Author Topic: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase  (Read 67553 times)

Offline R01

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #500 on: August 08, 2016, 12:51:40 PM »
So why did you not like it? Also I'd add the front plates to your drum spinner on the top as well so it won't fall forwards if flipped. Might have to downgrade to titanium for that but I don't think those edge protectors matter too much as the wheels will mostly get the hits.
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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #501 on: August 08, 2016, 02:10:11 PM »
Because I'm an efficiency builder and DSL 2.2 is structured towards more realistic styles of building with less opportunities for more compact chassis. It's okay for IRL but still lacks a load of options that I think would help it a lot (smaller chain drive motors for drums, better direct axle motors like a stronger Slimbody motor, a hollow drum component so you can make full body drums, plus some little balancing things).

I enjoyed DSL 2.1 a lot cus building efficiently was very accessible compared to stock and less time consuming, but just as focused on maximizing efficiency. Of course some stuff like flail rams came along and made the meta more unfun but I'd rather try working around it than move onto something more IRL focused since efficiency building in an IRL context defeats the point of IRL building.

Offline R01

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #502 on: August 08, 2016, 02:38:17 PM »
Because I'm an efficiency builder and DSL 2.2 is structured towards more realistic styles of building with less opportunities for more compact chassis. It's okay for IRL but still lacks a load of options that I think would help it a lot (smaller chain drive motors for drums, better direct axle motors like a stronger Slimbody motor, a hollow drum component so you can make full body drums, plus some little balancing things).

I enjoyed DSL 2.1 a lot cus building efficiently was very accessible compared to stock and less time consuming, but just as focused on maximizing efficiency. Of course some stuff like flail rams came along and made the meta more unfun but I'd rather try working around it than move onto something more IRL focused since efficiency building in an IRL context defeats the point of IRL building.
Oh yeah, I remember having that issue as well when moving over from Stock to DSL. Can't you make a drum by using the spinner plates? think that might work.
Flail Rams?
And quite a lot of the above mentioned issues are in DSL 2.1 as well, so I'm still not getting the point, DSL 2.2 seems to try to balance stuff and has overdone it a bit, making no normal components a lot weaker and AI parts too strong.
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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #503 on: August 08, 2016, 05:33:57 PM »
Spinner plates are too large. Impractical to create an invertible irl style drum with such a huge weapon. Alright if I want to made a Redrum sorta thing but even then it'd be a bit ridiculous

Flail rams were this evil invention of ty4er that came around the end of DSL 2.1s glory days after I'd came up with the previous meta breaking bot type, the TRFBD. Basically deweaponed every bot type and was harder for most gutrippers to attack ect. Most people bailed out of DSL if they hadn't already from what I can tell.

DSL 2.1 has some of the same issues as 2.2 but the battery loads are usually smaller and the weapons are better optimised for popups and so on. More than anything it's just that DSL Standard building seems to have steadily declined since 2.2 came out, with all the efficiency guys using IronForge (which I will try at some point). Then in IRL I don't see the point in making things more efficient or running tournaments in that regard, if it looks good that's ultimately what actually matters when doing bots for what is ultimately just rule of cool.

Offline R01

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #504 on: August 08, 2016, 06:39:23 PM »
Spinner plates are too large. Impractical to create an invertible irl style drum with such a huge weapon. Alright if I want to made a Redrum sorta thing but even then it'd be a bit ridiculous

Flail rams were this evil invention of ty4er that came around the end of DSL 2.1s glory days after I'd came up with the previous meta breaking bot type, the TRFBD. Basically deweaponed every bot type and was harder for most gutrippers to attack ect. Most people bailed out of DSL if they hadn't already from what I can tell.

DSL 2.1 has some of the same issues as 2.2 but the battery loads are usually smaller and the weapons are better optimised for popups and so on. More than anything it's just that DSL Standard building seems to have steadily declined since 2.2 came out, with all the efficiency guys using IronForge (which I will try at some point). Then in IRL I don't see the point in making things more efficient or running tournaments in that regard, if it looks good that's ultimately what actually matters when doing bots for what is ultimately just rule of cool.
Oh right you were the creator of TRFBD's. Sadly the wiki doesn't have a image and I haven't seen one in action(I did see a image of one once). I can imagine how Flail Rams work(guess them stacking up damage made them win that much?). Still don't get the efficiency part, but I like IRL robots that can actually be effective(DSL sadly goes into a lot of directions, being a more advanced stock, IRL building and replicas are just a few), is stuff just too strong now?
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Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #505 on: August 08, 2016, 09:38:17 PM »
Because I'm an efficiency builder and DSL 2.2 is structured towards more realistic styles of building with less opportunities for more compact chassis. It's okay for IRL but still lacks a load of options that I think would help it a lot (smaller chain drive motors for drums, better direct axle motors like a stronger Slimbody motor, a hollow drum component so you can make full body drums, plus some little balancing things).

Nonsense. It's possible to build incredibly efficient in DSL2.2 - it's just the "realism" stigma that's attached to it. I've built some incredibly efficient robots in DSL 2.2 - it's just a matter of adapting to the changes. I agree that some components need balancing, though... Looking at you, Mechavore Discs... You too, Frenzy Hammers...


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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #506 on: August 09, 2016, 08:36:45 AM »
Because I'm an efficiency builder and DSL 2.2 is structured towards more realistic styles of building with less opportunities for more compact chassis. It's okay for IRL but still lacks a load of options that I think would help it a lot (smaller chain drive motors for drums, better direct axle motors like a stronger Slimbody motor, a hollow drum component so you can make full body drums, plus some little balancing things).

Nonsense. It's possible to build incredibly efficient in DSL2.2 - it's just the "realism" stigma that's attached to it. I've built some incredibly efficient robots in DSL 2.2 - it's just a matter of adapting to the changes. I agree that some components need balancing, though... Looking at you, Mechavore Discs... You too, Frenzy Hammers...
Yeah but I'm lazy

Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #507 on: August 09, 2016, 09:39:22 AM »
okay so mechavore disks are good apparently???

am i doing this right? i seriously have no idea what the building conventions are in this new version so i basically just built the same bot from dsl2.1 but with 2 technos and these dank new mechavore disks

Offline Badger

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #508 on: August 09, 2016, 12:05:10 PM »
It's a gutripping VS so it really lives/dies on the wedges. How are wedges compared to skirt wedges?

Also, the biggest change is batteries. You can't spam ants anymore. This bot would be good with 2 battlepacks.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline 09090901

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #509 on: August 09, 2016, 12:14:57 PM »
alot of the main wheels got their grips nerfed. npc fasts with techno's is pretty slow compared to 2.1.
DSL-IRL is the libtard’s meta. Go drink more soylent, retard! #BLUELIVESMATTER

Offline R01

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #510 on: August 09, 2016, 12:34:05 PM »
alot of the main wheels got their grips nerfed. npc fasts with techno's is pretty slow compared to 2.1.
So that's why all those bots feel so slow at times. Is there a full detailed list of the changes somewhere? I've seen Click's but that doesn't mention everything.
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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #511 on: August 09, 2016, 01:01:12 PM »
NPC fasts are slower than they were but they're the only really practical option and faster than the heavier Twinmag drive equivalent so i went with them. The wedges seem fine I guess? Skirt hinges should be as good as metal hinges the way I've got them set up

I've got 2 long bats and 1 battlepack I think. Will take one long out and buff the armour plates.

Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #512 on: August 09, 2016, 02:26:04 PM »
Spam as many mechavore discs as you can, pretty much. Drop the weight of everything else, and fit on 4 discs - double discs, double damage. Steel armour is a massive waste of KG's, at least in terms of armour plating - stick with titanium for now.

Also, use skirt hinges/metal wedges only when they're absolutely nessescary - the two you've used for the ground wedges are fine, but the two for the angled armour... It'd be a lot more weight-efficient to just have them as static wedges.

The steel extenders holding the wedges on are a bad idea. You're best off going with 25x50 DSL bars, or using titanium 40cm skirts.

Techno's aren't as OP as they used to be, pretty much every wheel's balanced now - you're best off using whatever gives you the least ground clearance. You made the right decision now using Twinmags, though - it's only wise to use twinmags if the chassis shape appropriates for them.

Pretty sure you could make that chassis slimmer, also.

I'd need to see insides to give more of a verdict, but that robot should have more than enough battery power with 2 WP836E's - any more than that is overkill, any less is risking the battery power running out too quick.


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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #513 on: August 09, 2016, 02:55:48 PM »
Spam as many mechavore discs as you can, pretty much. Drop the weight of everything else, and fit on 4 discs - double discs, double damage. Steel armour is a massive waste of KG's, at least in terms of armour plating - stick with titanium for now.

Also, use skirt hinges/metal wedges only when they're absolutely nessescary - the two you've used for the ground wedges are fine, but the two for the angled armour... It'd be a lot more weight-efficient to just have them as static wedges.

The steel extenders holding the wedges on are a bad idea. You're best off going with 25x50 DSL bars, or using titanium 40cm skirts.

Techno's aren't as OP as they used to be, pretty much every wheel's balanced now - you're best off using whatever gives you the least ground clearance. You made the right decision now using Twinmags, though - it's only wise to use twinmags if the chassis shape appropriates for them.

Pretty sure you could make that chassis slimmer, also.

I'd need to see insides to give more of a verdict, but that robot should have more than enough battery power with 2 WP836E's - any more than that is overkill, any less is risking the battery power running out too quick.
The extenders for the wedge are actually large beaters. Always used to last ages cus of the high fracture, dunno if they're still good.

I'll see what I can do in regard to the front armour but normally the angles I can get with baseplate anchors are kinda inflexible. Chassis is kinda fat at the back but it's actually perfect to the pixel or thereabouts to have both the NPCs and the baseplate anchors parallel.

Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #514 on: August 09, 2016, 03:07:01 PM »
The extenders for the wedge are actually large beaters. Always used to last ages cus of the high fracture, dunno if they're still good.

I'll see what I can do in regard to the front armour but normally the angles I can get with baseplate anchors are kinda inflexible. Chassis is kinda fat at the back but it's actually perfect to the pixel or thereabouts to have both the NPCs and the baseplate anchors parallel.

Hmm... I haven't tried using Large Beaters as extenders for wedges in DSL 2.2... I used them as extenders for a hammerbot I made, and they seem to work well, but for the wedges, I'd think that 25x50 DSL Bars might be more weight-efficient and practical.

Yeah, I know the baseplate anchor angles are inflexible, but until DSL 2.3, you're just gonna have to design around that. Couldn't you add cat-ears to the back of the bot so you could push the NPC's further back, and then make the chassis thinner from there?


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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #515 on: August 09, 2016, 03:33:12 PM »
Cat ears don't work in this game do they? The NPC collision prevents the majority of it from leaving the chassis

anyway tried new front armour setups and hey they worked. played around with some extra weight and came up with these two changes

4 microvore disks but i think through sheer bad luck they overlap. also super underweight


4 mechavore disks. some super lazy extender work at the back means the wedges are pretty bad

Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #516 on: August 09, 2016, 03:44:51 PM »
Cat ears don't work in this game do they? The NPC collision prevents the majority of it from leaving the chassis

Aye, that's why you turn it 180 degrees so that the attachment point of the NPC is within the cat ear, and the majority in the mesh is now in a much smaller space, like this-



Also, hey! Ion Horse 6 looks pretty good, shame about the extender work - change to DSL bars instead of whatever you're using now for a bit more weight leverage, and see what you can do from there. Also, downgrade any extenders you're using from Steel to Tite, for even more weight bargaining room.

But hey, you're getting there! Keep going, and you'll have a decent gutripping VS by the end of it! I really like the way you worked the Firestorm Flippers into the mix, too (yeah, they're still OP.)


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Offline madman3

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #517 on: August 09, 2016, 04:14:26 PM »
that looks vile but doesn't seem like a practical change. if i change the front wedge setup to extenders i'll probably just waste more weight/have much too fragile a setup

I'll play around with the back though to see what I can get out of it.

also at this point I don't think there is any point digging up more weight except for chassis armour. adding any more mechavore disks is basically impossible/stupid

Offline FOTEPX

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #518 on: August 09, 2016, 04:18:45 PM »
that looks vile but doesn't seem like a practical change. if i change the front wedge setup to extenders i'll probably just waste more weight/have much too fragile a setup

I'll play around with the back though to see what I can get out of it.

also at this point I don't think there is any point digging up more weight except for chassis armour. adding any more mechavore disks is basically impossible/stupid

Hmm... okay, fair point. I'd upgrade the ground wedges to DSL bars though, I think they'd last longer in a fight.

You've got enough Mechavore discs to be viable - from here, it's just chassis armour and external armour.


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Offline R01

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Re: Mad-man 3's DSL showcase
« Reply #519 on: August 09, 2016, 04:19:37 PM »
that looks vile but doesn't seem like a practical change. if i change the front wedge setup to extenders i'll probably just waste more weight/have much too fragile a setup

I'll play around with the back though to see what I can get out of it.

also at this point I don't think there is any point digging up more weight except for chassis armour. adding any more mechavore disks is basically impossible/stupid
Mechavore disks are the new Razors at this point, can't have enough of them :P
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