL Idc) will we include the balance patch?
I have several opinions.

Offline Reier

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2017, 12:08:32 PM »
maybe not to get too ahead of ourselves here but I'm curious what other peoples opinions are about allowing/banning wedges in IF for this. we all know it's basically an RNG dice roll a lot of the time on who wins a match just based on the wedges alone, especially with how easy it is to put wedges on in IF. a lot of designs arent even really viable since they don't have a wedge (ie drums etc). I would personally be pretty okay with banning them for this but I wanted to see what others think.
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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2017, 09:21:48 PM »
I didn't do IRL for the initial tournament because two major IRL tournaments were already going extremely well and there was no way even an 'official' GTM IRL tourney could top them, it could only possibly match them in terms of size.

I'd love this to happen, again. I don't want to be a part of it because I really do overestimate my interest in RA2, nowadays. However, my love for tournaments, in general, is a fire that won't burn out any time soon. So, hopefully this'll happen and it goes down smoothly and the tournament scene continues to thrive. I may not really care too much for what goes down here, anymore, but I would like to know that tournaments of this scale are still going on to appease those that still enjoy hosting/participating in RA2 tournaments.

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2017, 02:07:36 AM »
if an irl division does happen i'm more than open to host

Offline jdg37

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2017, 05:03:25 AM »
Personally in regards to irl, it would be hard to see something as more of an official.championship for that meta than the 7 RoboGames divisions.

If irl was to be used for gtmcs2, I feel the tourney would need some original rule or concept in place that would put greater priority on winning, without making everything look like sh**. Really, dsl-s should be enough for that.

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2017, 04:43:03 AM »
This still happening?
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Offline RedAce

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2017, 07:29:09 PM »
This still happening?
Well, Geice and 09 were helping with planning and allowed me to help host.  Haven't heard much within the past few days though.

Offline Mr. AS

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2017, 07:38:04 PM »
I have that arena with the hammers modelled up in rhino. Do you want me to send you that for GTMC or to make something similar to the one used for GTMC1? Albeit without floor damage.
How you make Alarm Clock Pizza is:
Step 1: You buy an alarm clock from the store, and then you have to break it and put it in the sauce.
Step 2: Fold the sauce in 5 slices and put it in the dough.
Step 3: Paint the eggs with a pitcher of a clock showing what time you want to wake up and eat pizza for breakfast.
Step 4: Put the eggs in the dough.
Step 5: Make it flat into a round shape and draw the time you want on it.
Step 6: Put some old steel to prevent other peple from stealing it.
Step 7: Make it flat and cut into 60 slices 1 for each minute in 1 our.
Step 8: Put in the oven set the timer to 30048813.2884 seconds and put the temperature on 'Volcano' setting.
Step 9: If you think it is take to long, then get yor alarm clock and set it to now so that it will ring and you can take it out.
Step 10: Take it out uv the uvin wen it is redy and go to bed. In the morning eat pizza and also eat yor hands bi mistake.

Offline Dreamcast

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 09:27:40 PM »
:really_makes_you_think:
Screen Shot 2017-10-24 at 10.27.04 PM.png

Offline 09090901

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 09:56:35 PM »
Since someone bumped this I'll spill what we had discussed

- Three metas would be hosted thoughout the year. They would be hosted one at a time with potentially different hosts. The first meta would have been stock HW, the other two would be TBA.

- Arena would be the BBEANS V2 or the arena AS was talking about.

- Champion title would have it's own custom color and rank.

- Rankings would carry over from the previous GTMCS.

Right now all we need is admin action, somekind of prize, and final confirmation if Redace is still willing to host.
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Offline RedAce

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Re: GTMCS 2: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 10:12:58 PM »
Right now all we need is admin action, somekind of prize, and final confirmation if Redace is still willing to host.
Well, one out of three ain't bad.  Still up for it if this gets going.  All I would like to know about the other two metas to handle if I need to host all three.