Author Topic: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2  (Read 9788 times)

Offline Reier

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IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« on: January 05, 2017, 04:20:00 PM »
I'm busting out the decent grammar so you know this is a big deal. I've been thinking about this for a long time now.

    Havok. Ro7 (formerly). AGOD. These all suck. But there is one tragedy of ra2 that is more tragic than all the others.
Online play. Without it, half of the game is locked. I'm not exaggerating.
I feel like most people don't even drive their robots anymore, and I understand why. AI tournaments are the only way we can really compete, so why bother testing them in a way that is irrelevant? This, i think, is the most unfortunate part of the game currently. Driving your own robot is just as much of a part of the game as building it, and is very undervalued because people aren't used to it. It's almost a lost art. I really think if online ra2 is fixed that it could almost single-handedly extend the life of the game for years. Hear me out.

    Being able to drive your robot opens up new worlds in RA2 that I think most people don't even consider. Suddenly useless bot types become viable. Rammers and Pushers can be incredibly lethal in the hands of a good driver who knows how and when to pin and uses arena hazards to his advantage (yes, hazards). Powerful bot types become weaker in the absence of ai. HS and SnS are easily avoided - simply wait them out until an ideal opportunity, ai has to move forward but you don't! Spikeballs against an opponent who does not brainlessly rush to them are not scary at all. Wedges would becomes considerably less common when the human ability to flank opponents becomes the norm.
    Bigger still, new building techniques on a scale never seen before would be opened up. No longer do you have to only protect the front of your robot. You can add a separate system on the back and switch between them at will. Adaptive weapon systems using servos and linear actuators (think Seism 13's wedges, or this) can be just as viable if there is a human controlling them. Mecanum-like drive systems allowing your robot to strafe are easily driven by a human with a bit of practice. it's mind blowing how much the game opens up creatively once you remove ai limitations.
    Another huge deal though is the variety in arenas that would be available to use (or create). This has huge implications on all the other points above. Fight in the octagon or the compressor or heck even the obstacle course arenas with no trouble. Certain bot types that are normally obscenely powerful become weak in the right arena. SnS ruining your day? Pit him. Push him under a hammer! Use your brain! People don't even think of these things since they haven't had to for so long. New crazy arenas that take immense driving skill that ai would destroy themselves on can become crazy fun to play on and watch. One person can build and hand the robot off to a person who is amazing at driving! There are so many possibilities.
    However possibly the biggest benefit though is it would make tournaments a total blast. Like, seriously. Seeing a robot driven by people as opposed to AIed is night and day. You can use flair! You can use strategy. you can make fun of sage cause he cant drive And most of all, it is much more fun to watch. I guarantee tournaments will take off if you can see videos of human opponents. Half the people don't even watch tournament videos anymore and just read synopses. Online play will add some much needed entertainment value.

This is just the beginning.
There are so many possibilities that most people don't even think of because they are so used to building around ai limitations and thinking in that limited mindset.


I beg, I IMPLORE the community to try and find a fix for this. This is the BIGGEST issue in RA2 right now bar none.
We used to play RA2 on 'lan' severs hosted on Hamachi, which was unplayable. We currently use Gameranger, which is slightly less unplayable, but still abysmal (ie 10+ second lag at times). I know for a fact that RA2 works like a dream when played on an actual local network. There is no input delay whatsoever. I've tried with college buddies and its the most fun I think i've ever had in the game. THIS is how RA2 was meant to be played. I'm trying to find solutions but I'm not the best at netcode or modding and am only one man. But I guarantee that if online becomes a reality, this will save the game.

Is it possible to host a dedicated ra2 server? From what I've heard when gamespy was up the lag was not necessarily bad, but i'm not sure if it's possible to host a personal one at all, let alone with good results. That might be a good first step if anyone has a server they would be willing to test with. apanx and i messed around a little with another client but its a bit too early to see how good this is.

Please discuss, we need to find some sort of fix for this. Any ideas would help.







Possible solutions / Issues

Hamachi / incredible latency issues for the non-host, upwards of 10+ seconds of lag.
Gameranger / similar to hamachi, though generally slightly better performance. still bad.

Alternative such as Tunngle? / TBD
Dedicated server / TBD, may not be possible
Gaminganywhere VM client /apanx is testing this a bit and seems to have a bit of luck so far, still seems to be fairly laggy without a way to mess with RA2 coding
NVIDIA Gamestream (thanks Mattiator) / Requires both parties to have NVIDIA cards, and both parties to have a copy of the robot. other issues TBD, but seems to currently be the most promising option
Parsec Gaming / client similar to NVIDIA Gamestream, but without the NVIDIA card requirement. Initial testing shows promise.



bring up any ideas and I'll add useful ones to this post. And please, just because the possible solutions may have issues doesn't mean it's out of the park. please test on them if you can. Anything helps.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 01:00:59 PM by Reier »

Offline TheRoboteer

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2017, 04:26:15 PM »
Opened this expecting another sh**post but you raise a great point. If this game had actual, functioning online play I could see myself playing it pretty much every day, and, like you said, it would make previously useless classes of bot viable and encourage innovation in the bot building scene.
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Offline playzooki

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2017, 04:33:02 PM »
100% this, even on gameranger ra2 online is much more fun than ai tournaments

Offline Mecha

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
I support this idea, I'd love to watch/be a part of a tournament where the builders drive their own creations, It'd also be fun to notice the different driving styles of different members.
Also, no more "YOU AI'D RONG". I'm kinda tired of getting screwed over by dumbass AI.
So, good post. Title is kinda dramatic, though.

Offline Baconus_Yum

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2017, 04:36:24 PM »
I would have to agree. Members that have been here for many years are just leaving. The AI is stupid. If real drivers could really drive the robots, you can have great tournaments with actual twists.
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Offline Reier

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2017, 04:38:59 PM »
I support this idea, I'd love to watch/be a part of a tournament where the builders drive their own creations, It'd also be fun to notice the different driving styles of different members.
Also, no more "YOU AI'D RONG", I'm kinda tired of getting screwed over by dumbass AI
So, good post. Title is kinda dramatic, though.

the title is a bit clickbaitey but i believe it completely. I guarantee this will open up so many possibilities if it happens.

just don't know how to make it a reality. any suggestions at all would be very welcome. I'm particularly interested if it's possible to host a dedicated ra2 sever for starters

Opened this expecting another sh**post but you raise a great point. If this game had actual, functioning online play I could see myself playing it pretty much every day, and, like you said, it would make previously useless classes of bot viable and encourage innovation in the bot building scene.
that's the thing, it would add a whole other facet to the game which is basically dead.
also i dont sh**post

Offline F1Krazy

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2017, 04:47:02 PM »
Oh man I would love to see this happen. Since I still haven't learned to AI yet, I test all my robots through manual driving, and I dare say I'm fairly good at it.

It would be very interesting to see how the metagame would change, going from AI battles to human battles. One thing I can think of that I don't think anyone's mentioned yet is attack timing: the AI will just fire an axe or a flipper willy-nilly, whereas a human can time the blows for maximum impact, and also gauge how much battery/gas they have left and adapt their tactics. So you could definitely have more strategic battles in that way. There's also the matter of melee battles: you can decide which opponents to take on and which to avoid rather than the AI driving around attacking things at random. Arena hazards would come into play more, pushing power would come into play more... it would definitely be fun to do, and fun to watch.

Sadly, I have no idea how to netcode.
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Offline Reier

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2017, 04:58:13 PM »
just makes me sad since i KNOW how awesome ra2 can be. i've played it locally and its lag free and a thousand times better than ai matches. i just don't know what a good solution would be since hamachi and gameranger are so trash.

obviously latency is an issue anywhere but its unplayable in ra2 with those clients.

Offline Philippa

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2017, 05:07:01 PM »
Hasn't this thread already been and gone a bunch of times? I agree entirely (because I want Wipeout or some other obstacle course kinda sh** type tournament) but I mean, wouldn't we have a solution by now?

Offline Reier

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2017, 05:10:02 PM »
Hasn't this thread already been and gone a bunch of times? I agree entirely (because I want Wipeout or some other obstacle course kinda sh** type tournament) but I mean, wouldn't we have a solution by now?
not really. first off, people don't know just what they are missing by ditching ai limitations, and that's what my OP was about.
the tough part though is a solution to this. Heck, just open to anything at this point. apanx and I mess around a bit but didn't have a lot of success. Serge and he and are two of the more tech-y people on this forum and have a higher chance of success than I do, but I'm still trying to find solutions. I'm just trying to make the issue known so we can hopefully finally flippin fix this thing and actually play the game for real.



post ideas and I may add them to the OP if that helps clarity

Offline Badnik96

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2017, 05:51:24 PM »
this is why i play gmod


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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2017, 06:11:52 PM »
Playing with myself, forever alone

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Offline Reier

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2017, 06:36:52 PM »
dude amazing!
is there a way to try it with larger distances and see how good that works?

keep us updated man, this is very nice indeed

Offline Sage

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2017, 09:50:58 PM »
tfw apanx comes back and single-handedly saves RA2
You got my vote for RA2 Wizard. Always and forever.

Offline Dreamcast

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2017, 10:04:02 PM »
But if we do this, Clickbeetle would have to call it the Bot Battle for Eminent Operated Supremacy. BBEOS?
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Offline Reier

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2017, 10:05:47 PM »
we appreciate anything apanx can come up with but he is also just one man... i mean don't let that stop anyone else from trying to come up with solutions as well

Offline Tails. inc

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 07:27:38 AM »
Tournaments hosted and played by humans.. count me in!! just how many batlles went the other way cuz of poor AI?!
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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2017, 08:46:43 AM »
Instead of RA3, it would have been better for the the developers just to have given us RA2 multiplayer xD

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2017, 09:14:48 AM »

Offline Tails. inc

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Re: IMPORTANT: this will save RA2
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2017, 08:22:44 AM »
You forgot Evolve
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