Author Topic: Non GTM RA2 Thread  (Read 1686 times)

Offline Xseal3

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 11:18:05 PM »
that'd be great, a couple things i was wondering looking at the chinese meta evolution you described:

1. how are horizontal spinners doing in this meta ? are tombclones more common or are overheads the majority ?
2. did anyone tried the HUGE style of design yet over in china ? seems like it'd be a even more potent counter to the small, Bite Force like verts, althought i imagine the increase in bigger diameter verticals would be very troublesome for them
3. you mentioned series 3 winner was a swiss-army with a flipper setup, are there others non-spinners that still go far despite the very spinner-heavy environment ?

tombclones did once appeared, but this kind of design was soon unseen in recent events. They tend to turn around when hitting others instead sending each others across the arena and make their tasty wheels and body vulnerable to verticals. The majority of good performance horizontals in our events now are shell spinners with teeth close to the ground or overhead bar spinners with wedges. The champion of series 4 was surprisingly a shell spinner with its typhoon teeth so close to the ground that can sometimes outwedge small wedges meta.

Yes, some people did tried HUGE style design. However they often struggle to move due to the RA2 mechanism.

Till now, a well made flipper could definitely have a place in plenty of spinners. As the champion of our first event is a flipper, and the 3rd place of series 2 is a flipper. Sawbots also have great potential of winning as long as they have good wedges. The recent patch that buffs armor hp might make some difference since non spinners before is too easy to be trashed by mighty spinners.

Offline botbuster

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2019, 02:17:01 AM »
What is the weight limit for the Sportsman class?
I like Robots and IRL Packs (DSL to be precise).

Offline MoonSet416

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 03:48:29 AM »
Just FYI Xseal3 is the host of the Chinese events.

Offline Mystic2000

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2019, 03:55:03 AM »
i wonder how bots like Valkyrie would work
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Offline MoonSet416

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2019, 04:12:21 AM »
IIRC there was an unexplained influx of similar offset undercutters in the second tournament. I don't remember any of them doing too well.

Online Badnik96

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2019, 02:26:15 PM »
ngl i like the way these chinese tournaments operate more than gtm's

Offline MoonSet416

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2019, 08:18:34 AM »
Huh... So I didn't know IRL building was a thing here. Since now I do, I actually have smth to share.

During the first Chinese tournament, there was kind of like an IRL tournament, but separate to the main one. It was different from IRL in that parts clipping into one another was allowed, but the robots must resemble an actual robot that exists. With the focus on mimicking the looks of real robots, some builders put so many tiny parts into their robots that the game would just crash during a match. The Chinese "IRL" was then cancelled due to that reason.

Through competing in the tournaments I realised something: there's a limit to human ability Looking like a real life robot and functioning like a real robot are sometimes very different. Take the example of any spinner robot. The motors in our version is significantly more powerful than the stock ones (which contributes a lot to the spinner meta, but spinner meta itself is realistic, at least in China), and these motors still struggle to match the spinner motors in the real world. With the slow speed comes greater bite depth across the board and single tooth blades become totally unnecessary. Lower speed also decreases gyro effects on spinners, allowing them to be made larger and heavier without affecting the drivability. The bar spinner of Bite Force is usually regarded as on the lighter side of the spectrum, and in our version of the game a 100cm DSL bar + 2 Typhoon teeth would also be considered light. However, even on the largest chassis available in game the 100cm DSL weapon still looks way out of proportion if it was judged by the standards of real life. Instead of resemblance, I personally prefer "functional representation". If a part in game serves the same purpose as a part in real life, then no matter how crazy it looks in game I would still use it.

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2019, 08:33:46 AM »
Huh... So I didn't know IRL building was a thing here. Since now I do, I actually have smth to share.

During the first Chinese tournament, there was kind of like an IRL tournament, but separate to the main one. It was different from IRL in that parts clipping into one another was allowed, but the robots must resemble an actual robot that exists. With the focus on mimicking the looks of real robots, some builders put so many tiny parts into their robots that the game would just crash during a match. The Chinese "IRL" was then cancelled due to that reason.

Through competing in the tournaments I realised something: there's a limit to human ability Looking like a real life robot and functioning like a real robot are sometimes very different. Take the example of any spinner robot. The motors in our version is significantly more powerful than the stock ones (which contributes a lot to the spinner meta, but spinner meta itself is realistic, at least in China), and these motors still struggle to match the spinner motors in the real world. With the slow speed comes greater bite depth across the board and single tooth blades become totally unnecessary. Lower speed also decreases gyro effects on spinners, allowing them to be made larger and heavier without affecting the drivability. The bar spinner of Bite Force is usually regarded as on the lighter side of the spectrum, and in our version of the game a 100cm DSL bar + 2 Typhoon teeth would also be considered light. However, even on the largest chassis available in game the 100cm DSL weapon still looks way out of proportion if it was judged by the standards of real life. Instead of resemblance, I personally prefer "functional representation". If a part in game serves the same purpose as a part in real life, then no matter how crazy it looks in game I would still use it.
On our side, IRL generally focuses more on the "looks like real bots" than "fights like real bots", though there we do attempt to try and cover both bases as best as possible. Our spinners motors for example tend not to be buffed (though there is one tournament that has experimented with increasing their power), so our spinners don't really launch opponents like real spinners do. As you mention in your post, single tooth spinners, which are very common in real robots, don't really work in RA2, but nonetheless our IRL ruleset tends to encourage using fewer teeth rather than more, for the reasons that most real bots tend towards smaller numbers of teeth, and also to try to avoid spinners being totally dominant (Vertical spinners are still by far the strongest bot type in most arenas for us, even with these limits.

I think your ruleset and how you go about your tournaments is really interesting, and I'd very much like to see in more detail how exactly the 'meta' in Chinese tournaments works out. Would it be possible to record the next tournament that happens in your community? I think a lot of people here, me included, would be intrigued to see how it plays out.
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Offline MoonSet416

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2019, 09:13:02 AM »
Interestingly there was one overhead spinner once equipped with a balanced (god knows how he did that) single toothed weapon. IIRC it was described as "unstable and sometimes hitting too hard" and never actually used.

The videos of the second, third and fourth tournament are all there in my hard drive (in low quality), I just have to upload them through my unstable internet connection. Btw what's an upload site that you guys usually use?

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2019, 09:17:45 AM »
Interestingly there was one overhead spinner once equipped with a balanced (god knows how he did that) single toothed weapon. IIRC it was described as "unstable and sometimes hitting too hard" and never actually used.

The videos of the second, third and fourth tournament are all there in my hard drive (in low quality), I just have to upload them through my unstable internet connection. Btw what's an upload site that you guys usually use?
I've built a few single tooth discs myself and yeah they're a real nightmare to balance, you pretty much have to do it by trial and error.

In terms of uploading we normally use YouTube, but as far as I'm aware that may not be available in China. I'd just upload them to any site you're familiar with and post a link here.
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Offline Mystic2000

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2019, 10:21:58 AM »
another issue with single tooth is that sometimes you end up with so much bite your bar almost completely stops dead and you have to get all the way back up to speed, which may be what that builder described as hitting too hard

and yeah like you mentioned, i did notice you seemed to focus more on the fighting and competition aspect than the art and showcase side of things which is more our focus, but it's interesting that game stability was one of the factors, i was wondering with that, are the boosted motors you use causing any instability problems (axles going mad, spinners going completely out of control and spazzing out, havok explosions) ?

i also think the sportsman class idea is really neat and something i'm suprised GTM has barely ever used (the closest being a UK live event style tournament that never actually happened), is it just spinners banned or are there additional restrictions like real life sportsman ?
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Offline MoonSet416

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2019, 10:29:22 AM »
According to Xseal3, when the motors spin up to or above a certain speed, the actual rpm will in game will start to go crazy and fluctuate a lot. If not for this we would probably have gone crazy with the motors lol. I'm someone who puts a 5kg disc on a featherweight so more weapon is more better.

Offline Xseal3

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2019, 12:34:08 PM »
Interestingly there was one overhead spinner once equipped with a balanced (god knows how he did that) single toothed weapon. IIRC it was described as "unstable and sometimes hitting too hard" and never actually used.

The videos of the second, third and fourth tournament are all there in my hard drive (in low quality), I just have to upload them through my unstable internet connection. Btw what's an upload site that you guys usually use?

I'm the one made that single tooth spinner...I did my best to make it balance, but it was still a little bit shaky. In functional aspect, single tooth weapons won't provide noticeable advantage over double teeth one because the rpm is not high enough(compare to real life). Single tooth weapons also have issue about the tooth durability since one tooth needs to take all the damage. Single tooth weapons usually tend to be heavier than double teeth one at same length because the mass on the longer side contribute much more moi than the shorter side.
At last I decided to not use the single tooth bar at the championship but used the symmetrical bar. The single tooth bar looks much cooler though.
btw single tooth weapons start to make noticeable difference when weapon rpm is more than about 5000, but in RA2 we tend to make weapon motors top speed under 1800 rpm or they sometimes go crazy.

Offline Xseal3

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2019, 01:12:18 PM »
another issue with single tooth is that sometimes you end up with so much bite your bar almost completely stops dead and you have to get all the way back up to speed, which may be what that builder described as hitting too hard

and yeah like you mentioned, i did notice you seemed to focus more on the fighting and competition aspect than the art and showcase side of things which is more our focus, but it's interesting that game stability was one of the factors, i was wondering with that, are the boosted motors you use causing any instability problems (axles going mad, spinners going completely out of control and spazzing out, havok explosions) ?

i also think the sportsman class idea is really neat and something i'm suprised GTM has barely ever used (the closest being a UK live event style tournament that never actually happened), is it just spinners banned or are there additional restrictions like real life sportsman ?

There are people who can make really good replica of real bots in our community, but only for showcases. The instability issue I think are mostly caused by overlapping components, and replicas usually have plenty of them. In our ruleset you are still required to make your bots look like one in real world. for example, bulkheads to hold vertical spinners are required although they don't have functional use in ra2. Robots also needs to be real world functionable. For example, spinning blades that cut through its own wheels are not allowed.

In our later patches some motors are actually nerfed for better game stability, and the version we use now are unlikely to crash because of overpowered motors.

In our sportsman class,
High damage weapons like typhoon tooth are banned.(while hammerbot can have 1 on their weapon).
High power spin motors like perm or etek are banned.
You can have sections that touch the ground width up to 40cm.
The rest of outer sides of the robot shall not touch the ground.
Robots somehow are too destructive might be banned.
Robots that purely for fun but unlikely to win over others might be allowed to use banned components.

Offline Mystic2000

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2019, 01:48:07 PM »
so it's essentially competitive IRL in how it works, you can tryhard all you like but you have the realism restrictions of real life, interesting

i can imagine a bunch of people enter some pretty crazy designs in sportsman lol, what's the most odd thing you've seen in this class ?

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Offline Mr. AS

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2019, 01:59:52 AM »
so it's essentially competitive IRL in how it works, you can tryhard all you like but you have the realism restrictions of real life, interesting
lra2 was right all along, you only had to listen
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Offline Billy5545

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2019, 06:23:18 AM »
New ep of Robottal Wars:

Offline Billy5545

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Re: Non GTM RA2 Thread
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2019, 10:40:55 PM »
Reviving this. So, showing vids of first ep of tourneys

Squadrents (Parsec):
RA2: PLE (Parsec):
RoboDestruction (Stock IRL):
Roboforce Extreme (DSL IRL):
(Ep 9) Robotic World League:

Also splashes for a tourney called Arena Champions, made by a non GTM RA2 user called IdiotBrickDoctor
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Also, there's a Discord server called Design Sharing Hub, for sharing designs of any bots
https://discord.gg/jPx6Ue