gametechmods

Robot Arena => Showcases => DSL TC Showcases => Topic started by: Unreal on February 24, 2012, 05:07:41 PM

Title: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 24, 2012, 05:07:41 PM
This is my first RA2DSL2.1 robot: Scorpion

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/FrontA.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/FrontB.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/AftandTop.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/InsideA.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/InsideB.png)

Reasonably pleased with the robot, performed fairly well except against spinners.

Final results before retirement:

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/ScorpionCareerResults.png)

Any thoughts welcome :)
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Mr. AS on February 24, 2012, 05:12:14 PM
trade out those omni connectors for multiextenders

also, weight + armor?
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Unreal on February 24, 2012, 05:14:51 PM
Weight 382/Middleweith 1mm titanium.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: GoldenFox93 on February 24, 2012, 05:18:10 PM
1mm armour is a bit thin- you'll be better off with 3mm plastic, I think.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Badnik96 on February 24, 2012, 05:18:44 PM
Looks cool. You definitely joined at the right time, right now that sort if building is the cool thing to do. This time last year everyone would be like "OMG dat bot sux make it a box of NPCFs and MOAR RAZORZ". XD Now the style is to make things that could be seen IRL (In Real Life) and that definitely could be seen IRL :D

Also did you try replacing the mace with a Lightning Spike or an Iron Spike? Would look cooler and be more effective.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Unreal on February 24, 2012, 05:24:24 PM
Yeah I know what you mean, I much prefer to build realistic robots, I can't help it, when I design a robot (been designing for a week or so now) I think like I was making a robot for Robot Wars almost instinctively.

I looked at the spike but I felt in real life a spike wouldn't do much damage compared to a mace.


The biggest problem I had was getting a component that would rotate from one fixed angle to another on an axis, but not in a burst fashion. I wanted to make the tail move back or forward at will but I had to settle for the burst motor. Is there a component that does that?

If I had something like that I think I would have tried to make some scorpion claws as well rotating in from the side.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: GoldenFox93 on February 24, 2012, 05:25:58 PM
Yeah I know what you mean, I much prefer to build realistic robots, I can't help it, when I design a robot (been designing for a week or so now) I think like I was making a robot for Robot Wars almost instinctively.
That's exactly the big thing at the moment- IRL building, so definitely a good time to join    :approve:
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: martymidget on February 24, 2012, 05:27:35 PM
Ahh, another IRL builder. Better not give any advice then :P

The biggest problem I had was getting a component that would rotate from one fixed angle to another on an axis, but not in a burst fashion. I wanted to make the tail move back or forward at will but I had to settle for the burst motor. Is there a component that does that?

For that you might want to try a servo. May not achieve what you desire though. You probably also need an ant battery or two.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Reier on February 24, 2012, 05:29:40 PM
Hahah I like it

Not very combat effective, but cute nonetheless.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Badnik96 on February 24, 2012, 05:32:04 PM
Oh yeah, one Battlepack for that is pretty underpowered. As a rule of thumb, you need one Ant Battery per spin motor.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: cephalopod on February 24, 2012, 05:35:10 PM
Yeah, a servo is your best bet but they don't do between 2 fixed points, instead they're a motor, however whatever's attached doesn't fall due to gravity like on other motors, so you achieve nice controlled rotation that stops when you release the button. I think that's an acceptable definition..
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: NFX on February 24, 2012, 05:45:37 PM
Looks quite funky, but it'll not be up to much in combat. If that's what you're going for, though, making realistic designs as opposed to pure combat-effective ones, then there's quite a buzz about that at the moment. =) As a general rule of thumb, though, if you place aesthetics above efficiency, then you'll end up with a good IRL bot.

That's not to say you can't use effective components for it, though. For instance, the Omni Connectors could be easily replaced by Multi Extenders, saving you 14kg. Plus, it'll be inside the chassis, and nobody will see it, so it doesn't really matter if it doesn't look as cool. If you take a look through the Battlebots tournaments, Blades of Fury, and a few showcases such as Thyrus's, dragonsteincoles, Scrap Daddy's and mine, you'll find some pretty good examples of IRL bots that can be built. =) A good skin really does wonders for an IRL bot, in my view.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Pwnator on February 24, 2012, 08:46:49 PM
IT'S SO CUTE I'M GONNA EXPLO-*boom*

What they said, yadda yadda yadda, and the drill system seems to be out-of-place, though.
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Scorpion on February 24, 2012, 09:05:39 PM
Nice name
Title: Re: First Robot!
Post by: Unreal on February 25, 2012, 03:07:20 AM
Thanks for the advice people, keep it coming. When it comes to making bots I normally get an initial idea, I wonder if I could do such and such..., then I see if I can build it. Thats the buzz for me in this game. I'll be interested to see what happens if I try to build the most effective battle robot I can, can't see that happening for a while as trying to build mad cap ideas is more fun.

(http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_500257167_1_92_67_0_/professor-farnsworth.jpg)
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Unreal on February 25, 2012, 05:50:45 AM
This is my abortive attempt to make a hexapod:

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Static.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Motion2.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Motion1.png)

This is as far as I got before I realised that the servo couldn't take the weight of the bot, and after a couple of steps the legs would splay out and the bot would collapse  :laughing

I was wondering if anyone has made a successful walker bot before (legs only no wheels)?
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: ty4er on February 25, 2012, 05:53:21 AM
well scrap daddy's goliath beetle comes close.

nice idea though
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: NFX on February 25, 2012, 05:56:56 AM
There's a couple up on YouTube, but the mechanics of a walker simply don't work in the game. RA2 locks physics in a room and then farts in it, basically. In our circles, a walker is classed as a robot that moves without using wheels or weapons, so you could have drum components, hexplates, 40cm skirts and so forth. If you use weapons as a means of propulsion, such as sawblades or maces on a disc, that's called a Crawler.

As for this one, I think you could do with some extra batter power in there. Try swapping the lone battlepack for 16 ants. A BSG needs two and a half ants for maximum power, but a servo needs none, strangely.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: ty4er on February 25, 2012, 05:58:47 AM
iirc a servo only uses power if there are batteries
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: MassimoV on February 25, 2012, 06:25:20 PM
Interesting. I tried doing something like that. It didnt really work, and its impossible to ai. Good concept though.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Unreal on February 25, 2012, 07:21:10 PM
New Bot: Ultraforce!

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Image1.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Image2.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Inside-Aft.png)

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/Inside-Aft2.png)

Lightweight 228.9 3mm plastic

My first attempt at a 'battle winning bot' rather than just building an idea.

Didn't perform very well, was often overpowered by the LW bots. Got a few good kills though. I didn't realise how powerful the bots are in the DSL. Especially the lightweights. I am in two minds as to whether to continue building IRL style or build DSL style to win a few more battles. I will probably do both  :claping
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: ty4er on February 26, 2012, 03:14:09 AM
that actually looks irl :P

anyway, saws are quite weak and are only used on frequency rammers or gutrippers, change it to a dsl disk and add some razors or beater bars with light ds teeth on the end on them. then go with 2wd magmotors with either hypno wheels or mini wheels. the chassis will have to be remade to be smaller of course.

as a general rule, baseplate anchors waste weight and space so swap them for multi extenders. Battle packs are2 also useless unless you are using bursts, iirc you have to have ant batteries aswell though. coplas are never used on anything more than beetleweights at a push because they are pretty weak and slow. and a blue control board is lighter than the small one for some reason so we usually use them.

look in other people's showcases to see good ideas for bots and how much weaponry you need, etc
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Naryar on February 27, 2012, 09:59:36 AM
I like your walker. The rest may be original but UGH.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Badnik96 on February 27, 2012, 04:15:00 PM
Looks OK but yeah, horizontal saws suck.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 27, 2012, 04:29:54 PM
Seems like Sonny_Resetti made a walker for BotM one time. I don't remember what month or even year, but he included a download link for it.

Even if you can build it and get the controls right, it won't work since there is apparently no such thing as friction when it comes to anything besides wheels.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Unreal on February 27, 2012, 07:18:48 PM
A flipper: Paramite (named after a creature in the classic Oddworld series).


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U1Paramite03.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U1Paramite02.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U1Paramite01.png)


Armour: 3mm P


Weight: 245.7


I'm not generally a fan of flippers but I thought it would be worth a try.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: MassimoV on February 27, 2012, 07:19:44 PM
Never seen such an unrealistic bot be so IRL.
Title: Re: Unreal's Red Wing Bots
Post by: Mr. AS on February 27, 2012, 07:22:02 PM
multiextenders > 90 degree baseplate anchors
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 27, 2012, 07:27:35 PM
Never seen such an unrealistic bot be so IRL.

Thanks... I think :D


multiextenders > 90 degree baseplate anchors


I know, many have said, but an extra 3 kg in this case doesn't make much difference. I'm just used to using them.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 27, 2012, 07:54:23 PM
Never seen such an unrealistic bot be so IRL.

Thanks... I think :D


multiextenders > 90 degree baseplate anchors


I know, many have said, but an extra 3 kg in this case doesn't make much difference. I'm just used to using them.


I hope The Ounce never wanders in here... He'll sh** himself.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: The Ounce on February 27, 2012, 10:36:45 PM
'sup

I can understand why you're so used to using baseplate anchors over multi-extenders since they're easier to use, but once you learn how to rotate extenders properly it's not so much a problem.  Plus they can make a difference because their lower mass allows you to have a smaller chassis.

You really don't need those DSL bars.  I know you're they're supposed to act as armor here, but JX motors already have a lot of hit-points on their own, and in the position they're in right now they're not doing a good job of protecting anything.

One thing that can help your flipper is to attach the burst motor higher up.  This will angle the flipper more thus make your flips more effective.

One last thing I need to say is that it's underpowered.  This will need 9 ant batteries (2 for the drive motors, 7 (or 5 if it's a small JX) for the JX motor) in order to operate at full power.  The problem is I don't see how to give it enough power without pushing it over the weight limit, so you're gonna have to take away from one system to keep it below the weight limit.  Either drop the JX to the smaller version or (if you're already using the small JX) downgrade the drive.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 27, 2012, 10:46:31 PM
I told you...
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: The Ounce on February 27, 2012, 11:11:22 PM
Since when did giving someone advice to improve their bots translate to one sh**ting themselves?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 27, 2012, 11:12:35 PM
Since when did giving someone advice to improve their bots translate to one sh**ting themselves?

Good point. Maybe I should have worded that a bit differently. :laughing
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 28, 2012, 04:39:45 AM
'sup

I can understand why you're so used to using baseplate anchors over multi-extenders since they're easier to use, but once you learn how to rotate extenders properly it's not so much a problem.  Plus they can make a difference because their lower mass allows you to have a smaller chassis.

You really don't need those DSL bars.  I know you're they're supposed to act as armor here, but JX motors already have a lot of hit-points on their own, and in the position they're in right now they're not doing a good job of protecting anything.

One thing that can help your flipper is to attach the burst motor higher up.  This will angle the flipper more thus make your flips more effective.

One last thing I need to say is that it's underpowered.  This will need 9 ant batteries (2 for the drive motors, 7 (or 5 if it's a small JX) for the JX motor) in order to operate at full power.  The problem is I don't see how to give it enough power without pushing it over the weight limit, so you're gonna have to take away from one system to keep it below the weight limit.  Either drop the JX to the smaller version or (if you're already using the small JX) downgrade the drive.

I added the DSL bars to make it look good and/or give it some character (in my mind anyway).

Thanks for the advice about the batteries tho thats useful.

Is there a guide anywhere about power/batteries? I'll have a look.

I think I'm gonna read all of the Tutorials and Tips stuff. Looks interesting. Always looking to learn more about it.


In my mind when I make a bot its about 40% how does it look, 40% how original or does it have character, 20% how combat effective is it? I'll try to make a combat bot sometimes I promise  :laughing

Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 28, 2012, 07:27:51 PM
New bot: U2


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U2Front.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U2TopLeft.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U2TopRight.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U2Interior.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U2InsideRight.png)


W: 241.7
A: 3mm S
H: 2.400001


Second attempt at a flipper. Incorporated many of the things I read this evening, also managed to get the height almost perfect which was nice  :beer:

Haven't tested it yet but I think this one can rewrite itself if flipped which is a first from my POV.

Gracias amigos.


Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Mr. AS on February 28, 2012, 07:32:55 PM
im going to take a guess and say that the burst motor is a bit underpowered
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 28, 2012, 07:33:41 PM
Chassis wedges suck...

Needs a metal hinge wedge to even be worth trying. It is also extremely underpowered.


Edit: Damn ninjas...
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 28, 2012, 08:18:02 PM
I didn't realise ONLY skirts could get under. Does anything from IRL actually work in this game? Back to the drawing board...
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Hercules on February 28, 2012, 08:35:10 PM
Large JX needs 7 ants
Small JX needs 5 ants
Bsg needs 2,5 ants
a battlepack are 2,5 btw
hope this helps
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 28, 2012, 08:39:19 PM
Thanks Hercules. I think I'm getting the hang of how you guys build bots here, going through all the tips was a big help.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Pwnator on February 29, 2012, 03:34:45 AM
Get the batteries right you've got yourself a damn nice-looking IRL flipper.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: smashysmashy on February 29, 2012, 10:14:43 AM
Am I the only one to grimace at the really slow turning speed?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Philippa on February 29, 2012, 11:41:28 AM
Am I the only one to grimace at the really slow turning speed?
No. Your drive are waaaaaaaaaaay too close together. Space them out a lot more. That and more power and youve got a nice IRL bot.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Hercules on February 29, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
Also, use the blue controlboard if you have the space cause its lighter
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Badnik96 on February 29, 2012, 12:05:46 PM
yeah rotate the motors so the wheels face outwards. Besides that it looks really nice.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 29, 2012, 02:47:58 PM
Thanks for the advice guys. New robot:


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3External.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3external2.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3Plan.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3Internal.png)


U3: VCR Vengeance.


H: .245001
W: 698.2
Independent 3 way fire control, flip proof and duel controls. I'm just saying words now.
An attempt at a poker, quite happy with it. For some reason it sounds like something out of BSG which isn't a bad thing.  :claping 




Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Mr. AS on February 29, 2012, 02:55:34 PM
why does the 3rd pic show it with pole spikes while the other show it with irons?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 29, 2012, 02:57:19 PM
Thats the first version.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on February 29, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
It's better with Irons and no Skirt Hinges. Opponents aren't going to get to the skirts anyway. I think the shape is really good, personally. I think a spike weapon that extended one end and retracted the other, similar to the Terrorhurtz axe might work quite well for this bot.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Philippa on February 29, 2012, 03:01:51 PM
why does the 3rd pic show it with pole spikes while the other show it with irons?
And plastic sheets.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: GoldenFox93 on February 29, 2012, 03:36:08 PM
Thanks for the advice guys. New robot:


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3External.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3external2.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3Plan.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U3Internal.png)


U3: VCR Vengeance.


H: .245001
W: 698.2
Independent 3 way fire control, flip proof and duel controls. I'm just saying words now.
An attempt at a poker, quite happy with it. For some reason it sounds like something out of BSG which isn't a bad thing.  :claping
You wouldn't mind if I borrowed the chassis to this, would you? I've envisioned a design for it.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 29, 2012, 03:40:41 PM
Help yourself. No problemos
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: MassimoV on February 29, 2012, 04:18:39 PM
Keep the irons. It looks cooler. It reminds me of H-Bloc by DSC.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 29, 2012, 04:36:27 PM
The one with the irons was the version I used. Does OK, but doesn't do alot of damage, but get points.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: SKBT on February 29, 2012, 04:44:05 PM
Nice dude. You've got a cool build style.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on February 29, 2012, 04:48:37 PM
Thanks SKBT. I just want to ask anyone who knows, does the AI have a handicap with regard to damage? I'm just wondering as although the spikes get points I can play 5 min matches against some bots, continuously spiking away and do no armour damage at all. What's going on with that?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on February 29, 2012, 05:49:44 PM
The AI has double strength armor for some reason.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 01, 2012, 12:13:27 AM
To be honest, I suspected something like that was going on. Is it possible to change this back to 100%?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 01, 2012, 02:55:37 AM
Fought all HW bots with VCR, bots it beat: Biohazard, Beta, Behemoth, Ronin, Overkill, Snow Job, Bad Dog, Killdozer, Veloxiraptor, Chaors 2, Minion, Tornado Mer and acquarius 2. It did quite well against the 'IRL' bots but didn't last long against alot of the others. The armour took only two or 3 hits against some of the hammers.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Naryar on March 01, 2012, 07:52:20 AM
why do you have a poker aiming in 2 opposite directions and SO MUCH PISTONS is above me.

seriously the airtanks aren't going to last more than 1min with all these pistons.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 01, 2012, 02:16:55 PM
Thats the point of the design, most of the time only either the front or the back will fire at a time, the controls are L Shift front fire, L Ctrl Rear fire and space all fire. Plus they don't have to fire all the time. And in all of the matches I have played with this bot (over 50) the CO2 has never run out which is nice :)
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 01, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
P.S. an unintended but interesting side effect of all those pistons is that they give a speed boots. So if I max the speed and then hit fire just before hitting the opponent I get a BIG hit :) which is nice.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 02, 2012, 06:47:19 PM
I am retiring the VCR Vengeance, I was going to put it through an epic gauntlet, playing every bot in almost every arena and see what happens, but I have started to get annoyed with the combat (mostly armour/impact damage) mechanics so I have decided to stop and make a new bot. Here are the final results:

Victories:

Bridge of Doom:

Scout, Red Alert, T-Minus, Biohazard, Roly Poly, Grog, the Vengeful (tie), Robot X, Matilda, Behemoth, Hammerhead Shark, Blood Runner, Wheely Big Cheese, Ninja Assassin, Samurai, Bob, Firestorm, Cleprechaun, Shredator, El Diablo, Broke!, The Boxer Returns, Ziggo, Overkill, Raving M.A.D., insanity, Hypno Disc, Panic Attack, Tip of the Iceberg, Iceberg, Snow Job, S3, Beta, Flip Jack, Lightning, Storm II, Sir Killalot, Grim Chopper, Lock Nut, Mechavore, Techno Destructo, Insande Berserker, Razorback, Complete Control, Tazbot, Razer, Mangy Mutt, Top Dog, Bad Dog, Growler, Bulldog Breed, Velociraptor, Whack!, Chaos 2, Poison Stinger, Tempest, UndeadBeat, WhirlWep, Supernova, Typhoon, Ripblade II, The Suff of Champions, Wrecktangle 2, Backlash, 259, Minion, That Damn Dustpan, Vladiator, Vlad the IMpaler, Wedge of Doom, Dominator 2, YU812, Gammaraze III, Topknot II, Scoot or Die, Triclops V2.0, AQ-Nanowhirl, AW-Terminous, BW-Microwhirl, BW-Truelove, BW-Peer Pressure, BW-Robo Killase, Apollyon, Ruiner, Buster Blade, Vertigo.

Bridge of Doom:

Scout, Second Sentinel, Biohazard, Roly Poly, Grog the Vengeful, Robot X, Matilda, Behemoth, Hammerhead Shark, Grisley Bear, Billy Bot, Wheely Big Cheese, Ninja Assassin, Bob, Firestorm, Bot 205, Cleprechaun, Shrederator, BROKE!, Ziggo, Overkill, Raving M.A.D. insanity, Tip of the Iceberg, Snow Job, Vladiator Poker, Flip Jack.



It got a few good wins, some bots got immobalised in BOD, overall the middleweights and the lightweights were the most fun to fight as most of them were strong but not rediculously invincible like the HWs. Also the damage of the weaponry on some of the heavyweights was a bit much, and I can now see why bots with actual chassis with things inside them might be actually a disadvantage, but overall I liked the AI bots, each is original and a bit different which is no mean feat, especially pon2n. Well done team DSL  :claping :claping :claping .
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 02, 2012, 07:27:58 PM
I'm trying to decide for tomorrow what type of bot I should make, but I really can't make my mind up. Anyone got any ideas?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: russian roulette on March 02, 2012, 07:58:49 PM
Try a Nightmare style vertical spinner.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 03, 2012, 11:44:36 AM
New Bot: 'Murder One'


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U4Front.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U4Back.png)


(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U4Internal.png)


10T
756HW
2x Perm 132 EL's.

My take on a vertical spinner. Made it a heavyweight which was probably a mistake though I can easily scale it down if I want to use it.


Drives like a complete loooonatic.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: MassimoV on March 03, 2012, 01:09:33 PM
I'm gonna call it Bot Out Of Hell 2.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Naryar on March 03, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
DSL bars are only preventing the bot from self-righting.

Too much batteries as well, and it can be made shorter in height.

Also pretty sure you can make this into a MW. That has MW-level weaponry, at least.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 03, 2012, 02:32:57 PM
Actually the final version with the fatboy tyres doesn't need a scremech as it is so lively it can easily write itself, also the DSL bars are there to stop the weapon from touching the ground if it gets inverted, which is also why the wheels are at the corner. You may be right about making it shorter. I may come back to this in the future.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on March 03, 2012, 02:34:00 PM
I think that'll be quite unstable with wedges like that. VS and wedges tend not to mix particularly well, especially when they become unbalanced. You don't have to worry about that much with Clep Blades, but they do have a square collision mesh (press F12 to view), so it'll be dealing less damage than you'd like to. I also think it has normals, so the one facing backwards won't be dealing much to any damage at all.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 03, 2012, 02:43:18 PM
Thanks, I've just tried to calculate the armour values, so I can better predict what a bot would weigh with the components I had in mind for it, but when I did an experiment I found the results were a bit mad:

1 square at minimum pixel height of 10mm plastic is 10.6 kg. 2 squares is 17.3 and 3 squares is 23.9. So that's me stumped. Has anyone ever found a way of calculating armour weight to some degree of accuracy?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on March 03, 2012, 02:47:59 PM
Thanks, I've just tried to calculate the armour values, so I can better predict what a bot would weigh with the components I had in mind for it, but when I did an experiment I found the results were a bit mad:

1 square at minimum pixel height of 10mm plastic is 10.6 kg. 2 squares is 17.3 and 3 squares is 23.9. So that's me stumped. Has anyone ever found a way of calculating armour weight to some degree of accuracy?

I don't think there is much way to calculate it. Though, Clickbeetle did an experiment with chassis size and found that a large chassis is actually more resistant to damage that a small chassis. This brings up the "weightwaste vs. hitpoints" issue.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 03, 2012, 02:53:16 PM
Yeah I read that, is there really no way to have a gestimate at least of the weight of armour?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on March 03, 2012, 03:10:03 PM
I go about it the other way, I start out by calculating the weight of the components, then that gives me how much weight I'd have left over for the chassis and armour. If I don't think it'll be enough, then I can recalculate which components I'd have to change and such. But if you know which "weight" the armour is, 1mm Plastic = 3, for instance, then you'd be able to divide/multiply the chassis weight you have to begin with (DSA would be 12) with the armour you want, to see if you've got enough weight left over for the components you want.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Badnik96 on March 03, 2012, 03:13:05 PM
Is it meant to be IRL?

If so I would swap the 2 clep blades for one 100cm black disc with cutting teeth.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 03, 2012, 04:36:24 PM
I have a thing where I don't like the bot to look unsymmetrical. That's why I put 2 perms in instead of one. If you notice almost all, if not all of my bots are exactly symmetrical.  :rage
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: That Robot is a Spy! on March 03, 2012, 04:43:54 PM
100 cm Discs?
Or even drums and some weapon plates.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 04, 2012, 12:20:25 PM
New robot: 'Eavy Metal



(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6EavyMetalInterior02.png)
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6EavyMetalInterior01.png)
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6EavyMetalFront.png)
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6EavyMetalAft.png)


Couldn't decide what to build so I decided I would go through every weapon in the DSL and make a middleweight robot for it. First up is Ant Blades.


Armour: 5mm steel
Weight: 397 kg


In testing vs Behemoth it took off the bucket, ripped out its front right wheel and destroyed its control unit  :beer:



Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on March 04, 2012, 12:26:00 PM
Why the srimech? You could simply add some larger wheels (Micro wheels SUCK, do avoid them as much as you can. I'd go for Minis if you need weight), and put some Robot X casters on the top or something to make the bot invertible. I did try a setup like this with a Middeweight version of The Highlander, it was surprisingly damaging, but quite laggy. Must be all the transparent bits on the sawblades.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 04, 2012, 01:11:52 PM
I just wanted to try making a srmech, also I agree these ant blades really do a good job, this is probably the most combat effective bot I've ever built, goes through most bots like a gem.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: MassimoV on March 04, 2012, 01:16:26 PM
Needs more weapons and bigger wheels to look cool.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Conraaa on March 04, 2012, 01:22:50 PM
I like it, but a few points:

1) Why not use the Tmw3r's meant for weapons?
2) Surely it would be better to have 7 ants instead?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 04, 2012, 01:28:27 PM
From what I can tell the one battle pack is more amps for its weight than two ants, though I may be wrong.  I tried the other TM's but I found it difficult to put the amount of ant blades on, and keep the body a reasonable size. I didn't want any big gaps between the ground and the blades, so this seemed the best fit. If the others had sticky up bits like these I would use them.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 04, 2012, 01:30:51 PM
Needs more weapons and bigger wheels to look cool.


The idea is to build a bot around one specific weapon type, though I may explore the wheels idea. Has been mentioned a few times now.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 05, 2012, 03:40:13 AM

(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6Murder11HowItShouldHaveLooked.png)
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6Murder1102.png)
(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w436/RA2RedWingPhotos/U6Murder1101.png)


Tried to make a vertical spinner like Backlash, this is as far as I got, when I tested it the extenders just fell through the floor.  :rage  I built it horizontally figuring it would be easier to build that way. How did they do those bots in the game?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on March 05, 2012, 04:31:10 AM
Well, most of the Nightmare-esque spinners you see people making, at least in IRL style, do start out with a horizontal chassis. The trouble is that the chassis tends to start off nearer the floor, so if you have something extender beneath it too far, that will start inside the floor. To get around this, you can either shorten the extenders, or raise the starting position, which is both extremely complicated, and works against conventionally designed bots, because they have a big drop at the start.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 05, 2012, 04:52:44 AM
The solution must be then to build at 45 degrees, I'll try it again at some point.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Naryar on March 05, 2012, 06:42:16 AM
Sawbot: Really bad weapons, too slow for a gut-ripper, wrong weapon motor choice (these are drive motors), waste of a srimech, what else ? Ah, yes, the battery setup - you really only need 6 ant batteries for that.

VS :The stabilizers are far too exposed and you aren't going to hit anything wide before losing your stabilizers. Losing your stabilizers will ruin your weapon's damage.

I'll give you props for original building, but originality alone means nothing.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 05, 2012, 07:00:15 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING. When bots start to all look the same, are all built the same, you have a very, very boring game/forum. If you actually read what I said you will see that the objective is to build a robot around each weapon, whether the weapon is good or bad. I'm not interested in making spam-bots, something that might fight well but looks like a mechano set sticking out a shoebox, only something that I might see in the real world. If you want to start criticising, and I have no problem with people expressing their opinions (though people who think everything they type is gold-dust get on my nerves), you might at least read what I said so you can see the objectives behind them. You need an attitude adjustment. I'm also starting to see why only about 7 people regularly come to this forum. How often does this place get a new member who stays more than a couple of months?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: NFX on March 05, 2012, 07:16:07 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING. When bots start to all look the same, are all built the same, you have a very, very boring game/forum. If you actually read what I said you will see that the objective is to build a robot around each weapon, whether the weapon is good or bad. I'm not interested in making spam-bots, something that might fight well but looks like a mechano set sticking out a shoebox, only something that I might see in the real world. If you want to start criticising, and I have no problem with people expressing their opinions (though people who think everything they type is gold-dust get on my nerves), you might at least read what I said so you can see the objectives behind them. You need an attitude adjustment. I'm also starting to see why only about 7 people regularly come to this forum. How often does this place get a new member who stays more than a couple of months?

I agree with this. The reason IRL building is so popular at the moment is because a) There were quite a few tournaments recently, and b) standard DSL building has almost peaked, in my view. We've explored almost every single aspect of the game, the few killer designs that there are have emerged, and the people enter those few killer designs into tournaments with the intention of winning win. Efficiency is useful in the game, granted, but the purpose of a game is to have fun. The purpose of the forum is to have fun. If you have fun by building efficiently, then do so. If you have fun by building realistic designs, then do so. We shouldn't all have to conform to the same idea of fun, he can build whatever he likes.
 
I think building it at a 45 degree angle is a bad idea, because you can only mount components directly onto, or above the baseplate. If you have a small baseplate and a long 45 degree chassis, you'll hardly be able to attach anything. If you need some more ideas for IRL bots, then I would suggest looking through Thyrus, dragonsteincole, Scrap Daddy and SKBT's showcases for some good IRL designs. Each of them have a pretty different style, and you might be able to pick up one that you like. You could take a look through my showcase as well if you like.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Gropaga on March 05, 2012, 07:24:35 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING. When bots start to all look the same, are all built the same, you have a very, very boring game/forum. If you actually read what I said you will see that the objective is to build a robot around each weapon, whether the weapon is good or bad. I'm not interested in making spam-bots, something that might fight well but looks like a mechano set sticking out a shoebox, only something that I might see in the real world. If you want to start criticising, and I have no problem with people expressing their opinions (though people who think everything they type is gold-dust get on my nerves), you might at least read what I said so you can see the objectives behind them. You need an attitude adjustment. I'm also starting to see why only about 7 people regularly come to this forum. How often does this place get a new member who stays more than a couple of months?
He said originality ALONE means nothing
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 05, 2012, 07:58:59 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING. When bots start to all look the same, are all built the same, you have a very, very boring game/forum. If you actually read what I said you will see that the objective is to build a robot around each weapon, whether the weapon is good or bad. I'm not interested in making spam-bots, something that might fight well but looks like a mechano set sticking out a shoebox, only something that I might see in the real world. If you want to start criticising, and I have no problem with people expressing their opinions (though people who think everything they type is gold-dust get on my nerves), you might at least read what I said so you can see the objectives behind them. You need an attitude adjustment. I'm also starting to see why only about 7 people regularly come to this forum. How often does this place get a new member who stays more than a couple of months?
He said originality ALONE means nothing

No he said my designs were original but originality means nothing. So he is saying that in his view the one attribute he thinks they have is worthless. Next time someone says all the work you do has no value or is of no worth see what you write. Bet you don't keep it as clean as I did.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Unreal on March 05, 2012, 08:15:00 AM
I'm finished on this forum, I'm keeping my account as there are a couple of mods I am interested in that I'd like to get when they are made, but participating on this forum has no value for time or enjoyment. I have better things to do.
Adios.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: HurricaneAndrew on March 05, 2012, 09:24:53 AM
Ragequit? Ragequit.

Hate to see you leave like this, but it's your decision.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: SKBT on March 05, 2012, 09:31:55 AM
I'm finished on this forum, I'm keeping my account as there are a couple of mods I am interested in that I'd like to get when they are made, but participating on this forum has no value for time or enjoyment. I have better things to do.
Adios.

Noooooooo I liked your style!!!!!

If you decide to come back, just ignore nary's hate comments. He's on a crusade against IRL style bots.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: 090901 on March 05, 2012, 09:46:55 AM
Good job naryar, good job...
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: ty4er on March 05, 2012, 10:07:31 AM
I'll give you props for original building, but originality alone means nothing.
anyway you just gave me an idea for building so thanks dude

and bye
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Naryar on March 05, 2012, 10:20:30 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING.

Nonsense. Let's take the ultimate example of an original bot, a bot built entirely randomly. There's a very good chance it looks like a garbled mess of components, can't drive at all, is ugly and generally useless. In both IRL and DSL. And you say originality means everything ?

Also, you want to build entirely original ? Go and check all bot pictures that have ever existed then, and do not take advice at all.

When bots start to all look the same, are all built the same, you have a very, very boring game/forum.

I fully agree with this comment. Does it necessarily means that originality means everything ? Nope.

I'm not interested in making spam-bots, something that might fight well but looks like a mechano set sticking out a shoebox, only something that I might see in the real world.

Have I said or meant you should build like in stock ? Nope. I am merely giving advice to make your bots more efficient overall.

Originality, cool looks, building skill and combat worth are the four criteria used to judge a bot. Different people tend to gravitate towards some and not others. I appreciate all of them, though especially originality, building skill and combat worth. Cool looks is like a package on a gift: it's not necessary, though it can certainly make a bot much more interesting.

And surprise, efficient building serves IRL building well, everyone ! Efficient building (even if you're not being efficient with weapons or wedges) saves weight, which means more weight to spend on cool or realistic features, which means BETTER IRL BOT.

I'm also starting to see why only about 7 people regularly come to this forum. How often does this place get a new member who stays more than a couple of months?
Enough to have a small sustainable community. Also there are certainly more than 7 regulars here.

He said originality ALONE means nothing

Yes i did.

No he said my designs were original but originality means nothing. So he is saying that in his view the one attribute he thinks they have is worthless.

You misread, maybe because you were angry at me. I said your designs were original and I gave you props for it, and I did say originality alone meant nothing.


(though people who think everything they type is gold-dust get on my nerves)
Next time someone says all the work you do has no value or is of no worth see what you write. Bet you don't keep it as clean as I did.

Is it me or does the latter quote sounds more arrogant than all what I have posted there, therefore ruining the former point ?

Also, controlling your more violent feelings on a forum is the basis of correct behavior. Nothing to be proud of here.

I'm finished on this forum, I'm keeping my account as there are a couple of mods I am interested in that I'd like to get when they are made, but participating on this forum has no value for time or enjoyment. I have better things to do.
Adios.

Leaving the forums in rage because you're not OK with a single comment in your showcase ?










Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: smashysmashy on March 05, 2012, 12:26:19 PM
Naryar and his goddamn IRL crusades....

Look, Unreal, your building style is cool, and I was starting to really enjoy what you built. Don't let Nary get on your bad side like that.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Conraaa on March 05, 2012, 12:48:53 PM
For the Vs I would put a wedge on it, swap the direction of the teeth around and run it backwards. Presuming the side with the extenders is the front. Then it would be an awesome vs/gutripper thing. :D
Wait he's gone? Bloody heck Naryar.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Philippa on March 05, 2012, 01:21:00 PM
Cheers Nary.

I really liked Unreal's bots. I thought he was a fairly decent IRL builder.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: madman3 on March 05, 2012, 01:23:22 PM
Nary's the new Inf:P

Bots were cool though, I liked the poker.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Scorpion on March 05, 2012, 01:31:20 PM
To be fair, he obviously couldn't take constructive criticism very well, or he is just quite emotional and left in a bawww fit because his feelings were hurt.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Mr. AS on March 05, 2012, 02:23:33 PM
waitwaitwait are you leaving and making a huge deal of it just because someone gave you advice to help you build more efficiently? you can have efficiency AND originality, like when crawlers (umadnary xd) and pop-ups were first made
you have little chance of improving your bot building if you dont take advice and not taking advice makes you look n00by
ps that vs doesnt have much reach
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Badnik96 on March 05, 2012, 02:48:43 PM
nooooo just when you began to show potential

We need to keep people from posting harsh comments in showcases or we will lose way too many members. wakkydude (who stopped showcasing), Unreal, who's gonna be next?
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: ty4er on March 05, 2012, 03:18:19 PM
he just overreacted badly, his fault really.

Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Hercules on March 05, 2012, 04:44:16 PM
chill, nary chill please
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Urjak on March 05, 2012, 07:38:30 PM
Wow, scaring somebody off the forums with just a single post? Bravo Naryar!

In all seriousness, a member who leaves because of one comment about their bot building has no place here showcasing bots IMO.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Sage on March 05, 2012, 08:18:17 PM
It's a showcase guys, not a courtroom. People can post what they want. If it's OBVIOUS they aren't going for super efficient, why continue to give them advice?

Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Badnik96 on March 05, 2012, 09:58:57 PM
This, this, this and this.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: R0B0SH4RK on March 06, 2012, 03:17:39 AM
Originality means EVERYTHING.

Nonsense. Let's take the ultimate example of an original bot, a bot built entirely randomly. There's a very good chance it looks like a garbled mess of components, can't drive at all, is ugly and generally useless. In both IRL and DSL. And you say originality means everything ?

Also, you want to build entirely original ? Go and check all bot pictures that have ever existed then, and do not take advice at all.


This is the straw-iest straw man I've seen in a long, long time. Randomness is not originality. Not even close. If this isn't just your hubris and you really think that there is a correlation between the randomness of a bot and it's originality... well, you're pretty much completely wrong.


The reason why we value the concept of originality here is because it's innately difficult. Truly effective original designs require infinitely more conceptual and perceptual problem solving skills and creativity than do simple efficient clones of other people's building. When we fawn over Clickbeetle, it's not because we think that he randomly mashed his keyboard until something cool came out, we admire the thought process and problem solving that he must have gone through to arrive at an original bot.


If there was no more to building than the infinite monkey theorem, then yes, your "truly original random bot" argument would make sense. But we know that this simply isn't true. Originality requires the imagination to conceptualize, the cognitive skills to perceptualize and the building skills to construct(ualize?).




It's a showcase guys, not a courtroom. People can post what they want.
 


This.


Although I disagree with the "why continue to give them advice" bit. We give advice in order to give those willing to learn the tools and abilities to become a more effective builder, not to shape them in our own molds of what we deem to be acceptable. We all have to walk before we can run though, so we have generally encouraged new members to clone. This isn't because we all hate creativity and we're some oppressive communist police state (although sometimes I wonder...), but because cloning designs is an effective way to master techniques like eFFe glitching, stacking, and axle loading.


Before Unreal ragequit - and let's be honest, you really have to be able to take some criticism here - I liked what I saw. But there is a better way to give advice than "a) is horrible, b) is horrible, c) is horrible... what else... ah yes! d) is also horrible!" Because that isn't being helpful. That's being arrogant.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Jonzu95 on March 06, 2012, 03:42:32 AM
I'm not surprised here... I've had feeling that something like this happens some day.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Scorpion on March 06, 2012, 11:07:18 AM
At the end of the day however, it is a game and it was his ability at the game that Naryar was criticising, he did not mean it personally and yet Unreal obviously took it that way.
Badnik, it would be a travesty if comments in showcases were censored simply if they could seem to be harshly critical, it would inevitably end in a bawww-fest from one of the more sensitive members to have another member punished for simply posting constructive criticism, even if said advice is only poorly communicated.
Title: Re: Unreal's Ultraforce!
Post by: Reier on March 06, 2012, 11:21:19 PM
Quit hatin on Nary guys. Yeah, he probably took this too seriously, but not even close to the level Unreal did. Geez, it's a showcase. If you don't want advice, ask not to have it, or just don't post your bots if you can't handle it. Don't go freaking out when people say their tips/opinions.
Nary didn't do anything wrong, quit overreacting, people.
If Unreal left on a trivial thing like this, then good riddance. I'm fine with him staying, but this is nuts.