short and sweet, mechs are more powerful than their dp suggests due to frequency
perm 132 (Optic) VS 800kgs
typhoon l = 2618
2543
2409
2598
2461
2761
2835
2642
3005
2561
2366
mech = 3672
3574
3565
3654
4009
3720
3617
3676
3980
3668
3259
mech (0 frequency) = 1942
2089
2173
2061
1927
1696
1887
1794
1889
2133
1777
typhoon with mech stats 0 freq
2423
2401
2586
2529
2624
2632
2354
2618
2500
2407
burst
typhoon l = 905
931
906
865
905
919
mech = 1559
1376
1552
1585
1537
1746
mech (0 frequency) = 802
810
806
744
827
824
large typhoon
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644415330942976/unknown.png)
mech
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644154285850625/unknown.png)
mech 0 freq
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644303687090176/unknown.png)
large typhoon
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644203892146176/unknown.png)
mech
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644257470185492/unknown.png)
mech 0 freq
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/605644347202994176/unknown.png)
perm 132:
typhoon l = 2618
mech = 3672
mech (0 frequency) = 1942
typhoon with mech stats (0 freq) = 2507
burst:
typhoon l = 905
mech = 1559
mech (0 frequency) = 802
for reference, a mech disk has 685dp (2.06p/2.74c) and a frequency of 2. large typhoons have 700 (1.75p/3.5c) as everyone probably all knows
weapon to weapon, a large mech is usually fairly even with 2 large typhoons, but it will lose to 4 small typhoons and even 4 large beaters with the patch (overfloat + fracture hits). 4 large vs 2 mechs follows the same pattern. this is all assuming your disk doesn't fall off before your teeth (btw the entire outside edge of the mech does damage)
tldr: mechs deal more damage than their dp value suggests
frequency seems to work as a damage multiplier. mechs have a frequency value of 2, and while not close, the difference is very close to a x2 in testing. also note that return damage scored by the target bot's chassis nearly doubled
idk how true the whole 'contact damage thing is, but that really doesn't matter for this test. i suspect there is some validity to it, but it does it in a way that outright multiplies damage. i guess the hypothesis for this would be that the mech is dealing damage twice before the game can output the points pop-up
regardless, dp once again proves itself to being a poor indicator for actual effectiveness. frequency isn't taken into account for DP, and mechs aren't the only weapon with it (imagine if minions had a decent mesh). i suspect that dual minivores will be the best weapon choice in ow4, but that requires further testing
as for tournament limits, i would say a single mech disk is fair for the standard 4 large/6 small meta. dual mechs probably shouldn't be allowed, but a single mech is somewhere in between the overall power gap of 4 large typhoon and 4 smalls depending on the bot type
also also I'm willing to bet that a decent majority of the community unknowingly has the AS balance patch installed, thus rendering all of this non-relevant. ez way to know is to check the description of the default large typhoon.
added the results from a typhoon with mech disks stats (no frequency)
also i tired finding a more realistic piercing/concussion mix for spinners. the current formula is realistically only accurate for burst motors as it assume that concussion in all scenarios needs to be twice that of piercing to deal equal damage. this is technically true on spinners, but to get said results we would need motors far more powerful than dsl currently has, or for all of components to weigh next to nothing.
perm132 w/50kgs vs 800kgs
5 concussion avg 3021
2859
3083
3297
2873
2892
2899
2986
3141
3307
2873
4.3 piercing 3002
2927
3035
2781
2754
3162
3193
3117
3026
3219
2804
-------------------------------------
DP = 116p + 100c
weapon dp relative to one another with said formula (actual stats unchanged):
large typhoon = 553
mech (no freq) = 512
ripping = 508
small typhoon = 474
patched large beater = 311 (no change as no piercing)
again. the actual stats that determine damage are unchanged. the actual ratio in which piercing and concussion are equal will vary based on your motor and spinning mass
this isn't perfectly accurate, and there's far too many variables to condense into a single number, but i'd say it's a more close to realistic estimation of damage potential based on my experiences
also, arbitrarily buffing/nerfing a single weapon is not balancing the meta, all you're doing is creating a power-creep/reverse power-creep situation with the next best weapon taking the spot, or making large amounts of weapons obsolete in the case of buffing. 90% of the weapons in dsl are always going to be useless due to their shape/normals/hitboxes/etc, and there's far too many weapons to create both a varied and balanced meta. using a one size fits all formula also doesn't help alleviate these issues
to give an example, imagine if ra2 was an fps and every single weapon was a gun. most shooters almost always have a meta of what what gun is the best within a range of a few dozen or so. now imagine if there were 100+ guns and all of them were balanced by a single formula for rate of fire, damage, accuracy. does this sound like it would be a very well balanced game to you? (obviously ra2 is not an fps, but it's an example of how balance gets worse when more items are added to the equation)
also also the AS balance patch is beyond terrible
-a 20kg large typhoon has 509 dp and 4k hp
-a 10kg beater has 311 dp, 2500 hp, and no normals
i hope you can see the issue with this
did the microvores
avg = 2315
-------------------
2289
2239
2385
2493
2470
2247
2364
2420
2288
1962
burst - avg = 1180
---------------------------
1097
1250
1046
1234
1528
1152
1026
1051
1194
1226
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/228400876497272832/606423284287930397/unknown.png)
for reference:
perm 132:
typhoon l = 2618
mech = 3672
micro = 2315
37% weaker than a full size
burst:
typhoon l = 905
mech = 1559
micro = 1180
roughly 25% weaker than a full size mech. this almost exactly matches up with the listed dp difference of the large and small mech (510 vs 685)
in the spinner tests, I suspect that the smaller profile results in less damage due to the smaller teeth getting less contact. if the teeth were larger, i'd be willing to bet that there would be a decent damage increase to at least tie with large typhoons (i tried doing minions, and they dealt pathetically low damage for their stats due to their mesh)
so in total, definitely stronger than the 510 dp suggests. 7000hp@35kgs as well