gametechmods

Robot Rumble 2.0 => Robot Rumble 2.0 => Topic started by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 07:16:46 AM

Title: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 07:16:46 AM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/RR2-BuildBattle1024banner.png)

THE ALPHA BUILD IS FINALLY HERE!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Robot Rumble 2 is a 3D robot combat simulation game currently under development by Nerd Island Studios, LLC.  The game is a labor of love by several members of the GameTechMods community, and we are excited to announce our public Alpha release during the live filming of BuggleBots 2018.  We are shooting for a release date of fall, 2019.  Join the conversation here on GameTechMods, follow us on Twitter at @robot_rumble, and most importantly, sign up to join the closed beta at www.robot-rumble.com.

Build in the BotLab: Create custom parts from scratch with our built-in 3D modeling tool, combine those parts with prebuilt components to build a robot, then use sensors and logic to design your robot's AI for battle!
Fight in the Arenas:  AI vs AI, AI vs Player, or Player vs Player in local multiplayer matches
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 14, 2017, 08:35:54 AM
But... Will it run on Vulkan API?
JK
Actually, Awesome work. Hope to see this become next big robot figgting game.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Very cool to see another person have a crack at this. Keep us posted, this is the kind of stuff that the majority of the forum would be super interested in!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
Nice work there! Very impressed.

It's cool that you are trying to make it a simulator, rather than just a game.

I see that the wheels are very smooth, how did you achieved that? Did you use one of the standard colliders or something else?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:18:49 AM
Since we don't have gaming rigs at school, I am attempting to achieve as much detail as possible while maintaining 60 fps gameplay.  Here are some screenshots showing some models I am working on.

AmpFlow A28-400 gearmotor (modeled in Blender, textured in Substance Painter):
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/unity/ampflowmotordetail.png)

Welded 3/4" square tubular steel frame showing 5/16" hex bolts and 1/8" steel plate (modeled in Blender):
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/unity/blenderrobotdetail.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Oooo! Nuts and bolts too!

Nice ampflow model as well.

Loving the details :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:32:26 AM
Nice work there! Very impressed.

It's cool that you are trying to make it a simulator, rather than just a game.

I see that the wheels are very smooth, how did you achieved that? Did you use one of the standard colliders or something else?

Thank you!

For the original version of the game (Robot Rumble 1.0), I used Oimo.js physics, which uses cylinder colliders and is very smooth.  I just started with Unity, and it looks like PhysX is the only option, so I am experimenting with different drive mechanisms.  So far I have tried the following:

1. Forces applied directly to the model when keys are pressed (not at all realistic).
2. The standard Unity wheel colliders + white frictionless "casters" in the corners.  This is the model that you see in the link.
3. Cylindrical mesh colliders with hinge joints.  I made 16-sided, 32-sided, and 64-sided meshes in Blender and pulled them into Unity to see how they behave.  32- and 64-sided meshes work fine, but aren't quite as smooth as the wheel collider.

I am also considering an improved wheel collider that ray-casts in multiple directions for each wheel, but for now I am pretty happy with solution #2.  It has really low overhead and works wheel for protected wheels.  For flippable robots I will need to take a different approach, but right now I am just worried about getting everything running.

My target platform will be desktop with game controllers (Xbox and PS).  I would like to get it running with the Spectrum DX6i controllers we use for our real robots.  Assuming I can get them working, I will post a "how to" for this so people can use the real controllers.  For now, the simulator is intended to be 2-player multiplayer and 1-player vs AI.  Since I'm working in Unity this time, I would like to export to as many platforms as possible, potentially even to mobile and AirConsole, though I would need to think a lot about control scheme for those.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 10:41:01 AM
Oooo! Nuts and bolts too!

Nice ampflow model as well.

Loving the details :)

Re: Nuts and bolts - Of course! :)  It might be a little crazy to try to include every little screw that we use in a real robot, but right now I am exploring the limits.

I just received permission from AmpFlow to use models and the AmpFlow logo in-game.  I'm hoping to get permission from the other component manufacturers as well.  Hopefully everything ends up looking and feeling like the real thing.

The big problem we have is that we don't have our own arena, so students have to learn how to drive on the day of the competition.  Inevitably, this doesn't turn out well.  The goal is to give students driving experience beforehand so that they aren't completely befuddled by the controls when their robot is turned around in an odd orientation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on July 14, 2017, 10:47:11 AM
Thanks for the info!

I have tried as well to make a robot combat game, didn't go very far, but I did encounter the problem of the wheels, I used a method where I have the collision model of the wheel not completely fixed to the wheel itself, but I used a configurable joint to make it like a shock absorber radially, so it doesn't jump because of the not completelly smooth collision mesh.

But I'm sure you can find a much better and less messy solution than that!

I love the Idea of using the real controllers!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 12:20:48 PM
Thanks for the info!

I have tried as well to make a robot combat game, didn't go very far, but I did encounter the problem of the wheels, I used a method where I have the collision model of the wheel not completely fixed to the wheel itself, but I used a configurable joint to make it like a shock absorber radially, so it doesn't jump because of the not completelly smooth collision mesh.

But I'm sure you can find a much better and less messy solution than that!

I love the Idea of using the real controllers!

I think you might be overestimating my abilities!  :smile:

How much of an issue did you find the jumpiness to be?  Did you try increasing the number of sides?

I also found that adding sphere colliders as skids seems to reduce the jumpiness.  Apparently PhysX computes friction for every contact point, so as the number of contact points changes, the friction changes. Maybe this is the cause of some of the jumpiness?  Spheres only have one contact point, which I am thinking would smooth things out.

Also
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 14, 2017, 01:10:47 PM
Wow. I'm working on a robot combat game prototype too, but this just blows mine out of the water in terms of graphics. I wish you luck!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 14, 2017, 01:23:31 PM
unity is a good dev environment, i use it, I will check it out,maybe i will use it in a GTM event. Will the rumbles allow more bots that RA2?


EDIT:Looked at it, good start, cant wait to see more,Looks in lots of ways better that RA1 ,RA2 and almost RA3 graphic wise.
Also, nice , that may be the best online fighting game, there are some but none this style, You should also port to tablets, I only know 1 other bot fighting game that is inactive, I would love to see that on tablets.

Also, You can Make AI to make the other bots move with these simple lines of code if you want to try.

Transform tr_Player;
   float f_RotSpeed=3.0f,f_MoveSpeed = 3.0f;

   // Use this for initialization
   void Start ()
   {

      tr_Player = GameObject.FindGameObjectWithTag ("Player").transform; }

   // Update is called once per frame
   void Update ()
   {
      /* Look at Player*/
      transform.rotation = Quaternion.Slerp (transform.rotation , Quaternion.LookRotation (tr_Player.position - transform.position) , f_RotSpeed * Time.deltaTime);

      /* Move at Player*/
      transform.position += transform.forward * f_MoveSpeed * Time.deltaTime;
   }
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
unity is a good dev environment, i use it, I will check it out,maybe i will use it in a GTM event. Will the rumbles allow more bots that RA2?


EDIT:Looked at it, good start, cant wait to see more,Looks in lots of ways better that RA1 ,RA2 and almost RA3 graphic wise.
Also, nice , that may be the best online fighting game, there are some but none this style, You should also port to tablets, I only know 1 other bot fighting game that is inactive, I would love to see that on tablets.

Also, You can Make AI to make the other bots move with these simple lines of code if you want to try.


Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

In either case, I'm working as a solo developer in my spare time (an hour or two each day) right now, so I have to be really careful to make sure the scope of the project doesn't get too big.  The priorities are:

Priority One:
- A complete basic robot model (2 wheels, no weapon) that looks like the real thing.  At this point, this means a lot more 3D modeling and texturing (ESCs, batteries, wiring, wiring harness, cable management, etc.).
- Physics-accurate (or as accurate as possible) controls and feel for the basic robot.  This will take a lot of tweaking with the physics engine, and some work to get game controllers working in "tank tread", single-stick, and double stick controls.
- A complete basic arena with a 2-minute countdown timer (our real-life "Rumbles" are all two minutes long).
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?
- Music, sound effects, and arena lighting
- Game UI
- Enemy robot AI
- 2-player local multiplayer controls

Priority Two:
- Basic robot wheel customization: Where should the wheels be?  How many wheels?  What diameter? Which motor?
- Robot weapons: Horizontal vs vertical spinner vs drum vs wedge vs flipper?

Priority Three:
- Fully-configurable component placement: Which style of motor should we use? Where should the batteries be? Tubular vs bracket vs welded plate construction? Wiring? ESC placement?
- Location-based damage model: This isn't something we typically see a lot of in competition though, as robots are typically knocked out in unpredictable ways (a wire comes loose internally, a battery loses charge, an ESC gets jostled).  The only real weapon damage I have seen in our competition is that when someone hits someone else hard enough, their own weapon breaks.  It is exciting, but embarrassing too.  I don't think I have seen anyone penetrate armor enough to cause internal damage to a battery.
- Gamification: New arena types - Unrealistic gravity? Fire/water/wind, sloped arenas, other craziness?
- Online multiplayer (this is money-dependent, and I'm reluctant to incur monthly multiplayer server costs unless I am confident that the game can be self-sustaining)

Priority Four:
- Reimagining the simulation as a game for mobile/tablets/AirConsole/console

At the moment, Robot Arena doesn't have anything to worry about as the premier platform for what it does, but I would like to develop Robot Rumble to the point where it is both useful and fun to play.

In the end, I hope to simulate the feel of the real competition.  These YouTube videos show our students in our first two year's of competition.  They are the inspiration for this project:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPvcuaTSCc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzPvcuaTSCc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVcygcpSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMVcygcpSYY)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 14, 2017, 04:16:22 PM
Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

[/quote]
I think you would tag the everybody"Player" and only give the script to the AI players. So th'all kill each other. Did you test the lines i sent you?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
Sweet!  Thanks for the AI script!  I have been wondering how to handle identifying a particular game component.  I suppose player1 and player2 would have their own tags?

When you say "more robots", do you mean more robots that are pre-made and ship with the game, or are you referring to a user's ability to create and store more of their own creations?

I think you would tag the everybody"Player" and only give the script to the AI players. So th'all kill each other. Did you test the lines i sent you?
[/quote]

Regarding tags:  Ahh!  Nice!  I'm not used to attaching scripts yet.

I haven't tried the script, because isn't it written for non-rigidbodies? 

I was planning to give AI robots the exact same control mechanism as the players, which means applying torque to the drive wheels, rather than directly modifying the robot transform.  In Construct 2 I did this with the following:

1. Forward/Backward acceleration: Compute a dot product between the AI robot's forward vector (world space) and the bearing to the target (world space).  If the dot product is positive, then apply equal torque to both wheels to make the robot go forward. If the dot product is negative, do not apply torque.  This means the target is behind the AI robot, and they should just turn but not drive forward or backward.
2. Left/Right steering: Compute a cross product between the two vectors.  Apply turning torque to each wheel according to the cross product. 
Also, check the dot product to see if it is negative.  If so, then the target is behind the AI robot, and we need to apply the maximum turning torque to get the AI robot around as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kaiser on July 14, 2017, 04:51:26 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 05:09:14 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 14, 2017, 05:16:06 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Just keep plugging away at it my dude, frequent updates are a must to keep projects like this from dying

If you ever need development help, many of the people on the forum have lots of knowledge and experience, and I'm sure they'd be happy to help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 14, 2017, 05:23:56 PM
Someone give this guy a medal.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver!

I figure I need to get everything in the "Priority One" list done before October.  If that happens, then I should be in good shape to turn out an actual shippable product sometime in the next few years. 2 months to get the basic game working, then 2 years to polish it.  :)
Just keep plugging away at it my dude, frequent updates are a must to keep projects like this from dying

If you ever need development help, many of the people on the forum have lots of knowledge and experience, and I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

Will do!  The students keep my honest, and I need to stay on track to make sure they have a working simulator in October.

As far as help goes, I would love to find an experienced Unity dev to partner with.  I have my own company, and am willing to go 50-50 on revenue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 25, 2017, 09:21:56 PM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 26, 2017, 06:47:55 AM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.

For this version of the game, I am looking to control movement through the physics engine, rather than directly via the transform.  I think a mobile version might benefit from simplified transform-based movement though -- it is further down on the list, but still definitely an option I would like to explore.  I'm pretty sure I could bust out a top-down version of a mobile game relatively quickly once the full PC version is done.

I'm hoping to put out an announcement on the game in the next week or two.  Still waiting on a few details... :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 02:41:34 AM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 02:44:31 AM
You could use the part of my code for facing the player in you game and just have other animation do the walking.

For this version of the game, I am looking to control movement through the physics engine, rather than directly via the transform.  I think a mobile version might benefit from simplified transform-based movement though -- it is further down on the list, but still definitely an option I would like to explore.  I'm pretty sure I could bust out a top-down version of a mobile game relatively quickly once the full PC version is done.

I'm hoping to put out an announcement on the game in the next week or two.  Still waiting on a few details... :)
*record scratch* say whaat

do you understand how long i have been begging to see this happen? so many mobile developers out there and nobody has had even the slightest impulse to try a robot combat game for mobile devices! it has the potential to blow the **** up, i'd think! imagine the online multiplayer... /swoon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 06:24:56 AM
*record scratch* say whaat

do you understand how long i have been begging to see this happen? so many mobile developers out there and nobody has had even the slightest impulse to try a robot combat game for mobile devices! it has the potential to blow the **** up, i'd think! imagine the online multiplayer... /swoon

Again, I don't want to overpromise and underdeliver.  There already are at least two games out there, one of which is the original "Robot Rumble", that kinda-sorta do robot combat in a very gamified way.  The big thing that RA2/RA3 have that don't exist on mobile is the bot building aspect.  In my mind, this is *way* harder to do in 3D.  It is pretty simple to do in 2D, if you aren't worried about 3D physics.  But a 2D physics-based robot combat game is also a very different game.

My core competency is actually 2D mobile development, but my fear is that it is really difficult to do mobile controls in a satisfying way for a 3D robot combat game.  I already started the process in the original Robot Rumble for AirConsole, then spent another two months iterating on things until I had cut everything down to a 2-button control scheme (left button - go forward & turn left, right button - go forward & turn right, both buttons go backward, no buttons drive forward).  It isn't perfect, and I want to rethink everything in a proper 3D PC game first before trying to tackle mobile again.

Another option is to pretty much require a MFi/game controller if you want to play on your phone.  It might cut user base, but it would make the controls so much better.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 06:57:02 AM
i think the most intuitive way to allow controls to be handled would be to allow you to kind of 'drag and drop' useable buttons for your robot onto your screen kind of like how one would customize the button placement for a mobile emulator on their screen. but again that would take a certain amount of know-how to do (not trying to imply that you don't have that kind of know-how, but i have no doubt in my mind that creating a game in any respect for a mobile platform is no easy venture)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 07:06:54 AM
i think the most intuitive way to allow controls to be handled would be to allow you to kind of 'drag and drop' useable buttons for your robot onto your screen kind of like how one would customize the button placement for a mobile emulator on their screen. but again that would take a certain amount of know-how to do (not trying to imply that you don't have that kind of know-how, but i have no doubt in my mind that creating a game in any respect for a mobile platform is no easy venture)

This is an interesting idea!  Make the game about creating control schemes as much as creating robots...

Imagine someone puts seven motors/actuators on their robot, each controlled by their own button.  They would quickly find that they have created a huge driving challenge.  I wonder if this could be fun, or if everybody would quickly realize an optimal control scheme and stick with it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 07:18:00 AM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 07:47:39 AM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.

I kinda want to prototype this today... :idea2:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on July 27, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
I've found that everybody has their own preferred control scheme regardless of game. For controlling robots I've toyed with Tank-controls, Single-stick and even car-style (RT drives, LS steers). If it's something you can afford to develop people will likely enjoy having the option.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 08:22:21 AM
I've found that everybody has their own preferred control scheme regardless of game. For controlling robots I've toyed with Tank-controls, Single-stick and even car-style (RT drives, LS steers). If it's something you can afford to develop people will likely enjoy having the option.

I have a project that I played with back in february that let you switch between eight different standard controller options, so this is definitely something that could be put into a game.  I think it would be cool to try making a fully customizable smartphone button configuration that goes beyond what you could do with a physical controller.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 27, 2017, 04:43:24 PM
ha! now that's some way to think about it, you're absolutely right though. especially considering you've only got so much space you can allow yourself for buttons on a mobile screen before you've run out of space to see what the hell you're doing, it does it's own work keeping outlandish and unrealistic design in check.

Here's an initial stab at a mobile-friendly robot control scheme builder.  I didn't have enough time to finish today, and will try to work out the bugs tomorrow:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/botlabprototype/index.html (http://nerdislandstudios.com/botlabprototype/index.html)

Forces are not being correctly applied by the motors, but at least you can see how things might work.

To use:
1. Add two motors and drag them to the left and right sides of the robot.
2. Add as many buttons as you want and drag them to the gray control area at the bottom of the screen.
3. Tap on a button to select it.  Once it is selected, you can tap on motors to change that motor's control direction for that button.
4. The red "X" deletes the button.
5. The "hand" icon allows you to reposition a button.
6. When you are satisfied with the control scheme, tap the "Play Mode" text.
7. To go back into edit mode, tap the "Edit Mode" text.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Starcore on July 27, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right

I would comment to not forget F= MA. While you can do shortcuts of how much damage a weapon does and assume a lot of things if one bot is much lighter than another and/or if you scale the weapons at all to the scale of the bot size then please don't forget to scale the amount of damage it can do in collisions, ramming and weapon contacts.

Also on your movement, if you do dot products to decide if a bot can move towards a foe or not, you are not taking into account if one or more motive wheels have been removed or damaged. If they planned for redundancy in having more than usually 4 wheels and that using dot product checks and the opponent is at nearly right angles will cause pretty strong errors in the movement.

Finally, the dot product method assumes always the same level which can be an assumption you can take if you plan on always having flat arenas but will be a problem if you later change mind to have ramps, bumps, multi level options.

Sorry if I have missed things in diving in midstream and seeing some possible issues.

Starcore
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on July 27, 2017, 07:53:29 PM
nice work with the control setup! that's pretty much exactly what i was talking about. i think that would be a perfect way to implement your control schemes in a way that's customize-able to each robot  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2017, 06:39:43 AM
- An intelligent scoring system that attempts to model the (entirely subjective) judging at our actual competitions.  This might prove to be the trickiest part, as it is mostly based on how "exciting" a particular competitor is if no one is knocked out.  Does anyone have any ideas on how to do this?

i would imagine a system that would record the speed of both bots upon impact when it's a non-weapon hit and speed/damage upon weapon hit, maybe even including something like a 'sparks' system that would sway judge opinion in favor of those who generate more sparks from their hits, but also to make things fair for flippers and shovers a counter-point system that reverses judges favor through hazard impact and slams (flips, too) as well. sounds complicated but probably possible if fine tuned juuust right

I would comment to not forget F= MA. While you can do shortcuts of how much damage a weapon does and assume a lot of things if one bot is much lighter than another and/or if you scale the weapons at all to the scale of the bot size then please don't forget to scale the amount of damage it can do in collisions, ramming and weapon contacts.

Also on your movement, if you do dot products to decide if a bot can move towards a foe or not, you are not taking into account if one or more motive wheels have been removed or damaged. If they planned for redundancy in having more than usually 4 wheels and that using dot product checks and the opponent is at nearly right angles will cause pretty strong errors in the movement.

Finally, the dot product method assumes always the same level which can be an assumption you can take if you plan on always having flat arenas but will be a problem if you later change mind to have ramps, bumps, multi level options.

Sorry if I have missed things in diving in midstream and seeing some possible issues.

Starcore

As a physics teacher, I couldn't forget F=ma if I tried!  :bigsmile:

To be honest, I have a lot more game playing to do -- I just recently downloaded RA2 (where has this game been all of my life?) to see how everyone else has solved these problems.  My gut instinct is to use change in kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) for damage and change in momentum (mv) for relative movement.  I still consider myself really naive, as this question of how to handle damage has been solved many times before, so I will keep playing around.

I'm not quite sure I understand your statement about problems with using the dot product in the case of wheel damage.  In the original Robot Rumble, the dot and cross products were computed to determine an intended direction of motion, and torque was applied to the wheels to make that happen. If the intended direction was 90 degrees from the current robot heading, the dot product would be zero, while the cross product would be maximum and result in a maximum turning signal.  The system was self-correcting though.  In the case of a lost wheel, the dot and products would constantly adjust, changing the signal to each wheel to compensate so that an AI could still steer precisely toward its target, albeit not as quickly due to the loss of a wheel.

I totally get what you mean about more complicated arenas.  How did you solve the AI problem in this case?  Did you use an A* algorithm, or similar?  How did you handle multiple levels?

I am brand new to AI programming, so any tips would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 28, 2017, 10:52:40 AM
Kinteic energy applied would be the smartest move for a points system I would think. I personally think that you're planning too far ahead, though. IMO you should get a working prototype of 2 bots interacting in an arena before even worrying about anything else, like bot building, points systems or damage models. Walk before you run, so to speak.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 28, 2017, 11:29:06 AM
Applied........
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 28, 2017, 11:42:03 AM
IMO you should get a working prototype of 2 bots interacting in an arena before even worrying about anything else, like bot building, points systems or damage models. Walk before you run, so to speak.

Considering that we just lost our Unity programming lead, you are probably right.

If we can't find someone to work in Unity, I'm confident that I can get Robot Rumble 2.0 up and running in Construct 2, but I was hoping to migrate to a development environment that is not nearing its End Of Life.

In either case, there are lots of scope and design decisions to make (Do we have multilevel arenas? Do we try to do realistic or gamified damage? Do we support online multiplayer? etc.)  It helps to sort these things out early on in the process.  For Robot Rumble we had the game working fairly quickly, approximately one day to get two robots moving and fighting.  The rest took an additional four months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on July 28, 2017, 11:44:52 AM
Can i be a proggramer dude?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 05:57:20 AM
Now available - playable 2D mockup!  Here is a link to the mockup:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/index.html (http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/index.html)

Over the past week I have been mocking up a new version of the game in 2D.  We still intend to build a 3D version, but this 2D version will allow us to try things out and rapidly iterate before committing to an idea and building all of the 3D artwork and gameplay.

Edit: The robots are controlled entirely by AI.  You can drag&drop them around the screen, but I wanted to see how things would play out with AI-only robots.  When the robot lab is built, you will be able to make new designs and AI rules.

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/mainmenu.png)
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/rr2D8-17-17/2Dgameplay.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Full disclosure: Thanks to help from @Starcore and others on the forum, I just recently realized that AI battles are a huge part of the RA2 experience.  I had assumed that people played RA2 because of PvP multiplayer (either local or online multiplayer), but realize that because of the robust AI built by the modding community, the game is now so much more than that.

This has changed my opinion of what Robot Rumble 2.0 should be.  Perhaps RR2.0 should be primarily about building AI bots that battle in tournaments.  AI should be an integral part of the Bot Lab, with screens dedicated to designing AI behavior.  What do you think?

Is AI design important enough to make it the central focus of the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on August 18, 2017, 06:16:24 AM
As the online multilayer of RA2 is non existend people had to rely on AI to host tournaments. We never really had a choice to say we prefer AI over PvP as we haven't experienced PvP in a propper way yet
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 08:58:50 AM
As the online multilayer of RA2 is non existend people had to rely on AI to host tournaments. We never really had a choice to say we prefer AI over PvP as we haven't experienced PvP in a propper way yet

Fair enough.  I thought about including online multiplayer in the poll, but left it off for two reasons:

1. I'm not aware of any robot combat games that do online multiplayer.  The closest thing I know of is the original Robot Rumble for AirConsole (local multiplayer) that I built, and games like Rocket League which don't have nearly as many moving parts, and have a massive development team.
2. It is *really* hard to build an online multiplayer game based on 3D physics.  You have to worry about variable network latency and accurately predicting the motion of objects when each player has a physics engine that is essentially a random number generator generating different position, rotation, velocity, acceleration, etc.

As it is, it scares me to even consider building online multiplayer in RR2.0.  I really like the AI-only solution -- I think it is really elegant, and changes the dynamic of the game to something that is more strategic than fast-twitch-response-based. 

I was thinking we could still do local multiplayer running on a single screen.  I have many fond memories of playing Mario Kart 64 with friends while sitting on the couch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 18, 2017, 12:53:28 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 01:17:32 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.


Not exactly, im sure there are people who want a good multiplayer combat fighting game, i know 2 kinda modern rc games, they both did ok, one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs. If you can make a better game then both of those, people may think fighting robots with other people is fun, if you market it right, dont have bugs.
One thing RC games ive seen latley, there made in unity as well, but are really buggy. But there are also nonbuggy games in unity, so it is possible to avoid bugs, if you just market it well, this is key, lots of people who never heard of robogames , Robot wars or battle bots may join. YOu should do multiplayer. Make it so it automaticly connects to random opponents. One game gave you a code and made you give it to someone else , i doubt it was used there, i am voting for multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 01:21:09 PM
If the focus of the game is multiplayer, it will die off pretty quickly due to a lack of sustainable userbase. While multiplayer functionality would be great, I think the focus should be AI combat. It should also be possible for users to make the AI control their own bots.

I agree on both counts: 

It takes pretty significant numbers to support online multiplayer rooms.  This is pretty rare for indie developers to sustain an online multiplayer community for more than a few months, and nonexistent for part-time indie developers like me.  Local multiplayer is another story, however.  "Robot Rumble" averages just under 2 players per game - people are more likely to play while sitting together in the same room than they are to play single-player.

I envision an improved robot building lab that is designed with AI building in mind.  There should be at least one screen (maybe a tab called "AI software"???) where players can configure the AI for the robot directly inside the robot lab.  It is going to take a lot of thought to get this right -- 15 years of AI development by the GTM community boiled down into one easy-to-digest screen is not going to be easy, but I think it is doable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 01:30:16 PM
one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs.

i am voting for multiplayer.

I personally haven't tried RA3 yet.  How is the online multiplayer experience? 

I'm afraid of underestimating how difficult it is do this well.

I expect that there would be a lot of robot parts that appear to randomly teleport when a packet arrives that is delayed by 300 ms and the robots are forced to shift their positions to the new spot.  Even with interpolation, there could be weirdness as robots rotate into position under the control of a linear interpolation function instead of the user's input.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on August 18, 2017, 01:37:16 PM
one is the dreaded RA3. THey both had multiplayer, but they were all full of bugs.

i am voting for multiplayer.

I personally haven't tried RA3 yet.  How is the online multiplayer experience? 

I'm afraid of underestimating how difficult it is do this well.

I expect that there would be a lot of robot parts that appear to randomly teleport when a packet arrives that is delayed by 300 ms and the robots are forced to shift their positions to the new spot.  Even with interpolation, there could be weirdness as robots rotate into position under the control of a linear interpolation function instead of the user's input.
RA3 multiplayer is a bit of a mess. It's buggy, occasionally laggy, and you can only play with people on the same continent as you with no option to change servers. It is still far better than RA2 online via Gameranger though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 02:00:07 PM
RA3 multiplayer is a bit of a mess. It's buggy, occasionally laggy, and you can only play with people on the same continent as you with no option to change servers.

I suspect that the same continent rule is designed to mitigate the problem of >1 second lag and lots of loss as packets travel around the planet.  I probably would have made the same design choice.  In a game that doesn't require as much synchronization, I think you can get away with opening players up to servers on other continents.  For example, this is much simpler for a 2D game where you only have to deal with translation in x-y and a single degree of rotation, maybe with a few height values thrown in here and there.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dreamcast on August 18, 2017, 02:42:12 PM
The only reason why we have so much AI is because online play is horrible.

Not that there's anything wrong with making it easy to AI a robot, or having AI'ing options. The Starcore AI pack robots were (IIRC) designed as sparing partners for multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
The only reason why we have so much AI is because online play is horrible.

Not that there's anything wrong with making it easy to AI a robot, or having AI'ing options. The Starcore AI pack robots were (IIRC) designed as sparing partners for multiplayer.

Given the choice between AI robot battles and a fun PvP online multiplayer experience with manually controlled robots, you would prefer the latter?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:17:51 PM
Another option I toyed with back in February was to create a point-and-click control scheme.  Robots would fight with AI, but you would tell them where to go and who to attack.

This might be the worst of all worlds though: it would lack the immediacy of direct controls, would still suffer from syncing issues as robots automagically lerp() to new positions and rotations, and require someone else to be online to battle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
But there is a multiplayer game worse than RA3 worse than RA2, rumble bots, for that, it just gives you a code to give to someone else which is just your ip adress, even worse, they suggest you be on the same connection which almost kills the point, and it is really glitchy, like other bots not moving, so yes there is worse than RA3 and RA2 with GameSpy.
Another option I toyed with back in February was to create a point-and-click control scheme.  Robots would fight with AI, but you would tell them where to go and who to attack.

This might be the worst of all worlds though: it would lack the immediacy of direct controls, would still suffer from syncing issues as robots automagically lerp() to new positions and rotations, and require someone else to be online to battle.
thats gonna be hard to do, have you ever tryed to AI in RA2?
You also need to name your controls and have smart zones and everything, and point and click will be also hard to code.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 03:58:43 PM
But there is a multiplayer game worse than RA3 worse than RA2, rumble bots,

Thanks for the suggestion to check out Rumble Bots!  We looked at it last year but we never tried online multiplayer.

Point and click targeting isn't too bad.  The code for "go to this spot" is identical to the code for "go to this target", which already exists in Robot Rumble.  In Unity, I believe this means just adding a raycast from the mouse to the arena floor to find the target location.  I have also done A* pathfinding before to navigate around obstacles, but doesn't Unity have this capability built in with the NavMesh system?

I downloaded DSL, and still need to play around with it to get the hang of how the whole thing works.  My goal is to create something simple and intuitive for beginners, but robust enough to handle a functionally infinite variety of AI designs.  This might be beyond my ability, but I will start working on a 2D version of the robot builder in the next few weeks to see how it goes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on August 18, 2017, 04:13:36 PM
 never heard of Robot Rumble, is it a game?

Do you mean bot arena?
THat has a point and click interface, i think its left clicking targets you bot(But its 2D not 3d), you should consider trying.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 18, 2017, 04:28:15 PM
Robot Rumble is a game that a group of students and I released back in February for Airconsole (www.airconsole.com).  RR was a student project, and for RR2.0 I am looking to release a much more polished product.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 19, 2017, 11:12:32 AM
I have been playing around with Rumble Bots on an iphone.  It is well done, but it appears to be a 3D game with 2D physics.  It is a smart choice, because that makes everything faster and online multiplayer much easier.

The key issue I have with online multiplayer is dealing with flipper bots and latency.  If I were fighting against a flipper bot and a couple of packets were lost or delayed, I wouldn't know, and would charge at my opponent who would apparently be standing still.  Meanwhile, on his screen, he might see me standing still and take advantage of the situation.  I think I have just scored a good hit, then suddenly, BOOM!  I am mysteriously on my back, having lost the match.  Rage would ensue, because from my point of view I should have just scored big.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 19, 2017, 11:18:08 AM
It might not be my place to say, but it looks to me like you have all these ideas you want to implement, but you don't have much of a base game right now. Multiplayer is a very complex and difficult thing to implement properly, and I personally think you should just get the physics engine and a couple bots sorted first as a proof of concept (like Jules did), and from there you can add onto that. I've fallen into the trap of having a huge scope for an awesome project, then realising after a ton of work that I can't do everything at once, and I end up with nothing to show. I wouldn't want this project to befall a similar fate.


You can conceptualise and post cool ideas all day, but if you can't implement those ideas into a game it's all for nothing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 19, 2017, 03:26:29 PM
You can conceptualise and post cool ideas all day, but if you can't implement those ideas into a game it's all for nothing.

You are correct about this, of course.  I hadn't mentioned yet that @tashic and I are working together.  He already has a working base of a game.  The physics need a lot of tweaking.  We were hoping to bring @jules in, but he won't be available for this project.

So far the team is just @tashic and me.  We are still working on bringing in a lead Unity developer, and are hesitant to go too far into the official Unity project if there is a chance that we will bring someone on who will want to work with their own programming paradigm/style.  This is why we are doing things like artwork and 2D mockups at this point.

So far we have the following scope:

COMPLETE OR NEARLY COMPLETE
-3 different drivable robots (functional, but the physics needs a lot of tweaking -- see @tashic's thread)
-2 different arenas (1 complete, 1 more on the way)
-Working robot AI in a different game engine

HIGH CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A complete game UI for selecting robots and playing single player or local multiplayer with game controllers / AirConsole.
-iOS and Android ports of the single-player game.  I have moonlit as an iOS developer for the past 5 years, and have launched an 1100-hour project for iOS.  I am confident in my ability to modify this game for iOS.
-A build system based entirely on predefined and pretextured models: pick a chassis, place motors, place wheels, place weapons, place sensors for AI

MEDIUM CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A build system that allows a player to create their own chassis mesh, as exists in RA2/RA3.  I have most of the principles figured out, and know where to borrow most of the code.
-A bot-sharing server and database, where players can share their designs and download new ones.  I have experience building several server-based apps, and know exactly how I would do this.

LOW CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-A build system that allows players to texture their chassis.  I know this is doable in principle, but I haven't started investigating it yet.

EXTREMELY LOW CONFIDENCE ITEMS
-Online multiplayer:  Unity has a pre-made signaling server, with Photon as another option.  The hardest part of this is client side, and I have enough trouble wrapping my head around realtime multiplayer with something relatively simple like a top-down shooter.  I don't think I could deliver a good player experience with this game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 27, 2017, 03:42:42 PM
Good news!

We are thrilled to announce that we have put together the core team for "Robot Rumble 2.0".  tashic, tomgsx, and I will be working together on the project, and have set a launch date target of mid-2019.  Starcore has graciously offered his guidance in the development of AI, and we are hoping to make this a big part of the game at launch.

Thank you for all of your kind words of support, and we hope to make this game something that we can all be proud of and enjoy for years to come.

-The Robot Rumble 2.0 Core Development Team
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on August 27, 2017, 03:44:50 PM
Great news!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on August 27, 2017, 07:53:30 PM
Good news!

We are thrilled to announce that we have put together the core team for "Robot Rumble 2.0".  tashic, tomgsx, and I will be working together on the project, and have set a launch date target of mid-2019.  Starcore has graciously offered his guidance in the development of AI, and we are hoping to make this a big part of the game at launch.

Thank you for all of your kind words of support, and we hope to make this game something that we can all be proud of and enjoy for years to come.

-The Robot Rumble 2.0 Core Development Team
Nice! I look forward to following the game's development!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2017, 01:21:45 PM
Howdy all,

We just wanted to let you know that work is continuing.  @tomgsx is in the process of building out the menu system and combat dynamics.  @tashic has taken on the significant project of creating the BotLab.  He has some pretty cool ideas about new ways to build robots from smaller pieces.  We don't know what is going to work and be robust enough to ship yet, but hopefully some of them work well.

Meanwhile, we have a website and the beginnings of a logo:

http://robot-rumble.com (http://robot-rumble.com)

(http://robot-rumble.com/logo-squareandtorch.png)

The T-square and the welding torch were chosen to represent an emphasis on building.  We are hoping to make a great robot building experience, where players can test their creations in combat, rather than focusing only on the combat.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 06, 2017, 01:31:01 PM
Thanks for the update, the logo looks good. Glad to hear that you're tackling this in a modular manner

Can you comment on if you're taking moddability into account during development? One of this things that has kept RA2 relevant for so long is how much of the game can be modified without touching the actual source code, or in other words how little of the game is hardcoded.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2017, 02:31:52 PM
Thanks for the update, the logo looks good. Glad to hear that you're tackling this in a modular manner

Can you comment on if you're taking moddability into account during development? One of this things that has kept RA2 relevant for so long is how much of the game can be modified without touching the actual source code, or in other words how little of the game is hardcoded.

We are hoping to make a system that is inherently flexible enough that modding isn't really necessary.  Here are a few of the things we are exploring:

Creating Custom Meshes
@tashic is attempting to make a mesh builder that allows you to "cut out parts" on a virtual bandsaw and weld them together to make whatever you want.  In theory it should be doable, but there are lots of gotchas along the way that could cause a lot of performance problems if we aren't careful.  We haven't gotten to custom texturing yet, and frankly, we still have a lot to learn about texturing and decals in Unity.

User-Built AI Code
My other goal is to study @starcore's AI work to see if we can pull out the basic logic and expose it to the user in a much more flexible way.  The vision is to have a system where players could program their robot AI, much in the same way our high school students do with their robotics kits (VEX and Lego Minstorms).  To be honest, we haven't started on this yet, and I envision that it will take a significant amount of work to do.  I have the basics of a system in mind for AI steering and attacking, and a conceptual framework for handling AI task priority (do I attack? run away? help my teammate? etc.), but I still have a lot more basic research to do before this begins to come together.  If we can't get this working, then maybe we can make the AI modding experience similar enough to RA2 + DSL that existing players will know what to do.

Whatever we can't build in, we are hoping to expose to the modding community, though it is almost as difficult to do this well as it is to build it right into the game.

First things first though -- we are getting close to an updated version of @tashic's original version.  I was hoping to test it with my robotics students sometime in the next two weeks, then publish it here for everyone else to try.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 06, 2017, 02:49:05 PM
@tashic is attempting to make a mesh builder that allows you to "cut out parts" on a virtual bandsaw and weld them together to make whatever you want.

this would be amazing if you get it to work. looking forward to seeing what comes together further down the line.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 02:50:26 PM
New logo.  This version is cleaner:

(http://robot-rumble.com/logo-ROBOTRUMBLE2.0.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on September 07, 2017, 02:51:46 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 03:10:47 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on September 07, 2017, 03:13:08 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on September 07, 2017, 03:21:47 PM
I feel like the old one was a little more childish than this new one (Probably because of the pickaxe.  What does that have to do with robots?).   But I do agree it's much less interesting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on September 07, 2017, 03:34:41 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Pretty much this. The other one could be an icon for the game as well as the logo so it's got a better branding rather than just some text that you don't instantly see is textured, rather than just plain grey.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on September 07, 2017, 03:42:23 PM
I think a good idea for the logo would be to incorporate a shape or logo that is the essence of the game boiled down into 1 image, like a lot of the RW/Battlebots branding revolves around gears or hex bolts that give off a mechanical vibe. The idea for this game would be as a building tool or mechnaism for people to learn how it's put together, so incorproating a wrench or a spanner into the logo would give a little more visual excitement, whilst not being an overly complicated logo either.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 07, 2017, 03:45:51 PM
The other one looked a million times better, but okay.

I appreciate the honesty!  What was it you liked about the first logo that is missing from the new one?
New one is just some text on a black background. The other one had some character to it. It actually looked like a logo rather than something kinda generic.
Pretty much this. The other one could be an icon for the game as well as the logo so it's got a better branding rather than just some text that you don't instantly see is textured, rather than just plain grey.

Fair enough.  My eye tends toward minimalism, but the broader community's opinion is the one that counts.

Thanks again for the feedback, and I'll keep working on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 27, 2017, 02:55:48 PM
My apologies for the length of time between updates.  We have been working on all sorts of odds and ends.  @tashic is busy with the BotLab, @tomgsx is working on combat, and we might be bringing a new team member on board.

Hopefully the next update will come soon, but for now, here is an animated version of the logo:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/logo-animatedgif.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on September 27, 2017, 03:00:17 PM
Seems like it'd be a good loading bar as well. Though I think having the laser cut out the name would be cooler, though I understand that's more complicated
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 27, 2017, 06:01:37 PM
Seems like it'd be a good loading bar as well. Though I think having the laser cut out the name would be cooler, though I understand that's more complicated

Oh... great idea!  I like it!

This one was done in After Effects, but I'm thinking it might be cool to recreate it in Unity to give in-game control of the animation.  The straight path of the laser does seem a natural fit for a loading bar.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on October 02, 2017, 12:30:11 AM
i dont care what anyone else says, i actually really ****ing love the first logo. i think it's close to perfect.

and on the topic of multiplayer: yes, this. please.
the reason there isn't an active multiplayer community for this game is because the multiplayer, according to many (excluding my easy-to-please self... let's ****in' battle, yall!) was awful. i personally crave the ability to DRIVE my robot against another human-piloted bot. that's where half the fun is! maybe your bot is designed better, or has superior weaponry, or what-have-you. but i've outwitted and manouvered you, and now you have to suck sparks, loser! that's entirely my sh**.

so please, please do that.

love~ :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on October 02, 2017, 12:39:30 AM
oh-- and do keep in mind with your question: this is a community built around a game where the most functional part of it's playability is the customization and building, so that's what your answer is going to be. i'm kind of a unicorn here in this sense because i'm more about competition than idle tinkering, and that not being the strong point of the game this commuinity is built around means that people like me (who do exist and likely don't post here because of the lack of mano y mano combat as a strength of the game) could absolutely be a target market of sorts for your game has it the technical capability to implement a solid online battle system. do keep in mind that you can certainly expand your target market outside of the average ra2 player if you pay enough mind to improve on the things where ra2 was weak, rather than just building a stronger ra2 (which limits your community to those of us who are already here, and god forbid that's all!)

makes sense?  :approve:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 06:09:17 AM
oh-- and do keep in mind with your question: this is a community built around a game where the most functional part of it's playability is the customization and building, so that's what your answer is going to be. i'm kind of a unicorn here in this sense because i'm more about competition than idle tinkering, and that not being the strong point of the game this commuinity is built around means that people like me (who do exist and likely don't post here because of the lack of mano y mano combat as a strength of the game) could absolutely be a target market of sorts for your game has it the technical capability to implement a solid online battle system. do keep in mind that you can certainly expand your target market outside of the average ra2 player if you pay enough mind to improve on the things where ra2 was weak, rather than just building a stronger ra2 (which limits your community to those of us who are already here, and god forbid that's all!)

makes sense?  :approve:

Absolutely, and I totally appreciate where you are coming from.  I thought about this a lot when I found out about the RA2 community a few months ago.  The first version of "Robot Rumble" was extremely basic (it only had one robot + 3 powerups), included no robot building at all, and was "couch multiplayer" only.  But I think it was actually fun.

Couch multiplayer is pretty easy to build, and is absolutely something we intend to do with this version.  In addition to making a really beautiful version for Steam, I'm trying to figure out how to get Unity WebGL to behave well enough to make an AirConsole version like the original so that up to 8 people can play against each other locally on their smartphones.  I'm even considering porting a WebGL version in something other than Unity just because I like AirConsole a lot, and think it has potential for a game like this.

I am really looking forward to a game where I have 4 people with PS4-style controllers sitting in a room together playing against each other with robots that they have built.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 12:46:50 PM
It has been a while since any of us has released a build to the public, so I figure it is about time to share the love.  We are playing around with a lot of things at the moment, so this version is pretty incomplete.  If you are curious, here are a few things we are trying:

1. Post-processing effects: If you select a 1-player battle, the effects are enabled.  If you select a 2-player battle, the effects are not enabled.  Otherwise, they are essentially the same screen.  Please let comment below if the post-processing effects are causing problems!

2. The BotLab exists, but @tashic is still at the very early stages of working out the mesh builder.

3. I am just starting to work on sounds now.  The only things that have sounds attached are the menu selections.

Windows: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild9-30-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild9-30-17.zip)

Mac OS: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX9-30-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX9-30-17.app.zip)

Linux: We don't have a Linux build, but please let us know if this is something that would appeal to you, and we will make one!

Screenshot:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/rr2-carbide-lensdirt2.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on October 02, 2017, 05:12:29 PM
Hey man, that's an outstanding start you guys have right there. My one gripe is just a visual one, and it's one that it shares with a lot of modern games. The lighting is a bit much. I understand that you want everything to appear real and shiny, but the lighting is almost giving the camera a haziness to it. I'd consider trying a bit less shine.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 08:15:36 PM
Hey man, that's an outstanding start you guys have right there. My one gripe is just a visual one, and it's one that it shares with a lot of modern games. The lighting is a bit much. I understand that you want everything to appear real and shiny, but the lighting is almost giving the camera a haziness to it. I'd consider trying a bit less shine.

Thank you for the feedback and the kind words!  :beer:

To be honest, I'm just learning about visual effects post-processing, and I need to do a lot of experimentation to get things right.  At this point, I am curious to see how much post-processing can be done before it starts slowing down the game to an unacceptable level.  Frame rate is more important than visual effects, and it is good to hear people say that we have too much visual effects, because it is much easier to scale them back than to add more.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on October 02, 2017, 08:33:24 PM
looking very nice so far. great start

keep up the good work
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mr. AS on October 02, 2017, 08:43:01 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 08:51:01 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mr. AS on October 02, 2017, 08:56:54 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
I've got this if that means anything:
(https://i.imgur.com/r5PA8rl.png)
It's basically a toaster.

I tried the "2P test" mode which ran far smoother than the other game modes. Maybe you could have that be the low graphics setting and the effects used in the other game modes be the high graphics setting.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 02, 2017, 09:17:12 PM
Downloaded it for myself, the special FX are definitely giving me some input lag + framerate drops. The 3D model work is coming along nicely though.

Sounds good.  What kind of a machine are you running on?

I'm curious to see if there is a big difference between running the game with an integrated GPU vs a dedicated card.

The 3D models are all @tashic's work.  He's awesome.  :smile:
I've got this if that means anything:
(https://i.imgur.com/r5PA8rl.png)
It's basically a toaster.

I tried the "2P test" mode which ran far smoother than the other game modes. Maybe you could have that be the low graphics setting and the effects used in the other game modes be the high graphics setting.

 :laughing

I had forgotten that @tomgsx had thrown in the "2P Test" mode as well.  It has pretty much nothing in the way of lighting and shadows, and is perfect for low-end machines and WebGL.

On my 2013 11" MacBook Air and 2017 Dell Inspiron Laptop with 8 GB of ram I am seeing:

1P - Runs and looks pretty, but there are a lot of frame drops.
2P - Runs smoothly.
2P Test - Runs smoothly.

It is interesting to me that the 2013 MBA and the 2017 Inspiron perform almost identically.  I suspect it is because they are limited by the onboard laptop GPUs.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on October 02, 2017, 09:24:09 PM
what are the controls for the second bot in 2P? both the wsad and arrow keys drive the P1 robot.

also it looks good so far considering it's basically the engine tashic had a few months ago with a couple of additions
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 03, 2017, 09:46:11 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 10:41:57 AM
also it looks good so far considering it's basically the engine tashic had a few months ago with a couple of additions

True!  Progress is slow, but hopefully steady.  We are doing a lot of learning and experimentation right now, which doesn't necessarily show up in the build.

what are the controls for the second bot in 2P? both the wsad and arrow keys drive the P1 robot.

They are still linked to the same robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 10:45:25 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)

Thanks for the info!  I'm hoping that older dedicated GPU cards will be able to handle the max settings.  This will give us more room to play around with particles.

What screen resolution are you running?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 03, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 01:37:37 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.

Good to know.  For the next revision I think I will get rid of the "lens dirt" and turn the bloom way down. I'm thinking we can also get rid of the ambient occlusion.  It is a nice effect, but I don't think it really adds that much when the scene is so full of hard edges.  Motion blur is cool too, but I think we have a better way to do motion blur that doesn't require any post-processing.

If you don't mind my asking, in the "2 Player" mode, are you seeing 60 fps?  This scene doesn't have any post-processing at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on October 03, 2017, 01:41:27 PM
Some feedback.
I would like to agree with kill and say that the post-processing is way too much. The shine and lens effects are really distracting. I image at some point it should be possible for these to be togglable.
What sort of framerates are you expecting? I'm supposedly getting 25fps on my 980ti in 1080p windowed which seems a bit low.

Good to know.  For the next revision I think I will get rid of the "lens dirt" and turn the bloom way down. I'm thinking we can also get rid of the ambient occlusion.  It is a nice effect, but I don't think it really adds that much when the scene is so full of hard edges.  Motion blur is cool too, but I think we have a better way to do motion blur that doesn't require any post-processing.

If you don't mind my asking, in the "2 Player" mode, are you seeing 60 fps?  This scene doesn't have any post-processing at all.
I was puzzled by the low FPS and it turns out that the game isn't putting almost any load on my GPU unless I click out of the game. Then it shoots to over 250fps and 100% GPU load.
In "2 Player" the same 25fps occurs but I get over 500fps when I click out of the window leaving Carbide's weapon spinning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: geese on October 03, 2017, 01:47:36 PM
I played around with it earlier. It seems the higher graphic options have vsync enabled as it capped the fps to my monitor's refresh rates, but that's not really an issue for a robot combat game.

I was able to consistently hit 240 fps @1080p and 60 fps @4k with a 1080ti

@s_m iirc had a similar issue when I ran it windowed.

 :thumbup from me. Can't wait to see where this goes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 02:59:56 PM
Here is a new build.  I got rid of the lens dirt, ambient occlusion, and motion blur, and scaled way back on the bloom in the "1 Player" scene.

It should look better, and hopefully perform better:

http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild10-3-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild10-3-17.zip)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on October 03, 2017, 03:05:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7gpZZJq.jpg)

Newest build is pretty good. I noticed that my framerate improved when I was right in the corners, like directly in the spotlights, and worsened in the middle of the arena.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 03, 2017, 03:24:45 PM

Newest build is pretty good. I noticed that my framerate improved when I was right in the corners, like directly in the spotlights, and worsened in the middle of the arena.

Weird.  I wonder if it has to do with how much of the screen is being replaced every frame...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WenXiangLee on October 03, 2017, 07:10:02 PM
I will try this game in Friday.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on October 04, 2017, 03:24:12 AM
Running good on my HD7950 (but then. It is 3gb)

Thanks for the info!  I'm hoping that older dedicated GPU cards will be able to handle the max settings.  This will give us more room to play around with particles.

What screen resolution are you running?

640X480
Well.. I have a sh** monitor sooo.. 720p (but i think that it would run above 60fps on 1080p)
Full specs (and a bit of a huuuuge bottleneck):
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 (dual core 2.6 ghz, not OC)
RAM: 4 Gigs DDR2
GPU: Sapphire HD 7950 Boost Edition, 3gb vram
OS: Windows 10 pro, 64 bit
(I ordered Phenom X4, and 8 gigs of DDR3, so will see how it works)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 08:54:54 PM
@tashic, @tomgsx, @AnarchyFox  and I have been tooling away for the past few weeks working on all sorts of things.  We wanted to get a new build out in time for Thanksgiving here in the US, so here is the latest!  Enjoy!

Windows Build: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-20-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-20-17.zip)

Mac Build: http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-20-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-20-17.app.zip)

New for this build:

Arena:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/arena-processed.png)

Lava Pit:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/lavapit-processed.png)

Warehouse:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/warehouse-processed.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dreamcast on November 20, 2017, 09:00:48 PM
I'm gonna download because I want that lava pit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 09:04:15 PM
I'm gonna download because I want that lava pit.

No damage system is in place yet, but the pit exists! Progress! :)

Also, the AI doesn't realize the pit exists either, so...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 20, 2017, 09:06:14 PM
...and saving the best for last, here is a first look at the BotLab (@AnarchyFox  - design, @tashic - interface and logic):

A long shot of the workbench:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/botlabbench.png)

A closeup of a robot being built using @tashic's mesh builder:
(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/buildingarobot.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on November 21, 2017, 12:29:36 AM
This already looks better than ra3 guys. Amazing job. Need to test it when I get home
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2017, 04:48:40 PM
This already looks better than ra3 guys. Amazing job. Need to test it when I get home

Thank you for the kind words!

We are doing the best we can, but we still have a long way to go before the game is as good as RA2/RA3.

Speaking of a that, I just uploaded a new version with damage and heat in the 2-Player arenas.  The game is now playable as a game!

Here are the new links:

Windows Build - http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-21-17.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/windows/RobotRumbleWindowsBuild11-21-17.zip)

Mac Build - http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-21-17.app.zip (http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/macos/builds-OSX11-21-17.app.zip)

Enjoy!  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: sk8rjess on November 25, 2017, 03:50:14 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on November 25, 2017, 04:31:25 PM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on November 25, 2017, 05:29:17 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.

Welcome to the forum
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FOTEPX on November 25, 2017, 05:37:15 PM
So, the next things you need to add, ordered from easiest to hardest-

Recognition of OOTA's/Pittings (Will allow for more strategy)

Limited battery life/flipper gas (Eruption can just flip forever right now)

Fix the Warehouse's cameras (I tried a test fight and couldn't see anything)

Smoke/fire effects for damaged components (Good visual indicator, plus adds some flair)

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

1 more robot, then support for up to 4 AI's at once (The dream is of course to be able to do massive multi-bot rumbles at some point.)

Softbody physics (yeah this is never happening)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dadddjent on November 25, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
THIS LOOKS ****IN SWEET MAN
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 25, 2017, 07:05:07 PM
I signed up just to post. I'm pretty excited about the development and time you guys have put into this. I'm a web dev but you guys make me want to learn unity so I can help. Keep up the good work.. seriously so stoked for this.

I will say I think your latest build had some issues. When starting in 1p i couldn't control carbide. Original sin and eruption did their own thing as if it wanted to have a UI but didn't know what to do. the workshop didn't do anything for me either.

We are thrilled that you are excited about it!  It helps to have people excited about the project when there is so much work left to do.

I think one of the lessons learned on this particular build is to not enable any functions that shouldn’t be tested.  At this point the “1 Player” menu option is redundant, and we haven’t bothered to get rid of it, as it doesn’t do anything that the “2 Player” mode does.  Likewise for the “2P Test” menu option.  We use it to test out new ideas that will eventually be migrated into the game.

The BotLab is partially functional at this point. You can create 3D meshes and assemble the meshes you have created in any size and orientation.  It is pretty neat that it works, but it isn’t obvious how it works at this point.  Once all of the functionality exists, we will need to do a lot of UI/UX work and testing to make robot building as smooth and intuitive as possible.

We will try to post our development here, but I encourage you to sign up for the mailing list on www.robot-rumble.com to receive news and updates.  We will also be using the mailing list to sign people up for beta testing when we are ready for it.  It is still pretty early in the development cycle, but I am hoping to be ready for beta in about 12 months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 25, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
So, the next things you need to add, ordered from easiest to hardest-

Recognition of OOTA's/Pittings (Will allow for more strategy)

Limited battery life/flipper gas (Eruption can just flip forever right now)

Fix the Warehouse's cameras (I tried a test fight and couldn't see anything)

Smoke/fire effects for damaged components (Good visual indicator, plus adds some flair)

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

1 more robot, then support for up to 4 AI's at once (The dream is of course to be able to do massive multi-bot rumbles at some point.)

Softbody physics (yeah this is never happening)

Thanks for the encouragement!

Regarding OOTA/pitting, I am just starting to go through the DSL AI .py files now to figure out how to implement tactics to take advantage of arena hazards.  I will start by hard-coding tactics, but at some point I want to figure out how to integrate tactics building directly into the BotLab.  Ideally, there should be a way to do this that gives all of the flexibility of Python, but is easy to use, and is built right into the game’s UI.

Softbody physics would be great, but we are trying to be very careful to not overload the CPU, and to do deformable bodies we would need to add a lot more vertices.  The option isn’t off the table, but it is competing with other things like more robots, increasing framerate, and particle systems.

In general, though, the damage system needs to “feel right”, and it doesn’t at this point.  I’m hoping to this out over the next few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 26, 2017, 05:13:39 AM
This version is just nice. There is some stuff to do tho.. most of it is already said soo..
If you need arenas i can make some (you will need 3ds max skills tho)
Ive been messing in botlab and made this... (Still wishing for that sketchup mode of building. Maybe add an extenstion to port designs from 3dsmax or sketchup to the game)
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on November 26, 2017, 10:41:54 AM
Been loving it so far, though I've noticed a few bugs and issues. 1 is that Eruption turns really slowly, making it a bit sluggish to drive and that it doesn't actually pivot where the wheels are. 2. With the camera when I set it to a camera other than 1 and fire the weapon it'll swap camera usually back to camera 1 but sometimes it's change to camera 2. And finally when you destroy carbide the bar can still damage you, which I do find entertaining but would be frustrating in melee's n what not. This is still in great condition so far and I cannot wait to see what you'll add next.  :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 26, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
This version is just nice. There is some stuff to do tho.. most of it is already said soo..
If you need arenas i can make some (you will need 3ds max skills tho)
Ive been messing in botlab and made this... (Still wishing for that sketchup mode of building. Maybe add an extenstion to port designs from 3dsmax or sketchup to the game)
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Thanks!

When you said you are wishing for "that sketchup mode of building", are you referring to a UI that is similar to Google Sketchup, or are you thinking that there should be a way to import models created in Sketchup?  If it is the former, do you have any ideas about how to make the UI more user-friendly?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: sk8rjess on November 26, 2017, 06:44:46 PM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.

Could have just been my system but I was unable to do anything. I understand the development stage, but I felt like I should have been able to at least click and drag to model as it seems others have been able to do?

Welcome to the forum

Thank you! Long time RA2 player here. I even used the bot builder back in high school to help model flyers for a robot fighting tourney.


We are thrilled that you are excited about it!  It helps to have people excited about the project when there is so much work left to do.

I think one of the lessons learned on this particular build is to not enable any functions that shouldn’t be tested.  At this point the “1 Player” menu option is redundant, and we haven’t bothered to get rid of it, as it doesn’t do anything that the “2 Player” mode does.  Likewise for the “2P Test” menu option.  We use it to test out new ideas that will eventually be migrated into the game.

The BotLab is partially functional at this point. You can create 3D meshes and assemble the meshes you have created in any size and orientation.  It is pretty neat that it works, but it isn’t obvious how it works at this point.  Once all of the functionality exists, we will need to do a lot of UI/UX work and testing to make robot building as smooth and intuitive as possible.

We will try to post our development here, but I encourage you to sign up for the mailing list on www.robot-rumble.com to receive news and updates.  We will also be using the mailing list to sign people up for beta testing when we are ready for it.  It is still pretty early in the development cycle, but I am hoping to be ready for beta in about 12 months.

Signed up! I'll remember that for 1 player. Keep up the great work guys.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 27, 2017, 09:35:37 AM
Right now is in very early development so you can expect bugs and issues as a lot of things we are still figuring out.
But good to see we are getting some attention!

Also what about the workshop didn't feel right? Again, still in development and things aren't really explained to the player at the moment.

Could have just been my system but I was unable to do anything. I understand the development stage, but I felt like I should have been able to at least click and drag to model as it seems others have been able to do?

To edit something in the BotLab:

1. Click "Structure Workshop".
2. Under "Structure List", select "Chassis".
3. Click "Edit".
4. Click "Custom".
5. Draw a shape using the tool.
6. Click "Add layer" to make the shape into a 3D mesh.
7. ***Use the middle mouse button to rotate the shape around so you can see it in 3D.
8. You can go back and edit each layer of points to get the desired shape.
9. When you are happy, hit "Next".
10. Pick a setting for the Collision Generator.
11. Click "Save" to save the shape.
12. The new shape is now added to the "Shape List".

NOTE*** - The current UI relies on the middle mouse button to rotate the view.  If you are using a trackpad on a laptop, you are currently out of luck.  I am hoping to add trackpad support in a future build, as I use a MacBook Air as my daily driver, and I hate to carry a mouse around with me if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 10:36:27 AM
We've been busy creating over the past month, and are hoping to put together a build in the next day or two (Merry Christmas!).  In advance of that, here are a few of the things we have been working on:

1. BotLab - The chassis builder is really close.  Now @Tashic is working on the ability to add components.  Right now, there is only one component in the list, a 10" AmpFlow wheel.

2. Navmesh - We are using the new Unity NavMeshSurface component to dynamically generate Navmeshes.  This will allow for robots to navigate through user-generated arenas.

3. AI Pathfinding Lines - The current build draws lines to indicated where each robot is currently trying to drive to.  This includes pathfinding around obstacles.  It is really interesting to watch as each robot shifts its target path as it moves.

4. Pneumatics system components - Eruption is using a new pneumatics system behind the scenes in this build, with three new components: CO2 Cylinder, Buffer Tank, and Piston.  This new system will be incorporated into the BotLab in the "Actuators" section in a future build.  In order to build a pneumatics system in the game, there are four key attributes:
a. CO2 tank capacity - Dictates how many "shots" can be fired before running out of gas.
b. Buffer tank capacity - Controls the shape of the pressure vs extension curve for the piston.  In particular, this dictates the amount of pressure the piston sees when the piston is fully extended.
c. Piston stroke length - This controls the geometry of the system.  A longer flipper stroke means a greater flipper actuation distance, but also a lower pressure at full extension, and more gas used.
d. Piston diameter - This controls the force exerted by the piston.  A larger diameter piston means more force (proportional to diameter squared), but more gas used per stroke.

5. Arena Builder (PREVIEW COMING SOON!) - The arena builder is still in its infancy.  I don't think we will be ready to preview the arena builder on the next build, but hopefully we will have something to show soon!

6. Sumo Basho Arena - @AnarchyFox was kind enough to port this one over from a previous project.  It is super simple, looks great, and works really well for testing basic robot AI.

7. 5-Robot Limit - We are pushing the CPU really hard, and it looks like the limit to the number of robots in a given match is somewhere between 5-6 robots.  We are including a 5-player version of the "Test Arena" so people can see how chaotic things can get with 5 robots in one battle.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on December 22, 2017, 10:56:29 AM
I like the idea of the pneumatic system having its own individual components. it feels like those parts could be adapted to serve in a similar fashion in crusher/hydraulic systems as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
I like the idea of the pneumatic system having its own individual components. it feels like those parts could be adapted to serve in a similar fashion in crusher/hydraulic systems as well.

That's what we were thinking too.  The extra parts definitely take up space, so there is now a balancing act to do, and you really need to decide if the extra space is worth it, versus just using motors.  It is also possible to run a pneumatic system without a buffer tank, but the amount of force produced is extremely limited by the rate of evaporation of the CO2 as it leave the high pressure tank.

Eruption is the gold standard, so I did some tweaking to get the numbers to feel right.  I'm thinking it is okay to have a pneumatics system that is less powerful than Eruption's but going much more powerful than that would be so weight- and space-inefficient that it shouldn't be worth the tradeoff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:03:38 PM
The new builds are up on our brand new itch.io page!

Here is the link:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

In addition to this thread, we will be posting periodic updates on Twitter: https://twitter.com/robotrumblegame (https://twitter.com/robotrumblegame)

The official website also contains a signup page for game-related emails.  When we are ready to go into beta testing, we are planning to use the email list for beta testers, so please sign up there if you are interested in Beta testing (hopefully next year!).  The official game website is: http://robot-rumble.com
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:07:11 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/5-robotrumble.png)

This is a picture of a 5-robot battle.  Note the lines indicating each robot AI's path to its target.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:08:55 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/sumobasho.png)

Sumo Basho!

This is a tricky arena against an AI opponent.  There isn't much space, and it is easy to accidentally fall off.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 02:10:55 PM
(http://robot-rumble.com/10inchwheelsonarobot.png)

10" AmpFlow wheels.  They are all you can add at the moment.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on December 22, 2017, 03:00:56 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 03:54:53 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Drat!  I will try to fix it tonight.  Sorry about that!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 22, 2017, 04:51:25 PM
This is looking really, really promising. Keep up the good work you guys!

edit: downloading the windows build exe and trying to run it gives me this error:
(https://i.imgur.com/JeKBXzB.png)
seems like you forgot to package the rest of the files with it

Fixed!  I accidentally included just the .exe, rather than the .zip with all of the files.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on December 22, 2017, 09:00:01 PM
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:
(https://i.gyazo.com/db062167e5f73f8d4692084a162e4f5f.jpg)

Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on December 22, 2017, 09:41:33 PM
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2017, 04:04:33 AM
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 08:12:56 AM
Crashes on startup for me every time I try to run it. If I had to guess at the cause I'd say it might be that I have sh**ty integrated intel HD graphics on my laptop, but I can't be certain. I could well have ****ed up the install somehow. Here's the popup I get. I can also send you the crash logs if you'd like.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Ahh yes!  Our first crash logs! :)

There are four of us building the game, and I was hoping that if were stable for all four of us on different machines that it would be stable for pretty much everyone.  I'm using a 2013 11" MacBook Air with Intel graphics myself, and it is running pretty well, but I do have 8 GB of RAM.  Maybe I can dust off an old Windows laptop from the closet to see if I can reproduce the crash...

Would you mind sending the crash log to developers@nerdislandstudios.com?

Also, details of your machine's OS and specifications would be really helpful.  Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 08:33:07 AM
I absolutely love the game, so far. I don't know if it actually emulates real life, but I found that the person taking the initiative to move towards the opponent, when they have the same wedge (Eruption vs Eruption), always loses the wedge war. It lead to me losing to Eruption (as Eruption) over and over again until I realised all I had to do was not move, which shouldn't be what anyone should come to the conclusion to. I don't know how much useful this feedback is, honestly, considering the game is in the early stages of development and the pre-built bots are just a demo. Not to mention that I was using a bot against an exact copy of itself. I just thought I'd mention it, anyway. It did make me cry out in joy when I saw this, tho:
(https://i.gyazo.com/db062167e5f73f8d4692084a162e4f5f.jpg)

Edit: After doing Original Sin v Eruption, that could be the way the wedge war works, in this game. Hopefully, this is just because the game is too early in development.

In all honesty, I never get my hopes up too much whenever I see anything like this pop up because the projects usually get abandoned, after a while. Either that or progress on them is made at the pace of a snail dragging a boulder. Nevertheless, I wish you an incredible amount of luck with this project. I really appreciate that you're working on this.

Agreed on all counts! 

Right now Eruption's "tactics" consist of the following:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. Fire flipper the instant you collide with enemy.
3. Back up slightly until the flipper is reset.
4. Repeat step #1.

Carbide is even simpler:

1. Drive toward enemy.
2. When in range, turn on spinner.


We did a bunch of play testing with my robotics club students, and they found that the computer AI is frustratingly difficult to beat.  The computer is 100% agressive, and unlike in RA2, there is no "thinking delay" for the computer to evaluate its list of tactics.  All in all, I thought it was really good training for my students, who are going to take their real-life robots into battle at the end of February, but not so great for a game where it would be nice to be able to win against a computer opponent every once in a while.

There needs to be a balance, and, unless the game is designed to be AI vs AI, it isn't fair that a computer has zero reaction time when a human has a reaction time on the order of 2/10ths of a second.  On the flip side, the computer is stupid when it comes to hazards.  Right now it is not really avoiding hazards, it just marks an area around a hazard that is "not drivable".  As a human, you can exploit these areas by positioning yourself or the computer in them, then watch as the computer tries to get back to a drivable area.  It also doesn't have any sense of positioning itself or you with respect to the hazard, so you can use that to force the AI into a hazard.

I'm hoping that as I build out the AI system, things will start to come into better balance between computer and human.  We'll see. :)


After reading through a decade and a half of game development threads on here, I understand the sentiment about losing faith in abandoned development efforts.   The good news is that this is not Nerd Island Studios' first multi-year project, it is the fifth, and I am committed to seeing this one through.  It is, however, the most ambitious project I have ever started, and has required the development of more tech than any of the other projects.  We are shooting for a total development time of about 2000 hours, and I think we are on track for a mid-2019 launch.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2017, 09:55:14 AM
Great progress so far!
I've taken some time to test it thoroughly and here are some notices
- So anytime a select a camera, W and S move the camera setting, and if i press space (weapon button) it selects the camera, which is annoying. Could you remap the camera buttons to f1, f2 & f3 (like in ra2)
- AI Eruption doesn't self right
- Eruption's flipper is too op in damage, or bots are fragile af
- Carbide deals no damage, or force, which makes me think if there is enough weight on spinner for force to flung enemies
Some wishes:
- Immobile countdown timer
- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker
- Material for maker (Steel, alu, etc..., great for comp maker)
- Camera that follows you and AI (Something like Action cam in ra2)
- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)
All in all great progress and i wish you the best!

Oh man, thanks for all of the great feedback!

1.  Thanks for pointing out camera control mapping.  I'm working on a MacBook without quick access to F-keys, so we might do number keys instead.  Either way, controls up at the top of the keyboard would probably work great. 
2.  Self-righting should be working.  I must have accidentally nerfed it when I rebuilt the pneumatics system.
3.  Damage is our next big thing to tackle.  Right now, damage is based entirely on Joules of energy absorbed, not on force.  This works great for things like "my robot just bashed into a wall and is taking internal damage as components are jostled", but completely ignores things like pincher weapons that apply a consistent force over time.  Right now I am thinking a hybrid of the two might be best.
4. Countdown timer -- check! :)
5. I'll defer to @tashic regarding the component maker. 
6. The ability to make arbitrary 3D shapes exists, but right now there is no texturing/materials.
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
8. I will defer to @tashic regarding attachment points as well.

This is a great list.  I expect to knock out a least a few of these over the next month or so.  The biggest one is damage, followed by a more robust AI system.  The game still doesn't feel right, with AI being *too* perfect.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2017, 10:30:54 AM
7. Which key gets follow camera control?  This should be really easy to do.
Prolly 4, as it would then be 1,2,3,4
Keep up the good work, and take your time (all of you guys)
Doing RW2016 arena ATM so if you need one, i can send you a model
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FOTEPX on December 23, 2017, 10:44:53 AM
Okay, so you actually added quite a lot of my suggestions! Nice one!  :claping

The only thing that doesn't seem to be added is:

Ability to rip off components (I know it's possible because they fly off when you disable an opponent, but I haven't been able to rip off a single wheel or anything like that)

...But I understand your point about getting the damage system right first before adding ripping off components as a factor.

Hmm... What else can I think of to add?

-More Robots!!!

-When I did the 4-bot rumble in the test arena, if me or my opponent died, the fight just ended instead of the remaining two fighting it out to a win. I'm guessing this is because 2+ players hasn't been properly implemented yet, and those two extra robots you added aren't recognised by the game as p3 and p4? Hmm...

-Whenever either the human or the AI wins a fight, the controls get jammed and the bot just keeps on doing whatever the last input was. For example, if you were going forward when you won the fight, you'll just keep going forward and run into a wall. I think you should be able to control your robot after the fight, instead of having it taken away from you.

-RUMBLE MODE!!! Select your bot, select "Rumble Mode" for the opponent bot, and then a slider shows up, that can go from 2 to 99. Yes, 100-bot rumbles. I don't care if it runs at 0.1FPS, I want it. The however-many bots are selected at random from the pool, as long as they're at the correct weight class.

-Ooh, speaking of weight classes, how about adding that in next? I know right now all the bots are HW, but just labelling them as such should help when you do add MW's, LW's, FW's, AW's etc...

Can't think of anything else right now, but I'm pretty sure stuff'll come to me around the same time the next update rolls around. Until then, keep up the hard work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 23, 2017, 05:51:00 PM

- Maybe a component maker, something like a chassis maker

- RA2 like attach point system (maybe add a button to enable/disable it)


There already is a component maker, the way it works is that you make individual macro-parts (flippers, hammers, discs, whatever)
that I called "structures" by using groups of "shapes", and I have made a ra2 chassis style tool to make custom shapes.
These macro-parts can then be used in the "robot assembly" part of the botlab.

I'm still thinking how to handle attachment points, with the system that I made I don't think something exactly like ra2 is good, I can see attachments useful to set a custom "origin" point that isn't the center of the grid (or the center of mass as I will probably change).
I'm thinking of adding a snap function for moving/rotating/scaling parts in 3d space to allow for an easier time making symmetric robots if you don't want to type the exact values in the input fields.
And I plan to make a "center" function mainly for axles and wheels/spinners.

I'm now trying to figure out a way to make the system feel more natural, as I see it's not the most intuitive. But hopefully it will be worth it with a degree of freedom higher than in our current dsl ra2.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: dragonsteincole on December 23, 2017, 07:08:56 PM
Regarding attachment points, I think Kerbal Space Program has a decent builder which may be applicable to this game. There are attach points that are pre-defined on certain items, where you can only attach AP to AP. i.e a wheel onto a motor's axle. But also allowing other parts to snap freely onto a surface or part. i.e a tooth on a bar/disc for weapons, skirts on bodywork. It also has options for symmetry, precise snapping to a surface, translation and rotation tools as well, which I think would work well for a bot builder, in comparison to RA2 which is closer to LEGO-style building.

It would be nice to have defined weightclasses as well, but not have the limits, or the number of weightclasses be a set, unchangeable value.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 23, 2017, 07:17:19 PM
Yea, in fact I got heavy inspiration from KSP itself, with the move/rotate tools.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2018, 06:28:59 PM
I just put Robot Rumble 2.0 on an iPhone 7 Plus, and here is the result:

https://youtu.be/AXSi9qrPtWw (https://youtu.be/AXSi9qrPtWw)

The game runs solidly during combat, but the BotLab crashes as soon as you try to load it.  This might be fine -- a limited action-oriented version of the game for mobile/Apple TV/console, with the BotLab and Arena Builder reserved for the full version on Windows/Mac/Linux.

Speaking of which, has anyone tried the Linux build yet?  It should work okay, but I don't have a machine set up to test it.

Sometime over the next few days I am going to try to get the game running on Apple TV for local multiplayer with two controllers.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on January 01, 2018, 06:52:52 PM
Looks like it runs really well on mobile.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: mjstone on January 13, 2018, 09:24:40 PM
I've just downloaded the linux version and this is what I get.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2018, 09:58:27 AM
I've just downloaded the linux version and this is what I get.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Thanks for trying this!

I might have to create my own linux machine to test it.  Apparently the crash details are buried somewhere in a log file:

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LogFiles.html
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on January 16, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
Maybe i can try to test it.
Or you can use VM
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on January 16, 2018, 10:18:36 AM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on January 16, 2018, 12:12:29 PM
It's been a while but I don't remember input lag. I imagine it's your laptop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 16, 2018, 04:28:44 PM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?

We haven't included any input lag in the simulation.  What are the specs for your laptop?  Are you using keyboard controls?

The game works great on my 2013 11" MacBook Air, but I am curious to see how low we can go with acceptable performance.  I am hoping to target midrange phones and WebGL.  Phones will probably be okay, but I'm struggling to get WebGL working, not sure why at this point.  We might have to wait for the Steam launch before looking into the WebGL version again.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on January 16, 2018, 05:34:48 PM
I didn't experience input lag but I'm on a mid-range machine
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on January 17, 2018, 02:41:59 AM
Wow, This is really cool! I had a lot of fun throwing carbide around the arena
However, am I the only one experiencing severe input lag? It seems to take about a second for the game to register my inputs. Idk if its just my low spec laptop or whether it was an intended feature to simulate IRL robot controls maybe?

We haven't included any input lag in the simulation.  What are the specs for your laptop?  Are you using keyboard controls?

The game works great on my 2013 11" MacBook Air, but I am curious to see how low we can go with acceptable performance.  I am hoping to target midrange phones and WebGL.  Phones will probably be okay, but I'm struggling to get WebGL working, not sure why at this point.  We might have to wait for the Steam launch before looking into the WebGL version again.

After testing on my beefier desktop PC, the input lag seemed to disappear, so it seems it was just my laptop not being powerful enough.

My laptop specs are:
AMD Quad-Core Processor A6-6310 2.4GHz
6GB RAM
AMD Radeon R4 Graphics

It turns out the game only runs at 15fps on this (even on the fastest graphic setting), which is probably what was causing input issues. It was a lot smoother on my desktop
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 24, 2018, 02:26:32 PM
Seems cjbruce hasn't posted about it here yet but there's a new build out, with breakable components, new components for the bot lab, and a prototype version of the arena builder, among other things. I'm only posting about it because I want to offer some feedback:


Still looks great and feels great, though. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 24, 2018, 04:17:10 PM
Seems cjbruce hasn't posted about it here yet but there's a new build out, with breakable components, new components for the bot lab, and a prototype version of the arena builder, among other things. I'm only posting about it because I want to offer some feedback:

  • The new immobility countdown flickers a lot, which is irritating, and if multiple robots aren't moving then it switches between them rather than each robot having an individual countdown
  • The text is wonky on some of the buttons (esp. in the arena builder). Dunno if that's just coz I'm playing in 720p windowed mode though.
  • The sound balance feels off - some sounds are too loud, others are too quiet. Dunno if it's just me.
  • Eruption's flipper apparently has a limited amount of CO2 but I don't see that indicated anywhere in the UI - if the blue gauge is CO2, then it's not depleting
  • If you click "Help" in the Robot Lab, it spawns a fully-finished robot that then sinks through the table. You can spawn them indefinitely and fill the lab with them. Amusing, but probably not intended?

Still looks great and feels great, though. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say. Keep up the good work!

You beat me to the punch!

I was trying to concurrently wrap up this build and manage our high school's robot combat club.  Here a little taste of the last three days' festivities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkBFa6RCV0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CkBFa6RCV0)

This new build has a lot going on behind the scenes.  I have been doing a ton of experimentation with driving, AI, and physics.  I also put in place the immobility timer.  There is also a component damage system, and Eruption is built with the new CO2 gas system.  Most of this stuff doesn't include any user feedback yet, so you won't know that a wheel is taking damage until it falls off, and you won't know if you are out of gas until the pneumatics stop working.  It is all there, we just need to add sound and particle effects so that there is an indication that something is wrong before it just stops working.

@tashic has been really busy with the BotLab.  It still isn't ready to make a complete robot, but a rudimentary saving system exists.  You can see the save files as robot.txt in one of the game directories.  At a minimum, we would like to get to the point where you can manually share robot files around like you do with RA2.   If we have time, we might be able to automate the process, but this is more of an aspirational goal at this point, and it is more important to nail down the basic functionality.

@anarchy_fox has been working hard on the Arena Builder.  A lot of the stuff from the BotLab should be reusable in here, but we are still very early in the development.

To everyone who has tested it already, thank you!

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 24, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
Gave the newest build a shot, it's starting to look like a very solid base for a full game. I've found some bugs and I have some suggestions.

Bugs:
Some z-fighting with the dummy bot, particularly on the warehouse stage. At one point the mesh floor on the warehouse briefly displayed over the dummy bot's decal.

Suggestions/Compaints:
Eruption's flipper feels super anaemic.
Carbide's spinner feels like it's very slow, but with a ton of torque.
Everything feels like it has way too much HP. Except once an AI Carbide's blade fell off just by hitting my Eruption, with no non-HP damage being cause to my Eruption.
It's difficult to figure out what's doing damage when Original Sin's opponent is taking damage. Is it impact with the arena wall? Contact with the wedge arm things? It feels inconsistent.
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
Eruption's limited CO2 supply is realistic, but not very fun at all, especially with how weak its flipper is. Maybe give a debug option to allow unlimited flips?
Part of what made RA2 so long-lasting was the fact that component data was stored in a user-editable format, allowing for customization. Would it be possible to read robot data from text files, allowing the user to edit carbine's spinner speed or eruption's flipper power, for example?

I had a couple more bugs and inconsistencies but I've forgotten them now. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: I also managed to flip the DB out of the sumo arena without the DB being killed or the round ending
(https://i.imgur.com/zGRbda1.jpg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on February 25, 2018, 02:45:17 AM
where can I find the latest build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on February 25, 2018, 03:07:20 AM
Link to the latest build:
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WenXiangLee on February 25, 2018, 04:49:04 AM
Link to the latest build:
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds
fixed
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on February 25, 2018, 05:06:56 AM
About that help button spawning a robot, that was really for testing the script for recreating from the bot file.

What I want to eventually do with the help button is, well, give the player some idea on what things in the botlab do, that I fully understand isn't clear at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on February 25, 2018, 05:45:11 AM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 25, 2018, 10:06:41 AM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Oh yeah, that was one of the bugs I forgot, Eruption always spawns facing backward.

Also might be nice if the dummy bot was invertible, so it can better serve its purpose as a punching bag. Just my personal opinion
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 25, 2018, 12:15:54 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:13:54 PM
Gave the newest build a shot, it's starting to look like a very solid base for a full game. I've found some bugs and I have some suggestions.

Bugs:
Some z-fighting with the dummy bot, particularly on the warehouse stage. At one point the mesh floor on the warehouse briefly displayed over the dummy bot's decal.

Suggestions/Compaints:
Eruption's flipper feels super anaemic.
Carbide's spinner feels like it's very slow, but with a ton of torque.
Everything feels like it has way too much HP. Except once an AI Carbide's blade fell off just by hitting my Eruption, with no non-HP damage being cause to my Eruption.
It's difficult to figure out what's doing damage when Original Sin's opponent is taking damage. Is it impact with the arena wall? Contact with the wedge arm things? It feels inconsistent.
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
Eruption's limited CO2 supply is realistic, but not very fun at all, especially with how weak its flipper is. Maybe give a debug option to allow unlimited flips?
Part of what made RA2 so long-lasting was the fact that component data was stored in a user-editable format, allowing for customization. Would it be possible to read robot data from text files, allowing the user to edit carbine's spinner speed or eruption's flipper power, for example?

I had a couple more bugs and inconsistencies but I've forgotten them now. Oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit: I also managed to flip the DB out of the sumo arena without the DB being killed or the round ending
(https://i.imgur.com/zGRbda1.jpg)

Nice catch on the z-fighting.  I need to get smart on Unity decals.  All of the robots were modeled in 3DS Max, rather than using the in-game BotLab, so we will need to revisit this when the BotLab is ready for production.

Carbide’s spinner is actually spinning very quickly, but the on-screen representation of its speed is poor.  The game only shows its position every 1/60th of a second rather than as the continuous blur that you would see in real life.  I was hoping that I could avoid addressing this, as it is a more difficult problem to create cylindrical blur for the arbitrary spinning objects that people will create in the BotLab.  I have a few ideas on how to do this, but it might take an iteration or two to get it to look right.

Thanks for the feedback on Eruption’s flipper.  It used to be insanely powerful, so I toned it way down. Increasing the force is an easy fix.  For those of you who are curious, the flipper has the following exposed variables, all of which will be adjustable in the BotLab:
piston diameter
piston stroke length
high pressure cylinder CO2 capacity
buffer tank volume

The lack of Hit Point indication is big problem.  I would like to avoid damage numbers appearing above the robots, like in RA2.  Ideally, a player will see sparks, smoke, damage decals, and hear sound to indicate how much damage has occurred to a particular component.  I would like to reserve damage numbers as a last resort.

The hit point bar shows damage only to the body of the robot.  Original Sin is surrounded by parts that take damage separately from the body (wheels and wedgelets).  You have to knock off these parts before you can start damaging the body of the robot easily.

The heat bar is pretty much nonfunctional at the moment.  The intent is to have heat dissipation, heat generation, and environmental heat sources (lava pit or flames).  When a motor overheats, it shuts down, and if temperature gets too high, components take damage.

I agree that there needs to be some indication of remaining CO2.  There also needs to be sn indication (venting gas) that a CO2 leak has occurred, and whether it is a slow leak or a catastrophic leak.

I like the idea of user-editable components. @tashic, is this something we can put into the BotLab directly?

I will take a look at the OOTA volumes for the Sumo Basho arena.  It should be a simple fix to add more volumes.

Thanks for all of the great feedback!  I’m pretty swamped with another project right now, but I hope to have another release out by the end of March.

Also, for those of you who are curious, we are planning to have public releases like these until the first Alpha release.  The first Alpha release will be the first “Vertical Slice” and contain all of the basic functionality for the game (BotLab fully integrated with the arena and arena builder).  After that, we will do closed Beta releases, so if you are interested in the closed Betas, be sure to sign up to be a beta-tester on www.robot-rumble.com!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:24:31 PM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising

This was a problem with the way models were imported from 3DS Max, and shouldn’t be an issue for things created in the BotLab.  Unless a miracle occurs and we can get permission to use Eruption in the released game, the problem will go away with the Eruption model.

Something is wrong with the Sumo Basho arena physics, but I haven’t been able to find the problem.  We might need to rebuild the arena when the Arena Builder is ready.

I kind of like seeing the AI path line.  You are probably right that we should turn it off though.  :smile:

Thanks for the support and feedback!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:27:02 PM
What badger said.
Also the start points seem a bit odd. Like robots often start facing away from each other but sometimes not. I tried a match with original sin in the sumo ring and the physics pushed me out right when I spawned. I could also see the path that AI was planning to take. I assume that's just a debug feature that isn't normally supposed to be visible.

But other than that, great work. I'm looking forward to seeing the robot and arena editors in a more developed form. Looks very promising
Oh yeah, that was one of the bugs I forgot, Eruption always spawns facing backward.

Also might be nice if the dummy bot was invertible, so it can better serve its purpose as a punching bag. Just my personal opinion

Agreed!  We have D.B. Mk II coming in the next build, so it will be an easy change to make.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 25, 2018, 03:28:10 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on February 26, 2018, 05:04:35 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
It was just something I happened to notice while playing the latest build. What clinched it was when I started turning and the bar started filling up faster, because I had three motors running instead of one. Controlling overheating sounds like an interesting game mechanic (and should make it harder for people to make unrealistic bots with tonnes of weapon/drive motors ;) )
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on March 01, 2018, 07:36:46 PM
What does the bar under the HP bar represent? Would be useful for it to show CO2 levels on Eruption or spinner speed on Carbide
On Carbide, at least, it appears to represent motor temperature or something. If you have the weapon spinning for too long, the bar starts to fill with red, and you have to release the weapon button to get it to lower again. I don't know what happens if the bar fills all the way up but I'm guessing the weapon just stops working.

Heck yeah, 500 posts

You are correct on all counts!  Nice detective work!  (and a little bit scary) :smile:
It was just something I happened to notice while playing the latest build. What clinched it was when I started turning and the bar started filling up faster, because I had three motors running instead of one. Controlling overheating sounds like an interesting game mechanic (and should make it harder for people to make unrealistic bots with tonnes of weapon/drive motors ;) )

Yeah that's pretty great
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 01:11:26 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 01:13:24 PM
What does D.B. stand for
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 18, 2018, 02:43:04 PM
What does D.B. stand for

  :bigsmile:

No one is quite sure, but we are open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 18, 2018, 02:47:42 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.

The BotLab is our biggest push right now, in addition to cleaning up the physics for each robots.  We are tuning dynamics, and once with have dialed things in we will need to figure out how to translate all of the hand-built stuff into the BotLab.

A mobile port is firmly in the "nice to have" category until we can get a solid version up an running for Windows/Mac/Linux.  Rethinking everything for mobile will take some work, and our team is pretty small.

That being said, here's a video of me fighting an AI robot on an iPhone 7 Plus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:53:39 PM
Which is the latest version, the one here, or the one on the official website
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:55:07 PM
What does D.B. stand for

  :bigsmile:

No one is quite sure, but we are open to suggestions.



Dummy Bot, Dumb Box, Dummy box, or Dumb Bot
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on March 18, 2018, 02:56:38 PM
Good game, but fix and simplify the bot lab. Make a mobile port too please! I would love to play on the go.

The BotLab is our biggest push right now, in addition to cleaning up the physics for each robots.  We are tuning dynamics, and once with have dialed things in we will need to figure out how to translate all of the hand-built stuff into the BotLab.

A mobile port is firmly in the "nice to have" category until we can get a solid version up an running for Windows/Mac/Linux.  Rethinking everything for mobile will take some work, and our team is pretty small.

That being said, here's a video of me fighting an AI robot on an iPhone 7 Plus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSi9qrPtWw)


If possible, can you make is w/o the xbox controller thing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2018, 10:27:13 PM
@Ra2Winner999
Please don't make multiple posts in a row. Instead, edit your previous post and add whatever you want to say onto it.

@cjbruce
I don't mean to be pushy, but is there an ETA for the next build's release? I'm really looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 05:41:58 AM
@Ra2Winner999
Please don't make multiple posts in a row. Instead, edit your previous post and add whatever you want to say onto it.

@cjbruce
I don't mean to be pushy, but is there an ETA for the next build's release? I'm really looking forward to it.

Our school is on spring break next week, so I'm hoping to have a good solid chunk of development time in the mornings and to release a new development build sometime during the week. 

In the past few weeks @tashic has been working on putting together the beginnings of a help menu, and I have been cleaning up the driving dynamics.  @Anarchy_Fox modeled up D.B. Mk II, a thwackbot with a chain flail that should be really exciting to drive ("spin to win!"), and I have been trying to get its spin speed up to the point where the 2 kg metal cudgel at the end does damage.  Right now all it does is bounce off its opponents without doing much.  It should be more like a cheaper, less effective version of carbide with a much larger effective radius.

The latest and greatest build will always be available on itch.io at https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2018, 05:56:10 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 06:17:46 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2018, 06:27:34 AM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Great to hear! Another question, are you planning on having AI bots be part of the .exe of the game (like how it is now) or separated out into their own files, like how RA2 does it?

Since RW is dead now, if you ask nicely you might be able to get permission from the builders of at least Eruption and Carbide to use their bots, maybe after a rename/recolour to avoid copyright issues w/ Mentorn. I know the builder of Eruption used to post on GTM pretty regularly so I'd be surprised if he were against the idea. Just thinking since it would be a shame for the work that's gone into modelling and implementing these bots to go to waste.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 19, 2018, 02:48:59 PM
Good to hear, will there be any tweaks to Eruption's flipper in the next build? That's what I'm really looking forward to!

Yup!  Way more powerful, with a much improved range of motion.   :smile:

Please keep in mind that Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption only exist in these early development builds.  We don't have permission to use them in the final game.  Right now we are using them to prove out the physics and AI tactics, and we have the goal of being able to build and test a solid functional replica of a wide range of real-life robots in the BotLab.  All of the parameters for a CO2 flipper should be tweakable in the BotLab, such as hinge range of motion, piston diameter, stroke length, buffer tank volume, etc.
Great to hear! Another question, are you planning on having AI bots be part of the .exe of the game (like how it is now) or separated out into their own files, like how RA2 does it?

Since RW is dead now, if you ask nicely you might be able to get permission from the builders of at least Eruption and Carbide to use their bots, maybe after a rename/recolour to avoid copyright issues w/ Mentorn. I know the builder of Eruption used to post on GTM pretty regularly so I'd be surprised if he were against the idea. Just thinking since it would be a shame for the work that's gone into modelling and implementing these bots to go to waste.

@tashic has a preliminary format worked out for saving robot designs to a text file.  Right now it is just the shapes, but eventually will need to be expanded to include things like textures and AI.  The file is all human-readable, but much of it is vertex positions, so not particularly interesting.  I'll let him give more details. :)

We haven't nailed down an architecture for saving everything about a robot yet.  I am hoping to make each robot atomic, with a file describing the robot + another few files for textures.  We haven't talked this through, and there is a ton of work left to do to make this happen.

Wow!  I had no idea about Robot Wars!  This is what I get for living on the wrong side of the pond.  I think you are right though -- if we are going to keep the interest in robot combat going, we need to make a concerted effort to engage the most successful teams.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 10:54:14 AM
We have a new build coming sometime in the next day or so!  One of the biggest things in this build is a completely revamped UI.  We are still frantically trying to squash bugs before we put it out to the public, but will get it to you guys as soon as we can.

While I have some time this morning, I wanted to put together a detailed list of things that are coming in the next build:

[Additions]
New UI - We are in the early stages of a complete UI overhaul.  So far we have touched the “Battle” menu and the in-game "Pause" menu.  Nothing is final yet, as this is the first iteration and we are having a lot of internal discussions about what needs to go where.
BotLab Help Menu - We now have a working help menu.  If you are stuck and can’t figure out what to do next, please give the help menu a try!
New Sumo Basho Arena - The old arena suffered from some bizarre physics bugs and z-fighting.  The new one is a lot cleaner.
D.B. Mk II - This robot is a thwackbot with a chain flail.  We are having trouble with the chain physics.  If we can’t figure out how to make the chain simulation more stable, it is highly likely that it will be removed from the game.  We included it here because it is fun and funky and would be a shame if it didn’t see the light of day at least as a prototype!
Arena Spinner (currently in the Warehouse arena) - The arena spinner is deadly!  One hard hit will send a robot flying out of the Warehouse.
Individual Immobility Timers - Timers now hover over individual robots.
Sparks! - Carbide and the arena spinner both emit sparks on impact.

[Changes]
Physics - We have done extensive tweaking of physics in order to increase the turning and spinning speed of robots.  Angular velocity of robots is no longer capped at 7 radians/second (a little over 1 revolution per second).  This has caused some instability issues that we will need to iron out through testing.
Deferred Rendering Pipeline (Graphics) - We switched all game cameras from Forward Rendering to Deferred Rendering.  This should allow for more lights in the scene, but comes at the cost of lack of compatibility with older devices.  Since we are targeting desktop, this should not be an issue.  The change has also allowed for much more consistent HDR lighting across scenes.
Bloom (Graphics) - Toned down the bloom effect in the postprocessing stack.  If it is still too “bloomy”, please let us know!
Motion Blur (Graphics) - Removed motion blur entirely.  We included motion blur in an attempt to provide an indication of how fast Carbide’s blade is actually spinning, as it is currently subject to the “wagon wheel effect”.  Unfortunately, motion blur made everything else look grainy and terrible, and it induces nausea for some players, so it was removed.
Lighting - After switching to deferred rendering, it was necessary to recalibrate lighting for every scene.

[Removals]
Old Sumo Basho Arena - The old Sumo Basho arena has been removed.
Over-The-Shoulder Camera - “Over the shoulder” cameras have been entirely removed.  Because robots move so quickly, it was nauseating trying to drive a robot with the over-the-should camera.

Here's a shot of the arena spinner in action!
(http://www.nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/arenaspinnerhitseruptionvsoriginalsin.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2018, 10:56:55 AM
Looking very interesting! Any tweaks to weaponry (Eruption's flipper power, carbide's spinner speed etc)?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on March 28, 2018, 10:57:57 AM
Cant wait for the new build! any pics of the flail bot
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:17:17 AM
Looking very interesting! Any tweaks to weaponry (Eruption's flipper power, carbide's spinner speed etc)?

Eruption - The flipper is 4 times more powerful than before.  It is maybe a tad too overpowered, but it is more fun now. :)

Carbide - The spinner has always rotated way faster than the Nyquist frequency of the screen (nominally 60 Hz).  I spent a lot of time trying to deal with this by adding things like motion blur and adjusting the visual representation of the spinner vs the physical simulation, but in the end, I think the solution is simple: sparks.  With sparks you know when the spinner hits.

Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.  D.B. ad D.B. Mk II are both based on student work, and @AnarchyFox is currently modeling "Ballerina", a drumbot that was fairly successful in our student competition last year.  Ballerina won't make it into this build, but should be available in the next one.



Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 28, 2018, 11:22:45 AM
Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.
What's the chance you can leave in "Generic Bar Spinner", "Generic UK style Flipper" and "Generic 4WD Wedge bot"?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:34:46 AM
Cant wait for the new build! any pics of the flail bot

Here's a low-res shot of D.B. Mk II vs Original Sin.  D.B. Mk II resulted when my students attached a flail to D.B..  It ended up working out really well in real life.  Its simulated version is, unfortunately, not as effective.

(http://www.nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/dbmk2vsoriginalsin.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 11:39:30 AM
Note that we will most likely be removing Eruption, Carbide, and Original Sin from the game, as they all have restrictive licensing agreements.
What's the chance you can leave in "Generic Bar Spinner", "Generic UK style Flipper" and "Generic 4WD Wedge bot"?

We are looking to create a bunch of all-new robot designs that don't infringe upon any existing IPs.  If anyone has any of their own IRL robots that they would be willing to send photos of, we might just be able to put them in the game.

Aside from that, once the BotLab is working, we are hoping that you guys go nuts with your own designs. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 12:17:35 PM
The new build is now available for download:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on March 28, 2018, 02:36:06 PM
Eruption - The flipper is 4 times more powerful than before.  It is maybe a tad too overpowered, but it is more fun now. :)
You'll regret that.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2018, 04:01:02 PM
I feel like the force curve on Eruption's flipper is a bit off, I think maybe either the force is applied over too long a period, or maybe the force doesn't peak quickly enough (awful pic below to explain what I mean), both leading the flipper to feel a bit unsatisfying and unrealistic. That and Eruption's flipper is very inconsistent; sometimes feeling barely less anaemic than before and other times exploding like the gif Guldenflame posted above, or sometimes behaving in a way anywhere between those two extremes. I personally think it would be a good use of time to polish the feel of eruption's flipper and iron out the explosion bug, even if Eruption is not long for this game, as I'm sure it would serve you well if you chose to create another AI flipper or a component that allows the user to create flippers in the botlab.

Awful pic:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on March 28, 2018, 06:24:40 PM
the flail on db2 is pretty buggy, i've gotten it to glitch out of the warehouse map quite a few times

the ai on eruption doesn't seem to want to self-right until the countdown timer starts which is pretty easily abusable

other than that, big fan of this so far :) can't wait to see where it goes in the future
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on March 28, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
In addition to the glitches that Badnik mentioned there's also some kind of glitch with Eruption's self righting when controlled by a player. It tends to glitch out and launch the bot around and usually out of the arena even from the opposite side of the ring.

Gonna echo Badnik's praise though. This is the first build I've played of the game and the combat is already fun and addictive as hell. The botlab looks incredibly promising too. Will be watching how things develop extremely eagerly  :thumbup
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2018, 08:09:09 PM
I feel like the force curve on Eruption's flipper is a bit off, I think maybe either the force is applied over too long a period, or maybe the force doesn't peak quickly enough (awful pic below to explain what I mean), both leading the flipper to feel a bit unsatisfying and unrealistic. That and Eruption's flipper is very inconsistent; sometimes feeling barely less anaemic than before and other times exploding like the gif Guldenflame posted above, or sometimes behaving in a way anywhere between those two extremes. I personally think it would be a good use of time to polish the feel of eruption's flipper and iron out the explosion bug, even if Eruption is not long for this game, as I'm sure it would serve you well if you chose to create another AI flipper or a component that allows the user to create flippers in the botlab.

Awful pic:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Right now the pressure in the pneumatic cylinder is computed based on the Ideal Gas law, using the volume in the gas lines, buffer tank volume, and volume in the cylinder.  The pressure starts at a maximum value and then drops inversely proportional to the increase in volume as the piston slides out of the cylinder:


// currentPressure is measured in PSI
currentPressure = massRatio * Mathf.Max (minimumOperatingPressure, operatingPressure * (volumeInGasLines + bufferVolume) / (volumeInGasLines + bufferVolume + crossSectionalArea * strokeLength));

I think the erratic behavior might be due to the fact that the piston was set to "discrete" collisions, rather than "continuous dynamic".  I'll switch this and see if it affects anything.  Although I like the idea of the Ideal Gas model, I have a lot of room to cheat the system to get it feeling better.  In the end the most important thing is that it feels right, so I will keep working on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on March 29, 2018, 01:41:23 AM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on March 29, 2018, 01:41:48 AM
Ok imma egnore or the glitches and buggyness and say that this is very impressive. With things to add to the next update there a few things I think should be added. More bot types e.g thwak bot, axe, drum, etc.
I would also add an arena that dos'nt make eruption win each fight e.g the battlebots and combat arena
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Olister92 on March 29, 2018, 06:27:37 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:01:34 AM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.

Nice catch!  I will definitely take a look at this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 09:04:00 AM
In addition to the glitches that Badnik mentioned there's also some kind of glitch with Eruption's self righting when controlled by a player. It tends to glitch out and launch the bot around and usually out of the arena even from the opposite side of the ring.

Gonna echo Badnik's praise though. This is the first build I've played of the game and the combat is already fun and addictive as hell. The botlab looks incredibly promising too. Will be watching how things develop extremely eagerly  :thumbup

This has been sitting on the list of stuff to fix for a while, but got buried when I was working on the new immobility timer.  I am thinking a 1-second delay before self-righting should work...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Olister92 on March 29, 2018, 10:50:05 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2018, 10:55:04 AM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 12:00:53 PM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.

It is good to know though.  @Olister92, thank you for sharing!

I am toying with the idea of supporting really old hardware.  This comes with other advantages, like being able to throw unlimited numbers of robots in the ring together.  Right now I am tweaking everything for two robots, and am pushing physics to the maximum.

If we were willing to give up a bunch of physics fidelity by going to a "magic mobility" system where the forces on an object are drastically simplified like in RA2, we could get by on RA2-like hardware.  I'm not convinced that it would be worth it though.  The current high-fidelity physics should be able to handle arbitrary shapes created in the BotLab.  If you want a pneumatics system, you build it from scratch.  All of the hinges and sliding joints are modeled individually.  You couldn't do this in RA2, where everything was made of prebuilt components.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 01:23:58 PM
threw the link over to my buds at ARC and one of them discovered that if you have a bot on the very top of Eruption's flipper and fire it, Eruption will explode. he was able to reproduce it pretty consistently.

Nice catch!  I will definitely take a look at this.

I think I just fixed this one, but we will have to confirm in the next public build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 02:57:07 PM
I downloaded this yesterday, but couldn't get it run properly. It's fine in the menus but when I enter a battle I get huge amounts of lag (like 2 seconds after I press a button) is there a simple fix for this?
What I did manage to play I thought it was pretty fun and the physics were pretty realistic and I'd love to see this continue in future

Thanks for the feedback!  I am curious as to your system specs.  I have been tuning combat to run between 30-60 fps on a 2013 Macbook Air laptop with 8 GB of RAM.  The game is CPU-limited on my laptop, with physics taking the vast majority of the CPU time.

It's an Acer Aspire ES1-512 (2015 or 2016) with 4 GB of RAM
The processor is an Intel Celeron N2840 if any of this helps
Yeah well there's your problem. You can't expect a 3 year old celeron (with no dGPU) that was weak when it was released to play basically any 3-D game released in the past decade or more. Not an issue with the game I'm afraid. Try it on a desktop if you have access to one.

It is good to know though.  @Olister92, thank you for sharing!

I am toying with the idea of supporting really old hardware.  This comes with other advantages, like being able to throw unlimited numbers of robots in the ring together.  Right now I am tweaking everything for two robots, and am pushing physics to the maximum.

If we were willing to give up a bunch of physics fidelity by going to a "magic mobility" system where the forces on an object are drastically simplified like in RA2, we could get by on RA2-like hardware.  I'm not convinced that it would be worth it though.  The current high-fidelity physics should be able to handle arbitrary shapes created in the BotLab.  If you want a pneumatics system, you build it from scratch.  All of the hinges and sliding joints are modeled individually.  You couldn't do this in RA2, where everything was made of prebuilt components.

For future reference, here are the Geekbench 4 scores for my MacBook Air.  It turns out it is an early 2014 model, not a 2013.  I am shooting for frame rates around 60 fps, with occasional dips to 30 fps.

MacBook Air (11-inch Early 2014)
Single-Core Score: 2428 (this is the one that should matter, as physics is running on one core)
Multi-Core Score: 5026

On Geekbench 4, the Acer Aspire ES1-512 laptop is averaging around the following:
Single-Core Score: 1200
Multi-Core Score: 1800

@Olister92, the Geekbench scores seem to corroborate the low frame rates you are seeing.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Acer+Aspire+ES1-512 (https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Acer+Aspire+ES1-512)

I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 29, 2018, 03:41:10 PM
I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
I have a Surface Book with i7-6600u. Can't really find an accurate score for it but I can benchmark for you.
I could also throttle down my desktop if that helps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 03:55:45 PM
I would be curious to see how a Windows computer with a Geekbench single CPU score around 2400 performs.  Any takers? :)
I have a Surface Book with i7-6600u. Can't really find an accurate score for it but I can benchmark for you.
I could also throttle down my desktop if that helps.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Surface+Book+i7-6600u (https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=Surface+Book+i7-6600u)

It looks like the Surface Book is running around 3400 for a single CPU score.  I'm thinking it should run the game at a solid 60 fps, but it also has a high resolution screen, which might bring GPU fill rate into play and slow things down.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 29, 2018, 07:15:03 PM
I would suggest that the bottleneck for the Acer laptop is the integrated graphics, not the CPU for this particular workload
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2018, 08:02:37 PM
I would suggest that the bottleneck for the Acer laptop is the integrated graphics, not the CPU for this particular workload

Considering it scored 1483 (vs 16839 for my MacBook) on the OpenCL GPU test, you are probably right.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on April 01, 2018, 10:02:53 AM
Nice game!! It's so addictive and here are some of my suggestions.
1.Maybe it can be added something like weapon designing. Build the shape of the blade, the var, the flipper and the axe etc. whatever we like, and choose the material to attach to their weight. I think it could be of great fun. Also the paint job should be various as well so players can create their own best-looking robots.(such as typing words in different shapes)
2.The spinners should be more powerful, it's always embarrassing to see Carbide ripping Original Sin apart and then died incredibly.
3.When a robot end up with no life, it might be more real if it stops moving and been counted down, with the other side spinning around.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 01, 2018, 10:35:16 AM
Nice game!! It's so addictive and here are some of my suggestions.
1.Maybe it can be added something like weapon designing. Build the shape of the blade, the var, the flipper and the axe etc. whatever we like, and choose the material to attach to their weight. I think it could be of great fun. Also the paint job should be various as well so players can create their own best-looking robots.(such as typing words in different shapes)
2.The spinners should be more powerful, it's always embarrassing to see Carbide ripping Original Sin apart and then died incredibly.
3.When a robot end up with no life, it might be more real if it stops moving and been counted down, with the other side spinning around.

Thanks for the input!

1. In progress! :) - The BotLab's shape designer will be capable of making shapes for anything: chassis, weapons, etc.
2. This should be fixed in the next build.
3. Will do.  I haven't worked on this yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on April 04, 2018, 06:49:12 PM
It's Nightmare!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 05, 2018, 01:08:36 PM
It's Nightmare!

Diggin' it!  I can't wait until we can get texturing working.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 07, 2018, 01:16:46 PM
A new build is out! Go to the itch.io page for the latest version:

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds

In this build we focused heavily on the BotLab, but we also added "Ballerina", a drum bot, and made more tweaks to physics and particle effects.

The new Main Menu:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/mainmenu-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

Ballerina vs D.B. Mk II:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/ballerinavsDBMkII-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

The BotLab:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/RobotLab-Screen%20Shot%202018-06-07.png)

As always, to keep up to date and/or to join our list for Beta Builds, see our website at http://robot-rumble.com, or follow us on Twitter at @RobotRumbleGame.  We're doing our best to go to the IRL robot combat events in the UK.  Next up is Robot Extreme in Guildford this weekend!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on June 07, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
I had a quick play with the new build, my feedback:

- Eruption's flipper feels really nice now. Great work on tweaking that!
- Both spinners, however, do not. Their blades/drums are going orders of magnitude too slow. Is this a limitation of the unity engine?
- Carbide's bar is rotating off-center and it looks really derpy
- PLEASE make the Esc key open the pause menu, not close the game!
- I like the addition of the drumbot
- I think the inactivity timer is really well implemented, both mechanically and visually. Great work there.

Good to see some progress. I haven't messed around in the botlab at all, are the bots made there useable in battle yet?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on June 07, 2018, 02:14:18 PM
This is looking very nice, I like it a lot. I don't have much feedback, but Carbide's bar only has an ON setting and nothing to turn it off, which feels kinda weird honestly.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on June 07, 2018, 02:19:13 PM
Feedback:
Loving the damage that you're starting to implement, fun to see and really forces you to adapt.

Carbide - The bar itself seems to spin rather slow given the damage output it gives, giving the bar a blur effect would really give the player the info that it's super fast and will be dealing that kinds of damage.

Eruption - The flipper seems really powerful when self righting, thus I take a good amount of damage for landing,  other than that the motors clip out the back which is an issue. Tho it also appear to be a general issue as I've seen it with Carbide.

Original Sin - The wedges do seem to be rather weak in comparison to the wheels, a few hits from carbide can result in losing them


BotLab -The motors as weapons are rather bulky to use, I suggest having some belt options or a way to adding belts to change the center point of spinning.

Overall, great additions and improvements, loving the build keep it up

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 07, 2018, 02:33:58 PM
Ooh shiny! I’m on my tablet right now, so when I get to my laptop I’ll play!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 07, 2018, 02:51:38 PM
I had a quick play with the new build, my feedback:

- Eruption's flipper feels really nice now. Great work on tweaking that!
- Both spinners, however, do not. Their blades/drums are going orders of magnitude too slow. Is this a limitation of the unity engine?
- Carbide's bar is rotating off-center and it looks really derpy
- PLEASE make the Esc key open the pause menu, not close the game!
- I like the addition of the drumbot
- I think the inactivity timer is really well implemented, both mechanically and visually. Great work there.

Good to see some progress. I haven't messed around in the botlab at all, are the bots made there useable in battle yet?

1. It took a lot of tweaking to get the flipper physics working well.  I'm glad you like it! :)
2. I have been exploring a bunch of spinner options, and I think I have settled on a path to make them look/feel right.  Unfortunately, none of those explorations were ready for this build.  They may or may not be ready for the Alpha release, where we will be stressing the BotLab and end-to-end building/testing/battle, but I anticipate high-speed weapons will be really important as part of the Beta process.
3. You are right about the spinner -- the existing spinner will be completely replaced as part of #2, but we are looking to make sure spin axes are appropriate for all spinning objects.
4. [ESC] key -- We still have work to do on UI, and I promise we will fix this! :)
5. Ballerina will be in the official release! :)
6. Inactivity timer -- hopefully this is close to what we will go with.
7. Nothing produced in the BotLab is usable yet.  That is our next major milestone, and will be the key milestone for our Alpha Release.  We will have a booth during the recording for the "BuggleBots" web series in the UK in September, and we are pushing to have a show-ready game for people to try at the event.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on June 07, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Loving this update! The new botlab is much easier to navigate and build on. I really like the custom parts option and all of the helpful tips with each step in the bot building process. Also, the new bots are fantastic and look great There's only a few minor bugs I've noticed:

Eruption seems to spawn backwards during each match.
Sometimes arenas such as the Warehouse and Lava Pit start randomly flashing.
The caution texture in the arena editor instead changes the texture to blank white.

Overall, this is a really great update and I can't wait to see what the next one will bring. Keep up the fantastic work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dark-Al on June 07, 2018, 04:24:29 PM
I had some good fun playing around with this update. Trying to see what kind of bot that I can build or/and possibly break the game  in someway. Regardless,  I do have some suggestions on how the bot lab could be greatly improved:
 1. Hotkey shortcuts. Being used to 3d modeling software and other programs. It's a little annoying when you have to press a button on the side bar to do anything in the bot lab, when someone is used to hitting one key to perform an action. For me and other players, it more about having the convenience of just hitting a key on the keyboard to active a function, instead of having to reach over for a button to perform the action. Some ideas could be that having a delete key to remove a part, maybe one key for each adjustment for height, rotation and scale, and a button to undo an past action.

2. Part duplication a.k.a Copying and Pasting. I'm aware that you can save personal preferences on certain parts, but if I was to make a bot with multiple wedgelets on the front, I don't want to go through the pain of saving the part, then dragging said part into place. Instead there should be a way how the player can copy a part, and paste the part right next to the part they customized, so that they may wish to align the part on the same line as the first part, instead of possibly having to drag multiple parts in the scene, then going through the horror of perfectly aligning them all up to the first one. 

3. Undoing mistakes. I put a battery in the scene, but I messed up the rotation and moved it further away from where it should be. I don't want to go through the time consuming effort of trying to correct my mistake. Instead there should be an option allowing the player to revert their mistake back to the point when the player just got the position all right. This implementation may be difficult to fully work in some areas, but this will be helpful to any player when they are building a bot.

Overall, I'm enjoying to see the overall progress of the game. Sure there are a few problems that need ironing out here and there, but once all  that is all sorted, you'll have a game that'll be look up upon by the community. Anyway, I'll be looking forward for the next update when it does come out then.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Philippa on June 07, 2018, 04:31:18 PM
https://youtu.be/QrUyHWJysy4

Here's something I noticed happening a few times with Original Sin. One of the wedgelets will break and fly off, then suddenly act as if its still attached.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 07, 2018, 06:35:31 PM
Feedback: Love the game! Though here are some suggestions.

1. Sometimes both bots disappear.

2. Carbide’s weapon sometimes has AGOD.

3. Carbide’s weapon is overpowered. And it doesn’t even spin fast! Slightly nerf the damage; but buff the speed 700%

4. Make the test arena less laggy. And related to the test arena, make it so there is a set spawn. Not just 2 bots showing up in random places.

(Edit) 5. Original Sin’s wedge is too flimsy. This bot takes hits from Last Rites IRL for crying out loud!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on June 07, 2018, 08:20:56 PM
yeah spinners as a whole are way too weak in this build. also why isn't ballerina invertible? db 2.0's flail is still super buggy (i dont think i had any fights where it didnt glitch the game) as well. i feel like fights as a whole are too short.

other than that, things are going great!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on June 07, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
man. this is nuts.

made a sexy robot
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

some really neat features in here. im very impressed with what you guys have done, it's far and away the most complete robot builder i've seen besides ra2. I hope the work continues, I can't wait to see where it goes. especially interested in the bot creator. got some very good things so far, I'm especially happy with the custom shapes you can make, ra2 needed a feature like this.

incredible work so far. bot lab has got me excited

i have some bug issues with fighting however, not sure if others are having this. saw phil able to drive his bot but when I try to do a match it always ends immediately after the countdown, and says player 1 has won.
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
this happens even if I set both players to cpu. I may be doing something wrong but if it's a bug I thought I'd let you guys know.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on June 07, 2018, 10:45:42 PM
Spent a couple hours in the bot builder. It's clunky but obviously you guys know that. I think this has a potential and I'm excited to see how far it goes.

Here's the FS I tried to make:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

Once we can save things we might be seeing some showcases :O

I think the custom shapes in particular will cause a huge change in the way we build. Due to how precise building can be, it might take a lot more time to make a competitive robot though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WenXiangLee on June 08, 2018, 01:13:07 AM
Better than a Robot Arena 3's broken bot builder.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: pokebro14 on June 08, 2018, 02:58:22 AM
A lot of people have already mentioned how glitchy this build is and how weak spinners but thats all been said so the only thing ive got a big issue with is the weapons you can use on bot building as the drum is a very unusual shape honestly. I would make it 2 full teeth on each side rather than what we have now. A bit more like the pre made drum spinner.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 08, 2018, 07:30:33 AM
man. this is nuts.

made a sexy robot
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

some really neat features in here. im very impressed with what you guys have done, it's far and away the most complete robot builder i've seen besides ra2. I hope the work continues, I can't wait to see where it goes. especially interested in the bot creator. got some very good things so far, I'm especially happy with the custom shapes you can make, ra2 needed a feature like this.

incredible work so far. bot lab has got me excited

i have some bug issues with fighting however, not sure if others are having this. saw phil able to drive his bot but when I try to do a match it always ends immediately after the countdown, and says player 1 has won.
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
this happens even if I set both players to cpu. I may be doing something wrong but if it's a bug I thought I'd let you guys know.

Reinstall the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FightingBotInformal on June 08, 2018, 07:38:17 AM
please don’t be as clueless as robotfan99
I thought you were more clueless. Guess I was wrong then.
/sarcasm
EDIT: Anyways BOT since I'm done volunteering I'll download the game and see if there are some not-so IRL issues in it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: NeonCalypso on June 08, 2018, 08:00:48 AM
I really want to give this game a try, thanks for making this exciting game  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 08, 2018, 02:03:54 PM
please don’t be as clueless as robotfan99
I thought you were more clueless. Guess I was wrong then.
/sarcasm
  :realmad(

Edit: On topic, I have been experiencing some Havok Explosion esque glitches.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on June 09, 2018, 08:28:55 AM
will it be a vertical spinner or axe next time?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 09, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
Can we get Linux builds? I'd like to test this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on June 10, 2018, 03:48:37 AM
I tried my best to find a pc and test it.
I quite like it.
Only thing i kinda want is camera options. Now idk with which buttons you change cameras, but it would be great if you used fn keys (unless you are already). Maybe even add a behind bot camera (like with Eruption in older build)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 14, 2018, 03:01:57 PM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 14, 2018, 03:16:39 PM
Can we get Linux builds? I'd like to test this.

Unity will do Linux builds, but I have had zero success getting them to run under a Ubuntu VM on my development machine.  When I click on the icon for the build, nothing happens, and I'm not smart enough with linux to dig beneath the surface to determine what is going on.  If you are interested in giving it a shot, I have posted a nonworking Linux build to itch.io.  Please let me know how it goes!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 14, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 15, 2018, 06:11:34 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on June 15, 2018, 07:23:16 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 15, 2018, 10:53:31 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.

Thanks for the tip!  I’m not sure about Early Access yet.  At this point we are limited more by time than funding.  If we were to do Early Access, I would like to keep its time period short.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on June 15, 2018, 11:52:22 AM
To everyone who has given feedback, thank you!  We are frantically trying to put everything together for an Alpha release.

We have been talking to lots of real-life roboteers to get permission to use their robots in our game.  We have some bad news and some good news on this front.

The Bad:
Display rights to all of the Robot Wars robots are owned by the BBC.  Both they and Battlebots are rightfully protective of their intellectual property.  This means that we do not have permission to use Carbide, Eruption, or Original Sin in our commercial release.  All three robots will be removed from the game.

The Good:
Many of the roboteers themselves are really excited to share their unlicensed designs.  We have permission from several of the teams to use their other designs from the live circuit.  We should be able to get a few of these designs into the next few builds.

Cool, will it be steam?

Yup - Steam will be our primary distribution platform.  We are working on putting together everything we need for the Steam page right now, but we won't publish the Steam page until we have a complete BotLab where you can build robots and put them into game.

Make it $9.99 early access (trust me, do not say $10.00 it looks expensive while $9.99 looks cheap) to bribe them into buying, note that you should change the price to $19.99 when 1.0 is released.

Thanks for the tip!  I’m not sure about Early Access yet.  At this point we are limited more by time than funding.  If we were to do Early Access, I would like to keep its time period short.
do what you need to do man. it's easy to cave into even small pressures on projects like this. you're never going to be short on people offering their two cents. I hope that you can take as much time as you can to make a quality game, but I also know that deadlines and costs and such can be very burdensome.

what you've shown is extremely impressive, likely the most finished robot combat game we've had in years already. I hope your team is able to finish it, and I'd buy it as soon as I could.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 19, 2018, 05:41:11 PM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on June 19, 2018, 06:17:02 PM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.

Seems itchio/hwcdn was having issues with either my double NAT or my ISP. Had to download (slooowly) while proxying through another network. ( If you want a better CDN, hit me up on DM, that's my line of work :) ).

So, tested this for a few minutes on Gentoo Linux (Kernel 4.14.10), with my integrated Intel HD Graphics 530 (GL 4.5, GLES 3.2) and Intel i7-6700k and 32GB of RAM. I know, the graphics aren't great, but other games work okay at full HD on low graphics (I play Talos Principle on this machine quite a bit, @30FPS).

What works:
 - game launches! full screen only, can't seem to window it (tried alt-enter)
 - 1v1 combat launches
 - botlab launches

What doesn't work:
 - any sort of performance (menus are sluggish, combat view is around 5FPS)
 - smoke (?) particles during combat - they get rendered with a white background
 - building a robot - I get stuck on 'collision mode' selection, when I click any of the buttons I get a textured box but no wireframe and can't advance to next step

Player.log: https://q3k.org/u/9f1843023508c15946e0bd26ef9e4aa8f052a9bb140bf408be46ef58e7423872.log

If you tell me how I can get this resized to a window, I'll get you some screenshots / recordings. Oh, and any chance you could also release a 64-bit Linux build?

Thanks for the Linux build!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 21, 2018, 07:29:17 AM
https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Lovely, thank you.

I'll test it as soon as itch.io's downloads start working again - seems their service is having some issues right now.

Seems itchio/hwcdn was having issues with either my double NAT or my ISP. Had to download (slooowly) while proxying through another network. ( If you want a better CDN, hit me up on DM, that's my line of work :) ).

So, tested this for a few minutes on Gentoo Linux (Kernel 4.14.10), with my integrated Intel HD Graphics 530 (GL 4.5, GLES 3.2) and Intel i7-6700k and 32GB of RAM. I know, the graphics aren't great, but other games work okay at full HD on low graphics (I play Talos Principle on this machine quite a bit, @30FPS).

What works:
 - game launches! full screen only, can't seem to window it (tried alt-enter)
 - 1v1 combat launches
 - botlab launches

What doesn't work:
 - any sort of performance (menus are sluggish, combat view is around 5FPS)
 - smoke (?) particles during combat - they get rendered with a white background
 - building a robot - I get stuck on 'collision mode' selection, when I click any of the buttons I get a textured box but no wireframe and can't advance to next step

Player.log: https://q3k.org/u/9f1843023508c15946e0bd26ef9e4aa8f052a9bb140bf408be46ef58e7423872.log

If you tell me how I can get this resized to a window, I'll get you some screenshots / recordings. Oh, and any chance you could also release a 64-bit Linux build?

Thanks for the Linux build!

Thanks for taking a look!  I just uploaded a 64-bit Linux version, so hopefully that makes a difference.  I just figured out how to do a windowed Linux version, so I am building that now and should have the up later today.

Aside from that, I worry that I don't have enough experience with Linux to troubleshoot and clean things up.  It might be the case that the Linux version isn't meant to be -- I don't want to put something up on Steam that is horrible and buggy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on June 21, 2018, 07:36:14 AM
A windowed, 64-bit Linux version is up on itch.io.  Hopefully this helps!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 29, 2018, 08:39:02 PM
It's been a while, but we've been tooling away over the summer, and we finally did it!  The BotLab can now create drivable robots!

Here is the first robot ever driven in the Robot Rumble 2 BotLab.  It doesn't look like much, but it is a huge milestone for the game:

(http://nerdislandstudios.com/robotrumble/firsteverbotlabrobot.gif)

Now that you can drive robots you create in the BotLab, expect an Alpha launch soon!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on August 29, 2018, 08:54:38 PM
awesome  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on August 30, 2018, 03:57:09 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on August 30, 2018, 02:30:01 PM
That’s really cool. I’m also loving the aesthetic of the test arena
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on August 30, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
This is awesome




Will be able to create our own arenas for the game?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 30, 2018, 03:21:31 PM
This is awesome




Will be able to create our own arenas for the game?

Thanks for that! :)

We need to get the BotLab up to speed first before we worry about the arena editor.  A lot of the code should be reusable between the two.

In my mind right now, the priority list goes as follows:

1. Improving the BotLab user experience, making it able to create robots that are of the same quality as the robots that are currently built into the game.
2. Creating "the game": tournaments, achievements, etc.
3. Adding user-configurable AI to robots in the BotLab.
4. Building out the arena editor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on August 30, 2018, 03:42:11 PM
Also, if you haven't checked it out already, we are regularly posting progress updates and videos on Twitter: ‎@RobotRumbleGame

We are shooting to get the Alpha release, including the working BotLab (still buggy!!!) out before our team heads out to the filming of BuggleBots at UWE Bristol, UK on September 8th, 2018.  I'm not sure if tickets to the live event filming are still available, but if you are interest in some IRL robot combat, check them out at bugglebots.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on August 30, 2018, 09:45:48 PM
Looking good! I'm excited to see what building and driving is gonna like with the new botlab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 01, 2018, 11:30:49 AM
Looking good! I'm excited to see what building and driving is gonna like with the new botlab.

It’s pretty rudimentary at the moment.  I haven’t had a chance to take a physics pass to make everything consistent.  Honestly, I think it is going to take a significant amount of time to make sure that all of the new components play well with each other, as well as with the pregenerated robots.  In the meanwhile, we will be adding more and more through alpha and beta, so what you see in the Alpha build is probably not going to feel like a final version.

As for right now, I’m just excited to get things working, and to finally have something to share with you guys.

Speaking of sharing, after this we are probably going to go into a closed beta period where you will have to join a group of Beta testers to receive the latest builds.  There is a signup form for this on www.robot-rumble.com, if you are interested.  We are looking to limit the amount of beta testers somewhat just to keep the amount of user input manageable, but we still need more people!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 03, 2018, 12:57:59 AM
Luckily for me, the latest version of unity still targets Vista. ;) Just make sure there is a x86 build. You should probably edit your open post. You have not touched it in a little less than a year.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 03, 2018, 03:10:43 AM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 03, 2018, 11:31:33 AM
Luckily for me, the latest version of unity still targets Vista. ;) Just make sure there is a x86 build. You should probably edit your open post. You have not touched it in a little less than a year.

No promises on Vista.  I don’t think we have a Vista machine to test on, so probably no luck with that.  We are still shooting for late summer 2019 release, so I’m hoping most people will have upgraded by then.

You are probably right about updating the initial post.  We are trying to get Alpha out this week.  Once it is released, I will update Post 1.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 03, 2018, 02:01:12 PM
Just make sure when you build, set it to x86 and you should be fine, since the current version of unity targerts vista, I will be happy to test for you.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 03, 2018, 06:48:09 PM
Yeah, you should definitely NOT set it to x86, who still uses x86, that would just limit the game's capabilities
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 03, 2018, 08:45:40 PM
Okay, I was SUPER stoked when I discovered that not only is it possible to save and load robots to and from disk, but since they are stored entirely in a renameable text file, it is really easy to share them with others.

To all of you who love .json, here is a very basic robot design.  Please note that I didn't put in batteries, ESCs, or a master switch, so this robot won't be drivable once we start implementing those features, but at a minimum you should be able to load the design below in the Alpha build of the game.

Big kudos go out to @tashic for putting this together!

To load the robot in the Alpha build (should be released any day now), just create a new text file called "somerobotname.RR2Bot", insert the following, then put it in whatever directory your robot save files are being saved to.  Enjoy!:

{"name":"My Robot 2","shapes":[{"name":"Chassis","shape_visual_mesh":{"vertices":[{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.22500000894069673},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.22499999403953553}],"uvVerts":[{"x":0.020408159121870996,"y":0.4285714328289032},{"x":0.02040817402303219,"y":0.020408159121870996},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.02040817402303219},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.4285714328289032},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.020408162847161294},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.020408162847161294},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.07857141643762589},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.07857143133878708},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.11938775330781937},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.11938775330781937},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.17755116522312165},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.1775510162115097},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.21836768090724946},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.21836768090724946},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.2765309512615204},{"x":0.9285715222358704,"y":0.2765309512615204},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.31734728813171389},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.31734728813171389},{"x":0.5204082131385803,"y":0.37551069259643557},{"x":0.9795918464660645,"y":0.3755105435848236},{"x":0.020408188924193383,"y":0.46938779950141909},{"x":0.020408159121870996,"y":0.8775510191917419},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.8775510191917419},{"x":0.47959184646606448,"y":0.46938779950141909}],"triangles":[0,3,2,2,1,0,4,5,6,4,6,7,8,9,10,8,10,11,12,13,14,12,14,15,16,17,18,16,18,19,20,21,22,22,23,20],"normals":[{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":-1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":1.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-1.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":-1.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0},{"x":0.0,"y":1.0,"z":0.0}]},"collision_hulls":[{"vertices":[{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.25},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.25},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":-0.20000000298023225},{"x":-0.20000000298023225,"y":0.05700000002980232,"z":0.25},{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.0,"z":0.25}],"uvVerts":[],"triangles":[0,2,3,2,1,3,4,3,1,5,1,2,5,2,0,5,4,1,6,4,0,6,0,3,6,3,4,7,5,0,7,0,4,7,4,5],"normals":[]}],"hulls_local_pos":[{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":-0.02499999664723873}],"surface_area":0.4569000005722046,"com":{"x":0.0,"y":0.02850000001490116,"z":0.0},"layer_list":[{"points":[{"x":-20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":-20.0},{"x":-20.0,"y":-20.0}],"rel_layer_height":0.0},{"points":[{"x":-20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":25.0},{"x":20.0,"y":-20.0},{"x":-20.0,"y":-20.0}],"rel_layer_height":0.05700000002980232}]}],"robot_construction":[{"comp_list":1,"comp_list_id":0,"conn_link_ind":-1,"position":{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},"rotation":{"x":0.0,"y":0.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":1,"conn_link_ind":0,"position":{"x":-0.19999998807907105,"y":0.031000956892967225,"z":-0.21124446392059327},"rotation":{"x":90.0,"y":90.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":2,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":1,"conn_link_ind":0,"position":{"x":0.20000000298023225,"y":0.025073308497667314,"z":-0.2020883709192276},"rotation":{"x":90.0,"y":270.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0,"y":1.0,"z":1.0},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":1,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":21,"conn_link_ind":1,"position":{"x":-0.21549998223781587,"y":0.031000956892967225,"z":-0.21124446392059327},"rotation":{"x":270.0,"y":90.00000762939453,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0000007152557374,"y":1.0000004768371583,"z":1.0000005960464478},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}},{"comp_list":2,"comp_list_id":21,"conn_link_ind":2,"position":{"x":0.21549999713897706,"y":0.025073308497667314,"z":-0.2020883709192276},"rotation":{"x":270.0,"y":270.0,"z":0.0},"scale":{"x":1.0000004768371583,"y":1.0000005960464478,"z":1.0000007152557374},"material_id":0,"thickness":0.004999999888241291,"tint":{"r":1.0,"g":1.0,"b":1.0,"a":1.0},"controls":{"controlType":0,"reverse":false}}],"massScaleFactor":0.10000000149011612}
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 06, 2018, 12:42:03 PM
We have a confirmed date for the Alpha Build -- it will be out this weekend, along with our first trailer showing off the new robots and BotLab.

For those of you lucky enough to be in attendance at the live BuggleBots taping in Bristol, UK this weekend, you will get the first crack at the Alpha Build, along with the opportunity for free RR2 swag.  BuggleBots should be a good show, and the event will be available on YouTube in a few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 07, 2018, 04:01:39 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 07, 2018, 04:10:47 PM
how soon after signing up for the mailing list should i expect an email that gets me through to download the alpha :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 07, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 02:15:54 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 02:18:06 AM
how soon after signing up for the mailing list should i expect an email that gets me through to download the alpha :heart_smiley:

The Alpha Build is now publicly available on itch.io at the link above.  All Beta Builds will be closed to the public, but we are accepting applications on the website!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 03:23:50 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: FlamesOfIce on September 08, 2018, 04:39:24 AM
Hey, i tried to lower the resolution but even though i changed it in the settings, nothing changed and when I quit and came back into the game, it was still on the old one. Do you know how to change it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on September 08, 2018, 06:37:00 AM
Hey, so I played the most recent version this morning and I really love what you’ve done so far. The physics feel really accurate and I love the realistic sound effects. The bot builder works really well and I had fun making a couple of designs. However I do have some thoughts for improvements based on what I’ve played:

-Unless I’m missing something, I couldn’t find a way to stop spinner robots overheating once the weapon was activated, so I always broke down after a few seconds (the smoke particle effect looks really nice btw)

-Royal Robby really needs balancing adjustments imo. I know that the axe does crazy amounts of damage, but the high ground clearance and relative slowness, make it really underpowered overall. I’d recommend making it lower to the ground and drive a little faster, whilst making the axe much less damaging. The AI also doesn’t seem to know to self-right until the immobilisation counter starts

-i feel like robots get broken too quickly, and should have either more HP or do less damage generally

-when making chassis/component shapes, an arrow would be handy to remind you which way is forwards, as I accidentally built a robot facing the wrong way XD

I understand that this is just an alpha, and it’s not meant to be perfect, but I figured you might appreciate some feedback.

(This is also way better than RA3 and it’s still only in alpha)

Great work!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on September 08, 2018, 07:56:29 AM
This game just looks better and better with each successive update. The fact it has real live competitors makes it even better IMO - Earthquake and Manta? You sure kept that a surprise!

There's a few issues I noticed, though:


I'll have to try the build system at some point.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:01:54 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:03:37 AM
Hey, i tried to lower the resolution but even though i changed it in the settings, nothing changed and when I quit and came back into the game, it was still on the old one. Do you know how to change it?

Sorry about that! Settings are a work in progress.  The menus are really inconsistent right now, and we will need to do a few more UI passes as the game develops.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.

I'm using a Fujitsu Lifebook E Series. I got it (used) after my old one burned down to write repors on it. It runs win7 and I can start up the game but combat is super laggy on my end. Maybe the Laptop isn't old but crappy as hell.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WenXiangLee on September 08, 2018, 08:09:48 AM
same as thyrus.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:12:22 AM
Hey, so I played the most recent version this morning and I really love what you’ve done so far. The physics feel really accurate and I love the realistic sound effects. The bot builder works really well and I had fun making a couple of designs. However I do have some thoughts for improvements based on what I’ve played:

-Unless I’m missing something, I couldn’t find a way to stop spinner robots overheating once the weapon was activated, so I always broke down after a few seconds (the smoke particle effect looks really nice btw)

-Royal Robby really needs balancing adjustments imo. I know that the axe does crazy amounts of damage, but the high ground clearance and relative slowness, make it really underpowered overall. I’d recommend making it lower to the ground and drive a little faster, whilst making the axe much less damaging. The AI also doesn’t seem to know to self-right until the immobilisation counter starts

-i feel like robots get broken too quickly, and should have either more HP or do less damage generally

-when making chassis/component shapes, an arrow would be handy to remind you which way is forwards, as I accidentally built a robot facing the wrong way XD

I understand that this is just an alpha, and it’s not meant to be perfect, but I figured you might appreciate some feedback.

(This is also way better than RA3 and it’s still only in alpha)

Great work!

Excellent feedback! 

In real life, robot fights typically last just as long as the first incapacitating hit, which can be just a few seconds.  I don’t think instant kills make for a good video game, however.  Thank you for saying something about this.  We will be focusing on game experience issues a lot over the next few months.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:14:50 AM
This game just looks better and better with each successive update. The fact it has real live competitors makes it even better IMO - Earthquake and Manta? You sure kept that a surprise!

There's a few issues I noticed, though:

  • Every now and then, both robots will suddenly just disappear from the arena. I dunno how it happens, but it seems like a fairly major thing.
  • If you flip Royal Robby over, he seems to forget how to move even after he self-rights. He swings his axe back and forth when the immobility counter appears, but other than that he just sits there and lets you keep flipping him or shoving him into hazards. I've actually seen him kill himself from the recoil damage of rocking back and forth while firing.
  • The picture of the Test Arena in the Arena Select menu shows the old version, without all the new hazards. Speaking of which, when you're using camera 1, it's impossible to tell that there's a spike hazard thing directly underneath the camera's location until you drive into its strike zone and it wipes out a chunk of your health. I was very confused the first time it hit me.
  • On the robot selection screen, some of the robots (like Theseus) are facing in the opposite direction on the turntable. It's a small thing, but it's still worth noting.

I'll have to try the build system at some point.

Good stuff here.  It is all going in the list of things to fix.

The build system is still missing a lot, but hopefully it feels familiar enough, and new players can figure it out without too much trouble.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 08, 2018, 08:30:47 AM
Some minor feedback from what I can tell:

I tried out the botbuilder by building a flipper.
I'm glad there were tips on how to use some of the stuff. if the botlab keeps the way it is atm they should stay in as they are really helpfull.
I couldn't build a flipper but I guess that has to do with the parts not being available in the lab as of now.
I don't know what the controlls for my bot are. I know that the spacebar spun up the weapon but that's it.
I LOVE that you can shape your own components. that's something I always wanted to have in ra2.
I still have to get used to the motor size. Belted motors would be awesome to have. I couldn't line up both drivemotors on the grid for some reason tho.

and as I said before: Combat is really laggy for me but that's my laptops fault
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 08:33:32 AM
The Alpha Build is live!

Alpha Trailer: https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4 (https://youtu.be/pjOqj6xXuI4)

Download the Alpha Build on itch.io: https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

Sign up for the closed beta on our website: http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)

Wow! This looks amazing! Good job everyone.
I would love to sign up for the beta but my laptop is too crappy and I have to save money for a new one

Thank you!

Just curious, but how old is the laptop, and can it load the game?  I’m trying to get a handle on how far back we can go before the game is unplayable.

I'm using a Fujitsu Lifebook E Series. I got it (used) after my old one burned down to write repors on it. It runs win7 and I can start up the game but combat is super laggy on my end. Maybe the Laptop isn't old but crappy as hell.

Hmmm... I just looked up the CPUmark for the e544, and it doesn’t look that dissimilar to my MacBook Air.  I wonder if we can tweak some things to make it run a bit better.  No promises, but we will take a look.  A lot of people use laptops (I’m one), and I would rather reach a broad audience (heck, this is a STEM game!), than require bleeding edge hardware.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 10:42:42 AM
Some minor feedback from what I can tell:

I tried out the botbuilder by building a flipper.
I'm glad there were tips on how to use some of the stuff. if the botlab keeps the way it is atm they should stay in as they are really helpfull.
I couldn't build a flipper but I guess that has to do with the parts not being available in the lab as of now.
I don't know what the controlls for my bot are. I know that the spacebar spun up the weapon but that's it.
I LOVE that you can shape your own components. that's something I always wanted to have in ra2.
I still have to get used to the motor size. Belted motors would be awesome to have. I couldn't line up both drivemotors on the grid for some reason tho.

and as I said before: Combat is really laggy for me but that's my laptops fault

Motor size is accidentally double what it should be.  It was a scaling factor problem.  The barrel of the ampflow motors are supposed to be 3” in diameter, but in the game they are six inches.  This makes wheels smaller than 8” unusable.  It will be an easy fix, but we didn’t have time to fix it before the alpha.

We still have some thinking to do about the flippers.  The pregenerated flippers use a self-collision system that is proving to be unstable, so we might have to significantly change the way they are built in the botlab.

Controls will eventually be configurable, but right now it is space bar to turn a spinner on, then space bar again to turn it off.

Glad you like the custom part builder.  That is @tashic’s baby. He’s a genius. 🙂
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 08, 2018, 12:02:15 PM
I'm really happy this is still a work in progress. I'm used to seeing projects announced on this forum die after a year.

If I'm honest, the gameplay itself hasn't seemed to have improved that much, with my major grips being that the wedge war is still won by sitting still and, once you lose advantage against a flipper, the AI is juggling you nonstop, with very little room for recovery. Then again, I imagine gameplay details like this aren't as important to iron out at this stage in development, I just want to make sure that they're definitely going to get ironed out, at some point.

It may be too early to forecast, but are you intending on updating the game indefinitely after the intended release in 2019? I'd hate for so much effort to go to waste on a game that doesn't get polished to perfection.

Good luck with the rest of development!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 08, 2018, 01:43:12 PM
I'm really happy this is still a work in progress. I'm used to seeing projects announced on this forum die after a year.

If I'm honest, the gameplay itself hasn't seemed to have improved that much, with my major grips being that the wedge war is still won by sitting still and, once you lose advantage against a flipper, the AI is juggling you nonstop, with very little room for recovery. Then again, I imagine gameplay details like this aren't as important to iron out at this stage in development, I just want to make sure that they're definitely going to get ironed out, at some point.

It may be too early to forecast, but are you intending on updating the game indefinitely after the intended release in 2019? I'd hate for so much effort to go to waste on a game that doesn't get polished to perfection.

Good luck with the rest of development!

You are right on all counts.  Over the course of the next few months, we have a ton of development to do, and there is a very good chance that what you see now will change significantly as we start to build out the game.  One of things we are currently working on is matching up botlab robots to pregenerated ones.  We need to make sure they are balanced and/or everything can be recreated in the BotLab before we worry too much about tweaking the house robots.

AI is going to get a complete rewrite.  It isn’t reconfigurable yet, and I consider that a core part of the BotLab.  Players need to be able to customize the AI for their robots.

Lastly, yes, since we don’t have to worry about investors or publishers and we are all doing this on the side, we should be able to support the game after launch.  That’s all pretty standard stuff for me, and I think the rest of the team feels the same way.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 08, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
gave it a download, really impressed with how far this has come so far.

some feedback:
-reduce/remove the damage robots take when they are in contact with each other. i can understand doing damage on big rams, but d.b. spent nearly 3/4ths of a fight pushing me around and nearly got me into the pit before inexplicably losing because of contact damage.

-give robots more hp in general. fights are decided way too quickly by relatively small hits.

-most of the wedges seemed to have trouble getting all the way underneath their opponents to flip them, earthquake especially

-most of the spinners seem underpowered except for bubblegum. not a lot of throwing power from either vertical

haven't taken a look at the bot lab yet but i will soon. thanks for the frequent and impressive updates!

edit: when bubblegum gets flipped and its shell hits the floor it will typically glitch out, either floating in place or causing either itself or both robots to explode:
(https://i.imgur.com/f7MJURW.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on September 08, 2018, 09:28:42 PM
The latest version improves a lot, so glad to see it getting so far.
And some feedback within:

1.The axe does quite amount of damage, but needs a crashing sound, when they hit their opponents, it sounds weak and not that destructive.
2.The vertical spinner, including drums, don't have enough throwing power, In reality when they hit at the right place, their opppnents would be flipped as high as hell.
3.When bubblegum gets flipped over, it does lots of damage to itself but not the self-righting bar. It just straight up to death with the bar still functioning.
4.Two vertical spinners are throwing sparks everywhere and losing hp from the beginning. Even in the robot selecting interface, they are still throwing sparks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 08, 2018, 10:15:09 PM
Feedback/personal opinions on the alpha:

1) PLEASE GIVE US A MUSIC VOLUME SLIDER! Your menu music is loud by default and not exactly subtle. People who aren't into this genre of music will absolutely hate it, and even people who like it may no want it blasting full volume every time they open the game
2) The game crashed for me the first time I opened it, second time was fine but it took an absolute age to load to versus bot selection screen. In previous builds this was nearly instant for me. Are you loading all the bot models before hopping into this screen? The load time was long enough that I thought the game had crashed again
3) I have multiple copies of resolutions in the settings menus (pic attached at bottom of the post). I assume each of these corresponds to a different refresh rate (since I'm using a 144hz monitor). A separate refresh rate option would be perfect, but failing that even just displaying the refresh rate with the resolution would clear the confusion up. Also it would be nice to get an 'apply' button in the settings screen. I couldn't find a way to apply my changed resolution, so I was stuck at 1080p
4) On the versus screen, it would be nice to have P2 default to CPU (IMO). Consider how often the player will be playing local co-op vs how often they will be playing vs the CPU.
5) The bots die way too quickly with no visual damage. I would be fine with them dying quickly, but there needs to be some audiovisual feedback of them getting obliterated in a few hits if that's the route you're going down. I appreciate that this is difficult to achieve, but it's really one of the main draws of robot combat.

I didn't play it enough to give much feedback on specific bots. Hopefully the above is some value to you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 08, 2018, 11:15:07 PM
it's not on the poll and it might be too late to add it-- maybe you can put it as a separate checkbox to see what people's reactions are-- but i would personally like to be able to play online with other players regardless of any effective ui or a perfect framerate or what-not. i dont care if i have to type in a host's ip address like back in the days of RA1 if it means i can play against friends in real time online. even if it lags a little. or even if 'real-time' battling isnt possible, i'd at least like to maybe be able to watch our bots fight in real-time, maybe controlled by ai we write ourselves to give me a sense of having an effect on the outcome of my match. :popcorn

anything along these lines even remotely possible? i dont care if it's not a part of the original release, even as a future add-on i'd be more than overjoyed. i could imagine something like this pushing back a potential release date sp again, if it's something that has to sit on the back burner for a later patch and release i'm more than happy with that.

i think i'm the only person on this forum who still wishes for a rean mano-y-mano online tournament of any type. so let me know if this is a even remotely feasible request. thank you!! :heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 08, 2018, 11:47:14 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
it's not my computer so i can't do much of anything without permission to do so and i'd hate to screw up the man's computer trying to upgrade it to another operating system. he's big on the whole 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, and the fact that certain things i want to do might not work isn't going to be the thing that changes his mind.

now starting the alpha version up, i got tjis error message. i imagine this is a byproduct of having an old computer and or operating system but if this is something resolvable i would ****ing kill to know how to fix it and get this running. im clicking the right thing to open it, right?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Plerco on September 08, 2018, 11:54:01 PM
Been having loads of fun with this, but there's a few issues, mostly with the bots themselves.

Theseus feels extremely underpowered in most respects. It dies to just about everything in the game, especially when its flipped. The weapon is quite weak, when it should probably be throwing bots around if it gets under, but it just gutrips, and sometimes ends up somehow damaging itself by doing this. I really love the bot, especially when it gets under stuff and starts flipping them around a bit, but it randomly dying when its winning the match is frustrating.

Bubblegum on the other hand feels extremely overpowered. It kills just about everything when its not flipped, and its pretty hard to get under it and land a successful flip. Problem is it doesn't really seem to be landing the colossal hits that real life full bodies do (Shrederator, Gigabyte, etc.) and instead kind of dinks off of its opponents and kills them. Its also pretty glitchy when it gets flipped

Robbie's cool, but it really needs a tail/stabilizer on its rear. Its wedge is already really ineffective, and the lack of tail makes it jump around too much to land hits, even when the target can't move.

Some overall notes- Robots die way too quickly in general. Theseus especially dies quickly, and all robots die quickly when they're against Bubblegum. In general, fights don't tend to last long. More HP for all bots would be really nice. I also agree with Badnik that there's too much contact damage as well


Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 09, 2018, 12:26:00 AM
another thing i noticed is that the background music fades out whenever a sound effect plays, which is really annoying once you pick up on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on September 09, 2018, 01:13:29 AM
What are your plans on the damage side of things? As I couldn't test it I can only assume from the trailer that causing damage is possible again  (like taking wheels off). You won't bring in soft body stuff tho I guess?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:17:32 PM
it's not on the poll and it might be too late to add it-- maybe you can put it as a separate checkbox to see what people's reactions are-- but i would personally like to be able to play online with other players regardless of any effective ui or a perfect framerate or what-not. i dont care if i have to type in a host's ip address like back in the days of RA1 if it means i can play against friends in real time online. even if it lags a little. or even if 'real-time' battling isnt possible, i'd at least like to maybe be able to watch our bots fight in real-time, maybe controlled by ai we write ourselves to give me a sense of having an effect on the outcome of my match. :popcorn

anything along these lines even remotely possible? i dont care if it's not a part of the original release, even as a future add-on i'd be more than overjoyed. i could imagine something like this pushing back a potential release date sp again, if it's something that has to sit on the back burner for a later patch and release i'm more than happy with that.

i think i'm the only person on this forum who still wishes for a rean mano-y-mano online tournament of any type. so let me know if this is a even remotely feasible request. thank you!! :heart_smiley:

Realtime multiplayer over the internet is not in the cards for this game, and most likely never will be.  In order to do it, we would have to go to a much simpler physics simulation, a la RA3, something we are not willing to do.  However, it should absolutely be possible to send someone an robot that you have created the AI for, and have them fight on a computer.  Basically, we are looking at a streamlined version of the AI mods that have been created for RA2, but built right into the Botlab.

I don't know if this is ever going to happen, but in principle it should be possible to make an AI robot on your phone, send it to your buddy's phone, then watch as the two AI robots duke it out.  Lots of things need to fall into place to get this to work, but wouldn't it be cool?  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:21:07 PM
What are your plans on the damage side of things? As I couldn't test it I can only assume from the trailer that causing damage is possible again  (like taking wheels off). You won't bring in soft body stuff tho I guess?

Damage is a big work in progress.  We have the ability to break joints already. 

We also are playing around with impact deformation, but since the models are all low poly with high-resolution textures, it doesn't look that great.  Especially when a panel gets dented inward, causing a component on the inside to clip through the outer panel.  It looks weird, and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

I am also interested in pursuing damage decals (scratches, dents, etc that are "painted" on).  This is something that we haven't figured out yet.  I feel like Unity should have a good built-in system for this, but I haven't found it yet.  Maybe in Unity 2018.3, which should be out in the next few weeks...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:24:03 PM
another thing i noticed is that the background music fades out whenever a sound effect plays, which is really annoying once you pick up on it.

 :smile: Its interesting that you would point that out.  The music ducking is intentional, and most games do it, but the fact that you noticed it means that I screwed it up and made it too obvious.

Fortunately, we now have a professional sound designer on the team who can blame me for my rookie mistakes.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 12:25:00 PM
To everyone who commented -- thank you thank you thank you!

We are working hard to collect all the comments and come up with a plan of attack for the next few months.  Keep the comments coming!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 09, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
Dude this is great!
Out of curiosity, how many robots will be able to be in one match? I think everyone wanted RA2 to include more than 4 robots in one match :D
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 01:16:47 PM
Dude this is great!
Out of curiosity, how many robots will be able to be in one match? I think everyone wanted RA2 to include more than 4 robots in one match :D

Not sure yet.  It depends on how many CPU clock cycles we can get down to, and what kind of hardware people have.  Unfortunately, Moore’s Law is no longer helping out with the latter.  CPUs aren’t getting much faster, so we will need to be careful adding more robots.  Several people are already noticing unplayably low frame rates.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 09, 2018, 04:19:29 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 04:46:10 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 09, 2018, 06:13:32 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 09, 2018, 08:12:20 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 09, 2018, 09:58:15 PM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Someone hosts their own PC and gives other people permission to control their PC (or just certain keys.)

I was one of the first to try it for RA2 ;)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/personal-tournaments/robot-wars-online-tournement/msg740486/#msg740486
https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/centauri-online-tournament-sbv/

Although it's the best option to do pseudo-online multiplayer/netplay in certain games that don't allow for netplay or online multiplayer (like RA2), it's incredibly far from ideal. Tails just mentioned it because he's a bit special
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 10, 2018, 10:01:04 AM
I think multiplayer could be possible with parsec

I hadn’t heard of Parsec.  Thank you for mentioning it.  It says that it adds 7 ms per frame, and we are already struggling to keep things under 10 ms on a strong laptop.  It might be worth a shot once we have nailed down botlab-based gameplay though.
Well, it wouldn't be something you'd have to consider. It would just be a solution for those who want to play the game in pseudo-online local multiplayer if you don't actually support online multiplayer.

This is really interesting.  So the way it works is you take a game that already supports local multiplayer with, say, 4 Xbox controllers, and play it through a Parsec signaling server with each person having their own controller and screen?

Has anyone tried it?
Someone hosts their own PC and gives other people permission to control their PC (or just certain keys.)

I was one of the first to try it for RA2 ;)
https://gametechmods.com/forums/personal-tournaments/robot-wars-online-tournement/msg740486/#msg740486
https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/centauri-online-tournament-sbv/

Although it's the best option to do pseudo-online multiplayer/netplay in certain games that don't allow for netplay or online multiplayer (like RA2), it's incredibly far from ideal. Tails just mentioned it because he's a bit special

Thanks for the links.  This actually looks super-appealing.  With the way we are using physics right now, there is no way we could do Rocket League-like online multiplayer.  I believe Rocket League game runs its physics simulation at 120 ticks per second, spending less than 1 ms per 60 Hz frame on physics.  RR2 is more like "Kerbal Space Program" -- intensely single-threaded CPU-heavy.  We are running our physics simulation at 400 ticks per second, spending 10 ms per 60 Hz frame on physics.  We don't have any room right now to do things like prediction to account for packet latency, which is what people expect in order to have a good online multiplayer experience.

The bottom line is that the only way to do online multiplayer with Robot Rumble 2 as the game currently exists is via streaming using a system like Parsec.  We need to nail down gameplay first, but fingers crossed for us to get things to the point where the streaming experience is enjoyable.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: laserpanda on September 12, 2018, 09:22:16 PM
Just tried it out. Pretty fun, though there's not much visual indication of damage. It took me a while to figure out if I'd won my first match because I killed them or because time ran out.

Is deformation planned?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on September 12, 2018, 10:45:59 PM
This build looks to be a really big step forward for the game. I've been playtesting recently and have found some bugs that might need some attention.
1:Attracted to pit
This bug occurs with all bots I've tested with where the AI decides to chase a spot on the pit rather than the player
2:Disappearing Screws
TR3 is the only bot I've seen do this but it does it consistently if put in this position.
3:Stuck in Ground:
This bug only seems to affect Bubblegum due to the size of its weapon. It will also do this occasionally on solid ground if it lands right.
4:Crazy Chain
If D.B MK II rotates too violently or something gets in between the chain it responds by totally freaking out.
5:Spawn Bug
This is a very specific bug that only occurs with D.B MK II and TR3 and only occurs in this arena.
Also, I haven't gone too far into depth with the botlab but the first two designs I created seemed to have the wheels clip through the floor, thus making it undriveable despite the wheels spinning.
Hopefully this information and videos below were helpful and I can't wait to see what comes in the next update  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2018, 08:44:31 AM
Just tried it out. Pretty fun, though there's not much visual indication of damage. It took me a while to figure out if I'd won my first match because I killed them or because time ran out.

Is deformation planned?

Damage and its visual indication are going to be a big part of the next six months of development.  We have played around with mesh deformation, but are not currently satisfied with it.  Right now the effect is extremely low-poly, which would probably look good on a low-poly-styled game, but looks really bad when we are going for photorealism.

My guess is that we will have more success going with damage textures, rather than mesh deformation.  If you are interested, be sure to join the closed beta to see things progress.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 13, 2018, 09:16:00 AM
This build looks to be a really big step forward for the game. I've been playtesting recently and have found some bugs that might need some attention.
1:Attracted to pit
This bug occurs with all bots I've tested with where the AI decides to chase a spot on the pit rather than the player
2:Disappearing Screws
TR3 is the only bot I've seen do this but it does it consistently if put in this position.
3:Stuck in Ground:
This bug only seems to affect Bubblegum due to the size of its weapon. It will also do this occasionally on solid ground if it lands right.
4:Crazy Chain
If D.B MK II rotates too violently or something gets in between the chain it responds by totally freaking out.
5:Spawn Bug
This is a very specific bug that only occurs with D.B MK II and TR3 and only occurs in this arena.
Also, I haven't gone too far into depth with the botlab but the first two designs I created seemed to have the wheels clip through the floor, thus making it undriveable despite the wheels spinning.
Hopefully this information and videos below were helpful and I can't wait to see what comes in the next update  :mrgreen:

Wow!  Thanks for the details.  The videos are a big help.

I'm hoping that once we take a close look at physics for BotLab robots, we can start sorting these issues out for the pregenerated "house" robots.  Ideally, if we can get the BotLab to the point where all of the house robots are built in the BotLab, we can completely ignore all of these bugs that existed in the Alpha release.  Of course, if we do get there, we are going to have plenty of new bugs. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 16, 2018, 08:12:47 PM
BLA BLA I QUOTED THE WRONG POST

MENTIONS AI COMBAT BASED MULTIPLAYER AND WHAT NOT.
hey! thats... totally reasonable.

no luck on the error i got though, eh? just gotta get a new one for this thing?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 16, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
I don't think developers should be held hostage to ancient standards by people who refuse to upgrade to at least semi-recent software/hardware. There's no good reason to be running a 32 bit OS (or any version of Vista for that matter) in 2018.
go to hell im running xp why dont you buy me a new computer big boy

but it is 64 bit

im signing up to test
You're running on an operating system that is no longer getting security patches. This is the equivalent of living in a house with no lock on the front door. Actually, it's more like living in a house with a hole where a front door should be, with huge neon signs pointing to the hole saying "FREE STUFF IN HERE". You don't need to buy a new PC to upgrade the operating system to a newer, safe version.

Upgrade to at least windows 7 or a lightweight linux distro if you want to be supported by any software in the future. If Microsoft doesn't bother with your OS's security anymore, there's no reason why 3rd party software developers should.
it's not my computer so i can't do much of anything without permission to do so and i'd hate to screw up the man's computer trying to upgrade it to another operating system. he's big on the whole 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' philosophy, and the fact that certain things i want to do might not work isn't going to be the thing that changes his mind.

now starting the alpha version up, i got tjis error message. i imagine this is a byproduct of having an old computer and or operating system but if this is something resolvable i would ****ing kill to know how to fix it and get this running. im clicking the right thing to open it, right?

Sorry about that error!  I don't have an XP machine to test it on, so I'm afraid that I am no help there.

I wonder, maybe it is possible to do one of the virtual gaming rigs to get access to Windows 10 and a newer graphics card?  I know it is not ideal for many people, but I was thinking of doing it myself.  I have a nice monitor, but no ability to install a graphics card on my laptop.  Next year, maybe...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 19, 2018, 05:43:38 PM
I downloaded the alpha on my main rig. When I tryed to start a loacal match or click on the left button at all, It just crashed the game. The bot lab is nice, although it is kind of hard to build, And the last button did not seem to work.
OS:Windows Server 2019 Windows Insider Build 17744
RAM: 8GB
CPU: AMD 3800

Also i would appriciate a 32 bit build of this as well. (I can also test on XP if you make a 32 bit)

You should consider also porting this to IOS and Android, it would be the best game in this genre for Mobile.

I signed up to be a beta tester as well. Great game! 
Best Regards, Asbestosstar
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 19, 2018, 07:43:38 PM
I downloaded the alpha on my main rig. When I tryed to start a loacal match or click on the left button at all, It just crashed the game. The bot lab is nice, although it is kind of hard to build, And the last button did not seem to work.
OS:Windows Server 2019 Windows Insider Build 17744
RAM: 8GB
CPU: AMD 3800

Also i would appriciate a 32 bit build of this as well. (I can also test on XP if you make a 32 bit)

You should consider also porting this to IOS and Android, it would be the best game in this genre for Mobile.

I signed up to be a beta tester as well. Great game! 
Best Regards, Asbestosstar

Oof.  Sorry to hear that.  We just took out the Impact Deformable script, which should help.  I don’t know about the Athlon 3800 though.  It was introduced in 2006, and I don’t think we are going to be able to get to a place performance-wise where it will be worth attempting to run the game on it.  We are pushing the CPU pretty hard on 2013-era machines.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 19, 2018, 07:47:58 PM
For a point of reference, the Alpha version of the game runs on a 2013 Macbook Air with an integrated GPU and a CPUmark score of 2700.  Not perfectly, but it is playable.  I can’t make any promises for the future though.  We still have a lot of physics left to figure out, and right now that is the limiting factor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on September 19, 2018, 09:44:53 PM
honestly just ignore asbestos. hes fixated on archaic outdated computers for whatever reason and probably isnt worth your time
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Asbestosstar on September 19, 2018, 11:17:26 PM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on September 20, 2018, 05:20:38 AM
He's also running a beta version of windows server for some reason. Ignore him.

@Asbes
You can't expect to run games made in 2018 on hardware or software that is well over a decade old.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Ra2Winner999 on September 20, 2018, 05:26:16 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
then you do it
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WenXiangLee on September 20, 2018, 05:28:59 AM
Ignore Asbestos.

@Asbes
You can't run a game made in 2018 on the old hardware/software. Get yourself some new hardware.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 20, 2018, 07:27:10 AM
Tfw i have a better pc then asbest
Yet to test the alpha
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 20, 2018, 10:54:27 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.

By any chance would you be willing to run CPUmark on your machine so we can get numbers to work with?  It is helpful to be able to correlate game performance to benchmark performance.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 20, 2018, 11:33:18 AM
He either has a single core Athlon 64 3800+
PassMark score is 588
Or dual core Athlon 64 3800x2
PassMark score is 1001
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:10:28 PM
can anyone think of enough ideas for threads about this game yet that it needs a whole new subforum? i think yall might be jumping the gun a little bit. this thread alone has been containing things well enough so far, i think.

dont forget how cluttered this place used to be.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:14:42 PM
hell, this thread is direct linked in the announcements up top-- it's already easily accessible from the front page of the forum. not trying being a hater but i think i make a valid point here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 090901 on September 20, 2018, 10:26:58 PM
It was given it's own subforum as before the announcement it was buried at the bottom of the forum in the last subsection of the last subforum. We felt that it has shown enough progress and promise (Let's be honest, it's pretty much better than RA3 already and that was given a whole forum section when it came out) to at least be featured more prominently on the forum. This also then allows us to use the announcement feature for other messages.

As for the whole "clutter" thing, I don''t see how adding one subforum is cluttering the forum up compared to back when we had like 5+ sections with only one active topic each. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: toAst on September 20, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
i agree with all of that except for now we've added a subforum with one active topic by removing the only active topic in another subforum

knaw mean?

i figured all twentysomething of us knew where to find it just fine. but hey, whatevs  :dance:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: yugitom on September 20, 2018, 11:20:32 PM
I never thought I'd say this but I agree with toAst.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 21, 2018, 04:19:14 AM
Can we talk about the game pls k thx
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 21, 2018, 05:32:17 AM
Dont be so quick to judge, i think its pretty new my main rig. 3.8ghz with 4 processors. I am just want
a 32 bit build for my other macines. It only prolly takes 5 minutes to do.
So you've returned, still dumb as ever though :P
Please get new hardware to play new games dude
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kill343gs on September 21, 2018, 07:42:07 AM
Back on topic please, folks.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 21, 2018, 08:10:25 AM
I really appreciate the promotion, and acknowledge the community's efforts to make RA2 what it is today.  We are working hard to make RR2 a worthy successor, and appreciate the time and interest you guys have invested in it so far.

That being said, the next six months are going to be really challenging for us.  We are officially starting the "production" phase, which means that we are going to be delving into a bunch of nitty gritty stuff with not a lot to show to the Beta testers for several months.  If all goes well, this "quiet" period should be done by the time winter is over, and we should be emerging with something solid for the beta testers to start testing in the spring.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on September 21, 2018, 02:25:00 PM
This is awesome!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Bighamburgers on September 21, 2018, 11:46:28 PM
will we have the power to share robots also nice game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 22, 2018, 07:31:22 AM
will we have the power to share robots also nice game

Yes.  Sharing is pretty rudimentary right now, but it works.  Your robot design is saved to a .RR2bot file that you can rename however you want.  You can then send it to someone else to open in the game.

This actually works right now in the Alpha release.

Just be aware that the file format might change a bit as we build out the Botlab, adding components and capabilities.  One of my goals is to get the AI into the .RR2Bot file, but I haven't started on this yet.  The vision is for the AI to be built right into the BotLab itself, but right now the .RR2bot file format doesn't support this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on September 22, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
BFE 2,0 confirmed bois!
Tried the build, and im speechless. Where do i preorder the game XD
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 22, 2018, 01:19:37 PM
BFE 2,0 confirmed bois!
Tried the build, and im speechless. Where do i preorder the game XD

Awesome!  I’m thrilled that you like it so far!

No pre-orders yet, I’m afraid.  Next closed beta build won’t be available for a few months at least.  We have significant work to do between now and then.   Just be sure to sign up for the beta on www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Bighamburgers on September 23, 2018, 11:10:52 PM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on September 24, 2018, 05:44:55 AM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: min440303 on October 04, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
can't we make the chassis using different shapes in this version?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Jaydee99 on October 04, 2018, 12:30:14 PM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Would it be possible to transfer models from the earlier releases when the finished game is made?

I know that's not possible to do for people who haven't downloaded the demo but for those who have...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 06, 2018, 07:45:39 AM
does anyone have the link for the download with carbide and original sin? I just found out they were in the game and got removed

Sorry about that!  We couldn’t get licensing rights for Carbide, Original Sin, or Eruption, so we removed them from the game entirely.  The early pre-alpha builds with them are no longer available for download.
Would it be possible to transfer models from the earlier releases when the finished game is made?

I know that's not possible to do for people who haven't downloaded the demo but for those who have...

Unfortunately, no.  We have an obligation to respect the intellectual property rights of the IP holders for Carbide, Original Sin, and Eruption.  We can’t include them in our game without permission.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on October 13, 2018, 03:24:17 PM
can't we make the chassis using different shapes in this version?

Definitely!  We have some designs on Twitter that people have built with the Alpha version of the game that include multiple shapes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TeamXtreemer on November 20, 2018, 12:34:55 PM
this looks awesome!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on November 21, 2018, 06:13:58 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on November 21, 2018, 06:48:01 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 07:15:17 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on November 21, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
what do you save images as in order to use them on bots in Robot Rumble?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 09:14:40 AM
what do you save images as in order to use them on bots in Robot Rumble?

Assuming I can get it working, iimported textures will be .png files with transparency.  I’m not sure about the resolution yet, but I am eyeing 2048x2048.  Right now I am working on just albedo (diffuse color + transparency), but I hope to eventually get the rest of the maps (normal, metal/roughness, ambient occlusion, height) working as well. 

Assuming we can go all the way with importing .obj files along with a complete set of textures, this means you should be able to put screws, bolts, cutouts, scratches, dirt, and pretty much anything else into a model in Blender/Substance Painter, then import all of the parts and assemble them in the BotLab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on November 21, 2018, 11:08:33 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
If you put out some documentation on how RR2's bot files are structured, I'm sure someone here could cook up a converter on their own at some point, if there was any demand for such a thing. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on November 21, 2018, 11:14:25 AM
Can you import RA2 designs into Robot Rumble as well as custom textures and decals?
no, 2 different games

We haven't really thought about doing that, and to be honest, it would be a lot of work to try to write and troubleshoot a custom converter that would probably delay RR2 quite a bit.

That being said, I'm hoping you guys like the new BotLab.  Both @tashic and I are working on the BotLab right now, with the following in the works:

1. Texture painting: selecting and painting custom decals on faces.
2. Texture saving and loading: exporting UV texture maps for editing in an external program (Photoshop/GIMP), then re-importing the into the game.
3. Getting BotLab robots fighting each other.

Once these are done, I am going to attempt to tackle importing custom .obj files as shapes.  If we can figure out how to do this, then users should have the ability to create a 3D model and UV map it in Maya/Blender/3DS Max/Modo/ZBrush/whatever, texture it in Substance Painter/Photoshop/GIMP/whatever, then bring it into the game as a custom shape.  If we can get this working, it should be possible for users to create their own movie-quality robots that they can then share with other users via an .RR2Bot file.

I know that this doesn't address the original desire to import old robots, but I hope it will make for some MUCH nicer looking new ones.
If you put out some documentation on how RR2's bot files are structured, I'm sure someone here could cook up a converter on their own at some point, if there was any demand for such a thing. Just a thought.

I like that idea.  We don't have everything figured out yet -- we will need to figure out how textures are going to fit into the file.  Probably as Base64 encoded PNG files into the JSON, but we don't know where yet.

I think we are going to keep everything wrapped up as a single JSON file, rather than an entire zipped folder full of text and image files.  It should make it nicer for sharing.
Title: Robot Rumble 2.0 progress update...
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 07:29:41 PM
I tried Robot Rumble 2.0, and I got some results...

It glitched my computer to death. Even with simple bots. :(:(:(:(:(

I don't know about you, but this game's a hazard...to my computer at least. I'll try it on a different one, but until then, utter disappointment.

This should really be under Sight News and Feedback, but an error occurred. Sorry.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 10, 2018, 07:48:06 PM
If this is a bump- sorry.

I tried Robot Rumble 2.0. It literally killed my computer with glitches. Can that be fixed, please?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on December 11, 2018, 12:44:41 AM
They can't really fix the glitches if you don't tell them what the glitches are. What did you do that caused it to glitch, and what was the glitch?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 11, 2018, 01:24:53 AM
I tried Robot Rumble 2.0, and I got some results...

It glitched my computer to death. Even with simple bots. :(:(:(:(:(

I don't know about you, but this game's a hazard...to my computer at least. I'll try it on a different one, but until then, utter disappointment.

This should really be under Sight News and Feedback, but an error occurred. Sorry.
Dont have a sh** computer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 05:30:46 AM
If this is a bump- sorry.

I tried Robot Rumble 2.0. It literally killed my computer with glitches. Can that be fixed, please?

Sorry to hear that!

What kind of a computer are using to run the game?

Where are the glitches occurring?  Is this just in battle, or did the glitches occur when the game was first loaded?

We are trying to target Windows and Mac laptops as well as desktops, and if it doesn't run at all we definitely need to take a look at it to see what we can do.  Right now my lower limit is an early 2014 MacBook Air at 1366 x 768 resolution with a dual-core i5 and integrated GPU.  On this machine on its highest resolution, combat runs at 35 fps.  The game chugs on a 2016 15" MacBook Pro at 2880 x 1800, but when I drop the resolution down to half, it holds a steady 60 fps.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:44:23 AM
In battles and builds. It hardly even works on my computer, but maybe my computer is just plain awful.
I can't even put together a single bot!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:47:24 AM
I tried to send the link to this forum. What happened? it had a VIRUS I had to remove!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 11, 2018, 08:54:59 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:59:49 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on December 11, 2018, 09:25:41 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
This has to be bait haha, whose multi is this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 09:28:44 AM
What exactly does the game do to your computer? And when doing what?
It will help us fix things if you can be more specific.

Also what link are you talking about?

...So I downloaded the gamy to my tiny laptop, and every time I try to fight, or build a bot, it glitches!
Is there a way to fix the glitching?

Also, I tried to send the download of RR2 to GTM, and it reported a virus. That could be linked to the glitching.
This has to be bait haha, whose multi is this

Nope. No bait.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on December 11, 2018, 09:32:53 AM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 09:54:45 AM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.

Game glitches like there's too much movement. Other than that, graphics are GREAT!

AntiVirus reported that it found a virus before the second time I played it. I put it to work removing it, and it was removed from my game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 12:57:15 PM
Did the game freeze when starting a battle/going to the botlab or does it start and mess with things (physics stuff? model/texture weirdness?)?

Did your antivirus report the virus or whatever you used to upload the download did?
If the virus was in the game the antivirus should have found it before you could open the game in the first place.

Game glitches like there's too much movement. Other than that, graphics are GREAT!

AntiVirus reported that it found a virus before the second time I played it. I put it to work removing it, and it was removed from my game.

The glitchiness sounds like a low frame rate.  Have you tried going into settings during combat and reducing the screen resolution?  If this does the trick, then your GPU is limited by its fill rate.  This is pretty common on laptops.  If it doesn't affect the frame rate at all, then it might be a CPU speed problem.

In either case, would you mind letting us know what computer you are using to run the game?  It is helpful for benchmarking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 03:36:57 PM
Screen resolution is in settings, right?

Anyway, the computer I'm trying RR on is a small Google laptop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 11, 2018, 04:45:26 PM
Screen resolution is in settings, right?

Anyway, the computer I'm trying RR on is a small Google laptop.

That's correct.

Interesting -- I wasn't aware that Google made laptops capable of running Windows or MacOS.  Can you find the specs on the machine, or the make and model number so we can look them up?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 11, 2018, 05:43:26 PM
Only google laptops i know that exist are Chromebooks and Pixelbook.
They have Google OS and it isnt compatible with any windows program
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on December 11, 2018, 08:11:45 PM
Only google laptops i know that exist are Chromebooks and Pixelbook.
They have Google OS and it isnt compatible with any windows program

Thank you.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 23, 2018, 09:25:02 AM
New BotLab trailer is up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg)

New Steam page is up!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/)

Merry Christmas. :)

Texture painting is now working, and we have a few more things to do with the robot workshop before we shift focus to asset production.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on December 23, 2018, 10:54:11 AM
New BotLab trailer is up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD0nETeRKAg)

New Steam page is up!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/884180/Robot_Rumble_2/)

Merry Christmas. :)

Texture painting is now working, and we have a few more things to do with the robot workshop before we shift focus to asset production.
The progress in the vid shown is huge next to first release of the game, keep up the work!
Seen the trailer, signed up for beta!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on December 23, 2018, 11:04:19 AM
impressed with the progress. can't wait.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhatAmI on December 23, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
Noice. I'll love to see what people can make with the BotLab.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 06:55:36 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on December 31, 2018, 07:00:24 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
I think it should be like how DSL-IRL RA2 tourneys are run. With the clipping allowed, but as long as it can be done in real life and extenders/plates that intersect can be cut IRL to give slot, allow things that otherwise won't be possible due to game limitation but possible in real life, and of course, no intersecting motors or batteries with another of those
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 07:10:04 AM
I've been reading through Serge's mod to remove a bunch of built-in RA2 limitations in the thread below.  There is a discussion about whether or not the game should prevent components from intersecting each other.  It is currently on our list of things to implement for RR2, but we haven't done it yet.  It looks like a lot of people would rather have the component clipping check disabled, and just leave things up to whoever is running the tournament to make sure that robots are legal.

What do you think?  Should RR2 check to make sure you don't have one component intersecting with another component?

https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/ (https://gametechmods.com/forums/modifications/robot-arena-2-component-freedom-(remove-7-component-limit!)/)

PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:
I think it should be like how DSL-IRL RA2 tourneys are run. With the clipping allowed, but as long as it can be done in real life and extenders/plates that intersect can be cut IRL to give slot, allow things that otherwise won't be possible due to game limitation but possible in real life, and of course, no intersecting motors or batteries with another of those

Would this work?:
1. Anything built using the shape builder, including both the shape designated to be the "chassis", as well as any additional shapes that are added, can be positioned anywhere and can clip anything.
2. Anything that is in the BotLab already as its own separate component (motors, batteries, electronics, wheels) will be prevented from clipping.(****We haven't implemented this yet.)
3. Any object can be attached to any surface of any other object.  If you attach anything to the axle of a motor, it will spin.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on December 31, 2018, 07:35:03 AM
I think given the choice of one over the other, the game should definitely enforce a no-clipping rule, no doubt. It adds challenge to the game and is logical, first time/new players would probably get confused if the game let you put stuff anywhere at all, not to mention that it would make the game seem unpolished to the new player, I think. However it would be nice to have a noclip mode where we can place components wherever, maybe hidden being a cheat(bot2)/konami code or something. To ensure that people can't cheat with tournament entries or whatever, I think that enabling such a mode for a bot would have to add some sort of flag to the bot file to allow the user to see if the bot has been built 'legit' or not.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Reier on December 31, 2018, 11:08:49 AM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on December 31, 2018, 12:31:05 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhatAmI on December 31, 2018, 12:35:35 PM
There should be no clipping in RR2 because it is (an attempt of) a realism game. Clipping would clip (help me) the game out of the boundaries of realism.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on January 01, 2019, 01:18:27 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 01, 2019, 03:00:27 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.

Sorry for the confusion!  Rather than "CAD->RR2 workflow", I should have said "3D surface modeling (Blender, Max, Maya, etc)->RR2 workflow".  At some point the CAD output needs to be converted into a bunch of low poly triangles for use in the game, and rather than reinventing the wheel, I would rather leverage software created by a professional. 

When I'm modeling parts for the game, I convert mechanical drawings to images, insert them as reference images in blender, then create a low-poly version using the 2D reference images.  I have tried bringing in parts created in TinkerCad and Fusion 360, but the geometries created by those programs are unsatisfactory for use in the game.  I'm hoping to get to the point where users can create stuff in Blender, pull it into a Unity project, export it as an asset bundle, then import it into RR2 for use in the robot workshop.  I haven't tried it yet, but this should work in principle.

Regarding using RR2 to test out new spinner shapes, be wary of the limitations of the physics engine.  A 6000 RPM spinner revolves at 100 revolutions per second.  Right now RR2's physics simulation is running at 400 updates per second, so the spinner would spin 90 degrees in between each update.  This creates all sorts of problems when it comes to collision detection and resolution.  As much as I would like to have a perfect spinner simulator, RR2 isn't going to be it.  Realistically speaking, I'm hoping to have something that my students can use to mock up ideas early on in their design process, to see how different robot styles might play against each other.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Somebody on January 01, 2019, 05:49:03 PM
please please please do NOT allow parts to clip. We already have one buggy game that does this when it never should have in the first place. We want to have to put thought into where components are placed, otherwise we might as well just build stuff in CAD.

PLEASE address the failings of ra2, dont mimic them for the sake of familiarity!

Roger!  I’ll take a look at it this weekend.   :smile:

We’re trying to figure out the CAD->RR2 workflow in parallel to this.

A pretty standard output from all sorts of CAD packages is a .dxf file, which is generally a 2D output of a part. Being able to import .dxf files and set the scaling/sizing on them somehow, and extrude them to a given thickness, would be an amazing and easy to use tool in comparison to the usual process of getting new parts into RA2. Like I have a lot of spinning bar ideas that I'd love to test out, but don't want to spend the money/time/effort to test them in the limited environment of real robotics. This would let me do a great apples to apples comparison.

Sorry for the confusion!  Rather than "CAD->RR2 workflow", I should have said "3D surface modeling (Blender, Max, Maya, etc)->RR2 workflow".  At some point the CAD output needs to be converted into a bunch of low poly triangles for use in the game, and rather than reinventing the wheel, I would rather leverage software created by a professional. 

When I'm modeling parts for the game, I convert mechanical drawings to images, insert them as reference images in blender, then create a low-poly version using the 2D reference images.  I have tried bringing in parts created in TinkerCad and Fusion 360, but the geometries created by those programs are unsatisfactory for use in the game.  I'm hoping to get to the point where users can create stuff in Blender, pull it into a Unity project, export it as an asset bundle, then import it into RR2 for use in the robot workshop.  I haven't tried it yet, but this should work in principle.

Regarding using RR2 to test out new spinner shapes, be wary of the limitations of the physics engine.  A 6000 RPM spinner revolves at 100 revolutions per second.  Right now RR2's physics simulation is running at 400 updates per second, so the spinner would spin 90 degrees in between each update.  This creates all sorts of problems when it comes to collision detection and resolution.  As much as I would like to have a perfect spinner simulator, RR2 isn't going to be it.  Realistically speaking, I'm hoping to have something that my students can use to mock up ideas early on in their design process, to see how different robot styles might play against each other.

Ahhhhhh I see, it makes sense that it would be far too detailed of a model. Otherwise, I don't think we're doing anymore than 2000 on the real robot, but even then it would still likely be too fast. Either way, I'm excited to play with it as it progresses.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hercules on January 20, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
This looks so professionally done, can`t wait to play this
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
This looks so professionally done, can`t wait to play this

Thank you!  It is a labor of love.

I’m hoping to have more updates soon.  @tashic is hard at work doing the UX for servo motors, I’m reworking the damage system (2, and potentially 3 types of damage), @anarchy_fox is modeling new robots, and our sound engineer is working on making everything sound good.  We are all part-timers, and it is amazing that it is all coming together.  It just goes to show the strength of this community.

I’m working on the game for a good chunk of the day today, and should be able to do an update in the next 10 hours or so.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on January 21, 2019, 06:53:13 AM
This is gonna be GOOD.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 01:43:19 PM
Two new screenshots, hot off the presses:

1. The first is @tashic's work on setting servo motor limits.  The slider lets you adjust start and end limits.

As a bonus, this screenshot also includes daisy-chained motors: motor -> 12" wheel with a motor attached -> 12" wheel with a motor attached:

(http://robot-rumble.com/Chain%20of%20Motors.png)


2. The second screenshot shows the new "RR2 Component Tool".  This tool will allow users to create component designs in a separate Unity project (Unity is now a free download for Windows and Mac), export them as asset bundles, then import them into the game.  It is possible to export designs as asset bundles, but it isn't yet possible to import them into the game.  Once we get motor scripts sorted, this is next on my to-do list.  I would like to eventually make all game assets using this tool, then put the tool on GitHub as a free download.

(http://robot-rumble.com/RR2_Component_Tool.png)

Let us know what you think!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on January 21, 2019, 03:41:36 PM
Free component-modding tools? Shut up and take my money!

Could you elaborate on the "daisy-chaining", though? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Dark-Al on January 21, 2019, 04:06:32 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 05:04:49 PM
Free component-modding tools? Shut up and take my money!

Could you elaborate on the "daisy-chaining", though? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work.

Yup.  :smile:  Assuming we can get the import function working, you should be able to create any model you like in Blender, then bring it into the game with a full set of PBR textures.

“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 05:05:57 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.

Agreed.  Assuming we can get this working,  we are open to ideas on where to host the repository.  Maybe gametechmods?  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on January 21, 2019, 05:41:05 PM
I love the idea of being able to openly create components through the component tool. I feel that if this is going to be in-placed, I would love to see support/interrogation of the Steam workshop or at least have somewhere on the internet for player and mod creators to share the components they've made through this tool, for other users to download and play around with.

Agreed.  Assuming we can get this working,  we are open to ideas on where to host the repository.  Maybe gametechmods?  :smile:
GTM sounds good. Steam is also good imo
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Scrap Daddy on January 21, 2019, 06:42:26 PM
This looks incredible, gentlemen. Just watched the video and want to express my support. I'm excited for this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 21, 2019, 07:34:07 PM
This looks incredible, gentlemen. Just watched the video and want to express my support. I'm excited for this.

Thank you!  Be sure to give the Alpha a go on itch.io if you are interested.  Also, we will have a closed beta some time in the next few months.  All you have to do to get access is sign up to be a Beta tester at www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on January 21, 2019, 09:44:15 PM
“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
ah so its like attaching two components together except without ap's so stuff can go anywhere?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on January 22, 2019, 05:26:10 AM
“Daisy chaining” already works in a primitive way in the Alpha release.  You can add components to an axle, but you can also “weld” anything onto any other surface.  Want to make spiked wheels?  Just add spikes to the surface of the wheel.
ah so its like attaching two components together except without ap's so stuff can go anywhere?

Exactly.  Right now objects just snap to any surface.  If you snap an object to an axle, it will spin.  You could do spike->spike->spike->wheel->spike->wheel->shape->spike->etc...

It is possible to attach motors to axles in such a way as to make a huge daisy-chain of motors that all spin.  Of course, if you try to do too many of these, things will break pretty quickly.  Linked physics joints tend not to be stable.  Play around a little with DB Mk2's flail for physics explosion fun. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on February 04, 2019, 09:50:16 AM
Recent alpha build is out!
http://www.robot-rumble.com/
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on February 05, 2019, 06:13:26 AM
Pretty sure it's the same build from 05/09/2018 as before. Excited for new updates and beta stuff soon though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 05, 2019, 03:02:39 PM
Pretty sure it's the same build from 05/09/2018 as before. Excited for new updates and beta stuff soon though!

The build available on itch.io is the Alpha build from September.  It includes the ability to create robots and fight them, but is still pretty rudimentary as far as features go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: maybeChrisJack on February 06, 2019, 06:54:34 AM
That's what I thought, cool. (I'm from the UK so that date I wrote is 05 Sept and not 09 May ha)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 06, 2019, 08:50:18 PM
That's what I thought, cool. (I'm from the UK so that date I wrote is 05 Sept and not 09 May ha)

Oh man.  Sorry about that -- I totally didn't consider that possibility.  Gotta love inconsistent conventions!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 09:32:03 AM
Over the past few days I have been looking at different ways to do AI scripting in the game.  At this point, I would like to build the scripting right into the Robot Workshop, rather than requiring users to leave the game and load up a separate text editor to modify the AI script as it is done in RA2.

Due to the amount of time and effort required to implement a working solution, it looks like Python scripting is not an option.  Instead, I have narrowed AI scripting down to 2 languages: miniscript and [moddable].

miniscript looks like Python, with indent-based nesting.  Here is an example of miniscript code:

Code: [Select]
for i in range(1,100)
  if i == 42 then continue
  print("Considering " + i + "...")
end for

[moddable] looks like javascript, with curly brackets and semicolons.  Here is an example of [moddable] code:

Code: [Select]
//Loop through every movable object
for(objName : movingObjs)
{
//if moving objects should be stopped
if (!on)
{
//Stop the velocity of the physics component of the moving object
CallNativeFunc(objName,"ScrollingObject","Update");
} else
{
//Otherwise re-initiate the physics component of the moving object to start the movement again
CallNativeFunc(objName,"ScrollingObject","Start");
}
}

The idea is that every player has the option to create their own AI for their robot.  When you share your robot with someone else, the custom AI script that you wrote goes with it.  Assuming all goes well, writing custom AI code will become a core part of the game, just like positioning motors and shapes on your robot.

Given the choice between the two AI programming languages above, which language would you prefer?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2019, 09:36:38 AM
I would much prefer miniscript, it looks a lot more simple for complete noobies to understand, which I think is important for this specific use case. It also looks quite pythonic, which would make transitioning from RA2 easier in comparison to using something like [moddable].
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on February 28, 2019, 10:21:54 AM
How much freedom are we giving?

Will it be a set of defined functions which we edit the contents of?
Or will there be a lot more available?

The issue with RA2 AI is that you could modify parameters which were unrelated to movement/weaponry and make instant win AIs.

I almost feel like a drag and drop overlay might be more intuitive from a basic programming level.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
How much freedom are we giving?

Will it be a set of defined functions which we edit the contents of?
Or will there be a lot more available?

The issue with RA2 AI is that you could modify parameters which were unrelated to movement/weaponry and make instant win AIs.

I almost feel like a drag and drop overlay might be more intuitive from a basic programming level.

Right now I'm thinking that the most straightforward way to do it would be the following:

1. Expose a bunch of values to the AI. For example, all robots would have access to a pathfinding "findNearestWaypoint()" function that would come from a Unity navmesh, as well as rigidbody position, rotation, battery, heat, and other state variables. In addition, players will have the ability to add "sensors" to their robot. When an enemy enters a one of the sensor trigger zones, the AI should be notified.

2. The AI should be capable of sending input commands to the robot's motors, just like a button press on the keyboard or a controller would do.  For digital inputs, control signal values would either be 0 (off) or 1 (on).  For analog inputs, the control signal values would be clamped to a range from -1 (all the way negative) to +1 (all the way positive).

3. We would like to have complete flexibility for players to script any sort of AI they would like: behavior tree, FSM, utility, etc.  It is worth noting that a complete script must be contained in a single file.  Both [moddable] and miniscript allow you to create your own variables and functions for use within the script.


There is someone in existence who has made a drag and drop UI (block coding) for miniscript, but that person is currently working on another game and is unavailable to work on RR2.  Recreating Scratch or Blox inside of Unity is a pretty big task, but at a minimum I would like to get a basic code editor working.

What were the instant win parameters in RA2?  I would definitely want to avoid these!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 10:53:17 AM
I just asked the miniscript vs [moddable] question to a bunch of high school students.  It was a 50% / 50% split between students who preferred the miniscript style vs the [moddable] style of coding.

Awesome.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on February 28, 2019, 11:03:14 AM
In RA2 AI code has access to both bot's chassis health values IIRC, so you could make an AI file that gave your bot infinite chassis HP or instantly set your opponent's chassis HP to zero. Pretty sure you can do the same with points, specific component HP values etc. etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on February 28, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 12:54:42 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
Neither language has a robust set of external math libraries.  Here is the complete API for each:

http://luminaryapps.com/temp/MiniScript-demo/MiniScript-Manual.pdf (http://luminaryapps.com/temp/MiniScript-demo/MiniScript-Manual.pdf)

https://moddable.softrare.eu/#manpages/api.html (https://moddable.softrare.eu/#manpages/api.html)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on February 28, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
The issue with Meltybrain in RA2 is that it's ONLY possible with AI. There's no real way to do it (at least that isn't cludgy as hell) for a player-controlled bot. If you can find a way to get meltybrain to work for both player and AI driven bots, I can't see why it would be an issue
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on February 28, 2019, 02:45:22 PM
I echo what Badger says. I imagine you can hide those values from the user.

The other disputed factor in RA2 was movements that were not "human reproducible" along the lines of rapidly switching a motor on and off to save power or doing fancy things such as meltybrain.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of how it should we to though. I have very little preference for either language. What sort of math libraries do they include? I imagine that might be a factor in more complicated routines.

Uh oh.  I had fully assumed that people would be okay with melty brain controls.

We can do something where state is only updated and made available to the AI every 0.1 seconds, so even though the AI can run at 60 FPS, it is only reading new state information at 10 FPS.  Or we could do it in reverse, where state is read every 60 fps, but control signals are only applied to the motors every 10 FPS.

I fully expect that good AI controls would be able to kick a human player's butt.  At least that is what I had in my head -- when competing against other players, you are putting your very best AI against their very best AI.
The issue with Meltybrain in RA2 is that it's ONLY possible with AI. There's no real way to do it (at least that isn't cludgy as hell) for a player-controlled bot. If you can find a way to get meltybrain to work for both player and AI driven bots, I can't see why it would be an issue

I hadn't really thought about that.  I suppose the problem would be that as a player you could potentially fight against a meltybrain robot, but wouldn't have a chance to make one yourself.

I have already solved a similar problem by making an electronic stability control system that works nicely by cutting power to wheels to help a player drive straight.  I was thinking of making this an option that you could select while driving.  Maybe I could make a meltybrain driving option that operates with the same basic principle?

Has anyone driven a meltybrain robot before?  Does it still use forward/back/left/right controls, or do you tell it to travel in a particular direction, then using a gyroscope or something to go in that direction?

This could get interesting.  Depending on how quickly the meltybrain is spinning, the physics system might not update quickly enough to actually control the robot.  Physics currently runs at 400 fps.  Does anyone have any experience building real-life meltybrain systems?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on March 01, 2019, 07:02:19 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 07:14:06 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on March 01, 2019, 07:19:32 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 07:31:39 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on March 01, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Take Google's Deep mind AI, and use it in this game, this specific AI can learn by itself, and it has taught itself how to walk, so I think it could teach itself to play RR2, but it's probably impossible to do
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 09:10:52 AM
How complex is the game's AI going to be? Will it be like RA2, where the robots more or less just drive straight at each other, or will you be able to program more complex behaviours? Things like pushing opponents towards hazards, timing flips instead of hitting the button instantly, preserving CO2 when it starts to run out, trying to aim for specific points like wheels...

Basically, we've covered that the AI shouldn't be able to do anything that a human player can't. But ideally, the opposite should be true, and human's shouldn't be able to do anything that an AI can't. I know that's unlikely, but the more lifelike the AI is, the better, IMO. It would prevent what you get in RA2 sometimes, where two robots with equal wedginess just push each other slowly round in a circle for three minutes.

Caveat: We are going with miniscript for now, and I haven’t explored the language yet. Bearing this in mind, I can see two limitations at this point:

1. AI scripts are going to be limited to a single file — no includes.
2. The available inputs to the AI are whatever data we choose to include from the native code (C# in this case) side.  I am totally open to taking suggestions at this point.  We can choose to be more precise than just driving at the chassis origin or COM.  If we want, we can choose to target the nearest motor, or get a list of all of the motors and target the farthest one.  At this point we don’t have anything coded, so anything is technically possible.  It is just a matter of converting ideas into reality.
What if we use actual artificial intelligence?

What did you have in mind?
Take Google's Deep mind AI, and use it in this game, this specific AI can learn by itself, and it has taught itself how to walk, so I think it could teach itself to play RR2, but it's probably impossible to do

That isn’t something we had planned to implement, and I don’t think miniscript has the ability to do http requests.  It might be worth asking Joe Strout, miniscript’s creator, if he plans to include something like this though.  If it is possible in miniscript, then it should be possible for any player to do it themselves.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Squirrel_Monkey on March 01, 2019, 10:19:08 AM
"Taking Google's DeepMind AI" is way beyond the scope of this.

We're talking about a simple set of logic that takes the available inputs from the game and outputs commands to the robot. This should be possible in any basic language. Miniscript seems perfectly adequate. I would have to have a play around before really commenting too much.

Maybe you could create a little demo with 2 simple robots that can drive, turn and activate some kind of weapon. Then if you expose arena/bot parameters as readable and motor/weapons as writeable we can try it out.

I'm a software engineer , although I'm usually working with C/C++, I should be able to give some useful feedback.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 01, 2019, 10:41:03 AM
We are starting work on an in-game miniscript code editor today, and I'm hoping to have something very basic working by the first beta release. This should include a very basic script to drive toward the nearest enemy and turn on the weapon.

Once upon a time I mentioned by the end of March for the first beta, so I'm going to try to stick to that.  We'll see though.  We still have a lot to build before we are ready to release.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Impossible343 on March 02, 2019, 07:09:30 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but will there be basic default AI scripts for different weapon types that the player can apply straight to a robot? Just thinking for players who might find writing AI scripts to be difficult, if they’ve never done any scripting or basic programming. That said, I did look up MiniScript and it looks pretty simple to use, even compared to python.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 02, 2019, 07:27:03 AM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but will there be basic default AI scripts for different weapon types that the player can apply straight to a robot? Just thinking for players who might find writing AI scripts to be difficult, if they’ve never done any scripting or basic programming. That said, I did look up MiniScript and it looks pretty simple to use, even compared to python.

I showed miniscript around to quite a few people yesterday, and yours was a pretty common request.

The first thing I would like to get working is a default AI script that simply drives toward the nearest waypoint.  If there aren't any obstacles in the way, this means driving directly at the nearest opponent.  This script will be exposed and editable in the Robot Workshop.

I think the next step would be to have "code snippets", where you can copy-paste a script in to do a certain thing.  I'm hoping that most people can use the code snippets, then tweak the numbers to their liking.

No promises yet on anything more advanced than that (drag-and-drop, etc).  Lets wait until after the first beta to get some feedback on it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 05, 2019, 08:17:02 AM
Things are tearing along at quite a clip right now.  We are shooting to have our first Beta out at the end of March.  Here are some of the things we are working on this week:

1. Fight your own custom-built robots in the arena vs pre-built robots in exhibition matches. (Done)
2. Give your robot a custom paint job. (Working, but with a very limited brush selection.)
3. RR2 Component Modding Tool - This is a separate Unity3D project that we will place on GitHub that will allow you to create your own robot components and import them into the game.  (Under development. Probably won't make the first Beta.)
4. Write your own robot AI in miniscript. (Under development. I am hopeful this will make the first Beta in a very rudimentary way.)
5. More motor types: servors, linear actuators. (Under development. We should have at least some of these working for the first Beta.)
6. Tournament mode. (Started, but most likely will not be ready for the first Beta.)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 07, 2019, 03:23:56 PM
AI is now moddable with miniscript!  Miniscript is completely sandboxed from the main code, which means that users shouldn't normally be able to cheat the game with miniscript unless they really try.  Bear in mind that I say this without having done any user testing whatsoever.  :smile:

Right now miniscript is accessible only by me.  In the next few weeks I will be working on exposing the scripts to you guys for the Beta release.  We have an in-game miniscript code editor in the works, so you shouldn't have to leave the game to edit your AI like you do for RA2.

All of the old AI still exists by default, but you can override values and change things in miniscript.  I have exposed all of the AI variables to be read by miniscript, and am allowing miniscript to control 5 values: vRaw, hRaw, axeDown, retractWeapon, and spinnerOn.  If one of these 5 values is not set by miniscript, it is left in its original state.  In the script I have below, this means that driving works as normal, but the weapons are never triggered.  This means that the robots only push, but never turn on their weapons.

Here is the current list of variables to be read by and set by miniscript.  We will need to add to this list when we add things like trigger zone sensors in the Robot Workshop.

Readable:
    selfPosition
    selfRotation
    nearestWaypoint // This is taken from a NavMesh.  It is used if there isn't a direct path to the target.
    nearestTargetPosition
    nearestTargetRotation
    crossProduct // This is the cross product of our current heading vector with the direction to the target.  It is used to compute the steering signal.
    controlSignal // This is the steering signal computed by the existing AI.
    dotProduct  // This is the dot product of our current heading vector with the direction to the target.  It is used to compute the forward/backward signal.
    nearestTargetImmobileTime
    isImmobile
    selfImmobileTime

Settable:
    hRaw // The raw left/right signal given to the controller.  This is equivalent to pushing the right/left arrows or "D"/"A" keys.
    vRaw // The raw up/down signal given to the controller.  This is equivalent to pushing the up/down arrows or "W"/"S" keys.
    axeDown
    retractWeapon
    spinnerOn

Here is the miniscript code I am using so that D.B. can beat up on Bubblegum.  They are both using this script, and D.B. is a better pusher, and Bubblegum's weapon is never turned on:

Code: [Select]
while 1
            hRaw = controlSignal
            vRaw = dotProduct
            spinnerOn = false
            wait(0.1)
        end while 

Edit: Added spinnerOn = false to force Bubblegum to not spin.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 08, 2019, 03:37:28 PM
Here's D.B. staring down Crabsolutely Crawful.

Neither of them are going anywhere at the moment.  Setting hRaw and vRaw to something other than zero should do the trick...

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/AICodeEditorVersion0.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on March 08, 2019, 04:42:46 PM
I know its a buttload of extra work and also that I'm a bit late to the party but I think the most ideal way to program robots would be through a graphical language. Those tend to be much more friendly towards those that aren't familiar with programming (and would also be more familiar to people who use stuff like labview).

If you were to come up with your own icons it would probably be possible to have a 1-to-1 correspondence to miniscript (so at least a transpiler could be easy). Maybe just keep this as a suggestion for when after all the more important stuff is finished.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 08, 2019, 05:19:19 PM
I know its a buttload of extra work and also that I'm a bit late to the party but I think the most ideal way to program robots would be through a graphical language. Those tend to be much more friendly towards those that aren't familiar with programming (and would also be more familiar to people who use stuff like labview).

If you were to come up with your own icons it would probably be possible to have a 1-to-1 correspondence to miniscript (so at least a transpiler could be easy). Maybe just keep this as a suggestion for when after all the more important stuff is finished.

I hear you.  It would be cool to make a block-based visual coding system.  I would like to wait to get some feedback on the Beta (don’t forget to sign up!) before we march down that path though.  I suspect that simple things like picking clear names for variables, and having a few good examples will go a long way though.

Once this little piece of the game is ready for beta, I will most likely be shifting focus over to things like robot components, and getting a tournament system in place.  I am definitely planning to come back to AI before launch though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 25, 2019, 11:04:16 AM
There is a new Alpha build coming on Thursday night!

The latest build should be available on Friday at https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds).

Here's a preview of what you can do in the new build:

(http://robot-rumble.com/ScoopyflailVsBubblegum-Alpha2-3-25-2019.png)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 25, 2019, 11:42:06 AM
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 25, 2019, 08:29:28 PM
Quick suggestion: It might be a good idea to put the selectable bots in a list of some sort or another, instead of putting all the possible options on the screen at once. I think it'll look cleaner, and it will scale better with more bots than your current solution. Maybe look at how either RA2 or Robot Wars: Extreme Destruction do this. Slightly different implementations of the same idea.

I'm looking forward to testing the new build 👍

Thanks for the suggestion!  I added it to the Trello list.

Now that people can create their own robots, this will start to become an issue.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Serge on March 26, 2019, 07:33:09 PM
PS - Serge, incredible work!  :beer:

:heart_smiley:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/RR2-4playerbattle.png)

Alpha version 2 is out!!!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)

We are planning to keep the Alpha builds free to the public, but be sure to sign up for the closed Beta over on http://www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on March 28, 2019, 05:18:25 PM
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2019, 05:29:59 PM
Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
After noticing some serious Boo-Boos on today's Alpha Build 2, we have just released Alpha Build 2.01.  If you just downloaded Alpha Build 2, please head back to https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds. (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds.) to get the update.

In this fix:
1. Manta, TR3, and Royal Robby's weapons are working.
2. Music works too.

Also, if you haven't already, please remember to sign up for the closed beta at www.robot-rumble.com (http://www.robot-rumble.com).

Feedback:
- Default Windows desktop 64-bit.exe isn't a very friendly name for the game's .exe.
- Windows defender warned me about the file being potentially malicious. I'm sure it's a false flag but this is the first time this has happened to me, so it might be alarming enough to scare some potential players away, assuming I'm not the only one getting this
- A lot of the time both bots just refuse to move after the match starts. I noticed that this happened more frequently when playing as/against Theseus or Royal Robby.
- Both Earthquake and Manta's flippers seem to be non-functional, aside from draining gas.
- Royal Robby's axe has a nasty habit of just flinging itself into space for no reason when fired, much like the Firestorm flipper glitch in DSL2.1.
- As a minor balance note, I'd love to see Royal Robby have a lower ground clearance so he can actually get under the sides of some buts, like Terrorhurtz IRL. As of right now he's mostly useless against anything with a wedge.

Thank you for the comprehensive feedback!

We will definitely rename the game for Beta and the official launch.  The weird names should help make it clear to players that these are Alpha releases, and shouldn't be confused with what comes later.

Sorry about Windows Defender!  I always get a similar warning on my Mac.  When we get a little closer to the finished version, we will see if we can get the game whitelisted.

I think I might have solved the problem with both robots not moving.  It is intermittent, and was hard to track down as a result.  We'll see if this latest version fixes it.

I solved the problem of flippers not firing.  It turns out it was caused by an incorrect build setting.  This has been fixed.

We will definitely need to tune the axe.  It is way too heavy, and throws Robby when it fires.

Lower ground clearance -- yes!  I just lowered its center of mass, but we will need to adjust the physics model as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 28, 2019, 10:58:08 PM
Enjoying what I've played of the new build so far! Am I right in thinking there's no way to create flippers in the botlab at the moment though, or am I missing
something?

Edit: On another note, it seems that flippers in this build aren't working full stop, whether controlled by player or AI. Tested with Earthquake, Manta and TR3. Pressing the flip button decreases the gas meter, but doesn't do anything.

I published without noticing that the exported file was using the wrong version of Unity.  This broke the music and the flippers and axes. Oops.  :ouch:  I just pushed a corrected version.

As of right now, there isn't a good way to do flippers or axes in the BotLab.  We are working on it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on March 28, 2019, 11:12:04 PM
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Plerco on March 28, 2019, 11:12:45 PM
I'm enjoying this version so far, the only problem being that the bot lab is super laggy for me, which might just be my computer.

Feedback-
Royal Robby is super glitchy, and randomly flies into space sometimes after firing the axe. Also, it seems to have way too much ground clearance, and no beta-style tail to keep it from flopping, even when dealing a not glitchy hit.
Bubblegum feels broken, since it seems like its impossible to destabilize it, and it still does RA2 damage by just grinding away and doing nothing while the opponent dies trying to kill it
Theseus' AI has absolutely no clue what to do when its flipped over and just drives around aimlessly
Sometimes robots will just sit there and do nothing after outwedging each other
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 06:52:02 AM
Thanks for responding to my feedback, the build is working a lot better now.

A few more things I've noticed:
- Human controller flipper bots seem to have their weapons still controlled by AI, as in they fire without user input
- Inverted bots only fire their weapon when the countdown starts. It would be nice for the AI to behave more like they do in RA2, where there is a toggleable 'invertible' setting, where if false the bot fires it's weapon until it is uninverted.
- Royal Robby doesn't seem to have a weapon firing sound effect
- When you're trapped under the flipper of an AI, they seem to spam fire their weapon fruitlessly until they run out of CO2 (screenshot of the positioning I'm talking about is attached). Maybe add a short cooldown for the AI firing their weapon, and only let them fire again once their weapon has fully/mostly retracted? Just a thought.
- I think you've been a bit stingy with the CO2 allowance for each bot, but that's personal preference. Maybe instead of a hard limit, the flip power (and CO2 useage) decreases non-linearly, so later flips are weaker but use less CO2 (due to the pressure having decreased as a result of running low).

Hope that helps 👍

It definitely helps!

- I noticed the automatic triggering of smart zones for player-controlled robots last night too.  Yesterday I did a complete rewrite of the control system, and this was a bug that has just popped up.  Smart zones should only do something when under AI control.  As we transition over to miniscript, this problem should go away entirely for robots you build in the workshop.  Once miniscript is working correctly, Smart Zones won't trigger anything.  They will simply send an "iAmTriggered" (or something like that) statement to miniscript, and it will be up to the user to decide what to do with that information.

-We are still working on music and sounds for everything.  It is a long process. :)

-The flippers and Royal Robby are using the same default code for triggering their weapons.  I will see what I can do to fix it this morning.

-The CO2 allowance is using an accurate physical model based on the size of the the tank, the buffer tank, the internal volume of the piping, and the stroke volume of the piston.  I assumed no friction, no gas losses (unless there is a leak), no gas flow from the storage tank during the stroke, and that the CO2 behaves as an ideal gas once it is inside the buffer volume.  The piston force even drops dynamically during the stroke when the volume grows and the gas expands adiabatically. 

With all that said, I agree.  I don't like it.  Realistic does not feel good.  Its the reason I haven't built a flipper in real life with my students.  Gas-powered things are great when they work, but they stop working for a million reasons and it is hugely frustrating.

I think I prefer the less-realistic model that you described.  Besides that it would be WAY simpler to code. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 07:05:32 AM
I'm enjoying this version so far, the only problem being that the bot lab is super laggy for me, which might just be my computer.

Feedback-
Royal Robby is super glitchy, and randomly flies into space sometimes after firing the axe. Also, it seems to have way too much ground clearance, and no beta-style tail to keep it from flopping, even when dealing a not glitchy hit.
Bubblegum feels broken, since it seems like its impossible to destabilize it, and it still does RA2 damage by just grinding away and doing nothing while the opponent dies trying to kill it
Theseus' AI has absolutely no clue what to do when its flipped over and just drives around aimlessly
Sometimes robots will just sit there and do nothing after outwedging each other

Shoot!  The robot workshop shouldn't be laggy.  In which screens do you notice it the most?  Is it when the robots are loading?

We definitely need to fix Royal Robby.  I think the fundamental problem is that the momenta involved are too high for the physics engine to handle.  Good call about that tail!  Royal Robby is @anarchy_fox's original design, so adding it wouldn't be a problem at all.

Bubblegum is ridiculous.  It is fun until you realize that with the way things are right now, it is completely unstoppable.  It shouldn't be too hard to dial things way back.

Poor Theseus.  I think an AI tweak is in order, a lowered center of mass to reduce tipping, and maybe some magnets to help hold the robot to the floor.

Over the next few weeks I will try to nail down the AI issues above, as well as start the process of transitioning over to miniscript control for the AI.  Once AI is exposed via miniscript, it will be available to everyone here for modification.  I can't wait to see what people come up with and share with the community.

Maybe one more public Alpha release with user-editable miniscript AI?  Is this something that you might want to sink your teeth in the next two months?  Let me know!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Plerco on March 29, 2019, 09:21:45 AM
For me it’s mostly laggy when trying to place components, and it’s strange, since actually  fighting doesn’t lag for me
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SagarisRA2 on March 29, 2019, 10:38:00 AM
This is probably just my laptop being poor but christ the lag in the gameplay is strong, even though the graphics default setting is low. And yeah I tried to make a flipper only to not find a burst for flippers, but the graphics and physics are clean as hell.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Mystic2000 on March 29, 2019, 12:18:37 PM
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on March 29, 2019, 12:52:31 PM
gameplay seems pretty nice and i like what you got for the botlab so far (especially those scaleable shapes)

it seems D.B 2's flail tends to go a bit crazy during fights sometimes

i have 2 questions:
-what is the Temp stat bar for ? is it something related to pneumatics ?
-is this like RA2 where you need the weapon components to do damage (e.g adding spikes at the end of a bar) or can i just spin a rescaled cube shape as a bar spinner and it will still hurt sh** ?

Unless we can figure out how to make the flail more stable, we will most likely remove it from the game.  It is great for testing purposes though!

We haven’t finalized temperature yet, but right now the way it works is:

1. Each damageable object keeps track of its own hp and temp.  The one that you see displayed in the bar is just the chassis. 
2. If temp rises above a certain level, components shut down.  If it rises way too high, that ovject takes damage.  Right now the only things that would cause that to happen are arena flames and lava.

Anything and everything in the botlab can cause damage to a damageable object.  You can definitely make weapons in the shape editor.  However, we haven’t done any balancing with this yet, so it is highly likely that we  will have certain components that do more damage.  My thought is that you can cut any shape you want out of mild steel in the shape builder.  However, you will need to use the yet-to-be-built RR2 Component Modding Tool to create a hardened steel spinning weapon.  The mild steel weapon will work, but the purpose built one will work better.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 02, 2019, 10:30:51 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 02, 2019, 06:28:38 PM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 08:44:31 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 09:22:01 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 10:22:12 AM
I'm enjoying the new RR2 version. Keep it up.

Glad to hear, and thank you!

Since I know you're in the RR2 building community, I have something to ask- What gave you the idea to make RR2?

Great question!  It originally started a few years ago with our school's robot combat club.  We do one competition a year with 85 pound robots.  Our students typically finish their robots at the last minute, and typically have never driven their robots before we put them into the arena.  Since the winner of a round is often determined by the better driver, I figured we could have a huge advantage if our drivers had practiced before the actual competition.

Thus RR2 was born.

Since then the game has morphed into more than a robot driving simulator, but I still intend to use it on the first day we meet next school year to help students figure out what designs work.  Right now we are working on wiring up multiplayer controls, and I am super excited for the day when we can give each student a controller and have them go 1 on 1 in an arena with controllers that are pretty close to the Spektrum DX6's that we use IRL.

Fun is important, but the core game also needs to be grounded in reality in order to be useful as a trainer.

This is going to be another huge hit on GTM, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 02:35:45 PM
The miniscript code editor screen is coming together!

It is now possible to live-code AI and watch the robot update its AI behavior in realtime.

In theory you could fight an entire battle by typing code!   :bigsmile:

(https://www.robot-rumble.com/miniscript-code-editor-prototype.jpeg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 04, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
You must be some sort of guy with superpowers, ‘cause this game you’re making is mind-blowing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 04, 2019, 09:30:31 PM
You must be some sort of guy with superpowers, ‘cause this game you’re making is mind-blowing.

Thanks for that!

I don't have superpowers.  Our team does.  @tashic is a genius, @Anarchy_Fox is amazing, and @callumbigden makes everything look incredible.  I just direct traffic every now and then.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 05, 2019, 03:09:05 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 05, 2019, 05:26:09 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 05, 2019, 05:47:22 AM
Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on April 06, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
ra2's successor is finally here
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 06, 2019, 04:39:34 PM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 06, 2019, 04:44:10 PM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Apanx would undoubtedly be the first guy you should go to on that front
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 06, 2019, 05:25:17 PM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 06, 2019, 06:07:10 PM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badnik96 on April 06, 2019, 07:36:40 PM
booted up the new demo, some bugs ive found

-manta's flipper and bubblegum in general are rather buggy and like to clip their parts into each other leading to physics weirdness
-bubblegum and crippling depression's weapons spin the wrong direction
-ai robots seem to have a problem navigating around the pit cover? like when they drive over it they seem to be stuck navigating in that one small square until another robot pushes them out
-spinner sound effects do not stop when a match is restarted, leading to the same sfx being overlayed multiple times
-ai flippers cannot self-right
-royal robby's axe retracts too fast for its own good imo
-floor spikes seem to do too much damage
-ive had matches where ballerina's weapon won't spin, for some reason. i think this has something to do with the aforementioned sfx bug
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:09:36 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 07, 2019, 07:13:12 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.

^what he said.^
Oh, and I use a toggle switch for spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:30:05 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:35:56 AM
booted up the new demo, some bugs ive found

-manta's flipper and bubblegum in general are rather buggy and like to clip their parts into each other leading to physics weirdness
-bubblegum and crippling depression's weapons spin the wrong direction
-ai robots seem to have a problem navigating around the pit cover? like when they drive over it they seem to be stuck navigating in that one small square until another robot pushes them out
-spinner sound effects do not stop when a match is restarted, leading to the same sfx being overlayed multiple times
-ai flippers cannot self-right
-royal robby's axe retracts too fast for its own good imo
-floor spikes seem to do too much damage
-ive had matches where ballerina's weapon won't spin, for some reason. i think this has something to do with the aforementioned sfx bug

Thanks for the feedback!  I've posted all of these on Trello.

Out of all of these, AI flipper self-righting is fixed for an internal build, and should be for the next public release.  We should be able to get to most of the rest as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 07, 2019, 07:37:36 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
I can play the game on Internet site right? Because I haven't tried it yet as I assume I have to download for it, and I don't want to download updates a lot every time a new version comes out tbh, considering the stage of the game now. If it's Internet though, I may be able to try on late April, because RL stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:38:02 AM
ra2's successor is finally here

We’re trying!  Hopefully by launch time we are worthy.

Speaking of that, I am looking to put together a team of RA2 AI experts to work on the usability of the RR2 AI system.  My goal is to capture all of the possible inputs a player want to have for their robot’s AI. 

Any recommendations on who I should ask for help?
Apanx would undoubtedly be the first guy you should go to on that front

Thanks for the recommendation!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 07:49:52 AM
ra2's successor is finally here
Just saying, but i may still play RA2 and host tournaments on there after RR2. Like, RR2 is great, but RA2 also feels like a good classic to me, and Idk if my laptop will lag running RR2 or not

I totally respect that.  RA2 is awesome.  It has an incredible community with unheard-of longevity.

I wouldn't give up on the laptop though.  I'm doing all of my game dev on a laptop, and am targeting a 2013 MacBook Air with 8 GB of RAM as the minimum.  Would you mind trying the game on your laptop and letting us know how it goes?
I can play the game on Internet site right? Because I haven't tried it yet as I assume I have to download for it, and I don't want to download updates a lot every time a new version comes out tbh, considering the stage of the game now. If it's Internet though, I may be able to try on late April, because RL stuff

Unfortunately, no.  We don't have a browser version of the RR2.  I originally wanted to do this, as I do most of my work in Construct 2/3, and the original "Robot Rumble" was built for the web.  RR2 is a native-only app for Windows and Mac.

The game works now, but we are making a ton of changes to it.  The AI coding screen is coming along nicely, and I'm hoping to put out another public Alpha before the end of April.

If you want something more stable, be sure to sign up for the closed Beta (this summer??? maybe???).  We should be "feature complete" (a term I use loosely) by then.  Just don't wait too long -- the longer you wait, the less likely we will be able to fix any issues that you find.

To sign up for the closed beta, head over to our website at www.robot-rumble.com.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 07, 2019, 08:34:55 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Ive seen it, dw i have done it, yet to no avail
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 08:37:31 AM
good progress, i cant drive my bots tho

Uh oh.  That's not right.  Are you using the latest Alpha version 2.01?  What exactly is going wrong?
I wire them up, but they dont move in test area or battles

Hey, Kix. I can send you a download of the latest version, if you want it...
i mean its pretty much the same as the one i downloaded

I'm not sure if you saw this on the other thread, but maybe this will help?  Double posting the instructions here.  Please let me know if this doesn't work for you, and we will do some more advanced troubleshooting.

@tashic is working on motor wiring now.  It is complicated, and taking a while to sort through.

Stuff that should work right now:

1. Attach a couple of AmpFlow motors, one or the left wheel and one for the right wheel.
2. Attach wheels to the motor attachment points.  You will probably need to rotate the view to get the wheels to snap to the axles.
3. Go over a few screens to the "Controls" tab.  Select the motor on the left side of the screen, and click "Left Drive Motor".  Select the motor on the right side of the screen and click "Right Drive Motor".  The game assumes that the forward direction for the robot is forward the rusty green lathe in the back of the room.
4. Click on the game controller icon at the top of the screen to test the controls.
5. Use WASD to drive.
Ive seen it, dw i have done it, yet to no avail

Drat.  I was hoping it was as simple as the above.  At what point in these instructions did the failure occur?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 08:43:06 AM
(http://www.robot-rumble.com/motorassignment.png)

Here's a screenshot showing the assignment of a left motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 07, 2019, 08:47:40 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 07, 2019, 09:34:21 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon

The first thing that comes to mind is that maybe the wheels aren’t attached to the axle correctly.  Is it possible that they are affixed to the body of the motor instead?  Maybe try mounting a motor vertically, then attaching a bar spinner to the axle, then calling the motor a drive motor?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/assigningabarspinner.gif)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 08:38:24 AM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 08, 2019, 08:42:43 AM
Im the test bot area (after i press the controller icon

The first thing that comes to mind is that maybe the wheels aren’t attached to the axle correctly.  Is it possible that they are affixed to the body of the motor instead?  Maybe try mounting a motor vertically, then attaching a bar spinner to the axle, then calling the motor a drive motor?

(http://www.robot-rumble.com/assigningabarspinner.gif)
I did the same thing for my bot IronTail. Works great.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Pwnator on April 08, 2019, 10:24:59 AM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 10:58:17 AM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).

Nice catch on currently available win conditions.  I hadn't thought of that.  To be honest, we have been putting off thinking about arenas until the beta.

The whole picture doesn't exist yet.  Right now the default AI miniscript simply drives toward the nearest enemy and presses button1 when close.  All we need at the moment are the inputs to the system.  A decision making process will come once the inputs are fairly stable. 

Of course we can always add more inputs as necessary, but I was hoping to capture as many as possible as a starting point before we start writing default code.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 12:03:39 PM
The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

There should probably be a separate item between 5 & 6 that checks for the currently attainable win condition (so as to not waste processing power on edge location on closed arenas and whatnot).

But to be honest, while a list is nice and all, it's kinda hard to see the whole picture without those fitting in multiple flowcharts (immobility checker should run concurrently with the other combat functions, for example).

Here's what I have so far.

Possible win conditions:
1. Last robot standing (KO)
2. Most points when time runs out
3. Out of the arena (tabletop)
4. King of the Hill (points scored per second spent in target area)

I imagine that #1 and #2 would always be active.  #3 and #4 would only be true for certain arenas.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 08, 2019, 01:24:23 PM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?
Maybe, for robots with CO2, how much they have left? So if they start running out, maybe they prioritise self-righting over mindlessly swinging at anything in the vicinity, and when they run out, they know to stop firing the weapon. Robots in RA2 will keep firing their pistons long after their CO2 has run out.

Also maybe a list of arena hazards (for avoidance and/or shoving opponents towards them)? Or does that come under "edges"?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
This one goes out to all of the AI programmers in the crowd.  I need your help!  Please let me know if I am missing anything!

The following is a list of all of the inputs I think an AI would need to make decisions on which tactic to choose:

1. position and rotation of self (in 3D world space)
2. position and rotation of nearest enemy (in 3D world space)
3. position of nearest waypoint from navmesh (in 3D world space)
[Example: Distance to nearest enemy is computed using #1 and #2.]
4. list of our own motors
5. list of our own smart zones
[Example: If all of our weapon motors are gone, then switch to shoving.]
6. location of nearest edge
[Used for pushing battles.]
7. location of scoring zone
[Used for "king of the hill" arenas.]
8. time of my last good hit on enemy
[To decide if my attacks are working.]
9. self immobile time
10. self isImmobile
11. nearest enemy immobile time

If we do this right, everything that an AI needs could be derived from the above inputs. 

Am I missing anything?
Maybe, for robots with CO2, how much they have left? So if they start running out, maybe they prioritise self-righting over mindlessly swinging at anything in the vicinity, and when they run out, they know to stop firing the weapon. Robots in RA2 will keep firing their pistons long after their CO2 has run out.

Also maybe a list of arena hazards (for avoidance and/or shoving opponents towards them)? Or does that come under "edges"?

Good call about prioritizing CO2 for self-righting.  The game is pretty mindless about this right now, and flippers get themselves into trouble.

I was also thinking we might do something similar with heat and battery.  They aren't an issue right now, but heat and battery management are definitely something I have thought about including.

Getting "edges" from Unity's NavMesh system is really easy to do right now -- just a single API call.  It probably does make sense to categorize them somehow.  In the Test Arena, being shoved up against the railing is annoying, but not game ending.  However, being shoved into the pit means game over.

I'm thinking something like having a "pit" trigger volume:
1. Have the NavMesh system report the location of the nearest edge.
2. Place an invisible test sphere in that location.  If the test sphere overlaps with a "pit" trigger, then prioritize staying away from it at all costs.  If not, then don't worry about avoiding it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Pwnator on April 08, 2019, 02:29:51 PM
I think the best starting point is to determine:

1. The processes that are active throughout the whole match (immobility check, enemy tracking/mobility check, win condition evaluation, obstacle evaluation that modifies the shortest path between the bots).
2. A default engagement tactic that is active only while mobile, armed, & powered.
3. The processes that are triggered by mid-match conditions (new engagement tactic when new win condition is determined, such as keeping distance when enemy is stuck, shoving when disarmed, evading when crippled/stuck/low on power, etc.).


Then from those processes you can derive the necessary data to build your functions upon:
  - Positioning and mobility status for the processes in #1
  - Battery, air, drive, weapon, & armor statuses for the processes in #2
  - Control signals that are triggered from the processes in #2 maybe a bit from #1


My engineering background is in microelectronics so I might be over-complicating things. Someone who has a strong background in control systems, feel free to correct me.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 08, 2019, 02:47:43 PM
I think the best starting point is to determine:

1. The processes that are active throughout the whole match (immobility check, enemy tracking/mobility check, win condition evaluation, obstacle evaluation that modifies the shortest path between the bots).
2. A default engagement tactic that is active only while mobile, armed, & powered.
3. The processes that are triggered by mid-match conditions (new engagement tactic when new win condition is determined, such as keeping distance when enemy is stuck, shoving when disarmed, evading when crippled/stuck/low on power, etc.).


Then from those processes you can derive the necessary data to build your functions upon:
  - Positioning and mobility status for the processes in #1
  - Battery, air, drive, weapon, & armor statuses for the processes in #2
  - Control signals that are triggered from the processes in #2 maybe a bit from #1


My engineering background is in microelectronics so I might be over-complicating things. Someone who has a strong background in control systems, feel free to correct me.  :smile:

Not a bad approach.  The outputs are all set now (4 analog axes + 4 digital buttons), and I'm getting close to done with the list of inputs (see above).

Once outputs and inputs are set, it will be a matter of building an AI system using the given set of inputs and outputs.  That's the hard work, but it is also something that can be done over a matter of months or years because all of the code will be written in miniscript, and under the direct control of the individual player.

I fully expect that the logic will evolve over time as players come up with new ways to tackle AI.  Maybe one player will entirely ditch the existing state machine and come up with a behavior tree or utility based system that completely dominates.

All of the AI code will live in the .RR2Bot file, so when you share your robot, you are sharing all of its AI code as well.  You will be able to copy-paste code to and from www.gametechmods.com.  I can't wait to see what people post here on the forums. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 09, 2019, 02:19:54 PM
Thank you to everyone for providing feedback on AI.  Based on your feedback, I am rewriting all of the AI inputs from scratch, this time cribbing off of the RA2 python files.  I’m going to try to make a 1:1 match so that it should be relatively easy to transfer over the existing RA2 AI to the new game.

Please note that miniscript is an entirely different language than the python used in RA2, but it should be close enough.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2019, 05:41:15 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on April 09, 2019, 05:53:34 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 09, 2019, 06:01:01 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
I disagree. Again, I think Parsec is just a bandaid, and not a particularly useful one looking at its lack of adoption for RA2, which would seemingly be the ideal scenario for the service. It has several issues, such as it being inherently unfair (the host has a sizeable latency advantage), being a pain in the ass both to set up the service and to set up bots and controls and relying on very solid network speeds. These issues combine to result in it barely being used in GTM as of late.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 09, 2019, 09:31:40 PM
I think it's important to understand why AI is important in RA2. It acts as a way to fairly battle bots in lieu of multiplayer. It's a bandage on the problem of the game's netcode being so bad as to be unfit for purpose. As player vs AI fights are unfair, the only way to have a fair fight in RA2 between 2 player created bots is to have an AI battle between both. The problem with this is that it leaves out a large component of what makes real battles interesting, which is the battle of driver vs driver as well as bot vs bot.

What I'm hinting at is that it might be worth looking into multiplayer over an AI scripting language. I don't want to come off as though I think I'm entitled to decide what you should/shouldn't prioritize in the game, but I think chasing this AI system might not be wise, looking through the lens of a player. RA2 already does this well, what we're missing as a community is multiplayer. Unfortunately I'd assume that multiplayer would be a lot more complex on the developer side than an AI system.
Honestly, I think that maybe Parsec can work rather than an in built multi-player system
I disagree. Again, I think Parsec is just a bandaid, and not a particularly useful one looking at its lack of adoption for RA2, which would seemingly be the ideal scenario for the service. It has several issues, such as it being inherently unfair (the host has a sizeable latency advantage), being a pain in the ass both to set up the service and to set up bots and controls and relying on very solid network speeds. These issues combine to result in it barely being used in GTM as of late.

Badger, I really appreciate your honesty and your insight.  I know that players have wanted a good online multiplayer experience for a long time.  I think you have accurately summarized the years of frustration that many people have felt with RA2.  I hope that the following helps address some of these concerns:

First off, don't forget about local multiplayer!  A good, solid local multiplayer experience is one of our core requirements.  Heck, the game was originally conceived as a way for my students to prototype their designs and learn to drive robots against each other before we got to an actual arena.  Player vs player with game controllers is really fun.

I would love to create a great online multiplayer experience as well, but there are a number of technical and financial reasons why we have not pursued this:

1.  Because of the 400 Hz physics tick rate, doing non-buggy online multiplayer is extremely difficult without writing a deterministic physics engine.  I'm pretty good with physics, but this is well beyond what I am willing to attempt for the game. 
2.  RA2 and RA3 both attempted to do online multiplayer.  They had to scale back their physics tick rate quite a bit to make it work.  The result in both cases was a game that didn't have the physics fidelity that people wanted, and didn't have enough players to warrant investing heavily into making the experience better.  There are plenty of nonrealistic multiplayer robot fighting games out there already.  We wanted to build a realistic one, which meant sacrificing online multiplayer.

I am really excited about the new AI system, though I totally get it why I might be the only one -- You guys haven't seen it yet. ;)  We are bringing programming out from the modding shadows into the game itself.  Live coding a running robot is really frickin' cool:
1. You type some code.
2. The robot instantly responds.  It is that simple.

Just because you can use the old RA2 AI logic doesn't mean you have to.  That logic will be there as a starting point, but I expect that people will rewrite the AI to be more effective in battle.  Every player writes their own code, or they can modify something they found in a forum.  I fully expect that given the appropriate inputs and enough time, people will be able to write AI that will absolutely demolish a human player.  Remember that the computer runs at 60 Hz.  The fastest humans alive can sustain control signals only at about 5 Hz.

The bottom line is that I view RR2 as a member of a new genre of game.  It is building game AND a coding game.  You get to build and code your own version of The Terminator.

The community here proved the concept by modding RA2.  RR2 builds upon that and makes robot combat AI coding much more accessible.  I'm excited for it, and I hope that you guys are too. 

As for online multiplayer, let's get the game out and see how it goes this year.  It is quite possible that with Google Stadia, GeForce Now, and Blade Shadow all in the mix, we might well be revisiting this conversation again in 2020.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 11, 2019, 03:01:19 PM
Hi guys, quite enjoying myself so far, I must say.

Couple of questions about future plans.

- Belted motors, are they happening?
-Circular custom weapons?
-Wiring UI and process being more streamlined? (Which tbh Idk why I'm asking this, you already answered this).
-How soon can we expect creations vs AI fights?

Overall tho, cracking stuff, I've been messing around in the multilayered chassis creation section for hours alone!

Cheers, I'll be posting some creations in the other thread once I get stuff ready <3
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 11, 2019, 05:19:24 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: SagarisRA2 on April 11, 2019, 05:31:37 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Dayum even on this Sabare seems to outwedge an opponent with ease. Speed Demon looks nice too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Team Code Red Robotics on April 11, 2019, 05:56:34 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Dayum even on this Sabare seems to outwedge an opponent with ease. Speed Demon looks nice too.
My question is: Has he AId it to do the Bocuma spin?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 11, 2019, 06:37:37 PM
Been messing around in RR2 trying to learn the ropes of the botlab and everything, and have been having some fun trying to recreate my RA2 bots.

I did Speed Demon, and a rudimentary version of Sabre first, and put them up against each other in an AI vs AI fight (pretty cool that the AI just automatically knew how to drive them with 0 messing around too )

https://youtu.be/36hZhgJKRD8

Then this fight got me wondering if there was any way to make some kind of flipper with what's currently in the game (no pneumatics etc), so I got talking to Hoppin, and dabbling around with spin motors, and I managed to get something to work. It's super weak (kinda series 3 Firestorm levels of power) but it's enough to overturn other bots, and it should work for self righting too (though in this clip Earthquake sitting on top of me prevented that). It won't work with AI, but for player driven bots having a way to make even a super weak flipper is pretty neat I thought.

https://youtu.be/zg-ExHPmKog

Cracking stuff my guy


Hiya, after playing for what had been a great night, I've got some feedback.

Is there a way to wire srimechs, this would be greatly appreciated haha! I've just been dragging around a floppy piece of metal for when I fight lmao, on top of this, the ability to choose our button inputs would be a great feature. A small ui tweak I'd recommend is moving the "eliminated" and "win" text to the top of the screen, it gets in the way of match and seeing the action.

I'd also suggest adding a way to rotate robots forward direction, unless this is already in, then how? :really_makes_you_think:.

An option to adjust the volume of the announcer guy, he's proper loud for my liking.

When zooming in to focus on building, it gets blurry

Been noticing some ai issues, general ai stopping, not srimeching, etc. Specifically for me; Earthquake, TR2, Ballerina & Manta.

Been really enjoying it as my recent posts tell, thanks guys

Lots of Love, Hoppin
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
Robo made a great breaktrough
tried few stuff
2 motor flipper is not bad ngl, more of a lifter but still
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gE9FaNnmJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gE9FaNnmJg)
Tried adding counterweights to the rear, but no luck, flipper would not close.
Grabbers wont work, becasue the motor actually retracts for some reason
Also axes work...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 11:25:44 AM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 12, 2019, 01:25:01 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 01:49:38 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?

Yeah it is parsec. Generally, everything is fine, maybe add a timer?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 12, 2019, 01:50:31 PM
Oh yeah... Double post, but uhh...
https://youtu.be/Ca50953QPbE

WELL DONE!!!!

So awesome!

I had no idea this was even a thing!

I take it that this is Parsec?  Is there something I can do to make it work better?

Other than continuing development on the game, nothing much. A lot of the issues are either going to be ironed out, or on parsec ends

Possibly a match timer would be great to help keep track of stuff.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 12, 2019, 04:39:15 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 090901 on April 12, 2019, 04:44:05 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8

storm 2 is the rightful winner of robot wars series 7
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 12, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Well not even a full day and we got a new type of flipper:
https://youtu.be/SCOLfRFrhg8

Wowsers!  That is effective!  Nice work.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 13, 2019, 03:08:52 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 03:55:23 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 08:07:33 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

As far as the robot feeling too light, I’m planning to go back and look at physics again once everything is working in the botlab.  The goal is to be able to support all of the real-life weight classes, from antweight to super heavyweight.  It is going to take some serious tuning to get it right.

The single player game needs to feel like you are fighting in real-life tournaments: Bugglebots, Motorama, Sparkfun AVC, etc.  There is a lot of physics “feel” work that needs to be done over the summer to meet this goal.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 09:22:41 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 13, 2019, 09:53:46 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 10:06:04 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 11:08:33 AM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 13, 2019, 01:58:19 PM
Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.
Trued with a controller. Honestly not my style, but it will be useful for irl bot builders
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 13, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.

The bot lab looks great so far, don't get me wrong, I just wish I had a better computer than my sh**ty six-year-old laptop so I could use it without immense lag.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 13, 2019, 02:54:20 PM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.

I have no idea what the braking does here to be honest.
As for controller, I could try getting my PS3 controller to work on PC.

Right now with the simple bit I made it's not just that it'll start to turn to a side when driving forward and backward, but sometimes it'll also start to just spin in place.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 13, 2019, 04:41:57 PM
I've downloaded the alpha now and toyed around a little bit. Looks like good fun with quite some building options and freedom. First bot I made might be a bit too light or something? I dunno. Sometimes when just driving forward it decides to turn on its own.

I do wonder... Why when I choose to make a new bot was there some axe bot being spawned in the area, that could even be controlled there?
Yeah there is Royal Bobby (axebot)

Also turn on motor braking for drive, its a godsend

Also, what do you guys think of doing electronic stability control to help drive in a straight line for keyboard control?  It isn’t hard to implement, but is it too much?

We'd probably have to give that a test, it certainly sounds interesting. Personally I'm ok with driving as is atm, even without motor braking.
I agree, playtesting will be the best option, although i am a bit sceptical

Sounds good.  I’ll hold off on it unless we need it.  Also, be sure to try game controllers if have them.

I have no idea what the braking does here to be honest.
As for controller, I could try getting my PS3 controller to work on PC.

Right now with the simple bit I made it's not just that it'll start to turn to a side when driving forward and backward, but sometimes it'll also start to just spin in place.

That’s a really good description.  I’m pretty sure of the root cause and have several potential solutions.

The root cause of the problem is that as the wheels on one side come off the ground, a net torque is applied to turn the robot.  In a typical car driving game, we would model a compliant suspension system to eliminate this.  In RR2, there is no suspension travel, but we have a couple of different solutions:

1. Increase the sideways distance between the wheels.  This will increase the gravitational restoring torque and help keep both wheels planted.
2. Lower the center of mass. Ideally, the COM would be slightly below the ground plane, such that the robot always tries to right itself.  This is physically impossible.  In practice, try to put as much mass as low down as possible.
3. In code, create an electronic stability control system.  I tried this out during the game prototyping phase, and it worked really well to eliminate the problem when you are using a keyboard.  It works by cutting power to the drive wheel, and/or applying steering signal in the opposite direction to keep the robot driving straight.  It is a perfect solution, but it is limited by the location of the COM of the robot.  If you can solve the problem by getting the COM lower, that will give better handling overall.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 14, 2019, 12:08:35 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 14, 2019, 02:51:11 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.

Phew! What resolution brought things into an acceptable fps for you?  My Macbook Pro runs okay at 1/2 the max resolution.  My Macbook Air is only 1366x768, so it does fine at that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 14, 2019, 04:25:37 PM
Is it just me, or does the settings menu not actually work? I tried turning down the graphics settings, to try and make the bot lab run faster than 5FPS, and it didn't do anything. I closed the game and re-opened and it was back to the default settings.
Okay, so the settings menu works if you access it from the pause menu during/after a fight, but it doesn't work if you access it from the main menu. Dialling down the graphics worked for me and I can play the game properly now.

Phew! What resolution brought things into an acceptable fps for you?  My Macbook Pro runs okay at 1/2 the max resolution.  My Macbook Air is only 1366x768, so it does fine at that.
I'm using 1280x800 in windowed mode, but I don't think that's the resolution it's actually displaying at. My laptop screen is 1600x900 and the game window is definitely not 800 pixels tall. But whatever. It runs, and that's the important thing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 15, 2019, 10:00:35 AM
I went back through all of the old RA2 AI python scripts, and put together a list of AI inputs that I think will allow us to implement all of the AI scripts.

If you are AI nerdy, please let me know if there is something that you might like to have as an input that isn't listed below.

The next step is to write all of the functions in miniscript (i.e. getMyPosition(), getDistanceToEdge(), etc.) that robots will need to create an AI system.

/// INPUTS RECEIVED FROM ROBOT'S SENSORS
// timer.timeRemaining - This is how many seconds are remaining in the match.
// timer.isRunning - 1 if the timer is running.  0 if the timer is stopped.
//
// robots[] - A list of all of the robots in the match.  robot[0] is the first robot.
//
// robots[0].tag - The player tag of robot #0.  Tags are "P1", "P2", "P3", "P4", "P5", "P6", "P7", or "P8".
// robots[0].team - The team of robot #0.  Team names are used in team matches.  (not implemented yet)
// robots[0].isHuman - 1 if the robot is under human control, 0 if AI controlled.
// robots[0].isDisabled - 1 if the robot has been knocked out.  0 if it is still in the match.
// robots[0].immobileTimeRemaining - Measured in seconds.
// robots]0].isImmobile - 1 if robot[0]'s immobile timer has been started.  0 if the immobile timer has been reset.
// robots[0].position.x - The position of robot[0] along the x (horizontal) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].position.y - The position of robot[0] along the y (up-down) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].position.z - The position of robot[0] along the z (horizontal) axis in meters, measured from the origin.
// robots[0].rotation.x - The position of robot[0] around the x (horizontal) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].rotation.y - The position of robot[0] around the y (vertical) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].rotation.z - The position of robot[0] around the x (horizontal) axis in degrees.
// robots[0].score.damage - robot[0]'s damage score
// robots[0].score.control - robot[0]'s control score
// robots[0].score.aggression - robot[0]'s aggression score
// robots[0].score.kingOfTheHill - robot[0]'s kingOfTheHill score. (No arenas use this yet.)
// robots[0].score.other - robot[0]'s score for the category called "other". (No arenas use this yet.)
// robots[0].health - robot[0]'s current chassis health
// robots[0].maxHealth - robot[0]'s maximum chassis health
// robots[0].heat - robot[0]'s current chassis heat
// robots[0].maxHeat - robot[0]'s maximum chassis heat
// robots[0].battery - robot[0]'s current battery status
// robots[0].maxBattery - robot[0]'s maximum battery status
// robots[0].gas - robot[0]'s current gas status
// robots[0].maxGas - robot[0]'s maximum gas status
//
// components[] - A list of all of the components on this robot. components[0] is the first component.
//
// components[0].type - components[0]'s type
// components[0].name - components[0]'s name
// components[0].health - components[0]'s health
//
// hazards[] - A list of all of the hazards in this arena. hazards[0] is the first hazard.
//
// hazards[0].name - The name assigned to hazards[0].
// hazards[0].threatLevel - The threat level of hazards[0].  This ranges from 0 (no threat) to 100 (one hit = dead).
// hazards[0].closestPoint.x - The x coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
// hazards[0].closestPoint.y - The y coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
// hazards[0].closestPoint.z - The z coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the hazard to our robot.
//
// scoringAreas[] - A list of all of the scoring areas in this arena. scoringAreas[0] is the first scoring area.
//
// scoringAreas[0].name - The name assigned to scoringAreas[0].
// scoringAreas[0].value - The value of scoringAreas[0].  This ranges from 0 (none) to 100 (instant win).
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.x - The x coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.y - The y coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].closestPoint.z - The z coordinate of the closest point on the edge of the scoringArea to our robot.
// scoringAreas[0].center.x - The x coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
// scoringAreas[0].center.y - The y coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
// scoringAreas[0].center.z - The z coordinate of the center of the scoring area.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 21, 2019, 02:48:23 PM
I guess this had to be done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClIvmvvzbs
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 21, 2019, 04:00:27 PM
I guess this had to be done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gClIvmvvzbs

Well done guys!  Just started on the video now.

What went well?

What was terrible?

I should have a good chunk of time to work on things this week...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 21, 2019, 04:49:45 PM
What went well?

What was terrible?
I wouldn't say anything was terrible, but...


There's probably more but it's 11pm and that's all my tired brain can think of.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Plerco on April 21, 2019, 06:04:48 PM
I love this game so far, I finally made my dream robot real

Issues I’d say would be that components need to be able to be destroyed, the walls do too much damage, and wiring your robots is kind of wack

Overall, I’d say this is off to a great start, and it’s cool to be participating in the start of a clean, fresh slate meta
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 22, 2019, 05:43:17 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 07:08:37 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 22, 2019, 07:16:26 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on April 22, 2019, 08:35:58 AM
Hey! Absolutely loving the game as it is so far!

Just a few ideas and stuff I've had on how to make it absolute perfection (Apologies if I'm just spouting stuff that's already been advised/in progress!)
-In the bot builder, in addition to having the 'Snap' setting, I think it could also do with a user-variable for 'grid' size and rotation amount (To allow precise rotation of objects to be exactly 90degs, 45degs, 33.3degs, ect.)
-Some sort of 'Mirror' function... Maybe with the critical components (motors mainly) but especially with extras. Kind of like how in the old Bamzooki Creator you could place an object/limb onto the body and it would be automatically mirrored on the other side to make for easier, quicker building. Would also be especially helpful with the blueprint editor and future decal painter.
-With the blueprint editor, having the option to import vectors in the shape of a circle, triangle, and even the option to create curves would be very useful.
-The blueprint editor would also be a lot more effective with the ability to scale the vertices much like how you can scale them once they're rendered into 3d. I know it's possible to just move the vertices around but scaling would be beneficial with complex shapes and if the circles, triangles ect. got offered, would allow users to create shapes similar to that of, for example - Typhoon or Megabyte's shells. Also, smaller dots to represent the vertices for precision.

That's about all I can think of at the moment...
Hope this helps in some way! Please do keep up the amazing work as it is phenomenal!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: KidDelta on April 22, 2019, 09:00:10 AM
This game is great and has some nice potential! but:


- I would  like to see a first person camera position. Nothing really major, but playing with the other camera positions just doesn't feel ideal to me, but then again, that's just me

-Flippers glitch a lot in the sumo arena

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 22, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 11:05:33 AM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
I believe "more powerful weapon motors" is already on the to-do list, along with a lot of balancing tweaks to improve the physics etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Redalert on April 22, 2019, 01:05:31 PM
Funny, because flippers don't glitch in my game...
Could you make the weapons spin faster, please?
I believe "more powerful weapon motors" is already on the to-do list, along with a lot of balancing tweaks to improve the physics etc.

True.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: powerrave on April 22, 2019, 02:37:10 PM
In the little time I've been in this I found the lack of component descriptions to be a thing. Dunno of this is already planned to be done or if it's actually in there and I'm blind, but yeah.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 22, 2019, 02:48:33 PM
In the little time I've been in this I found the lack of component descriptions to be a thing. Dunno of this is already planned to be done or if it's actually in there and I'm blind, but yeah.
IIRC, you can right-click on a component in the list and it'll give you a little pop-up with the description.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 22, 2019, 03:01:38 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.



Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.

The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.

One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.

Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.

A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on April 22, 2019, 03:16:57 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.



Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.

The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.

One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.

Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.

A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Just to elaborate on my issue with the pit raising up. With the way the arena is at the moment, pretty much the only way bots that aren't spinners can win fights is to either pit their opponent, or get lucky and strand them on the wall. I don't think the pit raising up would be as much of an issue if there was alternative methods for non-spinners to KO their opponent (such as OOTA zones which Hop mentioned). Additionally, the fact that the walls do so much damage currently means that you can actually lose a not insignificant amount of HP from hitting the pit release, and having to do it multiple times per match can be quite draining on your health.

As Hop mentioned though, my overall impressions of the game have been almost overwhelmingly positive, so apologies if it seems like I've been dwelling on the negatives. The botlab and the wedge physics as they are right now have me particularly smitten, and I greatly look forward to how this game develops  :thumbup
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 06:19:25 AM
What went well?
  • While the physics still need tweaking, you're off to a good start - already we're getting the kinds of big spinner hits that you don't normally see in RA2.
  • I find it amazing how, even with the limited parts we have currently, we're already seeing such a great diversity of bot types, and they're effective. Bull and Bocuma are great flippers, and RT 2.0 actually pulled off a perfect grab-and-lift on at least one occasion, something you just can't do in RA2.
  • While there were the occasional havoks, and at least one crash, the game seems a lot more stable than DSL. Even Obama Gaming's flails didn't cause any problems.

What was terrible?
I wouldn't say anything was terrible, but...

  • Component destructibility (or at least, loss of health when components are hit) needs to be a thing. It's trivial to surround your chassis with armour (or in Drone's case, weaponry) and make yourself invincible.
  • Tone down the damage taken from hitting the wall in the Test Arena. Right now it's more damaging than 99% of weapons.
  • Additionally, certain bots (Bocuma, Fait Accompli) seem to have an issue where they take damage from the wall even if they hit it with a component wedge instead of their chassis. Would be nice if that could get looked at.

There's probably more but it's 11pm and that's all my tired brain can think of.

1. I can't believe Obama Gaming actually (sort of) worked!  I have a strategy that I might try to rework the flail physics to prevent the flail from being so stretchy.  I have no idea if it will work.  Its also pretty low on the priority list.  Fixing spinners is a lot more important to me -- we need to get spinners right.

2. Component destructibility is a huge issue, and quite a challenge with the optimizations we made to make things performant.  If you guys are interested, I can post more details about how things were built and why this is a challenge, but for now know that we aren't going to release the game until we can figure out an acceptable solution.

3. There are multiple types of damage happening.  Any time a component accelerates above a certain threshold value it takes "acceleration" damage.  In this way, a chassis can take damage even when it is completely surrounded in armor. 

One problem is that the threshold is set too low (10 g's, I think currently).  I don't have any data on this, but I suspect most electronics IRL don't really have a problem until you get up around 50-100 g's, maybe more.  As a result, both wall collisions and spinners cause the chassis to shake itself too violently and cause self-damage. 

The problem is particularly bad when you have a rigidbody chain as follows: wall <-> spinner or wedge <-> chassis.  The resulting impulse gets to be huge as PhysX tries to resolve the collision.  We are using PhysX as the physics engine for the game, but the explosions we call "Havoks" result from these sorts of interactions between multiple physics rigidbodies all lined up.

Maybe the solution is to get rid of acceleration damage entirely.  I dunno.  I like the idea that impacts can shake an entire robot to pieces, but maybe it isn't worth it because there isn't a way to limit the forces involved when rigidbodies are aligned in such a way as to cause an "explosion".
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 10:01:39 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?

The basic logic for a judging system is in place, though it isn't hooked up to arena yet.  Here's what I have so far:

1. Damage points: 1 point of damage = 1 point scored
2. Control points: points scored for every tick in which you are driving in a direction and your opponent's velocity matches your velocity
3. Aggression points: points scored for every tick in which you are driving toward your opponent
4. "King of the Hill" points: points for every tick you maintain control over a certain location in an arena

The 180-second game timer code is already in place, but again, no UI exists yet.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 10:51:30 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?
Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events

Interesting.  I didn't think about doing "Cease!" instead of directly declaring a winner for an externally judged event.  Maybe an options menu that caters to either internally refereed (single player) or externally refereed (Parsec tournament) play?

Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on April 23, 2019, 11:07:21 AM
Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?

It depends on how it can all be coded. I suppose if the AI was to 'judge' matches, 'Damage' could be determined by overall negative component HP caused on another robot, 'control' to be judged by stating areas in the arenas that would be ideally avoidable (such as hazards) and how often a robot drove over/near one of them, and 'aggression' to be judged by time/rate that a robot is near another or making contact. Since there are 3 criteria, the robot who scores most in 2 or all 3 criteria wins the fight. Just an idea though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on April 23, 2019, 11:09:07 AM
I cant really add what people have said, except one thing.
A timer, even a simple 180 second timer
This might require some sort of judging system to determine who wins if multiple robots are still running. "Who has the most health" isn't reliable, what with the walls causing damage - I could be the most aggressive and dominant robot and still lose because I took more damage from the walls. And of course, with indestructible components, it's possible for neither robot to sustain any damage at all. Then what?

Atleast something simple for now, with cease instead of Player X wins, atleast for online events

Interesting.  I didn't think about doing "Cease!" instead of directly declaring a winner for an externally judged event.  Maybe an options menu that caters to either internally refereed (single player) or externally refereed (Parsec tournament) play?

Sorry for the newbie question, but should AI tournaments be determined by the AI, or an external referee?  Could the AI be good enough?  What if "damage", "control", and "aggression" were done in a reasonable way by the AI?

Usually there's an external judge in the case of tournaments, but in a for fun muck around environment, the ai can determine it. It'll be about which direction you'll want to take imo. But worst case external judges can overrule the ai system
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 11:55:34 AM
Hey! Absolutely loving the game as it is so far!

Just a few ideas and stuff I've had on how to make it absolute perfection (Apologies if I'm just spouting stuff that's already been advised/in progress!)
-In the bot builder, in addition to having the 'Snap' setting, I think it could also do with a user-variable for 'grid' size and rotation amount (To allow precise rotation of objects to be exactly 90degs, 45degs, 33.3degs, ect.)
-Some sort of 'Mirror' function... Maybe with the critical components (motors mainly) but especially with extras. Kind of like how in the old Bamzooki Creator you could place an object/limb onto the body and it would be automatically mirrored on the other side to make for easier, quicker building. Would also be especially helpful with the blueprint editor and future decal painter.
-With the blueprint editor, having the option to import vectors in the shape of a circle, triangle, and even the option to create curves would be very useful.
-The blueprint editor would also be a lot more effective with the ability to scale the vertices much like how you can scale them once they're rendered into 3d. I know it's possible to just move the vertices around but scaling would be beneficial with complex shapes and if the circles, triangles ect. got offered, would allow users to create shapes similar to that of, for example - Typhoon or Megabyte's shells. Also, smaller dots to represent the vertices for precision.

That's about all I can think of at the moment...
Hope this helps in some way! Please do keep up the amazing work as it is phenomenal!

1. Snapping already works in the Robot Workshop.  You can also type exact numbers by pulling out the menu arrow on the right side of the screen.  I usually pull out the numbers right away when I'm building.
2. Mirroring is an interesting idea.  I will let @tashic tackle that.  There is already a "duplicate" function, which when combined with manually setting an angle, will get you most of the way there, depending on symmetry.
3. Importing vectors is an interesting idea.  Making a shape in an .svg editor like Gravit Designer might be cool.  The ultimate solution is the RR2 Component Modding Tool, which will allow people to do whatever they want using whatever 3D tool they want.  My personal workflow will be Blender for modeling + Substance Painter for texturing -> RR2 Component Modding Tool -> RR2 Robot Workshop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 12:44:49 PM
This game is great and has some nice potential! but:


- I would  like to see a first person camera position. Nothing really major, but playing with the other camera positions just doesn't feel ideal to me, but then again, that's just me

-Flippers glitch a lot in the sumo arena

1. First person cameras are on the Trello board for us to look at again.  I tried it about a year ago, and it was totally unplayable due to how jerky the robot motion was.  Adding smoothing helped, but it was still nauseating.  I then spent some time with over the shoulder cameras, but it turns out these are extremely difficult to get right.  When it is done well (try the game called "Journey"), it looks completely effortless, but it might take a person months to get it to look right.  Depending on time, I might try to revisit it before launch.

2. What specifically was happening with the flippers in the Sumo arena?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 01:35:58 PM
What went well?
Overall, the gameplay was fun and exciting. Mainly, the reason in my opinion is due to everyone's unfamiliarity with the state of the meta. This has allowed for people to experiment with designs, spinners like Gaullin, Grabbers like RT 2.0, flippers, like Bocuma. Even some of the wackier stuff like Obama Gaming and Mystic's new overhead disc spinner.

During the Gaullin and Bull fight if I recall correctly, Robo and I discussed about the wedge mechanics, in how they are more complex then they appear. This was lovely to find out, because it isn't just a simple "bolt wedglets onto it" like in Ra2.


I am so thrilled to hear this!  Getting rid of the tried and true "magic mobility" systems that most games use was a big gamble.  We had absolutely no idea whether just letting PhysX do its thing with spinning mesh colliders for wheels was a good idea, but it sounds like it has paid off, at least in terms of wedges.


Stability of the game engine was great despite some havocs and the odd crash, given the current status of the game, this was to be expected.
What was terrible?

Self damage is currently my big problem with the fights, on impacts, it appears you take too much damage to appear realistic. This is kind of an issue with vertical spinners. When they're consistently attacking an opponent, they'll be taking more damage to themselves than they deal out, this is usually because they're hitting the indestructible parts of the opponent, which I'll cover later. Another reason for this is if they're pushed into the wall. Robo was a victim of this a lot, just taking large amounts of damage by being bumped into the wall.

Definitely on the list!  I think the problem is that shaking (acceleration-based) damage occurs at too low of a threshold.  I will try raising it to 100 g's or so to see if that make things a little better.

Weight investments, personally I find that the chassis armour feels rather weak for it's weight investment, this could be due to the previously mentioned issue, my personal designs, the fact we have a weight limit of 110kgs which the game isnt designed for currently or all of the above.


Armor doesn't do anything yet, other than add weight. :)


The weapon motor power seems quite lacking, I'm aware that you're aware of this issue, so I don't plan to go into much detail. But it appears you need 50kg minimum to throw something currently, I'l like to see that minimum lowered, almost a fifth I'd say.

I put a speed limiter on motors to minimize crazy physics explosions.  In a few weeks we will be switching over to a new version of PhysX that supposedly improves performance for high-speed spinners.  Once we have switched over, I am hoping to put spinners up to more or less full speed.

Indestructible parts this right now is a large issue, and again, you're aware of this. Drone and Caliban were the main culprits of this in the tournament, along with RT 2.0. We've combated this temporarily with some rule changes for the new tournament which can be read here.


I think I can do a quick-and-dirty fix for component damage, where damage to everything gets transferred to the chassis.  Robots will go from indestructible to *very* destructible with this, so it might take a little tweaking.  It should solve the "Drone" indestructibility issue though.  In the released version of the game, exposing motors like that will be a terrible idea.  IRL motors tend to die immediately when they get nicked by a spinner.

Controlling of undercutters, Mystic's undercutter had some major issues with control, not sure if that's his design or because the game struggles with it. Just a heads up and something to look into.


Undercutters are really difficult to pull off.  By design, they skim the ground.  In a game physics engine, everything is a little more compliant than in real life, so it is highly likely that a wheel will be smushed enough to put the tip of the spinner on the ground, launching the whole robot.  I'm not sure how much fixing I can do for this without making things super derpy.


One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.


Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Stuck on arena objects, Bocuma and some other bots got stuck into the pit button, doesn't make for fun gameplay whilst it does reflect robot fights accurately. The wall is also easy to get stuck too, or atleast it's difficult to get away from, probably due to the wall's design.


Up until recently I had placed OOTA colliders along the wall.  My thought was that they weren't really necessary, because if someone got caught on a wall they would be counted out anyway.


Batteries and control boards, these currently don't effect the robots and aren't actually needed for them to function.


Not yet.  Batteries definitely need to be a thing though.  A robot should be able to run at varying voltages, corresponding to various torque/speed characteristics for each motor.  Smaller motors will have lower voltage limits.

I'm not sure about ESCs and receivers though.  It might be that adding them is too much detail.  Thoughts?


A question I have, is where would I be able to locate the folder for pre-made custom components on Windows? An idea I had was to import CAD files into that folder and add them in, is this a possibility?


I like the way you think!!!  :beer:

Unfortunately, the Unity game engine doesn't play nicely with importing 3D models and textures at runtime.  We are planning to sidestep this by creating a RR2 Component Modding Tool project in Unity and placing it on GitHub for people to download.  The tool will be its own Unity project and allow you to make whatever crazy thing you want as a fully textured 3D model, then pull it into the game to be used as a robot component.

It doesn't work yet.


Overall, this game is great so far. Like I've said before, I'm enjoying it more than Ra2 and whilst I've described more negatives than positives, the positives have a much bigger impact on the overall player experience.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 23, 2019, 04:33:29 PM
I put a speed limiter on motors to minimize crazy physics explosions.  In a few weeks we will be switching over to a new version of PhysX that supposedly improves performance for high-speed spinners.  Once we have switched over, I am hoping to put spinners up to more or less full speed.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sbedLpUKEsM/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 23, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 23, 2019, 05:21:54 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Actually, single thread performance is probably the biggest differentiator between laptops and gaming desktops. Most modern laptops have quad cores, as do most gaming PCs (over 55% of steam users are on a quad core system), however laptop CPUs are constrained by thermal/power limitations to low clock speeds, whereas desktop CPUs can boost to over 5GHz (depending on the exact chip).

It's good to hear that there's an inbuilt solution to high RPM collisions, the future is looking bright for this game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 23, 2019, 07:45:33 PM
You mentioned that the max speed of spinners is limited by the refresh rate of the physics engine (or something to that effect), which in turn is limited by the minimum spec hardware that you want the game to run on. As a compromise, would it be possible to put a slider for physics refresh rate in the options, so those with more powerful hardware can put that hardware to use to improve the gameplay?

Possibly.  I haven’t tried adjusting physics tick rate at runtime.  I can look into it though.

PhysX 3.4 supposedly does some nifty interpolation for rapidly spinning objects that allows for much finer collision checking for rapidly spinning objects.  Hopefully it will make high speed spinners possible without having to significantly increase the tick rate for the entire physics engine.  Physics doesn’t multithread well, so high powered machines don’t tend to have significant advantages over lower powered ones.  I’m hoping that the new PhysX will solve the issue entirely.  Fingers crossed!
Actually, single thread performance is probably the biggest differentiator between laptops and gaming desktops. Most modern laptops have quad cores, as do most gaming PCs (over 55% of steam users are on a quad core system), however laptop CPUs are constrained by thermal/power limitations to low clock speeds, whereas desktop CPUs can boost to over 5GHz (depending on the exact chip).

It's good to hear that there's an inbuilt solution to high RPM collisions, the future is looking bright for this game

You might be right -- a faster CPU might allow us to double or triple the overall tick rate.  400 fps is fast, but 1000 fps is just a crazy psychological barrier. :) 

Check out the "Speculative continuous collision detection" blurb in the blog post below:

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/11/12/physics-changes-in-unity-2018-3-beta/ (https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/11/12/physics-changes-in-unity-2018-3-beta/)

We haven't upgraded yet, but are planning to do so once Unity comes out with their 2018.4 LTS release.  I'm hoping this comes sometime in the next few weeks so that we can play with it before the Bugglebots Alpha Build (BAB???) on May 25th.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on April 25, 2019, 12:22:06 PM
For the AI:
I need some more time to think about it, but off the top of my head here are some of the things I would like to see included:

Some way to know the approximate dimensions / reach of myself and my opponents
Time since my last collision with each other bot
Distance from and angle to each wall of the arena

I haven't looked at the new botbuilder recently but I think smartzones are important and so we need a way to check each of them
Normally distance to each robot is nice to have but that can be calculated from the x, y, z coordinates

There was another game called roboforge which had a well done AI system which I could probably refer to for more ideas, but its super old and I think has trouble running on newer computers.
I'll post more when I think of them.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 25, 2019, 01:03:32 PM
Great feedback here!  Thank you!

Some way to know the approximate dimensions / reach of myself and my opponents

I need to think about this a bit.  Right now I have the type of component and the health on each component of our own robot, but not the local position/reach.  I thought that since each robot would have its own custom AI code, it would be easy enough to adjust the values, but you are right in that it might be better to have AI code that adjusts itself to each new robot and doesn't require manual tweaking.

Time since my last collision with each other bot

This existed in RA2.  I wasn't quite sure how I would use it, so I left it off, but I can definitely include it if we need it.

Distance from and angle to each wall of the arena

In RR2, "walls" aren't explicitly defined.  Any object in the scene (wall, crate, spinner, fence, stairs, the side of a ramp, etc.) can be a navigation obstacle. 

Arenas have predefined navmeshes that are computed once all of the obstacles are placed in the scene.  I am relying on Unity's built-in NavMesh system to do this.

In addition to the arena's NavMesh, "hazards" can also be placed in the scene.  These are things that are not robots, but explicitly cause threats to robots, such as Out of the Arena colliders, arena spinners, lava pits, etc.

The AI system receives inputs from each of these differently:

NavMesh - A method exists that returns a list of (x,y,z) waypoints when given a destination from the robot's current position.

Arena Hazards - A method exists that returns the location (x,y,z) of the closest point and the center point of the nearest hazard.

I haven't looked at the new botbuilder recently but I think smartzones are important and so we need a way to check each of them
Normally distance to each robot is nice to have but that can be calculated from the x, y, z coordinates

Once smart zones are made available in the workshop, they should be fed into the AI.  We don't have them available in the workshop yet.  The AI code is already written to include basic smart zone information though.

Distance between robots can be computed because you can get a list of all of the robots in the scene.  By default, the gets a list of waypoints to the nearest robot, then drives toward getWaypoints[0].

There was another game called roboforge which had a well done AI system which I could probably refer to for more ideas, but its super old and I think has trouble running on newer computers.
I'll post more when I think of them.

Nice!  Apanx also mentioned robocode, which looked like a good place to mine for ideas.


Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 25, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Yeah about that. I was thinking about using it for my next tournament, but problems are apparent as it can be witnessed in this video:
https://youtu.be/Jj-f7YfPlEc
Sorry about poor quality. OBS was a pita so i had to lower bitrate
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 09:17:57 AM
One of Robo's complaints was the pit that rose up after a certain period of time, I agree with this design flaw currently. It's a huge disadvantage for control bots. Continuing with some of the arena design issues I saw is that there should be some oota zones, it'd just be nice to have, maybe not Series 7 wall height arenas or all around the edge, I'd suggest how battlebots does it, in the corners. That'll stop  Ra2 Slapshot like stuff box rushing and oota'ing the opponent which is just boring and wont lead to interesting gameplay and fights. The rolling pin is odd, I think it needs to have it's orientation changed and given some more kick to it. You might have to re-position it to prevent it flinging robots into the pit if you do decide to take this route.

Maybe try the Warehouse arena?  It has a pretty low wall height.  It might be a good match for the current batch of flippers.


Yeah about that. I was thinking about using it for my next tournament, but problems are apparent as it can be witnessed in this video:
https://youtu.be/Jj-f7YfPlEc
Sorry about poor quality. OBS was a pita so i had to lower bitrate

Ahh.  The overwhelming power of the arena spinner.  We can work on that.

I think the issue is that the arena spinner is treated as a kinematic rigidbody, meaning we are directly setting the orientation of the spinner every frame, instead of letting the physics system handle it.  This means that the spinner effectively has an infinite mass, and everything that it collides with as it spins is going to go flying away uncontrollably -- there is no "give" when it hits.  This should be a relatively easy fix, just swapping it out with a regular old hinge motor attached to the ground.

While we are at it, we might just have to add the Motenergy ME0909 to the game. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 26, 2019, 10:31:14 AM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 01:05:18 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 26, 2019, 01:44:31 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
No game is running perfect, it happens off recording too
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 26, 2019, 01:54:16 PM
No not only that. There is also a problem where floor break and oota bots, like in the video

By any chance was the game running slower than normal when you recorded this?  The Warehouse arena shouldn’t be any different than the Test Arena, but if the game was having trouble keeping up with physics, that would explain the rigidbodies penetrating too far, then exploding outward to resolve the collision.
No game is running perfect, it happens off recording too

Hmm... So weird.  I'll take a look to see if I can find anything fishy about the way the arena was put together.

The only thing I can think of off of the top of my head is that the warehouse has a huge semi-transparent area, which tends to make things more difficult for a computer's GPU.  This shouldn't directly affect the physics though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2019, 01:18:26 PM
Suggestion, have bots be saved in the game install directory, instead of the AppData folder. Makes the game more portable and makes the files easier to find for sharing purposes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: UberPyro on April 28, 2019, 04:46:00 PM
I agree with Badger here. Also if there's ever modding with lots of custom components we might want multiple installs that don't interfere with each other, though there are other ways around that.

Is there anyway I can see what features are planned for future versions? Anyway, I have some suggestions after building in the botlab for some time. A lot of suggestions and a lot of them are complex, so I don't expect you to agree with all of them or try to implement much of what's here in the near future, I know you guys are busy.
I know you guys are not nearly done with the botlab and that given time you guys will make it great, but talking about the botlab right now as it is, it's still pretty clunky in the sense that it takes a very long time to use the controls and the tools given to you to make the botlab do what you want it to do. First of all, I think keyboard shortcuts would improve the building experience 1000%. Things like pressing x to focus the x coordinate, delete for deleting components, arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating, basically all the buttons and fields in the interface should have some keyboard mapping because clicking on everything takes forever. Remapping keys would also be great, i.e. i much prefer RMB to MMB for panning. As it is, it's very easy to make mistakes by putting the wrong numbers into the coordinates or into the wrong coordinates, and it's also way too easy to get yourself into a situation where you move something too far away and can only fix it through editing the bot file. An undue button would be a great help for this, and additionally some way to control the max distance from origin of all the components and toggle the room that you are in would all be huge helps. It's also really easy to get objects stuck inside of others, and there's currently a glitch where some small objects won't be able to be selected unless you exit and join the workshop. A lot of these issues could also be helped by having an expandable tree view of all the components like in the bot file and being able to select components like that. Being able to turn off blur from being too close would also be great. When using the moving sliders, they go in increments of .025, and if the component isn't currently at a multiple of .025 then it snaps to a multiple: there should be some way to turn the snapping to a multiple off, because a lot of the more complex builds will not use those multiples very often. This also applies to the rotation and size sliders. There should be a way to control what interval the moving axes move by, either through a field or through several hotkeys which are each set to common values, i.e. .01 and .005 with .025 as the default. It would be great if there was some way to change the directions of the coordinate system so that it doesn't have to be determined by what the object is sitting on, a lot of the times I just want the normal xyz directions. It would be fantastic if there was a way to copy the x, y, or z coordinate of one object and then set the coordinate to another in a streamlined fashion, e.g. hold x while clicking on another object. It would also be great if there was some way to clone mirrors of objects and flip each of the components. It would be nice if we could smooth components along a certain rotational axis. For the chassis and custom object builder it would be great if we could change the numerical values of the xy coordinates via text field of each of the vertices like we can for objects in the rest of the builder.

edit: also deleting objects doesn't need a warning, but deleting an object plus all the things that connect to it should be allowed and with warning.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 28, 2019, 05:07:09 PM
Suggestion, have bots be saved in the game install directory, instead of the AppData folder. Makes the game more portable and makes the files easier to find for sharing purposes.

True, but it also gets overwritten on app updates, and potentially suffers from permission issues, where only installers have permission to write to the directory, not the applications themselves.  We can look into it a little more, but no promises on this one.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on April 28, 2019, 05:12:13 PM
arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating,
I honestly want to see keyboard movement for more precise, movepixel like stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on April 28, 2019, 05:26:56 PM
I agree with Badger here. Also if there's ever modding with lots of custom components we might want multiple installs that don't interfere with each other, though there are other ways around that.

Is there anyway I can see what features are planned for future versions? Anyway, I have some suggestions after building in the botlab for some time. A lot of suggestions and a lot of them are complex, so I don't expect you to agree with all of them or try to implement much of what's here in the near future, I know you guys are busy.
I know you guys are not nearly done with the botlab and that given time you guys will make it great, but talking about the botlab right now as it is, it's still pretty clunky in the sense that it takes a very long time to use the controls and the tools given to you to make the botlab do what you want it to do. First of all, I think keyboard shortcuts would improve the building experience 1000%. Things like pressing x to focus the x coordinate, delete for deleting components, arrow keys/wasd + shift + space for moving things around/rotating, basically all the buttons and fields in the interface should have some keyboard mapping because clicking on everything takes forever. Remapping keys would also be great, i.e. i much prefer RMB to MMB for panning. As it is, it's very easy to make mistakes by putting the wrong numbers into the coordinates or into the wrong coordinates, and it's also way too easy to get yourself into a situation where you move something too far away and can only fix it through editing the bot file. An undue button would be a great help for this, and additionally some way to control the max distance from origin of all the components and toggle the room that you are in would all be huge helps. It's also really easy to get objects stuck inside of others, and there's currently a glitch where some small objects won't be able to be selected unless you exit and join the workshop. A lot of these issues could also be helped by having an expandable tree view of all the components like in the bot file and being able to select components like that. Being able to turn off blur from being too close would also be great. When using the moving sliders, they go in increments of .025, and if the component isn't currently at a multiple of .025 then it snaps to a multiple: there should be some way to turn the snapping to a multiple off, because a lot of the more complex builds will not use those multiples very often. This also applies to the rotation and size sliders. There should be a way to control what interval the moving axes move by, either through a field or through several hotkeys which are each set to common values, i.e. .01 and .005 with .025 as the default. It would be great if there was some way to change the directions of the coordinate system so that it doesn't have to be determined by what the object is sitting on, a lot of the times I just want the normal xyz directions. It would be fantastic if there was a way to copy the x, y, or z coordinate of one object and then set the coordinate to another in a streamlined fashion, e.g. hold x while clicking on another object. It would also be great if there was some way to clone mirrors of objects and flip each of the components. It would be nice if we could smooth components along a certain rotational axis. For the chassis and custom object builder it would be great if we could change the numerical values of the xy coordinates via text field of each of the vertices like we can for objects in the rest of the builder.

Thank you so much for taking the time to dig into the bot building process.  There is so much great feedback here, it is going to take a while to parse through all of it.

Right now we have an internal Trello board that is growing a lot faster than it is shrinking, so no promises yet on getting a public-facing version of it going.  We are working as fast as we can, and I’m more than a little afraid of what would happen to our ability to process the feature requests if we opened things up to the general public at this point.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on April 30, 2019, 03:52:07 PM
After doing some more building recently, I've got a bit more feedback regarding the bot builder. My biggest bugbear at the moment is chassis editing, which at the moment works something like this:


Needless to say, this is quite annoying. I'd love to try making a "shrink-wrapped" chassis design like I used to in RA3, but this (and the fact you can't see your internal components while chassis-editing) makes it a bit tedious and difficult.

I've also found that sometimes, a component that's small or mostly-hidden isn't selectable when it should be. I can click on it, and I absolutely am clicking on it, but it selects whatever's next to it instead. Pain in the arse when trying to move or colour the more finicky parts of your robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 09, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 09, 2019, 04:06:40 PM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.

Interesting.  We haven't started on ESCs yet, but this is definitely something that could be programmed into an ESC.

Also, we just added a drill motor with a lot less torque than an Ampflow, which might accomplish the same thing.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 11, 2019, 05:13:36 PM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Unless you have separate drive motors and weapon motors like in DSL, then I think this will also be needed once the motor buff comes into effect. You want your weapon motor to be going at (say) 3000 RPM, but if your drive motors are going that fast, your robot will be doing 60mph and be completely uncontrollable.

It'd be handy (and realistic) if lowering the RPM also increased the torque. You could make shovebots that drive slowly but have a tonne of pushing power, or electric lifters/crushers with some serious force behind them. RA3 had something similar for spin motors, but you could increase speed and torque separately and there was no incentive to not just crank them both up to 100, so the sliders may as well have not been there at all.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 07:47:57 AM
Personally, one of the more important things I would like to see added (besides pneumatics, custom decals, and destructible parts) is adjustable motor speeds. It would definitely help with making decent lifters among other things. I've been making a Complete Control style robot, and when it lifts, it'll just flip the opponent instead of picking it up. So far, I've been able to work around it a little bit, but it isn't as good as it could be.
Unless you have separate drive motors and weapon motors like in DSL, then I think this will also be needed once the motor buff comes into effect. You want your weapon motor to be going at (say) 3000 RPM, but if your drive motors are going that fast, your robot will be doing 60mph and be completely uncontrollable.

It'd be handy (and realistic) if lowering the RPM also increased the torque. You could make shovebots that drive slowly but have a tonne of pushing power, or electric lifters/crushers with some serious force behind them. RA3 had something similar for spin motors, but you could increase speed and torque separately and there was no incentive to not just crank them both up to 100, so the sliders may as well have not been there at all.

The plan right now is as follows:

1. Put as many real-world motors as possible in the game.  This includes geared and non-geared versions as appropriate.  The Ampflows currently in the game are already using real-world numbers.
2. I am planning to use the following specs for each motor.

a. no-load speed at rated voltage (depends on number and voltage of battery bank)
b. stall torque at rated voltage (depends on number and voltage of battery bank)
c. stall current at rated voltage
d. mass in kg
e. dimensions in meters

Pushing power is dependent not only on torque, but also on the available wheel friction.  We don't have a super-accurate friction model, but it seems to be working well enough for now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 12, 2019, 09:17:59 AM
Honestly, for this game i dont have many requests atm, only ones i kinda have:
-Transparency scale for polycarb components, as current ones are kinda meh, and barely transparent when component is thin
-Smooth texture option for materials, because current ones look like pavement honestly, and look out of place when component is stretched
-Overvolting. But i would kinda avoid that until battery consumption works
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 12, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
I would imagine that smaller batteries are planned, as the current ones are basically SLA car batteries, and modern combat robots all use LiPos.

Geared and non-geared seems like a sensible compromise regarding motor speeds.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 05:11:28 PM
Sorry - I forgot to mention that we are using a basic DC motor torque-speed curve as well.

Maximum torque occurs at zero speed.  Torque drops linearly with speed.  At maximum speed, there is zero torque.

In theory this should give a nice, realistic speed buildup over time.

In practice, I'm having a little bit of trouble at the moment figuring out why speed is only building up to 1600 RPM on a motor that is supposed to top out at 4000 RPM.  Speed is pretty erratic too, jumping up to 1600 RPM, then suddenly down to 100, then back up again.  I will have to do some work to stabilize spinners and make them nice and consistent like their real-life counterparts.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 05:12:36 PM
-Smaler batts, maybe like Pulsar/Magnetar had?
I would imagine that smaller batteries are planned, as the current ones are basically SLA car batteries, and modern combat robots all use LiPos.

Geared and non-geared seems like a sensible compromise regarding motor speeds.

Agreed.  The existing ones are the 12V 7 Amp-Hour batteries that my students use in their competition.  I have LiPos and LiFePos on the list of things to model.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 12, 2019, 08:19:38 PM
One other thing I'd like to see added is custom wheels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 12, 2019, 08:23:55 PM
One other thing I'd like to see added is custom wheels.

The RR2 Component Modding Tool is on to-do list, and should handle this quite nicely.  I'm hoping people come up with all sorts of crazy things for wheels. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 17, 2019, 04:40:35 PM
There has been a new update and i have some feedback
First and most importantly, damage. Damage is currently pretty good, only gripes i have with it is that it is unfair to small components. Like if a component is tiny but it has 50 mm steel, it will fall off easier than it should. Also motors fall off too easy, like self-destruct easy. I cant flip a bot without breaking the motor off.
Oh yeah flipping. Linear actuators are working. Hinged ones are added for flippers. And boy they are powerful! Issues im having are the fact that it falls off too easy, and the fact that it clips thru other stuff sometimes.
Also for some reason, bots are kind of bouncy
Epic arena btw
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 04:47:19 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 05:34:48 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 05:39:39 PM
I also switched to PhysX 3.4 from PhysX 3.3.  This significantly reduced CPU load, but might have messed with other things as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 06:01:49 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 06:25:07 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots

Shoot.  I will take a look at it next week to see what I can do.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: TheRoboteer on May 17, 2019, 06:37:00 PM
2 wheel drive bots just seem to straight up not work this update. The chassis seems to have a ton of friction with the floor which makes bots unable to turn, and motors seem to have less torque too which doubles this issue.

Will report further after I play the update more

For new robots, or existing ones?  I set motors to their IRL torque-speed curves for this build.  They should be a little different than before.  Balance is really important in general.  Does shifting the weight distribution help?
This was on existing bots

Shoot.  I will take a look at it next week to see what I can do.
Just to clarify, by existing bots, I mean bots that I built in a previous update, rather than the AI bots in game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 17, 2019, 06:53:53 PM
Just to clarify, by existing bots, I mean bots that I built in a previous update, rather than the AI bots in game

Would you mind sending me the bots you are using for testing?  It should make it a little easier to compare things vs the ones I already have.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 19, 2019, 08:46:49 AM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 21, 2019, 03:24:25 PM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:

Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
2. The AI builder should fire button 1 when close.  There was apparently a bug which prevented anyone from pressing button 1, which has been fixed.
3. I just added a super low gear ratio 37 mm motor.  It can flip beetleweights now.  I feel like the existing gear motor should have been able to lift other robots, but for some reason 1 Newton-meter of torque didn't translate into 10 Newtons of force at 10 cm.  The new motor has a LOT more torque, so it should do the trick.
4. I tweaked Manta, TR3, and Earthquake.  They all flip in different ways.
5. You can now use a laptop trackpad in the botlab.  Woohoo!  Building robots on the work computer! :)

I still have more tweaking and balancing to do, but hopefully should be able to push something out in the next 24 hours...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 22, 2019, 11:34:01 AM
Here is my feedback for the new update:
- I love how you can now make beetleweight robots. The main issue is that there is so much friction on the tires, and it won't let me turn. Also, when I was building one, it wouldn't let me re-select a motor.
- Parts actually fall off! Yay! The only issue is that small parts fall off way too easy. I would recommend having a set minimum for damage, and have it not be based completely off of weight.
- The AI builder is good to have, but it would be helpful to have it already working. I made a spinner, and the AI wouldn't do anything with the weapon for the entire match. It would also be nice to have a pre-made list for you to choose from, like one setup for spinners, flippers, and whatnot.
- The motors can't do sh**e! I made an attempt at a very light-weight hammer, and it couldn't even lift it.  :vista:

Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
2. The AI builder should fire button 1 when close.  There was apparently a bug which prevented anyone from pressing button 1, which has been fixed.
3. I just added a super low gear ratio 37 mm motor.  It can flip beetleweights now.  I feel like the existing gear motor should have been able to lift other robots, but for some reason 1 Newton-meter of torque didn't translate into 10 Newtons of force at 10 cm.  The new motor has a LOT more torque, so it should do the trick.
4. I tweaked Manta, TR3, and Earthquake.  They all flip in different ways.
5. You can now use a laptop trackpad in the botlab.  Woohoo!  Building robots on the work computer! :)

I still have more tweaking and balancing to do, but hopefully should be able to push something out in the next 24 hours...


Sounds good!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 22, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
Lots of fixes coming here shortly:
1. Parts don't come off until they receive about 20 times as much damage.  Before they fall off, they propagate damage up to their parent component.  This means that if you keep hitting the same spot you will eventually damage the chassis.
Honestly, you couldve buffed up the hp multiplier for stuff by 400%
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2019, 06:23:14 PM
So up until now, material selection hasn’t affected damage resistance.  I’m starting to address that in the next build.  The 1 mm thick UHMW on Holy Wings flipper is not going to last long though.  😊
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 22, 2019, 07:07:15 PM
I’m going to attempt to make a distinction between hardness and toughness:

UHMW is a very tough material.  It will take a lot of hits, but is susceptible to puncture because it is not hard.

Polycarbonate is a harder material, but brittle.  It will resist puncture, but is susceptible to shock.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on May 22, 2019, 11:16:02 PM
Nice armor mechanism. That will make concussion or piercing, or RA2's equivalent of shock or puncture, far meaningful and important
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 23, 2019, 02:08:42 AM
So up until now, material selection hasn’t affected damage resistance.  I’m starting to address that in the next build.  The 1 mm thick UHMW on Holy Wings flipper is not going to last long though.  😊
Most of people use 1mm armour on flippers, niw that there is actual damage and durability mechanism, people will be smarter
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 05:57:22 AM
Bugglebots built #2 is up!

https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds (https://robot-rumble.itch.io/builds)


Also, our Bugglebots teaser trailer.  Thanks Callum!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb9otlrujE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njb9otlrujE)



[Added in Bugglebots Build #1]

[New in Bugglebots Build #2]
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 08:24:16 AM
Played it: here is the feedback
1. Flipper motors are still broken, they flip and break off
2. Music is added back, and i cant mute it
3. Worst one, you either get one hit KO'ed or do a one Hit KO
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 08:40:53 AM
Okay so I just tried this out and just from the first few minutes I have this feedback:

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 08:54:57 AM
Played it: here is the feedback
1. Flipper motors are still broken, they flip and break off
2. Music is added back, and i cant mute it
3. Worst one, you either get one hit KO'ed or do a one Hit KO

1. and 3. - I've been testing with Holy Wings versus a horizontal spinner.  I have found that if you leave everything on Holy Wings at 1 mm UHMW, the heavy spinning bar will indeed one-hit destroy any UHMW that it touches.  This is fairly realistic.  1 mm UHMW is like protecting your robot with cardboard against a big spinner.  If you armor everything with about 5 mm of steel, however, Holy Wings survives a lot longer. 

The biggest problem I am finding now is that the motors don't have enough torque to lift the flipper arms fast enough to work as flippers against another heavyweight.  Now that all of the UHMW has been replaced by thicker steel armor, Holy Wings is just a wedge that can wave "hi!" with its flipper arms.  I'm not sure how the bigger AmpFlow PMDC motors would work as flippers in real life either.  To my knowledge people tend to use pneumatics for heavyweight flippers.

2. So sorry about the music!  I'm not sure what happened here, but we definitely need to fix this. 
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 09:04:25 AM
Okay so I just tried this out and just from the first few minutes I have this feedback:

  • Manta's flipper is really havok-y. It manages one or two flips that yeet me right into the ceiling, and then it spends the rest of the fight propelling itself around the arena at warp-speed while its flipper panel glitches into another dimension. I've had the same issue with Goodbye Kiss's axe in the past, dunno if that helps at all. Earthquake's flipper doesn't close properly, preventing it from firing more than once or twice. TR3's flipper seems to work fine.
  • None of my robots' weapons work anymore. I get that you can now choose which button fires them, but the dropdown just says "Button1", "Button2" etc, with no clue as to what those buttons actually are. Is it possible that you added controller compatibility for Bugglebots, but broke keyboard compatibility in the process?
  • Bots still seem too fragile. I thought this might have been just Fait Accompli and its 3mm steel, which is the bare minimum for a real-life HW, but then I noticed that sometimes, I'll start taking massive damage while just driving normally, without my opponent anywhere near me. I can only imagine that my robot is somehow rubbing against the floor, and the game is interpreting that as damage. Ignoring the fact that a 6WD robot like Fait Accompli shouldn't be touching the floor with anything but its wheels in the first place, this should not be enough to kill you in two seconds.

1. Re: Manta - Oof.  I struggled with Manta for about three hours on Tuesday night.  In the game, pneumatics use a plunger system that pushes on the lifting arm to cause it to raise.  In Manta's case, the plunger is really far back, which means that the physics engine can do wonky things as the plunger penetrates the flipper arm and the physics engine computes the impulse required to resolve the collision.  I thought I had it working well, but you aren't the first one to report that it is broken.

Back to the drawing (tweaking) board...

2. Re: Unworking weapons - There is still a bug that I haven't found that sometimes prevents button inputs from being read.  This is an intermittent problem.  My workaround has been to go back to the Robot Selection screen and start over.  For me starting over fixes it about 70% of the time.  I definitely need to track this down, but each time I think I have solved it, it pops up again.

3. Re: Driving damage - You are absolutely right.  Driving normally shouldn't damage a robot.  Somehow or another something is registering a collision with a ton of impulse.  Would you mind sending me Fait Accompli?  I would like to do some testing.  I have a few things I have in mind to improve driving dynamics that might solve this problem as well.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 09:37:55 AM
1. Re: Manta - Oof.  I struggled with Manta for about three hours on Tuesday night.  In the game, pneumatics use a plunger system that pushes on the lifting arm to cause it to raise.  In Manta's case, the plunger is really far back, which means that the physics engine can do wonky things as the plunger penetrates the flipper arm and the physics engine computes the impulse required to resolve the collision.  I thought I had it working well, but you aren't the first one to report that it is broken.

Back to the drawing (tweaking) board...
I think Manta's flipper has been broken for a while tbh, I managed to make it glitch out at least once in the previous build.

2. Re: Unworking weapons - There is still a bug that I haven't found that sometimes prevents button inputs from being read.  This is an intermittent problem.  My workaround has been to go back to the Robot Selection screen and start over.  For me starting over fixes it about 70% of the time.  I definitely need to track this down, but each time I think I have solved it, it pops up again.
I'll try that. I assume Button1 is Space, then?

3. Re: Driving damage - You are absolutely right.  Driving normally shouldn't damage a robot.  Somehow or another something is registering a collision with a ton of impulse.  Would you mind sending me Fait Accompli?  I would like to do some testing.  I have a few things I have in mind to improve driving dynamics that might solve this problem as well.
Yep, I'll send it over right away.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 10:05:19 AM
1. and 3. - I've been testing with Holy Wings versus a horizontal spinner.  I have found that if you leave everything on Holy Wings at 1 mm UHMW, the heavy spinning bar will indeed one-hit destroy any UHMW that it touches.  This is fairly realistic.  1 mm UHMW is like protecting your robot with cardboard against a big spinner.  If you armor everything with about 5 mm of steel, however, Holy Wings survives a lot longer. 
Problem is that the bots i was fighting had Steel armour. This OHKO also tends to happen to prebuilt bots

The biggest problem I am finding now is that the motors don't have enough torque to lift the flipper arms fast enough to work as flippers against another heavyweight.  Now that all of the UHMW has been replaced by thicker steel armor,
Make Servo motors that have high torque?
As for the flipper arms, i have been using Hinged actuators which are op

Holy Wings is just a wedge that can wave "hi!" with its flipper arms.  I'm not sure how the bigger AmpFlow PMDC motors would work as flippers in real life either.  To my knowledge people tend to use pneumatics for heavyweight flippers.
Well tbh that is old wings, it does not use a hinged actuator for flipping

Another oddity that i find is that when keys are binded, it keeps the control (lets say space), but if i rebind it again, the old imput key (space) will stay written while the new key will be functional

Also Metals have this odd Blue-ish tint where tint RGB is set on all to 1

AAAAAAlso like it how lightweight bots have great driving, but HW bots tend to bounce, 4wd ones atleast
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 10:56:21 AM

I think Manta's flipper has been broken for a while tbh, I managed to make it glitch out at least once in the previous build.

True.  Its flipper geometry makes it tough for the physics engine.  I might have to do some cheating with the visuals to get rid of the problem entirely.

I'll try that. I assume Button1 is Space, then?

Correct.  This is reconfigurable, but space is the default.

Yep, I'll send it over right away.

Excellent!  I'll see what I can do.  I had a brainstorm last night which will take some work but might make driving a lot smoother for all robots.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 11:02:41 AM
Did my PM get through to you? The first time I tried, I got a "there's already a file with this name" error, and the second time I tried, I got a "you've already sent this PM" error. And GTM annoyingly doesn't save messages to your outbox by default, so I don't know whether either of them actually got sent.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 11:07:09 AM
Problem is that the bots i was fighting had Steel armour. This OHKO also tends to happen to prebuilt bots

Was this happening even when the chassis had steel armor?  Steel armor on a large body should give a ton of HP that should take a while to chip through. 

The new puncturing system might be the culprit.  If a robot hits a UHMW piece that is easy to puncture, it will generate a ton of puncture damage that will carry over into the chassis.  I've seen cases where a spinner punctures a UHMW or MDF piece for a 45x damage multiplier.  Instead of just saying that the component is dead and stopping there, that damage is then transferred to the chassis.  This could easily disable a bot.  Need to nerf this.

The prebuilt bots don't use the same system, so we can give them infinite HP without affecting the Botlab robots.

Make Servo motors that have high torque?
As for the flipper arms, i have been using Hinged actuators which are op
Well tbh that is old wings, it does not use a hinged actuator for flipping


Ah!  I was wondering how your flippers were so powerful!  @tashic put them in, but I haven't experimented with them yet.



Another oddity that i find is that when keys are binded, it keeps the control (lets say space), but if i rebind it again, the old imput key (space) will stay written while the new key will be functional

So weird...


Also Metals have this odd Blue-ish tint where tint RGB is set on all to 1


Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.


AAAAAAlso like it how lightweight bots have great driving, but HW bots tend to bounce, 4wd ones atleast

Driving again!  Need to fix this! :)  I have something in mind.  I don't know if it will work, but it has the potential to make driving a lot smoother.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 11:15:37 AM
Did my PM get through to you? The first time I tried, I got a "there's already a file with this name" error, and the second time I tried, I got a "you've already sent this PM" error. And GTM annoyingly doesn't save messages to your outbox by default, so I don't know whether either of them actually got sent.

I have not received a PM from you.  I just sent you a PM with my email address.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 24, 2019, 11:23:44 AM
Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.
Its throughout the whole game, so it might be post processing, UHMW is white tho
Also any chances to use an option to disable post processing? I have a feeling that that might be the culprit to the lag on lower end machines

As for driving, Just remove friction for now
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on May 24, 2019, 12:30:28 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel, weapon, or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 24, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.

My assumption is that it being all chained to the chassis ripples in. Killing the chassis
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 12:45:29 PM
My current hypothesis on the whole Instant KO thing is that everything is treated like a part of the chassis.  Most of the time when I lose a bot, it's because it got hit in the wheel or a thin weapon support.

I guess at the moment, everyone has RA2 logic in their head where if it isn't a part of the main chassis, it won't damage the bot when hit.

My assumption is that it being all chained to the chassis ripples in. Killing the chassis

Agreed.  The easy fix is to stop all damage propagation, but getting parts to break off nicely becomes an issue in this case.

Another alternative is to just roll all components that are contained within the same rigid body into a single, combined HP number.  Don’t do breakage at all for components within a rigid body.  Everything that isn’t connected via a hinge joint would then be part of the chassis.

I’ll give this a go today to see how it feels.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 12:55:28 PM
Lighting probably?  Either that or post-processing.  They both could be contributing to an excess of blue.  I'm pretty sure the texture is grayscale.
Its throughout the whole game, so it might be post processing, UHMW is white tho
Also any chances to use an option to disable post processing? I have a feeling that that might be the culprit to the lag on lower end machines

As for driving, Just remove friction for now

Interesting.  We’ll see if we can add disabling post processing to the “Low Quality” setting.

Friction coefficient is currently set to zero for all chassis materials.  I believe the reason things drive a little weirdly is that when the chassis skids along the floor the collision resolution impulse direction isn’t always purely vertical.  I have had luck in the past adding sphere colliders to the bottom of a robot to fix this.  I might try to do this automatically for all botlab robots.  I can see where this might make wedges a little less effective, as the tip of the wedge would be just slightly off the ground.  Maybe it wouldn’t be too bad if all robots were subject to the same limitation.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 01:45:09 PM
Did my PM get through to you?

I just tried out Fait Accompli and fixed the concussion damage issue when the robot is driving around.  It turns out that I had set the minimum impulse limit ridiculously low such that pretty much every heavyweight would damage itself just by driving.

I also noticed that the axe didn't move when triggered.  I tried dropping the thickness of the steel used.  That did the trick.  Here are my settings:

Axe head (pyramid) - 6 mm steel - 0.481 kg
Axe shaft (cube) - 3 mm steel - 0.637 kg

Now to see what it does to other robots...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 01:55:36 PM
Did my PM get through to you?

I just tried out Fait Accompli and fixed the concussion damage issue when the robot is driving around.  It turns out that I had set the minimum impulse limit ridiculously low such that pretty much every heavyweight would damage itself just by driving.

I also noticed that the axe didn't move when triggered.  I tried dropping the thickness of the steel used.  That did the trick.  Here are my settings:

Axe head (pyramid) - 6 mm steel - 0.481 kg
Axe shaft (cube) - 3 mm steel - 0.637 kg

Now to see what it does to other robots...
Oh, so the weapon actually did work, it was just too heavy for the motor? Well gee, now I feel stupid  :facepalm: I did actually run another test with Defcon and its weapon worked just fine (it even gyros now!), so I guess that was all that was wrong. I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!

Thanks!

I also have a sneaking suspicion that when I tell the physics system to give me a certain number of Newton-meters of torque, the system isn't giving me that much torque.  I'll have to set up a test rig in Unity to see for sure.  I feel like the motor you are using should be able to swing that axe head around in real life.

FWIW I have a 6" diameter motor in the works for weapons, similar to the old E-teks.  I'm not sure how it would work for an axebot, but it should be killer for spinners.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 24, 2019, 02:17:58 PM
I'll try your suggested weights, and also see what happens if I put a counterweight on the other end.

Glad you've got the driving issue sorted out, though!

Thanks!

I also have a sneaking suspicion that when I tell the physics system to give me a certain number of Newton-meters of torque, the system isn't giving me that much torque.  I'll have to set up a test rig in Unity to see for sure.  I feel like the motor you are using should be able to swing that axe head around in real life.

FWIW I have a 6" diameter motor in the works for weapons, similar to the old E-teks.  I'm not sure how it would work for an axebot, but it should be killer for spinners.
I lowered the weight of the axe and it still didn't swing in the test area... then I switched the motor's activation button to Button 2 and then back to Button 1, and it worked perfectly. I think what might actually be happening is, where I've ported my bots over from the previous version, there's some sort of compatibility issue and it doesn't know what key should activate the robot's weapon until I go into the bot lab and tell it.

It now also doesn't self-right anymore, which might be because of the lowered weight, or it might be a torque issue. It was just about able to self-right in the previous build.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
I feel like the motor isn't quite torquey enough, and doesn't generate the tip speed it should.

For the moment I have set the minimum tip speed for rotating puncturing objects to be 10 m/s.  The axe isn't quite there, and doesn't seem to be able to get above 10 m/s there no matter how much I drop the mass.  The axe itself is breaking off from being hit before the tip does any damage to its opponent.

My brain is full and I need to head home.  I'll think about it on the drive home tonight.

Some options:
1. Reduce the tip speed requirement.  This is bad, because all of a sudden just bumping into stuff will cause damage.

2. Increase the motor torque.

Thinking about #2, I just checked the torque and saw that the stall torque on an AmpFlow A40-300 is only 27 Newton-meters.  This is pretty low, considering how we are asking it to swing a big heavy axe.

I'm going to pop in the geared version of the motor.  I have an Ampflow A28-400G already modeled.  Hopefully the 220 Newton-meters of the geared version will be enough to swing the axe in a satisfying way.

EDIT - Now that I'm thinking about it, even a 220 Nm (approximately 22 kg-meter) gear motor might have trouble turning over a 100 kg robot with an arm like that.  Need to do some calculations to be sure, but...

EDIT OF MY EDIT - Considering that the existing motor can just barely swing the arm now, it is no wonder that tip speed is not reaching 10 m/s.  The tip is basically just falling 1 meter from its peak, with barely any help from the motor.  A 1 meter fall only gives a speed of 4.4 m/s.  Must have bigger motor with more torque.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on May 24, 2019, 05:24:32 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 24, 2019, 05:30:14 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 24, 2019, 05:31:35 PM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)

Unless this is the next meta game  :really_makes_you_think: heck
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 25, 2019, 07:48:22 AM
Another fun discovery: attacking pieces that have fallen off a robot still deal damage.

To the robot the piece fell off from?!  That is completely unintended and hilarious. :)

Unless this is the next meta game  :really_makes_you_think: heck

As much as protecting your fallen bits seems like a cool mechanic, its fixed.

Wah wuh. :ermm:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on May 28, 2019, 10:58:34 AM
Small tip for laptop users
Ctrl+Mouse/trackpad movement = Camera roataes
Shift+Mouse/trackpad movement = Camera zooms in/out
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 28, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
An actioncam by default wouldn't hurt the game
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Merrick on May 28, 2019, 04:30:39 PM
Is there a building tutorial knocking about somewhere that I'm missing? Can't get my head around the workshop at times.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
Not really.  Its mostly tribal knowledge right now, as we have been actively changing a lot of things for the past year.

In general:

1. Design a chassis.
2. Add motors.
3. Stick stuff onto motors.
4. Set up your controls for the motors.  You probably need to have at least one "Left" and at least one "Right".  The other thing that we've found is that you need to click the "Reverse Direction" on each motor.  This is something we still need to sort out.

What are you trying to build?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:13:20 PM
Is there anyone here who has judged a robot combat event?  We just had our post-Bugglebots debrief and we were talking about how to do scoring in game.

Damage - Already done, we just need to display it
Aggression - Compute dot product of velocity vector and normalized displacement to other robot.  The result should give the amount of time that a robot is driving toward its opponent.
Control - ???

How does one measure "control"?  This one is super-duper subjective.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 05:17:28 PM
Sup guys, just tried to build a ?BW? in the new build.

Some issues I have is with component vs chassis scaling vs movement on the grid scaling. They all seem to want to not co-operate. Right now I'm thinking the wheels & batteries are the issue with component scaling and making something on the grid that is small enough and detailed enough is proving quite difficult, even with the scaling tool.

Other things I had an issue with is the drive. Now it just is sluggish, not sure if thats a change you've made to the beefier motors to accommodate for the BW motors but it seems to lack torque and results in poor turning speed.

Damage itself is really whacky. I've had bumping into spinners only to have the spinning disc fall of on the spinning bot. Quite funny ngl

Here's the attemped BW in reference to my scaling concern
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 05:21:05 PM
Is there anyone here who has judged a robot combat event?  We just had our post-Bugglebots debrief and we were talking about how to do scoring in game.

Damage - Already done, we just need to display it
Aggression - Compute dot product of velocity vector and normalized displacement to other robot.  The result should give the amount of time that a robot is driving toward its opponent.
Control - ???

How does one measure "control"?  This one is super-duper subjective.  Any thoughts?

A lot of the people here have ran Ra2 tournaments (Like Apex: Elite Series (https://gametechmods.com/forums/brackets-vids-and-awards/apex-elite-series/) heck).

For myself I'd suggest looking at the time one bot has been underneath or at the side/rear of the opponent. Providing a delay before giving the points to prevent stuff like turning oddly, etc.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 28, 2019, 05:22:24 PM
For Control, I'd say something like:

a) You gain Control points for pushing your opponent across the arena, especially if you push them into hazards.
b) You lose Control points for every X milliseconds that your wheels aren't touching the ground. So things like getting flipped, recoiling backwards from a big spinner hit, Mauler-dancing, or getting lifted by a Complete Control-style clampbot would lose you points.
c) You lose Control points for driving into hazards. That's obviously bad driving.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:24:38 PM
Getting the smaller weight classes feeling good is going to be my focus over the next week or so.  In the current build, we are using the same drive system that has worked okay for heavyweights.  It doesn’t work for beetleweights.  I have a new drive system in mind that should be super smooth and responsive for all weight classes.  I tested an early prototype a few months ago that showed promise.  I’m confident I can get it working.  It will just take a little time.

@tashic is on the scaling issues.

Also, we don’t have small batteries or ESCs yet.  I have been leaving those out when I build a robot in game.  They will come!  I promise!  My target date for these is the beginning of September, as that is when I need to explain to my students what an ESC is, and why you need them in your robot.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Tashic on May 28, 2019, 05:35:41 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 05:41:09 PM
*sheepish*

Thank you for the reminder about the RA2 tournaments.  I feel like a dunce. 🙂

Good suggestions regarding control.  They should be easy enough to implement.  Should a control score start at zero and be able to go negative?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:03:22 PM
Yes, it should be able to go into the negatives, but I would put a limit on how far into the negatives it can go.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Hoppin on May 28, 2019, 06:06:04 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.

Yea, absolutely.
Given how small the BWs tend to be to build. I've found the grid lacks the support for these small sizes. Often rounding up to the nearest number. It results in it being really difficult imo to make detailed and accurate bots. This, on top of the lack of wheel & battery support makes building at the weightclass really awkward and overall lacking
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:12:32 PM
One thought is to do something like a sideways stacked bar graph that is constantly updated throughout the fight.  Image that there were 4 robots, "A", "B", "C", "D"

Damage: AABBBBBBBBBBBCCCDDDD
Control:  AAAAAAAAAAAABBCCCDDD
Aggression: AAAAAAAABBBBBCCCDDDD

In this case, B did the most damage, but A wins on control and aggression.

Too complicated?

The original "Robot Rumble" AirConsole game just had a pip for each robot.  Whoever's pip was on the top had the current highest score, and the pips would constantly swap throughout the fight.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:14:26 PM
@Hoppin, what exactly is giving you problems with scaling?
 I can look into it if you can give me more details.

Yea, absolutely.
Given how small the BWs tend to be to build. I've found the grid lacks the support for these small sizes. Often rounding up to the nearest number. It results in it being really difficult imo to make detailed and accurate bots. This, on top of the lack of wheel & battery support makes building at the weightclass really awkward and overall lacking
You are able to adjust the grid size on the left hand side.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 28, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
If you choose to judge controll by tge time wheels have touched the ground keep in mind that there are walkers also no wheels at all. Also bots like pussycat have wheels not touching the ground on purpose
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
If you choose to judge controll by tge time wheels have touched the ground keep in mind that there are walkers also no wheels at all. Also bots like pussycat have wheels not touching the ground on purpose

Perhaps a robot is "being controlled" if it is losing a driving battle:

The "controlling robot" is giving driving inputs in a direction, and the "controlled robot" is moving in that direction instead of the direction it is trying to move in.

"Driving Direction" = the direction the robot is facing * its "drive" signal
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:26:13 PM
Or even simpler: A robot gains control points by moving in the same or opposite direction it is facing, and loses points by moving in a direction perpendicular to the direction it is facing.

A stationary robot doesn't gain or lose control points.

This approach would favor driving at an enemy or away from an enemy, and would penalized getting shoved sideways.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Billy5545 on May 28, 2019, 06:29:28 PM
Idk what to feel about the in built JD system in game tbh
 I think I still prefer the one where people made it themself as on any other robot combat game before RR2. Also for aggression, is it basically tied with control, or will you take other factor into consideration, like the controlled bot trying to force itself against the opponent even if being controlled, or trying to use their weapon, like bringing down their saw into the opponent?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:33:09 PM
Idk what to feel about the in built JD system in game tbh
 I think I still prefer the one where people made it themself as on any other robot combat game before RR2. Also for aggression, is it basically tied with control, or will you take other factor into consideration, like the controlled bot trying to force itself against the opponent even if being controlled, or trying to use their weapon, like bringing down their saw into the opponent?

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "JD" stand for?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:33:50 PM
Judges decision
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:37:00 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:39:31 PM
Judges decision

Ah!  Thanks!

I think we need a scoring system for 2 primary reasons:

1. It is a way to build tension and excitement as you see one robot pulling ahead of another.
2. In single player or AI vs AI games, it is needed to determine the outcome of non-KO fights.

For me, the best part of the original Robot Rumble was watching the pips move as someone went on a particularly long scoring run, upsetting the leader.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 28, 2019, 06:40:17 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?

We are going to be making some massive breaking changes over the next few months...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 28, 2019, 06:49:25 PM
Judges decision

Ah!  Thanks!

I think we need a scoring system for 2 primary reasons:

1. It is a way to build tension and excitement as you see one robot pulling ahead of another.
2. In single player or AI vs AI games, it is needed to determine the outcome of non-KO fights.

For me, the best part of the original Robot Rumble was watching the pips move as someone went on a particularly long scoring run, upsetting the leader.
I would 100% agree with you on that. It can make matches more competitive throughout, and if you don't agree with the decision that the Com made, you can always just ignore it.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on May 28, 2019, 07:22:14 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?
The current botm has RR2 as part of the Custom category.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on May 29, 2019, 02:51:00 AM
How would this count for meltibrainspinners tho?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on May 29, 2019, 05:19:11 AM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: CodeSilver23 on May 29, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
Should we have a BOTM for rr2?

Up to you guys.  Do you feel like the game is mature enough?
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
That should definitely be something to add in the next build. I could see some cool stuff coming from that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on May 31, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
I think the one thing missing - and I keep forgetting to bring this up - is some sort of "green-screen" function, so we can take screenshots of our robots in front of a blank background, like we can do in RA2. Once we have that, we can start making proper splashes for our RR2 builds.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, could be just a "Greenscreen" toggle in the Bot Lab that replaces the workshop background with a solid colour.
That should definitely be something to add in the next build. I could see some cool stuff coming from that.

I like it too.  I will put it on the Trello list.  We have a bunch of high priority stuff happening right now (new driving system, flippers), but we can probably squeeze in a button to disable the renderers for everything except the robot in the workshop.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:14:11 PM
A quick teaser for the next build:

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:17:46 PM
 Here’s Phönix with the new belt drive system:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:22:48 PM
Oh yeah.  Spinner high speed blur is now a thing too.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Thyrus on July 05, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
Neat. Will you be able to customize the lenght of the belt or is it preset like in DSL?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 12:55:42 PM
Neat. Will you be able to customize the lenght of the belt or is it preset like in DSL?

Good question.  See the red, green, and blue control handles?  You can pull the secondary pulley around and it will stretch the belt automatically to adapt to the new position. 

The pulley workflow goes as follows:
1. Place a motor.
2. Attach a pulley to the shaft of the motor.
3. Stretch out a second pulley from the first pulley.
4. Attach something to the shaft of the second pulley.
5. Test the motor/pulley system and adjust the pulley size ratio as necessary for the appropriate torque/speed.

With this system you should be able to create either a high speed spinner or a high torque lifting arm.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Guldenflame on July 05, 2019, 01:18:12 PM
Question:
How will belts take damage?  Ideally, the belt falls off and the attached components just sit there unpowered.
Otherwise, I'm really hyped for this.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 01:47:34 PM
That should be nice and simple.  Just need to come up with a convincing visual for a thrown or snapped belt.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 01:53:00 PM
Not gonna lie, I was really hoping for some sort of belt drive and you guys have more than delivered once again! Cannot wait for the next build!

Out of curiosity - can the pulley system be 'doubled up' to potentially create two shafts powered by one motor? (For example, two wheels powered by the one motor)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 02:04:53 PM
I believe so, but we would need to check with @tashic.  I’m not in front of the computer now, but I can try when I get home.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 05, 2019, 02:06:42 PM
Nice! A new build incoming! That belt drive should make it a lot easier to build spinners than it currently is. Any other changes we can look forward to?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 02:35:35 PM
Nice! A new build incoming! That belt drive should make it a lot easier to build spinners than it currently is. Any other changes we can look forward to?

1. Driving.  Everything has to drive well and believably, from beetleweights to lightweights, to heavyweights.  Botlab and premade robots.  Its been a challenge to get everything working well across all of the weight ranges, particularly with spinners that aren’t quite balanced that throw robots into a wobble.  My first priority on this build is to clean everything up and make everything drive well.

2. Now that the spinner blur works, I can finally get to a proper kinetic energy-based damage system that doesn’t rely on the existing physics system.  It was a big challenge to compute the volume of revolution for a user-defined weapon, but it should make it possible for you do use something like the Spinner Damage Excel spreadsheet http://www.brjackets.com/robotics/files/spinner%20spreadsheet.xls (http://www.brjackets.com/robotics/files/spinner%20spreadsheet.xls) to compute weapon energy for use in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 03:53:01 PM
Not gonna lie, I was really hoping for some sort of belt drive and you guys have more than delivered once again! Cannot wait for the next build!

Out of curiosity - can the pulley system be 'doubled up' to potentially create two shafts powered by one motor? (For example, two wheels powered by the one motor)

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

 

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 04:11:10 PM

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?


Not quite... I was thinking more along the lines of how a lot of four wheel drive robots work, with two motors connected to two sets of belt systems, in turn powering four wheels in parallels of two. (I could draw up a quick diagram if that helps??)

I love seeing what you did there though! It's gonna be perfect for drum spinners and dual vertical spinners!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 04:14:45 PM

Its a little impractical, but is something like this what you had in mind?


Not quite... I was thinking more along the lines of how a lot of four wheel drive robots work, with two motors connected to two sets of belt systems, in turn powering four wheels in parallels of two. (I could draw up a quick diagram if that helps??)

I love seeing what you did there though! It's gonna be perfect for drum spinners and dual vertical spinners!

Gotcha!  Here's the BattleKits Middle Weight configuration:

http://www.battlekits.com (http://www.battlekits.com)

I just tried it, and the system isn't set up to do that yet, but @tashic tells me that it is on his list of things to make work.

In this version, if a pulley is attached, it can be the only thing attached to a motor.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 05, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
Yes! Exactly like those! (Apologies - work has been a stress fest this week; my mind is barely hanging on at this point haha!)

Ah I see no problem! I was only asking out of curiosity haha! Still living for what you've displayed though, your entire team and you are doing an AMAZING job!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 05, 2019, 05:45:57 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 05:48:01 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 09:31:03 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 05, 2019, 09:39:05 PM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 06:01:05 AM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
yeah, as current motors are not Hori spinner friendly
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 11:27:57 AM
Would like something like this
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/486231999548358681/596833925804982295/unknown.png)
Illustration 100 fellas

I’ll give it a shot tonight.  :smile:

I just thought about it a little more, and it looks like you are looking for a crown gear or bevel gear.  No way to do that, and we hadn’t really planned on it...

You might be able to accomplish the same space-saving effect with a pancake motor though.  We can pretty easily put a flatter motor in the game.
yeah, as current motors are not Hori spinner friendly

Agreed.  I try to put together a shorter motor or two this week.  Anyone have any preference for weapon motors?  I am looking at something Etek-compatible currently.  At a minimum I should be able to come up with a mock-up of the right dimensions, weight, and motor characteristics.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 11:36:19 AM
Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 06, 2019, 11:46:53 AM
Anyone have any preference for weapon motors?  I am looking at something Etek-compatible currently.  At a minimum I should be able to come up with a mock-up of the right dimensions, weight, and motor characteristics.
Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?

Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
IIRC, they're about the same diameter as an Etek, but slightly thinner. Storm 2 used LEMs as drive motors at one point, but they're heavy enough that you'd need WhammetNuht's system of "one motor powering two/three wheels" for them to be practical in an RR2 rammer.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 06, 2019, 11:51:35 AM
Arent LEM motors thin and wide? Idk if they are drive motors tho
IIRC, they're about the same diameter as an Etek, but slightly thinner. Storm 2 used LEMs as drive motors at one point, but they're heavy enough that you'd need WhammetNuht's system of "one motor powering two/three wheels" for them to be practical in an RR2 rammer.
Just looked up lems. I thought they were actually huge, but i see they have variety. Nice
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 12:30:00 PM

Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?


Will do.

You are correct about the reason for not putting specs in the description.  Up until now I have been fudging numbers all over the place to get everything to work.  Now that the spinner blur is functional, it is possible to simulate real-life speeds.  A motor spins a bar at 3000 RPM?  No problem.  The question now becomes which specs to include.  Do we got full on simulation, with Kv values, or do we just do something simple like power at rated voltage?  What about torque?  Weapon tip speed at full spin-up?  Kinetic energy?

Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: F1Krazy on July 06, 2019, 01:50:16 PM

Just a nice variety of shapes, sizes, and power levels, rather than the two (plus BW motor) that we have currently. Etek and pancake motors would be nice, maybe also an R-shaped one like the TWM3R in DSL. NPCs, too, maybe?

Also, just a small thing, but would it be possible to put the motors' performance stats (like horsepower and torque) in their descriptions? Or are you going to wait until their stats have been finalised before doing something like that?


Will do.

You are correct about the reason for not putting specs in the description.  Up until now I have been fudging numbers all over the place to get everything to work.  Now that the spinner blur is functional, it is possible to simulate real-life speeds.  A motor spins a bar at 3000 RPM?  No problem.  The question now becomes which specs to include.  Do we got full on simulation, with Kv values, or do we just do something simple like power at rated voltage?  What about torque?  Weapon tip speed at full spin-up?  Kinetic energy?

Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 06, 2019, 04:02:24 PM
Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?

That’s on my list for Monday.  I was thinking of adding a “wheel” tag to wheels so that it knows to not consider a wheel a weapon if the wheel is properly attached to the motor or pulley.

Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 02:16:35 PM
Maybe there is a kinetic energy, RPM, and tip speed meter in the test cage that allows you to see the numbers as you spin up, just like you would have when bench-testing a real robot?
Oooh, that'd be handy. We'd potentially then be able to set tip speed limits for tournaments, like Extreme Robots and (IIRC) Battlebots have. Might help balance out the meta a bit. How would you differentiate between weapon motors and drive motors for those meters, though?

That’s on my list for Monday.  I was thinking of adding a “wheel” tag to wheels so that it knows to not consider a wheel a weapon if the wheel is properly attached to the motor or pulley.

How about this?  :smile:

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 02:52:26 PM
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 09, 2019, 07:14:56 PM
Hey guys.  Another free public alpha is coming out by the beginning of next week.  For this build:

1. Massive spinner update.
2. Pulleys.
3. Flippers.

We have reworked physics so that everything is energy-based.  As shown in the GIF above, you can get a handy realtime readout of your spinner’s energy in the test cage.  This should be handy if you are using the game to prototype designs for your real-life robots.  My plan is to use energy for damage too, but I’m not sure if that will be ready for this build.

Not shown in the GIF: The theoretical maximum kinetic energy for a spinner will be displayed too, if you want to design a tournament with energy limits.  It is also handy to see how much your design is losing to friction.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on July 09, 2019, 07:32:38 PM
I'm insanely hyped for this!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:07:08 AM
This game is so cool! It is like RA3, but every mistake has been fixed. (those were a lot of mistakes)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 10, 2019, 09:07:53 AM
Hey guys.  Another free public alpha is coming out by the beginning of next week.  For this build:

1. Massive spinner update.
2. Pulleys.
3. Flippers.

We have reworked physics so that everything is energy-based.  As shown in the GIF above, you can get a handy realtime readout of your spinner’s energy in the test cage.  This should be handy if you are using the game to prototype designs for your real-life robots.  My plan is to use energy for damage too, but I’m not sure if that will be ready for this build.

Not shown in the GIF: The theoretical maximum kinetic energy for a spinner will be displayed too, if you want to design a tournament with energy limits.  It is also handy to see how much your design is losing to friction.
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:10:28 AM
(http://Insert Attachment0)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:11:41 AM
Ok, I'm not very good at posting images
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:22:35 AM
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff

I'll do my best. 

Drive: Reworking spinners required reworking drive as well.  Unity physics doesn't like it when you throw big heavy masses around at anything more than a few hundred RPM.  Spinners can now go 8,000+ RPM, so I had to adjust the dynamics so that Unity stays happy.  I didn't have to go completely back to the drawing board with drive, but drive required a TON of tweaks.  Hopefully it is pretty close to where it needs to be.

Damage: I haven't addressed damage yet.  I'm hoping to do that over the next few days.  My goal this fall is to completely rethink how damage is done, moving away from hit points to a more realistic system of ripping, puncturing, and breaking.  If you tap a motor with a high energy spinner, that motor should break.  The idea is that you protect your motors with armor that someone needs to break off / puncture to get to the sensitive bits inside.

Update: I'm working on spinner "bite" right now.  The idea is that if you make something that spins too fast and/or come at an opponent too slowly, the spinner won't get any bite, and it will just bounce of the opponent instead without releasing much kinetic energy.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
Ok, I'm not very good at posting images

No worries!  I just figured it out recently too.  You just need to hit "(Insert Attachment 0)" to add the attachment inside of the post.  I think you can only do it on the original post though.  I haven't figured out how to move the image to the body of the post after the fact.

Nice mockup!  We don't have a gearing system built yet, but you might want to use chain drive once the update comes out!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 10, 2019, 09:30:01 AM
Hopefully the drive and damage isnt broken so i can continue with hosting stuff

I'll do my best. 

Drive: Reworking spinners required reworking drive as well.  Unity physics doesn't like it when you throw big heavy masses around at anything more than a few hundred RPM.  Spinners can now go 8,000+ RPM, so I had to adjust the dynamics so that Unity stays happy.  I didn't have to go completely back to the drawing board with drive, but drive required a TON of tweaks.  Hopefully it is pretty close to where it needs to be.

Damage: I haven't addressed damage yet.  I'm hoping to do that over the next few days.  My goal this fall is to completely rethink how damage is done, moving away from hit points to a more realistic system of ripping, puncturing, and breaking.  If you tap a motor with a high energy spinner, that motor should break.  The idea is that you protect your motors with armor that someone needs to break off / puncture to get to the sensitive bits inside.

Update: I'm working on spinner "bite" right now.  The idea is that if you make something that spins too fast and/or come at an opponent too slowly, the spinner won't get any bite, and it will just bounce of the opponent instead without releasing much kinetic energy.
Well... now I know, what I will do the next few weeks :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 10, 2019, 09:31:06 AM
This game is so cool! It is like RA3, but every mistake has been fixed. (those were a lot of mistakes)

Not every mistake!

We still need to get rid of component clipping (i.e. make sure you can't place motors inside of other motors).  Anything else?

Plus, I would like to say that our physics is a touch more involved. :)
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Badger on July 10, 2019, 02:48:08 PM
I stopped following this for a short while, but this new update sounds super interesting. I'm looking forward to playtesting it!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 11, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Glancing blows are now a thing for spinners.  To deliver blows with maximum force you need to position yourself to give your bar maximum bite.  Upward vertical spinners should behave very differently from downward spinners.  If your spinner is out of balance, it will wobble, and you will see that it won't be able to get up to as high RPM in the test cage telemetry screen.

If I get around to it, I'm thinking of building a spinner "bite" analyzer that will reward good spinner design.  Not there yet.  At the moment, an 8-sided drum, a 1-toothed drum, and a symmetrical bar all have the same bite.  Maybe that's good enough.  Dunno.

Here's a screenshot showing the difference between a glancing blow and a direct hit.  All of these blows were delivered with a weapon spinning at around 990 RPM.

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 12, 2019, 07:04:26 AM
This game keeps getting better with every day
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 12, 2019, 04:05:36 PM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 03:14:39 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: [cringey name goes here] on July 13, 2019, 05:54:52 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 13, 2019, 07:39:18 AM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Ah so deep six clones are gonna be a hassle to make
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: WhamettNuht on July 13, 2019, 08:01:45 AM
I noticed you’ve included flippers in the next build. Out of interest -  is the same damage physics rules that’s been built for the spinners going to apply to flippers? (E.g, the kinetic force from both being launched and hitting the ground at greater speeds = more damage?). I feel like that’s something which RA2 was definitely missing, hence why the only real competitive ‘flippers’ where the pop-ups.

Cannot wait for the new build!!!
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 08:56:16 AM
Spinner air drag is now a thing.  Air drag is computed based on the speed and geometry of the spinner.  It is really hard to make a big spinner go super fast now.
Ah so deep six clones are gonna be a hassle to make

Should be totally doable!  I haven't tried yet though.

I was just referring to the fact that it will be hard/impossible to make a 1 meter diameter spinner go 8000 RPM.  All of this depends on tweaking of the air drag coefficients on my end. I'm struggling to find real-world data to calibrate my numbers.

Here's a 0.45 meter radius spinner that gets close to 1600 RPM with a 2.4:1 pulley gear ratio:

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:02:04 AM
I noticed you’ve included flippers in the next build. Out of interest -  is the same damage physics rules that’s been built for the spinners going to apply to flippers? (E.g, the kinetic force from both being launched and hitting the ground at greater speeds = more damage?). I feel like that’s something which RA2 was definitely missing, hence why the only real competitive ‘flippers’ where the pop-ups.

Cannot wait for the new build!!!

I haven't made any changes to damage in this build.  Everything is computed just as before, but driving and spinning things have different masses and speeds, so old robots won't behave the same.

To be honest, I haven't begun to do any flipper torque, speed, or energy calculations, so what you see for flippers is going to be pretty rough.  Flippers flip, and that is about all you can say about them at this point.

Damage is a whole 'nuther ballgame.  I want to get movement, speeds, energies, and forces working correctly before trying to tackle the visuals and mechanics of damage.  I would LOVE to get rid of hit points entirely.  It is going to take some serious work though.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 09:14:47 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
What I mean is, that it would be cool to say: This spinner is not allowed to spin faster than 2000 rpm. I just noticed, that this will be possible to do by changing the pulley gear ratio.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:17:33 AM
CALLING ALL ENGINEERS!

I'm looking for data on the following:

1. Energy required to puncture different thicknesses of common armor materials: UHMW, Polycarbonate, 6061-T6 aluminum, mild steel, hardened steel, titanium.  Am I missing any?  We are looking to cover beetleweights, featherweights, lightweights, and heavyweights.

2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

If you have access to equipment to do some testing, or know of good resources for the above, please post them here!

PS - Do we have any Robot Wars/Robogames/Battlebots competitors in the crowd?  It would be nice to get some real-world quantitative and qualitative data from the heavier weight classes.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 09:21:25 AM
It would be cool to have an option, where you can turn a spinner down. This will be very useful, if you want to build replicas.
what do you mean by that
What I mean is, that it would be cool to say: This spinner is not allowed to spin faster than 2000 rpm. I just noticed, that this will be possible to do by changing the pulley gear ratio.

Absolutely!  Gearing down weapons is almost mandatory for a few reasons.  First, physics tends to get a little unstable at ultra-high RPM.  Second, a super-fast spinner gets very little bite.

I'm trying to get things to real-world speeds.  We will need something like an 8" diameter Motenergy 0708 motor.  Not sure about the specs on the custom motor that Carbide used...
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: Wambo on July 13, 2019, 09:28:28 AM
CALLING ALL ENGINEERS!

I'm looking for data on the following:

1. Energy required to puncture different thicknesses of common armor materials: UHMW, Polycarbonate, 6061-T6 aluminum, mild steel, hardened steel, titanium.  Am I missing any?  We are looking to cover beetleweights, featherweights, lightweights, and heavyweights.

2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

If you have access to equipment to do some testing, or know of good resources for the above, please post them here!

PS - Do we have any Robot Wars/Robogames/Battlebots competitors in the crowd?  It would be nice to get some real-world quantitative and qualitative data from the heavier weight classes.
Sorry, I have no Idea, but I thought, that you were doing some stuff with the TR2 team and team Shock. Maybe they can help.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: kix on July 13, 2019, 10:16:05 AM
Somebody (his gtm name) is the guy who made HUGE
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 11:02:10 AM
Somebody (his gtm name) is the guy who made HUGE

Nice!  I’ve been looking at Huge’s use of plastic and trying to wrap my head around how to do that.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: 8bean on July 13, 2019, 03:16:22 PM
2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

not sure if this is what you're looking for but its got a lot of useful info on it and is really easy to use
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 13, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
2. Rated speed (based on motor kV) vs measured speed of bar spinners, drum spinners.

not sure if this is what you're looking for but its got a lot of useful info on it and is really easy to use
  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Nice!  I’ve been using this the past few days to check the numbers in-game.  The big thing that is missing here is air drag.  That’s why I was wondering if anyone has real performance data that we could use for improving the model.
Title: Re: Robot Rumble 2.0 - Robot Combat Simulator - Under Development
Post by: cjbruce on July 15, 2019, 03:24:43 PM
Woohoo!  We just got permission to put Motenergy motors in the game!

Coming soon: the Motenergy 0708!

Now people can build proper Last Rites replicas!