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Robot Arena => Showcases => DSL TC Showcases => Topic started by: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 11:42:47 AM

Title: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 11:42:47 AM
So, I finally make a DSL showcase. 'bout time, eh?


So, I'm currently in the process of making a bot for the "Rival Rumble" tournament, and I was tasked with building a clamp. Hopefully, DG doesn't cheat and use this bot to counter mine.



[/size]
(spoilered to prevent cheating)


So, any tips to make this bot better?
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Naryar on April 10, 2016, 11:49:26 AM
Again with this...

It's not a clamp, it's a hammer. Specifically, a side hammer/vertical hammer hybrid.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Badger on April 10, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
It's not really cheating if you showcase it.

You got loads of empty space in there, and not much protection from gutrippers. and you have more than 250kg for extra weapons/drive/wedges/protection.

And it's not a clamp in the RA2 sense. Still a hammer.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Thrackerzod on April 10, 2016, 11:58:28 AM
When you're a new player, the advice gained from showcasing a bot greatly exceeds any "counter-building" that could occur.

Anyway, you're way underweight and it's still a side hammer, just now it also has a vertical hammer.  Check out Geice's bot from Pot Luck 2: https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=18491.0 (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=18491.0)
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Fracture on April 10, 2016, 12:09:27 PM
how is it not a clamp? those are the starting positions for the motors right?

the components for the arms do resemble those of a side hammer though. since the goal is to trap rather than do damage, there should be plows, armour, etc.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 12:13:59 PM
So... Because it doesn't look like a clamp, it isn't a clamp? Well, back to the drawing board, I guess. Sheesh, clamps are hard to build, looking at other clamps.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: yugitom on April 10, 2016, 12:19:04 PM
I think you should look at side hammers, too because you have definitely built a side hammer. I am genuinely surprised as to how you don't know how to build a clamp. Just look at something IRL for a better picture, like Complete Control.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Reier on April 10, 2016, 12:30:01 PM
this is an example of a clamp (https://wiki.gametechmods.com/index.php?title=Clamp)

this is a hammer (https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/41870repressivetolerance.png)
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Fracture on April 10, 2016, 12:48:12 PM
Quote from: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 12:13:59 PM
So... Because it doesn't look like a clamp, it isn't a clamp? Well, back to the drawing board, I guess. Sheesh, clamps are hard to build, looking at other clamps.
i will admit i was a bit confused too because what everyone is talking about is not what comes to mind when you say clamp (it really should have a different name)

the key part is that you need a traditional flipper system coming off a burst motor, then attach to burst #1 a vertical hammer system built using burst #2

assuming your first bot has the burst motors starting in the closed position and fire into the open position, i think in gtm terms that would be considered a crusher
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Virus Bomb on April 10, 2016, 12:50:58 PM
why does everyone think that a clamp has to be a vertical clamp a la complete control? are bots like tough as nails suddenly not clamps anymore? if those are the starting positions for the arms and the arms open up when fired then its a clamp.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Thrackerzod on April 10, 2016, 12:55:30 PM
Quote from: Virus Bomb on April 10, 2016, 12:50:58 PM
why does everyone think that a clamp has to be a vertical clamp a la complete control? are bots like tough as nails suddenly not clamps anymore? if those are the starting positions for the arms and the arms open up when fired then its a clamp.

That's what the point of the "what bot type is this" thread was.  The wiki has all of one example of a horizontal clamp, and the example is Little Metal Friend, which doesn't even work.  Horizontal clamps definitely can exist, it's just that I don't know how exactly to count it for Rival Rumble.  Vertical clamps are way more dominant, so they're easier to say "yes this is a clamp" given past examples.

Gotta say, wasn't really thinking about the fact that I'd have to judge bot types harshly and stuff to run Rival Rumble.  Wasn't my best idea.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: DeadGenocide on April 10, 2016, 12:59:18 PM
I'm pretty sure if you're making a Horizontal clamp the weapon has to be on spin motors instead of Burst motors because burst motors retract to their starting positions right after being fired which completely defeats the purpose of a clamp bot.

As for vertical clamps i'm pretty sure you just have a flipper and axe that fire at the same time.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Badger on April 10, 2016, 01:13:34 PM
Quote from: Virus Bomb on April 10, 2016, 12:50:58 PM
why does everyone think that a clamp has to be a vertical clamp a la complete control? are bots like tough as nails suddenly not clamps anymore? if those are the starting positions for the arms and the arms open up when fired then its a clamp.
Because, while that style of clamp is cool and what I think TRB is going for, it's impossible to achieve with an AI-controlled bot.

TRB, I just posted the type of clamp these people are asking for in my ironforge showcase (https://gametechmods.com/forums/index.php?topic=18417.msg698660#msg698660). I can sent you the .bot file if you want to have a closer look or still don't understand how they work.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 02:15:15 PM
So, from what I'm seeing here, is a clamp essentially a hammer/flipper hybrid?
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: DeadGenocide on April 10, 2016, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 02:15:15 PM
So, from what I'm seeing here, is a clamp essentially a hammer/flipper hybrid?

Vertical Clamps yes.

Sort of.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: 090901 on April 10, 2016, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: Badger on April 10, 2016, 01:13:34 PM
Because, while that style of clamp is cool and what I think TRB is going for, it's impossible to achieve with an AI-controlled bot.


just place a smart zone in front of where the clamp part is and that will trigger it to open and then grab onto a bot, people have done it before.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 10, 2016, 02:24:37 PM
I feel a spinning one would end up being too slow. Anyway. I've thought of an idea. If I can get away with it, I want to make a VC with a poker. If not, I'm sure I can still make a VC. Watch this space.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Badger on April 10, 2016, 02:24:55 PM
Quote from: 090901 on April 10, 2016, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: Badger on April 10, 2016, 01:13:34 PM
Because, while that style of clamp is cool and what I think TRB is going for, it's impossible to achieve with an AI-controlled bot.


just place a smart zone in front of where the clamp part is and that will trigger it to open and then grab onto a bot, people have done it before.
Doesn't work for long bots, the timing has to be perfect and if it loses grip (which it will do because burst clamps in this style are weak AF) it can't re-clamp unless the immobility countdown timer starts and both bots move away from each other.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 11, 2016, 05:35:52 AM
Right! I think I finally have this "clamp" business right!




So, any thoughts? Tips to make it a decent bot?
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Badger on April 11, 2016, 05:43:12 AM
I can't see much from that picture. The burst motor for the hammer should technically be attached to the burst motor for the flipper, else idk if it counts. Also, vertical clamps don't start closed,
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 11, 2016, 05:47:20 AM
There isn't a burst motor for the hammer. I didn't need one. Anyway, surely vertical "clamps" do start closed, otherwise they won't, you know, clamp. They'd just bash a bot into a hammer over and over.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: 09090901 on April 11, 2016, 05:48:30 AM
just import Fight or Flight or Guard Duty so you can see how vertical clamps actually work.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 11, 2016, 05:51:12 AM
So... You're saying this doesn't count as a clamp? I mean, what more could I bloody well do to make it a clamp?

Also, I've searched everywhere for both of those bots, and I cant bloody find 'em!
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: 09090901 on April 11, 2016, 06:00:36 AM
This is what a vertical clamp looks like and yes, usually they start open:
(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/398381gaurd.png)
See how there's a burst motor attached to the larger beta? When it gets under another bot, it fires both bursts. The stronger beta motor lifts up the opponent, while the weaker burst "clamps" onto the top. The end result should be something like this:

Your primary lifting burst pretty much needs to be beta as it's only motor strong enough lift bots + all the other junk. your second burst can be pretty much anything except a bsg or slow mag snapper (small JX is the best imo). just don't put too much weight on the whole system or you'll have problems lifting other robots.

Fight or Flight is in the BBEANS AI pack, and Guard Duty can found in all versions of NAR AI.

the bot your posting is some kind of flipper wammer hybrid that probably doesn't work.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Naryar on April 11, 2016, 09:19:05 AM
actually you don't need to have a hammer on a flipper ala Fight or Flight to be a clamp.

What you need to be a clamp is a bot that grabs/grapples/squeezes the enemy and controls his movement. Side hammers doesn't count, unless you invert their start/stop positions.

your last bot WOULD be a clamp, borderline. However, it doesn't have enough flipping power.

Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 11, 2016, 09:40:13 AM
It is?! Woot! Right. I'll get rid of the snapper and stick a better burst on it and send it bloody well in! Good riddance, I say!
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Naryar on April 11, 2016, 09:50:50 AM
a bad clamp is not much of a clamp. you have a huge chassis, i would use two bursts and i have no idea why you have so much weapon weight on the hammer part.
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 11, 2016, 01:27:43 PM
True, I could easily put some lighter spikes and maybe downgrade the extenders to al. (unless I already used al, then it stays because screw poly)
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: Scorpion on April 11, 2016, 06:23:09 PM
I think you should be more concerned about testing the actual weapon design and seeing if it actually works?
Title: Re: Red's DSL of tomfoolery
Post by: The Red Blur on April 12, 2016, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: Scorpion on April 11, 2016, 06:23:09 PM
I think you should be more concerned about testing the actual weapon design and seeing if it actually works?

It have, and it does. Although, as Naryar said, it definitely needs a stronger burst (or possibly two) because snappers are not good enough for lifting HW bots.
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