Ruleset for balancing bot types.

[Naryar]

I think this was touched in the past (maybe one of Craaig's tournaments), but how about a ruleset for tournaments that changes the weight limit according to what bot type you enter ? So hammers stop sucking, and popups/HS/DSL SnS stop killing everything else. Or at least these tendencies are lowered.

example:

for DSL

Hammer, Clamp : +20% weight
Side hammer, Poker: +10% weight (not sure about side hammer bonus honestly...)
most designs: weight unchanged
Flipper (includes weaponed flipper): -10% if arena with OOTA/pits, +20% if closed arena
HS, SnS, Popup, Juggler: -10% weight
Crawler : -25%

for Stock
Clamp : +30% (even more fragile than in DSL)
Hammer, Sawbot : +20%
Poker : +15% (uses even more space than in DSL)
Side hammer : +10%
Flipper: No bonus if OOTA arena/arena with pits, if closed arena without pits : +20% (flipper arms are very, very fragile)
Anything else : no change
HS, Popup, Juggler : -10%
Crawler: -20% (more fragile than in DSL)

For hybrids: average out. if it's really a HS with 2 razors attached to make it a so called rammer hybrid, then go with the -10% HS malus.

in case the tournament uses multiple arenas, the flipper bonus is determined only by the arena used in the first 2 rounds.

For numbers: average out to the closest entire number. and if this is accepted i'll gladly do a table of modified weights by bonus and by weightclass because i can see why people will not want to do math to get a weight limit.

tell me what you think about it.

edit: maybe it will be simpler to give numerical bonuses, and one per weightclass, not percentages ?

[helloface]

I like it. It'll cause some variation and not the same boring weapon types time after time.

[cephalopod]

Almost did this for RIP3 or 4 yeah, to a lesser extent. Would be interesting to see in action.

[Naryar]

Alright then...
               AW    BW    LW    MW    CW     HW    SHW      UHW
+30%     173   227    325   520    790    1000   1560     6500
+20%     150   210    300   480    720     960    1440     6000
+15%     144   201    288   460    690     920    1380     5750
+10%     138   193    275   440    660     880    1320     5500
normal    125   175    250   400    600     800    1200     5000
-10%      113   158    225   360    540     720    1080     4500
-20%      100   140    200   320    480     640     960      4000
-25%       94    131    188   300    450     600     900      3750

there, I now wonder if it will be too much of a difference in the higher weight classes ? Although -25% is really only for crawlers, so not that much.

[System32]

Crawlers are really really iffy though.

I'm not saying you might be biased but you might be biased.

[Naryar]

Crawlers are really really iffy though.

I'm not saying you might be biased but you might be biased.

What ? they beat absolutely everything of their weight class except the very occasional HS and the overly rare Dark July type bot.

So they should be nerfed. The most.

Edit : Although I suppose they should have less of a malus on closed arenas... like -15% ?

[Mr. AS]

Juggler : -10%

Well, I'm not going to build any jugglers ever again then. They barely perform up to par with popups to begin with and if this ruleset makes them even worse.

By the way, good luck making % values for bots that fall in the grey area. Is a RAD spam gutripper a HS or a juggler? How about "clamps" that use popup weapons as the flipper? Or how about those 2004-era chained HS that get ripped apart by everything now? Do those fall under the same category as 36+HS, and thus get NERFED even more?

Overall 4/10 would not follow

[Naryar]

Juggler : -10%

Well, I'm not going to build any jugglers ever again then. They barely perform up to par with popups to begin with and if this ruleset makes them even worse.

By the way, good luck making % values for bots that fall in the grey area. Is a RAD spam gutripper a HS or a juggler? How about "clamps" that use popup weapons as the flipper? Or how about those 2004-era chained HS that get ripped apart by everything now? Do those fall under the same category as 36+HS, and thus get NERFED even more?

Overall 4/10 would not follow

i seem to find jugglers equal to popups, mostly because they're gutrippers. jugglers have better control of the opponent and less amp needs compared to popups, popups have a srimech.

Though the bonuses and maluses need to be fixed.

Complex spinners and chained HS definitely would not be in the same category as standard, weapon spam 36HS-style HS.

RAD spam gutripper... to be seen. Maybe considered as a HS/juggler therefore -10% still. But they don't have the "attack and defend everywhere" that hs have, so maybe they should go to 0%.

Hence why i asked for details.

Also what is a clamp with popup weapons ? You mean a weaponed flipper with vastly heavier weapons and therefore a very poor popup ?

[System32]

What ? they beat absolutely everything of their weight class except the very occasional HS and the overly rare Dark July type bot.

That's actually bullsh**, to be honest.

[Naryar]

What ? they beat absolutely everything of their weight class except the very occasional HS and the overly rare Dark July type bot.

That's actually bullsh**, to be honest.

Well, it depends of the arena, so yea, less of a malus on open arenas. On closed arenas my point still stands.

Then again VS should have a malus on open arenas as well.