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Robot Arena => Showcases => DSL TC Showcases => Topic started by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 11:46:03 AM

Title: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 11:46:03 AM
Hello, now I get to show off the one robot that I'm actually somewhat proud of in DSL right now.

I like to call him - and this is super cliched - Big Red.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/94193Isometric.png)

I don't know how to classify him - is he a fullbody or a partial spinner? I think partial - and he's the one robot who... actually meets what I aimed to build. ...He doesn't perform well but!

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/4984Front View.png)

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/81087Top View (Weapons Removed).png)

(Weapon is removed in the above picture)

Small edit: The reason there's a gap in the above picture? If I put a battery there, I couldn't have the control module. Oops.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/19519Weight.png)

I think the saddest part is that it looks more threatening than it actually is. And don't even get me started on when it tips over...
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Bobyasianboy on June 25, 2015, 12:03:43 PM
That actually looks pretty damn cool. A few things though: Due to a glitch in RA2, every spinning motor only takes up 10 amps so you can actually just use 5 antweight batteries and save a lot of weight- you could probably get the weight down to a middleweight. You could also probably use a normal DSL tribar to save a bit of weight. Also, motors you're using for drive should only be used for spinners, I'd recommend using NPC-Fasts with vlad wheels instead. I'm not too sure about using maces but I don't know enough to give you an alternative since I don't really make spinners like that. Finally, it's best to use the blue speedcontroller just because it's a bit lighter. Don't get me wrong though, this looks really nice for one of your first bots in DSL.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 12:14:14 PM
Started playing around with what you said, and I've come to the conclusion that - as a result - I need to cut down the chassis size, which will theoretically cut down at least a few hundred pounds. It's already come down by a lot with your advice, though!
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Naryar on June 25, 2015, 12:23:27 PM
we call these horizontal spinners or just spinners. FBS is another design, and this one ain't a FBS.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 12:42:47 PM
Okay, thanks for the information, Nar.

Meanwhile...

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/63846HOW DO I NOT HAVE ENOUGH ROOM.jpg)

Why? Why does RA2 hate me?
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Bobyasianboy on June 25, 2015, 12:56:57 PM
If it's a height problem, obviously you'll have to raise the chassis. But if it's a component problem, you could try rotating the E-tek since the hitboxes can be pretty weird at times, I've solved a few problems like that just by rotating the component :P
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 01:34:49 PM
I did end up altering the chassis, actually, and... Well, to call him "Big" Red isn't accurate anymore.

Gentlemen, this is Moderate Red.

...and yes, he's still underperforming!

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/59735Isometric.jpg)

I did try to use NPC-Fasts at first, but... Simply put, they made it waaaaay too hard to control, and I ended up using regular NPCs.

The guts are mostly untouched, though; the biggest change is that it's using one Red and the drive.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/76550Top View.jpg)

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/98944Weight.jpg)

Right now my biggest issue with the design - and something I don't know how to get around - is that the weapon isn't exactly... dependable. Any bot I put him against almost destroyed him instantly, and for some reason I didn't get DSA so I had to make it 1 mm Aluminum. I also tried a design with Iron Spikes, but... that didn't get very far either...
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Thrackerzod on June 25, 2015, 01:41:03 PM
In DSL, the armors have been rebalanced, so DSA (ie, not picking an armor) is actually the worst possible armor choice.  If I remember correctly, the titanium ones are best on average.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: 090901 on June 25, 2015, 01:45:40 PM
titanium and plastic armours have the best armour to weight ratio
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Badnik96 on June 25, 2015, 01:53:04 PM
If you're aiming for a middleweight you're spending way too much weight on your drive and not enough on weapons.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: rnifnuf on June 25, 2015, 02:17:58 PM
There are many reasons the bot is not performing well. All of them can be fixed, and here is how/why:

The main reason the robot is not doing much damage is a combination of the weapon choice and the fact that the reach is too short. Axes, as well as weapons such as saws and pole spikes, have normals, which restrict the weapon's ability to do damage by only allowing the weapon to do damage with certain faces. In this case, the axes have normals on the blade, meaning that the axe will only do damage when the blade comes in contact with another component. A better weapon choice would be Light Double-Sided teeth or Beater Bars, since those weapons do not have normals. Also, use a larger tribar for longer weapon reach.

As Badnik said (while I was typing this post, actually) there is too much weight invested in the drive power. With the exception of SnS (Sit 'n' Spin), spinner robots do not need to be fast, and thus, do not need very much drive power. Rather than use four NPCs with Pussycat wheels (it is generally a good idea to avoid Pussycat wheels), use the left and right NPC motors with Hypnodisc or Vlad wheels. An advantage of the left and right NPC motors is that, due to hitbox shenanigans, they can be placed so that most of the motor is actually outside the chassis while still being attached to the baseplate.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: 090901 on June 25, 2015, 02:20:13 PM
rninuf i think he may be going for more of an irl style
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on June 25, 2015, 02:24:43 PM
What I'm taking out of this is that - somehow - my first build was generally better weapon wise. I don't even...

Anyway, I am kind flip-floppy between IRL and things that actually work, so I'll give the motors a try; honestly, at the moment, I'm half tempted to just rip the thing apart and try a different approach chassis wise.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: rnifnuf on June 25, 2015, 02:31:00 PM
rninuf i think he may be going for more of an irl style

I never really considered that before; thanks for the insight. Still, I think this bot could benefit from being 2WD and using a larger tribar.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Naryar on June 25, 2015, 03:05:03 PM
Sure it is going towards IRL... it's unrealistic but irl. Is this a new thing ?

and yeah, you really only need 2WD for all MW's. Especially for a HS.

axes are awful for spinners. keep them for rammers and pokers (piston bots).

also in DSL we tend to build realistically unlike in stock. that means no moving components going through other moving components, or motors and wheels and batteries and anything that isn't just a static bunch of metal/plastic.. it's just a soft taboo and you can build DSL unrealistic, but no one will accept an unrealistic bot in a DSL tournament.

Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: cephalopod on June 25, 2015, 03:27:20 PM
Sure it is going towards IRL... it's unrealistic but irl. Is this a new thing ?

Sounds like the first days of Stock to me.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 15, 2017, 04:42:47 PM
Whew boy, it has been awhile.


And no, my bot building skills have not gotten any better! In fact, I think they got worse. Hooray!

So without further ado (and to what the Discord has already seen): a mistake Aggressive Tissue Box.

...No, my naming conventions haven't improved either.


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/96740Aggressive Tissue Box Shot 1.png)


It's a Heavyweight vertical spinner (because I don't know how to build light) using 2 Large2 DSL Discs for the flywheels, large Typhoon teeth for weapons and a ZTek motor for the weaponry. And yes, I've already heard about the Piglets for drive...

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/82840Aggressive Tissue Box Shot 4.png)


Here's a top view of the bot - optimization is needed desperately but I'm so rusty at this that I've forgotten most of the finer details about building. So that's why stuff like this happens all the time!

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/22614Aggressive Tissue Box Shot 3.png)

Why yes, that is the test drive area.

In summary of Aggressive Tissue Box:

Pros:

Cons:


So that's it; I know the bot's a piece of hot garbage but I love the idea of it, so I'd really like to know what to do to make it less of an incoherent mess.

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Badger on March 15, 2017, 04:47:15 PM
PIGLETS FOR DRIVE REEEEEE

Yeah, you already know that piglets aren't the best for drive, so you'll want to be rid of them. The drive legs look cool but aren't super efficient, so if you're more concerned with efficiency then looks, you might want to move the legs further apart, both horizontally or vertically. If not, you'll want to armour the legs more, at least. Typhoon teeth are pretty OP so your weapon choice looks solid. It's certainly an interesting bot.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 15, 2017, 04:53:09 PM
PIGLETS FOR DRIVE REEEEEE

Yeah, you already know that piglets aren't the best for drive, so you'll want to be rid of them. The drive legs look cool but aren't super efficient, so if you're more concerned with efficiency then looks, you might want to move the legs further apart, both horizontally or vertically. If not, you'll want to armour the legs more, at least. Typhoon teeth are pretty OP so your weapon choice looks solid. It's certainly an interesting bot.


I'm gonna assume replace the Piglets with NPCs? They might be far enough apart for the bot not to turn into a hurtling ball of "why am I doing please stop."


I'm also assume that I need to lower the machine more.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: TheRoboteer on March 15, 2017, 04:59:35 PM
PIGLETS FOR DRIVE REEEEEE

Yeah, you already know that piglets aren't the best for drive, so you'll want to be rid of them. The drive legs look cool but aren't super efficient, so if you're more concerned with efficiency then looks, you might want to move the legs further apart, both horizontally or vertically. If not, you'll want to armour the legs more, at least. Typhoon teeth are pretty OP so your weapon choice looks solid. It's certainly an interesting bot.


I'm gonna assume replace the Piglets with NPCs? They might be far enough apart for the bot not to turn into a hurtling ball of "why am I doing please stop."


I'm also assume that I need to lower the machine more.
Making the legs shorter and the chassis slightly wider should make it more stable. You can reduce the amount of batteries you've got in there to get some more weight to play with too if you're near the weight limit.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: kix on March 15, 2017, 06:17:48 PM
Also dont use all four NPC-s to steer.. use 2 opposite on each size (if you dont know what i mean: top left and bottom right one)
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Badnik96 on March 15, 2017, 06:32:23 PM
tgm what are you talking about

i would create some motor protection, maybe the added weight will help your stability issue
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 15, 2017, 09:22:32 PM
Going to update with my current build of things before I head off to bed; probably need to stretch the chassis out a little bit upwards because the wheels feel way too tight. But it looks safe enough and has taken a hell of a beating against the AI Bots (like the one with all the spinning maces that slips my mind! whoops).


Anyway, I hope I'm not breaking any rules with all the pictures and stuff. I try to be as comprehensive as possible with these whoops

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/96001Aggressive Tissue Box Update 1 Shot 1.png)

Featuring 1 inch Titanium armor. Also yeah, we're keeping the "Die! D:<"


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/62788Aggressive Tissue Box Update 1 Shot 2.png)

Back shot; those wedges, for supposedly being part of a shell for spinners, make really spiffy armor pieces.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/44680Aggressive Tissue Box Update 1 Shot 5.png)

Here's where one of my issues with this redesign lays: I made the wheels too close together and it still functions as well as a slip'n'slide. Which, comically, has allowed it to get on top of AI bots and just roll all over them with those giant screw off blades.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/86421Aggressive Tissue Box Update 1 Shot 3.png)

Next redesign is also going to have me lowering the roof to where that battery's top is (if I can measure it correctly). Or maybe just the Z-Tek, since battery power isn't the biggest concern for this thing.


Edit: It has just occurred to me that they're the same height. I'M SMART GUYS


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/47870Aggressive Tissue Box Update 1 Shot 4.png)

Here's a side shot of the drive set-up without all the armor covering it (Med skis for the sides and the aforementioned shells for the front). Planning on replacing the wheels with Vlad wheels once I figure out the correct spacing.


Sidenote: because of how low it sits to the ground, I had to replace the Large Typhoon teeth with the small variants. Is there that much of a difference between them?


And another sidenote: thank you for all of the help. ;u;
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: NeonCalypso on March 16, 2017, 06:28:45 AM
You should probably make the spinner in the middle.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 16, 2017, 08:35:28 PM
GOOD NEWS ON AGGRESSIVE TISSUE BOX (Pending name: Day Stallion, shout out to Shield)


In my ride home from school, I came up with a way to stop the flipping while moving forward while simultaneously keeping the chassis relatively small. Unfortunately it comes at the price of vulnerable wheels and the bot having a tendency to flip while driving with the weapon active (it's seriously fine otherwise).


So here's what I did:

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/93864Aggressive Tissue Box Update 2 Shot 1.png)


why is that battery sticking out

I placed Anchors on 4 corners diagonal of each other and set up the drive train there. Gravity has it fall forward, boom I've got a stable robot (when it's not using it's weapon).

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/72717Aggressive Tissue Box Update 2 Shot 2.png)

Here's a clean shot of the internals from the top; the chassis is just tall enough to fit the ZTek motor. Speaking of that, I think I've figured out why the bot keeps spinning out while driving to one side: the weight is imbalanced. So I'm probably going to replace that standard Ztek with a doublesided and see if that driving issues iron out.


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/8822Aggressive Tissue Box Update 2 Shot 3.png)

This is how the bot is supposed to look. As of right now Size 2 Motorcycle wheels are the only wheels big enough to simultaneously let me drive without spinning out and have the larger Typhoon teeth that I had originally. Downside: they are very easily picked off. Might want to build a small frame around them and armor them up... Maybe that'll help prevent the self flipping alongside the new weapon motor?


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/18255Aggressive Tissue Box Update 2 Shot 4.png)


To wrap things up, here's an annotation of what I did to set up the drive train (hopefully symmetrical on both sides, the ZTek was kind of a hassle to build around since hitbox romance). Maybe I should change these to 45 degrees but then I think the bot would sit too low and I'd scrape.


Side note, I do have another bot sitting in the works; combination Flipper + Flail spinner. Spoilers: only one of these weapons is actually worth a damn.


Anyway, feedback appreciated; I think this design is actually starting to get somewhere.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Gulden on March 16, 2017, 08:41:46 PM
I feel like you have too many batteries in there.
One Big Black battery can have 5 motors survive an entire match, so you can get rid of the red ones.

Otherwise, it's an interesting one.
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 16, 2017, 08:46:48 PM
THAT MAKES IT SO MUCH EASIER TO FIT THE NEW WEAPON MOTOR IN

THANK YOU


Edit:


Okay, before I go off to sleep, going to update with what I tried to make this thing... stable.


The Dual Ztek, in fact, did not work. In fact I think it made things worse.


I also ditched the NPCs thinking that my bot was pirouetting because it was turning into the weapon's spin too fast. ...also didn't work.


I'm running out of ideas aside from revert to a standard chassis build and make it like half an H
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: DarkMatterGaming on March 17, 2017, 10:26:55 PM
So.


Aggressive Tissue Box is still the main focus (I should get around to building that flipper I've been wanting to do) since it's the first bot in a really long time that I want to see work this damn badly.

In the process of trying to make this thing at least somewhat workable, I made a realization:


I had too much power in my drive.


That's why it kept flipping over while turning! So after a quick retooling, I now have this:


(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/655Shot 1.png)


Sideway Skis absorb most of the momentum that makes the bot just flop over; conversely, it's now much hard to self right myself.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/23741Shot 2.png)

Back shot, mostly just showing that we're back down to regular motorcycle wheels. Reverted the results from the experiments last night too.

(https://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/99552Shot 3.png)


Since we're down to only 3 motors, decided to scrap the big ole black battery in favor of two battlepacks. I might be overcompensating a bit but right now I'm aiming for functionality. Later down the line I can worry about how efficient the internals are.


I didn't take screencaps but other things I experimented with:



Both.. worked but neither felt right. The role cage did provide a lot of stability when it was upside down, though, so maybe I will end up keeping that change.


Anyway, somewhat shorter update tonight; tomorrow I'll rough draft my flipper and we'll see if I'm any better at flippers than weird Not-Nightmares.


That reminds me, rename to Day Stallion
Title: Re: DarkMatterGaming's Spinning Things That May Be Robots
Post by: Reier on March 22, 2017, 01:16:07 PM
bud the reason it's flopping over is the center of gravity is 12ft in the air

why don't you just make it shorter and not have to worry about adding another drive system on top?