Author Topic: The problem with competitive IRL in RA2  (Read 3618 times)

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: The problem with competitive IRL in RA2
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2018, 12:45:39 PM »
I'd be behind the whole "building IRL solely for spectacle" idea if building IRL wasn't such a ballache. Why would I bother building something superfluous that takes 10x longer to build and is, at best, maybe a quarter as effective, when I could just build something in less than an hour that would keep the crap out of any IRL bot I know of? This is why I support DSL-S over DSL-IRL; it's the fundamental bedrock which all the DSL-IRL bots are built off of.

It's the main problem I've had since starting Complete Edition, really, and the only way to solve it in a way that makes both parties happy is to make two separate mods. Balance all the motors and weapons to DSL-S standards, people'll complain the motors aren't realistic enough. Balance all the motors and weapons to IRL standards and the DSL-S meta pretty much becomes Ironforge. It's a no-win situation, because I simply don't have the time required for the upkeep of two separate branches of DSL. So, if I had to pick one...

DSL-IRL will adapt and change to get the most out of the DSL-S toolbox. Just look at how DSL-IRL changed from 2.1 to 2.2, and then from 2.2 to using DSC's multicoloured components. It's a symbiotic, constantly evolving process. For DSL-IRL to keep evolving, DSL-S needs to be placed first because it's what everyone's using to build DSL-IRL. There is no DSL-IRL pack out there - the last one that attempted that was Avalanche's attempt, and we all know how spectacularly that went down. Hate to break it to you, DSL-IRL fans; you're in our yard, and if I needed a better example of this, TheRoboteer summed it up best-

This is also why I think the current effort to try to objectively balance components for an inherently subjective meta is, to be frank, dumb. People talk about nerfing the mech disc or typhoon teeth, or buffing bursts, but that doesn't work because as you say, everyone has a different definition of IRL.

This is a fine example of the confusion people find themselves in when trying to balance DSL-S to DSL-IRL standards. In DSL-S, there is no debate that Typhoon Teeth, Mechavore Discs and Minion Discs are overpowered, but in DSL-IRL it's allowed to slide, granted that the builder doesn't exploit it's OP-ness. So, let's theorize, and say that DSL 2.3 nerfs those 3 criminal weapons. What'd happen then to DSL-IRL? Answer: Actually very little. You might see an uptick in those weapons being used, but overall, the meta would shift very little. Even if it was a great shift, DSL-IRL would still stay DSL-IRL. You cannot break that - where there's a will, there's a way. People've been doing replicas since the Stock days, for god's sakes. If people can manage in as limited a toolbox as that, I can guarantee you that balancing 3 components isn't going to ruin everything for you.

TL;DR - Play the game however you want. Just keep in mind what allowed you to play the game the way you do in the first place.
This is all just patently untrue. DSL-IRL is a TOTALLY different animal to DSL-S and if you think you can balance them both at the same time you're incredibly naive. Hell, 2.2 was an attempt to do just that and look how that turned out. DSL-S isn't the bedrock that DSL-IRL is based off at all. If that was the case DSL-IRL designs would all just be the kind of thing you see in DSL-S except with supports for weapons and other minor changes to make them fit within the IRL ruleset. That's not the case though as literally anyone who ACTUALLY PLAYS IRL could tell you.

I'm not trying to claim that rebalancing those 3 components is going to destroy IRL as a meta or anything, and if you think that I was then I feel that you've missed the point of my argument entirely. What I was saying is that, as you say yourself, rebalancing those components will change very little. Whatever the next most OP component after those 3 is will simply step up to take the place that Typhoon teeth or Mech discs currently occupy. That's power creep, which I'd advise you look up as it's a very real problem when people try to balance stuff. What I was also saying is that the only surefire way to make everyone happy in terms of balance is for tournament hosts to decide for themselves what they think is OP and what isn't, and for people entering those tournaments to suck it up and build to the ruleset that the host outlines.

As just about everyone in this thread has mentioned, IRL is an INHERENTLY subjective meta, and trying to balance it, and an objective meta like DSL-S at the same time is incredibly misguided.
Notable Tournament Performances:
The Beginner's Guide to IRL:
https://gametechmods.com/forums/tutorials-and-tips/irl-a-beginner's-guide