Author Topic: Status Report  (Read 5480 times)

Offline Hi5er

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Status Report
« on: August 03, 2016, 08:57:54 AM »
So just a quickie... Do we think this has gone belly up?

Last I heard we were to expect fortnightly updates, rather than weekly, but with nothing posted on Steam since June 20th... I'm doubtful...

I was on the edge of investing, but when they made the decision to bring it out of early access just for the Steam Sale, I was shocked to see such a blatant cash grab with no regard for the users, very poor move in my opinion... There is always going to be more Steam Sales in which they could have aligned the release date to.

I'm now glad I never actually bought and tried this out as i'm starting to believe nothing further will develop.

Is the dream over?
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Offline Badger

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 09:57:02 AM »
It was doomed from release of early access. There are very basic parts of the game missing/broken, and I expect they'd need to redo a whole lot to make it playable. It's a shame they made a horrific cashgrab, if they spent another year or so on it they could ride on the BB/RW hype wave with an actual decent game.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline R01

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 10:10:20 AM »
I don't own or have ever played the game, but from what I've heard in the other threads, the company has also other games(which they're working on now) and people guessing that the guys working on it are doing this as regular game developer job together with other stuff(surprisingly they still cared about this community a lot).

RA3 looked interesting at first, and having devs that actually did research to see what the original game was & seeing this community looked really promising and the things they said made this look like something that could really be the next game of the series.
There were only a few issues for this, for one this one was a paid game(the old one was too, but later abandonware), so not as many people could actually get it, neither could you simply download it to see what's all about and try it out(there wasn't a demo either).

For me this meant no way to get it(as I have no means of online payment) and it was also on Steam, guess because it's the mainstream thing and nothing else exists, but I'd like to have my games DRM free, not bound to a client or Steam Workshop where you need to subscribe to a creator to download AND use! created things.
Another part was also how you weren't allowed to say much negative stuff about this game, it just seemed odd, in a way I can understand that we should support new developers who are so friendly, but one should still be able to have different opinions and legit critique.
Not that it mattered to me, because back then I liked the game as well, but looking back at it with RA3's current state... oh man.

Most of the expectations dropped when it was released in early access. As far as I understand they couldn't get all the stuff done in time but still wanted to release it on the original date? According to what I heard the only thing not working was the online multiplayer, with everything else being "ready for launch". Looking at what Hi5er posted it was because of the sale?
This raises even more questions. Getting your game on Steam during a sale can be a killer argument, it will easily be overshadowed by other cheap games or your first sold games will go for a way cheaper price. So why do this? Unless you wanted to get quick sales and quick money?

They did say that they would be addressing those things and listening to the community, which sounds great and it's nice hearing a dev being nice like that, however this gave me even more questions, how the heck would they think that a game which has a square chassis collision, even bigger user unfriendly UI than RA2 for a beginner, does damage even if it doesn't matter if your weapons are active or not, has broken collision, [...] look finished to them? Heck, the preview builds looked better.
Sure they can try updating and updating, however if they can't get such basic things right, will they be able to fix the other things?

While doing that thought I did forget something big however, today's big companies are all based around (short term) profit(which I find sad & would be one of the reasons why I'd start off with free games), constantly updating a game doesn't give you more money(of course positive reviews=more recommendations=more sold copies, but that all depends on the effort needed to fix the stuff and the big guys controlling stuff don't seem to see this. Working in a company that's getting quite a lot of stuff closed and seeing other examples has shown me this enough time), so it was only a question of time until they would stop updating. Don't think they missed any promises from the Q & A as well, we did get new parts like cookie wheels and if a game is good or not always depends on a person's view on it.

I am giving them the benefit of doubt and hope they will bring out new updates once in a while(maybe it will end up being like Savant Ascent, for anyone who knows that game, with the developers working on a big game and once in a while giving the other one a update), but I don't think we will get something that's better than RA2 at this point, it will most likely be a niche game, much like the sadly forgotten mods of RA2.
They have shown quite a lot of signs hinting at cashgrab, but I'm not going to be a person that says "see guys it's a cashgrab" and will wait until the end to see how it turns out.
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Offline Badger

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 10:20:21 AM »
I admire your optimism R01, but put it this way; if this game in a decently playable state within a year, I'll drink a bottle of ketchup and upload it. If it gets updated after a year from now (with anything meaningful) I'll down two more. And I hate ketchup.
also lol at most toxic guy around calling others out on this sh**
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Offline R01

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 10:39:16 AM »
I admire your optimism R01, but put it this way; if this game in a decently playable state within a year, I'll drink a bottle of ketchup and upload it. If it gets updated after a year from now (with anything meaningful) I'll down two more. And I hate ketchup.
Thanks for reading, personally I don't believe it either, but I'm not one that says that it will never happen, it might but it's looking rather negative.

Decently playable state probably won't happen(didn't RA2 get low reviews because of the havok explosion? I still think RA2 will be more stable than this by far) but I wouldn't do that bet for updates after a year, games sometimes get broken because of steam overlay or other changes, requiring a patch, even long finished games sometimes got an update for that. Unless you meant if it's a decently playable state & gets updates after a year, because I doubt that will happen.
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Offline RedSawn

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 10:42:39 AM »
It was a sh** early access release, and the double dip was cheeky, but I was happy as long as they kept updating regularly and kept us informed. It'd get somewhere eventually if they kept plugging at it. And they were doing that, right up to the full release update. Now it's been a full month since their supposed 4th July break, Zoss has to poke them to get any sort of information, and the only people left on the Steam community are angry buyers discussing the death of the game on the forums to no response from devs. It does seem like it's over. Personally I'm not angry or anything. Just disappointed.




Offline 09090901

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 11:35:23 AM »
Some dreams are better off staying as memes.
DSL-IRL is the libtard’s meta. Go drink more soylent, retard! #BLUELIVESMATTER

Offline Impossible343

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 01:25:58 PM »
It made me lol that, after releasing the last update on June 20th, they made a post on Facebook on July 15th basically saying "what bots are you building" which makes me think that they have given up updating the game and believe it to be finished(when it blatantly isn't)
Sometimes this game is on crack.
and now craaig knows how sakurai felt

Offline powerrave

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 01:45:01 PM »
Lol I had seen that fb post. I commented on it that I was going to build something in RA2.

Honestly I am very much disappointed that this turned out to just be a cash grab.
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Offline R01

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 03:38:11 PM »
It made me lol that, after releasing the last update on June 20th, they made a post on Facebook on July 15th basically saying "what bots are you building" which makes me think that they have given up updating the game and believe it to be finished(when it blatantly isn't)
Didn't know about this, but yeah most likely that or the big guys are like "nope, no budget left for updates".

I did read a bit of the steam changelog(I did know about some things but forget to point them out before):

From Update3(the last one before official launch):
Quote
Tournaments now have weight limits. However the game currently does not check to see if the selected bot meets the limit until it is locked. To prevent this, do not use an unrestricted weight class bot in a tournament.
Ramps have been removed from the testing facility for now.
Important Note: On a small selection of some older video cards, the Bot Lab may not function properly or the game may not be able to load matches. We are current looking into the issue.
Were those ever fixed?

The addition of wedge bots was also a bit odd:
Quote
Update 2:
You can now build Wedge Bots and other classic bot shapes! Arbitrary collision volumes have been implemented.

Update 3:
Previous "chassis dragging" bot designs (like wedges) will now encounter proper friction on the ground and may be hard to drive. To compensate, add ball casters, casters, small wedges or forklift arms, which have much lower friction and will allow you to slide the chassis close to the ground.
This is a good example on why today's "we can update and change everything anytime we want" model doesn't work on games like this, stuff like that would completely screw over bots built with the old system. Were the old wedges just sliding along the ground as if they had ice under them? Why not adjust the chassis underside friction or give a option for that?


And the fact that this has been a thing before the update:
Quote
Losing batteries now disables a bot.
Bot components that drag on the ground will now cause proper friction, slowing the bot. Get your components up off the ground to avoid this.
Heavy objects attached to motors will cause them to spin up more slowly than motors with light objects attached. Note, however, that some motors are very powerful and can spin quickly even with heavy weights attached.

Snap to Grid being always enabled, with no option to turn it off. again was that ever fixed?
Pause menu not being finished at all and later scrapped.

We committed to releasing Robot Arena III on May 26 and because of the huge amount of excitement we've seen about the game, we didn't want to disappoint the community by missing that date. However, some recent changes by third-party plugins used by the game caused last-minute issues with certain parts of the game, particularly the multiplayer. We are confident we can fix them, but we wouldn’t be able to do so by Thursday.

The game is mostly complete. The major issue for now is that only two-player multiplayer will be available at launch, with four-player multiplayer coming within the next few weeks.
mostly complete

mostly complete

With this update, we’ve decided to move the game from Early Access to final release. This does not mean that we’re done enhancing and improving the game - more updates will follow.
So losing batteries didn't power down the motors and you were able to use them fine? Also that was from the post which told us that the game would launch in early access.


The game however did add a few things which I liked, for one the component clipping.
Yes it allows for very broken stuff, but the way I view it it avoids those situations where you are left thinking "oh man if I only made the chassis one pixel wider then I could fit all this stuff in", in some cases I'd much rather have a component clip out a little bit or only be halfway inside the chassis(that's possible in real life as well so I really don't understand why DSL and IF limit it that much).

Another thing I liked is the grid, from what I've seen it was a little too big(not sure if the snap to grid option was toggleable) a small(but not too small) enough grid makes component positioning easier and much easier to work with than working with pixels.
Quote
Added mini control board for micro bots.
Added mini battery for micro bots.
Added mini CO2 tank for micro bots.
Added super-heavy battery for big bots.
I have no idea how big and useful those components are, but guess they have some use. Showing support for other weightclasses is always good.

Quote
Motors have Torque and RPM controls to tune them.
Reduce Torque on a motor to prevent bots from flipping.
Reduce RPMs on a motor to limit its top speed.
This should've been a thing before, you don't know how annoying that can be while driving.
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Offline Sage

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2016, 06:07:20 PM »
if they added some "rules" to the bot lab I would actually be mostly okay with the game.

I like the chassis system and the arenas are sick and it has the potential to have online + bot sharing.
You got my vote for RA2 Wizard. Always and forever.

Offline Hi5er

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2016, 03:30:25 AM »
if they added some "rules" to the bot lab I would actually be mostly okay with the game.

I like the chassis system and the arenas are sick and it has the potential to have online + bot sharing.

Which just makes the whole thing that much sadder...

Some good points RO1... Especially the "mostly complete" comments from the devs, such liesssss!
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Offline RedSawn

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2016, 04:46:13 AM »
From Update3(the last one before official launch):
Quote
Tournaments now have weight limits. However the game currently does not check to see if the selected bot meets the limit until it is locked. To prevent this, do not use an unrestricted weight class bot in a tournament.
Ramps have been removed from the testing facility for now.
Important Note: On a small selection of some older video cards, the Bot Lab may not function properly or the game may not be able to load matches. We are current looking into the issue.
Were those ever fixed?

Haven't really tried tournaments again since it became clear they do not refresh.

The addition of wedge bots was also a bit odd:
Quote
Update 2:
You can now build Wedge Bots and other classic bot shapes! Arbitrary collision volumes have been implemented.

Update 3:
Previous "chassis dragging" bot designs (like wedges) will now encounter proper friction on the ground and may be hard to drive. To compensate, add ball casters, casters, small wedges or forklift arms, which have much lower friction and will allow you to slide the chassis close to the ground.
This is a good example on why today's "we can update and change everything anytime we want" model doesn't work on games like this, stuff like that would completely screw over bots built with the old system. Were the old wedges just sliding along the ground as if they had ice under them? Why not adjust the chassis underside friction or give a option for that?

And the fact that this has been a thing before the update:
Quote
Losing batteries now disables a bot.
Bot components that drag on the ground will now cause proper friction, slowing the bot. Get your components up off the ground to avoid this.
Heavy objects attached to motors will cause them to spin up more slowly than motors with light objects attached. Note, however, that some motors are very powerful and can spin quickly even with heavy weights attached.

Snap to Grid being always enabled, with no option to turn it off. again was that ever fixed?
Pause menu not being finished at all and later scrapped.

Can't remember the old wedges much (when they started working), I think they were functional, but I do remember de-wheeled robots sliding across the arena like it was on ice. But at the moment it's virtually impossible to have a skid chassis wedge because the friction value on the chassis is so high.

At that point in time I don't remember the motor changes making much of a difference.

Problem was at the time snap to grid was always on for chassis points, and always off for components. They did fix that toggle.

The pause menu still exists, just there was a useless Options button on it. That was removed.

Quote
Added mini control board for micro bots.
Added mini battery for micro bots.
Added mini CO2 tank for micro bots.
Added super-heavy battery for big bots.
I have no idea how big and useful those components are, but guess they have some use. Showing support for other weightclasses is always good.

Mini control board is like the mini DSL board. Tiny, but in RA3 it's lighter (2kg versus 4kg) so really it's superior to the standard board in every measurable aspect.

The mini battery weighs 1kg and is joint second with the Supervolt for power efficiency (2000 power/kg), first being the Nifty (2500 power/kg). Looks like a single AA battery separated from the small battery pack. The Megavolt gives the power of two Supervolts, but weighs 70kg, making it less power efficient (1714 power/kg). It's also bigger by like 25% on all axis. Two supervolts are still wider, so situational use, really.

The mini CO2 tank has the same 250 air/weight ratio as the other two tanks - technically it's the best based on portability, but the two or three required to match a medium/large tank probably takes up more total space. I haven't really looked into it.

Quote
Motors have Torque and RPM controls to tune them.
Reduce Torque on a motor to prevent bots from flipping.
Reduce RPMs on a motor to limit its top speed.
This should've been a thing before, you don't know how annoying that can be while driving.

This update made motors a whole lot better - but the torque is still far too high, and nothing's stopping people from having full torque and full RPM. Almost every realistic application requires 1% torque for non-instantaneous spinup. A Ztek HP can spin 800kg of weapons just fine until around the 20~25% torque mark, only then is it a bit slow spinning up for competition (but it still does).




Offline R01

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2016, 07:54:16 AM »
if they added some "rules" to the bot lab I would actually be mostly okay with the game.

I like the chassis system and the arenas are sick and it has the potential to have online + bot sharing.

Which just makes the whole thing that much sadder...

Some good points RO1... Especially the "mostly complete" comments from the devs, such liesssss!
I guess you guys mean the component clipping and being able to place stuff everywhere you want. Yeah I do think that should've been a thing(chassis clipping however should be fine). In a way it's good that it allows us to build with stock building style however at the same time it's just plain lazy to add no component collision and allows really broken things in the workshop, requiring all people to follow a certain ruleset to have DSL-S bots can be annoying and completely breaks "free for all" online matches(if those exist).

Thanks. At first I thought that this was just some random developer comment but they actually said that in the announcement. I'm not angry at them, I just find it sad how this game is.

Can't remember the old wedges much (when they started working), I think they were functional, but I do remember de-wheeled robots sliding across the arena like it was on ice. But at the moment it's virtually impossible to have a skid chassis wedge because the friction value on the chassis is so high.
Forgot to mention it in my post, but it's basically this then:

Let me get that double facepalm picture...
Quote
Problem was at the time snap to grid was always on for chassis points, and always off for components. They did fix that toggle.

The pause menu still exists, just there was a useless Options button on it. That was removed.
So it was basically RA2. Does a snap option for components now exist?
Also yeah I meant that with the options button.

Quote
Mini control board is like the mini DSL board. Tiny, but in RA3 it's lighter (2kg versus 4kg) so really it's superior to the standard board in every measurable aspect.

The mini battery weighs 1kg and is joint second with the Supervolt for power efficiency (2000 power/kg), first being the Nifty (2500 power/kg). Looks like a single AA battery separated from the small battery pack. The Megavolt gives the power of two Supervolts, but weighs 70kg, making it less power efficient (1714 power/kg). It's also bigger by like 25% on all axis. Two supervolts are still wider, so situational use, really.

The mini CO2 tank has the same 250 air/weight ratio as the other two tanks - technically it's the best based on portability, but the two or three required to match a medium/large tank probably takes up more total space. I haven't really looked into it.
I should've expected them to not really look into balance, thought this would be good this time around. Nifties are a bit bigger, Megavolts are smaller than two supervolts so I guess chassis size does give them some use at least.
Co2 tank does sound good at least.

Quote
Motors have Torque and RPM controls to tune them.
Reduce Torque on a motor to prevent bots from flipping.
Reduce RPMs on a motor to limit its top speed.
This should've been a thing before, you don't know how annoying that can be while driving.
Quote
This update made motors a whole lot better - but the torque is still far too high, and nothing's stopping people from having full torque and full RPM. Almost every realistic application requires 1% torque for non-instantaneous spinup. A Ztek HP can spin 800kg of weapons just fine until around the 20~25% torque mark, only then is it a bit slow spinning up for competition (but it still does).
I haven't really worked with motors, but I guess Torque controls it's grip/pushing power while RPM controls the speed/rounds per minute like the name says. I guess this was mostly added to fix bots flipping themselves over and not so you can have pushing power vs speed. Having a slider for that would sure be a lot of fun, imagine bots like tornado, not too fast but still having amazing pushing power and never stopping until they're broken.
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Offline Naryar

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2016, 06:18:01 AM »
>Gametechmods members still taking RA3 seriously


Offline Hi5er

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2016, 06:41:24 AM »
>Gametechmods members still taking RA3 seriously

(Image removed from quote.)

I always knew you were a little girl Naryar  :laughing :laughing
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Offline Naryar

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2016, 08:39:06 AM »
>Gametechmods members still taking RA3 seriously

(Image removed from quote.)

I always knew you were a little girl Naryar  :laughing :laughing

...that's not the point but ok

Offline RedSawn

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2016, 04:04:35 PM »
I don't care that much anymore. I had that information handy from before, might as well make use of it if someone wants the answers.

Yeah, the snap option for components works. I guess I didn't make that clear before




Offline R01

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2016, 06:18:15 AM »
>Gametechmods members still taking RA3 seriously

(Image removed from quote.)

I always knew you were a little girl Naryar  :laughing :laughing

...that's not the point but ok
Well, I thought since this thread is more or less serious(and seeing how negative stuff wasn't really well seen in the RA3 thread in the beginning) I thought I'd give a serious answer to this instead of being like "lol RA3 sux", so that it's clear why it's like that and so that new members can quickly see what's wrong.
Also nice one Hi5er :P
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Offline Lotica

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Re: Status Report
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2016, 10:02:57 PM »